Gold Today!
ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/14/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time
(Yesterday's Discussion.)
Black Blade
(9/14/01; 23:53:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61540)
Oil Price Gains War Premium
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010914/bs/markets_oil_dc_24.html
Snippit:
LONDON (Reuters) - World oil prices added a war premium on Friday on fears of U.S. military retaliation for Tuesday's suicide attacks. European benchmark Brent Blend crude oil jumped 80 cents to $29.17 per barrel by 7:20 a.m. EDT. ``This reflects nervousness about a situation that has Middle East overtones,'' said Peter Gignoux, of Schroder Salomon Smith Barney in London. ``Call it a war premium or fear premium, there seem to be no rules any more,'' he added. Prices rose further on Friday as the Afghan Taliban movement vowed revenge if the United States attacked Afghanistan (news), adding further to the atmosphere of tension.
Black Blade" "War Premium" - Better get Gold and Silver portfolio insurance. We are at war as George Dubya puts it. BTW, 35,000 to 50.000 guard and reservists are being called up for "Recovery and Security." Hmmm…
Black Blade
(9/14/01; 23:46:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61539)
Crude Oil Opens Up 8 Percent
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010914/bs/markets_energy_nymex_dc_1.html
Snippit:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. crude oil futures opened more than eight percent higher Friday afternoon as trading resumed after a three-day forced shutdown following terror attacks on New York and Washington. Fears of U.S. reprisals against Tuesday's suicide attacks saw New York Mercantile Exchange October crude start at $29.98 barrel, up $2.35 from its last trade on Tuesday's out-of-hours session.
Black Blade: Could get worse as supply could be disrupted by threats or fear. Meanwhile, the OPEC production cuts remain in effect. "Cheap Energy" is desperately needed to jump start the economy and "Cheap Energy" does not exist anymore.
Black Blade
(9/14/01; 23:36:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61538)
A Bleak Monday Looms Over Wall Street
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010914/business_attack_markets_dc_6.html
Snippit:
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Stock markets were idle for the fourth and possibly final day on Friday with Wall Street's work force battling numbing sadness, a tumble in Europe and fears of a U.S. sell-off next week after a terror attack crushed the world's financial heart and killed thousands.
The New York Stock Exchange, Nasdaq and American Stock Exchange assured investors they would reopen on Monday if a slew of equipment tests over the weekend are successful. Most pundits see a sell-off when stocks resume trading as uncertainty and fear sweeps over much of the globe. ``The mood obviously is grim,'' said Peter Cardillo, a director of research at Westfalia Investments, who lost his offices in the attack. ``It's not going to be easy to go back to the Wall Street area and actually see a war zone. I was there when it happened, I was walking in the smoke and the debris and the dust.''
Black Blade: Hard to say. There are rules in place that ensure that the Market is "Rigged" come Monday.
Black Blade
(9/14/01; 23:16:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61537)
Attack stamps out N.Y. power crisis
http://www.msnbc.com/news/628808.asp
Destruction of World Trade Center cuts demand, price sharply
Snippit:
Sept. 14 - In a withering hail of glass and fire, New York City's power crisis was snuffed out this week. Hundreds of megawatts of "load," or demand, suddenly disappeared from the power system and some experts believe the city won't return to previous levels of electrical demand until 2003. Before the terrorist attacks, the city had been walking a thin line between sufficiency and shortage. In fact, about 400 megawatts of emergency peaking plants were constructed in the city this summer, and grid officials hoped it would be enough to satisfy near-term needs. It now appears New York City
Black Blade: Tough way to solve an energy crisis. Not exactly how I thought it would end.
AEL
(9/14/01; 23:02:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61536)
Harry Browne
When Will We Learn?
by Harry Browne
The terrorist attacks against America comprise a horrible tragedy.
But they shouldn't be a surprise.
It is well known that in war, the first casualty is truth -- that
during any war truth is forsaken for propaganda. But sanity was a
prior casualty: it was the loss of sanity that led to war in the
first place.
Our foreign policy has been insane for decades. It was only a
matter of time until Americans would have to suffer personally for
it. It is a terrible tragedy of life that the innocent so often
have to suffer for the sins of the guilty.
When we will learn that we can't allow our politicians to bully
the world without someone bullying back eventually?
President Bush has authorized continued bombing of innocent people
in Iraq. President Clinton bombed innocent people in the Sudan,
Afghanistan, Iraq, and Serbia. President Bush Senior invaded Iraq
and Panama. President Reagan bombed innocent people in Libya and
invaded Grenada. And on and on it goes.
Did we think the people who lost their families and friends and
property in all that destruction would love America for what
happened?
When will we learn that violence always begets violence?
Teaching Lessons
Supposedly, Reagan bombed Libya to teach Muammar al-Qaddafi a
lesson about terrorism. But shortly thereafter a TWA plane was
destroyed over Scotland, and our government is convinced it was
Libyans who did it.
When will we learn that "teaching someone a lesson" never teaches
anything but resentment -- that it only inspires the recipient to
greater acts of defiance.
How many times on Tuesday did we hear someone describe the
terrorist attacks as "cowardly acts"? But as misguided and
despicable as they were, they were anything but cowardly. The
people who committed them knowingly gave their lives for whatever
stupid beliefs they held.
But what about the American Presidents who order bombings of
innocent people -- while the Presidents remain completely
insulated from any danger? What would you call their acts?
When will we learn that forsaking truth and reason in the heat of
battle almost always assures that we will lose the battle?
Losing our Last Freedoms
And now, as sure as night follows day, we will be told we must
give up more of our freedoms to avenge what never should have
happened in the first place.
When will we learn that it makes no sense to give up our freedoms
in the name of freedom?
What to Do
What _should_ be done?
First of all, stop the hysteria. Stand back and ask how this could
have happened. Ask how a prosperous country isolated by two oceans
could have so embroiled itself in other people's business that
someone would want to do us harm. Even sitting in the middle of
Europe, Switzerland isn't beset by terrorist attacks, because the
Swiss mind their own business.
Second, resolve that we won't let our leaders use this occasion to
commit their own terrorist acts upon more innocent people, foreign
and domestic, that will inspire more terrorist attacks in the
future.
Third, find a way, with _enforceable_ constitutional limits, to
prevent our leaders from ever again provoking this kind of anger
against America.
Patriotism?
There are those who will say this article is unpatriotic and
un-American -- that this is not a time to question our country or
our leaders.
When will we learn that without freedom and sanity, there is no
reason to be patriotic?
---------
Harry Browne was the 2000 Libertarian presidential candidate. You
can read more of his articles at http://www.HarryBrowne.org, and
his books are available at http://www.HBBooks.com.
------------------------------------------------------------------
When Will We Learn? - Part II
by Harry Browne
My article last Tuesday "When Will We Learn?" provoked more
controversy than anything I've ever written. In case there was any
misunderstanding, here is what I believe:
1. The terrorist attack was a horrible tragedy and I feel enormous
sympathy for those who were personally affected by it. I wrote my
article hoping that, however unlikely, it might be possible to
prevent such a thing from ever happening again.
2. I hope anyone responsible for the attack who didn't die in it
will be found, tried, and punished appropriately.
3. Terrorism by definition is the killing of innocent people in
order to bring about some political or social change.
4. Terrorism may cause some changes in the short term, but it
never leads to a conclusive victory, because it provokes a
never-ending cycle of escalating violence on both sides.
5. The U.S. government has engaged in acts of terrorism over the
past few decades -- bombing and starving innocent people in
foreign countries, supposedly to force their leaders to make
changes the U.S. government desires. Terrorism doesn't become
"policing" or "justice" merely because it is our government doing
it.
6. All Iraqis are not Saddam Hussein; all Serbs aren't Slobodan
Milosevic; all Afghanis (or Saudis) are not Osama Bin Laden.
7. Killing innocent people in retaliation for the sins of other
people isn't justice; it is terrorism. The terrorists were wrong
to kill Americans to satisfy their grievances against American
foreign policy. And to react to them by killing innocent
foreigners would also be terrorism.
8. You can't make productive decisions at a time when your mind is
clouded by anger, resentment, or thoughts of revenge.
The reactions I've received have been roughly 50-50 regarding my
article.
Here are some of the objections people have made against my
position . . .
Timing
"This was a bad time for you to say, 'I told you so' in such a
poor fashion."
I'm not saying, "I told you so." I'm trying to stop future madness
-- against Americans and against foreigners. Should I wait until
after our military invades Afghanistan before speaking out?
"Now, of all times, is the time when we must support one another
for the best."
That doesn't mean supporting the ill-conceived policies that led
to this event.
"It is time for our people to pull together against these sick
terrorists. We could use your help too."
To do what? Encourage our politicians to continue doing the very
things that led to this?
You're demonstrating why I had to write the article. If we stand
behind our leaders now, letting them speak for us "as one voice,"
nothing will change. We will continue to see more acts by our
government that will lead to more terrorist attacks on the U.S.
"Don't tell me to 'stop the hysteria'. This event merits hysteria,
anger, sadness, and fear. I will be hysterical because it is the
only thing I can do to show my countrymen that I mourn them."
Hysteria creates lynch mobs and more killing of innocent people.
Grief, anger, and resentment are all natural reactions to what
happened. But letting your emotions make bad decisions is not a
productive reaction.
"What's done is done and now we're in the middle of this terrible
mess. Maybe you're right, maybe we should not be surprised that
something was bound to happen. But, now what? We don't need people
criticizing our past mistakes at this moment. Save that for later.
Right now we need immediate action."
If we don't understand the past mistakes, the "immediate action"
taken will simply repeat those mistakes. Is that what you want?
My Motives
"You have lost my support by your political posturing in a time of
crisis."
Political posturing? Do you really think I expected to receive
adulation for writing an article that goes so sharply against
current public opinion?
"It sickens me that you would use this tragedy this way."
In what way? To try to stop it from happening again? To try to
stop our politicians from running off and bombing more innocent
people?
As a normally public voice, should I sit quietly by and not point
out that our politicians are continually putting innocent
Americans in harm's way by terrorizing innocent foreigners?
I understand your outrage and emotional reaction, but we must hold
our own politicians accountable for the anger they are causing
around the world with their careless, dangerous, show-off tactics.
"Please leave the United States. You do not deserve to remain here
with this type of un-American diatribe which only serves to
support the voices of moderation."
I thought this supposed to be a free country in which everyone was
allowed to speak his mind. I guess I misunderstood. I didn't
realize it was a crime to try to stop a lynching.
The Libertarian Party
"Using this event as a means to bolster the Libertarian party is
despicable and it is disgusting."
It appears that standing up for what one believes isn't a way to
bolster the popularity of the Libertarian Party. But that's what
Libertarians often do -- especially when no one else will.
"You have forever ended any chance of my supporting the
Libertarian party, unless you resign from any and all leadership
positions immediately."
You'll be pleased to know I don't hold any leadership position in
the Libertarian Party. I am a private citizen who grieves for what
the politicians have done to my country and to the innocents who
die in America and abroad.
Many Libertarians disagree with my position, so you shouldn't
judge the Libertarian Party by me.
Retaliation
"We must deter the next attack with the fiery sword of vengeance,
not some limp, liberal, why-can't-we-be-let-alone weak response."
We have done that already -- bombing Libya, invading Panama,
bombing a perfume factory in the Sudan, bombing Afghanistan. Did
those "fiery sword[s] of vengeance" deter the next attack?
"Bomb Kabul into oblivion."
As I recall, Kabul is the capital of Afghanistan, which is run by
the same "Freedom Fighters" to whom our government gave so much
money and military hardware in the 1980s. Before we run off
bombing innocent people (or is every Afghani guilty of the World
Trade Center bombing?), shouldn't we question the American foreign
policy that put those people in power in Afghanistan? Or is it bad
timing to bring that up now?
"Once you know the face of your enemy, destroy him completely and
you will never need fight him again. America is at _war_. To win a
war it must be fought in totality."
A war against whom? Against people like the one million Iraqis who
have died of starvation or disease because of the American
blockade? Against people like the innocents who died in the
bombings of the Sudan and Afghanistan?
Everytime our leaders say, "We must make sure this will never
happen again," they do something to assure that it _will_ happen
again. I wrote my article in the vain hope it might help people to
think twice before demanding the wrong action.
"Do you think these terrorists can really be reasoned with?"
I didn't say they could. I said we shouldn't give them legitimate
reasons to direct their misguided zeal at the U.S.
"Don't you think a soft response would just encourage more
terrorism?"
I hope the people who were involved are found, tried, and
punished. I don't consider that a soft response. But I don't want
any more innocent people hurt -- Americans or foreigners.
"This is _not_ the time to run and bury our heads in the sand.
Someone has to stand up to BULLIES wherever they are! Like the
Nazis; the only good Religious Fundamentalist is one that is in
HEAVEN! Not only IS it a time for the U.S. to take action but to
OCCUPY ALL ARAB LANDS, since their Religious leaders 'preach' the
Jihad."
Did I mention that there's a lot of hysteria and a lynch-mob
sentiment right now?
"You totally lost your credibility with me when you suggest that
any military response will basically serve no purpose."
The U.S. went to Vietnam to stop the Communist dominos from
falling, and the entire region fell to the Communists. The U.S.
invaded Panama, supposedly to end drug-dealing there, and today
Panama is more overrun with the drug trade than ever. After years
of arming Saddam Hussein, the U.S. invaded Iraq to get rid of him,
but he is still held up as a terrible threat to the world. The
U.S. bombed Libya to teach terrorists a lesson; so the terrorists
hijacked the Pan American plane over Scotland.
Perhaps you could give me an example of where U.S. military
response in the past several decades has achieved any purpose.
Obviously, the individuals involved in the attacks should be
found, prosecuted, and punished. But going to war against another
country or some vague conspiracy will solve no more than the
examples I just gave.
"At this time, past wrongful deeds committed by Americans should
not play a role in our reaction to this horrible event. We have to
retaliate once we confirm who is responsible. Otherwise, even more
horrific events are sure to occur in the future."
We _have_ retaliated in the past, and still horrific events
followed. What I'm hoping for is a different kind of reaction this
time -- one that will actually change American policy so that we
never again suffer what happened this week.
Corrections & Caution
"I would like to point out that the airliner destroyed over
Scotland was a PanAm plane, not TWA."
You are right. In my haste to get the article finished, I was
careless in relying on my imperfect memory and not looking it up.
"I put my Harry Browne for President stickers back up in my dorm
room yesterday."
Please -- take them down before you get lynched.
More to come . . .
---
Harry Browne was the 2000 Libertarian presidential candidate. You
can read more of his articles at http://www.HarryBrowne.org, and
his books are available at http://www.HBBooks.com.
|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|*|
FreedomWire is Harry Browne's email list. You are encouraged to
forward copies to friends and business associates, and to
reproduce any items herein as long as attribution is provided for
articles and the subscription instructions below are included.
To purchase Harry Browne's books online,
visit http://www.HBBooks.com
To read Harry Browne's commentaries online,
visit http://www.HarryBrowne.org
To join the Libertarian Party online,
visit http://www.lp.org/action/join.html
Black Blade
(9/14/01; 22:45:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61535)
RE: bp1 - Democracy
I too attack Democracy. Democracy is nothing more than Mob Rule. Personally, I prefer a Representative Republic like what we have in the US. I do not know of any Democracy in existence in today's world.
bp1
(9/14/01; 22:24:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61534)
Some thoughts
I am a long time gold investor, but I do not want profit from this massacre.
U.S.A. upholds democracy and freedom. I have been around the world, have lived in many political systems and cultures. I have concluded long time ago that the more the people hate U.S.A., the more ignorant those people are. Yes, America is not perfect, but this world without U.S.A. is a hell: Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Japanese emperor.
Make no mistake about it, this attack is an attack on democracy. These enemies are taking advantages of democracy and American sensibilities. They know We have to catch them, produce evidence, bring them to court and trial. They can deny, use lawyers and appeal. At the same time, they can plot another massacre.
Unfortunately, they are mistaken. America has waken up! Americans from now on will launch a new war. No tanks, missile, aircraft carriers. Instead we will organize a massive secret troop with local recruits. The mission of this troop is plain and simple: go, find, and kill. B.S. with trials, lawyers and appeals! B.S. with rights and justice. These concepts do not belong to those people! Terror for terror!
U.S.A. will triumph and prevail, ever and forever!!!
( I have been reading this forum EVERYDAY for more than three years now. Only now I realized that there are many evil spirits here and at Kitco, gold-eagle forum, they are using gold as a front to attack America. I thought (naively)they were discussing macro-economics, finance. America has waken up, I have waken up)
uponroof
(9/14/01; 22:06:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 61533)
sector
Good to see you my friend.
A question.......
Suppose POG does get away from them next week and JP/Chase starts going down hard. Japan, as fragile as a pane of glass against a 747, begins to break as do other connected entities around the world. What's to stop 'them' from declaring a halt to COMEX a la TOCOM and blaming it on the terrorists. This would then start the ball rolling on emergency POG price setting (275) and physical confiscation in the name of saving our wounded economy.
Now what patriotic American sheep could refuse that logic?
I am concerned this terrorist attack will become the excuse they were looking for. The public will swallow it hook, line, and sinker as they march to the FED's presses singing Yankee Doodle Dandy.
btw-we appreciate the amount of time you put in for the cause with GATA. We know it doesn't leave much time for anything else. If you change your mind the offer is always open.
Best always.
goldquest
(9/14/01; 22:06:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61532)
Sunday evening (in North America) will tell the tale
when the Asian markets open up. My guess is that gold is going to be grabbed up for whatever price. If you are not in the game by now, it is probably too late!
Side note: Major Japanese firms are evacuating their staff out of the countries bordering Afgahanistan.
sector
(9/14/01; 21:35:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61531)
The New COMEX...fooling no one except Leonard Kaplan
With their bullion buried the COMEX opened for business. Leonard Kaplan actually expected to trade. Talk about being out of the loop. From whom did he imagine delivery will come? Or most likely he isn't interested in delivery in which case what were he and the others doing swapping paper around?
His press quotes are a mishmash of convoluted logic. There is no New York gold "market" in the true sense of the word. It was crushed. The denial is thus palpable with so called electronic trading. It isn't trading if there is no metal to trade.
The LBMA's volume hit a four year low last month and don't expect much better this month. Many interpretations are possible but the simplest one is usually the best.
The traders don't want to trade at today's prices. Until Tuesday's paradigm.
I think the Saudis will take a reading from Washington regarding the nature, scope and intensity of the coming war and then early next week decide on physical.
It won't take much deciding to drown the shorts.
megatron
(9/14/01; 21:27:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61530)
Canuck you joker...
I'm still embarrased about my tirade. I stopped drinking and posting. Am so sad,lately, to be living in this socialist craphole of Canada. Wish I was in the US with real capitalists helping to get people out of the destruction so we can all make money again, the most harmless of activities. Power to the Individuals.
uponroof
(9/14/01; 21:07:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 61529)
Therapy
http://www.kral.no/bin-laden.swf
It's late at night here on the US eastern seaboard and open season on you know who.
sector
(9/14/01; 20:25:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61528)
@RPowell All that is needed is effective communication...
...there is not too much cunning required. Just effective communication between us, our allies and the enemy...an enemy bent on our destruction. An enemy state that trains, equips, finances and nurtures killers of the West's "The Infidels". An enemy whose religious institutions not only preach hate they infuse it at the kindergarten level. An enemy that created automata that commandeered our technology and murdered 5000 innocents. An enemy that has never accepted the ascendance of Western religions, philosophy or thought. An enemy that will as Ariel Sharon has said use nuclear weapons on us the instant they obtain them.
We can wait or we can communicate effectively.
R Powell
(9/14/01; 20:05:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61527)
Understand the enemy
How much did Lawrence of Arabia understand of the customs, thoughts and lives of those he fought with and against? It has been written that he became totally immersed in their culture and thought and knew them as well if not better than they knew themselves.
I would think it prudent to understand all I could of my enemy before engaging him in any manner. Have we not discussed the motives of those who endeaver to surpress the price of gold, their means, methods, rational, strengths and weaknesses? How do we fight the coming war on the propaganda front without understanding our enemy as well as he understands himself? We'll need to win this battle as much as the physical ones or we'll just creat martyrs.
We're going to need some cunning, deception, slyness, and a whole bunch of what are usually dispicable characteristics. Brute strength is desireable but must be used judiciously or it will be turned back upon us.
The whole thing is also going to catapult the POG, POS and POO upward, no? This is the rogue wave, the horseman, the unforeseen event. I wish we were still awaiting something else.
Rich
Old Yeller
(9/14/01; 20:01:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61526)
More from Leonard Kaplan
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-perl/bbs.pl?read=181303
Should be an interesting day on Monday.
auspec
(9/14/01; 19:40:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61525)
Next Week's Rules
Free {nearly} money for all, across the whole globe.
No selling or shorting {unpatriotic or outlawed}.
Exchanges closed if anything goes wrong.
US consumers are re-energized to borrow and consume!
Endless market promotions ahead w/o sports 'distractions'.
PPT on full alert and working overtime.
Fed rate cuts PRN.
Gold/Silver suppressed to 'the last bar of the last vault'.
Hell, I'm unloading my risky metals and going with the sure thing! Can a guy get a 120% home equity loan over the weekend?
uponroof
(9/14/01; 19:28:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61524)
Hummmmmmm.....angry gold traders
September 14, 2001
Members of Gold Traders DDBA (Deaf, Dumb, and Blind Association) are angry tonight.
Well, well, well....Mr Kaplan of Prospector Asset Management
is angry about market conditions. Seems members of the COMEX had an unfair advantage tonight. Mr Kaplan, there is this organization called 'GATA'. You know, the folks you ridiculed awhile back. Suggest instead of complaining, you JOIN!!!
Dow Jones Newswires
Nymex Access Session Stalls, Resumes, Angers Gold Traders
NEW YORK -- The New York Mercantile Exchange's abbreviated Access trading session Friday stalled after 10 minutes and restarted more than an hour later, but technical glitches and constraints on orders had many traders convinced the experimental session was ill-advised.
Trading of Nymex energy and metals contracts began on the exchange's Internet-based Access system at 2:30 p.m. EDT (1830 GMT) Friday, but was suspended within the first half hour when the system was overwhelmed by trading volume, Nymex spokeswoman Nachamah Jacobovits said.
Some traders voiced anger at how the opening of the session was handled, saying Comex members had an unfair advantage over non-members.
"What, at least for me, was most distressing and what (angered) my clients was that only members of Nymex could place price orders," said Leonard Kaplan, president of Prospector Asset Management in Evanston, Ill. "That's what I was told by my clearing firm. I was told that I could only place market orders."
By only accepting market orders, clearing houses force prospective buyers to buy at the lowest price bid and sell at the highest price offered, exposing them to potentially large losses, said Dave Meger, senior metals analyst at Chicago-based Alaron Trading.
"How can that be fair? I can't put a price order in? All that did was (anger) every client, every broker. It gave the Comex members an enormous advantage," Prospector's Kaplan said. "It wasn't a regular Access session. In regular Access session, you can place price orders."
For Frank McGhee, a dealer at Alliance Financial LLC in Chicago, Nymex mishandled how it started the Access system Friday.
"There were several member firms that were taking market orders only and only allowed orders after the opening, so prints above $300 were (due to an artificial order imbalance at lower prices)," he explained.
"We've never traded $300 in cash (in London) during this entire crisis," he added. "If they (Nymex officials) were being responsible, they would bust everything above $290, $291 (an ounce, basis December)."
Nymex spokeswoman Jacobovits countered that Comex member firms have the right to make any decision they want, but said she would apprise exchange officials of what happened to see if they wished to comment.
She also clarified that settlement prices Friday for gold and silver would be used as the basis for whether options on the December gold and silver contracts expire Friday in or out of the money. The settlement prices will be determined by the average of where prices trade in the final half-hour of trading, between 5:30 p.m. and 6:00 p.m. EDT (2130-2200 GMT), she added.
"It could just as easily have been Monday, set(ting) the price for options expiration based on the cash (price in London). That would have been more prudent," Alliance's McGhee said.
Nymex said it hoped to be able to offer another Access trading session Sunday, but couldn't say what time that session would begin. No decision had been made Friday evening about whether Access trading would be offered Monday. The exchange also couldn't say when regular open-outcry trading would resume, either at its building near the now-destroyed World Trade Center or at an alternate site.
Trading volume available at 5:10 p.m. EDT (2110 GMT) included: 4,083 contracts in Comex gold, 1,532 contracts in Comex silver and 80 contracts in Nymex platinum.
The exchange didn't provided volume figures for copper or palladium.
-By David Bogoslaw, Dow Jones Newswires; 201-938-2208; david.bogoslaw@dowjones.com
auspec
(9/14/01; 19:27:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61523)
Privateer
http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_01/hamilton091701.html
Adam Hamilton, aka Zelotes, from this GE link, certainly agrees with some of your concerns about potential curtailed US citizen freedoms.
Netking
(9/14/01; 19:17:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61522)
U.S. Stock Regulators Try to Head Off Panic for Monday . . . Agreement to "Prop up prices"
http://www.iht.com/articles/32685.html
Snippet:
Rules Relaxed to Ensure an Orderly Opening
In advance of the planned reopening of U.S. stock markets Monday, major securities firms and corporations have reached an extraordinary agreement to prop up prices by buying shares if a flood of sell orders threatens to send the markets into a free-fall, industry and government sources said.
Cisco Systems Inc. was the first major corporation to take advantage of the joint Washington-Wall Street initiative, announcing on Friday plans to buy back $3 billion - or less than 3 percent - of its own stock. Cisco's stock skidded from $63 a share to $14.45 in the past year as demand for the Internet computer equipment it makes slipped.
Federal securities regulators have made it clear they will permit these and other market practices that might raise legal questions in ordinary circumstances, the sources said. Harvey Pitt, the Securities and Exchange Commission chairman, alluded to the informal accord Wednesday when he said the agency would make it as easy as possible for companies to buy back their own shares and would open a hot line for brokers and companies with questions about proper trading practices. . . "
------------------------------------------------------------
As GATA have said, when the POG get's past $300, get ready for it to "explode" (I won't grizzle too much if it takes silver as well). These moves being planned to prop up the market are similar to building castles of sand against the tide, they might give an impressive facade but they will not last as they have no substance. The best thing from this point on is "be prepared". . . position yourself & your loved ones, be out of paper(or be ready to jump out very soon)and be in to physical PM's.(IMVHO) - Netking
Cavan Man
(9/14/01; 18:48:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61521)
Heinous Crimes
(in Parlous Times)
1. WTC Attack
2. Oak City Bombing
Causes? Remedies?
AEL
(9/14/01; 18:48:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61520)
The U.S. and the Taliban
http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01/n922/a09.html
Los Angeles Times
May 22, 2001
Bush's Faustian Deal With the Taliban
By Robert Scheer
Enslave your girls and women, harbor anti-U.S. terrorists, destroy
every vestige of civilization in your homeland, and the Bush
administration will embrace you. All that matters is that you line
up as an ally in the drug war, the only international cause that
this nation still takes seriously.
That's the message sent with the recent gift of $43 million to the
Taliban rulers of Afghanistan, the most virulent anti-American
violators of human rights in the world today. The gift, announced
last Thursday by Secretary of State Colin Powell, in addition to
other recent aid, makes the U.S. the main sponsor of the Taliban
and rewards that "rogue regime" for declaring that opium growing
is against the will of God.... [more at the URL].....
Cavan Man
(9/14/01; 18:46:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61519)
Privateer
Correct.
slingshot
(9/14/01; 18:29:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 61518)
Solomon Weaver Msg#61515
Eyes of the Enemy
Good Evening Solomon. Always good to read your posts.
A few comments. In the end in both movies Good overcomes Evil and they were the good guys in those spaceships.
I have some dissagreement with Sierras opinions,but respect them just the same.
Yes,we do not see the world from the eyes of the enemy. We probaly never will because of religious, geographical and finanicial, political and language factors. Considering these points, the philosophy of making war is different from
nation to nation.
This will make this next war the most dangerous and escalation most probable.
Make no mistake! This will not be like Desert Storm.
Slingshot
site steward
(9/14/01; 18:29:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61517)
A tally -- demonstrating how quickly and easily money can be created upon adequate "political will"
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010914/n14649370_1.html
HEADLINE: US Fed steps up bid to keep global markets liquid
The tally:
Open market operations today resulted in the creation of $81.25 billion for banking reserves through the monetization of various collateral via repurchase agreements. Special note: the Fed has not specified (such that I could find) what the duration of today's repo agreements were.
Additionally, the Fed has negotiated agreements for swap facilities above and beyond the levels of long-standing swap lines with several central banks.
Currently set for expiration in thirty days are $50 billion, $30 billion, and $10 billion available swap lines with the ECB, the Bank of England, and the Bank of Canada, respectively.
To the extend that these facilities are drawn upon, it represents, in the truest sense, money that is created out of thin air; creating double the value of the swap owing to the reciprocal nature of these currency credit lines.
That's a lot of breezy moolah blowing around on the currents of a financial crisis. Are you adequately anchored with gold?
R.
barnacle bill
(9/14/01; 18:18:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61516)
quote of the day?
This is from the ino.com forum search- gold.
"The next time I am short gold or oil, I'll
protect myself with call options".
Solomon Weaver
(9/14/01; 17:58:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61515)
For Sierra
Sierra
Although I am occassionly affected by an "emotional" reaction to some points in your posts, I have a very high level of respect for your willingness to speak your mind, and your fairly logical approach. You are welcome here and I will read.
Something which Americans do not do well is to truely attempt to see the world from the eyes of their enemy.
If you have seen the movie "Independance Day"...there is the closing scene, where against all odds, but with all their forces, a single fighter jet is somehow able to pierce the tiny point in the massive mother ship and deliver a death blow to the massive invading force....not unlike the scene in Starwars where Luke Skywalker uses the small jet fighter to deliver destruction to an entire death star. Now, from the eyes of our enemy, these men who took their training and some box cutters, and created $20 billion of insurance payments, another $20-50 billion in Western GDP reduction, as well as massive reductions in the capital balance sheets of the west, probably increasing the value of oil, and delivering the greatest psychological blow ever on American soil....well from their side it must seem like a Hollywood Movie where the Underdog wins.
Does recognizing how the "enemy" views the situation mean I agree with him?
Poor old Solomon
Privateer
(9/14/01; 17:49:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61514)
A Truly chilling news story
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/htx/nm/20010914/ts/attack_congress_law_dc_1.html
This news story is as predictable as it is tragic. It is the most chilling outcome of the September 11 atrocity I have yet found.
miner49er
(9/14/01; 17:45:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61513)
NetKing@61501
If we were to engage in such a joint mission, it seems to me that Putin's agenda is really to have us soften things up a bit, and do it on our nickel, so that when we pull out (and all this is real, REAL, high-level speculation), he can finish off what they were unable to do in the 80's.
If my memory serves me correctly, the Soviet's wanted Afghanistan because they couldn't get through Iran. And does anyone remember why it was important to get through Iran? If you said, "warm water port," you would be absolutely correct.
The Fabian-istic Soviets would have liked to have taken Afghanistan, and then moved through Pakistan to the Indian Ocean. It also would have given them a nice seaside view of the Gulf of Oman.
Russia sees an opportunity to have someone else use their firepower, score political points all over as the good-guy and ally, cause the Chinese to rethink "policy," and potentially inch closer to the beach... a regular win-win for Vladimir...
R Powell
(9/14/01; 17:29:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61512)
Sojourner
The ancient Greeks knew that God(s) have to be involved in wars. They, however, were lucky enough to have many of them so that some could support the Trojans and some the Greeks during the many years that war was fought at the gates of Troy. I guess the combined powers of the many gods aligned on each side must have been about equal since that war lasted a reported 20 years.
The Crusades, of which there were seven, gained very little except slaughter. Apparently the God of the Christians was opposed by a God of equal strength during those many wars. Perhaps if organised religion were a bit more tolerant and a bit less righteous. Sorry to be off-topic.
Rich
Sojourner
(9/14/01; 17:06:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61511)
StrandMaster
"....Sudanese killed Christians..." What about the analogy being, "Catholics and Protestants killing each other in Ireland with their terrorism extending to all of Great Britain?" Now we have Christian against Christian. Or we could use, "Christians killing Moslems in the ME during the Crusades". Or we could use, "Christians killing Moslems in Serbia and Bosnia".
The point I'M trying to make is that throughout history, most, not all but most, wars have been fought because of religious beliefs. Each one claiming God on their side and some praying to God to help them kill their opponent and some saying that fighting another belief system has been dictated by God (the Old Testament has a lot of that).
I detest war or discord. I do believe in freedom to choose your own belief and disagree with others, but I think differences can be settled in ways other than war. I am VERY sad about happenings this week and have shed many tears, but I do think that governments (or the true rulers) are responsible for it. I do hope that our country will keep religion and government separate.
P.S. Very few people choose their religion. They are born into it.
R Powell
(9/14/01; 16:56:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61510)
Only what I agree with?
Voyager
Concerning Sierra Madre you stated, "If it were up to me, I would pull your posting privilege."
Would you pull the plug on everyone who posted something that you don't agree with? Or just those who post something that you strongly disagree with? Or is it very, very strongly disagree with?
Please, sir, post the rules of censorship for me.
There are rules of etiquette listed on the entrance to the forum. I saw none regarding the prohibition of free expression of opinion. Freedom of speech some call it.
Was it Voltaire who said something to the effect,
"Sir, I disagree with what you say but I will defend till the death your right to say it."
The first casualties of war are always truth and civil liberties. Concerning exactly what you and Sierra were discussing I offer no comment.
Rich
lamprey_65
(9/14/01; 16:49:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61509)
Who wins, who loses?
First, I have to say I agree with much of what you posted, mhchuck...just remember that it's such a minority opinion in today's world...most could care less if the banking system is rotten -- it's all they know.
OK, as I see it SO FAR -- who wins, who loses?
Winners:
ISREAL -- No explanation needed, I think.
Russia -- Taliban, Chechens....Putin can do pretty much as he sees fit with them now, WITH U.S. backing.
China -- They watch and wait.
Precious metals investors...especially the physical holders.
Losers:
The Arab people -- A real tragedy for the everyday Arab.
United States -- The country continues to lose respect and power.
American People --- The people continue to see their freedoms erode.
The Bullion Banks --- Physical gold is now overtaking paper gold in importance...their WORST NIGHTMARE!
On the fence...
Europe. Pros and Cons here...too early to tell yet.
Buena Fe
(9/14/01; 16:28:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 61508)
Way to go CBS!
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?guid=%7B3D0257AA%2D734F%2D4C23%2DBCAA%2D2D4ED52DE43D%7D&siteid=mktw
Gold futures jump in Access trading.
.........The Commodities Exchange division of the Nymex remained closed for regular trading Friday, but Nymex Internet-based Access trading opened at 2:30 p.m. Eastern time for major futures contracts trading. "Technical difficulties" forced the New York Mercantile Exchange to suspend trading for an hour shortly after the open, but the exchange extended Access trading to 6 p.m. to make up for it.............
-------------------------------
WE NEED TO WATCH THE FOLLOWING FUND MANAGER TO SEE HOW LONG THEY ALLOW THE MEDIA TO QUOTE HIM! BECAUSE HE STRIKES AT THE HEART OF THE ISSUE.
------------------------------
................John Mesrobian, president of Constantinople Advisors in Williamsburg, Va. argued that there is actually very little real physical gold around to borrow and that bullion banks are "in trouble," because they can't deliver and warehouse stocks were low to begin with.........
------------------------------
I THINK I JUST HEARD THE ANGLES SING!
goldquest
(9/14/01; 16:27:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61507)
Canuck
Thanks. I just discovered that! If you click on "Back to Breaking News," and scroll down, you should find the article. Good luck!
Canuck
(9/14/01; 16:19:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 61506)
Goldquest
The link is alraedy dead!!!
Canuck
(9/14/01; 16:17:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61505)
Please explain
Posts at G-E are commenting about 'liquidation only' re: NYMEX, COMEX etc. for next week. See 17:51, 17:50, 17:41, 17:28, 17:13, 17:03 and especially 16:54. What does this mean, new paper rules?
Buena Fe
(9/14/01; 16:15:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61504)
bits
http://finance.lycos.com/home/livecharts/
mhchuck........... very well said! Much food for thought!
Don't forget Henry Ford's words; "It is well enough that the people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning!"
__________________________________________________
I'm watching the December comex contract trade (30 minute delay) GCZ1, in late after hours. I get the VERY distinct feeling that the CABAL needs to vent gold ASAP and try and manage perceptions! I think TG is right in one thing, the waring CB's (Fed/ECB) will sell the paper to the ground!(they have differing agenda's but the same execution method?) Men's perception of the pricing power of the NY/London Gold traders (hence bankers) must be broken before gold will be free again to represent "true wealth".
This will take an "act of God", in my opinion (not terrorism).
goldquest
(9/14/01; 16:15:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61503)
Comex Gold Jumps on Access Before Halt
http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/breaking/breakingnewsarticle.asp?
Gold went to $300 after Comex opened. They shut it right down citeing "Technical Reasons!" Yeah! Sure!
Canuck
(9/14/01; 16:04:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61502)
The future
In stating the obvious, it has been a very long horrible week. I am at home now, cellulars and pagers have been turned off and the fridge has been opened, perhaps the first of many times this evening. If I post again this evening please ignore, it will be 'beer-induced' blabberish.
Hello Megatron, how are you buddy!!
I believe we are at a critical junctor in this episode, describe it as you may, involving 2 issues. Before I elaborate........
Tidbits:
Nasdaq is apparently running a full blown 'mock' session of a very heavy trading day tomorrow (Saturday) morning. Looks like they are seriously looking to get the ball rolling for Monday morning. Sectors of the economy have taken a monumental beating in the last couple days. The modest rebound of Thursday was reversed and beaten badly today, the TSE300 is sub-7000 (approx. 6880), 'energies' had a decent rebound today, unhedged golds are running away to the upside. Sherry Cooper, chief economist for BMO-Nesbitt-Burns (Canadian equivalent of a AJC) has predicted a 'mild recession in the short-term", apparently "consumer confidence has been rattled". Where do they find these geniuses?
So.......looking forward and in terms of gold I would like to bat around 2 issues this week-end.
1) The U.S. markets are set to open Monday. What is going to happen? What is the impact of the massive paper injection? What will happen without 2 WTC buildings? What about the relocate of numerous offices? Where is Comex and the gold? What about the (delicately) the missing traders? What about a lock-up with derivatives? Will we witness a paper/physical separation? Generally, what is going to the massive, backlogged financial trading?
2) How's bombing who and how much? How large is the 'retaliation' going to be? When will it start? Will it start? Is WWIII a possibility? Will battles escalate into a war, a confined war or the biggie, 'nukes'? What's going to happen?
Have a nice week-end?
Canuck
Netking
(09/14/01; 15:39:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61501)
"US use our bases for joint strike against militant Islam" - Vladimir Putin
http://www.nypost.com/news/nationalnews/32524.htm
Snippet:
The Bush administration is talking with Russia about using former Soviet military bases in central Asia as staging areas for massive military assaults on Osama bin Laden, The Post has learned.
Senior diplomatic officials in both countries revealed last night that plans to use two Russian bases in Tajikistan - and the former Soviet air base at Bagram inside a portion of Afghanistan under the control of anti-Taliban forces - are at the center of ongoing talks between the United States and Russia.
Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose country has been victimized by terror bombings of Moscow apartment buildings linked to bin Laden, has revived an offer he made a year ago for the United States to use bases in Tajikistan for possible joint operations against bin Laden and the ruling Taliban in Afghanistan.
Secretary of State Colin Powell said President Bush spoke twice by phone to Putin on Wednesday about joint measures the two former Cold War rivals might take to combat their common enemy: militant Islam. . . . "
Max Rabbitz
(09/14/01; 15:39:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 61500)
Strad Master
Well said.
Voyager
(09/14/01; 15:38:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61499)
Sierra Madre
If it were up to me, I would pull your posting privilege. I will never read another word you post here.
Have you thought about becoming press secretary for the taliban?
R Powell
(09/14/01; 15:37:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61498)
Trading
According to the peoples stock market channel there was some trading in both precious metals and oil today but it only lasted for 14 minutes in oil and less than 30 minutes in metals. This was done on the electronic internet system which apparently couldn't handle the volume and seized up. It was reported that it was suspended due to technical problems. POG shot up $26 and settled (when the system went down) up $10. at $290. No price mentioned for silver or oil but it was mentioned that oil was up.
Also, after talking to my broker in Chicago I was notified that all open, working orders (those open but not yet filled) were no longer working- they no longer exist.
Please understand this pertains to what are called "open orders good till canceled" NOT previously filled orders. Existing positions still exist.
Also, for the electronic internet system, which didn't last long, only futures orders were being accepted.
I think Monday will be a tough day not only for the markets but also for order placement. I intend to re-place my lost open orders sometime Sunday night as I think placing them after the markets open Monday (if they do) may be hard to do.
This info concerns the paper traders among us. For the physical only advocates, please go easy on the negative feedback, I too hold physical silver and know that buying paper gold and silver may be settled only in fiat. In fact, that is exactly what I'm trying to do, get a large fiat settlement from a small fiat investment.
It appears that stock market rules are being changed to allow companies to purchase large amounts of their own shares to support the market. There is also talk of limiting large short sales. Will we hear talk of short sellers being unamerican? Will blind patriotism and massive Fed. injections of money stop the bear and reverse the markets to the upside? Will the market volume simply overwhelm the backup systems being brought into use on Monday? Physical gold was never affordable for some of us, how long for silver with the country at war and no silver in government storage?
Any thoughts?
Rich
mhchuck
(09/14/01; 15:31:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61497)
What are we all, if not innocent civilians caught in the crossfire between criminal factions that want to rule world?
My First USAGOLD post was in December 1999. It relates how years ago I took it upon myself to learn the nature of the monetary system so that I might protect my future earnings. Because I am conservative and prudent, I chose Gold as my savings vehicle. Well, the Gold Cabal, being what they are, to use a familiar euphemism, "screwed" me royally (and many, many others of course.) These criminals are like termites in that they feed on paper, they promote the stock market as a "savings vehicle" when in truth it is a gambling casino. The real saving vehicle is Gold, but in their corruption and deception they have seized and manipulated gold. Gold and Freedom are the mortal enemies of bankers. If gold were a "free" market, I would have never posted a word in my life. But since these thieving criminals have robbed me of honest earnings, while they have never truly earned a penny or worked a day in their lives. I thought I might pass on the truth of their scheme. My prior posts, I think, have done precisely that.
It stuck me yesterday how these terrorists were continually being called cowards. I thought to post my reaction to this, but feared reprisal from posters and lurkers. I feared I might be thought as taking sides with the terrorists. But that NEVER would be the case. I love my country and it's citizens and am deeply distressed by what occurred Tuesday, but I deplore the leaders of my country and the lack of representation of my fellow citizens and myself. Then I saw a message posted of a letter by Harry Brown that echoed my sentiments and it emboldened me to post after all. Now as I go to post this message, I see Allan C also shares parts of my perspective. Normally, I don't look for company, but the nature of this issue caused me to pause, and pause again.
This act, despicable as it was, was an act of supreme bravery by the perpetrators because they KNEW beforehand they would die. The Japanese banzai pilots of WWII were similarly courageous as I see it. Do you want to know an act of cowardice? How about American bomber pilots who have virtually NO RISK of being shot down cruising over Bagdad, killing 500,000 innocent civilians. Colin Powell said today, "This is not just war, this is war against civilization." Tell me Mr. Powell, what kind of war it is you are conducting for the gold cabal that has killed 500,000 civilians in Iraq? Oh, excuse me, you mean your war is PRO civilization.
First, we must stop making distinctions between Government and Bankers. They are the same, or simply put, the bankers ARE the government. Understand the full implications of what Baron Rothschild meant when he stated, "Give me the power to create a nations currency and I care not who makes the laws." This should clear the picture for most. The politicians are puppets of the bankers whose mouths move when stings are pulled. The modus operandi of the Gold Cabal, AKA, the faction that surreptitiously overthrew the constitution of the United States, is to offer for public consumption the diametrical opposite of the truth in almost all instances. I call it mhchuck's law of inverse truth as applied to the statements of the gold cabal and their lackey politicians. Thus when all the politicians say this was an act of cowardice, it was really an act of bravery. When President Bush says, "Freedom was attacked," the bankers mean Totalitarianism (their system) was attacked. Just give it some thought; what freedom could he be referring to? The "free" market in gold? The "free" market in equities? The freedom to have your own beliefs (Waco)? Freedom to home school and raise your family in a rural setting (Ruby Ridge)? The freedom to protest the unconstitutional voluntary income tax system (Gordon Kahl)? The answer to all of these questions is "Murdered Dead."
I see some formerly rational posters have been caught up in an emotional wave to annihilate these terrorists. They deserve it, but what about their intended target? Most of you, it seems, believe (or have been led to believe) in my opinion that the prime target was American Citizens. I doubt that. They cannot see their target so they strike at its symbols. I concur with Sierra Madre, Black Blade, and President George Washington well before them; you don't meddle in the conflicts of other nations. Why? Because a friend of my enemy is also my enemy. President Bush said as much when he stated, "No distinction would be made between terrorists and those who harbor them." If the perpetrators of this terrible act that took the lives of innocent American citizens were Islamic, then you know why they came here. It wasn't to brutally murder American citizens. It was to strike at the same people we as Gold holders have come to despise.
I must tell you, I would feel terrible if in any way my thoughts would be construed as condoning terrorism or being insensitive to the human life that was taken yesterday. I realize it could have been my loved ones victimized by this tragedy. My sincere condolences go out to the families of the victims. I condemn this action, but want to make the point that it is my belief that the target of the terrorist's anger and the target of the gold holders ire is one and the same.
If you read "The Creature from Jekyll Island," you will understand that it is no coincidence that the FED has presided over the bloodiest century in human history. The Gold Cabal is responsible for the death of millions of people without the slightest compunction, and then, not surprisingly, preaches non-violence.
Any enemy of gold is an enemy of Economic Freedom (Mr. Greenspan says this in "Gold and Economic Freedom"). Economic and Personal Freedom are inextricably bound together. Gold is the basis for moral dealings in the economic world. We clearly know the enemies of gold and Economic Freedom along with its concomitant Personal Freedom, GATA has done the legwork for us…the banks. That's why they instructed their politician lackeys to confiscate citizens gold in 1933. This was a most corrupt, unjust, criminal act. They did it under the guise of National Security for the benefit of the citizens. Applying mhchuck's law of inverse truth to their statements, they did if for the security of banks, and for the benefit of their private owners.
As for the politicians throughout the world, almost all are seduced by the banker's illusion and play the game. I know people who fervently play this game of untruth, and they literally hate me for reminding them of the truth. It is easy to become ensnared in this dishonest game since it offers great riches, privilege, and power, and many are seduced, take the formerly principled Mr. Greenspan for example. It is not hard to imagine other unprincipled men rising to leadership roles while selling out their citizens and keeping the money issue (gold) in a nebulous cloud.
Banks are not extensions of Government, but Governments are now extensions of banks. The founding fathers knew this relationship would evolve if private banks were allowed to print a nations currency let alone the world's currency. Baron Rothschild knew this too as evidenced by the quote above.
"If the American People ever allow private banks to control the issuance of their
currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that
will grow up around them will deprive the people of all property until their children
wake up homeless on the continent their fathers occupied. The issuing power of
money should be taken from the bankers and restored to Congress and the people
to whom it belongs. I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing
power of money are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson.
Bill Murphy, Chris Powell, James Turk and the whole GATA team are in the mold of the founding fathers. Trail Guide is in the mold of bankers.
mhchuck
I would like to say a big hi to ET, Journeyman, Perplexed, and Topaz. I miss your comments as well of those of several other now absent posters including Elevator Guy.
Sierra Madre
(9/14/01; 14:24:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61496)
Other views...
Well, although I have been attributed an "agenda" by those who have differing opinions, I have in fact no agenda; I just have some opinions that may be based on facts (I think they are) but others evaluate things differently. If I stated, for example, that the Moon is made of green cheese, no one would pay the least attention. But if I criticize US consistent support for Israel, then it raises a lot of dander. What does that mean? That means I have touched a very MEANINGFUL nerve.
When the prevailing opinions are voiced, I rarely see anyone being accused of having an "agenda". Majorities form crowds, majorities are led into bubbles (we know that!) majorities are generally intolerant and capable of tarring and feathering. I am certainly glad I am not an Arab with a wife and family in the US, at the moment. I am not a majority; I am a minority of one. So what does it matter what I say?
This is a precious metals forum and I for one, hope we can get back to precious metals a.s.a.p. for there we are all in agreement.
So I will pass and not enter into any further polemic. Those of you who in the future may happen to remember what I have said here - not likely - when the bloodshed eventually ceases, as it must, may then regard my pleading for restraint and more intelligence from the US leadership as understandable. There will be books written about how the US could have avoided the catastrophe, and avoided having the blood of innocent millions on its hands.
++++++++++
It seems to me that gold is acting strangely (going up!) and maybe next week when TSHTF as they say over at the "other" site, we'll see some more unusual action.
Even lowly silver is up (eight cents?!). Goodness, there must really be a crisis!
Sierra
Netking
(9/14/01; 14:11:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61495)
Black Blade / WAC (Wide Awake Club) - Ansett
http://smh.com.au/news/0109/15/national/national1.html
WAC/BB - It was a sad day . . . 16,000 jobs lost in one stroke of the pen(Australian record) and 47,000 stranded passengers. Anger & blaming was evident between the two countries with recriminations flowing on both sides of the Tasman. . . . a time for cool heads & for healing.
Meanwhile. . . . "Bonuses for Air NZ execs amid the wreckage"
http://nzherald.co.nz/storydisplay.cfm?storyID=216875&thesection=business&thesubsection=transport
Matt
(9/14/01; 14:05:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 61494)
Re: PH in LA/StradMaster--
Totally agree, your messages are right on--the U.S. has also given tons of money to Egypt as well. If we don't try to excercise some restraint on Israel, they well have the capacity to burn up Damascus, Tehran, Islamabad and Iraq's capital.
Heard our state congressman on radio over lunchtime tell an interviewer that PTB were considering impeding or preventing short selling on Monday/next week---wow!! They are really worried.
White Hills
(9/14/01; 13:56:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61493)
Strad Master
Hear!Hear! If I had known you were going to Post I would have SHUT MY MOUTH. You hit the nail on the head, the fly ball over the fence, the hole in one ,I salute you, White Hills
uponroof
(9/14/01; 13:50:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61492)
WHERE IS THE WORLD GOLD COUNCIL !!??
rant on:
WHERE IS THE WORLD GOLD COUNCIL!!??
As the world sits on the precipice of global chaos......
With the threat of nuclear and biological weapon use now very real...
With world banks into an all out flooding of worthless unbacked paper, propping up a gravely damaged system...
With longstanding rules of market commerece being changed as casually as a television channel...
With the largest international houses of trade turned into a pile of rubble...
THE WORLD GOLD COUNCIL IS PEDDLING JEWELLERY IN FASHION MAGAZINES!!!!
If there ever was a time to reach out to the people of this world with the hope of financial safety through timeless wealth, THIS IS THE TIME!!! To remain silent as lifelong savings turn to smoke as if jet fuel, is nothing less than criminal.
Make no mistake, the fiat masters are fighting to remain in control through this catastrophe. While they portray their efforts as 'for the good of the world' it is anything but.
NOW IS THE TIME!!!...
FOR THE PATHETICALLY HAPLESS WORLD GOLD COUNCIL TO EDUCATE THE MASSES AS TO THE ETERNAL, EVERLASTING, UNDENIABLE, SURE VALUE OF GOLD. IT IS IN EVERY INDIVIDUAL'S BEST INTEREST TO NOW OWN GOLD.
But of course....I forgot. The 'WORLD GOLD COUNCIL' is nothing but a sham. A front for those in the gold industry who have been corrupted. Who have become perverse bankers instead of miners. Who use their gold mines to impliment the fiat masters control plan.
Stupid me for ever thinking 'THE WORLD GOLD COUNCIL' would actually step forward, at such an obvious moment in time, with their 52 million American dollars for advertising AND EXPLAIN WHY OWNING GOLD BULLION/COINS IS ADVANTAGEOUS!!!!
rant off
White Hills
(9/14/01; 13:49:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61491)
Global Clash
Sierra Madre, Just one question. If we hadn't helped Israel all those years what do you suppose would have happened? I believe this is the event much discuused on this Forum. An event that would start the crash of the dollar. I am a novice when it comes to economics , a fact I readily admit, but WAR is different. If I commanded Israels army I would strike NOW even if I had to invent a reason to do so. Israel will never be stronger than it is right now and the Arabs will never be weaker, only stronger. With the attack on the World Trade Center in NY, the political climate will never be better than right now. If Israel has decided that they cannot live with the Arab and are planning WAR, which I think they are, then what ever time table they had ready may be changed . They would have the full support of the American people. Too long have they endured the terrorist bombs and killing of civilians. It should be a interesting weekend, White Hills
Strad Master
(9/14/01; 13:48:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 61490)
Sierra Madre
Thoughts
I've read your many postings on this forum concerning the recent evil in New York with much saddness. Either by accident or design you appear to be ignorant of the facts surrounding the United States and its relationship with Israel. I won't try to dissuade you from your erroneous beliefs since from long and hard experience I've learned that if one has an agenda to support, then contradictory facts are largely irrelevant. To try and enlighten someone with such a mindset is merely an exercize in frustration and futility. Suffice it to say that to suppose this act of evil is the result of US support for Israel is like saying that these people blew up the WTC because Sierra Madre wore a green tie on Tuesday. There is no conflict between the US and Islam. There is now a declared war between Western civilization and Isamists. Islamists are the people who have murdered (many by crucifixion) thousands of Christians in the Sudan. Which has nothing to do with Israel. Islamists are the people in Afghanistan who force Hindus to wear identifying patches on their clothing - á la Hitler's Germany. Which has nothing to do with Israel. Islamists are the people who wiped out pricxeless ancient stone Buddahs in Afghanistan. Which has nothing to do with Israel. Islamists are the peoplw who enslave non-Muslims in Mauritania. Which has nothing to do with Israel. Islamists are the people who pack bombs with large nails, strap them to their bodies, and then go into a crowded pizzeria to kill and maim as many innocent women children as possible. This, obviously, has to do with Israel, but the primary reason they hate Israel is because it is the only outpost of Western Civilization in the midst of an otherwise theocratically totalitarian region.
The mastermind of this attack, Osama bin Laden, has been repeatedly critized by his own allies for not being more concerned with Israel. His biggest beef is with the Saudis for, in his mind, permitting the holiest sites of Mecca and Medina to be defiled by infidels. Since the US supports the Saudi royal family, we become the target of his rage. But it is a terrible mistake to suppose that Osama bin Laden, sitting in a cave in Afghanistan - afraid to even use a cell phone for fear of discovery - is solely to blame for this and that if we just "bring him to justice" all will be well again. This vicious evil was sponsored, and organized by the likes of Iraq, Iran, Lybia, and Syria and they need to pay the price for it.
Sadly, the reason this vile attack succeeded is because of the systematic emasculation of the CIA and FBI by the well-meaning but misguided left wing in this country. Political assasinations of evil leaders have been forbidden because it offends their delicate sensibilities. The scut work of down and dirty intelligence gathering and response is forbidden lest it upset the likes of the ACLU. Now, we are paying dearly for our utopian fantasies about the rest of the world. I pray that it is not too late to reverse course.
PH in LA
(9/14/01; 13:42:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 61489)
Global clash between "The West and Islam"?
"It might be useful to remember that if the US had not been for many years, assisting Israel to the tune of $5 billion a year, this horror would NOT have happened." Sierra Madre (9/14/01; 11:33:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61483)
Sierra:
Assisting Israel is one thing. The manner of that assistance is another.
If the U. S. had not stood by and/or congratulated Israel every time she bombed some Palestinian refugee camp in so-called "retaliation" for a suicidal zealot that chose to blow himself up in the town square, we would also not be in this place at this time. Such "state-sponsored terrorism" as practised by Israel all these many years is akin to sending bombers up against the state of Michigan in "retaliation" for the Unibomber's crimes. Their actions were always only designed to create more fanatics... more hatred... etc. Of course, the man-in-the-street in Israel (and in the US who supports her) is way to stupid to understand this. They still want to think in terms of "punishment", "justice" and "an-eye-for-an-eye" even if it means just any eye. Unfortunately, humanity can no longer afford this level of stupidity, as the situation in NY and Washington so horribly demonstrates.
At the same time, if the "hotheads" do not prevail, and no further terrorist attacks are forthcoming such as "say chemical, biological or against nuclear plants... which can seriously impair America's war capabilities" that would not necessarily prevent "everyone's future regret". Those who council inaction while we wait for the next horror can be sure that the next terror will be worse than this one. Otherwise it won't qualify as "terror". And that puts us directly back on track to "everyone's future regret".
The terrorist mentality must be extinguished! We have no other option anymore!
Humanity has evolved beyond this particular stupid idea!
Mr Gresham
(9/14/01; 12:16:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 61488)
Fed adds $81.25 bln in temporary banking reserves
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010914/nat000244_1.html
Yikes!
Mr Gresham
(9/14/01; 12:14:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61487)
Plan to prop up markets: Wash. Post
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=181151
"...major securities firms and corporations have reached an extraordinary agreement to prop up prices by buying shares if a flood of sell orders threatens to send the markets into a free fall, industry and government sources said yesterday.
"Federal securities regulators have made it clear they will permit these and other market practices that might raise legal questions in ordinary circumstances, the sources said."
Mr Gresham
(9/14/01; 12:08:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61486)
More views
http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm
nm
Belgian
(9/14/01; 11:47:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 61485)
@ WAC
Haven't heard anything about shortage of Gold at BBL (ING) or any others, recently. But don't wait to find out and call (tollfree) our host, CPM !! No time to waste !(er is genoeg)
Sierra Madre
(9/14/01; 11:44:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61484)
Sir Gresham: Carmina Burana Lyrics
http://www.classical.net/music/comp.lst/works/orff-cb/carmlyr.html
This is the site for complete Carmina Burana Lyrics
Good to bookmark it.
Sierra
Sierra Madre
(9/14/01; 11:33:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61483)
Global clash between "The West and Islam"?
It smells to me more like a global clash between Israel and Islam, with the US as a willing pawn.
The horror of the WTC towers and Pentagon might be a "Pearl Harbor" type incident calculated to provoke the unthinking rage of the US to do someone else's work. Of course, when Pearl Harbor occurred, no one thought of anything but "Smash the Japs!" Anyone daring to ask WHY the Japanese thought it necessary to resort to war, would have been regarded as a traitor.
Things to look for: if there are further attacks - say chemical, biological or against nuclear plants, or which can seriously impair America's war capabilities, then we can probably regard some Islamic countries as actually fighting the US on its own soil. Otherwise, I will continue to speculate that this NYC horror was a provocation.
It might be useful to remember that if the US had not been for many years, assisting Israel to the tune of $5 billion a year, this horror would NOT have happened.
Unfortunately, the hotheads will probably prevail. To everyone's future regret.
Sierra
I
ORO
(9/14/01; 11:21:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61482)
Technology exports and the wrong solution
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24466
Technology exports from the US allowed the terrorists to avoid NSA eavesdropping.
The peoposed solutions: (1) putting back tight technology export restrictions. (2) Extend NSA eavesdropping capabilities.
Both solutions are wrong.
The export restrictions would simply cause the export of the industry outside the US as foreign customers would buy existing technology from third parties and obtain alternatives from foreign sources. Encryption is a knowledge industry. While information is easy to hide, knowledge is impossible to hide, and could relatively easily be rediscovered if the low cost provider is not forthcoming. The commercial lead would go to black market information technology firms in India, China, etc. because they would obtain better pricing then US counterparts from customers restricted or delayed by the US export restrictions.
The end result of these restrictions would be not only the availability of the technology anyway, but also the decimation of the domestic encryption/privacy industry who would loose the bulk of their market and their technological lead. This would result in the US never again having the lead in encryption/privacy ever again. With this technology being essential to trade and transaction settlement, the US would also loose its technological lead in this field of technology. Because this automated secure transaction technology is also the core source of the superior performance of US based financial institutions in applying financial models (the efficacy of the models themselves is irrelevant here because over time those that work are those that are kept, so that leadership in the underlying technology allows discovery of the superior financial models by the firm applying it); this lead would also be lost.
The end result is a loss of US leadership in all the technological and commercial fields that make up the US economy's future. The beneficiaries would be India, China, Taiwan, Israel, Netherlands, Denmark, etc.. The US would become dependent on exports of technology from these.
Ineffectiveness of the NSA:
Furthermore, it is easy to bait the NSA into revealing their eavesdropping capability by putting out false conversations that are sure to cause a publicly discernable reaction if they are intercepted. Thus technology use by privacy seekers (legitimate as well as malicious terrorists) would simply shift forward to the next generation technology as the eavesdropping capacity of the NSA expands.
Outside of the terrorists, many if not most commercial private conversations/data require that the NSA not be able to eavesdrop on them because the information, not being of importance to national security, would leak out of the NSA into the hands of competitors and malicious politicians intent on capturing regulatory power over the commercial activities. Thus NSA capacities force all commercial interests and private asset holders into using technology that the NSA can't break. Thus the only people that the NSA can get are those that have nothing to hide – that is you and me. Their targets will forever be ahead, while the rest of us both lose our right to privacy, attorney–client privilege, freedom of the press etc. and enables the government to stop innocent criticism of it by intimidation using information from the NSA on communications with whistle-blowers and news sources.
The NSA requires 100-10000 times stronger computing capacity than an encrypting target. However, because of the natural and inescapable economies of volume and price, which compress the price of computing power at the low end (the cost of improving computing power is cheaper at the low end) and expand it at the high end (where the law of diminishing returns kicks in so that a double of computing power requires a ten fold or more investment), the NSA would need to pay some 10000 times more in order to obtain 100 times more computing power, and on the order of 100 million times more to obtain 10000 times computing power. Thus a $1000 PC with $1000 of software would require the NSA to spend at least $10 mil for code breaking, and up to $100 billion, and more probably on the order of $1-10 billion. Furthermore, it would have to sort through a growing volume of electronic data which is growing at a double exponential rate with improvements in communications capacity price times improvements in computer power price. Thus the NSA would need to increase its eavesdropping capacity exponentially in volume (for screening capacity) and exponentially in price per unit volume, leaving it with an overall double exponential expenditure just in order to stay in place relative to entry level encryption and while quickly losing ground at the workstation level.
This is the reason IBM's big iron is losing relative volume to low end computing, why Cray went under, and why nearly all super-computing which had already become massively parallel is being replaced with networked workstations and now networked PCs, which are massively parallel by their nature, and the internet, which is well beyond massively parallel.
The NSA, with a future budget of $25 bil will not be able to screen coexistent volume the same year its new installations are complete, and will have to know exactly whom to listen to before they listen – meaning that they would need human intelligence on the ground in order to make electronic surveillance work at all, whereas till a couple of years ago they were able to screen all the voice traffic and much of the digital traffic. By the time the NSA has its new installation in place, it would not be useful for any purpose at all outside of intimidating innocents and pushing everyone into using more advanced encryption.
Thus the cost to America for a very temporary technological superiority is a prolonged, if not permanent, technological lag in the future. Thus the complaints of the Defense Department's Leitner in the URL above are simply irrelevant. In this one case, for a change, Clinton made the right decision in general policy, even if not in that particular case.
The age of large scale US technological supremacy in computing is going to be over within this decade.
Therefore, the last opportunity to deal with terrorism using government force is right now or never.
While Western government action will be effective in dealing with governments "harboring" terrorists, the only long term solution to the terrorist problem is by elimination of their broad support base. This can only be achieved with complete engagement of the people living under the "harboring" governments in the international community of private, unregulated, free trade and free expression, something that these governments (including Egypt, Saudi, Kuwaiti, Emirates, and Jordan not only Iran, Afghanistan, Syria and Iraq) do not allow their people. Which is the freedom that the terrorists do not allow their communities, and the freedom that clerics seek to eliminate from the societies they wish to control. These governments are dictatorships, and replacing them with another imposed totalitarian government, or even a democratic government that allows a majority to impose on a minority, must end with the rise of the same anti West terrorist ideologies and the expansion of their reach.
People in the Arabian lands must be free of their governments, of government imposed clerics, and the new governments installed must repress internal violence rather than cut deals with its practitioners, even if they are a majority. The political and ideological culture of the repressive regimes stems from the lack of exposure of the people to an alternative. The US, and Western allies (if any emerge) must consider this carefully when entering these countries and taking over governments. The loyalties of the new governments must be ideological and oriented towards principles of freedom, pluralism, and of private individual action and property - not political loyalty to the US or the West, they must allow peaceful internal expression of dissent, while punishing violent action by totalitarian ideologues mercilessly and swiftly, even at the risk of civil war.
RS
(9/14/01; 11:19:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61481)
Military Looking to Buy Jet Fuel, Traders Say
http://www.reuters.com/fullstory.jsp?type=topnews&StoryID=219999
NEW YORK (Reuters) - The U.S. military is looking to buy jet fuel in domestic and international markets following Tuesday's terror attacks on American soil, market sources said on Friday.
"They're definitely snooping around," said one New York-based oil broker.
There was talk the military was eying two tankers in the U.S. Gulf Coast to carry the jet fuel, according to the broker.
Market sources speculated the military was buying ahead of increased operations, like surveillance flights, and possible retaliation strikes.
----------------------------------------------
May cool heads prevail.
God bless America.
Mr Gresham
(9/14/01; 11:17:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61480)
Got it!
http://www.auburn.edu/~bertocr/Fortuna.html
Carmina Burana...
Have a good, and peaceful, day.
PH in LA
(9/14/01; 11:07:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61479)
Post Script: Punishment
This should have been included in my last post:
President Bush says "terrorists must be punished."
There is no adequate punishment for those who have done this.
Their crime is against all humanity. They have shown themselves to be beyond humanity, not part of it. They cannot be permitted to continue co-existing with humanity.
I keep thinking that those who would do something like this cannot have understood what they were contemplating... what would be the real and actual result of their action. No human being could be that evil.
But if it is not truly evil, failure to forsee the real consequences of actions IS stupid! There are limits to the stupidity that humanity can tolerate. This limit has been exceeded.
They must be eliminated from the ranks of humanity. This is not punishment. Leave the vengence to the Diety. Our responsibility now is survival.
It's that simple!
Mr Gresham
(9/14/01; 11:06:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61478)
Boethius
put it in his Consolation of Philosophy:
"First fickle Fortune gave me wealth short-lived,
Then in a moment all but ruined me....
Foolish the friends who called me happy
then Whose fall shows how my footing was unsure. (Bk I, ch. i)"
Seems people thought about it alot in those days. And they didn't even have a paper derivatives Bubble going...
Mr Gresham
(9/14/01; 11:03:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61477)
Sierra Madre
Still searching your source, but meanwhile, Robbie Burns humbly offers this to our erudite forumites:
Fickle Fortune
Fragment
1782
Type: Poem
Tune:
Though fickle Fortune has deceived me,
She promis'd fair and perform'd but ill;
Of mistress, friends, and wealth bereav'd me,
Yet I bear a heart shall support me still.
I'll act with prudence as far 's I'm able,
But if success I must never find,
Then come misfortune, I bid thee welcome,
I'll meet thee with an undaunted mind.
Mr Gresham
(9/14/01; 10:58:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61476)
Cash Settlements?
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=181114
JesseL posted an update from NYMEX:
"If the Exchange is successful in its efforts to hold an electronic trading session this afternoon, the October gold and silver options contracts will be settled against the October futures settlement prices.
"If there is no electronic trading session, then the settlement committee will determine appropriate cash market indicators to be used as the basis for settlement. "
FOA would probably say we'll be hearing more about cash settlements as paper markets separate from "underlying" (new meaning to that word, eh?) physical...
Sierra Madre
(9/14/01; 10:58:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61475)
Sir Gresham: perhaps you'll enjoy this.
On "Fickle Fortune" a lady that has shown her character this week, once again. Moral: get gold!
O Fortuna, O Fortune,
velut luna like the moon
statu variabilis, you are changeable,
semper crescis ever waxing
aut decrescis; and waning;
vita detestabilis hateful life
nunc obdurat first oppresses
et tunc curat and then soothes
ludo mentis aciem, as fancy takes it;
egestatem, poverty
potestatem and power
dissolvit ut glaciem. it melts them like ice.
Sors immanis Fate - monstrous
et inanis, and empty,
rota tu volubilis, you whirling wheel,
status malus, you are malevolent,
vana salus well-being is in vain
semper dissolubilis, and always fades to nothing,
obumbrata shadowed
et velata and veiled
michi quoque niteris; you plague me too;
nunc per ludum now through the game
dorsum nudum I bring my bare back
fero tui sceleris. to your villainy.
Sors salutis Fate is against me
et virtutis in health
michi nunc contraria, and virtue,
est affectus driven on
et defectus and weighted down,
semper in angaria. always enslaved.
Hac in hora So at this hour
sine mora without delay
corde pulsum tangite; pluck the vibrating strings;
quod per sortem since Fate
sternit fortem, strikes down the strong man,
mecum omnes plangite! everybody weep with me!
dragonfly
(9/14/01; 10:53:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61474)
Hipplebeck msg #61452
http://www.lewrockwell.com/peirce/peirce44.html
Very well said Sir Hipplebeck. I am in total agreement with you on that. The above link has options expressed that are not finding their way into the propaganda blitzkrieg. Nice to hear someone speak his own mind and cut through the crap.
Regards
dragonfly
PH in LA
(9/14/01; 10:50:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61473)
And So The Bullshit Starts: "Afghan Taliban Leader Insists Bin Laden Is Innocent"
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010914/ts/attack_binladen_dc.html
"Mullah Mohammad Omar said in a statement released in neighboring Pakistan that neither bin Laden nor Afghanistan had the capacity to train the suicide pilots who crashed hijacked aircraft into landmarks in New York and Washington, killing thousands of people."
Right! And the pilots who paid cash for flight simulator training in Florida before their gruesome mission didn't have that kind of money, either. Or did they? And where did it come from?
It doesn't really matter if we prove "beyond a reasonable doubt" that Bin Laden did or did not mastermind this attack. (Whether or not he is intelligent enough... has enough resorces... blah, blah, blah... etc., etc., etc.) We already know that he did plan and execute the bombing of American embassies in Africa. That is enough! This is not the OJ Simpson trial. It is not a criminal proceeding! We don't have to prove anything beyond a reasonable doubt. The 5,000 (or more) victims prove it.
An act of this magnitude is war.
In war, the first priority is survival.
These terrorists are not done. There is still worse that they can do. They could very well hijack their plane (or simply buy a corporate jet and load it with explosives) and crash into a West Coast nuclear power plant. The resulting nuclear plume would be carried across the whole country on prevailing winds. The death toll might easily be in the millions, not thousands.
Or perhaps suitcases of Antrax spores could be simultanously opened in cities across the nation. The result is unthinkable.
No, this is not criminality, nor can it be treated as such. It is war! A war chosen and implemented by terrorists. We should not even be asking the Taliban for Bin Laden and his followers. We should be planning their elimination right now. And the Taliban should be rounding them up and shipping them here already! Without our even asking for them. If the Taliban wants to play at opposing us, he too must be eliminated.
War is not something to be lightly contemplated. But defensive war is sometimes unavoidable. Civilazation itself has been attacked and shown itself at risk.
Civilization must not hesitate! It must defend itself.
The planet earth is no longer large enough for civilization to co-exist with Bin Laden, his followers and whoever gives them sanctuary. They must be pursued to the ends of the earth, rooted out and destroyed. If the Taliban doesn't understand that, he too must go!
Cynicsm is fine for those who like it. (See: Simply Me 9/14/01; 01:07:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61444) But when survival is at stake, its value falls dramatically. Simply Me can't trust anybody, anymore? Well, sometimes the truth is so big that it gets lost to those who try to examine the landscape too closely. Right now, it is obvious. The Good, and The Truth may not be perfect. But that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Civilization has a job to do.
We did not choose to declare a "War on Terrorism". That was done by the other side. We must not now be too cynical to defend ourselves!
Old Yeller
(9/14/01; 10:13:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61472)
More detail on Scotia Mocatta's gold
http://library.northernlight.com/HC20010913040000010.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=
The irony of this situation is almost surreal.
Buena Fe
(9/14/01; 09:46:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61471)
Oh Boy
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&refer=topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=AO6IQKBVKRG9sbGFy
09/14 10:11
Dollar Falls to Six-Month Low on Concern U.S. Recession Looms
By Geraldine Ryerson-Cruz
New York, Sept. 14 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar tumbled to six- month lows against the euro and yen on concern Tuesday's terrorist attacks on the U.S. will push its economy into recession.
The ``dollar overall is still in a state of crisis in the sense that we still have the potential for more terrorist attacks, and this is not over,'' said Andrew Busch, senior trader at Bank of Montreal in Chicago. ``The world is trying to get out of positions in the U.S. dollar.''
The U.S. currency fell as low as 92.47 cents per euro, its lowest level since March 13. It last traded at 92.14, down from 91.10 late yesterday. The dollar fell to 117.30 yen from 118.91 yesterday. The decline against the yen triggered automatic dollar sell orders, deepening a tumble that pushed it to as low as 116.92 yen, its weakest since Feb. 28.
As the U.S. makes terrorist Osama Bin Laden, who operates out of Afghanistan, the prime suspect in the attacks, Afghanistan's ruling Taliban said it would retaliate against any U.S. strikes in its country, according to Britain's Guardian newspaper. That could extend a looming military conflict.
``That means this would be a much more prolonged crisis,'' said Michael Malpede, senior currency analyst at Refco Inc. in Chicago. ``There's greater fear that would put the U.S. in recession and limit capital flows to the U.S.''
A bigger-than-expected drop in U.S. industrial production in August added to expectations the economy will sink into recession. Output fell 0.8 percent, the 11th month of contraction. That's the longest string of declines since 1960.
The U.S. economy, which expanded at the slowest pace in more than eight years in the second quarter, may contract this quarter, said Armin Mekelburg, a currency strategist at HypoVereinsbank in Munich.
Consumer confidence for September already dropped to its lowest level since 1993 before the attacks, according to a University of Michigan survey published yesterday. Another survey to be released at month's end will show confidence fell further after the attacks that destroyed New York City's World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon, the university said.
Investors ``will be reluctant to commit to U.S. assets,'' said Eddie Middleton, who helps oversee 5.5 billion pounds ($8 billion) at Britannic Investment Management in Glasgow. ``The dollar may drift lower.''
The U.S. currency's declines brought it down for the first week in four. It's down 1.3 percent against the 12-nation currency since last Friday and 2.1 percent against the yen.
In other trading today, the dollar also weakened against the Swiss franc to 1.6285 francs from 1.6478. It was little changed against the British pound to $1.4737 per pound from $1.4716, and against the Canadian dollar at C$1.5680 from C$1.5665.
site steward
(9/14/01; 09:36:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61470)
HEADLINE: Industrial Output Slumps for 11th Month
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010914/business_economy_output_dc_2.html
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. industrial output contracted again in August, dropping for an 11th straight month, the Federal Reserve said on Friday, in another sign the recession in the manufacturing sector is dragging on.-----
With output reported to have fallen by more than 0.8 percent in August, and utilization of company capacity falling to 76.2% (the lowest level since 1960), the following additional headline today becomes all the more troubling from an economic perspective...
HEADLINE: August Wholesale Prices Up 0.4 Percent
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010914/business_economy_prices_dc_2.html
site steward
(9/14/01; 09:15:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61469)
Herculean effort prepared to prop up stock market Monday
Prepare yourself for a performance of the stock market Monday that does not necessarily mesh with the economic reality of the times.
In an interview moments ago, New York Senator Charles Schumer was asked if he knew whether the stock exchanges would be ready for Monday.
My impression was that the reporter wanted assurances regarding any technical repairs for smooth operation for traders and other participants. However, this was the nature of Schumer's response as best as I can paraphrase it.
"The market will be ready to go on Monday. The Fed stands ready... And I have talked with companies; they have reserves and are looking at their stock."
R.
Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. / USAGOLD
(9/14/01; 08:58:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61468)
Hard assets... Easy access!
http://www.usagold.com/ProductsPage.html
In this global marketplace, an event on the far side of the world (even while you sleep or play) can adversely affect the performance-credibility of your commercial positions and financial portfolio.
Gold has no employees, no overhead, and no financial statement to balance. It cannot go bankrupt. Gold is wealth itself. It is valued worldwide on the basis of its reliable "form and function" -- a steadfast financial commodity immune to the contagious collapses to which all financial paper is prone.
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