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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/14/2000
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Black Blade (11/14/00; 23:39:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 41520)
More quotes?
Don't let it end like this. Tell them I said something. - the final words of Pancho Villa (1878-1923)

Vote early and vote often - Al capone

Always do right - this will gratify some and astonish the rest. - Mark Twain

elevator guy (11/14/00; 23:37:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 41519)
OOPs!
Thats supposed to be "FRN", not "FERN".

A world of difference!

elevator guy (11/14/00; 23:34:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 41518)
Thanks Galearis, YGM.
I'm really not as dejected as it may sound, by some of recent posts. I still
have faith in God, and I hope, that by posting the naked truth, Others may
be stirred to action, or at least realize that the gubmit is not in our
hands anymore.

When did this happen? Was there a revolution, and some dictator(s) just
moved in to Washington when we weren't looking? No, I think it happened
gradually, but most clearly when the Congress signed the Federal Reserve Act
into law, I think in 1914, or thereabouts. That was the end of the grand
experiment, when the same feudal lords/landowners/banksters from Europe, who
controlled most all the wealth, found a way to subjugate that renegade
colony back under their tyranny.

Its no wonder that during my public education, when we studied how the
various branches of government work, the Federal reserve was glossed right
over. Ever wonder how come school text books don't elaborate on the
structure, ownership, and dealings of the Federal Reserve? If the answer is
that they are not a branch of Government, then what are they doing issuing
Federal Reserve Notes? How come they get to print money out of thin air, and
lend it at interest? Only the Congress has the Constitutional right to do
that.

The Federal reserve has been painted right out of the picture. Donald Trump
wears his shiny rings under everybody's nose, and people think he is a
giant. Bill Gates is the richest man in the world, and everybody thinks he
is a king or something.

But there is no other power, that is so all-encompassing, that has so much
effect on the worlds economies, that controls the politics of foreign
nations, that has the keys to war, poverty, oppression, servitude,
prosperity, as the Federal Reserve has.

While I'm on it, don't hold your breath for the Euro to reign supreme as the
next default reserve currency. They can start a lot of wars, and use some
pretty mean tricks to keep the FERN on top.

When the Fed raises rates, a ripple goes through the economies of the world.
History is altered.

Compare this to when a new President gets in office. Same old same old.

Reminds me of a joke.

Complaining about the way things are to the President, is like complaining
to Ronald McDonald when you get a bad hamburger. Neither one of them run the
show.

Black Blade (11/14/00; 23:21:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 41517)
Quotes?
Die when I may, I want it said by those who knew me best, that I always plucked a thistle and planted a flower where I thought a flower would grow - Abraham Lincoln

He did die and another quote arose: Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play?

Peering over a parapet at the enemy, Union General John Sedgwick was killed in Virginia in 1864 during the battle of Spotsylvania Courthouse while seeking to rally his men. His final words were, "They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist -."

YGM (11/14/00; 22:55:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 41516)
Just caught this .....
DESPERATION IN FULL SWING...
Gore Campaign Recruiting Lawyers
The Associated Press
Tuesday, Nov. 14, 2000; 10:48 p.m. EST

TALLAHASSEE �� Al Gore's supporters, seeking to recruit lawyers to help with its vote recount efforts in south Florida, asked a national group that works closely with trial lawyers around the country to help.

The president of the group said Tuesday night the group doesn't plan to act on the request.

The request was passed along on the Internet E-mail list of the National Association of Trial Lawyer Executives (NATLE) by the executive director of the group, Kathleen Wilson, suggesting they pass along the request to lawyers on the Internet E-mail lists they're on.

The E-mail said the Gore campaign was requesting volunteers for the recount in Volusia, Miami-Dade and Broward Counties. The E-mail said "they are comfortable that Palm Beach County is under control."

"They anticipate that they will need at least 500 lawyer-volunteers, primarily in (Miami-Dade) and Broward counties," the note said, adding they were requesting only lawyer volunteers.

Gore campaign spokesman Doug Hattaway said he didn't know details about the e-mail for lawyers, but acknowledged an active effort to recruit lawyers to help with the recount.

"We have a number of attorneys volunteering to observe the county process and interview voters who have complaints," he said.

Penny Gold, president of the organization, which includes many executive directors and other officials with lawyer groups, said the E-mail was "just an informational thing that got passed along."

"We haven't done anything with it," she said, adding that she knew of no plans to act on it.

� Copyright 2000 The Associated Press

YGM (11/14/00; 22:45:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 41515)
Had to Throw In One More...
Quote...
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.
-- Calvin Coolidge

Black Blade (11/14/00; 22:44:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 41514)
RE: Peter Asher
Peter, you wrote:

What would the procedure be if the Vice President elect were incapicitated beyond recovery by illness or accident??

Black Blade: Then Black Blade buys a round for everyone!

Black Blade (11/14/00; 22:42:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 41513)
Hydro-Carbon Man cometh!
NG blasted over $6.00 Mbtu on the way to at least $8.00. NY Crude is now over $35.00/bbl. But not to worry, as this is better oil, so it is subject to "Hedonic" valuation when calculated into the PPI and CPI. Of course, it is completely ignored in regard to the Core Rate.

Natural Gas 6.155 +0.139 +2.31 %
Heating Oil 1.065 +0.0109 +1.03 %
Crude Oil 35.13 +0.26 +0.75 %
Unleaded Gasoline 0.8965 +0.0042 +0.47 %

US' Richardson: Still believes there is an oil supply problem New York--Nov. 14--1621 ET--U.S. Energy Secretary Bill Richardson said Tuesday that he still believes there is inadequate supply of crude oil in world markets and that prices remain too high. However, in an interview on CNBC, he said the U.S. had not expected OPEC to raise output at its meeting Monday and cautioned against interfering in the market.

Black Blade: Billy is an idiot. It isn't a supply problem as it is a refinery capacity problem, and no refinery wants to hold expensive oil in inventory.

API Review: NYMEX flat-higher as distillate stockpiles drop New York--Nov. 14--NYMEX energy futures rose slightly in overnight Access trade as American Petroleum Institute data showed a larger-than-expected gain of 2.515 million barrels in U.S. crude stocks last week, but also a surprising drop of 55,000 barrels in distillates, which include heating oil and diesel fuel. The drop overshadowed an unexpected gain of 3.419 million barrels in gasoline.

Saudi oil minister: Will act unilaterally if necessary New York--Nov 14--1446 ET--Saudi Arabia Oil Minister Ali Naimi said the kingdom will take unilateral action to supply world markets if necessary, reiterating that OPEC's biggest producer has no intention of creating a crude shortage. If crude prices remain above $30 per barrel in January, when OPEC next meets, the group's choices may be limited due to capacity constraints, Kuwait Oil Minister Sheikh Saud Nasser al-Sabbah said.

NYMEX Oil Review: Cold, natgas boost heating oil more than 3% New York--Nov. 14--1652 ET--Heating oil futures in New York gained more than 3% Tuesday as cold weather moving east across the U.S. boosted oil and natural gas markets. Dec heating oil settled up 378 points, or 3.7%, at $1.0541 per gallon. Dec crude settled up 40 cents at $34.87 per barrel.

Kuwait's al-Sabah sees no output move before next OPEC meeting London--Nov. 14--0532 ET--Kuwaiti Oil Minister Sheikh Saud Nasir al-Saud al-Sabah said Tuesday he sees no OPEC output move before the group's next meeting in January. Speaking at a conference in London, he said that OPEC had done all it could to restore oil price stability by increasing output four times this year and that it was now up to market forces to dictate oil prices. He added that consuming nations have a moral obligation to reduce taxation on fuel to help achieve such stability.

Saudi oil minister wants long-term price at $22-28 per barrel London--Nov. 14--0606 ET--Saudi Arabian Oil Minister Ali Naimi said Tuesday that he would like to see oil prices at $22-28 per barrel in the long term. In a television interview with CNBC, Naimi also said that Saudi Arabia would take action to bring oil prices down if necessary.

Black Blade: Old song and dance. Four production raises and no more production capacity � Game Over!

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 22:35:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 41512)
Ross, John Doe

What would the procedure be if the Vice President elect were incapicitated beyond recovery by illness or accident??

Black Blade (11/14/00; 22:27:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 41511)
New Twist in the Coronation Sweepstakes!
Now Dade County has made the discision not to hand count votes along with Broward County. Volusia County finished their hand count earlier today with a net gain of 4 votes for Gore. Now it is up to West Palm Beach to drag this out. Absentee ballots must be counted by friday midnight.

Also, 174 students at Marquette University in Wisconsin have admitted to vote fraud by voting more than once, and some several times during the election. There was no check of ID's prior to voting.

Meanwhile, we the lucky serfs get to await the coronation of either Dumb or Dumber as our next ruler.

YGM (11/14/00; 22:23:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 41510)
Would you believe 210
:-))
zzzzzzzzz

YGM (11/14/00; 22:22:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 41509)
Words of Wisdom from 110 yrs AGO!
Nite All...
It is the common fate of the indolent to see their rights become a prey to the active. The condition upon which God hath given liberty to man is eternal vigilance; which condition if he break, servitude is at once the consequence of his crime and the punishment of his guilt.
-- John Philpot Curran: Speech upon the Right of Election (1790)

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 22:15:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 41508)
Say What?
If you don't see the idiocy here, let me know and I'll explain it------!

Christine Sinicki, a Democrat who represents a
Milwaukee district in the legislature and is one of
the state's 270 electors who will meet Dec. 18,
criticized the Republicans for trying to rush the
election process. She said she was not committed
to the abolition of the Electoral College but
believes a fairer system would be to allow the
states' electors to represent the split of the
popular vote rather than giving all the votes to the
winner. Unofficial totals gave Gore 47.9 percent of
the vote to 47.7 percent for Bush.

RossL (11/14/00; 22:09:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 41507)
12th amendment
All the Republican electors could decide to vote in another candidate. Or, if they did vote for Cheney and that vote was disqualified under the 12th amendment, the choice for VP could go to Congress as required in the 20th amendment.

John Doe (11/14/00; 22:04:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 41506)
@RossL
As I read it, if Bush wins Florida, but Cheney's Wyoming "inhabitation" status is denied, the Texas Republican Electors will be able to vote for Bush OR Cheney, but not both, defaulting the majority vote for VP to Lieberman. But can the Republican Electors vote for VP anyone that wasn't a VP candidate in the general election? Maybe a third party VP? Will watch with interest as to whether TPTB bury this (too much already in the mix, too hot to handle)...

RossL (11/14/00; 21:52:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 41505)
John Doe - 12th amendment
My reading of the 12th amendment gives me the impression that the electors could still vote for Bush if the lawsuit is sustained. The electors may have to vote for someone else other than Cheney or any other Texan for VP.

ET (11/14/00; 21:32:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 41504)
JavaMan

Hey JavaMan - glad to see someone besides Journeyman reads this stuff I link. As has become apparent, several of us have given up on government as a solution to much of anything. As Journeyman points out, the term anarchist has been distorted into some kind of bomb-throwing zealot. Actually, anyone that feels the slightest notion that government might not be the best thing that ever came down the pike is regularly referred to as one kind of a nut or other. Hey, I'm used to it. My brother-in-law was here last week and questioned my sanity when I claimed the government may not be able to provide the retirement and health benefits going forward that he is counting on. I guess he feels he isn't responsible for this stuff any longer.

In the end, as Journeyman also pointed out, we are responsible for ourselves and have been during times of little or much government. I don't suspect that even if the federal government where to totally disappear tomorrow we would be looted by foreigners, would suddenly start dying off from disease, or our children wouldn't get an education. No, I suspect we would be flooded with people wanting an opportunity to get ahead in life, freed from the shackles of high taxation and intimidation.

Journeyman and ORO are also right when they claim that man's nature is to get ahead. We wouldn't be here today if early on most had adopted a "kill the first guy we see and take his stuff" stance. No, man's nature is cooperation with each other. It's also known as the division of labor. All benefit from cooperation. Some here have claimed that this is unrealistic or idealistic. I would point out that for most of man's history this has been the case where the last century or so has been the exception.

The one thing from the essay you referenced that stood out to me was the author's claim to have gotten the point when he studied economics and learned of the theory of marginal utility. This is the basis of society. We all trade for our own benefit and only trade when it is beneficial to both parties. Maybe you can see why government cannot exist to any great extent in this equation except by the use of force.

Mainly, I just hope it makes you think. This 'election' hopefully has made many think. Thanks for your interest.

YGM (11/14/00; 21:26:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 41503)
New Australian Index..
http://www.newaus.com.au/index.html
Talk about Democrats, you can find it here...YGM

YGM (11/14/00; 21:20:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 41502)
Klintoon & Suited Barbarians....
Complete Article......Maybe more will read it posted...
The New Australian

Clinton's suited barbarians

By James Henry

In my last column *Clinton and Machiavelli's Prince (No. 106, 8-14 February) I thought I had made it clear that Clinton was not in himself the real menace to the Republic and why there is no danger of him becoming our first dictator. He is certainly ruthless and ambitious enough for the role, but lacks the necessary qualities and, above all, the right social and political environment. I pointed out that it is not the Constitution that defends our lives and liberty but our faith in the Constitution. This is something the Founding Fathers fully understood and that is why they built checks and balances into our system of government. They were astute observers of of human nature as well as keen students of history. They knew how people can be deceived or moved by the passions of the moment. But more than anything else, they understood how seductive power can be and the attraction it holds for the worst of men and women.

There are only two ways in which a people lose their liberty: from within or from without. The threat to American liberty will not spring from militant Chinese nationalism or a resurgent Russia � it will come from a gradual loss of faith in liberty as Americans succumb to the blandishments of the state and sink into moral degradation. The latter does not mean Roman-like orgies or taking delight in gladiatorial contests. It does mean abandoning basic moral values and severing one's ties from tradition.

This process can only leave a society morally adrift, subject to philosophical absurdities such as relativism, which invariably degenerates into nihilism. When this begins to happen people at first lose their moral courage; fearing ridicule and being portrayed as ignorant they allow the sophistries and outright lies of the emerging orthodoxy to go unchecked; eventually, their own lack of moral courage is transformed into a lack of moral conviction and they lose their capacity to make moral judgements. This opens the door to despotic government.

We have not reached the final stage of moral collapse. Most people still see Clinton for the creature he really is. Yet a great many people were either unable or feared to make the final moral judgement. Is this because they accepted the dominant intellectual belief that moral judgements are expressions of intolerance (except when made by left-wing intellectuals) or is it because they are now incapable of making moral judgements? Or is it because they fear ridicule? I just do not know. But I do know that when moral values collapse barbarism moves in.

Totalitarian ideologies have been the curse of the twentieth century. The havoc they wreaked and their death toll vastly exceeds anything caused by all of history's other barbarians. The Nazis were this century's barbarians par excellence, not because of the numbers they murdered (communist states murdered vastly more people) but because they epitomised modern barbarism. Men who could casually murder men, women and children and then go home and cuddle their children, listen to Bach, play Mozart, read Goethe or discuss nineteenth century art. Barbarians in neatly tailored uniforms and highly polished boots. Barbarians wearing glasses, smoking pipes and with leather patches on the elbows of their jackets lecturing students on National Socialism and Aryan superiority. Barbarians in silk shirts and ties and oozing smarmy charm, exhibiting impeccable manners and convincing English aristocrats and naive politicians that their intentions were honorable and their ambitions limited � and all the while their thugs swaggered through the nation's streets.

What made this possible was, in a nutshell, Germany's moral collapse. A country noted for its high culture, universities and high level of education was turned virtually overnight into a nation of suited barbarians. Nothing so dramatic or murderous is going to happen in America. No, it will strike us like a cancer that if left unchecked becomes terminal. Are we seeing the signs? Perhaps. The first target of any totalitarian movement is the media, including film studios. Unlike the Nazis or communists, America's totalitarian Left has not had to capture government to control the means of communications, it has virtually done that already. It also controls nearly all of the country's humanities departments. From these it has poured out thousands of left-wing graduates who go into law, journalism, teaching, entertainment � even advertising.

The mainstream media's uniform defence of Clinton and the savagery of its ideological assault on his critics and victims clearly demonstrates who is really in control. These journalists are just some of Clinton's suited barbarians. For them there is no truth, only a cause and a pathological hatred of conservatism. True, the barbarians' control of the media is not complete, but it doesn't have to be. It only needs to be effective. There is no doubt that our leftist dominated media has had a pernicious effect on public opinion. I recall how William Shirer described that while living in Nazi Germany even he had been misled by "a steady diet over the years of falsifications and distortions" (The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich) despite his ready access to foreign sources of information, especially British and American.

Then, of course, we have the Hollywood network. Its support for left-wing causes is as legendary as its scorn for conservative values. Not content with publicly cheering Clinton on, it has joined his smear squad with NBC productions Law & Order and Homicide being used to libel Ken Starr and belittle the accusations against Clinton. Do these actors, producers and directors have any shame or any common decency? Of course not. This piece of lying pro-Clinton propaganda is all in the cause. (But it sometimes makes me wonder who will be the Hollywood Leni Riefenstahl). So is Hollywood dominated by suited barbarians? I think so. Just recall Alec Baldwin's antics.

This now leaves us with the universities. The extent of open support for Clinton in academia, mainly the humanities, has shaken quite a few people. It shouldn't have. Twentieth century academics in general have not really been noted for their devotion to democracy. German universities were so ideologically corrupt by 1933 that the great majority of those holding university chairs had already joined the Nazi Party along with thousands of other academics. The recent outbreak of academic support for Clinton suggests that the mentality many of our academics is not much better than that of those German academics of the '20s and '30s. Once again demonstrating besuited barbarism was not just a German phenomenon, especially when one considers how many American academics supported Marxist regimes that murdered scores of millions of their own citizens.

The one thing people must learn is that they are not facing a political party or a conspiracy. What they are facing is the deadliest of all political movements. The type that spontaneously emerges overtime, gradually spreading, like a plague, through civic society and the body politic. What members of this movement share is a common ideology and that is why they seem to act as if they are being directed. People who share the same ideas tend to react the same way. Therefore the movement has no head and no plan, just a self-organising network. This is much easier to understand if you think of the ideology as a plague and the ideologues as carriers. Hillary Clinton is one such carrier while Bill is basically a political parasite.

If this political plague is not stopped, and it can be stopped, it will eventually kill off American democracy. The first step in defeating this movement is to understand what it is. Fortunately, its nature is well understood in many quarters. The really good news is, it cannot withstand the antidote � and that is honest and open debate. Without a doubt, the Net will play a vital role in defeating this totalitarian disease, as Matt Drudge has already shown. I firmly believe that the good news will get even better.

*Clinton and Machiavelli's Prince

The New Australian

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 21:01:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 41501)
Journeyman, JavaMan All

What we have NOW, is anarchy. As I defined Democracy in early Forum days, "A Collective Anarchy. The election fuss is a perfect example. Rule of law being called into question by individuals who want things differently. In this age of instant communication and think alike populations who get their identities while fastened to the TV couch, these law resistors act in concert: Collectivly!

Journeyman (11/14/00; 20:34:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 41500)
"Anarchy" @JavaMan
http://www.webleyweb.com/tle/le960907.html

Java Man, governments don't make societies work, in fact just the opposite. That's why "the government that governs least governs best" is an accurate aphorism.

Think of the US government as it was at first, as it was largely until the Federal Reserve Act and the so-called income tax. It was vastly smaller, hardly existed and rarely made the front page.

Our ancestors fared quite well. They didn't do too badly BEFORE under the Articles of Confederation either, which were much weaker, actually. From here as things are today, the way things were in those days is miles toward so-called "anarchy." Doesn't sound too bad to me at all.

Another point: "Anarchy" is another term that has been spun because it weakens the elite powers excuse to control us because we're basically either "evil" or perhaps just "irresponsible." See link above for some clarification of this distortion of the word "anarchy."

Finally, as Rockwell's essayist points out, governments in the Twentyith Century alone have killed, according to Amnesty International, approximately 200 million men, women and children, only about 20% in warfare. They out and out butchered the rest. Could anarchy be worse? How?

At any rate, you can follow the link below to R.J. Rummel's research as to how many people have been killed by governments. Rummel is a very careful researcher and his figures jibe with Amnesty International's. See them at http://www2.hawaii.edu/~rummel/20TH.HTM

Regards,
Journeyman

John Doe (11/14/00; 20:20:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 41499)
Well, that's that -- wait till the TV media picks up on this:
http://www.gopbi.com/partners/pbpost/epaper/editions/tuesday/news_16.html

Suit questions Bush-Cheney claim to TX votes

By Mary McLachlin, Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, November 14, 2000

WEST PALM BEACH -- A federal lawsuit filed here Monday says George W. Bush and Dick Cheney can't legally claim Texas' 32 electoral votes because both are inhabitants of the state -- a violation of the 12th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

The amendment prohibits a state's electors from voting for both a president and vice president from their state. Cheney has lived and worked in Texas for eight years but switched his voter registration to Wyoming in July to try to avoid the constitutional conflict.

That's not good enough, says the suit filed by Lawrence A. Caplan, 42, a Boca Raton lawyer. Merely moving one's voter registration doesn't meet the legal definition of being an "inhabitant," Caplan argues.

The suit says Cheney's primary residence is in Texas, his pre-nomination employment with Dallas-based Halliburton Corp. was in Texas, he voted in Texas in every election cycle for eight years until last week's election, he carries a Texas driver's license and all his federal tax returns list him as a Texan.

A spokesman for the Bush campaign in Austin said Cheney still owns property in Wyoming.

"Dick Cheney grew up in Wyoming, he represented Wyoming in the U.S. House of Representatives and he was a legally registered voter in Wyoming in this election," GOP spokesman Ray Sullivan said.

Caplan's suit says Black's Law Dictionary defines inhabitant as "one who resides actually and permanently in a given place and has his domicile there." It cites case law saying "residence" is not the same as inhabitant, which implies "a more fixed and permanent abode . . . imparting privileges and duties to which a mere resident would not be subject."

"He hasn't met the test. Not even close," Caplan said. "It was just a cynical attempt on their part to get around the Constitution, and they never thought in a million years anyone would have called them on it."

Caplan said he decided to file the challenge because he felt the Bush campaign's attempts to stop the recount were wrong. He said he isn't aligned with either party or any protest group.

"My voter registration card says Democrat, but I voted for Ronald Reagan and I listen to Rush Limbaugh," he said. "I don't always agree with him, but I enjoy the show."

John Doe: Could we end up with Bush as Pres and Lieberman as VP, or would that not reflect "the will of the people"? :o)

Tree of Life (11/14/00; 20:09:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 41498)
To Topez - Re: Derivatives
First I have to declare I am not a gold analyst and my personal gold portfolio (physical only and not a large one ) was built up progressively from early 1998. I took up an interest in following USAGOLD discussions because of the quality of the contributors.

Now, my view on the derivatives on gold is :
(1) At the current pricing levels of gold, more gold loans certainly offers no help to miners to develop new gold mines.
(2) The gold carry trade as an important source of financing to inflate the US$ but has run its course since the Washington Agreement.
(3) When Central Banks no longer stand ready to lease an increasing amount of gold should the POG rises, the shorts days are doomed. At this precarious position, POG must not be allowed to increase or the shorts will face a squeeze that will put them and their backers out of business.
(4) How will the powerful shorts cover their positions within the next crucial 5 years if 85% of the known reserves are not touchable � this include parties to the Washington Agreement, US, IMF, Japan, Australia and by extension South Africa. The shorts can only get their supply through the private reserves and that means you and me by encouraging us to dishoard.
(5) This they do by bringing the marker price down on the NYMEX, remember it was only a dump of 4,000 lots in New York that brought the POG down from over $270 to $265 in just two days. I believe POG is intended to stay at this level over a long period of time to warn off all remaining patience of the physical holders. I also believes that some friendly CB are helping friends out by selling out physical at the low marker prices, in particular the Brits and the Swiss. Remember repayment of gold loans by mining companies would only go to payment for legitimate mine financing and all the naked shorts have no source of repayment.
(6) For some reasons i do not understand, Chase & JP Morgan are to merge. Both are key shareholders of the Federal Reserve and they have the largest exposure to the derivatives market bar none at roughly 60% of the market volume in the US commercial banking system. My estimate is that up to 15% to 18% of the contracts needs to be unwound due to the singularity of the counter party risks.

Now I am not saying on the day Chase and JPM merge the contracts will be immediately liquidated but at least every time when a contract expires, it may not get rolled over. Indeed it will be very interesting for the shorts when that time comes.

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 20:02:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 41497)
The Final Solution

The only viable leadership capable of pulling America out of this mess has put together it's slate for the House of Representatives to install when they meet to break the deadlock.

My proposed Ticket was approved by the electoral committee of Gandalf and auspec and is hereby proclaimed.

President: ORO

Vice President: Javaman (He'll re-invent the Internet)

Chief of Staff: auspec (We need to lighten up)

Treasury: Aristotle

Secretary of State: FOA

Education: Buttercup (That's Robin) she hasn't posted much since Y2K)

Health and Welfare: Journeyman

Commerce: Stranger

Interior: Caven Man

Energy: Black Blade

Federal Reserve: MK

White House redesign and renovation: Asher

(I actually got a web-site inquiry several months ago, from the M.E, requesting pricing on a design based on the White House.)

SteveH (11/14/00; 19:06:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 41496)
comment
In other words, every recount will sing to each side back and forth because they vote is within a margin of error that really is a dead heat between the two. How many counts are valid until it goes Gore's way? The more you count under these circumstances the more the chance of Gore getting it for a time. Count again and Bush gets it. It becomes an issue of what is reasonable. Three counts is not reasonable.

SteveH (11/14/00; 19:03:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 41495)
comment
The statement by the SECSTATE of FL this evening leads me to believe that she is providing a fair hearing by way of a letter by 2:00pm tomorrow those counties who stated they were interested in a manual recount. This provides due process hearing and is a seemingly proper action. I believe the SECSTATE will deny any request for a re-recount because she would have to have the whole state recount but the nation and the state of FL and the law of FL demand that the recounts stop and the ballots be certified. Every recount would in one fashion swagger back and forth to each candidate. For every recount, there will be varying results. Two machine counts and one-county hand count shall stand as a certified count minus the oversea ballots.

Her problems will come when or if the Gore camp decides to go after the due process argument of a biased quasi-judicial tribunal. I believe that Adminstrative law will show that her discretion is non-arbitrary as long as she refuses all re-recounts for the sake of the nation and FL. No one can make her decision that is not in some way biased. I believe Gore will at some point have to acquiece. The longer he pushes the spin, the less credibility he will have.

2:00pm tomorrow is when we find out. All of this is in my completely layman and non-lawyerly opinion, of course.

JavaMan (11/14/00; 19:02:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 41494)
Journeyman, ET RE Lou Rockwell
Seems to be a good thinker, but I question his prognosis.

"Those of us who love liberty should rethink any temptations we might have to rush to the deathbed of statism and attempt to revivify its corpse by giving it a transfusion of our energies."

JavaMan: Sounds somewhat "Atlas Shrugged"ish. But more to the point.

"The society upon which statism has fed will doubtless undergo a few headaches, fevers, and upset stomachs in the interim. But like a case of the flu, it may be better to let the sickness run its course rather than continue our habit of suppressing the symptoms."

JavaMan: Mr. Rockwell is on the road to anarchy and, should that come to fulfillment, his "case of the flu" could easily escalate into fatal pneumonia.

CoBra(too) (11/14/00; 18:44:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 41493)
@ Auspec - Hi friend of RR without the power of the "T" ...
See - just wee tiny working bee - bringing "thee" info on what should be! Gee, I'm a happy camper in the lee of "T".

May just be - old Gnr'l Lee will oversee the votes of Talahassee - d'you see? Fr(ortl)auderda-Lee - 2cb

Journeyman (11/14/00; 18:00:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 41492)
I hate democrats - - - and republicans! @ALL

Hi ALL!

I'm sorry to have to say this, but I hate democrats. And republicans.

I made the mistake of watching Hannity and Combs. The democrat said, essentially, "If republicans do it, it's partisan but if democrats do it, it's not." I hate democrats.

But in a repeat of the impeachment battle, the republicans are too stupid to call the democrats on that strategy!! I hate republicans!!

Regards,
Journeyman

auspec (11/14/00; 17:58:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 41491)
Renege @ The Tower/ CLHE-HoF/ WARRRRRRR!!!!!
Renege Randy @ the Toilet,
I have been alerted as to your simple snare and dastardly deed, and remain undefiled by your fraudulent scheme. CLHE-HoFAG is now formally reactivated as a result of your betrayal, thanks to the advance warnings of our sentries and our escape from harm's way.
We will make a couple of brief points to help your failing memory:
1- "As it is, we do have a section within the Hall of Fame called "The Lighter Side" that could very easily be morphed into whatever is deemed appropriate." Do you, by any chance,RR@ the T, know who's words those are????? Does the word "is" in that sentence from YOU give you wiggle room??We will not have this type of insolence from the hired help. May we remind you that OUR purchases from CPM pays your room and board in the Inn? The insurrectionists are always right!

2-For all who care to see the trap that was missprung on our beloved endeavor you may visit http:www.usagold.com/hall/CLHE/clheresponse.html. This is the very site that RR prematurely and selffully proclaims himself to be the "best". This rascal is as delusional as Al G {algae}, and possibly as power hungry.

3-To help RR out after our weeks of "negotiating", it would be nice if he knew WHO we are {maybe it's not so surprising he doesn't}. It's C {Cerebral, that means brain Randy}, L {Left, the hand you don't throw a rock with RR}, H {Hemisphere, half of the normal brain}, E {Enhanced, that means working at full speed}. CLHE!!! Now we were kind enough to drop the A {Advocacy, that means to try to obtain a goal} and the G {Group, we-uns}, until recently re-challenged. So it is again CLHE-HoFAG, so be it!!!

We may be simple blokes, but we are united blokes and we will rejoin the battle and not sleep until we have the "V". Our careers, families, avocations, and miscellaneous affairs are now on hold to fully concentrate on the CLHE-HoFAG objective. Be fully warned. There are less than 20 of us now, but we could soon have another membership drive! Please respond in print at this Forum to The Wizard and me, and our faithful. A left brained duel it shall be. What say ye fellow utilizers of this key and important part of the brain??
auspecfully yours,
auspec

All in fun of course, right?

USAGOLD (11/14/00; 17:09:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 41490)
Ultimate gridlock
http://www.prudentbear.com/international_print.htm
This from the Prudent Bear alludes to what I've been writing about in my Commentary & Review since last Wednesday and the post I made on Sunday about what George Bush might do should he win the White House. I referred to the potential upcoming political atmosphere "ultimate gridlock." Political analyst Kevin Phillips refers to it as "malignant gridlock."

-------------------

"We do not wish to engage in a debate about the virtues or deficiencies of America's unique Electoral College system.� It
may in rare instances preclude the selection of the candidate who wins the most popular votes in the country, but (in the
words of journalist Andrew Sullivan) it is also "designed to avoid, raw unfettered majoritarianism, and balance national
interests against state ones".� We are, however, much more concerned about the resultant political gridlock which could
arise from such a situation and the policy implications that flow from it.� The political analyst Kevin Phillips has pointed
out that there are two kinds of government gridlock, one which the markets tend to like � benign gridlock � in which either
of the two parties are prevented from implementing their most extreme fiscal measures (big tax cuts from the Republicans
or lots of public spending from the Democrats), and a polarising, malignant gridlock, in which the parties are so at odds
that the government cannot produce any coherent, responsible, long-term policy measures.� This is particularly problematic
in an environment where so many of the nation's political representatives are thought to be beholden to competing electoral
lobbies under a system largely driven by money politics (therefore precluding actions in "the broader national interests"
when they adversely affect the interests of major contributors). The latter type of gridlock is particularly malignant in an
environment of severe recession as it often exacerbates prevailing adverse trends and prevents proactive measures to
counteract their worst effects."�

Journeyman (11/14/00; 17:09:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 41489)
A discussion well joined! Part 2 @Galearis 11/14/00 msg#: 41456, ORO

Hi again Galearis!

Now as to what I perceived to be your first main point,
particularly that "Libertarians consider that people are
basically 'responsible'."

There are undoubtedly Libertarians (and even a few of us
libertarians) who think people in general are universally
"responsible," at least after childhood. I don't know any, but
there must be a few somewhere. But most of the arguments that
apply to "evil" apply to "irresponsible" as well. For example,
we can say to paraphrase appropriately, "If people are basically
responsible, then we don't need much government and if they're
'irresponsible' we don't want them running our lives, especially
at the point of a gun."

In fact the libertarians (and even most of the Libertarians) that
I know are pretty astute judges of human nature. We _know_
people are irresponsible. Heck, _I,m_ sometimes irresponsible.
I spend way too much time on these posts :<.

But there's a natural limit to irresponsibility in a free
society. In a condition of liberty, that limit's directly
imposed by your wallet, and ultimately, by your free time, though
this can be supplemented to the extent those in your group are
willing to voluntarily subsidize you with _their_ wallet and
time. Or _forced_ to.

And what is "irresponsible?" And who gets to decide? This is a
very dangerous question. Was Columbus irresponsible -- everyone
knew the earth was flat? How many years did it take Edison to
discover just the right tungsten alloy to make the lightbulb
viable? If he hadn't found the alloy, would that have been an
"irresponsible" use of time on his part? How about the hours we
all spend posting here?

The point is, libertarians, while we know people are sometimes
"irresponsible," don't worry about it much. In a free society,
things work out. The people around the apparently irresponsible,
that is, those in their immediate small group, will not only
discourage what appears to them to be irresponsibility, but also
take care of most of the results of what, in retrospect, turns
out to have actually been "irresponsibility."

Charities such as churches, Salvation Army, etc. can take care of
the overflow of the truly needy from these small groups when they
are kept to the minimum a free market economy (which we don't
have) would keep them. And we don't have to try to guess if, _as
a group_, we're stifling the next Edison -- there's plenty of
venture capital around.

To sum up: In free societies, the results of "irresponsibility"
are dealt with by financial success, as in the case of Edison,
etc. or by voluntary charity in the few cases local small groups
can't handle the other side of things -- all those people who
_didn't_ find the right tungsten alloy, or, despite significant
social pressure from their families and friends, were just, well,
blindly irresponsible. Libertarians don't worry because the
limit to irresponsibility is imposed by reality and your own
resources, sometimes suplemented by the resources of your
immediate group, and general charities, failing that.

But what happens when there _isn't_ that limit on
irresponsibility of your _own_ bankroll plus any extra you can
scrounge or promote VOLUNTARILY from your family, friends, or
even strangers? Hint: There's _nothing_ to limit the
irresponsibility.

Questions: How/where can such a thing happen, that is, where is
irresponsibility rampant because it isn't limited by _voluntary_
contributios? What are the results? Can you give an example?

In short, libertarians are quite aware that people are sometimes
irresponsible, but know voluntarism and market forces are quite
adaquate -- and the best ways -- to deal with the results of such
irresponsibility, and to limit it in the first place.

Regards,
Journeyman

CoBra(too) (11/14/00; 16:53:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 41488)
Kafka'esque ? ... or reality meeting virtuality?
Randy@ the Tower - Whatever has given you that idea?

After all, good old Franz Kafka was the forerunner of virtual worlds and in his main works "The Process {Trial)" or "The Judgement" he describes exactly what is going on today - here and now - so maybe Franz Kafka invented the internet long before? - we'll probably never know for sure - just another parallel?.

On the other hand FK didn't run for president - not even in his world - though he ended up in an asylum in Vienna (looney bin?) -where he retired from the K'wave he triggered in the US of the 40's - long after he has "virtually" passed away, he still influences this day.

... In a way - I'd say and the rest I spare you - cb2

wolavka (11/14/00; 16:25:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 41487)
sticking my neck out again
My patience is now at an end, some guy said that in 1938.

I will start buying right now right here again at 265+ in dec. now you know, let the chips fall .

Journeyman (11/14/00; 15:34:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 41486)
A discussion well joined! Part 1 @Galearis 11/14/00 msg#: 41456

Hi Galearis!

This sort of interchange always stretches my thinking. Thanks!

This started out to be a short response, but just like Topsy in
"Uncle Tom's Cabin," just grew. It is now three, count 'em, THREE
sections. I'll post them separately. The first is this "intro"
and the other two, to be posted when finished, are responses to
what I believe were your two main points.

If I may take the liberty of distilling what I think to be your
main points, it seems to me you make two main ones.

1. People are irresponsible (and "Libertarians" tend to miss this
fact.)

2. Libertarians don't have environmental "solutions."

I'd like to address both points (in later posts), but first,
though, I'd like to make an observation. Libertarians, as ORO
touched in passing, are just the heritors of the "classical
liberal" philosophy of the 17th and 18th century. They can't use
"liberal" as their moniker because what it represents has morphed
into, well, what "liberal" means today.

It's very interesting that you wrote in your post, "This does not
make me, however, a socialist. But it does make me a liberal who
stands in the middle looking both ways with more than a little
amusement at the scenery." Me too!

Keeping in mind the "classical liberal" ancestry we came from,
libertarians should be exactly there --- in the middle and being
a little amused. But most libertarians, mostly because of
developmental (in the sense you bring your friends)
considerations, come from a "conservative" background and so tend
to have a conservative "flavor." And it takes most of us quite
awhile to shed this - - - if we ever do. For this reason, many
modern "liberals" tend to mistake the average libertarian for an
"enemy." We're not, especially not to those modern liberals with
most of their "classical liberal" intellectual pedigree still in
tact. YOU may be largely libertarian, Galearis!

However, most "modern" liberals (from my perspective at least)
have retained the freedom part of the classical liberal
philosophy while dropping the "responsibility" part --- and
usually in a very specific way: It seems to me, modern liberals
want someone _else_ to pay for and otherwise take responsibility
for _others_' freedom -- and also, though not often understood in
exactly this way, to pay for ameliorating those "others'" other
mistakes as well.

At their best, modern liberals are altruistic in the sense that
they want freedom for disadvantaged others (freedom from want,
etc.), often in preference to the same freedom for themselves.
But they want _everyone_ to help them pay for this "freedom from
want" for these disadvantaged others. They usually want everyone
_forced_ to pay.

This has deep roots in our genetic make-up (and perhaps as Sir
Asher suggests, our spiritual make-up as well). Because of our
basic dependence on our SMALL group (originally family or SMALL
tribe) for survival -- and long childhood -- _and_ because famine
was common during the evolution of the ancestors whose genes
we've inherited, it was very important to share in order to keep
all group members alive. What happens to the group if Aug, the
bowmaker, doesn't make it through the winter -- or Mog, who knows
which berries are safe to eat?

This regular famine situation required redistribution of _food
only_ to other group members, especially during such times. It
seems to me logical to suppose some of us have inherited
tendancies that influence us to monitor "redistribution" in what
our genes (or spirits) "feel" is in the interest of keeping the
group members alive. Some of us have, perhaps, become hyper-
sensitive to other people's irresponsibility, not understanding
that, especially these days, such irresponsibility is rarely
fatal and most can recover from bouts of it perfectly well on
their own. ("Envy" may well be a more personal genetic
inheritance that causes more direct pressures for
redistribution.)

But we're getting, ah, actually, I will uncharacteristically take
responsibility - - - I'M getting far afield. So to sum-up, it
seems to me that modern liberals, possibly because of genetic
predispositions, have separated from their classical liberal
heritage in that they want the good things for the group, but
they want someone else -- government and big business -- to pay
for it. Particularly, they want to give those people comprising
"government" the power to force businesses (the rich) to pay.
Classical liberals (and modern libertarians), on the otherhand,
knew that businesses, at least when not in cahoots with those
comprising governments, were the friend of prosperity for all,
not it's enemies.

"Conservatives, on the otherhand, recognize more or less
correctly, that business propserity leads to (trickle down,
remember) general prosperity. They often go too far, however and
ALSO want government help, but in their case, for "disadvantaged"
businesses of course. However when these values (helping the
disadvantaged _and_ helping business) become politicized, heaven
help us.

Governments, like any group, exist for themselves and their
immediate group members first. This is the basis of the
perversions and contortions that make us, ah, unhappy? annoyed?
with most things political. They promise us anything, take over
half of what we make (purportedly to give us what they promised,)
and then give us little if anything at all in return. And unlike
a free market business, we can't control government merely by
easily withholding our support (most of us don't pay taxes
voluntarily despite the IRS BS).

I think you -- and Ralph Nader -- can see where this all leads.
Really big businesses who can afford one or more of those 22,000
lobbists who "have bought and rented our government right out
from under the people" -- and the the bureaucrats who administer
the "redistribution" are the ones who get the loot, not the
disadvantaged. As a result of the reality of this
"redistribution" -- as opposed to it's rhetoric -- the rich get
richer and the poor poorer. [I have a lot of research on this
apparently paradoxical result of "redistribution" as actually
practiced by selfish (government) cliques, and if a few people
bug me, I could just post some of it. So watch out!!]

If you follow the income (re)distribution figures, you know:

"The Index of Social Well-Being," prepared annually by
Fordham University, largely based on how a society treats
its most vulnerable members such as children, shows that
America's social well-being, as measured by government
figures, dropped from a high of 77.5 in 1973, and has been
falling ever since, to a low of 37.5 in 1994. The index
shows a consistent decline of well-being extending through
both Republican and Democratic administrations. -Synopsis of
presentation by Dr. Marc Miringoff of Fordham University,
CNN Today, Oct. 14, 1996, ~14:17

"The gap between rich and poor has increased during the
first Clinton Administration. How do you explain this?"
-George Will to Sec. of Labor Robert Reich, ABC's This Week,
29 Dec 1996

According to UNICEF, 13 million American children are
malnourished. -CNN HLN, 12-15-97, 8:38pm EST {T00T.LOG}

Regards,
Journeyman

aunuggets (11/14/00; 15:04:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 41485)
SteveH .....
.
All you say surely sounds logical on the face of things, but we know how illogical some courts will twist and spin the language of things until there is no semblance of sanity left in the ruling (from the common man's perspective).

The "arbitrary" clause in the ruling of today can and will be used by either or both parties, no matter what is done in the Secretary of State's office.

To use your example:

If the Secretary of State simply refuses to consider any tallies after the 5:00 p.m. deadline today, that will be seen by the Gore camp as an "arbitrary decision" since there is no leeway for consideration of the facts surrounding the reasons for the delay or "adjustment" in the final numbers.

On the other hand, if the Secretary of State considers even a single late reporting, then the Bush camp cries foul because each and every county or precinct was not allowed the same consideration.

It is still my contention that the wording of the "ruling" in question left thing just as wide open as if it had never been made in the first place. I hope I'm wrong, but fear I may not be.

Your thoughts are nevertheless well taken.....Thanks !

ORO (11/14/00; 14:51:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 41484)
Glearis and Journeyman - responsibility and economy
Economic realities help form our experiences, which in turn affect whether we are responsible or not.

"Alone on an island" we all learn what responsibility is. We also learn the importance of having someone else to help us out. We learn the value of cooperation and of the value that others can provide us. This same lesson is taught to all on a frontier where people help each other and cooperate through bartering of labor and goods. This is also learned in the free markets, where even charity must be earned and there are no "entitlements".

Beggars do not learn responsibility from their occupation, neither do the recipients of unconditional charity. Recipients of government "entitlements" most definitely do not learn responsibility. What they learn is how to distinguish between potential beneficiaries and those who are not. They learn what actions they need to perform in order to obtain support. These have nothing to do with responsibility. Their "reward" for being responsible (by becoming self sustaining) is the cessation of assistance.

People in cities tend to think in terms of currying favor and extracting government favor because many do not see where the stuff of life is created. They are not on a farm, not in a workshop, and not in a factory. Even those working in the factory may not understand that the factory did not just come out of thin air. Furthermore, the graft at the local political level makes the economic factors that contribute to business success secondary to political issues like licenses that are given only to politically favored participants, etc... Thus people find themselves in situations where they must seek work with someone with insubstantial observable competence, selling items which they do not see formed and providing services the marketing and capital for which they did not see put in place, etc...

Responsibility is learned as a result of economic and personal lessons. City folk are much more likely not to get an education in responsibility as the view some people develop may be affected mainly by experiences of what seems to be arbitrary behavior where rewards are a result of currying favor rather than exchanging labor and goods for mutual benefit.

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 14:43:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 41483)
Steve; Agreed

If it doesn't go that way, then a nasty fix is in!

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 14:41:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 41482)
I could be wrong but
The markets are acting like the game is going to Bush. And, if the State Supreme Court rules in his favor, there won't be a charge of bias.

I think it is most important to "The men behind the curtain", to swing this to the side of least dissension.

SteveH (11/14/00; 14:36:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 41481)
Anuggets and CM
Anuggets,

To not appear abitrary and capricious and use discretion, she can set a policy that no returns will be reviewed after deadline. This will pass legal muster in my opinion. She would make a mistake to allow any returns after deadline.

What could be arbitrary about being fair to all 67 counties? She will have to order a full recount of all 67 counties in order to accept one of the 67 counties to avoid an arbitrary and capricious discretionary application of law. My predicition is she will deny all apps after 5:00pm today. This will force the Gore folks to appeal on the grounds of lack of use of discretion. They will loose on that basis. They won't be able to hold that she was arbitrary, because she won't be. The only due process argument remains lack of discretion, but she did use discretion that she wouldn't accept any more apps, which is what she said from the beginning. Let's see if this is what she does. Remember, if she let's one county return a hand count late, this will be viewed as arbitrary. Gore's camp is blowing smoke.

CM,

My take was that ECB would have to continue to buy dollars with Euros. Did you read that different? I guess one must determine why SA would convert Euros into dollars? Or, did the SA Oil Minister mean that Euros must be converted to dollars that they were only accepting?

Journeyman (11/14/00; 14:20:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 41480)
Great find! @ET
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/shaffer1.html

ET (11/14/00; 07:46:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 41448)
Why I Do Not Vote - Butler Shaffer

ET's link reposted in link above.

Regards, j.

Randy (@ The Tower) (11/14/00; 14:00:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 41479)
aunuggets and others interested in gold IRAs -- 1 (800) 869-5115
Michael or George at Centennial can assist anyone interested in IRAs that contain gold. Its one of many of the precious metals services that they are happy to provide.

Give 'em a holler. The call is free.

ORO (11/14/00; 13:53:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 41478)
aunuggets - and pure gold bullion
Eagles and bullion 999 pureness is allowed for IRAs.

Randy (@ The Tower) (11/14/00; 13:42:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 41477)
The election snafu
I believe I now know what is to be a character trapped within a Kafka novel.

On another note entirely: Cavan Man, you made me smile over your COMDEX comment. What bit of mischief have you been up to, you rascal? Thank you!

wolavka (11/14/00; 13:41:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 41476)
Forget news and politics
If you do not think gold is controlled by people who know, go back and look @ the trading range for the last 14 days in dec comex.

On 10-27 I posted a day trade position @ 264.40 ob. Now look how many days since then have traded below 264.40

DO YOU THINK THEY KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING????????

CoBra(too) (11/14/00; 13:33:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 41475)
@Java Man - I'm with you ... all the way, though
... I'm not sure if I've got the right attorney as my left hand, counting its fingers by the right hand and vice versa, lingers
to decide if he thumb
is part of the dumb
left or right - wingers?
.
... who will ever know
as all hands were aboard
before the assorted
hands? in the know
re-counted their hoard
and results were aborted!

This noble campaign
for the rule of the States
was all in vain
since its still (Bill) ... Gates!

Aw, shucks - let's wait for 2300 hours- before
the spin goes on - cb2

Cavan Man (11/14/00; 13:22:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 41474)
USAGOLD
YOU ARE NOW GETTING FREE ADVERTISING AT COMDEX.

Cavan Man (11/14/00; 13:21:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 41473)
SteveH (Saudi & Euro Settlement)
Trial balloon yes indeed and a pronouncement that The Kingdom is and/or will sell USD and buy Euro. I think that is significant. Those dollars do have a tendency to pile up.

Randy (@ The Tower) (11/14/00; 13:15:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 41472)
Graphic update to the Commentary & Review page
http://member.usagold.com/commentaryreview.html
MK has asked me to add a graph to the commentary that was not available earlier this morning. Centennial clients and subscribers may want to revisit this link (and probably press the 'Refresh' button on your browser while there) to see the chart representing the dwindling activity occurring through the London Bullion Market Association.

Writing on the wall for the bullion banks?

aunuggets (11/14/00; 13:04:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 41471)
Latest deadline decision in Floriduh....
.
Watch things unfold.

The key word will be "arbitrary".

That leaves ALOT of latitude for this judgement to be challenged, no matter what happens at this point. Basically, the latest ruling solved nothing.

If the Floriduh Secretary of State decides not to include hand counts or vote tallys after the deadline, Democrats cry "arbitrary"......or for that matter, if the Secretary of State does ANYTHING AT ALL, the Democrats will cry "arbitrary".

This most recent judicial decision didn't solve a damn thing ! It only opened doors to more and more and more litigation.

Little boy Al is NOT going to give up until he gets the toy he wants. Otherwise, he will jump up and down till he gets his way, fighting and screaming like a spoiled brat as he is drug from the toy store.

This is REALLY getting far beyond the point of pathetic.

CoBra(too) (11/14/00; 13:00:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 41470)
'Am bushed by this gory Spectacle -
of seeing the US Constitution up for litigation! -you too ?cb2

wolavka (11/14/00; 12:56:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 41469)
You asked for it
waited thru election garbage and last 14 trading days for tomorrows fmoc which appears will be positive for gold.

closed dollar and gold on major trend lines.

expect strong range.

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 12:56:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 41468)
Trigger-happy on posting.

Read that last one in haste, thought it referred to the Supreme cout judge. --- NOT!

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 12:53:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 41467)
NewsMax.com Breaking News

November 14, 2000

JUDGE IN FLORIDA UPHOLDS MONDAY DEADLINE IN BALLOT COUNT

Also on NewsMax.com:

Jack Thompson Says liberal Fla. Supreme Court Favors Gore

JavaMan (11/14/00; 12:49:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 41466)
Hello cb2...
Whether we protest, vote our conscience, or don't care, a choice between Bush and Gore is going to be made (barring any unforseen event). Since that is the reality of the situation, news that communicates the imminent demise of Al Gore is good news. That Bush might win the election is simply "less bad" news.

Peter Asher (11/14/00; 12:13:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 41465)
This just in!

2 less holidays in 2001

The Office
of Personnel Management for the federal government today
announced the 2001
holiday schedule for federal employees.

There will be two less holidays
in D.C. next year.

Halloween and Thanksgiving have been canceled.

The witch is moving to New York, and she's taking the turkey with her.

aunuggets (11/14/00; 11:34:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 41464)
sstins......Physical and IRAs
.
If I remember correctly, the U.S. American Eagle gold bullion coins are the only form of physical bullion currently allowable in IRA accounts. Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.....

CoBra(too) (11/14/00; 11:33:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 41463)
Java Man - Bad News ....
Only to leave it open to state judge to close or go(re-) on handily counting, dandy?
The whole issue is now becoming trans-parent-sitional, comical, cynical and critcal .... to your whealth - and to mine too - cb2

aunuggets (11/14/00; 11:31:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 41462)
BAD NEWS.....
.
The Gore lawyers had emergency appeal motions written and waiting to be carried directly over to the Florida State Supreme Court clerk for immediate filing in challenge to the lower court's decision on the 5p/m Tuesday certification deadline.

Check, counter check.......and the game continues.

JavaMan (11/14/00; 11:04:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 41461)
Good news...
TALLAHASSE, Fla. (Reuters) - A state judge upheld the 5 p.m. Tuesday deadline for certification of Florida's contested presidential vote.

Perplexed (11/14/00; 10:38:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 41460)
Washington election Thia Gold

We must be thinking about a different Washington State. It seems I recall after the 96 elections that it was discovered that early returned absentee ballots were stored in an unlock closet in the secretary of states complex of offices where they could be easily tampered with. There were other charges of vote fraud but I don't recall what they were. So why go to Florida, dig deeply enough and you can probably have a scandal in any state in the union. The fact that anyone in Puget Sound area voted for Al Gore after what the Democratics did to MicroSoft doesn't speak very well for the common sense factor of the Seattle area. Here in Eastern Washington thooooooo.
Still Perplexed

sstins (11/14/00; 10:24:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 41459)
Gold / IRA Question
Hello,

Not wishing to cash out my ira and pay the taxes and penalty but wishing to add physical gold to my portfolio I am looking into a self-directed IRA.

Does anyone have any insight or experience opening a self-directed IRA in order to purchase gold bullion. I am currently looking at a company by the name of American Church Trust to act as my custodian.

Thanks!

"Gold get you Some - MORE"

Steve

wolavka (11/14/00; 10:23:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 41458)
dollar index
sitting on maj trend line, could puke either way.

tedw (11/14/00; 10:06:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 41457)
Gold Reparations
http://www.usagold.com
Newsflash

In a stunning mideast development PA Chairman Yassar Arafat
has announced that Fatah will make a 1,000,000 gold reparation payment to Isreal for Mondays attacks which killed 4 Isrealis. "Im so sorry this happened" said Arafat at a morning news conference in front of a Mosque in the west Bank.

I just woke up this morning and started crying about all that has happened and the innocent people that have been killed. "I cant help but think Ive played a part in all of this" a repentant Arafat said with tears streaming down his eyes. "If only I had loved my enemy I dont believe this would have happened," said Arafat to a stunned audience.

Upon hearing the news, Israeli prime minister Barak called on all of Isreal and the Arab world to turn from their hate
and truly give their lives to God.

end of message

Galearis (11/14/00; 09:30:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 41456)
@ Journeyman
re liberatarianism
Nice to talk to you again. I don't have a lot of time to get into these abstract political discussions today, but I salute you for your measured, considerate approach to discussion.

Boiling everything down (I like doing it even if simplistic approaches preclude communication of complex concepts): I said that people were "irresponsible". Not "evil". Of course some people are evil (smile). (Bush or Gore are not either (smile).)

Libertarians consider that people are basically "responsible". That is what I said. I said that in my opinion people tend to "irresponsible"

That is a world of difference from "evil". I can go further and say that one can distill down the socialist attitude on this point too. They too believe that people tend to be irresponsible.

This does not make me, however, a socialist. But it does make me a liberal who stands in the middle looking both ways with more than a little amusement at the scenery.

The point I was trying to make is that Libertarianism like extreme socialism is niave.

And note that the environmental points of my post were not considered. (Please excuse if I missed something in my quick scan.) Would that be because the Libertarians do not have a position on this. If so, I find it curious because outside the human experience the so-called ecology of our "environment" IS off the map [smile})- on both sides of the political spectrum. The extreme right AND the extreme left has this failing. So in the middle (the so-called liberals)there seems to be a concern. I consider this laudable. I know that much of this has been determined by culture, but at the risk of sounding TOO liberal (smile), not "paying" attention would seem to be having some major consequences. This area is, to put things into perspective, FAR more important than the ups and downs of the precious metals industry. Just because people seem to refuse to look at it or address it will just make it uglier when down the road it impacts systemically enough to be obvious to all.

Rockgrabber (11/14/00; 09:28:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 41455)
ECB interventions
I cant believe how smart the ECB is. Just look at what price the are getting for the dollars the are selling, and just look at the price of the Euros they are buying. WHAT A DEAL!! Even the IMF has been saying all week the Euro is at least 30% undervalued. How does that play out when they sell something 30% overvalued and buy something 30% undervalued. Does that end up being like 60 percent gains once the market corrects?? Now they are the only ones doing the interventions. The first time they had all kinds of central bank help, now they are on there own. I dont think they want this valuation thing to correct itself untill they dump more overvalued dollars and buy more undervalued Euros. Once everybody else catches on they will be WAY ahead of the game!! Thats is what a central bank should do if it sees such a opportunity, or has created such an opportunity, you had better take advatage of it before it is to late. They are doing so.

The writting is on the wall for everybody to see. These interventions are known, they are making them known, and later it will be seen why.

SteveH (11/14/00; 09:02:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 41454)
Link to Article on Saudi Oil and Euro
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Economies&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_econ&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=ad_position1_economies&bt2=blk&middle=ad_frame2_economies&s=AOhFZGRQBU2F1ZGkg
Here is pertinent paragraph:

Oil in Euros?

The minister signaled Saudi Arabia was unlikely to adopt the euro for the pricing of a portion of its oil sales, rejecting a path led by OPEC colleague Iraq.

``Unless there is a clear-cut benefit to change from a currency that both consumers and producers are happy with, there is no real justification to change,'' al-Naimi said. ``The dollar is a solid currency, it has been the historical currency of oil trade, so why change? We can still buy the euro, especially now. It's good to buy euros with dollars.''

Crude oil and future contracts are both priced and traded in U.S. dollars. Iraq has said it wants oil exports to be priced in euros because the dollar is the currency of ``an enemy state.''

European Central Bank council member Ernst Welteke welcomed that decision and urged other nations to follow suit.

Rockgrabber (11/14/00; 09:01:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 41453)
SteveH
If you dont get to bloombergs energy site from bloomberg go there through OPEC.com and then a bit down on the left is the bloomberg energy link.

SteveH (11/14/00; 09:00:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 41452)
Link to Article on Saudi Oil and Euro
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Economies&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_econ&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=ad_position1_economies&bt2=blk&middle=ad_frame2_economies&s=AOhFZGRQBU2F1ZGkg
fyi.

Rockgrabber (11/14/00; 08:56:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 41451)
SteveH
bloomberg.com energy area has it. Its there article on the page right now "Saudi Oil Minister says World can endure $30 crude" Its at the end of the article.

Sorry I have yet to learn how to even put up links like you all do ( I will read the directions one of these times, that will probably be one way to learn how.)

SteveH (11/14/00; 08:17:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 41450)
Rockgrabber
Can you post the link or the exact quote. The fact that he was asked the question and publicly responded is quite significant, imo. I believe this is called testing the water or floating a trial baloon.

Rockgrabber (11/14/00; 08:00:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 41449)
Oil in Euros
The Saudi oil minister did state today that he does not see any reason to switch payment to Euro. He is happy with the dollar, but did say it was a very good idea to buy Eoros with dollars, especially now. But if it became benificial to take payment in Euros rather then dollars, it could be done.

Why change a market dynamic that is producing in your favor ???(heard that from Trail Guide)

ET (11/14/00; 07:46:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 41448)
Why I Do Not Vote - Butler Shaffer
http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/shaffer1.html

Why I Do Not Vote

by Butler Shaffer

With the 2000 election behind us � if, indeed, it will ever be behind us � I have
now gone 36 years without participating in the voting process. It was not always
thus. Upon my graduation from law school, my first full-time job was that of
executive secretary of the Nebraska Republican Party. I later became a member of
the State Central Committee, the Young Republican State Executive Committee,
one of the incorporators of Barry Goldwater's first national fund-raising campaign,
and a member of the Nebraska delegation to the 1964 Republican National
Convention. The Goldwater movement was the precursor to the modern
Libertarian Party, and was largely energized by young men and women who were
convinced that state power had become destructive of individual liberty and social
order, and that "working within the system" could change all of that. My
experiences in the Republican Party convinced me otherwise. Like Karl Hess, a
man who was to become one of my dearest friends years later, I quickly lost my
appetite for politics and have never returned.

Is there a case to be made for voting? Indeed there is, if one believes that social
order is a quality that can be instilled, by violence and other coercive means, by
political authorities. I do not accept this proposition. To the contrary, I believe that
social order is the product of unseen, spontaneous influences of which most of us
are not consciously aware. The study of economics helped me to understand how
we respond, marginally, to fluctuations that are continuously generated by one
another's self-seeking pursuits. I also came to understand that politics � like a rock
thrown through a spider's web � disrupts these informal processes as well as the
existing patterns of interconnectedness upon which any social order depends.

I suspect that most of those reading these words share my sense of liberty and
social order, and so I shall not address the mindset of the statists herein. I
understand the temptation, born largely of a sense of frustration, of wanting to
participate in the political process in order to get persons elected who more closely
reflect one's views. The illusion of a short-term reduction in the rate of increase of
state power clouds the longer-term consequences inherent in political participation.
Political systems derive their power not from guns and prisons, but from the
willingness of those who are to be ruled to expend their energies on their behalf.
For state power to exist, a significant number of men and women must sanction
the idea of being ruled by others, a sanction that depends, ultimately, upon the
credibility of those who exercise such power. When we vote in an election, we are
declaring, by our actions, our support for the process of some people ruling
others by coercive means. Our motivations for such participation � even if they be
openly expressed as a desire to bring state power to an end � do not mitigate the
fact that our energies are being employed on behalf of the destructive principle that
liberty and social order can best be fostered through the coercive machinery of the
state.

One of the sadder comments that I heard, just prior to the recent election, was
from a radio talk show host whose thoughtful and analytical mind I generally
respect. In response to a caller who complained that Gov. Bush was
philosophically inconsistent upon some issue, he declared that "politics is the art
of compromise," and that if one wanted principled consistency, one could find it
"only in a religion." It is this attitude upon which I wish to focus, for I believe that
the conflicts we experience � both within ourselves as individuals and socially �
derive from a sense of division. The attitude that one's philosophic principles are
nothing more than interesting "ideas" that have no relevance to how we behave
with others � an attitude that is implicit in this talk show host's remarks � is what is
destroying us, both individually and societally. It derives from the same sentiment,
articulated in the actions of Bill Clinton, that truth-telling is simply one of a number
of strategies available in efforts to reach political "compromise;" that a lie is as
good as the truth if you can get others to believe it. It is the notion that principles
are nothing more than fungible commodities � to be traded according to the prices
dictated by prevailing fashion � that now directs the seemingly endless cycle of
vote recounts in Florida. As Groucho Marx put it: "Those are my principles. If
you don't like them, I have others."

I have long found nourishment in the words of Richard Weaver: "ideas have
consequences." If I am of the view that politics is destroying our world � and let
us not forget that politics managed to kill off some 200,000,000 of our fellow
humans in the 20th century alone � am I prepared to direct my energies into such a
destructive system? If I answer "yes," which I would do if I voted, then do my
philosophic principles have any real-world meaning to them, or are they simply
amusing ideas to be talked about, debated, or dispersed across cyberspace? If I
cannot end the division within myself by living with integrity (i.e., by having my
behavior and my principles integrated into a coherent whole) then what hope is
there for the rest of mankind doing so? I am mankind, as are you, and as Carl
Jung so eloquently put it: "if the individual is not truly regenerated in spirit, society
cannot be either;" that the individual must realize "that he is the one important
factor and that the salvation of the world consists in the salvation of the individual
soul." To participate in politics is to consciously devote one's energies to
mass-mindedness; to the statist proposition that collective thinking and collective
behavior preempt the will of the individual.

Still, there is a basis for optimism. Just as the marketplace generates its own
responses to government regulatory schemes, there are informal processes at work
undercutting the foundations of statism. The collapse of the Soviet Union and the
discrediting of state socialism generally; anti-taxation and secessionist movements
throughout the world; the study of chaos � whose major tenet that complex
systems are unpredictable strips away any rationale for state planning and control;
the Internet as an unrestrained expression of information and ideas; and, in
America, the contributions of Clinton and Gore to bringing discredit upon and
destroying the credibility not only of the presidency, but of government itself, have
all been major contributors to the terminal condition of Leviathan. How
remarkable, that the Internet � which Al Gore advised us he created! � should now
be the undoing of the imperial presidency that he and Mr. Clinton sought to
enlarge! What better confirmation of the power of unintended consequences!

At no period in my lifetime have the opportunities for reversing the dehumanizing
nature of politically dominated societies been greater. Leviathan is dying as a
consequence of its inner contradictions. Those of us who love liberty should
rethink any temptations we might have to rush to the deathbed of statism and
attempt to revivify its corpse by giving it a transfusion of our energies. The society
upon which statism has fed will doubtless undergo a few headaches, fevers, and
upset stomachs in the interim. But like a case of the flu, it may be better to let the
sickness run its course rather than continue our habit of suppressing the
symptoms.

November 14, 2000

Butler Shaffer teaches at the Southwestern University School of Law.

Black Blade (11/14/00; 06:53:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 41447)
Looks like ASEAN or in this case - APEC is "SOL" on Oil
http://www.abc.net.au/news/business/2000/11/item20001112223730_1.htm
APEC calls for increased oil production

Asia Pacific economies are calling for a lift in oil production to drive down world petrol prices. Ministers of the 21 APEC economies are meeting in Brunei. The conference of trade and foreign ministers, ahead of next week's summit, have agreed on the need to lift oil output to cut prices. Producing countries such as Brunei and Indonesia have gone along with the call for a fall in prices to avoid inflation and slowing international growth. Australian Foreign Minister Alexander Downer says APEC must keep up diplomatic pressure. "Our position is a very strong one on oil prices," he said. "We think oil prices needs to be a major focus of the APEC agenda this year." Mr Downer says oil prices need to be driven down from $32 a barrel to about $25 a barrel.

Economic growth

The Asia Pacific has achieved its strongest economic growth in more than a decade. A survey released at the APEC meeting predicts a soft landing for regional economies next year. The Pacific Economic Cooperation Council says that this year was the best for growth in 12 years with the Asia Pacific averaging more than 5.5 per cent. Developing east Asian economies grew by nearly 8 per cent, again the strongest rate in more than a decade. The United States' 10 years of continuous expansion is described as extraordinary. South-east Asia put in the weakest performance this year with only Singapore and Malaysia matching their growth average for the decade. The economic council predicts a benign slow down next year with the Asia pacific forecast to achieve an economic soft landing.

OPEC satisfied

The oil producers organisation, OPEC, is reported to have agreed to maintain oil production levels despite the persistently high price of fuel. Oil analysts say the decision will be officially confirmed in Vienna on Monday at an extraordinary meeting of the cartel. The meeting was postponed from Sunday as a mark of respect for the victims of the Austrian mountain railway fire.

Black Blade: Forget about it. Oil ain't coming back down. Producers are nearly maxed out on production, refineries are at capacity, and no new Super-Giants have been discovered in years. Can you say inflation? I knew you could.

Black Blade (11/14/00; 06:35:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 41446)
Forced DLA Palladium Sale
US DLA sold 28,064 oz palladium during October

New York--Nov. 13--The U.S. Defense Logistics Agency announced Monday the aggregated October platinum group metals sales results. During October, the DLA sold 28,064 oz of palladium for an overall approximate value of $20.8 million.

Black Blade: Pathetic. The DLA is under orders to sell Pd since the producers can't deliver in sufficient quantity. What's pathetic is that the DLA doesn't have that much left either and most of that is scrap. Platinum is also in a very tight squeeze. Fuel Cell technology is touted as the solution to high-priced oil, but it appears that it will be very high-priced fuel cells first. Platinum is increasing in popularity for the jewelry trade, and more countries mandate the use of catalytic converters to meet clean air requirements. PGM prices look to rocket higher. In fact, Norilsk Nickel Chairman Yuri Kotlyar is predicting a Pd price of $1000.00/oz.

dragonfly (11/14/00; 05:50:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 41445)
RossL

Excellent thoughts. Thanks for the link.

The DNR just read me the riot act for putting a wounded doe out of her misery. I didn't have the "right" to shoot their property.

Regards
dragonfly

Black Blade (11/14/00; 05:46:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 41444)
NG Article that originally appeared on theStreet.com
Natural Gas May Give You Heartburn
By Christopher Edmonds
Special to TheStreet.com
Originally posted at 9:01 AM ET 10/27/00 on RealMoney.com

Thirteen-dollar gas? Natural gas, that is.

Some say it's possible -- and soon. Phillip Pace and his colleagues at Credit Suisse First Boston suggest the winter months may spur significantly higher natural gas prices. "We do not believe that much of the winter gas demand is elastic in the short term," Pace wrote in a recent note to clients. "[W]ith no plentiful, cheap supply of heating oil available, gas can ascend to whatever heights the market chooses. We doubt this is only 10 or 20% above current prices."

Pace's argument is a compelling example of too much demand and too little supply. He argues that natural gas demand can increase by 100% in the winter heating months. His math deserves thought: The average winter month pushes natural gas demand to around 80 billion cubic feet per day with demand reaching a peak of nearly 100 billion cubic feet per day. However, total supply, including imports, comes to only 60 billion cubic feet per day. Hence, even in a normal winter, sellers have increased pricing power. "As a result," Pace wrote, "The marginal buyer without adequate storage sets the price in the winter."

And this won't be a normal winter. From a supply standpoint, the season will begin with very low natural gas inventories. Even with Thursday's report from the American Gas Association that gas inventories rose 71 billion cubic feet, storage is still 12% below last year's levels. And, as of last week, the storage was at 77.8% of full capacity compared to a five-year average of 89%, with all regions well short of historic levels.

Additionally, unlike the previous two years of very mild winters, long-range forecasts from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration suggest a colder than normal winter, including more subzero days in the central part of the nation, and colder weather along the Eastern Seaboard. Both regions rely heavily on fuel oil and natural gas for heat. And, the subzero days are troubling for supply, as the frigid arctic air is what drives gas usage to the 100 billion cubic feet per day peak levels. "If a predicted colder than normal winter follows the recent cool weather, we could see gas prices easily rising above the current rich levels," said Mark Easterbrook, natural gas and power analyst at Dain Rauscher Wessels in Dallas.

But is $13 gas realistic? After all, the recent highs in natural gas prices have only touched $5.50, and prices have slipped well below $5 this week. Pace says yes, and uses recent electricity markets to justify the claim. Since wholesale power was deregulated and power trading became widespread in 1998, peak summer demand has driven electricity prices through the roof. "Electricity prices spike by 50 to 100 times when demand gets peaky and prices in California are two to four times as high as in previous years," he wrote. "The impact of the weather in the winter is a more constant increase in demand for natural gas than what electricity experiences in the summer."

Pace says that creates the potential for price spikes -- two to three times the current natural gas prices -- in the coming months, and he believes they could last significantly longer than the temporary surges in power prices. "Importantly, we believe a $13 price could persist for a month or so, not just a few hours or a day. Most gas is sold during bid-week, just before the next month begins. Conditions during these days moving into December and January will be critical to prices."

What do those in the trenches think of Pace's prediction? It's possible under the right circumstances. "Could we see $13 gas for a short period of time under the right circumstances?" one natural gas trader asks. "It's a little stretch, but with the right temperatures and tight supply, it is possible."

Regardless of the exact numbers, this winter will see tight supply and higher prices. Investors looking to profit from inflated prices can either focus on the companies that produce gas, figuring higher prices lead to higher profits, or focus on companies that trade and market natural gas, and hope increased price volatility will lead to trading profits.

On the production side, Easterbrook and his colleagues at Dain Rauscher suggests looking at large-cap companies like Louis Dreyfus Natural Gas (LD:NYSE - news), Barrett Resources (BRR:NYSE - news), EOG Resources (EOG:NYSE - news) and Newfield Exploration (NFX:NYSE - news). He rates Louis Dreyfus as a strong buy and the others as a buy. Dain Rauscher has provided banking services to both Louis Dreyfus and EOG Resources in the past three years.

If you are looking for small-caps, he suggests looking at the Houston Exploration Company (THX:NYSE - news) and Chieftain International (CID:NYSE - news). He rates both as strong buys, and his firm has recently provided banking services for Chieftain. From a trading perspective, the leader in the market is Enron (ENE:NYSE - news) which moves twice as much gas through its trading operation than its closest competitor. However, trading at nearly 50 times its 2001 earnings estimates, some analysts suggest it is fully valued. And, with its entrance into broadband and other commodities markets, it is no longer a pure energy play. Other companies with leading positions in natural gas trading include Duke Energy (DUK:NYSE - news), Dynegy (DYN:NYSE - news), Utilicorp's (UCU:NYSE - news) Aquila Energy division and El Paso Energy (EPG:NYSE - news). Easterbrook rates Enron a strong buy and both Dynegy and El Paso a buy. His firm has not provided banking services to any.

While all of these companies stand to benefit from short-term surges in gas prices, CS First Boston's Pace doesn't see price extremes as a long-term positive for natural gas companies. "If it helps the stocks, it will be like borrowing from tomorrow to pay today," he wrote. "Such a spike should probably be viewed as an event to sell into unless the stock completely decouple from the commodity, as they do on occasion."

For now, however, as the weather sends a chill up your spine, natural gas stocks may well add warmth to your portfolio.

Christopher S. Edmonds is president of Resource Dynamics, a private financial consulting firm based in Atlanta. At time of publication, neither Edmonds nor his firm held positions in any securities mentioned in this column, although holdings can change at any time. Under no circumstances does the information in this column represent a recommendation to buy or sell stocks. While Edmonds cannot provide investment advice or recommendations, he welcomes your feedback and invites you to send it to Chris Edmonds .

Black Blade: $13.00 Mbtu? Maybe. The fundamentals are very positive for NG. There has been a lack of preparation for energy needs in the US. This will come back at Americans in spades. Rig counts are up and companies are scavanging junkyards for old rigs. It could get interesting. As more NG is required for new power generation, it will only put more pressure on business and the energy hungry "New Economy." It will hit the bottom line and consumers will pay up in the form of higher prices. Anyway, this article should give everyone something to chew on as winter comes on full strength.

RossL (11/14/00; 05:42:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 41443)
Earth in the balance?
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment111300g.shtml

"So it is around the world even today, without restraints, every elephant , every rhino, every whale ,every tiger, every deer, every shrimp will be hunted down and killed.."

This sentence describes a failure of collectivism, not a failure of capitalism or liberty. If every one of those whale, tiger, deer and shrimp had owners, yes, human OWNERS who cared about the value of his property, defended it and maintained it, this problem would go away. In a collectivist society where nobody owns the resources, there is no incentive to conserve.

Of course, communists or fascists will argue that the government owns everything or controls all property. Government has no incentive to conserve or discover correct price information. That is why you see clear cutting on government land in the US west and Canadian north. It is too good of an opportunity to control people and take bribes. See the link above.

ThaiGold (11/14/00; 04:47:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 41442)
Simply Me: Golden Glory
Ladybird. 8-Ball. That's precious.!. Golden 'trievers. Beautiful
dogs. You're right. Dobies don't harken much to training. As
you said: "Not good for discipline."
But I learn quickly, and Rain_Dog has me pretty well trained.
...'nite

Mr Gresham (11/14/00; 04:45:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 41441)
Greenspan Goodie
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A1742-2000Nov11.html
Excerpt from Woodward's book on behind-the-scenes at the '87 crash.

ThaiGold (11/14/00; 04:37:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 41440)
Topaz: Half-Page-Width
It's a Browser thing...
If I'm writing lazyish, just using the default write-window of
the submit-message link, I use it like a typewriter, since it's
confusing to me whether or not it word wrapped or not, and
just where the line breaks occur, I'm never sure. & I'm stupid.
Other times, if I prepare -say- a longer essay, offline in some
other word processor (or usually just NotePad) I can create
lines that look longer, nicer, etc.
picky pick picky. get some sleep.

Simply Me (11/14/00; 04:31:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 41439)
@Thai and Topaz - Dogz
I can finally get back on subject here! Got a GOLDEN Labrador/Retriever mix named Ladybird. A graceful girl...loyal, smart, fast, and lots of heart! Goes nose to nose, growling at the German Shepherd next door if he gets to close. She can chew up a sizeable hunk o' wood with the best of 'em...but never leaves a mark on the kids when they rough & tumble. And most important, doesn't chew up our persnickity solid black cat, 8-Ball.

I think a Doberman or Rottweiler would scare the crap out of me, even if it was my dog! Not good for discipline.
simply

ThaiGold (11/14/00; 04:23:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 41438)
Topaz: Attack Dogs... big babies...
... Last post for Tonight ...
I'm pretty dense. It just sunk in... Pav-a-Rotti. That's great.!.
With the other two, you'd have the Three Tenor's.?.
Rottweiler's are sly. Once a neighbor rancher, who has one,
left his pickup parked just inside my gate, near the county
road. Musta gone shopping or something in a friend's car. But
he left his Rottweiler at his truck. On my property. And I didn't
know it. I saw the truck from a quarter mile away, and decided
to walk over there to see if everything was okay. Took my
Rain_Dog along, as he enjoys that long walk to the gate each
day. We got to the truck and didn't see nor hear anything. So
we turned back after deciding nobody was in need of any help.
Then all of a sudden, out of nowhere, a rustle of black fur, a
growl, and a cloud of dust. When I was able to see again, my
Rain_Dog had the guy's sneaky Rottweiler pinned down, by
the throat. I called him off, realizing it was my neighbor's dog,
and generally a friendly pooch. Rain_Dog then understood,
and the three of us walked back to the barn for some friendly
doggie biscuit snacks. And PrestoLogs.
Goodnight...

Topaz (11/14/00; 04:10:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 41437)
Last one Thai.

Thai, It's always intrigued me and...since no-ones around...can you tell me....How come your posts are only half page width?
Do you "enter" at the end of the posting box (a-la a Typewriter) or is it just a browser thing?

Topaz (11/14/00; 04:03:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 41436)
Thai: Dawgs

Good to see those Republicans have ethics Thai.
On Dogs, our (read the Missus's) REAL dog is a Lhasa Apso/Maltese Terrier X, Now theres a non-dog if ever there was one.
"Bark, Bark, Bark-bark-bark-bark, BARK, all day & night and when you yell at it, it cowers in the corner piddling itself.
Strange thing, they're as popular as all getout here at the present.
We had (before non-dog) a Sydney silky terrier until the Neighbour skittled him....A dog amongst dogs. Balls and Brains. Makes me sad to think of him.

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 3:44:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 41435)
Topaz: Whoppers
... We luv Our Petz ...
Rottweiler's are cousins to Dobies. Similar markings. They've
long hair. Dobies are short hair. And short fused. Can't leave
mine on the front porch. Would eat anyone that walked by.
Usually not too hungry tho'. Just eats a bowl or two of ground
up alligator each morning. Grinds them hisself.
He likes to chew on things. Anythings. Especially wood. Tree
branches, trunks, stumps, you name it. Instead of dogbones,
I just buy him a pak of PrestoLogs once a week.
Tried to register Billy and Nanny. My goats. But the lady at
the courthouse... obviously a Republican, scrupulously honest
said they aren't old enuf yet.

Topaz (11/14/2000; 3:32:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 41434)
Thai: BIG Dogs.
Hey Thai,
You into big dogs too?
My BIG Dog is a Rock Rottweiler.
There he sits, right at my front door.. day in day out... scaring the Sh!t out of anyone who doesn't get too close. Eat's bugger all and drinks even less. Call him "Pav"
Yup...you got it...Pav-the-Rottie <wink>

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 3:19:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 41433)
PunchLine...
... Next Election ...
... will order an Absentee Ballot for Rain_Dog.
Like I always do for Muffet. My kitty.

Topaz (11/14/2000; 3:16:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 41432)
China - WTO
Heard today on Newsradio:-
The latest stumbling block to China's entry to the WTO is the abysmal state of her "acceptable" production, ie. one 1 in 4 items produced is a "copy" of someone else's product.
Copyright/patent laws are in place but are virtually being ignored.
Bet ya it don't stop em before Xmas though.
Maybe Copyright/patent is passe, yesterday's profit locker. The Islamics think so, The Chinese probably think so too.

You wanna buy a Rolex??

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 2:59:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 41431)
One Dog: One Vote
... Where Does an 80 Lb Doberman Vote.?...
Answer: Anywhere He Wants.!.

The local polling workers here in Washington State are
much more alert than those in Florida. At least in these
remote areas. Wheatlands and such.

When I took Rain_Dog into the precinct so he could vote
(I'd already registered him), he (typically) chewed-up his
punch card ballot. He badgered the pollworker for a new ballot.
But they rebuffed him vigorously (from a distance) and refused.

Guess we'll move to Florida. Where the Votin's easy.

ThaiGold

Topaz (11/14/2000; 2:47:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 41430)
WTO - WGC & Whatnot!
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/001113/ny_world_g.html
...from the above Link:-
< Among several far reaching reforms, the WGC proposes the establishment of an exchange in a major Chinese city such as Beijing or Shanghai to trade in spot gold only. Chinese producers would be allowed to sell part of their gold output through the exchange. >
...the old WGC, they SAY some good stuff, but what do they DO?..........sell trinkets..duh!
Link via Kitco, tks.

Simply Me (11/14/2000; 2:38:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 41429)
@ThaiGold re:Snowbirds
It's true about the large Snowbird population. New Yorkers tend to prefer the Miami area. The Great Lakes Northerners (from Michigan, Pennsylvania..that area) seem to prefer the Tampa area. And a huge number of Canadians (fewer since their dollar has fallen in value) seem to spread out all over the Panhandle and down the Gulf Coast to Tampa every winter. As a matter of fact, it was the Canadian winter visitors that first earned the nickname Snowbirds.

I wouldn't think there would be much double voting amoung the senior crowd though. In general, they a very law-abiding bunch. Their habit of driving drunk is more because they just don't think of themselves as drunks! They're not paying attention to how much they drink and they don't realize the affect it's having on them because of their age and multiple medications!

Now..the Canadian Snowbirds tend to be wealthier, a bit younger and not above taking the chance to affect the climate in a place where they spend 5 months out of the year! They're the ones who would likely vote in two places. And given the socialist bent of Canadian politics, they would lean toward the democrats.

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 2:23:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 41428)
ABC NightLine's Aaron Brown
... UnBelieveable...
Did anyone watch tonight's episode of ABC's NightLine.?.
They had Aaron Brown "sitting in" for Ted Koppel, who was
apparently taking the night off to get rebnriefed by the Gore
team for their next spin and his tomorrow night's script
.
Anyway, I remember when Aaron Brown was a cub reporter
for TV station KIRO in Seattle, many years ago, and when he
was elevated to ABC as a roving reporter. Nice guy. Intelligent,
and believeable. Hardly the type that ABC generally airs.
I digress.
Anyway, tonight Aaron "interviewed" the Gore WarRoom's
chief spokesman, who earlier had given a lengthy spin diatribe
on the PBS NewsHour via Jim Leherer, who questioned not
one whit of the guy's 5-minute pro-Gore speech.

Yet I was amazed and listened in disbelief tonight, as Aaron
(bless his heart) repeatedly stopped the guy in mid-spin and
had the audacity to question his spin remarks. The guy was
clearly nunplussed and nearly forgot his script.

Methinks Aaron will no longer be seen on ABC NightLine, after
such a deviation. Looking forward to him again at KIRO.

ThaiGold

Simply Me (11/14/2000; 2:16:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 41427)
Why is THIS election so important?
Why now? Why is this election important enough to risk political reputations and national unrest? I wonder what's at stake for the Democrats here.
More than just the Presidency, no doubt. Many a man, especially as young as Al Gore, has run more than once for President. Why risk a run in 2004 or 2008 by labeling yourself as the "bad loser"?
If this election dispute winds up in court, then you know the stakes must be huge because MANY political heads will be on the chopping block.
What objective (or objectives)would make the Democratic army risk so many officer level soldiers on one battle? What information exposed, or plans derailed?

Any thoughts? China & the WTO deal? Control of the ESF & PPT? GOLD market manipulations?
simply

Topaz (11/14/2000; 2:11:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 41426)
Thai Gold
Yup Thai, that was my initial take on it too (there's no way out but to cover your short pos'n with Bullion) but Mr Tree indicated a "paper Gold dump" in the post and I'm keen to get his perspective.
Judging by the continued fall-off in T/O through LMBA the market is fast approaching a Market Makers shell game and in MHO they'll palm off their excess exposure (as several did recently) to one another - "Hot-potato, Hot-potato"

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 1:56:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 41425)
Floriduh SnowBirds
Attn: Simply Me (11/14/2000; 1:47:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 41424)
Simply Me:
I read an interesting news item that mentioned that many of
Florida's senior citizens are retired "SnowBirds". That is folks
who live in -say- New York City most of the year, then migrate
to sunny Florida each winter. And of course, vote absentee in
New York and again, as "residents" in Florida.

One Person: Two Votes. PH in LA would be Pleased.

ThaiGold

Simply Me (11/14/2000; 1:47:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 41424)
Floriduh
A seldom mentioned problem is Alcoholism among the senior population of Florida. Out of boredom, they start with Bloody Mary's for breakfast, sip highballs in the afternoon, and watch the sunset with cocktails on the lanai! Most of the drunks on the road are over 65. No wonder they couldn't follow an arrow on a ballot!

I lived in Floriduh for 25 years (10 years, Panama City in the Panhandle...15 years, Tampa Bay area) before happily packing up to move to middle Tennessee, so I know whereof I speak.
simply

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 1:45:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 41423)
The Opposite, I think
Attn: Topaz (11/14/2000; 1:38:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 41422)
Topaz:
I read his comments as the opposite for POG.
If the derivitives (mostly heavily short) must be closed out
off their books in Q1, 2001 it would result in heavy buying
of Gold etc contracts to close out those positions.
POG would go upwards considerably in such an event.

ThaiGold

Topaz (11/14/2000; 1:38:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 41422)
Tree of life.
Thanks for being here, scroll button just about worn out.
Your take on the Derivative position pre-Q1 2001 is a wholesale liquidation of their positions and accompanying landslide of POG, Is this correct?

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 1:11:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 41421)
VIRUS ALERT: NAVIDAD.EXE
...Circulating tonight via eGroups Email Server...
The "eGroups" email server is apparently infected tonight
with the "NAVIDAD.EXE" attachment, which is a VIRUS.

Myself, have received two copies of it already this evening
via various eGroups automatic e-mails.

Beware everyone. Do not "open" nor click-upon the
attachment file named NAVIDAD.EXE in your emails.

SteveH (11/14/2000; 1:06:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 41420)
Whilst we sleep and watch the election
the price of oil, et al, puts the pressure on. Tell me. Has gold possibly aligned with the Euro now in some fashion or am I missing something?

Market Mth Open High Low Last Change Date Time Bid Ask
Crude Oil(NYM)(Access) Dec 34.48 34.68 34.45 34.61 +0.19 11/13/00 23:30 34.57 34.61
Crude Oil(NYM)(Access) Jan 33.56 33.75 33.56 33.75 +0.19 11/13/00 22:58 33.61 33.65
Heating Oil(NYM)(Access) Dec 101.75 102.45 101.70 102.45 +0.82 11/13/00 20:08 102.25 102.50
Unleaded Gas(NYM)(Access) Dec 88.50 89.00 88.50 89.00 +0.48 11/13/00 22:31 88.85 89.00
Natural Gas(NYM)(Access) Dec 5.69 6.00 5.65 5.84 +0.14 11/13/00 21:40 5.83 5.84

Black Blade (11/14/2000; 0:54:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 41419)
Voting - It's Just a Game!
I just saw a segment on the news about university students in Wisconsin that voted multiple times. There were about 114 students who claimed to have voted more than once. They said that no one had bothered to check ID's and that they just were handed a ballot and voted. One student when told that it was a felony, simply stared into space with a glazed over look. Yep, America's best and brightest.

YGM (11/14/2000; 0:37:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 41418)
El Guy-------Peter A.
Bush/Barrick
To the best of my memory he rsigned from board of directors many mo ago...Barrick site might list them (directors) tho...btw..thanks for your good wishes re Mining....YGM

Peter...these "ARE STILL" the halls of respect and enlightenment and I hope this never changes...Regards...YGM
zzzzzzzzzz....thud!

ThaiGold (11/14/2000; 0:32:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 41417)
Ooops: Judicial Intervention
Attn: SteveH (11/14/2000; 0:06:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 41410)
[snip]
Therefore, I anticipate that the presidential
election in Florida will be officially certified by Saturday afternoon,
barring judicial intervention.
[unsnip]

keywords: "barring judicial intervention".

Hey folks: Let's not get too enthused just yet.

Journeyman (11/14/2000; 0:29:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 41416)
Duh, & thanx @Peter Asher

Hi Sir Peter!

Duh! Don't know who originated "If human nature is good, we don't need much government . . . " -- ran across it before I began taking detailed notes I guess.

Thanx for the nomination/s!! It's sure a tough house anymore! ORO even dissed his OWN post that I nominated a few days ago!!!

Regards,
Journeyman

P.S. Thanx for the "football season" e-mail! As you can see, I'm running a bit behind schedule. ;<

Peter Asher (11/14/2000; 0:23:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 41415)
You don't suppose?

This whole thing is being worked out by the "Men Behind the Curtain" so that Al can "Die with dignity."

Peter Asher (11/14/2000; 0:20:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 41414)
@ Black Blade

I guess that woud be De-moter-voter registration! (-:))

Peter Asher (11/14/2000; 0:17:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 41413)
Hey Al! Sur-p-r-i-se !!

Deadline Looms As Recount
Continues

By Jackie Hallifax
Associated Press Writer
Monday, Nov. 13, 2000; 9:44 p.m. EST

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. �� Florida's secretary of state had
this message Monday for election workers weary from the
tedious task of counting presidential votes: hurry up.

Sticking to a firm state deadline, Republican Secretary of
State Katherine Harris said all 67 counties must finish their
recounts by 5 p.m. Tuesday.

But her decision was challenged hours later in court by
lawyers for Palm Beach and Volusia counties, Democrat Al
Gore and the Florida Democratic Party, who said counties
should have as much time as they need to complete their
hand counts.

Broward County, one of the four Florida counties weighing
full recounts by hand, rejected the idea late Monday after
workers performed a manual count in three precincts and
turned up no major problems.

The strong Democratic county, which includes Fort
Lauderdale, found only four additional votes for Gore after
hand counting 3,892 ballots in three precincts.

Black Blade (11/14/2000; 0:16:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 41412)
Floriduh Geezers!
I have to admit that the stupid old geezers in Florida are the laughing stock of the whole planet Earth. The seem to have no trouble with managing multiple bingo cards or golf scores though. Looks like now they want a Mulligan. It's no wonder that most Americans want the driving laws changed so that the elderly have to take mandatory driving tests each year for a driver's license. Those in Florida appear to be too stupid to know how to vote and are incapable of following directions. Obviously they should not be allowed to drive, as they are a danger to the community at large. Re-vote? Sure, but surrender your driver's license as you pick up your ballot!

Peter Asher (11/14/2000; 0:14:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 41411)
SteveH (11/14/2000; 0:06:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 41410)
Done!

SteveH (11/14/2000; 0:06:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 41410)
Leader emerges...
and steps up to the plate. Let's see if this holds:

Florida Secretary of State Katherine Harris today announced that she intends
to FOLLOW FLORIDA LAW and certify Florida's county election counts at 5:00pm
tomorrow as mandated by state law.

There is no "wiggle room" in the law and NO JUDGE has the authority to order
her to violate the law.

Please email Secretary Harris immediately and thank her for her courage in
this matter. Tell her not to be intimidated by arrogant, power hungry
politicians who are trying to delay the process in violation of the law but
to stick to her guns!

HER EMAIL ADDRESS IS:

kharris@mail.dos.state.fl.us

HER OFFICIAL STATEMENT FOLLOWS:

STATEMENT OF KATHERINE HARRIS, SECRETARY OF STATE

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Monday, November 13, 2000
CONTACT: Ben McKay (850) 414-5502

I am issuing this statement to ensure there are no misunderstandings with
respect to the statutory schedule for completing the presidential election
in Florida. To that end, I met this morning with representatives of the
campaigns of Vice President Al Gore and Governor George Bush, and I
communicated by facsimile transmission with the Supervisors of Elections in
each of Florida's 67 counties.

The electoral process is a balance between
the desire of each individual voter to have his or her intended vote
recorded and the right of the public to a clear, final result within a
reasonable time. It is the duty of the Florida legislature to strike that
balance, and it has done so. In order to serve the interests of individual
voters and the candidates who seek elective office, the law provides for
automatic recounts in extremely close elections, methods for protesting
elections, and procedures for petitioning for, and conducting, manual
recounts.

And in order to effectuate the public's right to clarity and
finality, the law unambiguously states when the process of counting and
recounting the votes cast on election day must end. For this election, that
time is 5 PM, November 14, which is tomorrow.

Section 102.112, FloridaStatutes, provides that the county
canvassing board must certify the county
returns by 5 PM on the 7th day following the general election. The
performance of this duty is mandatory; there are no exceptions provided in
the law. In fact, a $200 a day personal fine is imposed on members of the
county canvassing board for failing to meet this deadline.

In this context, I am very aware that a few counties are
conducting or contemplating additional recounts in the
presidential election. In order to assist them in
continuing their recounts as long as the law allows, I am dispatching
personnel from my office to the offices of the Supervisors of Elections in
every county that does not have a certified return on file in my office at
the close of business today. They will remain in the offices of those
Supervisors of Elections until 5 PM tomorrow in order to be available to
officially receive the certified returns of that county until the last
moment, thus providing the maximum possible time for recounting and
certification.

As previously stated, it is the duty of the county canvassing
board - and the county canvassing board alone - to certify the returns from
that county by 5 PM tomorrow. If the certification is not in the possession
of the Florida Department of State at that time, the law provides that the
votes cast in that county will not be counted in the certification of the
statewide results.

Again, Section 102.112, Florida Statutes, which deals
with the duties of the county canvassing board, provides, "If the returns
are not received by the time specified, such returns may be ignored and the
results on file at that time may be certified by the department." Section
102.111, Florida Statutes, is explicitly mandatory. It provides, "If the
county returns are not received by the department by 5 PM on the 7th day
following an election, all missing counties shall be ignored, and the
results on file shall be certified."

Florida law does not provide any date
for return certifications other than tomorrow at 5 PM, and it does not
provide any penalties for noncompliance other than the fines mentioned above
and the disallowance of the entire uncertified vote of the defaulting
county. Any discretion vested in me by the legislature in this regard is
necessarily limited to circumstances not specifically contemplated by the
legislature in the law. Such unforeseen circumstances might include a
natural disaster such as Hurricane Andrew, where compliance with the law
would be impossible. But a close election, regardless of the identity of the
candidates, is not such a circumstance. The legislature obviously
specifically contemplated close elections; the law provides for automatic
recounts, protests, and manual recounts - and it plainly states when this
process must end. Therefore, I will adhere to the date and penalties that
are provided for Florida law.

With regard to the status of overseas absentee ballots, they
must have been executed as of last Tuesday. They must
bear a foreign postmark as provide in Section 101.62(7), and they must be
received by the Supervisors of Elections by midnight Friday. They are not
required, however, to be postmarked on or prior to last Tuesday.

I will today ask the Supervisors of Elections to make plans with their
canvassing
boards to count and certify the relatively few remaining overseas ballots
Friday night, or by no later than Saturday morning. I will further ask them
to transmit facsimile copies of those certifications to my office by noon
Saturday as permitted by applicable case law. I anticipate that the state
Elections Canvassing Commission, composed of the Secretary of State, the
Commissioner of Agriculture, and the Director of the Division of Elections,
will officially certify the results of the presidential election in Florida
on Saturday afternoon.

In summary, every county must have official
certifications of the voting returns from last Tuesday delivered to the
Florida Department of State by 5 PM tomorrow, or those returns will not be
included in the statewide canvass. It is my expectation that overseas
absentees will be counted and certified by each county canvassing board no
later than Saturday morning. Therefore, I anticipate that the presidential
election in Florida will be officially certified by Saturday afternoon,
barring judicial intervention. No county canvassing board has ever
disenfranchised all the voters of its county by failing to do their legal
duty to certify returns by the date specified in the law. I am confident
that no county canvassing board will do so in this election.

Florida Department of State * The Capitol * Tallahassee, Florida 32399-0250
(850)
414-5500 * Fax (850) 487-2214 * TTY: 850/488-5779 * www.dos.state.fl.us

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