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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/15/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 23:32:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 32438)
Since it seems to be Solomon Weaver monolog hour here tonight...here's a story with a happy ending.
Once uton a pime in a corn funtry there lived a pransom hince.
This pransome hince was planning to have a bancy fall and had invited friends from riles amound...particulary the pich reople.
Now in this same corn funtry there lived a geautiful birl called Rindercella...who wasn't really very rich but the price had heard of her geautifulness and moped to heet her.
The invitation for Rindercella arrived and her mugly other and two sad blisters decided that since they had nice dancy fresses to wear to the bancy fall, that they would go to meet the pransom hince.
Of course, on the night of the ball, Rindercella, having not seen the invitation could not go because all she had to wear were the same old ruddy dags she wore when she flopped the mores and paughterd the sligs. So, in desperation and despair she crank down and shried.
But suddenly, in a siff of wilver smoke, there appeared before her, a gay mudfather, who with a wave of his wagic mand, created a carge loach and wix hight sources, along with the most geautiful drancy fess Rindercella had ever seen. So, with the promise holding only till midnight Rindercella was taken to the bancy fall in spendor and arrived at the the very end of the line.
The pransom hince who had been watching the arriving guests from a widden hindow, immediately understood that this geautiful girl in the magical loach pulled by wix geautiful hight sources, must be none other than Rindercella. He took her hy the band and escorted her into the fallroom, where much to the dismay of Rindercella's oldest sad blister, they manced all night and lell in fuv.
The mid clock struck night and Rindercella spaced down the rairs. But just before she beached the rottom, she stumbled and slopped her dripper.
The next day, the pransom hince went all over the corn funtry lookin for the geautiful birl who had slopped her dripper. He tried it on Rindercella's mugly other and it fidn't dit. He tried it on the two sad blisters and it fidn't dit. He tried it on Rinderella and it fid dit...it was exactly the site rize.
So, the two were married and lived heavenly ever happily.
The storal of the mory is, if you are a geautiful birl going to a bancy fall and want a pransom hince to lell in fuv with you, don't forget to slop your dripper.
Black Blade
(6/15/2000; 23:17:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 32437)
Solomon, Journeyman, Food and Gas, Hmmmm..........
Food and gas, that didn't quite come out right, er, I mean...
Solomon: 200 cans of Pork and Beans, and beer. Why drill for natural gas! ;-) Sounds like an explosive combo. OK, as far as the NG wells are concerned, you might want to check out whether or not you have the mineral rights, etc. so that you can press your position. They may not be legally obligated, but any reputable exploration company will try to be on good terms with the "locals". I don't know where you're located so I can't comment as to the geology or type of gas well. I have friends working in the Powder Basin area of Wyoming drilling in the methane coal seams. There they are dewatering some seams and this has had both good and bad results for the ranchers. There was an article on this a couple of months ago in the WSJ, and a past issue of the AAPG Explorer (American Assoc. of Petroleum Geologists). I also have friends doing the same around Cody, wyoming, in Montana, Utah, and Oklahoma. Each has its own unique geology. Perhaps a local college or university with a geology dept. and a business admin. dept may be of help. These people at these schools are generally open to help the public in these matters. There are similar situations where land owners have been approached by wireless telecom companies to place signal dishes on their property, and some make out rather well. Good luck.
Journeyman: Maybe after we eat my chorizo, Solomon's 200 cans of Pork and Beans, and drink Townies beer, we could trade some NG for.... Oh, never mind. ;-)
Journeyman
(6/15/2000; 23:11:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 32436)
Re: Gas for food @Solomon Weaver, Black Blade
Thanks for the invite Sir Solomon!
Y2K beans?? 200 cans?? Ah, maybe that title should read "gas from food" - - - and we should eat outdoors. ;>
If it gets late, I can bring one of my extra Y2K generators . . .
Regards,
Journeyman
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 23:08:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 32435)
L. Reichard White
Journeyman (6/15/2000; 10:57:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 32381)
Imagine Gold @ALL
--
We can't end the day without someone at the table thanking Jman's friend L. Reichard White for his great conceptual piece on what American might have been had we not outlawed gold....
My question to Mr. White...were you writing about an America which might of happened or one which you dream might still be able to happen? Perhaps both, no?
God Bless your golden dreams...
Poor old Solomon
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 22:50:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 32434)
food for gas
Journeyman
you forgot the food for gas part of the equation....I guess you missed that I had invited Black Blade over for pork and beans...you can come over too...although 200 cans isn't quite IMF scale fare...
Poor old Solomon
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 22:46:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 32433)
natural gas in the backyard...in times like these!!!
I just had an exploration company put a natural gas drilling rig up about 300 yards from my property line. I had been asked to sign "the same contract" that many of the neighbors did....but I told them I was not going to sign quite yet (that was about 18 months ago). The town accessor was kind enough to let me read through all 200-300 contracts and 98% of the folks had signed a boiler plate...a few added in minor clauses...no idea on how many did not sign.
Do any of you resource experts out there know if this company is legally obligated to secure a contract with me before getting gas from under me...or do I in principle have to start waiving some kind of red flag and saying "hey what the hey?".
There have been about 4-5 successful wells in the general region, but I don't believe they have connected them to any grids.....could it be that they simply will sit unproducing for many years? Does the underground connection get drilled too? Or do they have to dig up roads and such???
How rich do some folks get off these stories??? Is it worth losing sleep over?
Poor old Solomon
Journeyman
(6/15/2000; 22:40:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 32432)
More Russian barter @Blackblade, Sierra Madre, ALL
Somewhere I have an even more bizarre barter story from Russia involving concrete power poles from a concrete factory to an electric company somehow involving a porcelin factory and truck dealer. Can't find it so the following will have to do.
"In another sign of the government's crumbling commitment to collect cash, the Kremlin has agreed to let Gazprom pay its multimillion dollar tax bills with food, and Gazprom in turn is set to accept more than $1 billion in food and other goods from Belarus and Ukraine for gas supplies.
The Kremlin and Gazprom settled on the bizarre gas-for-food, food-for-taxes barter chain as a winter of food shortages looms in Russia--where food imports were devastated by the crashes of the ruble and of the banking system, and a poor harvest has diminished domestic food stocks.
The size of the deal is staggering: The state and Gazprom have agreed to accept food payments approaching the scale of a typical loan tranche from the International Monetary Fund.
The agreements reflect the government's growing lenience toward the national gas monopoly as it struggles to collect cash during a period of financial crisis. -Gazprom Will Pay Taxes With Food, Jeanne Whalen, The Moscow Times, SATURDAY, OCTOBER 24, 1998, Front page.
Gazprom is the largest natural gas company in the world.
Regards, J.
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 22:33:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 32431)
Did Pavlow feed his dogs hot dogs...so ask not for whom the bell tolls.
Hey Black Blade
I have 200 cans of y2k brand pork and beans in my basement which you may eat for free if you want to come over after chorizo....and as many 50 lb bags of rice as you are willing to pay the postage on!!!!
Inflation induces charity...even if you don't need it...bring Town Crier and bring the beer.
Poor old Solomon
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 22:28:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 32430)
Beesting and the pitfalls of coinage
Beesting
Those pitfalls to remonitization of silver in a small country are spot on....and many more as well...
In that spirit, I suggested that a private initiative, which did not appear to be supported by the government might be the way to go.
I think the real surge in PM currency is going to happen when the combination happens of:
1. Substancial and Honest vault storage in "a large handful of offshore locations" who
2. Join forces under one system to offer a single international gold and silver depository alliance which
3. Allows the interconversion of gold into any major currency with automatic digital transfer of fiat values to any bank of choice.
4. All of this happening inside of a cryptographically protected system which prevents governments from prying.
The big joke on the system is that once this starts to take up speed, the first large subscribers are going to be executives of the world's CBs...after that the politicians...
Poor old Solomon
Black Blade
(6/15/2000; 22:16:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 32429)
JavaMan, Leigh, and Cavan Man, Hotdogs! Hotdogs!
OK, since we got onto Hotdogs and smaller packages that cost the same (inflation in reverse?). You might just want to try a bit o' ethnic diversity. This July 4th weekend I will be with my Basque buddies chowing down Basque-style chorizo. You will notice that this deceptive sales practice of putting less product into packaging for the same price continues all the time. Look at cans of coffee, candy bars, etc. Now you all have done it! I'm really pissed now...you made me hungry!!! ;-)
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 22:15:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 32428)
Got milk? Milk chocolate?
Galearis (6/15/2000; 20:31:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 32415)
@Cavan Man: Hot dogs
Ah hah! Another sign of convergence between systems. The old Soviet regime used to brag about "NO INFLATION", and yes, they actually kept pricing VERY constant. The inflation was present, however, as the Russian form took the form of reduced product within the packaging. (smile)
----
There is a great little essay from about the late 70's written by Issac Asimov (sp?)about his similar experiences with the infamous Hersheys chocolate bar over his lifespan, anyone remember it???
Also reminds me of a story of a group of about 60 American's who were having a conference in India for about 2 weeks and had consigned a local dairyman to deliver milk daily....on about the 3rd day the Americans accused the dairyman of diluting his milk with water to make a quick profit...something which the dairyman in true continental Indian fashion could fully deny...until the American showed him the little floating device which measured density, and that milk from the market was denser....
Well the humour comes in when on the forth day the milk arrived tasting like riceflour...
Ain't that the way of the world????
Poor old Solomon
L.Harrison
(6/15/2000; 22:14:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 32427)
lamprey_65, leigh
Krause shows a 5 Kroner at .0648 oz AGW.
Mintage 103,000.
My hoard is also secured.
I can only admire my recently acquired beauties.
Black Blade
(6/15/2000; 21:59:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 32426)
Re: Sierra Madre
Just a quick note as I am still working on a project. I decided to poke my nose into the forum for a quick look. I took a quick notice of your comment about Russians reduced to barter. The ultimate in Russian barter was evident when I saw where a Russian tractor manufacturer was ordered to pay up its tax bill or be shut down. The company gathered several of their workers together and they drove several dozen tractors to the tax offices, parked them in front and announced "Here's your tax" and they left them there. The startled Soviet era tax collectors didn't know what to do. It seems that they accepted the tractors as payment in full, as I understand from a friend that they are still producing tractors. I also understand that several months later the rusting tractors were still there.
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 21:50:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 32425)
Sierra Madre...when a "little" country starts to coin silver
Sierra Madre...it was actually Topaz who posted your piece, and our esteemed Town Crier who noticed the name connection...that fellow who notices all the details...(my honest opinion is that he must think about almost nothing other than gold most of the day...and I believe he likes a beer now and then)....me...I usually sit down with an Earl Grey tea (sometimes slipping over to Darjeeling) and get my juices flowing when someone says "silver". Anyway, welcome to our round table...the more you post the more we will understand your golden (or perhaps silver) mind.
Please understand that I am no expert, and that the advice today is really only a brainstorm...also that when politicians are playing with billions of dollars they must rememember that they are playing with other peoples money and have an even higher level of respect for that because if they mess up, citizens of their country could go hungry and worse. But let's dig a little deeper with you here by taking on your question in a little more detail:
Sierra Madre: There is one vital question, which I present to readers of this Forum: suppose the inhabitants of the "small country" accumulate a sizeable amount of silver, and continue to accumulate: to what extent would this actually drive up the price of silver, as the "market" is deprived of the expected supply of silver, due to its new unexpected use as a currency to be "hoarded" or saved (which is the same thing)?
Solomon Weaver: Several questions mixed in together...let's work through this in steps. Since you did not tell us "which country" is considering this, I will create a hypothetical one.
1. Let us assume that this country has approximately 30 million citizens. The average official GDP per capita is $10,000 USD per year, but there is a subset of 5 million upper class citizens who have incomes over $25,000 per year. Let us further assume that due to frequent changes in government and banking and trade regulations, the rather volatile local currency works primarily as a business currency, but people are afraid to save long term in the currency, so those who are wealthy tend to send their profits overseas...and local investments suffer. The dollar (in bill format for the poorer and in bank account format for the wealthier) is the primary currency used for savings.
2. The local politicians recognize that it is almost impossible for such a small country to create a stable money and so they recognize that they need to have a second form of money and are considering minting silver coins and feel that the "local pricing" of the governments paper in silver (published daily and determined in a local free market which does not allow naked short selling and all that crap) is a decent way to help calibrate the weakness or strength of the local currency.
3. You must also realize that when you use the word accumulate, that you must temper it with it's partner word, circulate. You see, under the assumption that this country does not produce enough silver to supply its own monetary program, this means they will have to import silver, which means they will import a product which "if hoarded" in vaults for safe keeping is not able to be used to circulate in the economy (and circulation is 9/10 of wealth creation)....so, the purpose of having a coin is to make a system which allow both accumulation (that little tin box) and circulation (paying for a doctor visit, or buying a home or automobile, etc.)....wouldn't it seem that someone who was able to accumulate a fair amount of silver coin to save for a long awaited day should convert the coin to gold coin?...so as done in the USA until 1933...silver for circulation and small caches, gold for wealth storage and large transactions.
4. To estimate the effect of your program on the world price of silver, you would need to know the number of ounces which will be minted and how rapidly the minting will take place (may depend on the capital cost of coin stamping machines). Let us just assume that based on the current price of silver of about $5/oz, you estimate that the system should have about 100 ounces ($500) for each of the 5 million wealthy people (for saving) and about 10 ounces ($50) for each of the other 25 million not as wealthy people (also for saving)...in addition we would like to have another 10 ounces per person for "circulation"...for convenience, all silver coins will be minted in 1/10 ounce format. The minting will go for 5 years. The entire program calls for about 1 billion ounces to be minted...so, 200 million ounces per year. The current worldwide production of silver is about 500-600 million ounces and currently running at a deficit of 100-200 million ounces.
So, can you perhaps believe that even the "news" that a 1 billion ounce mintage was planned seriously by a country would drive the price of silver up???
The way that I see it, if one country decides to start this and is taken seriously enough that others take similar efforts (which also means gold being there in a similar way), then the price of silver will rise quite a bit (which means the 30 million person country may reduce the minting program to 1/4 or even 1/10 the number of ounces of that discussed above. If the Another Scenario comes into play full force (free gold rising and dollar falling) then the "dollar face value/cost" of an ounce of silver may be something like what an ounce of gold is today today.
Sierra Madre: The next question is equally important: if the price rises ever so slightly, this will encourage more hoarding (saving) and the process will be reinforced. The price going upwards until the population's appetite for silver is quenched - at who knows what level.
Solomon: As the price rises, the cost to continue saving (a regular number of ounces) rises, so less ounces are saved...and depending upon the expectation of how high the price move was and how it can stay, there will always be those who cash out for another asset.
Sierra Madre: Given the circumstances we have mentioned: will the new monetary use being given to silver by the population of this "small country" actually be the determining, marginal factor that sets the price? In this case, the price is no longer determined in New York, but in "the small country" which is using silver as currency.
Solomon: Probably just wishful thinking!!! Unless the "little country" had a very valuable product to export, which the entire world needed, and had an almost insatiable appetite for silver such that they sucked up all the surplus the world could make. (Sound like Arabs and gold???) What I should mention is that if this little country has domestic silver production, they might make an interesting go at keeping the silver in their country (by promoting coinage - like Americans promoted Chrysler when Toyota and Honda took the car market by storm), which at the same time will take it off the world market (if this country happens to be one of the worlds largest silver producers, then they could begin to define the price)...this would have the effect of holding the asset domestically until a time when at a much higher price, it may then be exported generating higher income. (Oh by the way, we better hope that this country doesn't have a big debt with the IMF or Worldbank, or owe the G-7 some favors for past "bailouts").....if so, the mintage program should be done with little fanfare....and perhaps best by a private corporation. Perhaps even best if it looks like this corporation is actually being sued by the government...
Sierra Madre: Of course, one cannot underestimate the consequences of incurring the ill will of the US Establishment. (Solomon: Aw c'mon, what can a little country buying a couple of billion dollars worth of silver really mean to a big country like the USA with a GDP of $7 trillion? - at least this arguement is used in comparing derivative exposure)
Sierra Madre: But anyhow, it would appear to be very much in the interest of the population of the "small country" to own some savings in the form of silver, which though it can have its ups and downs, will eternally keep SOME value. However far the project of the "small country" can go, ANY silver in the hands of its people, is an advantage - look at the poor Russians reduced to primitive barter!
Solomon: Agree agree....is silver ownership currently outlawed in this little country? No? So isn't it really the people who need to be convinced (or reminded)?
Sierra Madre: The best news: there is at least one small country thinking this matter over carefully.
Solomon: Hope they try!!!
The bad news is that as much as we may dream about it, there is absolutely no way in heaven or hell that there is anywhere near enough silver to have it remonitized in any grand fashion, and if it were, there would be a serious malinvestment in silver mining for the next ten years which would lead to un-needed environmental destruction, and eventually a future glut of silver...volatility all the way along....
As much as I like silver as an "investment" today, I see the massive pool of gold (and the higher cost/difficulty of getting more out of the ground) as a much nicer medium for real monetary and wealth storage functions.
Silver is like a little rocket with a 5 pound payload...can rise fast but t'aint much when you get to the moon...gold is like a massive space launch rocket with a 50 ton payload, takes longer to get it there but worth more when you arrive.
The gold short position (leased gold) is like an atom bomb...whereas the silver short position is like a dynamite keg...anyone close to either explosion is in trouble...but a total default in silver (if it doesn't cause gold to run) is still fully manageable without a derivative banking crisis. Thus, it continues to be my expectation that silver will make the big run-up well before gold does...let's at least say that silver will reach $50 long before gold reaches $3000. And when that happens, sell silver and buy gold, because gold is real money and it ain't gonna fall back fast if it sees $3000.
-------
By the way, I've noticed that my favorite little silver company (PAAS) has been trading in an extremely tight little range of $3.6 to 3.8 for many weeks on consistent volume of about 40,000 shares per day...my sense is that there is a "support buyer" there. It certainly doesn't seem like any "traders" are messing around with them.
And Farfel, I loved your "structured rant" to faceless gold executive....one faceless analyst today seemed to think that "the logical next step" in the consolidation game is for Newmont and Barrick to join up!!!! Don't these analysts realize that all it would take would be a sustained rise in the POG to the $350-375 range (i.e. parity with true long term production costs) and a company like Newmont would double in market cap. Shouldn't they consider that the generally low market cap of gold majors is related to an artificially depressed profit structure???? Depending on the day and quarter, Newmont's P/E ratio is near 50...quite above the 10-15 which seems normal for the sector.....but this is because Newmont continues to carry themselves forward believing that someday gold will come back. It doesn't take rocket science to calculate that a company producing 4 million unhedged ounces a year getting ONLY $25 an ounce more on the spot market, meaning a $100 million profit increase, if STILL trading with a P/E of 50 will suddenly look a little bigger...maybe even big enough to attract those "momentum" fellows.
Good night gold and silver bugs....
Our toddler seems restless....
Poor old Solomon
beesting
(6/15/2000; 21:50:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 32424)
Lamprey_65 Help!
Your post:
A 1920 Swedish Krona ("Kronor" on the coin). I'm looking for the exact gold content on this
item...very small coin, so believe it to be less than 1/10 ounce -- anyone know?
I have a World Coins book 1999 edition and the only thing I can find minted in 1920(Swedish) is bronze or bronze-nickel.
However there is a Gold coin minted in 1901 and 1902:
8.9606g,.900GOLD, .2593 oz agw (20 Kronor)
Sorry I can't help any more than that....beesting
Hill Billy Mitchell
(6/15/2000; 21:40:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 32423)
The lie
@ Aristotle and Penny
What was the lie?
ORO will clear this up I am sure. It was a confusing statement and such a strong indictment that it must be cleared up or the whole post goes up in smoke.
I am already on the limb you, Aristotle, so wisely choose to avoid.
I may have really misread the whole nature of what ORO meant by the "lie" that he accused ANOTHER of selling .
His indictment: "That ANOTHER has managed to sell governments (and I assume this extends to banks as well) the same lie they sell the public is quite an achievement."
Aristotle's question in the form of a statement, "I am wanting to know, in ORO's words, what is the "lie" that the banks (and/or govt) have sold the people."
Penny says, "I believe when ORO says "they" in the line you question, that he means the lie "the banks and governments" sell the public. I had the same question in my mind."
I, HBM, am on the limb already. Where was I coming from?:
I understood the lie to be delineated in ORO's point # 2, "that debt money exchange media are useful for the conduct of business, but the 3% that goes into gold must not be manipulated by government or by banking."
The wording was atrocious yet I thought I was able to get the gist of what ORO was saying by assuming that he was being facetious, and really meant that ANOTHER had not in any way managed to sell the" lie" to the partners in crime (governments and banks). I still think that may have been what he was saying; however I understood that he also meant, although the wording was screwy, that ANOTHER had successfully sold the "lie" to the unsuspecting public. Now I begin to doubt my "grabbing for straws", presumption, and lean toward the fact that he really did mean that the banks and government in partnership had sold the public the lie that the 3% must not be manipulated, meaning that the banks and government have denied all along that the are not, either separately or in cahoots with each other, guilty of manipulating the 3% (gold).
If this be the case, then he was being facetious by his phrase "quite an achievement" concluding that the banks and governments, who had sold the lie to the public (knowing it to be a lie) and could not possibly be fooled into thinking that it was the truth, assertions by ANOTHER to the contrary.
ORO, was the "lie" you were referring to that the "3% (gold) must not be manipulated? If not please disregard my prior post which was meaningless if this point was misunderstood by me.
HBM
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 21:31:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 32422)
Aristotle (my personal favorite door mat)
Just a few minutes ago, I was watching Mary Poppins with my children. I must admit, that movie and others like it (e.g. Sound of Music, etc.) are some of my favorites. Ah, those were the days my friend. Sometime I am smote with tears recalling those "days my friend". The hollywood fare certainly has devolved wouldn't you agree? Can we honestly say the cinematic art has made progress and added value to the human condition when so much filth comes out of the entertainment industry today? It must be we've lowered our standards; we willingly accept less, MUCH LESS than the very best: what is good and just; proper, moral, ethical and right; WHAT IS VIRTUOUS AND ENLIGHTENING! So it goes with currencies and monetary instruments; where once we lived in a world where precious metals were universally recognized as the secular and ultimate form of true wealth, today, the mere discussion of gold and silver in the context of monetary history is anathema to so many and frankly, a very boring topic of conversation at sports bars. How soon we forget yes?
IMHO, "the lie" is that fiat currencies possess any value whatsoever and any ability to denominate said value or intrinsic worth either in transaction context or, as even a temporary store of wealth.
As a kindred door mat (For I like you am tapped out after one year. Although unlike you good Sir Knight, I was tapped out to begin with and my overall effort at this table round has been quite marginal.), I pose another (no pun) question for general discussion:
Truly, what is the objective of the Another "program"?
1. Break the $USD hegemony; protection of regional economic and financfial interests?
2. Free the POG from $USD fixing to benefit large and influential holders of "the yellow"?
3. Supply a fiat monetary product that ME OIL will accept?
4. Create a platform from which the rest of humanity can attempt catch up with the prosperity enjoyed by US citizens.
5. "Freegold" will encourage monetary discipline and benefit mankind as a low POG in any given fiat currency will reflect favorably upon that fiat currency? Note: The Euro is not backed by gold; that assertion is laughable in my opinion. Rather, the lower EURO POG as compared to the $USD for example, will convey a perception of value in the EURO to the masses. This of course is smoke and mirrors. The EURO and the $USD are fruits of the same tree. By restoring gold as the ultimate yardstick by which all monetary policy should be evaluated, any fiat dollar proxy with less (debt) baggage and less aggregate supply will appear to have more value. So then, the EURO appears to be in the right place at the right ime.
"The lie" is that fiat currrencies possess ANY VAlUE.
But, "wait a while" as my Uncle Ray would say (he a student of Dodd @ Columbia). It is time for a reality check. Governments and the financial interests that support them play the fiat game for mutual advantage. They will not relinquish their printing presses. "The power of the press" still reigns.
So then, is half a loaf better than none? "We shall see".
Thank you all for reading this far and for tolerating my obvious education deficit order condition :).....CM
Cavan Man
beesting
(6/15/2000; 21:20:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 32421)
Silver(or Gold) Circulation in a Small Country.
Much good discussion on this topic and maybe Aristotle are resident banking expert could enlighten the rest of us with his knowledge of banking. Good to see you back, Sir Aristotle!
Sierra Madre,Rich Young Solomon, TC, and all;
For quite a long time(years) I too have thought a small country could break away from the rest of the world, and start their own independent Silver or Gold(Real Money)based system. It really seems possible. However, having traveled recently to a very few independant Nations, these are some of the obstacles:
There may now be over 200 Central Banks in the world(SIR Holtzmans figure). The Central Banks regulate All(Legal)banking activity in the country they are located in.The CB banking employees(top echelon)have been schooled in Washington D.C. by the IMF/World Bank school of thought(noted way back in USAGOLD forum archives).
All legal banks have to have a Charter(Legal document spelling out intentions of proposed bank) approved by a Central Bank or in the U.S. a State regulating agency, this includes most Credit Unions. Also a very high license fee is usually required(Sometimes Millions of U.S.dollars.)
Many if not all of these small countries get suckered into obtaining international loans, for many, what seem to be worthwhile causes(infrastructure-sewers,water mains,paved roads, whatever the politicians of the country think the people need.) Now, once a country has established international debt status, it is almost impossible to break away from using fiat(paper)money. You see,as Sir Journeyman rightfully points out,paper money can be and is TAXED,TAXED,TAXED! To pay local and international debt.
Yes, a small area of a small Country could use Silver or Gold or whatever is tradeable for locally produced products or services, but what happens when someone wants a product not produced locally(a pen,writing paper,oil products, you name it) The local Government thru the local Central Bank controls ALL imports(and exports)and in some of the countries I visited sets a retail price on all imported items!Paper money is required to buy these products legally.
The question is, will some country break away from this worldwide debt trap, and be able to achive a thriving economy over a period of time? I don't know!
We do know, thanks to the internet,the Mid-East region, India, Pakistan,Thailand, and maybe others, already have a thriving underground Gold based monetary system.Will other countries follow their lead? Could the U.S. ever hope to establish an underground metalic economy? We watch together!
Thanks for reading....beesting.
JavaMan
(6/15/2000; 20:53:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 32420)
Galearis...
I think I'll save the turkey for Thanksgiving.
JavaMan
(6/15/2000; 20:51:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 32419)
Cavan Man...
The things one can learn at this forum...
Thanks for the tip.
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 20:48:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 32418)
JavaMan
Try Kosher franks by Hebrew National or another (no pun) kosher food processor. They are the best!
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 20:44:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 32417)
Galearis
I'm not sure about the reference to your last post. Perhaps you have me confused with another poster or perhaps I am confused?
Regarding "less in the package" for the same price = hidden inflation. I am aware of a certain dog food marketer that went from a 10# bag to an 8# bag in recent years while maintaining the same selling price--you're right!
JavaMan
(6/15/2000; 20:31:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 32416)
Hi Leigh,
Yeah, they're the same size prior to cooking as they used to be and remember, "they haven't changed the recipe." I'm aware that, historically, some companies put stuff in slightly smaller cans for the same price, rather than raising the price so it looks to me like ball park brands is simply replacing the meat with something that cooks away. Where's the beef???!!!
Oh yeah, can you be more specific on where those coins are? (smile)
Galearis
(6/15/2000; 20:31:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 32415)
@Cavan Man: Hot dogs
Ah hah! Another sign of convergence between systems. The old Soviet regime used to brag about "NO INFLATION", and yes, they actually kept pricing VERY constant. The inflation was present, however, as the Russian form took the form of reduced product within the packaging. (smile)
Try a turkey dog. They taste better anyway.
Leigh
(6/15/2000; 20:22:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 32414)
lamprey_65 and JavaMan
Lamprey, what a pleasant way to spend an evening! My poor coins (except a few) are buried under the cold, dark ground several states away. I miss them!
JavaMan, are you sure they're making the hot dogs the same size as before? Some unscrupulous companies are now putting smaller amounts of food in their packages.
lamprey_65
(6/15/2000; 20:15:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 32413)
Help!
I'm taking inventory of my gold and silver coins tonight and am stumped on one coin...
A 1920 Swedish Krona ("Kronor" on the coin). I'm looking for the exact gold content on this item...very small coin, so believe it to be less than 1/10 ounce -- anyone know?
JavaMan
(6/15/2000; 20:14:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 32412)
Leigh...
I had a similar experience for Mother's day when I bought two cards for the lovely mothers in my life, my wife and my mom. $8.00 plus tax! I looked at the clerk and stated that he must have scanned the cards incorrectly. He just looked at me like I was some kind of nut. If they get any more expensive, "they" will become the gift! Actually, I send E-Greetings now. Like the Hooters tee shirts say..."tacky, yet unrefined".
But my latest inflation rant concerns the good people at ball park brands, a subsidiary of SaraLee. A couple of weeks ago, we had some ball park brand all-beef hotdogs for dinner and they shrunk so much after being cooked that my initial reaction when I saw them was my wife had cut them in half prior to cooking them! We have had them several times since then, (notice how we eat high on the hog) with the same results.
Well, ball park brands all-beef hot dogs have been my brand of choice for years so I was really miffed, and, in looking at the package wrapper, I noticed their web site so I fired off a nasty gram to customer service. I explained my dissatisfaction and, among other things, pointed out that they will have to change their slogan as their hotdogs no longer "plump when you cook ‘em." Here is their response:
[Thank you for taking the time to E-Mail us about your recent dissatisfaction
with our Ball Park Beef Franks. Your interest in bringing the problem to our
attention is appreciated. We have not changed our recipe, therefor I am
concerned with your complaint and have forwarded it to our Quality Control
Department.
To prove to you that you can depend on the quality of our products, I will mail
you coupons to replace the product you found unsatisfactory.
We hope you will continue to be our valued customer and that our products will
meet your fullest expectations.
Sincerely,
Renee Esch Schultz
Consumer Affairs Coordinator]
My reaction...what a crock. I suspect the fact of the matter is that Ms Schultz simply isn't "in the loop" on such decisions, that way, her denials will sound all the more sincere because she actually believes what she is saying.
When the effects of inflation shows up in hot dogs, you can believe its everywhere, except in the price of gold, and I don't think its going to get better any time soon.
Aristotle
(6/15/2000; 19:55:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 32411)
Yep, precisely that, Penny
I am wanting to know, in ORO's words, what is the "lie" that the banks (and/or govt) have sold the people. His answer could prove enlightening, and may help bridge the gap between our thoughts. Thank you for ensuring that I expressed my question more clearly. I think I like this door mat business already, 'cause its been a long time since I've seen you post.
Gold. Get you some. ---Aristotle
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 19:50:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 32410)
Sierra Madre
Sir:
The "political will" FOA speaks of to describe the objective of leaving the dollar orbit is the very same political will a small country must demonstrate in the manner suggested. The achilles heel appears to be the precious metal complex. The leverage you seek; it is there. Better still, your timing is excellent!
Make your luck!
Hektor
(6/15/2000; 19:38:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 32409)
John Doe
Thanks for your link to that webpage. It is very useful. Specifically what they said about the Sarah Brady quote is this:
"This phony quote is often cited as a statement from Sarah Brady, Chairman, HCI, to Howard Metzenbaum, The National Educator, January, 1994, Page 3. "Sarah" and "Metzenbaum" are sometimes misspelled as "Sara" and "Metzanbaum" on the Internet.
There are several problems with this quote, including the fact that the common citation does not check out."
"...the common citation does not check out." I assume that means noone else can find it either.
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 19:37:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 32408)
Back to the future...digital gold banking....errrr..not quite banking.
Solomon Weaver (6/14/2000; 21:06:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 32347)
a digital gold banking dream
I have this wierd vision...so folks, help give me a reality check.
---
Henri (6/15/2000; 10:28:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 32377)
Solomon Weaver Msg 32347
What you have described is not a bank and therefore should not have to subscribe to "banking " regs. e-gold is such a system but without the cards. A "bank" practices fractional reserve lending.
---
Thanks Henri for your reply to my gold banking question...since it was posted at the end of a day..perhaps some missed it....my main wish would be to have the option to use my fiat savings to buy any increment of gold, have it stored for me in a safe vault, and be able to spend any amount of it simply by presenting a debit card (needing pin number) where the recipient of the funds does not need to know that my assets were held in gold, and my gold is "preferentially sold" to another member of my club who is on the waiting list to "buy" gold (minimize transaction costs).
Does anyone know of this being done...in the USA???
Poor old Solomon
Penny Nichols
(6/15/2000; 19:25:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 32407)
ORO' beatiful Post
Aristotle
I believe when ORO says "they" in the line you question, that he means the lie "the banks and goverments" sell the public. I had the same question in my mind.
Penny Nichols
Aristotle
(6/15/2000; 19:09:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 32406)
Let's just dive right into this thing
I can't begin to say how much I've enjoyed and benefited from Trail Guide's ongoing commentary. Mighty among them were the latest two offerings to the forum on Tuesday--Trail Guide (06/13/00; 15:14:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 32285 and #: 32288). Good Sir, I hope your latest travels are speedy, safe, and fruitful, and that you return with good news to share from abroad.
And while we've got FOA/Trail Guide cutting a broad clear path over hill and dale, I see we've also had the likes of Hill Billy Mitchell, Black Blade, Journeyman, Henri (and plenty of others, but you get the point) offering up good fare at the Round Table. And looking down, I see Aragorn's good spadework putting in a solid foundation, while looking up reveals TownCrier's rooftop descriptions of newsworthy events. It makes me pause to think, what worthwhile role is left for ol' Aristotle? And then it dawned on me. Right there at my feet was the answer...I can be the designated door mat. I've seen too many good thoughts and significant news get tossed upon the Table with nary a comment or discussion. Maybe some of the many visitors are too shy to challenge the regulars, and very often the regulars are too caught up pursuing their own train of thought to be troubled with what another person might be saying--with no offense meant at all. Kinda like two guys sitting at the same table in a sports bar; one watches a basketball game while the other is intent upon the baseball game, each taking little heed of the other's occasional outburts of cheers or jeers.
So, in an attempt to entice new "sports fans" into the bar, and hopefully thereby gain new insights into the "team to beat," I shall be the door mat encouraging everyone to feel free to wipe their shoes on me and to come on in. I recall a post where Aragorn described by posts as "thinking out loud." In all candor, that seems to be a more fitting eulogy, 'cause I'm feeling pretty tapped out, having "thought out loud" for more than a year now. What is there left to say? That is to say, MY chapter is written, barring new inspiration. Hence, my new role as door mat. I'll try to coax fresh dirt out of everyone ELSE for a change.
On that note, I'm putting together some comments for ORO in regard to yesterday's ORO (06/14/00; 12:09:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 32319). But before I get too far out on my own limb of speculation/interpretation, I would be grateful for an elaboration on the nature of this statement:
"That ANOTHER has managed to sell governments (and I assume this extends to banks as well) the same lie they sell the public is quite an achievement."
Some days I'm just plain slow, so please forgive me. To fend off any interpretive error, as you see it, what PRECISELY is this "lie" that has been sold to the public, and now to the govts/banks? Thanks in advance.
Gold. Wipe your feet, then get you some. ---Aristotle
R Powell
(6/15/2000; 18:53:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 32405)
Hoarding
Sierra Madre, If the "hoarding" of silver will raise the POS in paper currency, then by all means, let us join Mr Buffet and Let the hoarding begin! By the way, I'll be looking for a small country for my retirement years. Does your country have a warm climate?
Chris Powell
(6/15/2000; 18:35:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 32404)
Gun control Nazis
John Doe, thank you for that attribution
on that Hitler quotation. Of course the
whole Nazi experience in Europe may be
history's biggest lesson about the
necessity of private gun ownership by
citizens. If only every Jew in Europe
had met the Gestapo at the door with
Colt .45, or even a Walther PPK, instead
of letting themselves be herded off to
slaughter like sheep....
Sierra Madre
(6/15/2000; 16:57:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 32403)
Solomon Weaver
Sir:
I am the same Sierra Madre that posted an article on MexDollars at another site, and now find it reproduced on USAgold.com. I am pleased that someone thought it worth pointing out. Thank you!
Your suggestions regarding tactics for reintroduction of silver to circulation "in a small country" are intelligent, and will be saved for possible future application.
There is one vital question, which I present to readers of this Forum: suppose the inhabitants of the "small country" accumulate a sizeable amount of silver, and continue to accumulate: to what extent would this actually drive up the price of silver, as the "market" is deprived of the expected supply of silver, due to its new unexpected use as a currency to be "hoarded" or saved (which is the same thing)?
The next question is equally important: if the price rises ever so slightly, this will encourage more hoarding (saving) and the process will be reinforced. The price going upwards until the population's appetite for silver is quenched - at who knows what level.
Given the circumstances we have mentioned: will the new monetary use being given to silver by the population of this "small country" actually be the determining, marginal factor that sets the price? In this case, the price is no longer determined in New York, but in "the small country" which is using silver as currency.
Of course, one cannot underestimate the consequences of incurring the ill will of the US Establishment. But anyhow, it would appear to be very much in the interest of the population of the "small country" to own some savings in the form of silver, which though it can have its ups and downs, will eternally keep SOME value. However far the project of the "small country" can go, ANY silver in the hands of its people, is an advantage - look at the poor Russians reduced to primitive barter!
The best news: there is at least one small country thinking this matter over carefully.
John Doe
(6/15/2000; 16:05:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 32402)
Veracity
http://www.ccrkba.org/BogusQuotesAntiGunners.html
Hektor,
That quote is supposedly on page 3 of NE. Was it pulled in a later printing or did it ever really exist? If false, where did it originate, who originated it and why? The above link explores the possibility that some of these quotes may well be false (or at least the sources don't hold up). Perhaps some of this stuff is planted to discredit, disinform, and defame?
The truth, a tiny island in a sea of lies...
Hill Billy Mitchell
(6/15/2000; 15:55:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 32401)
Official release
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/releases/H15/update/
Official: Federal Reserve Statistical Release
Release Date: June 15, 2000
Rates for Wednesday, June 14, 2000
Federal funds 6.54
Treasury constant maturities:
3-month 5.82
10-year 6.06
20-year 6.25
30-year 5.91
upside-down spread FF vs long bond = (63.%)
SHIFTY
(6/15/2000; 15:52:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 32400)
NY Ponzi
Nasdaq 3,845.74 + Dow 10,714.82 = 14,714.82 divide by 2 = 7,280.28 Ponzi
Up 37.60 ponzi points
Clint H
(6/15/2000; 15:52:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 32399)
Farfel post at Gold Eagle
A Letter to a Gold Producer: WHAT I DO NOT APPRECIATE!
(FARFEL) Jun 15, 13:54
This morning, I awoke to receive an E-MAIL from an investor relations rep at a senior gold producer.
Essentially, the letter scolded me for issuing a variety of ultimatums and legal threats against the management of the company for what I perceive as a breach of fiduciary duty to the shareholders.
The investor relations rep's letter began by stating, "I do not appreciate..." then continued with the same old, same old rationalizations and justifications for the dismal share price.
Here is my response and I would suggest that if it resonates with any other gold mining shareholders out there, then they should send copies (or variations of the following letter) to the appropriate parties.
--------------------------------------------------
Mr. ___________:
Please relay the contents of this letter to Messrs. _________
In response to your E-MAIL, let me state what I do NOT appreciate:
1) I do NOT appreciate sitting on a huge pile of non-performing, no-dividend ________ stock (down some 80% since initial purchase price) today whilst a
bunch of overpaid managers sit inside their plush offices, slowly but steadily destroying all common shareholder value.
2) I do NOT appreciate the inveterate condescension that gold producer managements show toward their own shareholders whilst our equity deteriorates
to zero.
3) I do NOT appreciate gold producer managements who portray their own shareholders as "goldbug wackos" and ignore every single piece of good advice provided over the past decade by those same shareholders who
collectively have a better ability "to see the forest for the trees."
4) I do NOT appreciate gold producer managements who feel greater rapport and affinity for bulllion bank counterparties (who placed them in dire financial
predicaments today) than they feel for their own shareholders.
5) I do NOT appreciate holding a supposedly UNHEDGED gold stock for several long years in the hopes of realizing a 3:1 appreciation of the stock to a
surging gold price, only to watch in horror as the same gold producer management abruptly hedges a hefty percentage of its annual production whilst declaring
their HOPES of hedging even more production.
6) I do NOT appreciate gold producer managements who fail to support OPENLY and ACTIVELY the only effective lobby group in the industry, namely GATA.
7) I do NOT appreciate gold producer managements who fail to understand that CONSOLIDATION is the only hope for survival and ultimate prosperity in view of
the real threat emanating from the severely gold short bullion banks, instead same gold producer managments preferring to protect their own personal fiefdoms, perks, and independence even as their companies fall into
complete worthlessness.
8) I do NOT appreciate gold producer managements who continuously act like passive victims and blame their companies' misfortunes solely on the falling gold price rather than taking active countermeasures to assume control over their own destinies rather than leave them in the hands of bullion/central banks.
9) I do NOT appreciate gold producer managements who find solace and comfort in outperforming a collection of severely underperforming companies in the S & P GOLD group, most of which are on the brink of bankruptcy.
10) I do NOT appreciate gold producer investor relations
representatives who fail to respond to most of my past correspondence, then only responding AFTER
receiving legal ultimatums.
Finally, I want to understand one thing: why is it such a crime for shareholders in a gold producer to issue what you call "threats" to management demanding they do something about the rotten share price....yet somehow it is perfectly acceptable in your parochial world for bullion banks to threaten all variety of dire consequences to gold producers if they do NOT hedge their production? Please explain why one "threat" is entirely
unacceptable whilst the other is perfectly fine?
Why do gold producers continually see their own shareholders as the enemy and the bullion banks who have placed gold producers in de facto bankruptcy as "the
good guys?"
It is my perception that, except for no more than three or four gold producers, ALL North American producers have hedged fairly hefty chunks of their annual gold production. That they have done so can only be a result of bullion bank influence and the stranglehold they have over the gold producers. No doubt they exert this influence because North American gold producers (with
the notable exception of Barrick Gold) are extremely weak in both macro-economic and financial analysis and very susceptible to bullion bank financial advice/influence.
I say this and I say it again: take control of your own destinies ASAP before the extremely gold short bullion bank cartel destroys your entire industry and those unfortunate shareholders who naively placed their trust in you to enhance shareholder value. If you do not take counteractive measures shortly, then shareholders have no other recourse but to mount summary derivative class action litigation against management for breach of fiduciary duty.
--------------------------------------------------
And that is it in a nutshell.
Thanks
F*
Hill Billy Mitchell
(6/15/2000; 15:47:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 32398)
ORO is the high plains drifter
Re: ORO # 32319 & # 32320
The following summarizes my take on the first segment of the above referenced posts:
ORO has come to the following conclusions concerning the view Another/FOA presents:
1) It is a philosophy outside the umbrella of generally accepted monetary and economic understanding
2) It is a sales job purporting a lie which has been swallowed by the public but not by the governments nor the governments partners, the banks
3) True profits (roughly averaging 3%) are never expended nor invested, but rather are always parked in physical gold and physical rarities
4) 97 % of the Gross International Product (let's call it the GIP) can be transacted in paper and the only purpose for gold is that of permanently harboring profits. Were there no profit motive there would be no need whatever for gold.
5) Thus the philosophy of ANOTHER--that the presumed 3% that goes into gold must not be manipulated by government or banking, is flawed due to the fact that business will cease if government and banking are not allowed to manipulate the value of the stored profits.
I must cut in here and make some observations. If this whole "philosophy of ORO's is to be digested it must be digested in morsels, otherwise the "motive gets separated from the conduct" of the discussion. If this "high plains" drifter guns me down it will only be because he is better at shooting from the hip than I shoot.
Alas, I offer a few comments upon this first section:
1) Generally accepted monetary and economic principles differ not from generally accepted accounting principles in that they are constantly being changed by those who would like to sell something
2) I doubt that ANOTHER is trying to sell something, especially to governments and banks
3) I give ANOTHER the benefit of the doubt concerning what he/she has to offer. I assume that the offering is a theory rather than a philosophy and as such, the theory is an honest attempt to illuminate real world goings on rather than an outright lie
4) The argument to discredit ANOTHER's philosophy, theory, view (whatever one call's it) hinges on a premise without an iota evidence to support it--that all profits are stored in gold and rarities and never expended nor invested. {Question- ORO, why does a catch all thingy like rarities need to be included in this premise? It casts a shadow on the whole concept.}
5) If gold were non-existent the profit motive would still exist. Something less perfect than gold would be used for storing wealth if necessary but nothing can replace the profit motive. The profit motive has to do with power and control (in this context at least) and the general nature of man perpetuates the profit motive; therefore business will always be conducted.
I conclude that there is no justification for fiat paper--the sales job comes from the government and banking partnerships--it is their lie and their achievement, for the public has bought it.
The profit motive of course is the central issue. What you have offered up is of the highest value to me not because you have backed it up with empirical evidence but because you have stimulated by thinking and forced me to scrape the inside walls of my mind in an attempt to discover any fallacious arguments which reside there.
What is really going on? War is going on. The "high plain" upon which this battle is fought is not physical. It is fiat. Yet no one dare enter upon that plain without high-powered weaponry and ammo, "GOLD".
ANOTHER has been about the business of informing us as to this world war from his/her view or theory. He/she does not offer a philosophy as such. I do not buy all that he/she has to say. I do enjoy the gentlemanly or lady/like way in which he/she presents it. It stimulates my thinking. On second thought I guess I rather enjoy your reckless abandon and "fist in the air" approach, for I must admit that nothing I have ever read, apart from the Holy Word of Almighty God, has ever stimulated my thinking like what you have written with the above referenced posts and that includes the writings of ANOTHER.
For my part this alone is reason enough to have for what you have written be enshrined in the Hall of Fame.
I expect that the bull market in metals will be long gone before we at this forum are finished with this.
ANOTHER, if you live please come to your own defense. If you cannot go up against this ORO, no one can.
More to follow if I do not lose my posting privileges.
Regards,
HBM
Solomon Weaver
(6/15/2000; 15:25:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 32397)
Ahhhh Sierra Madre....a man/woman after my own heart.
Sierra Madre (6/15/2000; 11:03:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 32382)
Best medicine for small country
Hello totalamateur!
The best medicine for a small country is to place pure silver ounces with no face value in the hands of the people.
------------
If you have been around USAGold for a while you will know that my oft repeated slogan is "silver is the poor man's gold".
We have also had a kind of low level debate going on about how much above ground silver their is right now.....the yearly silver survey of "reported and estimated" reserves is about 200-300 million ounces (which is not much more than a single year's deficit in the mid and late 90s). When you add in the amount of silver in coin, bar, and old silverware that might come back into be melted if prices went up, then a very generous estimate might be 1 billion ounces. Jason Happy long ago seemed to think that the number might be as high as 4 billion ounces.
When we stop and consider that the amount of above ground gold is only about 4-5 billion ounces, we come to the almost shocking conclusion that silver is actually more rare than gold (since almost nobody is keeping it around).
And a whole lot of the modern technologies that the developing world wants (photography, electronics, communications, etc. like to use up silver).
Another thing to remember is that almost 70% of the worlds newly mined silver is recovered as a side product in operations with much larger cash flow derived from copper, nickle, zinc, and lead...which implies that many of these companies would have a hard time doubling silver output without increasing the lesser metal output at the same time.
Although I am very bullish on silver in the short term, 2-5 years, I am not sure that for a small country that the value of silver will be stable enough to serve as a wealth storage for the general public, since it may go through some very dramatic up and down swings......in addition, as long as the paper trading game is still in force, it will be much easier for short sellers to play with the price.
So, my personal advice (modifying yours, but with the complete warning of caveat emptor):
A mid sized country with say a $10 billion USD surplus above desired reserves should use off market methods to purchase a core of silver bullion of 100 million ounces. About $500-800 million, and buy about 500 tons of gold. Once they have the core, they should make an announcement to the world that they are going to introduce a silver coinage to their people (encouraging them to trade in those dollars under their mattresses for the newly minted 1 ounce silver coins). They should then step into the physical markets, announcing their intentions to "buy" a "minimum" of $10 billion worth of silver over the next five years to support the mintage. (If the Swiss can announce the sale of 1200 tons of gold with a current par value of $12 billion over the next five years, why can't a small country do the same in their intentions to buy a PM???). Then, with an agressive minting program in place, this country can "publish" to the world the massive amount of dollar profits which their minting program is generating by the rising silver prices, and tell the world that the plan is to reinvest all of the excess revenue into additional silver purchases until the demand for silver coinage is satisfied locally....and at the same time, they can point out how unexpectedly popular their minting program is in that it has generated a worldwide demand for their coins, especially because they introduced technology which let them use holographic laserprinting methods to "individualize" each coin with a name and date....so parents (and relatives) of newborns all over the world have started ordering these coins over the internet because at $50 per ounce, they find them more attractive than the old stand by of a cigar for dad and a $50 savings bond for the kid.
And then, in the middle of this silver rush, this little country should use the profits on the program to trade out their silver for some more gold.
A funny little story, but this might do more to upset a big global picture than all the euro machinations.....the very idea that even a small portion of the world was seriously returning to a silver coinage, would drive the PM world bonkers........
Poor old Solomon (waiting for silver to skyrocket so I can post as rich ofld Solomon)
Hektor
(6/15/2000; 15:19:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 32396)
Sarah Brady quote
I looked in the January 1994 issue of the National Educator and I couldn't find any such quote. Is this bogus?
"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sarah Brady, co-founder of the Brady Bill gun control laws, January, 1994 issue of the National Educator
John Doe
(6/15/2000; 15:14:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 32395)
Oops, forgot the link...
http://home.sprintmail.com/~jimneel/politicalquotes.html
More and more, tyranny and honest money (gold, et al) are inversely proportional. This small collection illustrates the level of encroaching tyranny to which we are being continually subjected...a comment here, a Freudian slip there, an debated statute passed into law, etc. It also shows that Totalitarianism can easily be approached from either the left or the right...
John Doe
(6/15/2000; 15:13:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 32394)
Oops, forgot the link...
http://home.sprintmail.com/~jimneel/politicalquotes.html
Tyranny and honest money (gold, et al) are inversely proportional. This small collection illustrates the level of encroaching tyranny to which we are being continually subjected...a comment here, a Freudian slip there, an debated statute passed into law, etc. It also shows that Totalitarianism can easily be approached from either the left or the right...
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 14:57:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 32393)
jinx 44
I'm just trying to be gracious. I'd love to say what I really believe!
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 14:52:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 32392)
Leigh
Father's day is not just another "Hallmark holiday".
The Hall family was a smart group. Tell your children: if you're goin' to sell something, be darn sure there's lots of margin in it and it's something people can't do without.
How 'bout gold (after the gold rush?)
jinx44
(6/15/2000; 14:50:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 32391)
Cavan Man--your 32386
I don't think you need to apologize for anything, particularly to non-believers. Since they don't believe, they don't need any apology. When they find out they're wrong, there will be hell to pay.. Pun intended
John Doe
(6/15/2000; 14:49:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 32390)
Source of Hitler quote
"This year will go down in history, for the first time, a civilized nation has full gun registration. Our streets will be safer, our police more efficient, and the world will follow our lead into the future"
Adolph Hitler on gun control. A quote from a newspaper interview. Berlin Daily, April 15th,1935 Page 3 Article 2 by Einleitung Von Eberhard Beckmann-"Abscheid Vom Hessenland"
Some more in a similarly tyrannical vein...
"If the American people are counting on Detective Janet Reno for answers on Waco, they should know by now she can't detect a giraffe in a band of sheep!"
Written by George Nourse, sheriff of Canyon County, Idaho. Presented to the House NOV99 by Rep. Chenoweth
_____
"We must realize that today's Establishment is the new George III. Whether it will continue to adhere to his tactics, we do not know. If it does, the redress, honored in tradition, is also revolution."
Points of Rebellion written by Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas in 1970 (There were calls by some for impeachment following this publication)
______
"In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant."
Charles de Gaulle
_____
"Old communists never die: they just go to the White House."
Rod D. Martin (Syndicated Columnist and Commentator). Vanguard of the Revolution "Remaking Our Culture" http://www.theVanguard.org
_____
"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. The prohibition of private firearms is the goal."
Attorney General Janet Reno
_____
"The more laws, the less justice."
Marcus Tullius Cicero, De Officiis, 44 B.C.
_____
"Let's forgive the Nazi war criminals."
George Bush, New York Times, April 14, 1990
_____
"Our task of creating a socialist America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."
Sarah Brady, co-founder of the Brady Bill gun control laws, January, 1994 issue of the National Educator.
_____
During his 1956 presidential campaign, a woman called out to Adlai E. Stevenson, "Senator, you have the vote of every thinking person!"
Stevenson called back, "That's not enough, madam, we need a majority!"
_____
"If ya want a friend in Washington (D.C.), get a dog."
Harry Truman
Hill Billy Mitchell
(6/15/2000; 13:41:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 32389)
Freudian slip
Oops! Janet Reno!!!
Oro has destroyed my cockamamie(sp) brain.
HBM
Hill Billy Mitchell
(6/15/2000; 13:38:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 32388)
Chris Powell, Re: Hitler quote
Sorry I can't help. It is a copy of a poster given to me by I do not remember whom. I cannot authenticate ergo one must classify this with those items placed on the internet about Janet Rhino.
HBM
Leigh
(6/15/2000; 12:57:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 32387)
It's a Sick World Out There
http://www.newsmax.com
"Clintons Blamed in New York Sex Attacks"
________
Just a "THERE IS NO INFLATION" update -- this morning I went to KMart to buy Father's Day cards. I don't usually purchase a lot of greeting cards, so I've been stuck in the mindset that they cost around 75 cents or so. Well, today I paid almost $4.00 per card. The price must have been printed incorrectly on the backs of the cards, because we all know THERE IS NO INFLATION!
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 12:43:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 32386)
Domestic Oil Search continued....
Oops! .....subsequent drilling.
Last time around didn't our erstwhile trail companion say that the US had exhausted all options and called in all favors to get the price of crude back below $30?
Looks like they see the handwriting on the wall and "plan B" is being implemented. We are not being treated to Bill Richardson making daily pronouncements and shuttling around the ME are we. Well, I know he has his hands full with other matters at present.
What is going on out in Los Alamos anyway!!?? First, we have the alleged spy incident. What's up with that? Next we have the fire. Now, witness the missing hard drive scandal. Is anyone out there paying attention to this?
May God have mercy upon this country(a pardon to the non-believers here gathered).
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 12:36:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 32385)
Domestic Oil Search
I just listened to a report on the radio which said the present US adminnistration if proposing legislation that would open up environmentally sensitive areas in Alaska to further exploration and subseq
TownCrier
(6/15/2000; 11:35:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 32384)
Hello Sir Sierra Madre...
Are you the very same Sierra Madre who's post I enjoyed as brought to us by Sir Topaz two days ago? It's worth a second look...
----------------------
Topaz (06/13/00; 17:53:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 32293)
Food for thought--Sierra-Madre@kitco
Date: Tue Jun 13 2000 19:30
Sierra Madre (A little bit of history...) ID#281252:
Copyright © 2000 Sierra Madre/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
In 1981, Mexican President L--pez Portillo's government ran out of dollars, because the oil price cratered. Instead of devaluing, and because there was an election coming up in 1982, L--pez Portillo borrowed billions of dollars short-term, and authorised Mexican banks to open dollar accounts for those wishing to own dollars. Thus, he hoped to stem the demand for "physical" dollars by offering "paper" dollars to Mexicans, in the form of "Dollar deposits in Mexican banks". The Mexican banks collected the equivalent of $12.8 billion dollars ( of course, in pesos ) and told the depositors - 315,000 of them - that they had dollar accounts.
In 1982, the short term borrowings came due, and Mexico came very close to defaulting. NO DOLLARS. The people who had "dollar accounts" were told they could withdraw their dollars AT THE OFFICIAL RATE, which was 50% under the market rate. Thus, they took a 50% haircut on their savings of "dollars". A Mexican banker by the name of Abedrop coined a term for these "dollar" accounts: "Mex-Dollars". There never were any dollars in their accounts. The bankers took their pesos, and told them they could have dollars when they wanted them, and paid low, dollar-level interest rates; then the bankers proceeded to do with the pesos whatever they wanted.
This is what JP Morgan and Chase, Deutsche Bank and others are doing. You buy your paper-gold derivatives, thinking you have a gold contract and can claim your gold if the price goes up.
They are doing this, giving you paper gold, in order not to devalue the dollar by allowing a higher price for gold.
The gold is not there, they don't have it and never will have it. The government doesn't want to devalue - an election is coming - so the price of gold, against which the devaluation must take place, is being resisted. The later conequences will blow up in the bankers' faces.
When push comes to shove, the paper-gold contracts will be settled at a price determined by the Powers that Be,and all who thought they had a bundle are going to get a bitter suprise. If gold is $600 oz, maybe you'll get...$300? It can all be legally arranged.
By the way, 15 days after the Mex Dollars were announced, the Mexican banking system, totally bankrupt, was nationalized. ( Sep 1, 1982 )
The nationalized Mexican banking system was bailed out by Washington. But who will bail out the U.S. banks?
Maybe that's in store for the USA? Think about it!. The U.S. owners of gold tomorrow, like the Mexican owners of Dollars outside of Mexico, will rescue the remains of their economy with the liquidity which will be in their hands, thanks to their foresight.
Buy Physical!
-----------
Nice work there, chief.
TownCrier
(6/15/2000; 11:08:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 32383)
Fed likely to keep raising rates
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/000615/n15293381.html
Speaking at the Austrian National Bank's annual economics conference in Vienna, Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond President Alfred Broaddus (also a voting member of the rate-setting FOMC) said, "apparently higher trend productivity growth in the U.S. economy...requires higher real interest rates to maintain macroeconomic balance," and that "in order to prevent a reemergence of inflationary pressures and, in doing so, to sustain the expansion, U.S. monetary policy must allow short-term real interest rates to rise."
Sierra Madre
(6/15/2000; 11:03:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 32382)
Best medicine for small country
Hello totalamateur!
The best medicine for a small country is to place pure silver ounces with no face value in the hands of the people.
If the country has a Mint, it can purchase the bullion at very low prices, and mint these coins with a small seignorage. With a little publicity, the people will snap up all the silver minted.
The small country, if it has enlightened leadership, will use a small part of its foreign currency reserves to purchase the silver and have it minted, instead of keeping all its foreign currency reserves in dollars.
This action puts a permanent purchasing power in the hands of the people, and is an excellent use of paper dollar reserves: a true currency in exchange for a paper reserve.
Politically, such a move is balm for social unrest.
When enough silver is in the hands of the people, it will begin to be used as a means of exchange, as a parallel currency (parallel to the paper currency of the country we are speaking of) and will have a value which will fluctuate according to the international price of the dollar. This is no problem today, all currencies fluctuate daily, and this silver currency would simply be another, and the best currency in the world, not limited for its circulation to the country of origin, like its paper money.
All it takes is enlightenment in the mind of a patriotic leader.
Why not gold? Because gold is the deadly enemy of the USG and US banking system. Do not ask for trouble, simply use the more modest silver, which is so cheap, it can find its way into the majority of family savings.
There, the silver will become a liferaft for the family to be used in the coming world economic collapse.
There is more to say, but this will suffice.
Consult www.plata.com.mx where you will find a couple of articles on the subject, in English.
Journeyman
(6/15/2000; 10:57:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 32381)
Imagine Gold @ALL
My colleague L. Reichard White has been reading this forum for awhile now, and he asked me to post the following for him:
Suppose FDR hadn't stolen the gold from the U.S. and as a result, the consequences of the Federal Reseve counterfeiting of "Redeemable In Gold" Federal Reserve Notes had been over much more quickly. It would have been.
As a result, the Federal Reserve, just as in the two previous attempts at a central bank in the US, would not have had it's charter renewed. Further, the trauma of the resultant, if shortened, depression would be connected with the organizations that should bear the blame. As a result, the idea of ever instituting a central bank again became the "third rail of politics," touch it and you're dead.
Gold, of course, wasn't outlawed --- who could even imagine such a thing --- and without fanfare or legislation, the peoples' habits and preferences for money that didn't "inflate" every year kept gold as the main medium of exchange. (In fact the notion of "inflation of the money supply" and the resultant chronic general price increases was a concept only the most erudite and theoretical of economists had ever even considered.)
Private banking took over what useful functions banking serves. Banks were kept in check, just as are other businesses, by free market competiton. This wasn't perfect of course, now and again a bank would go down the tubes, which kept people aware and the banks in line. It tended to keep "fractional reserve" lending in check as bankers were forced to keep their reserves high to avoid bank runs. Various private insurance plans evolved to protect those who feared bank failures. As before, people who were content with the slow increase in the buying power of their savings (or didn't trust banks or insurance plans) could easily save without the bank or anyone else as an intermediary simply by sticking their gold coins in that buried coffee can.
Gradually "deposit insurance" became integrated into the package many banks presented to their customers. These private insurance companies, not wanting a loss, became very effective at sluthing out-banks engaging in questionable lending practices, etc., and removing coverage from them. This reduced excessive "fractional reserve" lending even further --- and other questionable banking practices too. This had the effect of balancing the desire for borrowing with a stable money supply. The result was much less malinvestment and a further smoothing out of the business "boom/bust" cycle. While the "boom/bust" cycle still existed (all systems fluctuate), most people hardly even noticed the effects anymore except in local areas where bank loan officers made massive misjudgements. Heck, once in Porcosha EIGHT companies went bankrupt at almost the same time because they convinced Joe Schnodgrass, the local loan officer, that the new Polish krill ships would create a boom in everything from krill caviar substitute to krill based ice cream. This is, of course the classic catastrophe presented as a warning in all banking management instruction texts.
Sky Olson, an enterprising young reporter, broke the story that bank "depositors" were actually bank "investors" (or perhaps, bank gamblers). A small company by the name of A.O. Smith embraced this new "truth in banking" concept and first pioneered the financial (gambling) products which resulted. Once the concept caught on, true honesty in banking was available for those who wanted to share fully in the bank's "gambling" expertise in making loans to sound enterprises. The rest is history. That same company, many decades later, pioneered cheap life "insurance," which through competiton, caused what some would call the reform of the life insurance industry by cutting through the B.S. and misrepresentation and giving people an honest product at a much lower price. "We're betting you won't die before your time," was their slogan.
But you probably know all this because your dad and mom taught it to you during some of your home schooling. As your visiting discussion leader, I want to pose the question to you: Keeping in mind what the world would be like if FDR had stolen America's gold (I know it's hard to imagine, but try), how is today's gold-standard world different than the one that would have existed if our money was only paper with no gold backing and was thus under the control of the bankers and politicians rather than the restrictions imposed by nature on the process of gold mining?
Health, happiness, & long life,
L. Reichard White <lreichardwhite@yahoo.com>
So forum folks, what WOULD today's world be like if we still had sound money? Would it make any difference? Would the world be different at all if gold were the chief monetary commodity? If so how?
If not, what are we doing here?
Regards,
Journeyman
TownCrier
(6/15/2000; 10:51:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 32380)
H.R. 4541, the Commodity Futures Modernization Act of 2000
http://www.bog.frb.fed.us/BoardDocs/Testimony/2000/20000614.htm
In Testimony to the House yesterday, the Fed's Patrick Parkinson summarized the Board's position on the three principle elements of this proposed legislation:
(1) OTC derivatives;
(2) regulatory relief for U.S. futures exchanges;
(3) repeal of the Shad-Johnson restrictions on the trading of single-stock futures.
You can read the position in items one and two at the given link, but I'm offering his comments on item three to show that our markets have a seemingly unlimited capacity and desire to reduce nearly everything to a leverageable wager on price performance. Given that stock options are already available, and that stocks themselves can be bought on margin, can anyone cite a REALLY good reason that we also need to develop a futures market on contracts for single stocks? Well, I suppose it WOULD create new jobs...
Mr. Parkinson says:
"The President's Working Group on Financial Markets concluded that the current prohibition on single-stock futures (part of the Shad-Johnson Accord) can be repealed if issues about the integrity of the underlying securities markets and regulatory arbitrage are resolved. The Board believes that these issues can and should be resolved through negotiations between the CFTC and the SEC. The Congress should continue to urge the two agencies to settle their remaining differences so that investors have the opportunity to trade single-stock futures, both on futures exchanges and on securities exchanges.
+
If it would facilitate repeal of the prohibition, the Board is willing to accept regulatory authority over levels of margin on single-stock futures, as provided in H.R. 4541, so long as the Board can delegate that authority to the CFTC, the SEC, or an Intermarket Margin Board consisting of representatives of the three agencies. The Board understands that the purpose of such authority would be to preserve the financial integrity of the contract market and thereby prevent systemic risk and to ensure that levels of margins on single-stock futures and options are consistent. The Board would note that, for purposes of preserving financial integrity and preventing systemic risk, margin levels on futures and options should be considered consistent, even if they are not identical, if they provide similar levels of protection against defaults by counterparties, taking into account any differences in (1) the price volatility of the contracts, (2) the frequency with which margin calls are made, or (3) the period of time within which margin calls must be met.
+
In conclusion, the Board continues to believe that legislation modernizing the Commodity Exchange Act is essential. The Board appreciates this committee's efforts to foster the consensus necessary to enact legislation. Although some difficult issues remain unresolved, H.R. 4541 represents significant progress toward that goal."
Henri
(6/15/2000; 10:32:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 32379)
POG swings
I wonder if the BB's are taking advantage of volume diffrentials on the global gold markets? London is purportedly the largest market...so to pump money out of the markets they buy the smaller markets to drive the price up for morning open in London/NY then sell the p*ss out of them all day to make their profit. next day...same. This explains why we see the same characters buying in Aus/hong kong and selling London/NY on the same day. Yes?
USAGOLD
(6/15/2000; 10:31:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 32378)
Today's Gold Market Report: Chinese Central Bank a Gold Buyer
6/15/00 Indications
Current
Change
Gold August Comex
291.70
-2.60
Silver July Comex
5.09
+0.02
30 Yr TBond Sept CBOT
97~00
-0~09
Dollar Index June NYBOT
106.46
+0.35
Market Report 6/15/00): Gold traded lower in the early going with the aggressive buying which
occurred in Asia the past few sessions and drove the yellow near the $290 mark seemingly in
abeyance -- at least for the time being. Hong Kong and Tokyo trading lacked clear direction.
There are reports that the Chinese central bank has entered a gold buying program with South
Africa which would insure the delivery of fifteen tons per year. If China has entered into an
acquisition program, and this clearly indicates they have, we don't think that South Africa will be
the only source. Nor do we think the acquisitions will be limited to 15 tons per year. There have
been official rumblings for the past several months that China was interested in bolstering its gold
reserves -- a country with ballooning dollar reserves that can take proper advantage of the weak
dollar price to quickly build its gold reserves. At present China reportedly holds 375 tons of gold
in its reserves compared with Europe's roughly 12,500 tons and America's roughly 8000 tons.
China's rival and neighbor, Japan -- even weaker in the gold/dollar ratio -- holds about 750 tons.
Gold flagged in Europe as the dollar strengthened. The generally muted atmosphere carried over to
the New York open. The Swiss National Bank announced its ongoing gold sales program would
remain "transparent." SNB Vice-President Jean-Pierre Roth said, "we have decided against selling
gold unannounced and against forward sales." In other words, these sales are not designed to
depress the price; the Swiss do not have a hidden agenda; and this likely to become a routine to
which the market will become accustomed in the months ahead. Switzerland has sold an average
1.5 tons per day thus far. The sale is to be completed over a period of several years.
That's it for today. We'll see you back here tomorrow. Have a good day, fellow goldmeisters.
Henri
(6/15/2000; 10:28:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 32377)
Solomon Weaver Msg 32347
What you have described is not a bank and therefore should not have to subscribe to "banking " regs. e-gold is such a system but without the cards. A "bank" practices fractional reserve lending.
Clint H
(6/15/2000; 10:23:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 32376)
Manipulation
http://www.usatoday.com/money/charts.htm
This is probably obvious to everyone else but I don't remember it being stated.
It does not make sense that all markets will follow the same pattern unless there is a timed concerted effort to manipulate the markets.
This happened four times yesterday and already twice today.
Look at the USA Today charts. Today the NYSE, S&P 500, Nasdak and the Dow all started the morning up. When the slide started there was a concerted timed turnaround at 11:00 and again at 11:45. All at the same time. Easy to see when they are all on one page.
Yesterday they all had bottoms at 10:00, 12:45, 1:45 and 3:40. Are we being snookered? Is this legal?
Al Fulchino
(6/15/2000; 9:37:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 32375)
Let's Get Physical
The gold paper boys think we are all talking about the old <80's> music video by Olivia Newton-John.
Buena Fe
(6/15/2000; 8:33:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 32374)
banking
the Philly banking sub index is really getting wacked this morning! It seems that when this happens the broader markets follow a few days later. I smell fire in the banking sector......hmmmmm.....bankers.......fiat currency games...........must keep gold under 290..........maintain perceptions..................more paper..more paper.......ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! FIRERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Good Morning All, Gold IS Precious
Some Time Soon
Silverbaron
(6/15/2000; 8:19:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 32373)
POG vs currency exchange rates
http://expage.com/goldexcurrenciesdaily
Short-term (for June data only) fit photo now added. Gold is tracking *very* closely to its currency base.
Spreadsheets forwarded on request.
Tom_Hixson@Yahoo.com
Have a nice day.
MO VER MEG
(6/15/2000; 7:43:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 32372)
Black Blade
Thank you for the time and effort you put into the wakeup calls. I find them very interesting ( and first thing each morning).
Sincerely,
MO VER MEG
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 6:46:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 32371)
PS: ORO
While I tend to come down on your side of the discussion, at least the recognition of gold as the 5000 year old wealth asset it has always been is a step in the right direction. I'll settle for incrementalism.
The USA is tops in my book but, we can and should learn much from eastern cultures and yes, even our quasi-socialist brethren in Euro zone.
Cavan Man
(6/15/2000; 6:42:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 32370)
Dear ORO
Your 32319 and 32320 are magnificent summations!
Nowhere else on the web can be found the quality and depth of your specific analysis; hail and thanks to USAGOLD.
SALMON
(6/15/2000; 6:25:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 32369)
Current Account Balance
We have been bombarded in the mainstream media on a daily basis about this so called great economy that is generating huge surpluses. Clinton and his cronies are devoting a great deal of time deciding where and how all this extra cash is going to be spent (after they have left office, of course). Time to check the real picture, the real truth as to what a disaster this administration has truly been. The only way out is to print more paper which consequently leads to hyperinflation. Check it out yourself.
http://www.franco-nevada.com/img/ppt_merger2/036.gif
P.S. And while you are at, it check out the Roadshow as well.
totalamateur
(6/15/2000; 6:21:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 32368)
Gold standard, dollar collapse, Euro pegging etc.
If you had the ear of the head of state of a small country, what advice should be given to someone who is tired of Soroses and other ($)sorrows wrecking havoc with their currency?
Would a unilateral return to the gold standard be a good idea? Would it work? If so, what would be the best way to go about it?
Would pegging of the currency to the Euro be a good solution? Can this be done unilaterally?
What is the best thing a small country can do to play it safe in the face of a collapse of the US$
If a country suddenly declared that they returned to the gold standard, what would happen to their currency and how would it affect the price of gold?
You guys out there that have a better understanding of these matters, please, I really need to know these things and so do probably a lot of others, especially the ones that are interested in savib g their countries from going down the drain along with the declining dollar!
Black Blade
(6/15/2000; 6:19:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 32367)
Morning Wakeup Call! Even a Gold History Lesson is Included! WWII Gold!
Sources: Various
SOUTH AFRICA: INVESTEC TO AIRFREIGHT GOLD TO CHINA CENTRAL BANK.
15 Jun 2000 07:12GMT
JOHANNESBURG, June 14 (Reuters) - South African investment bank Investec Group will airfreight a minimum of 15 tonnes of gold a year to China's central bank, a senior Investec official said on Wednesday. "The airfreight logistics still have to be worked out," Helmut Bahrs, head of Investec's International Banking Division, told Reuters by telephone from China. He said the first order is likely to be airfreighted to the People's Bank of China within two weeks. "The agreement is for an unlimited period of time, providing the supply of approximately one tonne of pure gold every three weeks," Investec said in a statement. The gold will be supplied by Rand Refinery Ltd, which is owned by South African gold companies. It will be airfreighted from Johannesburg to Beijing via Hong Kong, a spokesman for Rand Refinery said. "We sell about two tonnes of gold every day, so one tonne every three weeks is not serious. What is serious is that this is the first time that we will sell any gold into China," the spokesman said.
Black Blade: Last year, a Chinese official made the recommendation that the Chinese government should significantly increase their gold reserves. Looks like they took his advice.
Major cities bid to set up the first gold market in China
Hong Kong--June 15--The governments of major Chinese cities have lobbied the central government for the right to set up the country's first gold market, which would include the electronic trading of gold, official sources in Beijing said Thursday. The government however, has so far not set a timetable to allow gold trading in the domestic market, a gold official said. The People's Bank of China (PBOC), the central bank, currently has a monopoly over domestic gold trading. (Story .13723)
Black Blade: This gold trading is just getting down-right popular, just like beanie-babies and Pokemon!
Swiss Gold sales
London (Reuters, 15 Jun 2000 09:46 )- Gold shrugged aside news the Swiss National Bank had sold 26.5 tonnes of gold reserves by the end of May. The sales, part of an overall programme designed to sell 120 tonnes by the end of September, were seen on schedule with average sales of a little more than one tonne a day, dealers said.
SNB's Roth says market reacting positively to gold sales
Geneva--June 15--Swiss National Bank Vice-President Jean-Pierre Roth said Thursday the bank had sold 26.5 tonnes of its gold reserves by end-May and 40 tonnes to date. Due to the large quantities to be sold and duration of the program, Roth said "we have decided against selling gold unannounced and against forward sales." He added that a daily presence on the market and the transparency of the sales were viewed positively by the markets thus far. (Story .12550)
Black Blade: Oh my! The Swiss sold gold! Think that the anti-gold pundit spin is serving to drive down POG today? Nahhhhhh……….., BTW, accounting changes go into effect today as derivative positions are to be marked to market. Should be an entertaining scramble in Wall Street investment banks, oh to be a fly on the wall!
UK Press: Zimbabwe president may seize foreign-owned mines
London--June 15--Zimbabwean President Robert Mugabe will consider seizing foreign-owned mines and other firms as part of his campaign to "Africanize" the country's assets, the Independent newspaper reported Thursday. Mugabe, whose government has supported the occupation of more than 1,400 white-owned farms by black squatters this year, made his comments in an interview with the British newspaper. He said foreign-owned gold, copper, asbestos and iron mines face seizure once his government completes the redistribution of millions of acres of the white-owned land. (Story .11710)
Black Blade: This buffoon Mugabe is a real piece of work. First he threatens civil war, then to cause famine in Zim, and now compete with Inner Mongolia for poorest nation status. I'd be surprised if he isn't fragged by his own troops before long. Remember what happened to Idi Amin.
Sunken WWII sub and its cargo of gold
Alexander Colhoun
With its cargo of more than two tons of gold bound for Nazi Germany, the Japanese submarine I-52 was a prime Allied target. As the sub made its way across the Atlantic on June 23, 1944, radio signals from the sub were intercepted by the Allies. An American bomber was sent to find the sub. The plane attacked the submarine cruising on the surface and sank it. The I-52 went down with all hands - and all cargo -aboard. Fifty-one years later, Paul Tidwell, a maritime historian, researcher, and salvager based in Manassas, Va., unearthed declassified documents that led him to the site of the sunken gold mine. Using castoff cold-war technology, Tidwell discovered the sub three miles down and some 1,200 miles west of the Cape Verde Islands, making it the deepest ship containing gold ever found. (A National Geographic Society TV documentary on finding the sub aired last September.) Mr. Tidwell and his company, Cape Verde Explorations, face big challenges to recovering the sub, including lawsuits filed by one of the company's investors, claims on the gold by the Japanese government, and the difficulty of retrieving heavy gold bars resting 17,500 feet underwater. Tidwell is upbeat and proud of his efforts so far. "The I-52 has allowed, in some strange way, a peace with the Japanese families and with the men who had caused their deaths," Tidwell said by phone. He hopes to begin salvage efforts in January 2001. Ultimately, he plans to display artifacts from the submarine in Kure, Japan, its home port.
Black Blade: The misfortunes of war. That's today's interesting gold history lesson boys and girls.
Meanwhile, S&P Futures up +2.00, fair value +11.76 indicating a higher open on Wall Street, Au down -$3.00 at $288.60, Ag down -$0.03 at $5.03, and PGMs essentially comatose.
Hill Billy Mitchell
(6/15/2000; 6:00:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 32366)
The sound of freedom
@Peter Asher(6/14/2000; 23:46:58MT - usagold.com msg#:32358)
A fine sound it is! Journeyman as I read the above post by Sir Petee I was reminded of my "Journey", and a long and slow process it was, from "voluntary compliance" to the freedom of mind and soul which you and I and hopefully others on this forum now have. At one point I comtemplated relocating to the great state of Tennessee. Of course in my meanderings through the jungle of mis-information I too ran across the writings of O.S. I am so thankful that I have this new found freedom. It became clear to me early on that "honking the horn" at legislators after the fact goes on deaf ears.
Regards
HBM
Silverbaron
(6/15/2000; 5:45:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 32365)
Price of Gold is closely following its currency role
http://expage.com/goldexcurrenciesdaily
Updated as of 6/15 a.m. quotes.
JavaMan
(6/15/2000; 5:39:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 32364)
(No Subject)
SHIFTY...yeah, the movie was a little vague but who else could that "stranger" have been?
TC, I'd be happy to second Topaz's (#32361) HOF Nomination of ORO msg's #32319-32320.
Black Blade
(6/15/2000; 4:22:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 32363)
Gold getting slapped around in London, The Fix is In!
Au is getting a thrashing in London. Au down -$4.05 at $287.55. The Short crowd is ganging up on Au, making up for the nice POG rise yesterday. It was to be expected as expiry is this friday. They just gotta keep it below $290. Could be very interesting at NY open. The proof will be if the US dollar falls against other currencies and Au is still falling. Then all can rest assured that the fix is in!
Peter Asher
(6/15/2000; 4:04:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 32362)
Confiscation
http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/world/africa/newsid_790000/790840.stm
Zimbabwe's President Robert Mugabe has given notice that he will follow his campaign of land
redistribution with a programme to take the country's mines out of white ownership.
Topaz
(6/15/2000; 3:16:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 32361)
Psst.....
http://www.uk-invest.com/news/commodities.html
The old Real Estate slogan "Now is a good time to buy" is appearing everywhere in relation to Gold lately.
Gotta be good eh!
Topaz
(6/15/2000; 0:54:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 32360)
Town Crier- HOF Nomination ORO msg's #32319-32320
TC:
I forget the protocol for HOF noms so will defer the Tower ;^)
HBM's thought's re ORO's posts (above) are no doubt shared by many here,(incl mois)& in order to have a ready reference, the post's can be inducted.
After (only) my second read, the gist is that ORO is at variance with "the other's" on a free-gold system given Greshams Law. He goes on to outline the past/present $/Au/Oil relationship as (obtusely) referred to by the Physical Au Heavies who so graciously offer their thoughts here incl those aforementioned, Ari & AIII.
All-in-all, two most noble offerings.
Seconds anyone?
onlychild
(6/15/2000; 0:33:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 32359)
More on natural gas
To supplement Leland's (6/14/2000; 21:24:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 32348) I would like to relate a recent conversation. I had an electrician call me to inquire about wiring in explosive areas, in particular: natural gas filling stations. I asked if he meant propane and he assured me that it was a natural gas facility. It seems that the Kansas board of public utilities has already converted all of their service and construction vehicles to natural gas. Pretty smart since they buy the stuff plenty cheap, not to mention that the DOT has not taxed it yet.
He said that as soon as they finish the station in Olathe KS, he will be on the road installing them all over the state of Kansas. Natural gas is the coming fuel for autos but the car manufacturers have not let the consumer know yet lest you delay that new car purchase till next year. Better that you buy a new car now so it can be rendered obsolete in two years. So far the all you are hearing is how expensive and dirty oil is. As soon as the auto makers and the gas industry have everything in place, viola! Natural gas will be the answer to all of our problems.
Presently several auto makers offer propane fueled models like Ford's dual fuel F-150 and Contour. The switch to natural gas is just a download away for them.
The EPA just released a report last month about dirty deisels. They are looking for a way to clean up emissions by 90% over ten years. They already know how, this is just conditioning. Deisels run very well and very clean on natural gas, but as Leland's article mentions, there is a problem with supplying that much, it's gonna cost ya pal! Maybe ten times what oil has been costing,(according to the gas industry) so you need to be convinced that natural gas is the answer for the future.
The Golden rule states: "He who has the gold makes the rules" but as we will learn in the future, He who provides the energy will soon have all the gold.
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