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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 8/13/2005
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

PRITCHO (8/13/05; 23:48:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 134931)
From Gold this Week - -At the Privateer
http://www.the-privateer.com/index.php
SNIP - -
Complacency is based on a SELF ENFORCED ignorance - not a genuine lack of knowledge but a refusal to know. As such it is a brittle state of mind, and in 2005, it has been steadily splintering. That process is now speeding up, fast.

What was, in the US and elsewhere, a quite understandable and rational fear of real foreign enemies in the immediate aftermath of 9/11 is now, not quite four years later, a growing fear in the minds of many of those same people of their own governments. There is nobody left whose mind is capable of reason who is not aware of the fact that the entire rationale for the US invasion and occupation of Iraq was fabricated. There are few people left who are not aware of the design to deceive them.

The last refuge of complacency was the housing bubble. It has now been firmly burst in Australia. In the UK, the most certain indicator that it is about to burst was the decision by the Bank of England to lower official rates last week. And in the US, it is clearly on its last legs as the number of houses for sale (but not selling) is growing fast. On top of that, there has been a sudden and steep dive in US consumer confidence.

Complacency is hard to maintain when one winces every time one pulls into a gas station. It is even harder to maintain when one contemplates a situation where the amount owed on a house is now more than the house is "worth".

On a political level, complacency is being rocked to its core in the US by the single act of the mother of one of the almost 1900 Americans who have now been killed in Iraq. Cindy Sheehan is camping outside President Bush's Crawford Ranch. She wants an answer to the simple question of what exactly is it that her son died for in Iraq. She wants Mr Bush to answer her, face to face. He refuses to do so.

Mrs Sheehan's vigil has attracted worldwide attention. She is being praised by many and villified by many others. What she has forced into the awareness of those who have refused to see by their own choice is a simple and inescapable truth. There is only one answer to her question. Her son died to defend and protect a corrupt political and economic system which is rapidly turning into a tyranny. We don't know whether her son knew this. There is no doubt that Cindy Sheehan knows it.

As this knowledge widens, or to be more precise, as more and more people get off the increasingly painful fence they have been sitting on and finally face what is REALLY happening, the situation will become more and more volatile. This is certain to be the case in the policital realm. It is even more certain to be the case in the economic and financial realm.

If you want a connection between political and economic events, consider the vigil of Mrs Sheehan and the "sudden" gyrations of both commodity and currency markets this week. The vigil in Crawford has placed a political time bomb under the Bush Administration. Her particular action may not set it off, but it has shortened the period before it does go off. The issue she has raised cuts to the heart of the entire situation. It is as difficult to ignore as it is to answer. If the question is not answered by the White House, and there is no chance of an honest answer from that quarter, then it will remain open for each individual to answer for him or herself.

Those who answer it will find that it leads to a host of other questions, each of which will follow the same theme: "What has our government done to our country?" Neither markets, nor finance, nor government policies, nor even politics as usual can stand up to that one. They couldn't in the late stages of and after the fiasco that was Vietnam. They won't this time either.

It is conceivable, though VERY highly unlikely, that the action of Mrs Sheehan (and the inaction of Mr Bush) might galvanise enough outrage amongst her fellow Americans to force the Bush Administration to "blink" at their now obvious plans to invade Iran (and/or Syria) in order to perpetuate their power and re-inforce the now tattered external distraction that is Iraq. But if the Bush Administration does now compound their incalculable folly by taking such an action, it is far more likely that Americans will see it for what it is. It is also far more likely that having done so, they will not be so eager to impose another episode of self-enforced delusion.

In the financial realm, there is no way back from the havoc which has already been wrought by an insanely profligate government and by the brittle complacency of too much self-enforced delusion by too many Americans. This week, the facade slipped and Gold bolted $US 9.00 higher in one day. Gold is now just over $US 10.00 below its bull market highs set way back in December 2004. It will be kept below that $US 456 high as long as the mechanations of the financial system and the political imperatives of the political system can keep it there. We do not think that will be for too much longer.

Modern politics and economics is a cesspool which cannot be drained by a Gold "price", no matter how high that "price" might get as expressed in modern paper currency. The task can only be accomplished when the words of James Madison (see the mid August Privateer - #533 - published on August 14) are heeded and understood: "If tyranny and oppression ever come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy."

How's THAT for being far sighted?



PRITCHO (8/13/05; 23:08:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 134930)
It's NOT about Nuclear Ambitions - - It's the threat to the US$! (What else)
http://www.the-privateer.com/index.php
From the ever insightful Privateer - - LatestIssue(today)

What Price The US Dollar?:

Beginning on March 20, 2006, the Tehran government in Iran plans to begin competing with both the New York NYMEX and London's IPE with respect to international oil trades, using a Euro-based international oil trading mechanism. Acting in parallel and in advance, from Ridayh, Saudi Arabia, camethis from UPI: Saudi Arabia has said it is working to bring back to the Kingdom a total of $US 360 Billion invested abroad in the last 18 months.This started the long end of the US yield curve climbing. It is deadly dangerous to the US Dollar's standing because it is currency displacement.

Currency Displacement:

Currency displacement is an issue which The Privateer has dealt with in its usual style - in advance of approaching but foreseeable events. It has been an item in several past issues.

If, in March 2006, Iran does start its Euro-priced oil exchange - buyers of Iranian oil will, of course, have to offer Euros for the oil. That will be no problem for the Euro currency nations in the EU. It will also add an incentive for those EU nations still outside the Euro to join. But, there is another aspect to this.Europe will then not have to offer either the Euro or any other European national currency for the US Dollar before it can buy oil. This is where the US Dollar dollar becomes
"displaced". It will be displaced from part of the global markets in oil. The US Dollar will also lose a previously assured demand from all those in Europe who had to buy US Dollars before they could buy oil. If nobody in a market wants a currency for purposes of trade - it is displaced. Since the near same quantity of US Dollars are all still in
circulation worldwide,a lesser global demand for them will cause the US Dollar to fall in exchange value.

The problem goes further.Non-US global sellers of oil will have a free choice to offer the oil for sale in the Tehran Oil Exchange.Of course,the oil they offer there will never even have to go to Iran. It will simply be on board a tanker anywhere in the world. But once the contracts are signed,when the oil actually does arrive at its destination the seller of the oil will be paid in Euros.

It goes further still. Once Central Banks around the world become aware of what is going on (they are already aware of what is planned), they will start worrying about the value of their reserves. If these reserves are held mainly in US Dollars and in US Treasury debt, they will start doing lateral shifts of their reserve holdings. They will begin to hold more Euros and EU paper assets than before. That will again displace the US Dollar. When these Central Banks are not to be seen at the next US Treasury refunding,
not only does the US Treasury have a problem placing its debt paper, but so does the Greenspan Federal Reserve! Alan Greenspan's problem then is that he will have to offer the rest of the world a better deal. The only way he can do that is to offer an even higher US rate of interest. But, as earlier explained, even higher US rates of interest are poison, not only to American households, but also to the US Treasury. US consumer debt is rising at a 9.3% annualised pace. US Treasury debt is almost $US 8 TRILLION with budget deficits as far ahead as the eye can see. That combination is deadly dangerous, not only to the US Dollar, but to the US economy and especially to the US claim to being the world's only superpower.

Finally, once this exchange is up and running in a non-US currency and trading in a central global commodity, it is a certainty that many small boutique trading houses will set up shop or have direct links with the Iran Exchange. They will then start trading up a storm, not in oil perhaps but in everything else. All of this trading will not be done in US Dollars,it will be done in Euros.At that point,the US Dollar faces an even greater displacement.It is a short step to the point where in Iran and in many other places, there will be market makers dealing in all the world's major commodities who will be willing to set prices for such commodities in Euros. That will displace the US Dollar further still. The end result of historic
currency displacements has always been the point at which the foreign holders of such currencies make the choice to storm back to the nation which issued the currency to buy whatever they can of real value there, almost regardless of price. That swings the current externally circulating US Dollars back inside the US, adding to the US Dollars. That is a DIRECT INFLATION of money.

Goldilox (8/13/05; 22:51:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 134929)
Israeli involvement on Iranian issues
@ $ Bill,

With some of NeoCon's higher level advisors holding dual US-Israeli citzenship and allegiances, I'm not sure if it's even dsitinguishable whether any particular action is US or Isreali organized. The most that might be determined is which insignia the troops and airships wear into battle.

I've read a lot of hypotheses about Israeli "control" of Congress and NY business, and vice-versa. I wonder if this really matters or is just one more smoke screen?

I do believe there is a real risk of invasion or aerial bombardment of Iran, and if executed, we wll watch oil prices go orbital - perhaps just the agenda that oil controllers want to accomplish to continue their hyperbolic profit growth.

Goldilox (8/13/05; 22:37:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 134928)
Religious Mess
@ $Bill,

I do not disagree totally with your political scenario, but I think "religion" gets a bigger role than it deserves from the media, just a it did in Ireland. People who believe thay are completely repressed will "fight to the death" no matter what their religious persuasion, even those who have none.

From Thermopylae to the current instabilities in Iraq and Palestine, every war in history has featured suicide martyrs of some sort.

In WWII, the Kamikaze pilots got the PR advantage, but the Marines sent a lot of suicide missions into service as well.



Dollar Bill (8/13/05; 22:21:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 134927)
.,.
Pritcho, you see my name at the top of the posts, feel invited to not read them.

Dollar Bill (8/13/05; 22:18:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 134926)
.,.
Smeagol, your link didnt even mention isreal.
I cannot figure out why.

PRITCHO (8/13/05; 22:11:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 134925)
@Dollar Bill - - - - Re your last Post
Bill I seriously advise you to take your medication on a regular basis. Also if you have a friend he would no doubt like to see it not spelt freind.*(Remember i before e except after c)

We have all heard this same rant before -including your ill contained excitement re an Israeli attack on Iran and your comment that Iran wants war. Boring boring dribble.


Goldilox (8/13/05; 22:11:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 134924)
Countdown
Sir Smeagol,

In the smug transferance of manufacturing and programming technology, the "controllers" believed that their experience and network infrastructure left them the upper hand in "service industries".

How short sighted to not understand that service industries are the easiest to transfer, as their only requried resource is human ingenuity.

The Iranian oil bourse challenges the US oil magnets' role as energy middleman for the entire world, and their NYC offices are threatened to become as obsolete as the electronics and computer workers whose jobs moved to India and China.

If backed into the corner, their all too predictable response will be similar to their "final solution" in Iraq, whose CIA propped up ruler chose to bite off more than he could chew politically. Interruption of the Iranian supply at levels similar to Iraq will easily deliver T. Boone Picken's and Matt Simmons' predicted $100+/bbl oil prices.

Maybe with the Asian peninsular nations crippled by the Tsunami Christmas present, the oil admin feels they have the perfect opportunity to wreak havoc on Iran at a point when it's Islamic Dinar partners are crippled by recovery. It will certainly not ease oil prices anytime in the foreseeable future.


Dollar Bill (8/13/05; 21:58:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 134923)
.,.
Smeagol, I think that isreal will manage to find a way to drop a electromagnetic pulse bomb in the new oil bourse complex. If not, the owo will manage the price of the euro to whatever level will make the dollar or owo control still complete. Hence the german french effort to get iran to give up its bomb making efforts. Iran has to be taken out, and it is playing its card perfectly to invite being taken out. Not that "taken out" means things will be tidy.
It is a big dang religious mess that is one more evidence that nations around the world have to wake up to find the proper seperation of church and state. The US definately is not the model of what that should look like.
And it is moving more in the direction of closer church and state. What a mess. But, I suppose we are not here on earth to stand around repeating the obvious. We are meant to be a big drama show, and we certainly are.
One gold qoute can be; Big drama looming? Buy gold.
Transitioning from one financial global struture to another? Buy gold. Nothing looks like it is founded on solid basis? Buy gold. Lots of lying happening? Buy gold.
ect.

Dollar Bill (8/13/05; 21:43:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 134922)
.,.
I just dont know if israel will attack in sept or in 6 months. The iraq constitution will certainly give the us a real break so that the ok can come for the attack on iran.
I expect that when the world economy tumbles badly enough, that we will find ourselves being welcomed into the ==new new deal==.
The new new deal, is the social security program for ....the world.
Not like the new deal, which was for the US only.
It no longer matters does it? I mean, if the economy takes a real hit. The big boys will save us with the new new deal.
As chirac said; the new communism.
Between now and then, I expect gold to not be a store of value, but a real investment ride up. Say it isnt a bubble, but I expect the one world order guys to eventually crush the price so they can buy back the gold from the regular citizens at cheap rates eventually because we all shall find ourselves as "associates" in the one world order new new deal socialism/communism. How else will saudi arabia get food in 25 years? 46 years? 67 years? 459 years?
Since, in my opinion, the owo is here, it fits in with the plans to have the regular joe take a beating and stop consuming so much oil.
All the financial factors that went into getting us past the obstacles, like defeating the EU, and the Russia block, have worked out to the point where I do believe that greenspan and whomever has been working towards this owo, now know that those factors are no longer the factors they care about, and now only owo factors are important, and regular joe american, can suffer the results of his indebtedness and it wont harm the owo.
I think the 454 billion dollar road bill is like one of the last big pig feasts the us govt is going to be able to host.
The days of deficiets will wind down as the other countries that have signed on to the owo will want the new new deal to start to kick in.
Which means, we will get speeches about "shareing" the money, and the pain. THe us still ends up being able to host the tag sales that contain the vast bulk of the worlds products made in the last number of years, but, we also have made a dang ugly bet on globalization that will find suburban guys wondering what they were thinking.
As we have built ourselves way out on a limb, as the owo tree becomes the new structure, vast personal financial bets placed by regular americans, will come to an ugly end.
I really think this could happen quickly.
Al greenspan said something recently about the houseing bubble that I cant quote, but it was something like, oh well, things are about to change in a big way.
A freind asked me what he should do with 50000 dollars, I said but gold.
Iran wants the war. They know better than me that israel has promised to bomb them. They are religious guys! One nation that is bound church and state, israel, and one nation that is bound church and state iran. Or course! they want to fight to the death. That is the inevitable result of religious men with power. Oil will skyrocket, venezuala may hold off oil production as a support for iran protest move, the us will use its national reserve for the winter, if isreal attacks in sept, or for driving in 6 months when israel attacks. Whatever, I suspect that will lead to financial collapse enough to give us the new new deal.
Sensible discussions about gold ownership as part of a mixed bag of investments, I think, should be thrown out the window because we are on the verge of the owo.
They say what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. I have not bothered to analyze that but taking that, I say that a collapse will not kill the owo, but will make it stronger. However, the regular people will feel like thier lifestyles have been killed, or more accurately, changed not to thier liking.
And they will be right. Anyway, I dont know how this sounds, I dont mean to seem like the all seeing eye, but this is how I see it. I think I/we should marvel at the present moment. It is about to change in a fundamental way I think.

Smeagol (8/13/05; 21:23:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 134921)
Countdown to Spring 2006... or War?
http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/17450
snip:

"Despite the complete absence of coverage from the five U.S. corporate media conglomerates, these foreign news stories suggest one of the Federal Reserve's nightmares may begin to unfold in the spring of 2006, when it appears that international buyers will have a choice of buying a barrel of oil for $60 dollars on the NYMEX and IPE - or purchase a barrel of oil for €45 - €50 euros via the Iranian Bourse. This assumes the euro maintains its current 20-25% appreciated value relative to the dollar – and assumes that some sort of US "intervention" is not launched against Iran. The upcoming bourse will introduce petrodollar versus petroeuro currency hedging, and fundamentally new dynamics to the biggest market in the world - global oil and gas trades. In essence, the U.S. will no longer be able to effortlessly expand credit via U.S. Treasury bills, and the dollar's demand/liquidity value will fall."

S.


The Invisible Hand (8/13/05; 20:13:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 134920)
the objective store of wealth
Here's what Harry Browne has to say about the subject (in his book "The Economic time Bomb – How You Can Profit From the Emerging Crises", New York: St. Martin's Press, 1989, p. 174):
Although gold's primary purpose is to provide protection during a period of inflation, it is also a SECURITY OF LAST RESORT (emphasis by The Invisible Hand) – the one asset that isn't owed to you, but represents value in your hand. gold is real money – portable, independent, divisible, durable, and recognizable. It survives when everything else fails.
Don't confuse real gold with any investment that's only indirectly related to gold – such as a share of a gold-mining stock. Gold stocks are "stocks". Like other stocks, their values are affected by factors – such as company management, strikes, government policies, political unrest, and the like – that have nothing to do with US of A inflation or the price of gold. Gold stocks can go down when gold itself is rising.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2095-1733856,00.html
THE OIL BUBBLE WILL BURST and interest rates fall...
SNIP
That does not mean oil prices are going to collapse. It does mean they are likely to return gradually to earth — which probably means a sustainable $40 a barrel — when geopolitical worries subside. That, in turn, will expose the fact that Britain's higher inflation is largely an oil phenomenon, enabling the MPC to reduce rates further. And what if oil prices were to hit $100 a barrel? The Bank would need to cut in those circumstances, too, to prevent an already slow-growing economy sliding into recession. Either way, despite the Bank's cautious message last week, this month's rate cut will not be the last.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/main.jhtml?xml=/money/2005/08/14/ccbuf14.xml&menuId=242&sSheet=/money/2005/08/14/ixcoms.html
BUFFETT vs. SPITZER
Regulatory probes of General Re are an embarrassment for Warren Buffett, seen as the world's greatest investor and a celebrated critic of others' foibles. Grant Ringshaw asks if his reputation will suffer.

Smeagol (8/13/05; 20:04:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 134919)
All that is Gold doesn't glitter?

Ssir Goldilox, "Does paper (or bytes repesenting paper) work better as modern money due to the upside down nature of "debt" and "credit"?"

O yess... at least until until 'the system' takes a header... and sso far there have been no fiat winners in the long term. Sss... the problem is not really the paper or digits, but the nasstier aspect of Man's tendency to twist something that would be very useful to benefit one over the other.

"What banker would want to carry gold loans from individual customers when there is no reasonable way to use anything like "fractional reserve" to cover them?" Better to cover in FIAT that can be multiplied by progressive loan techniques. Something DEFINITELY stinks here!"

Ah, the true import and implication of loaning Gold becomes apparent when one musst give up the Metal itsself, eh? ha ha!

The evil fractional reserve practice exploits Man's greedy-lazy side to the utmosst - as long as "we gets ours" and gets out before the end (gain for nothing done), or before somebody spills the beans and the game sstops, then it's not our problem, it's someone else's, eh? Tempting, O sso very tempting! Such a perfect crime!

Unfortunately the Justice that is done to those who initiate fiat schemes pales into insignificance in comparison to the magnitude of desstruction that ultimately results from ssame!

We uses Fiat for the instant, short-term "debt-discharges", and "Gold-capacitors" to sstore "Wealth-charge". Jusst our (rapidly devaluing) .02 worth.

-----

We read the link you possted... we are sskeptical, not of the possibility of monatomic Gold, but with the claims... and we wonders if anyone "outside" has ever quantitatively analyzed a sample of that "white powder of Gold" - with a mass spectrometer, for instance.


The possibility of Gold-atoms being "configured" to "neutral-atom" behavior (a 'noble gas' indeed!) sstatus is fasscinating.

We found a link to Hudson's British ORME patent at http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/patents/ukpatent.htm
...we wanted to see for ourselfs. But if he patented this in 1988-89, the patents are close to expiry. Maybe this will be what ssaves the bullion banks from disasster? (tongue firmly in cheek)

~8-)

S.

"One doesn't buy gold because he or she believes absolutely that the system "will" fail. One buys gold simply because he or she believes it "might" fail. That is sufficient." - MK

Now there's a quote worth keeping, thank you Ssir MK.

MK (8/13/05; 19:40:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 134918)
Demosthenes
I appreciate the point you make about not buying gold simply because CNN highlights it or herds the public in that direction because suddenly they see it as the next bubble. First and foremost, gold is a defensive position -- taken on because one realizes that the international monetary system could go awry. Gold is not a bubblephenoma. It should not be viewed in that context.

Moreover, when an individual purchases gold, it should not be viewed as a negative vote "against" the dollar and the United States. It is a positive vote "for" prudent management of one's assets. I have worked with literally hundreds, if not thousands of gold owners (one way or another) over my more than three decades in this business, and I cannot recall a single instance where the purchaser was rooting for a failure of the dollar. In almost every instance, the investor simply wanted to protect what he or she had worked so hard to attain.

Most real money approaches gold with a certain amount of humility. One doesn't buy gold because he or she believes absolutely that the system "will" fail. One buys gold simply because he or she believes it "might" fail. That is sufficient. There is nothing wrong with working in one's personal financial defense and none of us should let the press and the Wall Street crowd lead us to believe there's something wrong with it.

In the end, gold may be the most patriotic of investments simply because it very well could form the capital pool from which we would extract a recovery should the "awful event" occur. Certainly, that is exactly what the Japanese and Chinese government have in mind when they encourage their citizens to own gold. Let's not under-estimate the importance of this publicly proclaimed Asian gold policy.

As the summer doldrums fade and gold breaks the $440 mark, I have some new observations and analysis which I will share with you in time. Demosthenes, your post gave me an opportunity to indulge in one of the most important. I will have more to discuss over time. . . . .

Welcome to all the new posters. It's great to see you here.

Onward, my friends.

Demosthenes (8/13/05; 19:06:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 134917)
Gold makes CNN
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/12/markets/gold.reut/index.htm
I apologize if anybody has posted this already, I didn't see it. I saw it on the front page of the CNN site earlier.

Now I figure average Joe investor might want a piece of this gold thing... after all, CNN reports on it. Only downside I see is that the article does sort of play up the "volatility" of gold.

I sincerely hope though that nobody makes a rash decision on their finances based on what they see on CNN, like the "gotta get me some of 'dem tech stocks/real estate" attitude. Something like gold should only be bought after some careful research, which thanks to sites like this is easier. It would be a shame to have somebody turned off on gold if they didn't understand how buying gold works and they got duped by somebody unscrupulous.

Topaz (8/13/05; 18:43:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 134916)
RHIC-Accelerator site.
http://www.bnl.gov/rhic/
Now if RHIC could ramp up the velocity of FRN's, maybe they too could be morphed into something else ...of VALUE!

heavy mettle (8/13/05; 18:37:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 134915)
Zecharia Sitchen

Hello Goldilox,

You wrote:

"Zecharia Sitchen suggests that early humans were the mining slaves for the Anunnaki gold accumulation, which helped fuel the Earthly demand as humans became more independent - interesting hypothesis."

I read that book as well and yes, very interesting. When you carry this thinking further out, if true, then the slaves were more than likely bread for their ability and willingness to work hard. Unfortunately American slave owners were not immune to this sort of behavior. Further if all slaves were of the same make, having that in common would more than likely unite them against their captors. So a little mixing and matching, you get different workers suited to different jobs thus divided and ruling themselves, eventually. I've often wondered where the diverse ethnic groups came from. It could have been from the mines after the easy gold was extracted or some evolution blah, blah. Could be the whites moved to the northern latitudes to escape the heat and sun and not the other way round.

Now stretching it a bit, have things really changed all that much in the above scenario? The slaves are still working for the Kings, Nobel's, Prime ministers, Presidents and Priests. Especially with the onslaught of fiat money, the hamster on the treadmill still works hard for the man. And once again the gold is being mined and placed into the hands of the same powers; the other side to those anonymous bank sales. Maybe a case of the same result but different methods employed.

Food for thought to chew on or spit out.

Have a good day.


mdgc (8/13/05; 18:28:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 134914)
Chinese basket of currencies
http://www.asianewsnet.net/level3_template1.php?l3sec=2&news_id=43886&key_word=
I have been away for a couple of days and may be posting some thing that has been psoted earlier. Apologies if so.

Snip

Dominant amongst a raft of currencies are the US dollar, the euro, the yen and South Korea's won.


The Singapore dollar, pound sterling, the Malaysian ringgit, the Russian rouble, the Australian dollar, the Thai baht and the Canadian dollar are also considered in the calculation, Zhou said.



Topaz (8/13/05; 18:27:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 134913)
G'lox ..Ye too will become as Gods!
http://www.awakening-healing.com/A-HNewsLetters/2004/Hurricane_Frances_904.htm
First thing, you'd better go check on Clink!, I think his accelerator just came to a standstill ;-)

If memory serves, Hudson took his leave from this mortal coil a couple of years ago.
I've linked a Florida/Hurricane/Bush/Gore page from your previous link ...curious eh?

We are also seeing an increase in seismic activity as the Moon transits through Half ..."again".

The RHIC site focuses on Sub-Atomic Gold and have recently achieved some stellar results ...I'll pull the link up and post it.
They might divulge some stuff on MAGold if asked.

mikal (8/13/05; 18:13:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 134912)
Gold reflections (in your mirrors)
More P's (Peace) of Gold:
Protecting families from swooping kites,
Pointing like sextants guide sailor's sights.
Passing to progeny of freedom loving folk,
Primary instincts it dare not revoke.
Preserving proceeds won hard through pain,
Partitioning true wealth from ill-gotten gain.
Plainly reminiscent of many a gilded time,
Purchasing gold with blood, sweat and grime.
Painted with radiance of solar paternity,
Placed first on the earth for all eternity.
Portioned for production of nanotech precision,
Propels high-tech industry and prevents collision.
Prohibits pretense and pro-forma plunder,
Priced for an instant far beneath under.

Clink! (8/13/05; 17:25:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 134911)
Ah, Progress 2
Of course, there are always drawbacks with technology. For instance, take my computer-in-the-pool situation. The battery capacity isn't enough for a really good soak, and the red warning light comes on to tell me that I might get cut off at any mome

Clink! (8/13/05; 17:01:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 134910)
Ah, Progress !!
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/sciencenow/3209/03-canc-nf.html
I can remember, when I worked as a modem designer, that the epitome of chic was that the modem would allow you to work on a laptop beside the pool. How 20th century ! Now I can read my favorite forum -IN- the pool ! I just hope an excess of Miller Light doesn't cause me to overturn my floater.

Medical uses of gold you ask, Sir G ? How about a couple of links about cancer. The first concerns the replacement of gold/phosphorous for platinum in a variety of cancer drugs.
http://www.nus.edu.sg/corporate/research/gallery/research6.htm

The other one is the gold plating of nanoshells (it's possible that this has already been reported here - I can't remember where I heard it first). The basic idea is that cancer cells are (because of their faster metabolism ?) less tolerant of higher temperatures than normal ones. We're not talking much here - only a few degrees over normal. Nanoshells coated in gold are injected into the tumor, and a means is used - the link mentions IR laser, but I've also seen electromagnetic induction - to heat them in a very localized fashion. Normal cells survive, cancer cells don't (hopefully).

Neither application is going to cause a run on the Comex, but it's nice to know there are other uses of (one of) our favorite metal(s) than just keeping the rascal bankers at bay !

C!

Goldilox (8/13/05; 15:33:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 134909)
Why Gold?
@ Liberty Head,

"The tricky part is to survive the journey."

Well spoken, indeed.

-G

Liberty Head (8/13/05; 15:29:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 134908)
gv - Why Gold?

Any item or service with a demand can function as a store of wealth. The ideal store of wealth would also be secure from theft. The dollar is a poor choice as a store of wealth as its value is easily stolen through taxation and inflation. The ideal store of wealth would be invisible to the insatiable thieves that lurk through the databases of our wealth, and plunder on a global scale with impunity. The grandiose vermin with flag pins on their lapels have proven to be the greatest threat to confiscate our wealth, our homes, our blood, our children.
You can own gold and nobody but yourself needs to know how much you own or where you keep it. Gold is wealth that flies below the Imperial radar. Gold is very portable. It can easily be converted to most any currency in most countries.
As more folks wise up to the grand illusion, the more valuable Gold will become.
The tricky part is to survive the journey.

Best Wishes


Goldilox (8/13/05; 14:54:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 134907)
Questionses
http://www.awakening-healing.com/White%20Powder%20Primer.htm
Sir Smeagol,

Reading your treatise to the newbie's questions, I came up with a couple of ideas to run by you.

His question: "I understand gold not being "money" in the modern sense of the word. From what I see, "money" nowadays is primarily a medium of exchange and definitely not a store of value,
obviously."

begs the following:

Does paper (or bytes repesenting paper) work better as modern money due to the upside down nature of "debt" and "credit"? What banker would want to carry gold loans from individual customers when there is no reasonable way to use anything like "fractional reserve" to cover them? Better to cover in FIAT that can be multiplied by progressive loan techniques. Something DEFINITELY stinks here!

Your quote: "It is compatible with the human body."

- I've been trying to gather info on monatomic gold and its potential for physiological benefit. Some is slowly coming to light, but not as quickly as silver's antibiotic properties.

Zecharia Sitchen suggests that early humans were the mining slaves for the Anunnaki gold accumulation, which helped fuel the Earthly demand as humans became more independent - interesting hypothesis.

I've included a link to another I have just begun reading - no opinion just yet.

Toodle - oo

-Goldilox

Ned (8/13/05; 13:38:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 134906)
What does "Peak Oil" + "Baby-Boomer" = ?
Get Gold Now !!!!!!

Have a golden weekend1

Ned (8/13/05; 13:37:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 134905)
Holy mackeral ! Chevron endorses "end of easy oil"
http://www.willyoujoinus.com/advertising/print/
Click on "download a pdf of this ad" and enlarge to read the endorsement by Chevron CEO David O'Reilly.

Wow!

Smeagol (8/13/05; 12:22:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 134904)
Gold = Wealth >>> Time

We welcomes you to the Table Round, Ssirs Gv and 24karat. (hey even lets the likes of us in here! (cackle))

"What makes gold an objective store of wealth? What exactly is it about the metal that defines it as an objective store of value? Is it because throughout history, mankind has generally gravitated toward the metal as a fungible divisible unit of measure, medium of exchange, and by proxy a store of "wealth"."

Ssss...yess... Hisstory does it, Hisstory proves It. The physical properties of elemental Precious are unsurpassed as a CANDIDATE for keeping "wealth" in stasis through the longesst possible Time. Other things can "sstore" wealth, yess... but Precious has proven the BESST way to do this.

"I understand gold not being "money" in the modern sense of the word. From what I see, "money" nowadays is primarily a medium of exchange and definitely not a store of value,
obviously."

"Modern" being worthless paper notes with nothing behind them but the fading likelihood through Time that you will be able to pass them to some other person in exchange for
something that has objective value, eh? "Modern" meaning those notes attach to a (temporary) political sysstem, not (eternal) Nature. But if the tricksy paper lie propagates long, then there may SEEM to be little INSTANT difference between that and Gold.

"If gold is defined as being a "yardstick", or rather, a vehicle to serve as a "checks and balances" against the whims ofthe paper-printers, then cool, if that actually works out in practice."

O, it does... this is why governments and banks keep It as a lasst resort, and while they will have their play-days, the Precious will always win in the end, O yess...
Why do they want us to use their limitless paper while they keeps Precious for themselves? Something sstinks, there...

"The people who bought gold at $800 aren't believing the store-of-value argument, though."

Over Time, they will, precious... you watch! (grin) We live in ssuch an impatient world.

"I am not sure how the metal itself is a store of value. I could be wrong, but I thought "wealth" meant "store of value". I'm just trying to understand how the physical metal represents a store of value."

It represents wealth because people trusst that It will do that... jusst like paper notes! Unlike paper notes, though, the rare Precious cannot be mass-produced at a whim, and thus can never be masstered, only temporarily influenced (price controls, taxes, panics)... and even that influence depends on people trussting in falsehoods, not truth. When It is left alone to do It's job, It's "wealth constant" is extremely stable and trussty over generations.

"If I get paid for digging a ditch, I have expended X amount of energy in the act of work (either physical energy or mental energy). Then, I am compensated for my work output. Compensated in what?"

Anything you agree to take for your effortses... you may want wood for a shelter or fire, or a nice fissh to eat if you are hungry, more so than Precious, precious... but if not, Precious is a besst way to preserve and transfer your wealth to ssomeone ELSE through Time (and disstance)... because It is a besst thing they can use to do the ssame thing, through Time, and sso on.

"I definitely want my compensation to preserve over time, I do not wish to see it inflate away. But why is it that Gold will help me preserve those calories of physical or mental
output? Why is Gold the "objective store of value" ? Why not just use some other item as the means for a "checks and balances" against paper-printing? Why gold?"

Many things converge, to make Gold an ideal wealth-sstore:

It is very rare.
It is a single element.
It does not corrode.
It is compatible with the human body.
It is extremely malleable and divisible.
It is beautiful.
It may be easily formed into shapes of standard weight and purity.

Other things can be used to store Wealth... diamonds, gems, iron, silver, canned food, land, trees, paper... the lisst is endless... Gold happens to be at the top of the list, for
nothing else preserves/passes Wealth as conveniently through Time with as little loss as does the Precious. Gold, Wealth and Time go hand in hand. Humans don't live long enough nowadays to experience that lesson... perhaps if they could remember the fiat disasters of the Passt and how much their ancesstors losst in them, then maybe we would not fall for ssuch now...

"I am not sure there is -any- true Objective Store Of Value."

Ai, you are right! You can't take value with you to the Beyond. And if somebody doesn't want your Precious (or paper) in trade, you will have to work out something else. Gold is only a servant, and a very good one... as Copper has come to be a preferred electricity conductor over physical distances, so Gold is the preferred "value-conductor" over Time. It waits patiently to flawlessly perform that function jusst like the wires in your house wait for you to flip the sswitches to let the current flow. Biding Time, It can easily outlasst you... eventually transferring the leftover fruits of your labor to your heirs.


Thank you for your Thought-insspiring Quesstions!

S.

"Storm's a comin'. Get you goldside." - Captain Goldheart

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (8/13/05; 11:58:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 134903)
A world of gold at your fingertips...
http://www.usagold.com/buy-gold-coins.html





Ned (8/13/05; 11:31:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 134902)
Wicked baby-boomer demographics stuff
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_05/to081205.html
Follow the link to the 'McKinsey & Company' link, follow to the 'US:Boom or Bust' pdf.

Article a little slow until page 15. Graph there shows lowest fertility rate for women at 2.0 children in 1937 (depicting fewest number of present retiree's aged approximate 60-65) while highest fertility rate in 1957 at 3.8 (aka the 'baby-boomers'), dissaving rate(s) begin to plummet now, 'baby-boomers' begin to move through peak saving years having peked in 2000. This graph on pg. 18.

"No easy answers.....to counterbalance demographic pressure...." pg. 29

"This slowdown would reduce corporate earnings and government tax revenues.....will be grappling with fast-rising health care and pension costs." pg.28/29

Goldilox (8/13/05; 11:11:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 134901)
Welcome Aboard!
Welcome to the forum, 24carat.

Not so many "Einsteins" here. We just read a lot, try to figure a few thing out, and post a snip from the source readings - perhaps accompanied by a question or comment.

Feel free to test the water. The worst that can happen is some ne'er do well flames your post, but a little thick skin goes a long way. The forum rules (mostly well adhered to) eschew name calling and other typical online misbehavior, as well as advertising or hawking any wares by other than the host.

One more caviat. Although we are currently enjoying an open forum at the pleasure of our host, straying too far from related issues may elicit some electronic eye-rolling or an occasional delete and/or timeout issued by the sitemaster (aka TownCrier) or Lord of the Castle (MK)- at their discretion, of course . . .

I look forward to your observations!


Gandalf the White (8/13/05; 11:03:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 134900)
WELCOME Sir 24Karat
Thanks for joining in on the discussion !
Now, don't be a stranger.
BTW, where is "The Stranger" ?
<;-)

24karat (8/13/05; 09:53:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 134899)
@gv Humble question for the forum/ mess. #134895
Great question gv. I am just surprised that the forum has not jumped on this question like a bunch of horny monkeys !

To me, it seems that a store of value can be anything that is in vogue at the time. We've seen real estate being perceived as a store of value. We've seen the same with the stock market and 25 years ago, it was gold. In each case investors bid up the prices to unsustainable levels.

Goldbugs like myself believe that the metal is currently deeply UNDERVALUED. What we know about gold is that it has been an accepted form of exchange for at least 5000 years and that it has some intrisic value due to the metals' various uses. These are advantages over many other assets.

Cash on the other hand has only paper as its intrinsic value. Those who argue that "cash is king" would say that cash also has the ability to earn interest.

Your point that those poor saps that bought gold @ $800/oz may not think the metal was a good store of wealth but as we've seen over and over again, nearly anything can see out of control price swings.


On a separate note, I wanted to introduce myself as a new poster to this forum. I've been a goldbug for about 3 years and I've been religiously reading this forum for about two months. The contributors here are a sharp bunch. Each day I look forward to reading the posts whenever I get a chance to log on. Just don't expect to receive any words of wisdom from me as I am "no theat to Einstein" when it comes to the workings of the financial markets.


Topaz (8/13/05; 07:57:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 134898)
gv
You need to be crystal clear in your mind what "store-of-value" represents and how it is measured.

Of course to measure "value" in FRN's is an oxymoron, as Fiat currency is simply an inflating denominator of Debt ie: your Dollar will return you (say) .025 hr's labour equiv "today" and (say) .010 hr's labour in 5 Yr's.
The ground is far too shaky to base our measurement of Value in Currency gv.

We are offered "interest" to compensate for this erosion in purchasing power and, after all and sundry have had a bite, the consensus is "saving-money" is for the Mugs.

So we are left to ponder "what" to save as a store of value that isn't Money ...or has NO monetary stigma attached...
...I have to say, Gold is far and away the BEST of many candidates that fit the Bill.
An Oz of Au is, was and will be just that!
Even astute Central Banks are again coming to this conclusion gv ...who are we to argue.

This "Current" situation, as has those before it, will run it's course and we may see our Gold valued higher OR lower in Fiat terms but, in the SoV wash-up, what REALLY matters.

An Oz ..is an Oz ..is an Oz.

Caradoc (8/13/05; 02:44:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 134897)
Sinclair and $456
http://www.jsmineset.com/
Assuming a smashdown from whatever level to $445 by Friday, August 26 (so that all those futures contracts go sour), I recently pondered whether we'd reach $456 before the smashdown or during the bounce after the smashdown. As of a few hours ago, Jim Sinclair has gone a step further than I did:
***text follows***
A close above $456.60 shifts the odds sharply toward a run in gold versus December delivery in the $475-$485 range.

This is another way of saying that the resistance at $456.60 is significant. If this level is to come under a test it will do so in the next week and a half.

I have withheld exact point and exact time because this information was being used to hurt you by COT. It became evident time after time after time. The reason I will be reinstating specifics is not an ego thing but rather because for gold to make that run it will require a perceived loss of control by the Fed and the US treasury over their monetary friends around the world who assist in doctoring every item to keep the financial social order under their control. Such an event would render COT powerless.

The exact point is $456.60 and the exact timing is with one and a half weeks from this writing. That is the window of opportunity for the 2005 Big Kahuna in gold.
***end of text***

By "one and a half weeks from this writing" it's not likely that he's counting non-market days like Saturday and Sunday which would have 10 1/2 calendar days from yesterday evening work out to Tuesday, 23 August, with plenty of time for further rise and still have smashdown by the following Friday. More likely, he's looking at five days as a "week" of trading so that "one and a half weeks" comes at the middle of the trading day on Wednesday the 24th.

Since I function in the realm of paper to get the greenies that pay for the real thing, my preference would be to get the smashdown over with before hitting 456 so that we get a clean (and easily tradeable) rise thereafter. It makes my head hurt to think about hitting 456 at mid-day on either the 23rd or 24th. How far to ride the tiger? When to jump off? The only easy part would be buying back in after the smashdown.

Even hitting $456 early next week doesn't help the trader. True, gold takes off --apparently toward the moon -- with spot taking out half or more of the distance to $500 within days (Sinclair mentions $480), but from that level it becomes possible that TPTB will skip the smashdown and go with "cash only" settlement of all those futures contracts.

The only sure thing is that converting loose greenies into yellow metal at prices available this weekend is a good move.

Caradoc



Caradoc (8/13/05; 01:25:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 134896)
GV's query
If "store of value" means simply means something that retains value, a large garage full of copper pipe would store the same value as a small pouch of gold coins. Unfortunately, the "spread" between wholesale and retail is brutal, it fills up your garage, and it's awkward to liquidate.

Go with gold!

Caradoc



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