USAGOLD Gold Discussion Forum Archive

1-800-869-5115
We welcome your inquiry.

USAGOLD Menu BAR

Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...

(Discussion Forum Hall of Fame)

(The Gold Trail)

("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)

The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

FORUM ARCHIVES

Select date of the archive you wish to view

Month Day Year
Archives date back to September 22, 1998

WELCOME TO THE ARCHIVES!

(View Today's Discussion) (View Previous Day's Discussion) (View Next Day's Discussion)

ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/16/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Leland (05/16/00; 23:54:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 30704)
Amazing!
http://www.coinfacts.com/SilverDollars/morgan_dollars/1879_morgan_dollars/1879cc_morgan_silver_dollar.htm
Anyone sharing my elation? Lookatthat auction price!!

Strad Master (05/16/00; 23:42:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 30703)
ss of nep, $5 Indian, ed al
http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/antiholo/protocol.html
I know I promised not to continue this thread but I thought it would be informative to share the above link I just found with any fair-minded person wishing to put to rest once and for all the claptrap known as the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion". The essay is written by a Canadian Christian (which I only point out for ss of nep's benefit) and it clearly outlines the history of that silly document. BTW, ss, there they do use the word "forgery" - but for obvious reasons.

elevator guy (05/16/00; 23:21:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 30702)
Bill Murphy's latest Midas is a real shocker! Very Exciting!
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/459?
Well, its not like we didn't all know some of this, or suspect it, being so enlightened as we are...

But to see the truth fit together like little pieces of a jig saw puzzle...

Seeing JP Morgan go from 18B to 38B in just six months of 99, well its so dirty that its.. its..., its like watching the scum float to the top of the pond, after the sewer main breaks...

I mean, the reality of what is going on is surfacing, and it looks VERY ugly..

Journeyman (05/16/00; 23:00:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 30701)
_CENTRAL_ planning @gidsek msg#: 30699, ALL
gidsek msg#: 30699
Journeyman ... "Planning"

"On the first or second page I came across a statement something to the effect that Communist
economies are planned and Capitalist ones are not.
With that I put down the book, knowing that what followed wasn't going to be of much value." -gidsek msg#: 30699

Hard for me to speak of the value of that author's statement -- I think Mises was talking of _central_ planners, a la the Soviet Union, etc. -J.

"I have acquaintances who own a couple of retail stores amd together they "plan" a small portion of
the nations' economy, just over $1,000,000 worth of it." -gidsek msg#: 30699

I think what Mises is saying (if I may be so bold) is that in a centrally planned economy, your friend planning his $1,000,000 part of the economy wouldn't be allowed -- the central planners would dictate instead. -J.

"In point of fact Capitalist economies are "planned" in the extreme, by anyone who has earned the
right to participate and do so." -gidsek msg#: 30699

Indeed. And this is majorly different from "centrally planned." The major difference is that if someone like your friend plans in ways that don't satisfy their customers, they either change their plan or go out of business. This forces adaptation to what people want, rather than forcing people to adapt to what central planners want.

However, I'm not an advocate of capitalism -- that very name confesses the rules are skewed to favor those who have money over those who don't. I prefer free markets (instead of capitalism) where the rules are truly neutral.

Regards,
Journeyman

TheStranger (05/16/00; 22:52:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 30700)
ET and Al
Another difference between now and the 70s, which comes to mind in a different context, is that the current period was preceded by a brush with dollar deflation (in 1998). Significantly, this was the only time deflation ever presented a genuine risk to the dollar in most of our lifetimes, (that is if most of us are younger than 68).

I bring this up now because, barely 18 months after this latest deflationary episode, the dollar has pulled a complete about face. Suddenly it is INFLATION which is on everybody's lips. I would have thought this quick psychological transition from fear of deflation to fear of inflation would be sufficient to reverse an 18-year bear market in gold. Maybe it has. We are, after all, some 10 months and $23 off the lows. But my bet on gold was based upon this premise that what had been priced for the contingency of SOME deflation would soon have to be repriced to reflect the reality of SOME inflation. I never felt anything more than that was necessary. Maybe I was wrong. I don't know.

I think the problem now is a sort of mental inertia which has so far stopped the critical masses from understanding what's happening. Yes, I read about all the skullduggery that apparently takes place, and I believe a lot of it, too. But, once the reality of inflation starts to sink in, I don't think any amount of clever maneuvering will stop public demand from overpowering the forces against us. After all, haven't we seen all this before? Anyway, here's to the both of you. Here's to all of us. Here's to gold, and here's to a brighter tomorrow.

God knows we're ready.

gidsek (05/16/00; 22:25:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 30699)
Journeyman ... "Planning"
I once picked up a book by an economist named Heilbroner called (I think) "Between Capitalism and Socialism".

On the first or second page I came across a statement something to the effect that Communist economies are planned and Capitalist ones are not.

With that I put down the book, knowing that what followed wasn't going to be of much value.

I have acquaintances who own a couple of retail stores amd together they "plan" a small portion of the nations' economy, just over $1,000,000 worth of it.

In point of fact Capitalist economies are "planned" in the extreme, by anyone who has earned the right to participate and do so.

gidsek

Al Fulchino (05/16/00; 21:53:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 30698)
The Stranger
Sir, thank you for taking on my question.
You write:
"Among the most common mistakes investors make (in my judgement, anyway) is being either too agressive or too conservative with too much of their money."

Al: My life story when it came to investing :) And I had nothing to show for it. In the last few years, I have moderated some.

You go on:
"As you well know, most of the great wealth of the world is made in between these two extremes. For this reason, I do not own coins (too conservative)."

Al: You shocked me on that! But! With that statement, I can see you are not a 'chicken little type'. Not that you are putting coin ownership down. Not at all. But you just do not deep down see any collapse coming. That is a comforting thought that I tend to agree with, however I suspect that I have less trust in my fellow man than you might have. And the coin I hold is because of that.

You go on, "Nor do I speculate in commodity futures or buy microcap goldminers (too aggressive). And I certainly don't try to balance my mistakes by being both too conservative and too aggressive at the same time."

Al: I am strung out with Newmont, Hecla, DROOY, Battle Mountain etc all the way to Vista Gold. Are you laughing? I am. As you can see I still live a bit on the edge. Maybe I need to lose a bit more. On the other hand I have a pretty good deposit of physical and some numismatic coins. I have totally withdrawn from the CNBC stocks, although I am strongly considering Cisco, for its strength in the internets infrastructure.

You again: "Please don't get me wrong about coins. There are numerous VERY GOOD REASONS why people prefer coins. And I am fully aware of how little my gold stocks would be worth if people didn't buy coins. I am just saying that, for the risk/reward profile I seek, a well capitalized, senior miner with little hedging exposure makes the most sense.

As far as real estate is concerned, yes, I believe most U.S. real estate is a good value right now. After two very rough years, real estate investment trusts (REITs) are among the very best performing groups this year. Alas, I don't own any because I think the leverage in gold will be better (if it ever gets off its a--, that is).

But what about making the decision to go ahead and buy that building lot or that commercial building you have been considering? Last summer someone else asked me about this here at the forum. I will respond the same way now that I did then. What is coming is higher inflation and higher interest rates. So, don't procrastinate. But, by the same token, I do not believe we are in for as much inflation as we saw in the 1970s, for example. So, you don't want to overextend, either."

Al: Your moderating comments on the extent of future inflation is good to hear. And it is because I am going into commercial and residential real estate that prompted my query. I wanted to see how stable you see things. And as I see it, you are calling for a moderate and seasonable snow storm. No electricity loss here. Just be wise and wear your winter clothes. You also must have a reasonable expectation that Alan Greenspan has what it takes to keep things from getting out of control.

I am grateful for your comments.

ET (05/16/00; 21:51:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 30697)
Stranger

Hey Stranger - all is well here except we need some rain.

<snip>

"In the 1970s, baby boomers constituted an outsized proportion of the U.S. population. They were in
their family formation years then, borrowing heavily in order to facilitate spending requirements
which far exceeded income. Today, baby boomers still constitute an outsized proportion of the U.S.
population, only now, as a group, they produce more than they consume".

I'm not sure I agree. It seems the boomers are in debt up to their ears if those I know are any example. They justify this because of pension plan gains which they believe offset their indebtedness today. I'll share this with you; I was at the home office a couple of weeks ago and happened to play a round of golf with some of these boomers. Two claimed their portfolios had lost about 40% of their value from the peak while one guy claimed to have lost about 60%. They weren't carrying any margin but seemed to have owned the wrong stocks. To them, the market has crashed. They aren't going out buying any new cars anytime soon. Their consumption has been huge the last few years on borrowed money but is now going to stop unless their portfolios recover. This seems to be a perception phenomenon which will require a huge influx of new credit to rescue.

"Furthermore, in the 1970s, productivity improvements nearly stagnated, while, today, thanks largely
to the proliferation of computer networking, that is not the case".

Well, costs have been lowered but I'm unconvinced productivity has vastly improved. We seem capable of moving things a bit faster but I'm unsure this has actually translated into productivity gains. It might be more the case we can move money faster.

"Finally, monetary policy in the 70s was horribly mismanaged. First you had Arthur Burns
accomodating Richard Nixon's demands for more money. Then you had G. William Miller doing
the same for Jimmy Carter. It was not until Paul Volcker appeared near the end of the decade that
any serious effort was made to contain inflation by smothering it at its source. Volcker's successful
restraint of money supply growth may have caused a nasty recession, but it also succeeded at
stopping the inflation spiral, and, in doing so, taught all future Fed Chairman a lesson about money
that should never be forgotten. If that list includes Alan Greenspan, as I presume it does, then
things should not need to get so far out of hand this time around. We shall watch and see".

Yes - I'm not sure any longer if Fed policy has much effect on money creation, at least in the short run. I suspect we'll see the administration soon start bashing the Fed but at the same time it is these bureaucratic entities that are fueling the inflationary fire.

"As to your remarks about malinvestment, that sort of thing is terribly hard to quantify in my
judgement. Yes, heady times do tend to cause careless decision making. And even though vast
improvements in worldwide communications probably bear a mitigating influence nowadays, I am
sure the current period is no exception. Still, I would expect the overall effect of malinvestment
would be more deflationary than inflationary. Ah...you say, but what about the implications to
monetary policy going forward? Yes, good point. That would be inflationary and is, in fact, what
prompted me to start forecasting the current inflation well over a year ago when the effects of East
Asian malinvestment started bubbling up".

And the correct forecast it has turned out to be. My congrats!

"But, for reasons stated herein, I just don't envision an
inflation of 70's style magnitude".

As you say, we'll see. If this Euro thing proves itself, your forecast could be in trouble, but so far so good. I'm keeping my eye on collection data. We've moved a couple of days farther out on the average and this is after no problems at all the last five years or so. I'll keep you posted.

$5 Indian (05/16/00; 21:34:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 30696)
So Kosher................

If the Democrates stay entrenched in power long then you could have the inflationary collapse because they have a tendency to want to please the masses and attack businesses. If the Republicans become entrenched and we become ruled by banks and multinationals to a severe degree, then expect a deflationary collapse as the politicians please the corporations and decide not to "prime the pump" with cheap money. Former suburbanites singing the Shantytowne Blues on any given Saturday afternoon.
============================================================
OK so the Jews are out to get us, what else is new, (not to diminish from the importance of knowing that truth). But what about the Jews who quote the New Testament casually because they feel "so left out" from all their friends going to Messianic Jewish Protestant Churches. Like my computer friend who can go into the Win95 registry and delete all the junk and clean my system. So some Jews are OK. ;-) And how do we know which ones will marry Christians anyway. That rhymed. Do I love my enemies??? Sure why not. And who knows which ones really feel stupid listening to the rabbi tell them "there is no God because of the holocaust". Sort of takes the wind out of your sails of faith. Bummer, another preacher doesn't believe in God. Must have had a rough time in seminary. Because I believe in Jesus, I gain all the benefits of their heritage with access to the wisdom of their GOD by the Spirit of Truth. When the two prophets of Revelation 11 come back to visit Jerusalem for 3 1/2 years their preaching could galvanize all the world to bitterly hate God and Jesus. All we'll have to do is read the names written on the people's foreheads to see who is pro or con. Tortured, Dragged, tagged, and re-ragged.....can't kill what has already died. The real Jews. Kneel at the cross, your Messiah will meet you.

I don't want to hate Jews because sin brings on stress. They can't muddy my drinking water, I'm farther upstream.

Chris Powell (05/16/00; 21:11:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 30695)
Midas commentary for May 16, 2000
http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/459?
Midas commentary for May 16, 2000:

http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/459?

To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email
and get them immediately so you don't have
to go look for them, send an email to:

gata-subscribe@eGroups.com

Journeyman (05/16/00; 21:11:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 30694)
NWO's fate @ORO, Hi - Hat, ALL

I agree with Oro -- the NWO as we know it is doomed. In
addition to Oro's economic points, much of the NWO planning
was based on old simplistic paradigms which seemed to work
because information control was easy, their taxes weren't
starving people, and their proto-organizations were
relatively small and the effects of their bumbling didn't
effect so many people and weren't so highly visible.

One of the most troublesome (for them) of their out-dated
paradigms will prove to be the old idea, embedded in
advertising, that people are "tabula rasa" (empty slates) to
be "written on" at will. That idea, experssed in early
advertising's format and content for example, was that if
you could get someone to sit down and look at your ads long
enough, they'd accept your message, hook, line, and sinker.
This was replaced with a more realistic idea, first widely
expressed in a book called "Positioning: The Battle For Your
Mind."

Who was the first person to fly the Atlantic solo? Who was
the second? The idea here is that all you can hope to
accomplish with advertising is to keep your name and logo in
people's minds, and even that's very expensive. At the time
the book, now a classic, was written, GM was spending
something like $1500 a minute in advertising just to do
that. Similarly, any "party line" is impossible to maintain
in large groups, hence the dictum of successful political
candidates: "Candidates who run on issues lose elections."
(I'm not making this up -- call a political consultant and
ask.) Does this help explain "our" politicians?

The media monopoly has been disintegrating for more than a
decade -- watch the market share for the formerly great NBC,
CBS, ABC as it declines steadily year after year. Sure
there's some overlap, but, for example, there are major
alternatives to Presidential speeches, etc. - - - and most
people watch the alternatives. And that's BEFORE the
internet.

People aren't as stupid as you'd like to believe from
watching the 6 O'Clock News. Don't make the mistake of
believing that the fact people don't voice their opposition
to you under conditions of implicit intimidation indicates
agreement with you're point of view.

I'm reminded of my Polish friends who explained that in
Poland, if a book was subsidized by the government, that was
a good way to know not to read it. When I asked many of
them separately over the years if they believed all that
communist propaganda I'd been taught so much about in
American government schools, they would say emphatically
"No!" Then I would ask them if they knew anyone who did.
They would think about it a second, then they would say
something like, "Maybe someone who lives in the countryside
and never talks to anyone - - - but I don't know anyone who
believes it." I gradually realized they were all giving me
nearly the same answer. It was erie!

Their experiments at controlling populations by carrots and
sticks in Iraq, Somalia, Bosnia, Iraq (regularly), Haiti,
Kosovo, etc. have been major disasters (they know it even if
they've managed to hide it from you.) You can't change
people permanently by force - - - once they figure you out,
they just go behind your back (where they SHOULD shove a
knife.) The unexpected and powerful anti-WTO demonstrations
should sound the wake-up call to the New World Odor folks
that something's not kosher in Denmark.

Further, can anyone imagine the Arab countries, China, etc.
going for Western "values?" Kadafi wouldn't even allow the
trial of a few of "his" citizens until more than a decade of
sanctions.

Regards,
Journeyman

$5 Indian (05/16/00; 20:59:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 30693)
Don't become an orphan, tell us when yer morphin!
Javaman so glad to have you back. I had morphed from 4Ducat and before that from Quicksilver. Never said anything because of some predictions I made that might have hurt some "tip takers", well I believed them too be OK for the hour after I posted them. This market is totally skitzo-frantic. Woopie so DELL and LCOS are going to lead the charge of the Lite Brigade. Everthing I look at could fall off a cliff or rally 20 points. It's all churning heavily and very skitish. There is no way the equities will survive these rate increases. Tis a mathematical certainty, no matter what we do from here on, gentlemen, Titanic will founder. "Why this ship can't sink." She's made of iron sir I assure you she can and she will. She can take rate increases over the first four bulkheads but not five.

The only prop holding up the dollar is the flight from the Euro and investment flight from Europe. Oil is being played as the "oil card" for the Republicans.

Money has left the Naz for a vacation at uncle DOW's place, well bricks and mortar don't mix with rate increases. Next step is foreign repatriation and a European real estate boom. Slight vacume action forming under all these sideways trending stoof vit da volumz a dying and der flagz a floppin.

Did I say the Asian nations would get together to form an Asian central bank? Well if I did I probably regurgitated it from someone else's post. All credit belongs to the original thinkerers.

TheStranger (05/16/00; 20:30:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 30692)
ET
ET- I am fine. Thanks for asking. How are you?

Because neither of us knows ahead of time what kind of policy decision making will be made in the future, I, like you, can only guess how far the current reinflation will go. But, in response to your remarks, I would make the following points:

In the 1970s, baby boomers constituted an outsized proportion of the U.S. population. They were in their family formation years then, borrowing heavily in order to facilitate spending requirements which far exceeded income. Today, baby boomers still constitute an outsized proportion of the U.S. population, only now, as a group, they produce more than they consume.

Furthermore, in the 1970s, productivity improvements nearly stagnated, while, today, thanks largely to the proliferation of computer networking, that is not the case.

Finally, monetary policy in the 70s was horribly mismanaged. First you had Arthur Burns accomodating Richard Nixon's demands for more money. Then you had G. William Miller doing the same for Jimmy Carter. It was not until Paul Volcker appeared near the end of the decade that any serious effort was made to contain inflation by smothering it at its source. Volcker's successful restraint of money supply growth may have caused a nasty recession, but it also succeeded at stopping the inflation spiral, and, in doing so, taught all future Fed Chairman a lesson about money that should never be forgotten. If that list includes Alan Greenspan, as I presume it does, then things should not need to get so far out of hand this time around. We shall watch and see.

As to your remarks about malinvestment, that sort of thing is terribly hard to quantify in my judgement. Yes, heady times do tend to cause careless decision making. And even though vast improvements in worldwide communications probably bear a mitigating influence nowadays, I am sure the current period is no exception. Still, I would expect the overall effect of malinvestment would be more deflationary than inflationary. Ah...you say, but what about the implications to monetary policy going forward? Yes, good point. That would be inflationary and is, in fact, what prompted me to start forecasting the current inflation well over a year ago when the effects of East Asian malinvestment started bubbling up. But, for reasons stated herein, I just don't envision an inflation of 70's style magnitude.

jinx44 (05/16/00; 20:28:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 30691)
tedw
I disagree with your perception of the ss/oro interchanges. Whoever wrote the protocols, they are scary and have been largely been fulfilled. The fact that they were attributed to jewish writers is incidental to me. Do you really care what nation or political stripe your executioner is? ANYONE who subscribes to or practices that agenda is my enemy. Enough said. All the best.

Journeyman (05/16/00; 20:20:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 30690)
Depressing @JavaMan msg#: 30682, Gandolph & Hobbits

"Journeyman, your msg 30663 is depressing. ...Reminds
me of why I dropped out in the early �70s. It took
me quite a while to get it together afterward." -Javaman

Thanx for reminding me. I've been so immersed in this kind of crap on and off since the late '70s, and especially in the last ten years or so, I almost forgot the crap isn't really "normal," only an artifact of the out-sized governments of modern nation-states - - - and paying attention to their "antics" is indeed depressing. Just remember, they _AREN'T_ us. That makes it less depressing I think.

"On an even more somber note, the ambiguity of J-Man. As Homer would say, "Doh!"" -Javaman

I think I'll get drunk!!

Regards,
J-Dude ;)

Richard640 (05/16/00; 20:00:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 30689)
Why stocks went up today-The effete Fed
From Bill Fleckenstein--(www.siliconinvestor.com)---------I have a somewhat technical description of this that I want to share with readers. It's from an economist that I use, whom I think is quite good, named Carl Pellegrini. When you read Carl's analysis, which describes exactly what's been happening in terms of what the Fed has been doing rather than what it's been saying, you can only reach one conclusion, which is that interest rates are going to go higher until the stock market cracks big time:

"The Fed is raising the Federal Funds rate and the Discount Rate. Does this mean that the Fed is tightening? No! [The Fed is so tight that M2 grew at an 8.9-percent rate in March and an even faster 10.7 in April.] The Fed is not tightening in the sense that the Fed is causing the flow of available funds to be created at a rate slower than the demand for available funds. The Fed talks a lot and does little. M2, at $4.7T, is up 5.7 percent for the 12 months ending March; M3, at $6.6T, is up 8.3 percent for the last 12 months; and Modern Money, at $3.0T, is up 9.8 percent for the last 12 months." (Modern Money, a concept I started measuring when the Euro Dollar market started to become important, is defined as Demand Deposits, Other Checkable Deposits, Money Market Funds, Repurchase Agreements, Eurodollar Deposits, and Sweep Accounts).

"Please do not fall into the mental or emotional trap that current interest rate increases by the Fed will produce a slower inflation/real growth environment. With Modern Money up 9.8 percent over the last 12 months and credit growth well in excess of that figure, current levels of short-term rates have little, if any negative influence on economic decision making. Inventories in the U.S. economy are about $1.16T and inventory profits are running at close to $38B or 3-4 percent. The increase in interest costs means little with an inventory turn over of 4x and inflation profits helping to boost stock prices. Alan Greenspan said in the question and answer period of his last appearance on the Hill that he was going to let demand clear the market, not reduced supply. The Greenspan Fed has little real control over the growth of money outstanding and I'm not sure that they want the control."

ET (05/16/00; 19:51:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 30688)
ted

Hey ted - I'll have to disagree with you concerning the NWO/Jews posts. If there is one way to get to the truth of such stuff it is to debate the merit of all positions. As a lackluster student of history, I do know that many versions of the same events are written. It is up to us to read those versions and arrive at something approaching the truth of the situation as it was then. SS and ORO have attempted to do just that. I'd like to draw my own conclusions and to do so I need to hear the evidence as it is known today. The history of money and who is to control it is indeed fascinating.

I don't think at any time in history there was a shortage of those that would like to dominate all others. As I see it, bankers of any faith seem to be most of the problem followed closely by lawyers. History is replete with examples. It's no wonder as controlling the money and the law pretty much controls it all, eh?

tedw (05/16/00; 19:25:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 30687)
Hall of Shame
http://www.usagold.com

Im not Jewish but post #30638 seems to be anti-semtic with
very little redeeming quality.I nominate it for the hall of shame.

Perhaps the poster should be banned until he wishes to apoologize?

ET (05/16/00; 19:12:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 30686)
Stranger

Hey Stranger - how is everything? You wrote in part:

"But what about making the decision to go ahead and buy that building lot or that commercial
building you have been considering? Last summer someone else asked me about this here at the
forum. I will respond the same way now that I did then. What is coming is higher inflation and
higher interest rates. So, don't procrastinate. But, by the same token, I do not believe we are in for as
much inflation as we saw in the 1970s, for example. So, you don't want to overextend, either".

Agreed we are going to see higher inflation and interest rates but it seems to me the relative level of malinvestment in the world is much greater than in the late 70's, early 80's, therefore we should theoretically see higher rates of inflation than in the period you mention. Why don't you anticipate as high or higher rates? I would expect the US will have to inflate its currency tremendously to monetize what is out there in bad loans.

BTW - take a look at the weekly Eurodollar chart. The market has tacked on 200 basis points in just the last year and is showing no sign of reversing anytime soon. Also you might want to check out the direct reverse correlation in the oil and bond charts. It seems those old bondtraders know a thing or two about how the world turns, eh?

Like you, I'm waiting patiently for gold to get off its tail. It'll happen.

aunuggets (05/16/00; 19:02:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30685)
ss of nep....(#30668)
Those who currently sit on the U.S. throne do not belong there either......(grin)

JavaMan (05/16/00; 18:45:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 30684)
ss of nep...
The weekend before last, I posted that I had sold the bike that day and no longer felt it appropriate to continue "life" as Harley Davidson so I stepped into a telephone booth and transitioned into...JavaMan. The thread ran through the weekend so I didn't think I needed to repost the event. Thanks for asking.

ET (05/16/00; 18:29:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 30683)
TC

Hey TC - I sure appreciate the effort you put into this.

You wrote in part:

"Perhaps this is too idealistic, but it seems to me that under the auspices and tenets of open markets,
each nation need not be self-sufficient, but rather, can capitalize on its unique strengths and
resources in order to effeciently acquire what it lacks through trade with others. Thereby, a nation
may prosper in accordance with its own ability to produce value, either for domestic use or for use in
trade with others. Consequently, there is a practical limit to the value seen externally in the
manufacture of national currency units to the exclusion of, or substitute for, real goods".

Well said. Too bad you weren't around back in the 1880's when German Nationalism got its political start around this very issue of self-sufficiency. You might have had a hand in preventing a couple of major wars.

If you haven't read it you would enjoy Mises' "Omnipotent Government" as it covers this bit of history in Europe and what led to the quests for domination.

JavaMan (05/16/00; 18:22:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 30682)
Journeyman...
Journeyman, your msg 30663 is depressing. Seems like an occasional export of the predations is permitted too if it is determined that a whacking is in order. Reminds me of why I dropped out in the early �70s. It took me quite a while to get it together afterward.

On an even more somber note, the ambiguity of J-Man. As Homer would say, "Doh!"

ss of nep (05/16/00; 18:20:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 30681)
Journeyman (05/16/00; 17:41:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 30675)

Good statement,

although I am Canadian, it works all around.

I must have missed it when Harley D morphed into JavaMan
when was that ?

ss of nep (05/16/00; 18:11:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 30680)
ced_s (05/16/00; 17:44:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 30677)
Maybe we are related somewhere in the distant past.

My father told me today that the family is also in Chicago and Illinos ( sp ) generally.

My grand mother tells of having nothing but onions to feed the kids during the thirties.

One of my great uncles traced the family back to Englw\and, where he apparently found that two were hung as highwaymen,
then proceeded to destry therecord he had collected.

Can't say I could trust a bank vault.

ss

R Powell (05/16/00; 18:07:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 30679)
Daily trading comments
http://www.swiss-financial.com/cotton_market.html
Along with gold, I also follow the cotton market which may see some upward movement with the dry weather predicted for this coming year in much of the cotton growing regions of our country. The government (USDA) bases it's yield per acre estimates for the coming year by simply averaging the last five years. This figure will change as the growing season progresses and, if the predicted drought occurs, these numbers will of course become more bullish. The government also subsidizes exports which offsets the negative effect of the strong dollar which has been hurting the POG in US dollars. What's this got to do with gold?
Not a whole lot but I've found sites like the one given above which detail on a daily basis the floor trading in the pits of the cotton exchange. Some reports give the names of the traders and the names of the clients they are buying or selling for. This information is given for both futures and options and the purpose of this post is to ask if anyone knows of any sites/links where we can find similar reports concerning the gold and silver markets? Wouldn't you like to know Who is buying, who is selling and how much and for what months? I know physical in hand negates the need for this type of information but I can't help but try to increase my knowledge of every aspect of gold and the gold market. Trading is still done by open outcry and perhaps someone knows where a detailed account of each day's trades can be found. Thanks Go GATA!

Journeyman (05/16/00; 17:48:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 30678)
In context: NWO @ss of nep, ORO, ALL

"What those calling themselves planners advocate is not
the substitution of planned action for letting things go.
It is the substitution of the planners own plan for the
plans of his fellow-men. The planner is a potential dictator
who wants to deprive all other people of the power to plan
and act according to their own plans. He aims at the one
thing only: the exclusive absolute pre-eminence of his own
plan." -Ludwig von Mises

Regards, J.

ced_s (05/16/00; 17:44:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 30677)
@SS of Neph
My family moved to Indiana from New York circa 1800, this
forebearer was born in New York. On the same marriage certificate in 1860 the name was spelled both ways. I doubt if I can trace my geneology further than I have. It is always possible we may have a distant kinsman in common, with one staying in the US and the other venturing into the Canadian provinces.
Make no mistake though, my family were poor dirt farmers, and I am proud of that fact. Red necks in the truest sense, hard working and frugal. Life for them was hard, they took care of their neighbors when the need arose, "colloquially" would give them the shirt off their back. Plow fields for the sick and elderly with no thought of recompense, attended church regularly. And just as regularly visit the nearest tavern (probably 12 miles away) on Saturday night for the music, dancing and socialization.
Maybe that's why I preferr to have hard assets tucked away in the bank vault, rather than bubble.com stock or entries on the banks books other than my 401K. Wish I had that farm too.

Take care
Ed Stuart

Gandalf the White (05/16/00; 17:44:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 30676)
Journeyman
You are "J-Dude" to the Hobbits !
<;-)

Journeyman (05/16/00; 17:41:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 30675)
ARE YOU UNPATRIOTIC? @ALL

I know some posters here are uncomfortable when others of us seem to attack the American government. I remember when I felt that way. Perhaps this quote will help things a bit.

"It must never be unpatriotic to support your country
against your government. It must always be unpatriotic
to support your government against your country." -Stephen
T. Byington, from "Lessons From Libertarian Tax Protests"
by Bob Bennett, LP News, Spring 1986

Regards, J.

I just realized I can no longer be J-Man -- it's ambiguous since Harley
became Java Man!!

TheStranger (05/16/00; 17:25:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 30674)
Al Fulchino's Question
Al - you flatter me with your question.

Among the most common mistakes investors make (in my judgement, anyway) is being either too agressive or too conservative with too much of their money. As you well know, most of the great wealth of the world is made in between these two extremes. For this reason, I do not own coins (too conservative). Nor do I speculate in commodity futures or buy microcap goldminers (too aggressive). And I certainly don't try to balance my mistakes by being both too conservative and too aggressive at the same time.

Please don't get me wrong about coins. There are numerous VERY GOOD REASONS why people prefer coins. And I am fully aware of how little my gold stocks would be worth if people didn't buy coins. I am just saying that, for the risk/reward profile I seek, a well capitalized, senior miner with little hedging exposure makes the most sense.

As far as real estate is concerned, yes, I believe most U.S. real estate is a good value right now. After two very rough years, real estate investment trusts (REITs) are among the very best performing groups this year. Alas, I don't own any because I think the leverage in gold will be better (if it ever gets off its a--, that is).

But what about making the decision to go ahead and buy that building lot or that commercial building you have been considering? Last summer someone else asked me about this here at the forum. I will respond the same way now that I did then. What is coming is higher inflation and higher interest rates. So, don't procrastinate. But, by the same token, I do not believe we are in for as much inflation as we saw in the 1970s, for example. So, you don't want to overextend, either.

Thanks for asking me about this, Al. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the subject as well.

SHIFTY (05/16/00; 16:52:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 30673)
PONZI
Nasdaq 3,717.57 + Dow 10,934.57 = 14,652.14 divide by 2 = 7,326.07 Ponzi
UP 118.36 Ponzi points

Leland (05/16/00; 16:32:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 30672)
Quote of the Day...From Bill Fleck
"When a guy like
Warren Buffett stands up and talks about the stock market becoming a
casino, you can be sure that is what it's become, as he chooses his words
very carefully."

ss of nep (05/16/00; 16:27:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 30671)
Strad Master (05/16/00; 16:00:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 30669)
Is it possibly a projection from your own mind?

Those with ears to hear had better listen.

Those with eyes to see had better observe.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 16:21:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 30670)
Strad Master (05/16/00; 16:00:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 30669)

The word is not there,

It is however ONE of the words tipically used in reference to that document.

Maybe you could prove the that document has no validity,

I have seen no such proof,

Lets see now how would one go about proving something wrong when one can't even identify the source ?

On the other hand observation could lead one to beleive in its validity according to transpired histoy .

I drop the topic this is my last response to it.

Strad Master (05/16/00; 16:00:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 30669)
ss of nep
Forgery??????
Before you make comments you ought to firs carefully read what you are commenting on. I suggest you re-read my 12:50:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 30648 post. I never used the word "forgery". I'll buy you a one ounce Vienna Philharmonic if you can find it anywhere in there. Where did you get THAT idea from? Is it possibly a projection from your own mind?

However, I do retract my use of the word "intelligent". Beyond that, (as much as I'd like to) I refuse to get embroiled in a foolish, off-topic debate.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 15:57:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 30668)
Those who currently sit on the British Throne

do not belong there.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 15:47:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 30667)
I responded too rapidly
beesting (05/16/00; 14:20:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30662)
Delete

"
This may then be why

"Pope John XXII declared that Robert I (Robert the
Bruce) was their rightful monarch.(King of Independent Scotland)"

From my previous post

Leland (05/16/00; 15:43:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 30666)
Thanks, Leigh for that "See How Gore, Bush Invest Their Money - Read Carefully"
Perhaps (and we'll never know) it would be a wonderment to
know just how much these people have in off-balance-sheet
assets such as gold bullion. But, we'll never know.

Al Fulchino (05/16/00; 15:25:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30665)
The Stranger
If I were to grade your investment choices, I would assume an "A" would be given to unhedged mining companies. A "B" would be given to physical metal holdings and a "C" to "C-" would be given to the average NYSE holding. I may be assuming to much, so please clarify if you see fit. Yet, I travel this path to ask you how you see real estate holdings in the inflation scenario, whether it be commercial or residential.

TIA

-Al

ss of nep (05/16/00; 15:16:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 30664)
beesting (05/16/00; 14:20:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30662)
Yes, if you desire freedom from any Government in the World stock up on physical Gold now at extremely cheap prices!

I agree.

With Respect to Stuart,

The name can( I have done it ) be traced to the House of David. This may then be why

"Pope John XXII declared that Robert I (Robert the
Bruce) was their rightful monarch.(King of Independent Scotland)"

Also, King James I( Stuart ) ( The King James Version of the Bible ) ( England ), was king of Scotland
before he got the British throne.

Journeyman (05/16/00; 14:33:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 30663)
Discovering government @ORO, HI - HAT, ALL

Since we're looking into the nature of government today, may
I contribute one of my favorite characterizations?

It's internationally agreed that all types of plunder,
mayhem or murder are acceptable for a government, as
long as it limits its predations to its own citizens.
+
Let me see if I can explain this bizarre game in plain
talk.
+
People cordon off a piece of land and arbitrarily
announce that it is henceforth a "sovereign nation."
Ruffians and schemers soon grab the posts of
government, and by the power they vest in themselves
set about plundering the individuals who live there.
This has been going on for thousands of years, until
today the entire earth (other than a portion of the
oceans) is divided among different gangs, who wear
pinstripe suit[s], and run their plunder under the flag
of governments. -Albert Keuls, The Offshore Game, From
John Pugsley's Journal, Private Conversations with the
Money Masters (and thanx to <AFS-List@ivory.lm.com>)

Regards,
Journeyman

beesting (05/16/00; 14:20:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30662)
For Educational Purposes Only! ss of nep Please Read if you have time Sir!
From; A HISTORY of the SCOTTISH CROWN--Part 3
In 1320 the Scottish Earls, Barons and the "community of the realm" sent a letter to Pope John XXII declaring that Robert I (Robert the Bruce) was their rightful monarch.(King of Independent Scotland)
This "Declaration of Arbroath" has become perhaps the most famous document in Scottish history. The Declaration asserted the antiquity of the Scottish people and their monarchy:(excerpt)""...we gather from the deeds and books of the ancients, that among other distinguished nations our own nation,namely of Scots, has been marked by many distinctions.(Please Read the Following Carefully) It journeyed from Greater Scythia (?) by the Tyrrenhien Sea(?) and The Pillars of Hercules(?), and dwelt for a long span of time in Spain among the most savage peoples, but nowhere could it be *SUBJUGATED by any people, however barbarous. From there it came, twelve hundred years after the people of Israel crossed the Red Sea and, having first driven out the Britons and altogether destroyed the Picts(Ancient people of what is now known as Scotland), it acquired, with many victories and untold efforts, the places which it now holds....(Scotland) As the histories of old time bear witness, it has held them FREE of all SERVITUDE ever since. In their Kingdom one hundred and thirteen Kings of their own Royal stock have reigned, the line unbroken by a single foreigner.""( written in 1320)

A few days later, the Pope granted permission for Kings of Scots to be anointed at their coronation. This was a clear acknowledgement that the Pope recognised Scotlands Independence....

David II(King of Scotland) (1329-71) and only surviving son of Robert I(Robert the Bruce) died childless in 1371, his nephew Robert the Steward(Stuart) became King of Scotland!!!

*Subjugated...From Websters:
To bring into servitude : Enslave : To force to submit to control and governance.

Back to the Gold discussion:
Ask yourself this, how could the Scottish people remain independent for such a long time?

Possible answer:
They used their own system of money (Gold and barter) since Antiquity.

Point of post, if you desire freedom from any Government in the World stock up on physical Gold now at extremely cheap prices!
Thank You For Reading....beesting.

Leland (05/16/00; 14:18:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 30661)
Sums it up...
Date: Tue May 16 2000 14:28
Brian W. Pascal (Everything looks good to me. My monitor's upside down......)
ID#263430:

Magician (05/16/00; 14:15:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 30660)
The Privateer
http://www.the-privateer.com/gold6.html
Though I don't have anything to personally contribute today, goldbugs reading the Privateer's weekly commentary today will find the contents especially meaningful.

Mage

TownCrier (05/16/00; 14:04:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 30659)
Republicans Propose Bill to Increase U.S. Oil Output
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=U.S.%20Economy&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_government&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=blk&s=AOSF2IRWOUmVwdWJs
According to Bloomberg, the U.S. currently imports 56% of its oil, and the Energy Department predicts that figure will rise to 65% by 2020. Senate Majority Leader Trent Lott said "There is a dark cloud on America's future. That cloud is that we don't have a national energy policy. Not to have a plan to be less dependent on foreign oil is irresponsible."

Senate Energy Committee Chairman Frank Murkowski of Alaska said, "Imported energy should supplement our energy supply, not supplant our energy supply."

Perhaps this is too idealistic, but it seems to me that under the auspices and tenets of open markets, each nation need not be self-sufficient, but rather, can capitalize on its unique strengths and resources in order to effeciently acquire what it lacks through trade with others. Thereby, a nation may prosper in accordance with its own ability to produce value, either for domestic use or for use in trade with others. Consequently, there is a practical limit to the value seen externally in the manufacture of national currency units to the exclusion of, or substitute for, real goods.

DAYOOPER (05/16/00; 13:49:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30658)
Twice Discipled
Concerning your posts yesterday and the responses to it... Although I respect the opinion of Journeyman and others on most subjects, I feel they don't understand everything about the argument you are presenting to the IRS. I have been through the whole process from start to finish with the non-resident alien defense but don't believe it needs to be discussed in this forum. If you would like me to give you first hand information concerning this matter, you can e-mail me at johnncan@hotmail. It is a noble fight but you and your wife are treading on dangerous ground.

dayooper

TownCrier (05/16/00; 13:30:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 30657)
Bundesbank President Ernst Welteke sees no concerted euro intervention
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/000516/l16196816.html
Also said that the ECB may have to raise rates if the U.S. ups rates by the full percentage point...as is currently being called for by the OECD in order to keep U.S. price inflation at bay.

Welteke said the level of the euro was unjustifiable and that "The trend turnaround must now come at some time."

Elsewhere, the IMF has indicated that the euro is fundamentally poised to appreciate more than 30% against the dollar.

beesting (05/16/00; 13:20:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30656)
Test
Test

ss of nep (05/16/00; 13:19:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 30655)
I will not say more than this.
ORO (05/16/00; 11:51:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 30642)
oro - Let's leave this alone and talk of our gold, the economy, the NWO as it manifests, etc.

I at this time DROP it, with this statement

I would much rather know the origin of and what to expect from those that originally wrote the play

Gold - get more.

Leigh (05/16/00; 13:18:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 30654)
See How Gore, Bush Invest Their Money - Read Carefully
http://worldnetdaily.com
...Interestingly, the lion's share of Bush's known portfolio assets are U.S. Treasury bonds and notes, as well as money-market accounts. These assets total in the millions of dollars, FEC records show.

In arguing for his Social Security reform plan, Bush pointed out that the stock market over the long term has returned an average of 6 percent a year, while Social Security funds, which are invested in Treasuries, earn an anemic 2 percent.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 13:08:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 30653)
Strad Master (05/16/00; 12:50:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 30648)
It was proven long ago that the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a fraud.

If it was a forgery

then what is it a forgery of ?

Why was it that Henry Ford Sr. wrote a book about it
and his business nearlt destroted ?

"That supposedly intelligent people still read and believe it is tragic."

Response - Everything written there is just too coincidental to way way things in the world are today.

TownCrier (05/16/00; 13:07:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 30652)
Russia's Sberbank to buy 25 tonnes gold in 2000
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/000516/l16376989.html
Russia's biggest bank plans to increase purchases from domestic gold producers by 25 percent over last year's amount. Russia's central bank can in turn acquire gold through the Sberbank.

Alla Alyoshkina, the bank's first deputy chief executive, said "Only when the central bank declines to buy gold from us we turn to the West."

Farfel (05/16/00; 12:59:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 30651)
Fed Desperation...it's Worse than it Seems.
As I predicted the market is celebrating the Fed rate hike.

HOWEVER, it is important to note several things:

The developing inflation is FAR WORSE than the Fed is indicating. That is because this particular Fed is without doubt the most disingenuous manipulative Fed to arrive on the American scene. The stock bubble this Fed engendered is the launching pad for enormous amounts of domestic purchasing power and the only way to stifle it is to send the market a message that it is NOT expecting. For example, today, Greenspan should have raised rates ONE PERCENT if he really wanted to get the intended effect of reducing aggregate demand.

Furthermore, investors made far too much money these past several years to let a mere .5% rate increase dampen their enthusiasm. Many still have ample surplus funds to continue heavy spending sprees. There will be more rate increases until reality sets in.

How long will the current market celebration last? That's hard to say but there is still tons more Nasdaq lockup stock to be sold into the market this month.

The next critical date is MONDAY, with another approximately $40 billion dollars of expiring lockup stock hitting the market. Without some kind of "event" designed to prop up the Nasdaq, I think we finally have the conditions for a true market debacle.

So even if this celebration lasts until Friday, I would consider short positions at the end of Friday in key Nasdaq stocks.

As for gold, I think savvy market participants know that inflation is far from solved with this latest rate hike and that the US currency will come under assault at some point.
When that happens, gold should fly but don't ask me exact timing. Furthermore, the continued exposure of the massive gold loan situation with the bullion banks remains a powder keg with potential to explode gold into the stratosphere.

The bullion banks are getting it now from both ends: gold loans that cannot be covered, only rolled forward...and jumping interest rates. SELL BANKS and TECHS at the next market top.

Thanks

F*

TownCrier (05/16/00; 12:59:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 30650)
For those having a hard time relating to the actions of the FOMC,
this may provide a more visceral impact...

As a result of the latest rate hike, major U.S. banks have immediately raised their prime lending rate to 9.50 percent.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 12:57:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 30649)
TheStranger (05/16/00; 12:04:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 30643)
It is not off topic
The topic started at

ORO (05/09/00; 19:43:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 30207)

.-.-.-

It is about Freedom, Gold, the NWO and whether or not your gold will do you any good.

I strongly suspected you have not read the information

Strad Master (05/16/00; 12:50:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 30648)
A Jewish Joke
I haven't had a chance to read all the preposterous (off-topic I might add. MK please take note.) stuff posted today by "ss of nep" about Jews and their supposed power but it reminds me of a very old joke:

During the early days of the Nazi regime in Germany, a Jewish man is sitting in a cafe, sipping coffee and reading a Nazi newspaper. Issac comes over and seeing the paper exclaims, "Jacob, how can you read that scurrilous trash? That newspaper is all anti-Semitic garbage! Are you trying to punish yourself?" Not at all, Jacob responds, "I really enjoy reading this paper." "Have you gone crazy?" Issac asked, incredulously, "After all the attacks that rag has launched against us, how can you even pick it up in your hands?" "Let me explain it to you," Jacob replies. "When I read one of our Jewish dailies what do I read about? Here, vandalism against a Jewish Synagogue. There, a bomb has been placed near a Jewish home. Always, someone is calling for Jews to be thrown out of the country or worse. Right? But what do I see here? It is a pleasure to read that the Jews own all the banks, they control the newspapers, that they are all-powerful doctors and lawyers, and that a secret "Zionist" Cabal is getting ready to take over the world government!"

It was proven long ago that the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a fraud. That supposedly intelligent people still read and believe it is tragic.

Voyager (05/16/00; 12:49:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 30647)
From Bill Murphy / GATA

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
SIGHTINGS
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Continuing Gold
Market Manipulation
By Bill Murphy
Chairman, Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com
From Rayelan Allan <rayelan@aol.com
Publisher - Rumor Mill News
5-15-00

Q. Little Bear is in the 'doghouse'. Which table do you think he'd be under ? A. Gold, of course. But he is hopeful.

The Enveloping Horn Will Advance Under The Cover of Darkness

First Alert: Australia

Many battles have been won throughout history using the element of surprise. As long time www.LeMetropoleCafe.com members know, the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee has employed the "Enveloping Horn" battle tactic of the great South African Zulu Chieftain warrior, SHAKA!

Tonight, the allied "pro gold" forces will be on the move and will strike at the very heart of our adversaries, those malign "axis" forces that have been manipulating the gold market and not allowing it to rise in price no matter how much wage and commodity prices accelerate in the United States and around the world, and regardless of the fact that the natural supply/demand gold deficit exceeds1500 tonnes per year.

Tomorrow, our center spread, full page open letter to the U.S. Senate and House banking committee members will appear in Roll Call, the most widely read newspaper of the Washington political elite. It is a 4 color open letter addressed to all of these banking members that explains to them the reason why they were handed a 90 page document. The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee's research strongly suggests it is the machinations of certain government officials and certain bullion banks that have allowed a gold derivative problem to develop that could create an international banking crisis at any time.

This 90 page GATA delegation "Gold Derivative Banking Crisis" document is filled with evidence that supports GATA's case. We only ask the banking committee members in Congress to ask certain questions of the bullion bankers. They can have their answers in weeks and those answers will determine if we are correct or not. No big deal. These same banks report their consumer loan books, their mortgage loan books and their corporate loan books. They brag about the growth of these loans. Yet, they say nothing about their gold loan books or the growth of their gold loans. That is what Frank Veneroso explained to the politicians and economists that the GATA delegation met with in Washington.

All of the Senate and House banking committee members are mentioned in our open letter by name and state. The insinuation is clear. Our delegation has delivered an incendiary document to them with specific questions that they can ask the bullion bankers to find out if we are correct in our assertions. If they do not at least get some answers to those questions, and GATA is correct about a potentially serious international banking crisis, then their future individual political lives should be at peril.

How many times do we have to experience a crisis first and then learn of political committees being formed to investigate who is at fault AFTER that crisis developed? We have suggested to Congress that this time they do their homework BEFORE one develops!

Congressional staffers are underpaid and overworked. That is why we have, and will continue to provide, an exact road map of who to talk to and what to ask, so that they do not get bamboozled by the bullion banking crowd. The GATA delegation and GATA committee are working on these in-depth questions for the banking committees as this commentary is being written to you.

The final 3 paragraphs in our open Roll Call letter to the individually named Senators and House banking committee members reads :

"*Too much gold is being consumed at too cheap a price. Massive amounts of derivatives are being used to suppress the gold price. If this situation is not corrected soon, there will be a gold derivative credit and default crisis of epic proportions that will threaten the solvency of the largest international banks and the world standing of the dollar.

"As you are aware, a 90 page document of our extraordinary findings was personally delivered to your offices last Thursday.

"The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee requests that a full and complete investigation be launched into this matter as soon as possible. The longer the gold price is artificially held down, the bigger the eventual banking crisis." End.

Since I personally dropped off the document at the staff of all of the banking members, they cannot say that they did not receive "evidentiary" notice of our claims. All of Washington will know that the "banking politicos" have been presented with overwhelming evidence of a significant gold derivative problem. If they do not at least make the effort to follow up on our allegations and a crisis does develop down the road, they will have no one to blame but themselves. You can be sure that is the message that their future political opponents will send to all of THEIR CONSTITUENTS if nothing is done.

So, why the announcement that "allied" GATA forces are on the move?

First, the Roll Call open letter seeps through Washington tomorrow morning. We hope to have some sort of presentation of the open letter for you at the Caf� and at the www.GATA.org. web site sometime during the day on Monday. It is a powerful presentation and highlights the burgeoning gold derivative positions of JUST the commercial banks. Hello investment bank Goldman Sachs!

Second, a well known reporter of one of the most respected newspapers in the world, emailed a GATA supporter asking him if I would immediately send a copy of the Roll Call open letter. I have no clue if anything will come out of it. Just in case nothing does, GATA will issue a press release about our recent activities.

Mysteriously third, John Hathaway's brilliant commentary, "J P Morgan To The Rescue," has suddenly disappeared from his own www.tocqueville.com Web site and that of www.gold-eagle.com, at which it was recently posted. The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee has long decried that it is the real big money powers in the United States that are trying to silence the real facts about the gold market and any written commentary of worth that goes against their PROPAGANDA. Is this just one more common sense example that we are right?

I strongly suggest that it is.

The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee has been told by very informed sources that JP Morgan had no idea until Friday that their derivative book was in the public domain and uncovered by GATA's investigator. It is obvious JP Morgan was very upset to learn about this and got to Tocqueville!

This is further evidence that GATA's contentions are correct. Otherwise, JP Morgan would have just ho hummed the news of their $38 billion dollar derivative gold position at the end of last year!

John Hathaway's "piece de resistance" can now only be read at the Dos Passos Table at www. LeMetropoleCafe.com. or the GATA e-group site. I don't care who calls; this insightful commentary will not be politically corrected and taken down from the Caf�, for any reason. Besides, I have already forwarded John's commentary to two banking committee staff members who have acknowledged receipt of his essay. Whoever wants to silence this wonderful commentary is too late. THE ENVELOPING HORN IS WAY AHEAD OF THEM!

Finally, we have all of YOU to help our ARMY advance with unprecedented speed and precision. Roll Call is published on Mondays and Thursdays. That means it will be on the desks of the Congressmen for several days.

If you like what you read in our open letter, we urge each Caf� member and every American who believes in "free markets," to contact their Senator or Representative about the Roll Call open letter. JUST ask them to read it and consider what we have to say! Email is great, but a phone call and, even better, a fax, will do the trick more effectively. That is what our allies in Washington told the GATA delegation this past week.

The GATA delegation was received in Washington with more courtesy and attention than any of us believed possible before we arrived at the Capitol. Some of the most influential men in Congress had read our biographies. We were all stunned. Tomorrow morning, the essence of what our team conveyed to those same members of the United States Congress will be revealed to the Washington political world.

The signatures of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee on the open letter to the banking committee members reads:

Bill Murphy Chairman

Chris Powell Secretary/Treasurer

Ethan B. Stroud Attorney at law, formerly Justice Department, Treasury Department

John R. Feather Attorney at law, formerly legal staff, Federal Reserve Bank

Ethan and John are two of the most highly respected attorneys in Texas and stoutly stand behind what the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee has to say.

Now for the kicker. GATA is not a political organization. We have just as many Democrat supporters as Republicans. The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee's goal is only out to find out the truth about the gold market and expose the reckless manipulation that we believe is flagrantly occurring. Keep that in mind as you proceed from here on.

At the same time, we KNOW we are in a WAR. To win that war one must understand and appreciate certain dynamics. We have no power and little money, much as the Colonists in 1776 must have felt versus the overbearing British tyrants at the time. The manipulators of the gold market have almost ALL the money, power and influence. WE have only the truth, the internet and many of you inspired supporters that are behind our efforts.

That in mind, it might surprise you that on our visit to Washington we learned that Democrat Congressman, Patrick Kennedy, has launched a RICO type of action against one of the most esteemed Republican leaders in Congress, Tom DeLay - Congressman from Texas. From what the GATA delegation could ascertain, this flagrant political assault is one of extreme provocation. WHY?:

Yesterday's Chicago Tribune story might offer a clue:

CARETAKER OF THE HOUSE' HASTERT IS ON A MISSION

By William Neikirk Washington Bureau Chicago Tribune May 13, 2000

WASHINGTON -- In an unexpected blow to Speaker Dennis Hastert's daunting campaign to keep Republicans in charge of the House of Representatives, Rep. Amo Houghton stunned Hastert a little over a month ago with the news he was going to retire.

At 73, Houghton said it was time for him to go.

"I'm the oldest Marine here," he said. "I'm cranky. I forget."

But, he said, the Illinois Republican told him: "You said that if you ever got out, you'd have someone in the wings. You don't. Amo, you can't leave me hanging here. There is too much at stake."

And so Houghton (R-N.Y.) said he reluctantly backed down. "He was right," the congressman said. "If anyone else had said that to me, including [former Speaker] Newt Gingrich, I would not have stayed. He's so decent."

With only a five-seat margin and 23 open seats to defend as the result of other GOP members quitting Congress, Hastert is leaving nothing to chance in a campaign in which a single race could determine which party controls the House next year and whether he keeps his powerful position.

Hastert's job includes talking people like Houghton and Rep. J.C. Watts (R-Okla.) out of retiring, or persuading a former district attorney in Jackson, Miss., Dunne Lampton, to jump into the race against first-term Democratic Rep. Ronnie Shows. It has also included traveling to 100 districts this year and raising nearly $12 million for Republican candidates.

Hastert said that from now until November, he will concentrate on the 40 to 50 truly competitive races.

Since taking control, Hastert has had to endure characterizations such as "the accidental speaker" and "caretaker of the House." Violently disagreeing with depictions of him as weak, Hastert is also on a mission in this race--establishing his own personal legitimacy as Speaker.

Yet in this endeavor, Hastert inspires comparisons with Gingrich, the man who engineered the GOP victory in 1994 and resigned after the 1998 elections narrowed his party's majority. To many Republicans, Hastert's strength is that he is nothing like the fiery visionary Gingrich, who became a favorite target of Democrats.

"Denny doesn't think that fast," said Houghton. "It's an asset. He doesn't dart around like a pea on a hot griddle. He's a thinking politician, not one of those Roman candles."

To Democrats, he is so plain vanilla that they are looking past him and to the holdovers from Gingrich's regime, Majority Leader Dick Armey and Majority Whip Tom DeLay, both Texas Republicans, to brand the party as being out of step with Americans.

Rep. Patrick Kennedy (D-R.I.), the Democrats' chief fund raiser in the House, said Hastert is only in his job at the sufferance of DeLay and Armey, and that DeLay "is still the one running the show." End.

The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee is not about a political agenda. However, we firmly believe that it is the current Democratic administration that has buffaloed the gold price and engendered a life of financial MISERY for so many of us. That will become clear when the Roll Call add is presented to the thinking world. Patrick Kennedy has taken the gloves off, very unnecessarily, to belittle the Republican opposition in an attempt to influence a few influential political races in the coming, close political election. We are only presenting what is evident.

Something is clearly "rotten in the State of Denmark" when it comes to the gold market AND the fund raising activities of the present U.S. administration.

Johnny Chung, who was much apart of the China Gate Scandal and who visited the White House 57 times to support Hillary and Bill Clinton's fund raising activities, responded to my GATA's allegations over the phone this past week with this comment, "that FITS the pattern of the present administration." By the way, Johnny could not have been more classy on the phone.

This is a Democrat talking, Caf� members, not a right wing Republican zealot!

The GATA delegation was advised of this outrageous Kennedy claim during our visit in the Nation's Capitol. The claim is a scurrilous one and at cursory review, baseless. But, with the control of the Nation's legislative agenda for the years to come at stake, all the gloves are off.

PERHAPS, that is why the GATA delegation was so attentively listened to. We received feedback right away that what we wanted to talk about was already making a few rounds in Washington financial circles in a soft spoken way. But, it is all so complicated. Then, out of nowhere, we show up with a 90 page document of credible evidence of serious manipulation of the gold market by present administration personnel and allied bullion banks. If what we have to say has merit, Goldgate could rival Watergate because of its eventual financial and political ramifications.

Long Live the Enveloping Horn

Bill Murphy

GATA Delegation Makes Significant Progress in Washington

On Wednesday at 11:30, the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee consisting of Chris Powell, Reginald Howe, Frank Veneroso, a State Senator and myself met with one of the most powerful politicians in Washington. It was only going to be a 15 minute meeting. It lasted 45 minutes.

At the end of the meeting, we were excused from the room for several minutes. When the people we met with returned, we were told that they were going to try and set up a meeting with another influential politician at 2 o'clock, but that we would have to call at 1:30 to confirm.

We were stunned to learn at 1:30 that this politician had said, "I am aware of the issue," and that he wanted to meet with the GATA delegation. The meeting took place and six members of his staff also attended. What was most remarkable is that this politician left the floor of Congress to attend our hastily arranged, unscheduled meeting.

This politician asked many questions and was very focused on what we had to say. So much so, that he was annoyed when a staff member left to deal with some other pending issue, saying that this was more important. He told us he had read our biographies before coming to the meeting and was a bit taken aback when he was handed the "Gold Derivative Banking Crisis" document to him with his name and state on it.

This knowledgeable politician said that he and his staff would look into our contentions and suggested that we might meet again. After this very intense one hour meeting, he returned to Congress which was in session.

From there, we went on to meet with Dr. John Silvia, the Chief Economist of the Senate Banking Committee. I could tell he had spent some time on our presentation because he had highlighted material that I had sent to him. Frank, Reg and Chris did a terrific job (as they did in all the meetings) explaining what we have learned through our extensive research. That meeting also lasted an hour and Dr. Silvia took copious notes.

Yesterday, I passed out 88 of the documents to the staff of all the Senators and Representatives on the banking committees. They were told to look for an open letter to all of them in Monday's Roll Call.

That was some schlep. For the Senate I went to the Dirksen, Russell and Hart buildings. For the House I went to the Rayburn, Longworth and Cannon buildings. It took me the entire day, but was well worth it. Congressman Lee Terry of Nebraska could not have been nicer and said he would read the document on his way back to his native state this weekend.

I was struck by how different all the buildings were. AND HOW BIG. Most were about 100 yards long and were circular for traffic flow. I made the mistake of buying new shoes for the trip. Now, my feet are all blistered. Big booboo.

My last stop was the Rayburn Building and I smiled as I went by The Gold Room.

It was the opinion of the entire Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee delegation that the trip was far more fruitful than any one of us dreamed possible. However, as we all know, that was just our first salvo. There is much to be done to win the day and we are already planning our next course of action.

When our adversaries realize how far we have come, we know that they will go all out to discredit us. If yesterday's meetings were any indication of making a serious impact on those who count in Washington, the other side has their work cut out for them!

Bill Murphy

William J. Murphy III is the Chairman of the Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee and owner of www.LeMetropoleCafe.com. A graduate of the School of Hotel Administration at Cornell University in 1968, he went to become a starting wide receiver with the Boston Patriots of the American Football League. Mr. Murphy, who now resides in Dallas, Texas, spent much of his business career in the Futures Industry with such firms as Drexel Burnham and Shearson Hayden Stone. Today, he writes gold market commentary for his financial web site that features the precious metals and contrarian economic analysis.

Disclaimer notice: Midas du Metropole does not look like an investment advisor, nor is he one. Any comments about any gold and silver shares by Midas or any of the Cafe members are for your information and entertainment only. They should not be regarded as advice and should be treated like comments passed on at any other Cafe. We are only relating as to what we like for our own accounts.

_____

RMNews, The Uncensored National Rumor http://www.rumormillnews.com THE ONLY RUMOR YOU CAN TRUST

RUMOR MILL NEWS AGENCY P.O. BOX 1784 APTOS, CA 95001 TELFAX 831 462 3949

SIGHTINGS HOMEPAGE
http://www.sightings.com

This Site Served by TheHostPros

ORO (05/16/00; 12:42:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 30646)
Soft landing
I am not sure that a soft landing is possible here. The problem is that the Fed is CAUSING costs to increase without coming close (yet) to the point where people would have a problem in satisfying credit demand. When the point is approached, lending will recede quickly. However, the costs of higher rates will cause an acceleration in prices before this happens.

The Eurodollar spread over treasuries is now 85 BP, and ED rates are at a new high. The spread to Fed Funds is only 45 BP
- which strikes me as low.

TownCrier (05/16/00; 12:40:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 30645)
FOMC Press Release--May 16, 2000
The Federal Open Market Committee voted today to raise its target for the federal funds rate by 50 basis points to 6-1/2 percent. In a related action, the Board of Governors approved a 50 basis point increase in the discount rate to 6 percent.

Increases in demand have remained in excess of even the rapid pace of productivity-driven gains in potential supply, exerting continued pressure on resources. The Committee is concerned that this disparity in the growth of demand and potential supply will continue, which could foster inflationary imbalances that would undermine the economy's outstanding performance.

Against the background of its long-term goals of price stability and sustainable economic growth and of the information already available, the Committee believes the risks are weighted mainly toward conditions that may generate heightened inflation pressures in the foreseeable future.

In taking the discount rate action, the Federal Reserve Board approved requests submitted by the Boards of Directors of the Federal Reserve Banks of Boston, Cleveland, Richmond, and San Francisco. The discount rate is the rate charged depository institutions when they borrow short-term adjustment credit from their district Federal Reserve Banks.

------------
Again: "...the Committee believes the risks are weighted mainly toward conditions that may generate heightened inflation pressures in the foreseeable future," meaning higher pricing pressures as used in this context.

PH in LA (05/16/00; 12:11:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 30644)
Gandalf: Something happening?
This just in from another board:

All Trade on the Coffee,Sugar and Cocoa Exchange: the New York Cotton Exchange: the New York Futures Exchange has been suspended till at least 11:40 EDT. May go on further as all Exchanges Management are in meeting.

Klein & Co. Futures, a MAJOR clearing house Failed to meet min. Financial Standards, According to T. gordon a NYBT spokesman/ Presently only 20 - 40 million in loses admitted, but developing---

UPDATE: All exchanges reopened. (XAU breakout related?)

TheStranger (05/16/00; 12:04:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 30643)
Post #30638
For the record, I, for one, find post #30638 highly offensive and WAY off topic.

ORO (05/16/00; 11:51:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 30642)
ss of nep
You put Rothschild up as representative of Jews in general. You put up unquntified claims of statistical over-representation of Jews in this or that function, but you forget that Jews are not unique in thinking themselves best. Everyone thinks of his group as best. Few come out of their group and escape this trap. My most powerful only god is obviously stronger and more powerful than yours. My people are obviously better than all other people.

Jews are over represented in the medical profession just as they are among most highly educated groups - one because of a separate private educational system the likes of which can also be found for Catholics. Second, there is a heavy Jewish tradition of biblical study and thought as well as a body of literature on legal and commercial traditions that date back 3000 years and are always at the forefront of Jewish intelectualism - even when a distance of three or four generations lies between the former Jew and the tradition he left behind.

As to dreams of world domination, there is little to indicate that is a common goal for Jews. It may have been the goal of a group of powerful bankers that included Jews, who are today probably no more Jewish than Henry Ford was.

The Old Testament includes some passages that clearly make reference to the notion of dominance over enemies and to enslavement of foreigners. Up till last century it was a common practice of Christians Moslems and Brahamin Hindus to do just that. Prisoners of war were sold into slavery until the 19th century.

Let's leave this alone and talk of our gold, the economy, the NWO as it manifests, etc.

TheStranger (05/16/00; 11:49:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 30641)
Inflation Update
There is a front page article by JACOB M. SCHLESINGER and YOCHI J. DREAZEN in today's Wall Street Journal entitled "Producers Start to Raise Prices, Stirring Fear in Inflation Fighters".

For those who don't have access to a Journal, here are the first three paragraphs:

"Even in the New Economy, at least one old rule still
applies: If demand exceeds supply for long enough, sellers will raise prices.

"That's what Johns Manville Corp., a Denver-based maker of building
materials, is doing. Early last year when the company tried to raise prices
on its insulation and roofing products, customers threatened to switch
suppliers. Johns Manville backed down. But this year, the company has
already succeeded in pushing through price increases of as much as 5% on
many products, and it is considering more.

"The same phenomenon is under way in soft drinks, paper, tires and other
big markets. After a decade of price wars and stagnant inflation, producers
are starting to find that they can once again raise prices."

Stranger's Note: To be sure, the article also quotes a few corporate managers who are still afraid to raise their prices. Nonetheless, most are finding the environment more amenable to increases than has been the case in a long time. Some, in fact, who had difficulty contending with the disinflation of the nineties, are welcoming the change.

On another matter, most stock traders who think they are clever in getting their buy orders in ahead of the Fed this week better be ready to sell soon. This is not the last interest rate increase, probably not by a long shot. First, the logic was, there was no threat of inflation, now the popular wisdom is that maybe we do have incipient signs of inflation but the Fed is quickly choking them off with "tight" monetary policy. Don't you believe it. There ain't nothin" tight about monetary policy yet. And anybody who thinks these five interest rate increases have done anything to reduce the amount of money sloshing around the banking system these days has got another thing coming. Come to think of it, isn't it funny how broad-based inflation didn't even begin to appear until months AFTER the Fed supposedly began to tighten? That's because nudging interest rates up and shrinking the money supply are two entirely different things.

Nobody knows how long this "soft-landing" effort is going to continue, nor whether it will even succeed. But the kind of behavior you are seeing in the markets today is a clear sign that the popular psychology is a long way yet from getting things right.

Patience!

Leland (05/16/00; 11:36:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30640)
It's "Market Releases", "Media Manipulation", all that's Happening Today
Oil rally stalls ahead of supply update
Cocoa rallies to 3-week high on possible export limits

By Myra P. Saefong, CBS MarketWatch
Last Update: 1:09 PM ET May 16, 2000
NewsWatch
Latest headlines

NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- Oil futures rose to a new two-month high
early Tuesday after Saudi Arabia and Iran said they saw no need for an
OPEC output hike in June, but the rally stalled by midday ahead of a report
expected to show a rise in inventories.

Victor Yu, a senior energy analyst at Chicago-based
brokerage Refco Inc. attributed the stalled rally to
"profit taking" ahead of this afternoon's supply data,
which is expected to show a climb in last week's
gasoline and crude stocks.

On the New York Mercantile Exchange, June crude
(CL=M0: news, msgs) jumped to an intraday,
two-month high of $30.25, but was last at $29.93, up
only 1 cent from its close a day earlier.

June unleaded gasoline (HU=M0: news, msgs)
added 1.61 cents to 98.40 cents a gallon amid tight
supplies ahead of the summer driving season which
begins Memorial Day weekend.

June heating oil (HO=M0: news, msgs) rose 0.1 cent
to 77.35 cents a gallon. June natural gas (NG=M0:
news, msgs) was up 5.9 cents to $3.455 per million
British thermal units on Nymex.

In the equities market, the Oil Service Index ($OSX:
news, msgs) and the CBOE Oil Index ($OIX: news,
msgs) lost 3.3 percent and fell 0.9 percent,
respectively.

Within the indexes, shares of Transocean Sedco Forex (RIG: news, msgs)
lost 2 7/8 to 51 1/2, while Unocal shares (UCL: news, msgs) lost 1 7/16 to
36 13/16. However, Phillips Petroleum (P: news, msgs) gained 3/4 to 51
7/16 in recent trading.

The comments out of Saudi Arabia and Iran echo the statements made by
oil ministers from Mexico and the United Arab Emirates over the past few
days.

"OPEC leaders are hinting that they have no plan to raise production when
they meet next month," Phil Flynn, a senior energy analyst at Alaron.com
said.

Flynn commented that the cartel will look toward its price band on oil to
"halt this move higher in energy." The price band allows an increase in
production if prices rise above $28 a barrel and a decrease if prices fall
below $22 a barrel.

Key supply report due out after the market closes

The energy markets are also awaiting supply data from the American
Petroleum Institute Tuesday afternoon. The report is expected to reveal
that last week's crude oil supplies rose between 500,000 barrels and 1.5
million barrels, according to a Bridge News survey.

Gasoline supplies are also expected to have risen during the week ended
May 12. Inventories likely climbed 200,000 barrels to 800,000 barrels, the
survey said.

Distillates, which include heating oil and diesel fuel, are expected to be up 1
million to 1.5 million barrels, while refinery production rates likely rose
between 0.3 percent to 0.8 percent from the prior week's 92.5 percent.

The Energy Department will release its own update on U.S. supplies early
Wednesday.

Gold steady as company stocks trade mixed

Gold and silver company stocks were mixed Tuesday, while gold prices held
almost steady on the Commodities Exchange in a second day of quiet,
low-volume trading ahead of the Fed's decision on interest rates.

June gold (GC=M0: news, msgs) rose 20 cents to $276.60 an ounce. July
silver (SI=N0: news, msgs) was up 8.5 cent to $5.155 an ounce on the
Commodity Exchange division of the New York Mercantile Exchange.

In the equities market, the Philadelphia Gold & Silver Stocks Index ($XAU:
news, msgs) was barely changed at 59.62, while the CBOE Gold Index
($GOX: news, msgs) rose 1.3 to 38.91. Shares of Battle Mountain Gold
(BMG: news, msgs) gained 1/16 to 2 3/16, while Coeur D�Alene Mines
(CDE: news, msgs) jumped 1/8 to 2 15/16 in recent trading. Placer Dome
(PDG: news, msgs), however, fell 5/16 to 8 11/16.

Comex gold warehouse stocks, as of late Monday, were flat at 1,915,040
ounces. Silver stocks were down 82,625 to 102,518,649 ounces.

In other metals highlights, July copper (HG=N0: news, msgs) was up 1 cent
to 85.05 cents a pound. The London Metals Exchange said copper supplies
fell 8,725 metric tons to 642,372 as of early Tuesday. Comex stocks fell
1,065 to 76,751 short tons.

June palladium (PA=M0: news, msgs) rose $7.50 to $575 an ounce while
July platinum (PL=N0: news, msgs) was up $1 to $480 an ounce.

Cocoa hits three-week high

Cocoa futures rose Tuesday to its highest level since late April amid
speculation that officials from Africa's Ivory Coast, the commodity's No. 1
producer, will soon announce a plan to limit cocoa exports.

July cocoa (CC=N0: news, msgs) gained $21 to $831 per metric ton on the
Coffee, Sugar and Cocoa Exchange.

Production in the Ivory Coast during 1999 to 2000 is forecasted at over 1.3
million metric tons, according to Bridge News.

Other commodities on the CSCE edged higher on the heels of cocoa's
gains. July sugar (SB=N0: news, msgs) added 0.14 cent to 7.09 cents a
pound and July coffee (KC=N0: news, msgs) was up 1 cent to 94.75 cents
a pound.

The CRB/Bridge
Index (CR=A0:
news, msgs), a
broad-based measure
of commodity futures
markets, rose 0.7
percent to 221.61.

(To Protect Michael, This is to Invoke Fair Use for Educational/Research Purposes Only.)

Gandalf the White (05/16/00; 11:23:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 30639)
Hello --- Wake up call !!
As the old grandfather's clock finished striking ONE in NY the XAU blasted off into the 60+ area. -- After 20 minutes it had risen over a full point !! SOMETHING is in the works and the Hobbits are getting restless. Hurryup Greenie with the announcement. -- FIREWORKS anyone ?
<;-)

ss of nep (05/16/00; 10:39:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 30638)
Oro - "..with embelishments put in by the Tsar's pogrom police.."
http://www.christianbiblestudy.org/OPS/JM/jm0019a.htm
Extract from above link
- - - - - - - - - - - -

It might be well for us at this point to go back to the original purpose of the founders of the Illuminati. One branch of the Rothschild family financed Napoleon during the Napoleonic Wars, while the other branch financed Britain, France and Germany and others opposed to Napoleon's internationalist aims. Immediately following the Napoleonic Wars, the Illuminati assumed that all the nations of Europe, who had been involved, were so destitute and worn out from the long fighting, so heavily in debt, that they would do anything and grab at any solution which would lead them out of their dilemma.

So the Rothschild stooges set up what they called the CONGRESS OF VIENNA, and at that meeting tried to create the first League of Nations. This was their first open attempt at a one-world government and was attempted on the theory that since all the crowned heads of Europe were so deeply indebted to them -the International Jewish bankers, they would either willingly, or unwillingly serve as their prostitutes.

Unfortunately for them, the Czar of Russia saw through their scheme and completely torpedoed it. This so enraged Nathan Rothschild, then head of the family, that he vowed that some day, either he or one of his descendant would wipe out the entire family of ly of the Czar. His descendants finally accomplished this in 1917, when the Czar and his entire family were brutally murdered by Jewish assassins. (So much for enduring hatred.)

Keep in mind that the Illuminati was not set up as a "short range" operation. Normal conspiracies are set up on the basis of achieving their aims during the lifetime of the conspirators. But that of the Illuminati, which went back to 500 B.C., was based on the infinite patience of men who meant to be successful, no matter how many ages it took to accomplish their purpose. Strangely enough, this is the same thinking that permeates world Zionism. The reason being, they are one and the same conspiracy.

As a result of this thinking, the descendants of the Illuminati are dedicated to keeping the plot in operation, until one day they believe they will be successful and in the words of the Jewish Talmud, "every Jew will have 2,000 goyim slaves." The Chief Rabbi in France, in 1859, a Rabbi Reichorn stated this when he said: ''Wars are the Jews harvest for with them we wipe out the Christians and get control of their gold. We have already killed 100 million of them, and the end is not yet." This was before the Civil War and the two great World Wars. Many other Jewish writers confirm this Jewish thinking.

Goldwin Smith, Jewish Professor of Modern History at Oxford University, was quoted in October, 1981 as saying: "We Jews regard our race as superior to all humanity, and look forward, not to its ultimate union with other races but to its triumph over them."

On p.155 of his book, YOU GENTILES, Jewish author Maurice Samuels writes: "We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own." (Or under their control).

On Feb. 17,1950, the Jewish banker Paul Warburg, testifying before the U.S. Senate, contemptuously stated: "We will have a world government whether you like it or not. The only question is whether that government will be achieved by conquest or consent."

WilloTheWarthog (05/16/00; 10:38:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 30637)
Quote from a contact in Panama
I thought you would enjoy this observation that an acquaintance of mine in Panama made last week:

"It is ironic today that the Statue of Liberty, whose words are now merely reminders of the values of a distant past, still stands symbolically in the only place Americans still have freedom: offshore".

ss of nep (05/16/00; 10:31:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 30636)
Oro - are you certain ?
http://www.christianbiblestudy.org/OPS/JM/JM0023A.htm

Another PROTOCOL, which preceded the PROTOCOLS OF THE LEARNED ELDERS OF ZION, and one which the Jews can hardly call a forgery, since it came directly from a Rothschild Journal published in 1889, contained two unusual documents. One of these dated back to January 13, 1489, when Chemar, Jewish Rabbi of Arles, in Provence, France, wrote to the Grand Sanhedrin (the governing body of world Jewry Constantinople, for advice, as to what to do about the threatening posture of the people of Arles against the Jews. Here was the answer, as shown in the Rothschild Journal:

"The advice of the Grand Satraps and Rabbis is as follows:

1 - As to what you say that the King of France obliges you to become Christians . . . do it! . . . but let the law of Moses be kept in your hearts." (UNQ)
Now let me digress here for a moment, to say that many Jews, who have become converts of Christianity! all in this category. Who they are, I am not to judge. But I would imagine they can be exposed by following Christ's admonition: "By their fruits shall ye know them." I do know that many of them are "fakes." Benjamin Freedman, a Jew converted to Catholicism, in his pamphlet FACTS ARE FACTS, says: "For every ounce of so-called good you accomplish by the conversion of a self-styled Jew, at the same time you do a ton of harm in another direction, by diluting the devotion of countless thousands of Christians from their faith. It is well-known, that many counterfeit conversions reveal these conversions have proved to be but the infiltrations of latent traitors with treasonable intentions . . . The souls of millions of Christians who are totally unknown to you, are quite uneasy about the status of the Christian faith today. The minds of countless millions of Christian clergy are troubled by mysterious pressures from above which prevents them from exercising sound judgment in this situation. If the forces being manipulated from inside against the Christian faith can be stopped, then the Christian faith will stand on its feet against all enemies, as firm as the rock of Gibraltar." (UNQ)
2 - ". . . make your sons merchants that little by little they may despoil the Christians of their possessions."
3 - ". . . make your sons doctors and apothecaries, that they may take away Christian lives. (Have you ever bothered to check the names of those who head the Abortion Clinics in America? You might be surprised to find that most of them are Jewish, and that most of the 2-million babies they murder each year are white. Have you ever bothered to look at the names of those engaged in medical scandals, or unsafe medical practices, if you do, I'll guarantee that a vast majority of them will be Jewish. Do you suppose this may have some tie-in with this Protocol?)

4 - ". . . make your sons canons and clerics' in order that they may destroy their churches. (I challenge you to look at what has happened within the Christian church in the past fifty years. I will mention more about this later.)

5 - ". . . arrange that your sons become advocates and lawyers, and see that the mix themselves in the affairs of the State, in order that by putting Christians under your yoke, you may dominate the world and be avenged on them." (Do you know the number of Jewish advisors who have operated within the past eight Administrations? Why is their number so high compared to their population? Why do we find such a large number of Jewish judges and lawyers? Why do so many Jewish lawyers; like William Kuenstler, major in defending the enemies of America? Why do so many Jewish judges rule against Christians in a court of law? Why do so many Jewish judges turn violent criminals loose on some absurd technicality, knowing they will prey on society? Do you suppose there may be some connection here?)

Ask yourself: "Why is it that the Jewish founded and led, American Civil Liberties Union, universally defends radicals and takes a stand against Christian principles?
Listen to this Communist explanation, as It Is taken direct from their textbook PSYCHOPOLITICS, published in 1933 and taught at the Lenin School of Political Warfare, University of Moscow. Page 52- "We have battled in America since the century's turn, to bring to nothing, and any all-Christian influence and we are succeeding. While we today seem to be kind to Christians, remember that we have yet to influence the Christian world to our ends. When that is done, we will have an end to them everywhere.

"You must work until religion is synonymous with insanity. You must work until the officials of city, county and state governments will not think twice before they pounce on religious groups as enemies.

"You must recruit every agency of the nation marked for conquest, into a foaming hatred of Christianity. You must suborn district attorneys and judges into an intense belief, that Christianity is vicious, bad, insanity-causing, hated and intolerable." (UNQ) It almost sounds as though PSYCHOPOLITICS AND THE PROTOCOLS were written by the same person. Why do you suppose? Because they both reflect the unbending hatred of Judaism for Christianity.

-6 - Do not swerve from this order we give you, because you will find by experience that, humiliated as you are, you will reach the actuality of power." SIGNED: V.S.S.V.F.F. Prince of the Jews, 21st Caslue (November) 1489.

WilloTheWarthog (05/16/00; 10:26:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 30635)
For the record-Gun Control in the 20th Century
http://www.Federalist.com
FOR THE RECORD

In 1929, the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, approximately 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1928, Germany established gun control. From 1939 to 1945, 13 million Jews, gypsies, homosexuals, the mentally ill, and others, who were unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1935, China established gun control. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents were unable to defend themselves and were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1964, Guatemala established gun control. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1970, Uganda established gun control. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

In 1956, Cambodia established gun control. From 1975 to1977, one million "educated" people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

That places total victims who lost their lives -- because they were unable to defend their liberty -- at approximately 56 million in the 20th century.

..ooOoo..

Do we dare fill in the unwritten paragraph, for the next century?

"In 20??, the US established gun control. From 20?? to 20??, ???????? people, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated."

YGM (05/16/00; 10:23:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 30634)
Of Interest re NWO Discussions...
Still Don't Believe NWO Domination and Control?

Revelations From Great And Powerful Men

"The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."
�
Benjamin Disraeli, first Prime Minister of England, in a novel he published in 1844 called "Coningsby, the New Generation"
�
�
"The governments of the present day have to deal not merely with other governments, with emperors, kings and ministers, but also with the secret societies which have everywhere their unscrupulous agents, and can at the last moment upset all the governments' plans. "
�
British Prime Minister Benjamin Disraeli, 1876
�

"Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the Field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."
�
Woodrow Wilson The New Freedom. (1913)
�
�
"In March, 1915, the J.P. Morgan interests, the steel, shipbuilding, and powder interest, and their subsidiary organizations, got together 12 men high up in the newspaper world and employed them to select the most influential newspapers in the United States and sufficient number of them to control generally the policy of the daily press....They found it was only necessary to purchase the control of 25 of the greatest papers.
�
An agreement was reached; the policy of the papers was bought, to be paid for by the month; an editor was furnished for each paper to properly supervise and edit information regarding the questions of preparedness, militarism, financial policies, and other things of national and international nature considered vital to the interests of the purchasers.
�
U.S. Congressman Oscar Callaway, 1917
�
�
"What is important is to dwell upon the increasing evidence of the existence of a secret conspiracy, throughout the world, for the destruction of organized government and the letting loose of evil."
�
Christian Science Monitor editorial, June 19th, l920
�
�
"The real menace of our republic is this invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy length over city, state and nation. Like the octopus of real life, it operates under cover of a self created screen....At the head of this octopus are the Rockefeller Standard Oil interests and a small group of powerful banking houses generally referred to as international bankers. The little coterie of powerful international bankers virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both political parties."
�
New York City Mayor John F. Hylan, 1922
�
�
"From the days of Sparticus, Wieskhopf, Karl Marx, Trotsky, Rosa Luxemberg, and Emma Goldman, this world conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy played a definite recognizable role in the tragedy of the French revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century. And now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their head and have become the undisputed masters of that enormous empire."
�
Winston Churchill, stated to the London Press, in l922.
�
�
"We are at present working discreetly with all our might to wrest this mysterious force called sovereignty out of the clutches of the local nation states of the world.
�
Professor Arnold Toynbee, in a June l931 speech before the Institute for the Study of International Affairs in Copenhagen.
�
�
"The government of the Western nations, whether monarchical or republican, had passed into the invisible hands of a plutocracy, international in power and grasp. It was, I venture to suggest, this semioccult power which....pushed the mass of the American people into the Cauldron of World War 1."
�
British military historian MajorGeneral J.F.C. Fuller, l941
�
�
"For a long time I felt that FDR had developed many thoughts and ideas that were his own to benefit this country, the United States. But, he didn't. Most of his thoughts, his political ammunition, as it were, were carefully manufactured for him in advanced by the Council on Foreign Relations One World Money group.. Brilliantly, with great gusto, like a fine piece of artillery, he exploded that prepared "ammunition" in the middle of an unsuspecting target, the American people, and thus paid off and returned his internationalist political support."
�
"The UN is but a long range, international banking apparatus nearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One World Revolutionaries, hungry for profit and power."
�
"The depression was the calculated 'shearing' of the public by the World Money powers, triggered by the planned sudden shortage of supply of call money in the New York money market......The OneWorld Government leaders and their ever close bankers have now acquired full control of the money and credit machinery of the U.S. via the creation of the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank."
�
Curtis Dall, FDR's son in law as quoted in his book, My Exploited Father in Law
�
�
"The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the larger centers has owned the Government ever since the days of Andrew Jackson."
�
A letter written by FDR to Colonel House, November 21st, l933
�
�
"The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes.
�
Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter, 1952
�
�
"Fifty men have run America, and that's a high figure."
�
Joseph Kennedy, father of JFK, in the July 26th, l936 issue of The New York Times.
�
�
"We shall have world government whether or not you like it by conquest or consent."
�
Statement by Council on Foreign Relations member James Warburg to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950
�
�
"Today the path of total dictatorship in the United States can be laid by strictly legal means, unseen and unheard by the Congress, the President, or the people. Outwardly we have a Constitutional government. We have operating within our government and political system, another body representing another form of government a bureaucratic elite.
�
Senator William Jenner, 1954
��
�
"The case for government by elites is irrefutable"
�
Senator William Fulbright, Former chairman of the US Senate Foreign Relations Committee, stated at a 1963 symposium entitled: The Elite and the Electorate Is Government by the People Possible?
�
�
"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power political, monetary, intellectual and ecclesiastical. What the Trilateral Commission intends is to create a worldwide economic power superior to the political governments of the nationstates involved. As managers and creators of the system they will rule the future."
�
U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater in his l964 book: "With No Apologies."
�
�
The powers of financial capitalism had another farreaching aim, nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole. This system was to be controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements, arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences. The apex of the system was the Bank for International Settlements in Basle, Switzerland, a private bank owned and controlled by the worlds' central banks which were themselves private corporations. The growth of financial capitalism made possible a centralization of world economic control and use of this power for the direct benefit of financiers and the indirect injury of all other economic groups."
�
Tragedy and Hope: A History of The World in Our Time (Macmillan Company, 1966,) Professor Carroll Quigley, Georgetown University.

�
"The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decisionmaking positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one world dictatorship."
�
Former Congressman John Rarick 1971

�
"The directors of the CFR make up a sort of Presidium for that part of the Establishment that guides our destiny as a nation."
�
The Christian Science Monitor September 1, l961
�
�
"The New World Order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down...but in the end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault."
�
CFR member Richard Gardner, writing in the April l974 issue of the CFR's journal, Foreign Affairs
�
�
"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one world government combining supercapitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control...Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
�
Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976
�
�
"The planning of UN can be traced to the 'secret steering committee' established by Secretary [of State Cordell] Hull in January 1943. All of the members of this secret committee, with the exception of Hull a Tennessee politician were members of the Council on Foreign Relations. They saw Hull regularly to plan, select, and guide the labors of the [States] Department's Advisory Committee. It was, in effect, the coordinating agency for all the State Department postwar planning."
�
Professors Laurence H. Shoup and William Minter, writing in their study of the CFR, "Imperial Brain Trust: The CFR and United States Foreign Policy." (Monthly Review Press, 1977).
�
�
"We are grateful to The Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years. It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had not subject to the bright lights of publicity during those years. But, the work is now much more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national autodetermination practiced in past centuries.
�
David Rockefeller, founder of the Trilateral Commission, in an address to a meeting of The Trilateral Commission, in June, 1991.
�
�
"The most powerful clique in these (CFR) groups have one objective in common they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the national independence of the U.S. They want to end national boundaries and racial and ethnic loyalties supposedly to increase business and ensure world peace. What they strive for would inevitably lead to dictatorship and loss of freedoms. by the people. The CFR was founded for "the purpose of promoting disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all powerful one world government.""
�
Harpers magazine, July l958
�

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."
�
Strobe Talbot, Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, as quoted in Time, July 20th, l992.

��

YGM (05/16/00; 10:10:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 30633)
EU & China...WTO
http://www.chinadaily.com
Biz News....
China, EU into fine print on WTO deal (05/16/2000)

Chinese and European Union negotiators got down on Tuesday in the Chinese capital to the fine print of a potential deal that would move Beijing to the brink of WTO membership.

Top level political talks lasted a mere hour between EU Trade Commissioner Pascal Lamy and Foreign Trade Minister Shi Guangsheng in Beijing before they withdrew to leave lower level officials to work on the technical details of the crucial pact.

"The atmosphere continues to be constructive and that's not just a diplomatic expression," said Lamy's spokesman Anthony Gooch. "It's workmanlike. We're into the details."

This is their fourth -- and both sides say they hope it is the last -- round of talks this year on agreeing on China's terms of accession to the World Trade Organisation.

Lamy, participating in the tough negotiations for the second time in hopes of getting a better deal than the United States did in November, kicked off the latest bid to seal an accord on Monday but has given no indication of how things were going.

"It is going to be a hard day," Lamy told reporters as he set off for Tuesday's talks. "As long as we have not concluded, we are working hard."

The 15-nation EU, the biggest of about 10 WTO members yet to sign a deal with China, is seeking further concessions in areas where European industry is strong -- telecommunications, life insurance, banking, vehicles and distribution.

It is the only member which seems to be still having serious difficulty reaching terms with Beijing.

Australian Trade Minister Mark Vaile said on Tuesday he hoped to sign an agreement with Beijing this week to maintain the international momentum for China's WTO accession.

NO TIMETABLE

Gooch told reporters after Monday's talks it was too early to say whether China had shown the greater flexibility Lamy called for, but he said technical talks over the past few days were conducted in a "positive and constructive spirit".

"We don't have any pre-ordained timetable," Gooch said when asked how long Lamy intended to stay.

"Our principle will be to stay for as long as it is constructive and useful and necessary, and hopefully that will be culminating with a deal at the end of it," he said.

There has been no comment so far from Chinese negotiators, who have made it plain they have no desire to go beyond the US deal they signed in November -- one which some powerful ministries in Beijing thought had given far too much away.

YGM (05/16/00; 10:02:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 30632)
From Jeff Rense Site......More GATA Press...
http://www.sightings.com/general/goldmktmn.htm
"The Continuing Gold Market Manipulation"...by Bill Murphy.

GO GATA...Gold Eagle forum dwellers have been putting on a spectacular show of solidarity for email campaigns and all around GATA support lately.......truly heartning. ......YGM

ORO (05/16/00; 09:57:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 30631)
ss of nep
The protocols are structured as old arguments put forward by many in opposition to classic liberalism ammended with "goyim" and into which a couple of quotes from the zionist congress were interlaced.

The program is no different from the one warned against before by Jefferson and many others and has little relationship to Jews as such. It is the elitist program of Rhodes and company with embelishments put in by the Tsar's pogrom police. It was printed up in Russian and distributed in quantity. It is poppularly believed, even today, in eastern Europe, to be an authentic document. It is not.

The arguments and the plan are old and some of the arguments work and have certainly gained the attention of Rhodes and Rothschild, as well as Rockefeler and others who have acted on them as the "business opportunities" they were, however disgusting and immoral. That banking had historically seen high participation by Jews is a matter of historical conditions, that reflect only on the particular opportunities available to Jews at the time, when they were not allowed to own land, work land or join guilds. Jews were in merchant and gold businesses because they (1) had little chance to do anything else, (2) had a common language to use from England through Central Europe and to Turkey and Persia. (3) were often forced to travel because of various banishments.

The presentation in your earlier posted URL
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/chapter3.htm
Gives a stronger analysis with better delineation of the same lines of thinking. As you see, the program is no more "Jewish" than anything else.

I like that site - in general - very much.
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/

Particularly:
"This country was formed as a REPUBLIC, not a democracy. As a point of historical FACT, a democracy has never worked and has ALWAYS evolved into a socialistic dictatorship."

"Democracy is when two wolves and a sheep vote on what they will have for lunch."

Leland (05/16/00; 09:51:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30630)
Elwood, I Think You're Right! Something About big Business in Washington
Wednesday May 10, 5:24 pm Eastern Time

US says Kazakh oil find helps
Baku-Ceyhan pipeline

WASHINGTON, May 10 (Reuters) - The United States
believes a potentially huge oil discovery off Kazakhstan's
Caspian coast would help support a proposed multi-billion dollar pipeline to carry the region's
crude to western markets.

Initial estimates put reserves at the Kazakh oil field as high as 30 billion barrels, more than enough
oil to help fill the proposed, $2.7 billion, U.S.-backed pipeline that would stretch 1,080 miles
(1,738 km) from Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan, to Turkey's Mediterranean port of Ceyhan.

``We certainly think (Kazakh) oil from the east Caspian would be beneficial for the Baku-Cehyan
pipeline,'' said a State Department official Wednesday, speaking on condition of anonymity. ``Any
oil discoveries would help anybody trying to develop export pipelines,'' he added.

However, Exxon Mobil (NYSE:XOM - news), one of the oil firms in an international consortium
that is searching for Caspian crude and would have to pay for the pipeline, believes it is too soon
to know if the Kazakh oil find will be big enough to make the Baku-Cehyan route commercially
viable.

``It's just too early to tell,'' said Exxon Mobil spokesman Tom Cirigliano. He said Exxon Mobil
still is not sure Baku-Ceyhan is the best pipeline route for exporting Caspian oil and the project
must be supported by both investors and lenders.

``Studies conducted to date have failed to confirm the commerciality of the Baku-Ceyhan
(pipeline),'' he said. ``We don't think all potential export routes have been evaluated, and that
needs to happen.''

The pipeline has a price tag of about $2.7 billion. The United State believes it can be built by 2004
with loans from several U.S. credit agencies funding part of the project.

While Washington and BP Amoco (quote from Yahoo! UK & Ireland: BPA.L) favour the
Baku-Cehyan route, other oil companies are worried there will not be enough crude supplies
found in the region to justify building the pipeline anytime soon.

The newly discovered oil from the Kashagan field located off Kazakhstan's coastline could be the
gusher the project needs.

Kazakhstan's prime minister said Wednesday the Kashagan oil field promises to be huge. ``We
are talking about big deposits of oil,'' he said.

Preliminary drilling results are still being analysed and an announcement on the size of the oil field is
not expected until mid-August.

Kazakh president Nursultan Nazarbayev said last month that the Central Asian state may rival
Saudi Arabia, the world's largest oil producer, by 2015, when Kazakhstan's daily oil output may
reach 8 million barrels per day from last year's 578,000 bpd.

(As Usual, Fair Use For Educational/Research Purposes Only.)

YGM (05/16/00; 09:51:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 30629)
Noteworthy Gold Purchase
Gold Bashers won't talk about this tho....
Tuesday May 16, 7:43 am Eastern Time

"Russia's Sberbank to buy 25 tonnes gold in 2000"

MOSCOW, May 16 (Reuters) - Russia's biggest bank, Sberbank , will buy 25 tonnes of gold from producers this year, up from last year's 20 tonnes, Alla Alyoshkina, the bank's first deputy chief executive, told reporters on Tuesday.

``In 1999 our share was 17 percent of the (domestic gold) market while this year our share should be around 20 percent,'' Alla Alyoshkina said.

In January Russia's Gold Industrialists' Union estimated the country's gold output in 1999 at 125.87 tonnes and said in 2000 Russia could produce between 120 and 125 tonnes.

Accurate gold production data in Russia is considered classified information.

Russia's central bank, which controls Sberbank, is also its main buyer of gold, Alyoshkina said.

``Only when the central bank declines to buy gold from us we turn to the West,'' she said.

VanRip (05/16/00; 09:44:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 30628)
Price Inflation?
One way to keep some food price inflation down is to keep the price of an item steady but reduce the contents of the package. I see this happening especially with canned goods. Pretty soon I'm going to have to buy a new hand held can opener with a smaller cutting wheel. The old one I use now has a wheel that is almost too large for the new cans (tuna, beans, soup, etc.) and keeps slipping up and over the edge of the can. I'm lucky to get some of them open. If the cans get any smaller, I won't be able to use it at all. Bummer.

Elwood (05/16/00; 09:42:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 30627)
Big Oil find in Kazakhstan?
Does the timing of this announcement strike anyone (besides me) as odd? Oil prices are rising, and the dollar is dying. What more could the administration ask for than a major oil find? I noticed from the article that a big deal is being made about it with only one exploratory well being drilled, and that most of the quotes are not from industry people but Clinton administration people. That's not how things are usually done in the oil business. One well just doesn't make front-page news. From someone with over 10 years experience in the industry.
Elwood

YGM (05/16/00; 09:16:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 30626)
Check Out FallStreet/Gata Ad News Links...
http://www.fallstreet.com/
GATA is getting wider press...yahoo...gain a little here!

ss of nep (05/16/00; 09:16:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 30625)
I can relate to this

Date: Tue May 16 2000 10:48
CompGeek (@Sheeple of a different flock) ID#343259:
Been cogitating about discussions this past week centering on issue of whether Kitco posters are still sheeple, but of a different flock. After reflection, I think I am a sheeple, but a black sheeple.

Leland (05/16/00; 09:12:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 30624)
Colin Campbell, Referred to in Laura's Posting, Recommended...
http://www.oilcrisis.com/campbell/assessments.htm
Assessing the world's oil supply is mind boggling.

Laura (05/16/00; 08:59:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 30623)
Oil Has Production Peaked?
http://www.aapg.org/explorer/cassandras.html
"not all shadows are cast by light---some are cast by darkness."

Leland (05/16/00; 08:38:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30622)
"Rubber Band Price for Oil"
Stretching the band
"Rubber" price band for crude oil spells inflation

By Dr. Irwin Kellner, CBS MarketWatch
Last Update: 5:47 AM ET May 16, 2000

NEW YORK (CBS.MW) -- Don't think for one minute that inflation is
cooling off just because wholesale prices fell in April and consumer prices
were unchanged.

The drop in April's producer price index was due entirely to a brief
decline in the price of crude oil, which has since reversed.

Indeed, last week crude oil prices reached a
seven-week high after several major oil producers
said they had no plans to boost output. Prices for
June delivery breached the $30 a barrel mark,
before falling back to close just under $30.

Early last month, the price of crude had fallen
below $25 a barrel in response to an increase in
production by the oil producing countries. It
hovered just above $25 during April, before
shooting up in early May because of strong
demand.

It all adds up

At today's levels, oil prices will add to May's wholesale price index, rather
than subtract, as they did in April.

Unless there were substantial drops in other categories, May's wholesale
price report will not make for pleasant reading, when it is released next
month. This possibility did not go unnoticed by the Federal Reserve's
interest rate-setting Open Market Committee. See related story

Nor did the fact that the oil producing countries
allowed the price of crude to remain above $28 a
barrel. This was the top of the band they said they
were establishing in March; the bottom was $22.

The reason for the band was to give the oil
producers guidance on production decisions, with
the objective to help stabilize oil prices.

In the past year, the price of crude had gone as low
as $10 a barrel, and as high as $34.

Rubber band man

Guess what, folks? This so-called price band has
turned out to be more like a rubber band. And like
a rubber band, it is being stretched to suit the oil
producers.

To be sure, the entire concept of a price band
reeks of elasticity. There is no written document
that I am aware of that spells out the details.

We are not sure which types of crude are subject to this band, nor do we
know if the price they are referring to is based on a moving average, or an
actual daily price.

All we know is that prices have to trade beyond the range for 20
consecutive days. If they do, then the oil producers are supposed to
adjust output up or down by 500,000 barrels a day.

But waiting for more oil is like waiting for Godot; the oil producing
countries are not pumping any more this month, nor do they have plans to
do so in June.

Anyone care to guess what this means for prices---and interest rates?

(Fair Use for Educational/Research Purposes Only.)

Gandalf the White (05/16/00; 08:18:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 30621)
BB's golden tour of "bars"
Black Blade (05/16/00; 06:25:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 30614)
OK, another Photo
http://lam.mus.ca.us/lacmnh/departments/research/entomology/scarabs/art9.htm
Just wouldn't be complete without "Insecta", so here's a photo of a gold Scarab Beetle.
====
BUT BB --- you do realize that the Scarab Beetle ie: gold beetle (Plusiotis resplendens) is not Au but just "like" the new golden US Dollar coin !!
<:-)

ss of nep (05/16/00; 08:04:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 30620)
The NWO agenda
http://quotes.strongcity.com/protocols_of_zion.html

The NWO agenda is there for the reading
Not one single item as written has not come to pass

It is a long term multi-generational plan

To discount it is, IMO, the same as sticking ones head in the sand

- How long can gold manipulation continue - -
- from PROTOCOL No. 22
-

IN OUR HANDS IS THE GREATEST POWER OF OUR DAY - GOLD: IN TWO DAYS WE CAN PROCURE FROM OUR STOREHOUSES ANY QUANTITY WE MAY PLEASE.

- - -

Just What Happened?

We might well observe certain events which are factual and historical:

In 1897 the first Zionist Congress was held for the setting up of a Jewish state in Palestine. Within two years The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion surfaced then published in 1905.

In the early decades of the century many were becoming aware of what they perceived was a Jewish conspiracy to not only set up a Jewish state, but to bring the world under Jewish influence.

In the 30s and 40s was the Jewish holocaust (sacrifice).

In the late 40s the U.N. gave the Jews national territory in Palestine and many Jews migrated to that land. The Protocols was discounted as a fraudulent document and in some places banned.

In the latter half of the century the Protocols was described as a hoax. The interesting point here is that there is no evidence or proof that it is a hoax or that it is authentic. If one looks into any encyclopedia he will find the words "forgery", "hoax" or "fraudulent" in regards to this document without the evidence for such a statement. As already stated, their authenticity cannot be proven either. It would be best to stay clear of theories and simply look at events. Events are plain enough and speak loudly enough.

Leland (05/16/00; 07:42:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 30619)
From INSIGHT MAGAZINE ... Well Written
Gold May Move in Volatile
Markets

By Charles A. Cerami

Despite a booming economy and recent fluctuations
in the price of the precious metal, financial analysts,
fund managers and brokers still regard it as a sound
investment.

When its price dawdled for years, gold was doing its old job by
reflecting an absence of inflation. Now it is stirring again in the face of
volatile stock markets and investors looking for a safe haven.
Last fall the price of gold suddenly took a sharp upswing from
$280 an ounce to more than $300 per ounce. There was widespread
excitement as investors wondered whether it was a warning that
hidden inflation was on the way or a signal that a move to buy coins
or bullion or futures contracts or gold-mine stocks could earn a
bundle.
But it was not a valid signal and the price soon sank back to the
$280 level. The move was related to an obscure fact that has a
bearing on today's situation.
In February, a similar jump occurred � from $288 to $313 in
one afternoon. Even as the price appeared to simmer down to the
$280 range a new fear was created in some quarters, a fear that may
not let the market sleep long. While the price could rise and fall
indecisively at first, insiders claim to see a chance gold could vault to
$600 an ounce.
Investors who realize the implications of this � how much of a
threat it can be to the other markets and how much money a
leveraged investment can earn on that kind of move � are looking
into the facts underlying these fluctuations.
Even when most people � and many central bankers � think
the precious metal is a fading relic, Federal Reserve Board Chairman
Alan Greenspan watches the gold price almost as avidly as he
watches the money supply. So does Insight. For the fact is that gold
has not been the failure that some have called it during the years of
modest prices. The speculators who want it to jump at their command
have not been happy. Nor have the "gold bugs," who consider it a
mystical substance with divine properties. But the gold price stayed in
check because inflation has been in check. Now, after so much
stock-market volatility and such a prolonged period of prosperity,
savvy traders are alertly watching for the possibility that gold will start
telling a new story.
The underlying supply-and-demand situation ultimately will
determine price. All the gold produced worldwide in any given year is
less than all the gold used for dentistry, jewelry, industry and
investment that year. Such factors would create a shortfall and big
upward push for the price, except for the large quantity of old gold
held by governments and institutions such as the International
Monetary Fund, or IMF.
Insight has made a special and very broad review, tapping a
variety of sources here and abroad � brokers, fund managers,
metals specialists and users of industrial gold � for a summary of
findings.
First, these experts say, the cause of the recent volatility was not
in itself proof of a coming price spiral. Second, entirely apart from
this, behavior patterns in the industry now are very similar to past
situations that led to booms in the price of gold. Here is a simple
explanation of the first conclusion and a more detailed picture of the
second.
The October price jump largely was the reversal of a blunder
that artificially had knocked gold's price down to the price at which it
again returned. The IMF had announced a plan to sell off some of its
gold and then use the proceeds to ease the debt burden of some of
the world's poorest countries. Soon after, some governments began
to sell part of their own gold holdings. When word reaches the
market that tons of any commodity are going to leave storage and be
dumped on the market, the price takes a hit. That was expected.
What somehow was overlooked was that gold is mined by
almost 60 countries � including many of the poor nations that the
affluent countries were trying to help. Before long, these supposed
beneficiaries were screaming in pain. "Stop your sales!" they pleaded,
because the lower price they were getting for their newly mined gold
was hurting their finances instead of helping. So when the IMF and
World Bank had their big annual meeting in Washington in September
1999, the embarrassed global experts agreed to shelve those sale
plans, which allowed the price to move back up from around $250
per ounce to the $320 level.
That returned the market to just a little more than the preblunder
prices. It did not, in itself, create the promise of a new gold-price
surge. In fact, the gold price began to sag after the initial boost.
Then something else happened last fall that almost was
unnoticed. Many central banks had been lending gold to some of the
big financial houses on Wall Street, a neat and legal operation that
allowed those houses to borrow against the gold at very low interest
rates and then re-lend the money at normal rates. In September, the
central banks let it be known that they no longer would lend their
gold. The borrowers began living precariously, knowing they would
have to return the borrowed gold at some point. They are in the same
spot as anybody who is in a "short" position on any stock or
commodity: They're in fear of a gold-price increase that could force
them to buy back gold at higher prices.
This potential squeeze, plus the hefty upward move in oil prices,
explains the February jump in the gold price followed by relaxation to
the $280 level. But keep in mind that the basic world supply-demand
picture also is bullish. So three factors seem to be building for an
upward push of gold price.
Needless to say, there are a variety of differing and even
conflicting opinions. If that were not so, if all the highly informed
observers were thinking along one line, the price already would be
heading in some predetermined direction instead of returning to $280.
Those who are most informed tell Insight they sense a major
movement in the offing, but they are hesitant, perhaps because they
know too much.
They know the mine owners and they are critical of their
management methods. They know that most of the gold mines are not
well-financed. And when many small competitors find it hard to hold
out for better prices, they are apt to let their product go too easily,
thus defeating themselves. So as the experts think of the often inept
executives who mine the gold, they find it hard to foresee that such
bumblers will coordinate their actions well enough to move gold
prices back up to the high level of 20 years ago.
The insiders may be wrong in this, for it was not clever
management or marketing skill that sent gold as high as $880 per
ounce. It was scarcity in the face of high demand, which experts say
is what we could be seeing as high fluctuations in the Dow Jones
industrial average and the NASDAQ high-tech market frighten
investors into hedging with gold as well as bonds.
Today, worldwide production of gold is about 2,300 tonnes
annually (or 2,530 short tons; the spelling difference is because gold
professionals count in metric tons of 1,000 kilograms), having
doubled since 1980 largely owing to new technology. But demand is
at an all-time high. During the second quarter of 1999, jewelry
demand increased by 13 percent over 1998. Investment demand rose
by 32 percent. Demand for dental and industrial uses also increased.
Overall, the total consumption was 809.5 tonnes (890.45 short tons),
according to the World Gold Council.
For the full year, this means there were buyers for some 30
percent more than the amount of new gold produced. That normally
would be a prescription for a soaring price, except for the pervasive
fear that government-held or IMF gold suddenly might have come
onto the market. With that fear now abated, any sharp inflation signal
� or an important military scare or market panic � could create an
explosive move in the gold price.
For perspective, it helps to realize that the entire gold market is
quite small in relation to most industries. South Africa has almost half
the world's resources, but it is holding back and producing only about
550 tonnes (605 short tons) annually, which is roughly one-fourth of
the world output. This means that South Africa is not depleting its
underground supply as rapidly as most other countries, and its mines
will remain the richest. The United States is in second place with an
output of nearly 400 tonnes (440 short tons). We export only about
$6 billion worth of nonmonetary gold per year and import only $3
billion worth. In this country, 70 percent of the gold is used for
jewelry and the arts, 23 percent is in electronics and other industries
and 7 percent goes for dentistry. Russia, Australia, Latin America,
China, Ghana and Indonesia are others that produce 50 or more
tonnes (55 short tons) of gold annually.
What makes these little numbers count for so much is that gold is
a sort of "supermoney" that has permanent value because it is hard to
produce, incredibly durable and very useful. Any government can
print paper money without limit, but when that flimsy currency is
compared with gold's steadiness, the contrast forces central bankers
to think a little harder about their decisions.
Greg Weldon, a metals expert who advises Prudential Securities,
while acknowledging that there are no precise fundamentals to prove
it, clearly leans toward the view that the coming year will bring
somewhat higher gold prices than the past year. To the frequent
remark that, "Gold has lost its allure as an inflation hedge," he
responds, "Bull! Gold has been an extremely accurate gauge of
macro-deflation." In other words, he thinks gold also will be well
ahead of the markets when it is time for storm signals to be posted.
Douglas Cohen of Morgan Stanley Dean Witter is sharply critical
of the failure of the gold companies to consolidate, as so many other
industries have done in the search for efficiency and greater financial
strength. "I think all the gold companies have looked across the room
for any dancing partner that may appeal to them," he says. "A few
couples are going to hook up, and then others are going to get out on
the dance floor before the music finally stops."
Actually investing in gold or the stocks of gold mines is not for
everyone. It requires patience and setting aside part of the investment
capital that normally would be devoted to more aggressive uses. At
the very least, investors will find it rewarding to watch gold and the
other precious metals � especially silver and platinum � for the
signals they usually give about other market conditions that may give
weeks or months of head start over the broad investing public.

Getting in on Gold's Long-Term Future

If you are one of those who wants to participate actively in the
eventual profits that gold can bring, you need to choose between
buying gold stocks or owning the metal itself. Stocks have a stronger
appeal because they can earn dividends that gold coins or bullion do
not pay.
Insight does not name specific stocks, but any major brokerage
house can give you a complete rundown on vital facts about South
African, U.S., Canadian and Australian gold-mine shares.
For those who like the idea of having actual gold in hand for the
future, there is a quite conservative way of managing it. First, it never
should take up more than 10 to 12 percent of your investment capital.
The reason is that gold, being a steady store of value, simply will
move up with inflation over a long period of time. A speculator may
make big gains if he or she happens to buy and resell at just the right
moments. But, over the long term, it is a safe haven, not truly an
investment that keeps increasing your purchasing power, as the stock
of a well-run company might do.
Next, if you do make the decision to buy gold, should it be in the
form of bullion or gold coins? The coins referred to here often are
called "bullion coins," meaning that they are recently minted, such as
the South African Krugerrand or the Canadian Maple Leaf, and their
value is only a little more than that of their gold content. The
advantage of these coins is that they enable you to buy in relatively
small quantities � just an ounce or so at a time � and that makes
them the preferred vehicle for the next step that we suggest.
It is not in your best interest to buy all the gold you decide on at
one time. A more prudent financial strategy for getting into almost any
financial market is called "dollar-cost averaging," which most often is
mentioned in connection with stocks. It means setting a certain
amount of money that you know you can invest each month (or each
quarter, if that is more comfortable) and not letting any economic
news alter that decision.
With this method, you never feel stressed about seeing your
investment drop in price. On the contrary, a lower price is exactly
what you wish for, because you then will be getting more gold for the
money. This way of buying at a variety of prices assures you of having
a good average price, and the accumulation will be very rewarding
after a few years of steady buying. Then, whenever gold adjusts to a
much higher price level, the value of your holdings could astonish you.

If coins are the form of gold you decide on, take the time to
compare several possible sources for the best price. The Yellow
Pages of any large city will show a listing of several nearby dealers, or
look for advertisements in journals you trust. There should not be any
huge gap in the quotations you get from the established houses, but
even a few percentage points of difference will add up to a substantial
amount in the number of coins you stack up from this method of
monthly buying.
Some experts believe that silver is an even better play than gold,
that it has a good chance of soaring in price even if gold does not.
Warren Buffet is one of these. He bought 130 million ounces of silver
in 1998. George Soros is another believer. In this case, trading the
metal itself is a roller coaster that can double or fall by half, but
because silver's price is so much less than gold's, this makes it even
easier to use the dollar-cost-averaging method of continuous
purchasing.

� CC

(Fair Use For Educational/Research Purposes Only.)

ss of nep (05/16/00; 07:18:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 30618)
Without the behind-the-scenes support of debt money banking it is doomed to sink into monetary inflation.
http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/chapter3.htm

I would not hold my breath.

There is an interesting point of view at the link.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 07:10:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30617)
the socialist faction endangers the business side
This may be however,

TBTP could care less about Business

they do not control.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 07:07:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30616)
Rhodes
Cecil Rhodes - Funded via RottenChild established
the Rhodes Scholarships program too mold the future
holders of high government office on its wat to the NWO.

ORO (05/16/00; 06:47:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 30615)
NWO - two, but not the same

The "Novus Ordo Seclorum" of the Federal Reserve Note is a banker's order. That order was built in concert with a socialist "Rhodesian" concept over the process of years. Rhodes was specific in his view that government and business should act in concert to achieve particular social goals for the mutual benefit of both.

The arrangement will be coming to an end because of the simple facts that the one world government envisioned by the socialist faction endangers the business side's ability to control the government side.

The potential for eradication of the dollar is the strongest element. Without a global debt money to benefit from and through which to obtain the public's resources through obligations given by its government, the motivating factor for the arrangement is gone. Only the socialist, or social-democrat global government is all that is left. Without the behind-the-scenes support of debt money banking it is doomed to sink into monetary inflation.

The Euro structure - in which the governments are separating from their old symbiosis with commercial banking is the major change. The dollar system is based on the US government's debt (until last year, when commercial paper was allowed into the mix) whereas the Euro is obligations of whatever borrower created the outstanding Euro, and the Euro's monetary base is based on commercial debt - not government debt.

Black Blade (05/16/00; 06:25:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 30614)
OK, another Photo
http://lam.mus.ca.us/lacmnh/departments/research/entomology/scarabs/art9.htm
Just wouldn't be complete without "Insecta", so here's a photo of a gold Scarab Beetle.

Black Blade (05/16/00; 06:21:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 30613)
Photos of Gold Bars
http://www.gold.org/Inve/Bars/Hall_1.htm
I especially like the Korean "Pig Bar". Anyway, something to gawk at before the market open!

SteveH (05/16/00; 06:16:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 30612)
Oil
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/000516/tx_gata.html
and GATA.

Oil futures now at $30.05!

See Business Wire press release above re: GATA.

Black Blade (05/16/00; 05:59:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 30611)
Morning Wakeup Call!
Source: Bridge News
Asia Precious Metals Review: Gold hovers around $275 in thin trade
By Hiroyuki Fujiwara, BridgeNews

Tokyo--May 16--Spot gold hovered at around the key U.S. $275 per ounce in a sluggish market on Tuesday in Asia after overnight dips, dealers said. Light buying underpinned prices below the key support line but the absence of buying interests prevented gold from recovering, they said. Platinum was supported above $500 after an overnight slip on a lack of follow-through selling, the dealers said. Expectations of a U.S. interest rate hike following the Federal Open Market Committee (FOMC) meeting later Tuesday kept players hesitant to buy gold here, the dealers said. Players do not expect a near-term sharp plunge in the gold market, however, prices are unlikely to recover steadily without fresh incentives, they said.

Black Blade: Now would a 75 basis point increase just perk thing up a bit? ;-)

Johnson Matthey: Platinum demand up by 4% in 1999 to 5.6m oz

London--May 15--Platinum demand in 1999 rose by 4% to 5.6 million ounces, helped mainly by the 2.88 million ounces consumed by the jewelry industry, according to Johnson Matthey's Platinum 2000 report. Total supply of platinum fell by 10% to 4.87 million ounces--the lowest level since 1994--due in part to the large fall in Russian sales to 540,000 ounces because of legal complications, and despite a 6% rise in South African sales. (Story .14306)

Johnson Matthey: Palladium demand at record 9.37 mln oz in 1999

London--May 15--Demand for palladium was a record 9.37 million ounces in 1999, driven mainly by purchases by auto companies--5.88 million ounces--according to Johnson Matthey's Platinum 2000 report. As a result, demand exceeded supply by 1.31 million ounces. A quarter of the shortfall was met by sales from the U.S. defense stockpile, although heavy selling by funds which liquidated large holdings is also thought to have taken place, Johnson Matthey said. (Story .14423)

Black Blade: This supply-demand equation will only widen as it becomes apparent that the Russians can't/won't deliver. Even had to raid the US Defense Stockpile - Hmmmmm��..

S. Africa's Amplats to up platinum output to 3.5 mln oz in 2006

New York--May 15--South Africa's Anglo American Platinum Corporation (Amplats) plans to increase its platinum production from the 1999 level of about 2 million ounces to 3.5 million ounces by the end of calendar year 2006, the company said in a press release. The move comes in reaction to better jewelry, industrial and autocatalyst demand. (Story .23190)

Black Blade: Russia's loss - S Africa's gain. Look for auto manufacturers to revert back to Platinum autocatalysts as Palladium is found to be unavailable.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 05:54:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 30610)
Extract from the indicated link
http://www.factsoffshore.com/usasit.html

This entire system has been created to regain control of the colonies, the only way that really counts - financially. The British monarchy owns huge tracts of land in both Canada and the United States and it is the British Government with the consent of the British Monarchy that created offshore tax havens as a means of laundering their drug money.

Hill Billy Mitchell (05/16/00; 05:50:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 30609)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.us/releases/H15/update/

Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release

Release Date: May 15 2000

Rates For Friday, May 12, 2000

Federal funds 6.11

Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 6.14
10-year 6.51
20-year 6.62
30-year 6.20

right-side up spread FF vs long bond = +.09%

ss of nep (05/16/00; 05:44:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 30608)
Extract from the indicated site
http://www.factsoffshore.com/cansit.html

Most Canadians are unaware that they live in one of the World's highest Tax Regimes and Indebted Countries.

Canadians pay 53.6% Personal Income Tax at $60,000. Americans pay 39.6% at US $250,000. Convert to Canadian Dollars and Canadians pay 53.6% P.I.T. at US$40,000.

Canadians in the upper income strata pay 20 times more tax.

Canada's combined Federal, Provincial and Municipal debt is $5,700,000,000,000, (Trillion). The same as the US, but we are 1/10th the population. That's $190,000 for every man, woman and child.

Canadian taxes increase 106% faster than income is earned.

Provincial Health Care programs are $1.4 Trillion in debt.

Canada has monetary controls on $10,000 or more and is considering a "Cash Tax," to deter people from using cash.

Money Orders and Cashier's Cheques in excess of $1,000 are reported.

Canadians are subjected to 165 taxes and license fees which can represent 80% of income.

The Bank of Canada is a private corporation, created December 1913. The same year as the American Federal Reserve. Only coincidental you say?

Your money is not created by your government but by private banks. The Bank of Canada is privately owned with no voting interest by any Canadian. All central banks are owned by the International Banksters. These same International Banksters control the United Nations. Perhaps you should ask the question: who do your military and paramilitary swear an oath of allegiance to? - it certainly isn't Canada.

JavaMan (05/16/00; 05:33:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 30607)
SteveH...
Thanks for the much-appreciated info.

ss of nep (05/16/00; 05:12:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 30606)
Indicated msg should read ...
ss of nep (05/16/00; 05:00:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30605)

Are you indicating ....

ss of nep (05/16/00; 05:00:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 30605)
ORO (05/09/00; 19:43:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 30207)

On the 9-th you stated "The NWO is on its death bed"...

Are indicating something different with this mornings(16-th)
two posts ?

ss of nep (05/16/00; 04:42:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 30604)
ced_s (05/15/00; 19:55:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 30578)

Is your name Ed Stuart ?

If so are you related to me, Steve Stuart ?

My branch of the family has been in Toronto for about 150 years.

HI - HAT (05/16/00; 04:24:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 30603)
ORO
What you have noted about government being the successor to the sovereign in common law and the present state of immunity-unaccountability the RICO, scamster, politicos now enjoy, will I hope soon result in a grassroots seething rage against them during the ensueing chaos their imperious system will no doubt soon engender.

The key to their undoing is that they have poisoned the very body-politic at whose tits their vile mouths suck out their sustanance. The poisoned mothers milk money will drown them in their oun puke.

Black Blade (05/16/00; 03:54:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 30602)
Gold Bar type and weight.
http://www.gold.org/Inve/Bars/Types.htm
Just about anything you wanted to know about gold bars. Goes beyond defining Tolas, Teals, etc.

Yep, them keys are sticking.

Black Blade (05/16/00; 03:52:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 30601)
Gold Bar type and weight.
http://www.gold.org/Inve/Bars/Types.htm
Just about anything you wanted to know about gold bars. Gos beyond defing Tolas, Teals, etc.

ORO (5/16/2000; 2:40:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 30600)
Hip - Organisation
Join the appropriate organizations.

Air your thoughts in public.

Study the reality of the functions and standings of law, statute and terms of treaty.

Press your federal and state representatives to the wall, demand clear answers to clear questions. Demand action. Pester, pester, pester. Record all conversations with the reps and their staffers. Tell them you are doing so before the conversation starts. What you don't have a record of can be denied.

Talk to everyone you know. Ask them what their position is on the different matters at hand. Ask them to justify their position.

A short book with a rather clear presentation is given below:
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nockpref.pdf
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock1.pdf
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock2.pdf
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock3.pdf
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock4.pdf
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock5.pdf
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock6.pdf

In MS Word format:

http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nockpref.doc
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock1.doc
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock2.doc
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock3.doc
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock4.doc
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock5.doc
http://numismaticrareuscoin.com/nbn/Nock/nock6.doc

One note about this book is that there seems to be some ambivalence about whether people institute government by free consent or by acquiesence to overwhelming force. History leaves no question behind. It is most definitely the latter. All governments in history have been created by the holders of the power of violence for the reduction in the cost (the amount of violence) of obtaining booty.

Kings and queens and their knights and Lords are the titles of robbers that have cut perpetual deals with their victims in what ammounts to a protection racket.

The only exceptions were (for a short time and largely in an illusory rather than real sense) the USA and Switzerland.

Davidson and Rees-Mogg make the case very clearly and logically, that violence is excercized for gain by government for government. "By the people, for the people" may be written, but it is not the reality. Historically, if a government did not use its available resources, bankers would finance an enemy who would conquer the land and remove the government in favor of a new one that did rob its people of as many of the resources as was possible.

The proliferation of nuclear weapons can prevent this kind of politics. As does the globalization of business in a way that makes supply chains so broadly distributed that no particular nation may have a sufficient resource to assure the prospective conquering government a sufficient return. This is because of the taxation of the resource (necessary for obtaining a profit from violence) makes it uncompetitive in trade and eliminates "the goose" by "taking its eggs". The intelectuallization of so great a portion of the economy, has pushed the backing of any government's empire an anachronism. This is because intelectual property and the few individuals who create it are very mobile and can recreate their business outside the jurisdiction of the conqueror.

The only remaining form that can possible obtain a sufficient return is a global government. However, a global government can take control of the great banker's assets just as easilly as those of any other. Without the strong protections of liberty we are seeking, the global government poses as much threat to bankers as it does to us,

YGM (5/16/2000; 1:48:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 30599)
ORO
Global Governance....no escape
Sad but true I suppose....Rockefellers, Gnomes, Bildebergers, Templar Knighst, Skulls,..... on & on it goes......
who and where is the Great Oz....(not the one in Heaven either).....

Well if you can't beat them and you sure can't join them, I guess you just have two choices.....succumb or stand and fight.....Thank goodness many will choose the latter...YGM

DaveC (5/16/2000; 1:32:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 30598)
Twice Discipled (5/15/2000; 9:35:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 30551)
Here are a few links that may help in your quest.

http://www.freedomabovefortune.com/

Joe Bannister, former IRS Criminal Investigation Division Special Agent who learned of serious constitutional questions relating to the federal income tax and the federal banking and monetary systems.

Major lawsuit filed against IRS

http://www.sightings.com/general/suit.htm

Breakthrough in the search for legality of IRS

http://www.sightings.com/general/abreaktax.htm

House bill to abolish IRS

http://www.sightings.com/general/boohiss.htm

As for the selling assets ideas, I agree. Though don't listen to me since you don't know me from Adam. But I have done this!

Two years ago my wife and I owned 8 pieces of residential real estate in three states. We sold it all and moved. We have the money offshore and THE GOLD IN THE SAFE!

Good luck.

Hipplebeck (5/16/2000; 1:09:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 30597)
to oro
instead of Nazis
it will be Wazis

Hipplebeck (5/16/2000; 1:06:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 30596)
to oro
well said.
I see it coming too, and I am struggling to find a way to fight it.

ORO (5/16/2000; 0:57:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 30595)
Global Governance - no escape
http://www.cgg.ch/contents.htm

The above URL is for the following report:

Our Global Neighbourhood
the report of the Commission on Global Governance

It is part of the Commission on Global Governance (CGG) web site.

Understand that some of these people think they are doing good.

Understand from reading the above that the goals they seek and the methods they suggest will only end with a dictatorship of global bureaucracy. A headless corpse making rules without recourse. Governing the world so that there be no escape from the "values" they want to impose. No way for individuals to avoid the terrors of omnipotent government, because, like one of the many single and all powerfull gods of monotheistic religions, it would be everywhere at once.

A cursory reading of the report will bring any who have a grasp of the principles of economic and political reality to the conclusion that the writers are fronting for a group that believes that global socialism is controllable in the same way local socialism is. It is not.

Like the industrialists of Chile who wanted a "strong leader", the backers of global socialism will find themselves to be among the second tier of victims, with no control over their financial empires, subject to the whims and interests of a armed thugs and aimless bureaucracy. With no place to escape to, and no place to keep one's means from being overtaken, the global economic elite will be bereft of the tool of bribery that has allowed control of local socialism around the globe.

The social democracy envisioned will quickly proceed to become the kind of nightmare that plain folks experience under any tyrany from which they can't escape, not only for the plain folks, but for the the great and mighty financiers who are attempting to construct it in their favor. The realization of this will bring the supporters of this program to reverse course at the last moment. The reversal will be interesting to watch as the support for the neo-Fabian New Left is split and some turns into opposition. Once well respected globalist politicians around the world will have their blackmailer's dossier aired in public. (The powerful financier must have a credible threat over the people he supports for office as well as a tangible reward for their towing the line.)

Mr. David Rockefeller, if my head rolls, be sure that yours is next.

If you believe the principles of the report are a recipe for disaster, call your congressmen and insist that he vote for the US to withdraw from all transnational institutions when they are not under veto control by the United States. First in line is undoing of the GATT and the abominable WTO it has spawned. It is unnecessary, and it is not lawful.

Furthermore, make sure to participate in a push to put all terms of US treaties under the limitations of the constitution. Currently, they are not. The reality of the matter is that the US is defacto ruled by terms of treaty not by law of the court. This has been the case since the days of the founding of the United States.

Finally, participate in a push to remove the treatment of the state (government) as legal successor to the sovereign in common law, and fight to eliminate the immunity of officers of government (local state and federal) from personal liability for their official actions.

Black Blade (5/16/2000; 0:37:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 30594)
Woops!
Yer right Gandy, Should be May 22, 1998. Its them sticky keys ya know! Then again, coulda been Al senior. ;-)

ViewYesterday's Discussion.

Permission to reprint is hereby granted where the USAGOLD name is cited along with our web address, mailing address and phone number. For electronic reproductions, citing the post heading and the http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/ website address as the source is sufficient.

usagold logo
P.O. Box 460009
Denver, Colorado 80246-0009

1-800-869-5115 (US)
00-800-8720-8720 (EU)

303-399-6759 (Fax)

admin@usagold.com

Office Hours
6:00am - 5:00pm
(U.S. Mountain Time)
Monday - Friday

American Numismatic Association
Member since 1975

Industry Council for Tangible Assets

USAGOLD Centennial Precious Metals is a BBB Accredited Business. Click for the BBB Business Review of this Gold, Silver & Platinum Dealers in Denver CO

Zero Complaints

Tuesday May 22
website support: sitemaster@usagold.com
Site Map - Privacy- Disclaimer
The USAGOLD logo and stylized gold coin pile are trademarks of Michael J. Kosares.
© 1997-2012 Michael J. Kosares / USAGOLD All Rights Reserved