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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/13/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

TEX (9/13/01; 23:54:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61443)
Our Host featured in the Post
Ah hmmmmm......rhyme not intended but our forum host Mr. K had his photograph and numerous quotes regarding gold in today's business section of The Denver Post! Nice job Mr. K!

site steward (9/13/01; 23:36:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61442)
Who said this?
"Its not hard to imagine even the faithful longs wanting to sell out of their gold paper for the real thing -- if only the COMEX trading floor had been open."

R.

Netking (9/13/01; 23:32:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61441)
The paper trade
GATA says it all:
". . . Only fools are taking the long side of a paper trade in gold now, and because of this, eventually there may be no more paper trades in gold at all, just physical trades. In which case gold again may be recognized as scarce and precious, something quite different than paper. . . "
------------------------------------------------------------
The definition of misery: To watch physical gold & silver race to previously unreached heights only to see your paper holding burn. - Netking

Chris Powell (9/13/01; 23:26:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61440)
Be lightning for the land we love
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/882
New dispatch from GATA.


To subscribe to GATA's dispatches
by email and get them immediately so
you don't have to go look for them,
send an email to:

gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com

ORO (9/13/01; 22:49:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61439)
Israel is not quite what you think
Though far from being a free country, Israel is very much a social democracy in the European tradition. There is no constitution to speak of and no limit to what a majority can do. Because of that, Israel is divided into groups which vote for their particular narrow interest party, of which there are so many that the parliament does not contain a single party with more than 15% of the parliament.

Thus the agendas of each party are clear cut and the parties oriented towards joining a coalition which will provide their particular group with positions of power and with particular agendas. The easiest group to recruit is the semi-fundumentalist religious center, who demand funds for the various Rabbis and special exemptions and benefits in return for political support.

The Israeli restriction on the Judaism of incoming immigrants is directly copied from the German, French, and other European laws, which do not permit citizenship to non-"Germans" etc., though they might be born in Germany or even third generation (at least this was the case going a few years back). These restrictions have popular support within Israel as they do in Europe.

Israeli Arabs have been treated very well when they are compared to any Arab population on earth: education levels are high, affluence is not uncommon, social services are provided on an equal basis (but for military service based benefits), and most of them are quite friendly to the rest of the people and the government. They are not trusted to go to war against their second and third cousins unless they volunteer, which they rarely do. Is that a surprise?

As to economic and personal freedoms, the first has been loosened substantially, and the latter - particularly freedom of expression - have been extended. Some parties run on platforms for the extension of these rights, even with a libertarian like party (actually a few of them).


Is the country as free as the US? No. As free as Germany or France? Yes, but not quite.

One reason for the ongoing process of extending freedoms is the propensity of Israelis to move abroad when their voices are not heard and when they are taxed too heavily, or otherwise restricted. Over one quarter of the citizenry lives outside the country.

As to the Mossad, I suggest you read some of the more serious spy books and learn of their limits. They like their imposing persona, but their organization is nowhere near as powerful as it implies, and it is often thwarted by double dealing by European and US "inteligence" agencies who routinely transfer information to the other side and spend far more on spying against Israel and local Jews than they do against all of the Arab and Islamic world put together. Obviously this will change now, but we can never know by how much.



Black Blade (9/13/01; 22:28:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61438)
GLOBAL ECONOMY-Guardians of global economy calm markets
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010913/sp219504_8.html

Snippit:

LONDON, Sept 13 (Reuters) - Guardians of the global economy stabilised shaky financial markets and shored up business and consumer confidence on Thursday to prevent worldwide recession from becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy. Although the European Central Bank kept its key interest rates unchanged, it pumped in fresh money to avoid a cash crunch in banking systems unsettled by Tuesday's terror attacks on the United States.

Underlining their concern that European banks could face difficulties, the ECB and the Federal Reserve agreed to a swap arrangement, under which the ECB would be able to draw up to $50 billion, while the Federal Reserve Bank of New York will get an equivalent amount of deposits in euros. Markets remained broadly stable on Thursday with very thin trading volumes, calmed by injections of some $120 billion of cash by central banks so markets could continue to function.

Black Blade: Sheer desperation! Emergency cash to Euro banks to head off a "Run on the Banks" when Wall Street ends the "Bank Holiday." In a word - "GRIM"


auspec (9/13/01; 22:27:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61437)
Sierra Madre
Thanks for the info on Mossad, most interesting!

sector (9/13/01; 22:27:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61436)
Iwo Jima -- 2001
Have others noticed the similarities between scenes at the base of the World Trade Center rubble and the images of decades ago, at the summit of Mount Suribachi? The exhausted fire fighters struggling to save downed comrades and buried innocents under an American flag surrounded by surrealistic, twisted steel and dust. The exhausted, mud covered marines raising the flag while shelling continued at the summit.

The remains of the WTC has become a place into which one must earn an entrance. The ground is now as sacred as any in America.

Mark Halpern has said "...we have been attacked by an alien civilization bent on our destruction" . Maybe so -- only time will tell.

What is clear is that apparently normal humans were transformed into automata, infiltrated our country, took control of our technology and used it to severely damage our nation. It will therefore not be sufficient to simply remove the planners and financiers of this Jihad. The supporting institutions, cultural mechanisms, geopolitical links and the enemy's domain of residence must as well be neutralized.

The experience of Colin Powell here is reassuring. Can there be anyone with a greater appreciation of the requirements for finding an enemy who has geography and in this case geology on their sides?

The calm of Rumsfeld suggests a response which will shock our friends and terrorize our enemies. Shock and terror are the things most needed here. As a caller to a popular radio talk show said on Tuesday:

"America must be willing to show our sworn enemies that we are prepared to take their last man."

Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 22:18:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61435)
Options as derivatives
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=180680
Some of the folderol behind options gambling, as Harry quotes from the OCC prospectus. Translated: "You can win the bet, but just try to collect." As you read on, you quickly see that the "liquidity of markets" is eventually just another case for the courts and lawyers to hash out. "So, sue me!" (Favorite New York expression.)

Or as auspec just capsulized it: "Derivatives cannot stand the unexpected, especially on a SUSTAINED basis."

Derivatives were already vulnerable to the "crowded trade", as everyone tried to follow the same hedging formulas, leading to simultaneous attempts to exit. And THEN, the part left out of the equations: when the exits (markets) were closed, the casino raided, and the patrons hauled away in wagons (or ambulances).

I guess the first is when the trades crash the markets, the second is when the markets crash the trades?

It's like the case of Ptolemaic astronomy, where I suppose they had their equations all worked out, showing beautifully how the Sun went 'round the Earth. Just one problem... Ah, but those equations! They were beautiful! Good thing they didn't try to land anyone on the physical Moon.

I'm tired, so if this doesn't make much sense, I apologize. I just don't see what they can do with derivatives when such a Bubble pops. Even if they net out the positions, why would an insolvent institution be interested in surrendering any more of its remaining cash except under court order?

Will the Fed buy up the swaps too? I remember Rothbard saying that by 1929, the Fed was financing (buying) bankers' acceptances for trade goods that were not only not in transit, or on the docks, but had not even been manufactured yet...

Black Blade (9/13/01; 22:15:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61434)
RE: Sierra Madre

Of course Israel is not a Democracy. There are no Democracies as far as I know. Not even the US is a Democracy. Even George Dubya and Bubba Clinton couldn't understand such a simple concept. Hmmm...

Cheers!

- Black Blade

Solomon Weaver (9/13/01; 22:14:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 61433)
Poor Egypt?
Max #61429

I spent some tourist time in Egypt one Christmas (took advantage of bargain airfares after a spate of bus bombings in Cairo)and we had the very great fortune to have a tourguide all week who was studying Egyptology.

What I learned and will never forget...the Egyptians have made massive progress in the numbers of people who get modern educations, safe water, reasonable medical treatment etc....yet the population has grown so fast that the number of poor are more too.

There are some countries where just living seems brave....we Americans don't have enough fingers and toes to even start counting our blessings.

Poor old Solomon

Black Blade (9/13/01; 22:09:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61432)
US Corp Bonds-Worst day since 1998 Russian default
http://ca.us.biz.yahoo.com/rf/010913/n13335108_1.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK, Sept 13 (Reuters) - U.S. corporate bonds on Thursday morning suffered through what could become their worst day since 1998, during the fallout from the Russian debt default, in the wake of Tuesday's attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon.

Black Blade: I suggest that Wall Street may extend the equities "Bank Holiday" a lot longer on fears of a full blown Market Crash.


Sierra Madre (9/13/01; 22:05:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61431)
Israel is a "Democracy"?

Freedom in Israel? Hmmmm...try and get a ham sandwich in Jerusalem.

With all due respect, it is necessary to point out that full citizenship in Israel is restricted to Jews exclusively. There are Arab-Israelis but they are definitely second-class citizens with quite restricted rights.

Israel should properly be classed as a Theocracy. The very existence of Israel is based on a need to fulfill religious prophecy, or what else?

There are absolutely no non-Jews in Mossad. The US Security and Intelligence agencies cannot discriminate on the basis of religious affiliation, and so Jews are found throughout these agencies, as well as throughout ALL Western security and intelligence agencies; that includes ALL the Western Hemisphere countries; ALL European coutnries; and Mossad agencies have infiltrated ALL Islamic movements, so the whole Middle East is transparent to Mossad.

Mossad knows about most everybody else - I can't speak of China and Japan, which have pretty closed societies - but NO ONE knows about Mossad. Knowledge is power. So Mossad is quite probably the No. 1 Intelligence Agency in the World, bar none.

Israel can hardly be classed as a "Western Democracy"!

It is a religious state; nothing similar to it in the "West".

There is no State in the "West" where citizenship is restricted to a religious affiliation - Catholic, Protestant, or what have you.

Now, I am just stating facts, to put the record straight.

Please, no invective! This is serious discussion, not a place for name calling. I anticipate hostility, naturally.

Sierra

Black Blade (9/13/01; 22:04:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61430)
BOJ official: public funds needed for some banks
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010913/tau025425_1.html

Snippit:

NIIGATA, Japan, Sept 13 (Reuters) - Bank of Japan Policy Board member Toshio Miki said on Thursday public fund injections should be considered for banks that need more help to weather damages from massive non-performing loans and falling share prices.

Black Blade: I'd say so! Japanese banks are rumored to be insolvent and now face an IMF audit.


Max Rabbitz (9/13/01; 21:59:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61429)
The Sound of Silence
I had a long conversation with my Egyptian friend Ali tonight. With respect to Israel and the Palestinians he says war is inevitable....not over religion or race.....but water. I think Black Blade pointed this out earlier. Populations have increased and the water has not. The climate itself maybe getting drier. Ali says the Israeli's have restricted the wells that may be drilled as there is limited water in the aquifers and they want it for their growing population. To get one bath a week is above average. In short, he says there is no room for the Palestinians on the West Bank, or anywhere. There are population and water problems in Syria and Jordan also. Egypt relies on the Nile for almost all water and has an exploding population. It has threatened Ethiopia with war if it builds a damn on the Nile. What's the solution? Perhaps only war, pestilence, famine and death. How sad for humanity and what is left of our natural world.

Interesting how I got no slick comments from people this week about my recommendations to buy gold. The subject only brought silence.

auspec (9/13/01; 21:48:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 61428)
Odds and Ends
{Posting frenzy}
What are the odds that the Risk Waters Group Congress would be in 'session' when this plane hits the tower? What can this incredible timing be attributed to?

Fate/Providence
Dumbluck {for the terrorists}
Intelligence coordination well beyond anything suspected

I'll rule out the intelligence answer out of hand. Thoughts?



Black Blade (9/13/01; 21:46:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61427)
"Bone Pile" Grows
http://www.msnbc.com/news/628273.asp?0na=2323280


Snippit:

THE TOTAL NUMBER of laid-off workers drawing unemployment benefits continued to climb, hitting almost 3.35 million - levels not seen in nearly a decade, since the country was struggling to emerge from the last recession. Analysts say this week's terrorist attacks are certain to cascade into problems for the U.S. and world economies at a time when consumers, whose confidence was shaky at best with concerns about rising unemployment, were the main force keeping the economy afloat. The nation's unemployment rate topped 4.9 percent in August.

Many economists are predicting that the Federal Reserve will answer with further cuts in U.S. short-term interest rates, possibly before their next meeting Oct. 2.

Black Blade: The FED will have no choice - they must cut rates by 375 bp, and even that won't help. Meanwhile the "Bone Pile" grows as more layoffs are inevitable as the Recession deepens. Need to get portfolio insurance.


auspec (9/13/01; 21:34:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61426)
TED Spread
On 2nd Thought
If I understand the TED Spread, it is a flight of mostly foreign capital to safety, which has USUALLY been US Treasuries. Maybe the US Treasuries are not now considered the 'safest', I better just stick with my 'Golden Spread'.
If anyone follows the TEd Spread it would be great to see how it 'deciphers' current financial chaos.

auspec (9/13/01; 21:27:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61425)
sector!
Sounds like the derivatives crew now have an even more leveraged problem, well beyond BB's "Grim". The magnitude of this catastrophe has been apparent from the very start, especially considering the saying that 'nothing is official until it is officially denied'.
1. GWB2 was very clear in stating very early that 'our financial markets will recover' or something to that effect. This is a clear demonstration that a nerve center had been struck, not just a couple buildings.
2. Fed liquidity.
3. G7 liquidity and support. Shows the global extent and importance of what has happened. Precision and harmonization will have to be perfect.

This is serious folks, we have yet to fully find out what else went down with the WTC Towers. The media is coordinated for total unification, and we will get the full onslaught this weekend sans the regular sports agenda. Eddy George and his US counterparts are peering into 'the abyss' again, and this one is the Momma of the last one. I have asked/posted a couple times on different sites: what exactly is the total significance of the WTC, seeing how it has been targeted twice? I guess that question is slowly being answered/unveiled.
Derivatives cannot stand the unexpected, especially on a SUSTAINED basis. CPR will be administered Monday {or whenever}, but this condition is both acute AND chronic, a sustained problem is inevitable, imvvvvho.
Sector, what do you see as far as the various derivatives and how they are currently stressed with this tragedy? Interest rates, Gold, US$, BONDS{!}, etc.? You know there is no fooling the bond vigilantes, wouldn't this have been a time to have on a TED Spread? How{e} many derivative classes are now likely blowing in the wrong direction?
I make no apologies for some of this speculation, as it is nothing more than a search for truth.
May the PPT do their job and do it well.
auspec

Netking (9/13/01; 21:19:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61424)
Gulf War-style anti-terror coalition to include Israel
http://www.jpost.com/Editions/2001/09/14/News/News.34835.html
Snippets:
- The difference between the international anti-terror coalition that US President George W. Bush is building and the alliance his father, former president George Bush, formed during the Gulf War is that this time, Israel will be a full partner, a senior Western diplomat told The Jerusalem Post yesterday.

- The source said the emerging picture is that Israel's inclusion in a coalition against terror may allow it to participate in attacks against Iraq, as well as Iran and Afghanistan, but Israel will be subject to limitations . . . "

Tam (9/13/01; 20:56:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 61423)
Another view of Manhattan you probably haven't seen, from space
http://www.321gold.com/911/wtc_nasa.html
September 11, 2001 This still image, taken from video sent from the International Space Station on Tuesday'shows a smoke plume rising from the Manhattan area of New York City.

sector (9/13/01; 20:18:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 61422)
A Major Derivatives Conference on the 106th Floor
The Risk Waters Group Congress was in session on the 106th floor at the time of the attack. The wife of an attendee was in cell phone contact with her husband on the 106th floor. None of the other 227 participants have been heard from according to a Risk Waters Group web press release. They publish Risk and the Journal Risk.

The derivatives community may have suffered a grievous loss.

Black Blade (9/13/01; 19:54:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61421)
Obstacles for Big Board Trade Resumption
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010913/business_attack_markets_resumption_dc_2.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stock markets on Thursday patched themselves together to reopen for business on Monday, after what will be a four-day hiatus following a deadly air attack that decimated the heart of the financial world and paralyzed trading. Wall Street this week has grappled with stunned brokerage operations, crippled communications and obstructed access to lower Manhattan. The New York Stock Exchange, the world's largest stock market, is housed about three blocks south-east of the mountains of rubble that used to be the nucleus of the World Trade Center.

The markets' reopening after four days -- the longest shut-down since the start of World War I -- is contingent upon successful completion of a battery of tests to be undertaken by the New York Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq stock market on Saturday, exchange officials explained at a news conference in Manhattan on Thursday.

Black Blade: No doubt! "Grim"

So what's the point of these consecutive posts on different parts of the US economy? Simple - if Wall Street opens on Monday (which I seriously doubt), then we will likely see the markets crash. Again, there is absolutely no positive news before the WTC terrorism and absolutely none after. All these posts are just a taste of what's to come. I heard some dolt on CNBC this morning say that the bright side is that now there are fewer employees (deaths!) and the rebuilding will be a boon for the economy. Gimme a Break! Many backroom operations of the NY trading rooms were destroyed and many traders killed. I doubt that there is anything positive to help the economy and everything to suggest a major Crash! Load up on PM portfolio insurance if you can. Looks like the boys and girls at the Castle are currently in full operation. "Golden Lifeboats" are the order of the day if you wish to ride out the stormy seas from the approaching Economic Storm.


Black Blade (9/13/01; 19:41:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61420)
Insurance to Largely Cover Loss of WTC
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010913/business_attack_portauthority_insurance__1.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The New York-New Jersey agency that owns the World Trade Center destroyed in Tuesday's air attack on Thursday said insurance will substantially cover the economic loss it will suffer.

Black Blade: No doubt! "Grim"


Black Blade (09/13/01; 19:36:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61419)
Networks Lose Millions on Attack Coverage
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010913/business_attack_media_dc_2.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. television networks stand to lose hundreds of millions of dollars from their decision to broadcast commercial-free news coverage of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon, advertising executives said on Thursday. Although the networks say they have no regrets about their decision, citing their responsibility to keep the public informed, the moves could exacerbate a slumping advertising market that has already taken a toll on most media companies.

Black Blade: No doubt! "Grim"


USAGOLD (09/13/01; 19:33:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61418)
Wall Street Gold. . . .
09/13 13:23
Trade Center Vaults May Contain $650 Million in Gold, Silver
By Erik Schatzker


New York, Sept. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Vaults that may contain as much as $650 million of gold and silver held by the New York Mercantile Exchange are buried under tons of rubble in the basement of the World Trade Center, the Globe and Mail reported.

The vaults are owned by the Comex division of the exchange, where metals dealers such as Bank of Nova Scotia's ScotiaMocatta and Bank of New York Co. clear trades, the paper said. The World Trade Center was destroyed in terrorist attacks on Tuesday.

Last week, Comex reported that it held 792,170 ounces of gold in inventory with a value of about $220 million and 102 million ounces of silver worth $430 million. Some of the silver may be stored at other locations, the Globe reported, citing unidentified sources.

Among the other dealers to clear trades through Comex are Chase Manhattan Bank NA, a unit of J.P. Morgan Chase & Co.; and HSBC Holdings Plc's Hongkong & Shanghai Banking Corp., the paper said, citing sources.

MK Comment: I would like our clientele to know that we stopped using Scotia Mocatta/NY for storage and delivery several months ago. Some of you who haven't ordered in a while may not know that. We do not hold gold for our clients at that facility. We moved our operations to Delaware as most of our clientele already know. I am informed that all my colleagues at Scotia Mocatta's offices in New York got out in one piece, thank God. I can only hope that that fine organization will be up and operational in the near future. And I am certain it will be. I also heard from other Wall Street friends today and all is as well as can be expected under these extraordinary circumstances. So far so good, though I know there are so many others who have begun the grieving process. As operants in the gold market, we are all only people trying to do our jobs and dealing with the gold market as it is presented to us. May God bless all our friends and associates in New York. It was so good to hear your voices today. . . . . . .

Black Blade (09/13/01; 19:32:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61417)
Attack Spawns Uncertain Outlook for Retailers
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010913/business_attack_retail_outlook_dc_2.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Most U.S. retailers, already weakened by a sputtering U.S. economy, could be bracing for another fall-off in consumer spending in light of the recent attacks on two major U.S. cities. Americans were watching 24-hour news coverage of the World Trade Center and Pentagon tragedies and wondering if or when the country would respond to these attacks.

Black Blade: No doubt! "Grim"


Black Blade (09/13/01; 19:28:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61416)
Study: Attack to Deepen Hotel Downturn
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010913/business_attack_hotels_dc_2.html

Snippit:

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Using the Gulf War as a model, a leading hotel data firm forecast on Thursday that this week's air attacks in New York City and Washington, D.C., will make the ongoing contraction in demand for U.S. hotel rooms almost three times as severe as it would have been otherwise.

Black Blade: No doubt! "Grim"


Interstate (09/13/01; 19:28:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 61415)
Excuse for 911 Day
Historians are not even sure of the year Mohammed was born, much less the day and month. The generally accepted year was 570 A.D.

But what do I know? Only what my history books tell me and they have been known to be wrong.


Black Blade (09/13/01; 19:25:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 61414)
Firms Issue Profit Warnings After Attacks
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010913/business_attack_markets_warnings_dc_2.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. companies have begun to issue earnings warnings after the attacks on the World Trade Center and Pentagon, the first signs of the wider economic toll of the disaster. Although the warnings were a trickle on Wednesday and Thursday, investors said they expected them to become a flood.

Black Blade" No doubt! "Grim"


Black Blade (09/13/01; 19:21:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61413)
Airlines Face Record Losses After Attacks
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010913/business_attack_airlines_dc_2.html

Snippit:

LONDON/CHICAGO (Reuters) - The world's airline industry warned on Thursday it faced record losses in 2001 following this week's devastating terror attacks in the United States, and one analyst said some U.S. carriers may even go bankrupt. Reduced demand as people avoid air travel and likely higher security and jet fuel costs will add to the woes of an industry already struggling with a downturn in business travel due to the global economic slowdown.

Black Blade: No doubt!


Black Blade (09/13/01; 19:14:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 61412)
Asia Turns Red!
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Asia is sinking again. A lot of potential downside.

Interesting sidenote: Chris Matthews on CNBC said that the US has taps all embassy phonelines. I am sure that a lot of foriegn governments are happy about that little revelation.

auspec (09/13/01; 18:39:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61411)
Tonite's Midas
For years it has been my opinion to get long gold and the gold shares because even though the gold price was being held down, some event could come out of nowhere that would overpower The Gold Cartel's ability to continue their scam.

This most likely could be it. The cabal is going to have their hands full with all kinds of financial market problems in the weeks to come. The central banks will do what they can in the short term to hold down the price of gold, but they are running out of physical gold to pull it off and demand for physical gold from investors around the world is about to go through the roof. END



AUtistic (09/13/01; 18:20:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61410)
past,present,future
No one should jest, when ANOTHER quotes dates, etc., especially, when it pertains to OLD religious societies!
Just check out Rick Mayberry & the Early Warning Report.
(The thousand Year War etc., etc.)
Here's a scary? thought! --David Lewis' "Pyramid" book states that this "society"? will end on precisly 9-17-01!!!!!!!! OUCH?!?!?!?
David Icke also mentions many times the importance, to religious zelotes, of certain dates, & #'s.

admin (09/13/01; 18:05:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61409)
A necessary reminder
http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/tools/guideandsignup.html
As time has allowed, a cursory review of the past few days of posts reveals that even as emotions have been running high, some inappropriate comments (e.g., derogatory comments directed at race or religion) have found a footing upon this forum that are unwelcome, and that otherwise responsible adults in hindsight would likely regret having offered.

Go ahead and feel emotionally churned, or have a beer or two, but please refrain from acting or posting when your better judgment toward your fellow human beings (all being unique *individuals*) has been impaired.

Here is a cautionary reminder, excerpted from the USAGOLD posting guidelines--

PROHIBITIONS:
1. Personal attacks; slanderous or derogatory remarks; off-color jokes; lewd and/or lascivious comments; ethnic, religious and racial slurs

BR549 (09/13/01; 17:56:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61408)
The Central Banks load up liquidity-

The European Central Bank +$63BB
BoJ +$17BB
Fed $38BB + $70BB swap for Euro's + +$50BB buying securities from US Banks
US Senate day before 911 Day $–1.2BB in DOD budget
Now Congress rumored to pledge +$40BB blank check to fight terrorism.

Forget about those theories of deflation.

Maybe hyperinflation?

BR549


site steward (09/13/01; 17:33:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61407)
"The gold is safe."
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010913/n13430635_1.html
That, according to a Fed spokesman. It is notable, and not surprising, that at this time of financial uncertainty, the various news media outlets have today given extra attention to the presence (and security) of gold assets in the area.

This article repeats the Fed's efforts to maintain settlement-liquidity within the banking system, restating yesterday's extraordinary addition of $38.25 billion to banking reserves through overnight repurchase agreements arranged by the trading desk through open market operations.

Further on this point, the Fed's NY trading operations have in fact been temporarily moved from its normal Manhattan locale (two blocks from the WTC) to another Fed facility in East Rutherford, New Jersey. A Fed spokesman gives the assurance, "Our operations are fully functional out of this facility."

And how! As briefly mentioned earlier today, the Fed injected another massive sum of dollars into the reserves of the nation's banking system. All collateral offered to the central bank with bids on funds at or above the FOMC target (3.5%) was indiscriminately accepted. This operation in overnight repurchase agreements totaled an incredible 70.2 billion dollars.

Seeing this level of resolve by the central bank in a capacity approaching that of "lender of last resort", I wonder how many banks tomorrow, as we head into the weekend, will be silly enough to bid on funds at levels which are marginally above the target rate. That is to say, they will have learned from the experience of the past two days that there seems to be no need to offer 4% when the Fed will provide funds for ALL requests bidding the FOMC target rate.

All I can say is, extraordinary times certainly DO bring out extraordinary measures. However, such efforts in the interest of providing short-term appearances of stability will not change the course of the long term as the "big picture" continues to unfold.

Gold continues to trade around the clock and around the world. By contrast, the U.S. stock markets will be closed again tomorrow. Do you know what your stocks and mutual funds are worth now? Monday may come too soon for many people.

Buy your gold during this temporary period of "relative calm" being artificially supported by the central banks. The $50 billion swap line arranged between the Fed and ECB is further evidence of this extraordinary, yet temporary, official effort.

(By the way Mr. Gresham, the swap arrangement, if activated, has the potential (non)effect of postponing officially "undesired" market effects that might otherwise show themselves immediately at this volitile time of uncertainty. That is to say, it may allow the inevitable effect to be "smoothed" out over an extended period of market time.)

Randy

auspec (09/13/01; 17:20:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61406)
MarkeTalk/Murray/Sept. 11
I had heard that Sept. 11 was the date of the Camp David Accord, but have not personally verified this. Was it in 1973? There was also word out that a plane was heading for Camp David.
An atrocity to celebratge the birth of Mohammed would make as much sense as Hitler's use of the Church cover in his reign of terror.

Netking (9/13/01; 16:55:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61405)
MarkeTalk
Sir MarkeTalk, I've found there's quite a bit of stuff going around on the net at the moment & one obviously needs to have wisdom with what we read (I for one have been caught out over the last week). I respect however your view on things, based on your reasearch including Fibonacci ratios, Gann timing & reports etc, do you see any significance in the September 18th? - Cheers Murray

Cavan Man (9/13/01; 16:54:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61404)
KarenSue
Right.



KarenSue (9/13/01; 16:48:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61403)
MarkeTalk #: 61402)
You are smoking some bad stuff, period.

only me.

KS

MarkeTalk (9/13/01; 16:30:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61402)
Significance of September 11th
As most of you already know, my posts usually refer to fundamental events coupled with technical analysis in the form of specific market turning points whether they relate to sunspot activity, lunar phases, solar eclipses, seasonal factors, support and resistance lines, Fibonacci ratios, etc. So when the tragedy occurred on Tuesday, September 11th, I was unable to correlate the tragedy to any of my known technical factors.

While listening to the Art Bell talk radio show last night, a caller mentioned why September 11th was so important to these Arab terrorists. According to her research, it is the date of Mohammed's birthday.

Broken Tee (9/13/01; 16:17:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61401)
Sorry dropped a letter
That should read," with their economies in such sad shape how can they stop a recession in the U.S."

Broken Tee (9/13/01; 16:12:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61400)
(No Subject)
G7 Countries
I believe I heard on the news last night a brief statement," The other G7 countries have promised to offer financial support to ensure the bombing of the World Trade Center will not cause a recession in the US." Did anyone else catch it also?
My question: How with their own economies in such sad shape can the stop a recession in the U.S.?


Max Rabbitz (9/13/01; 16:08:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 61399)
ORO
Yes the Saudi's give aid to the Palestinians, who have and are deeply involved in terrorism. It was stated by an Egyptian friend of mine that the reason the latest peace efforts failed is that the Saudi's did not agree. They and many others do not want a Jewish State, perhaps for the threat democracy posses to their power. As oil becomes more precious the wealth will flow to the Arabians and Iraqi's and others in the region. Money to supply the terror will only grow. The destruction of the State of Israel will not stop it. Those opposed to freedom of choice want to destroy all that is Western. The internet has made possible the coalition of terrorist forces and we now face a multi-headed medusa of coordinated evil. We cannot take on all heads at once. First lets discover, infiltrate and destroy those networks on our shore. Eventually, if our "friends" continue to try to terrorize us we have other options. Russia, Europe, and China share with us the desire for vast oil resources and have similar security concerns. We do not have to fight amongst ourselves for what all socialists believe are really world resouces that belong to us all. Perhaps on this we can compromise with our Socialist friends.



ORO (9/13/01; 15:23:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61398)
AEL, Max R - no such thing as "they"
The actual powers involved are in part at least the Arabian governments, who are allowing this to go on. While they are worried about retaliation of the fake Islamic leaders and new "palestinians" in the case of them striking at them, the governments need them to intimidate and keep busy democratic regimes that pose a far greater threat to them by providing an example to their people of the benefits of economic and personal freedom. These freedoms are shared enemies of the terrorist networks and the Arabian governments. During the whole of the terrorist intensive period from the 70s through the 80s, the PLO managed to survive and retain its hold over the splintery palestinian terrorist movement only because it had gulf oil money to offer them. Money they got in order to eliminate Israel - the sole democracy in the area - and to terrorize the West.



Netking (9/13/01; 15:21:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61397)
"Prepare for Biological, Chemical Attacks" - General Singlaub
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/13/93136.shtml
Snippet:
Gen. Jack Singlaub, the former U.S. supreme commander of all U.S. forces in Korea, told NewsMax that additional, more significant attacks against the U.S. could take place in the next several weeks. He warned that an escalation of terror – which might follow such an elaborate scheme as we have already seen unfold – might include the use of chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction.

General Singlaub said that he shared the views of NewsMax national security consultant, Col. Stanislav Lunev, who has also issued a similar warning. "This is my view," he said, "There is a possibility of a biological or chemical attack."

The view that additional attacks are likely is shared by the U.S. government.

Fox News reported last evening that "lawmakers were told in classified briefings that additional attacks are 'possible if not probable' and they should not assume a false sense of security . . . "

Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 15:04:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61396)
Oro
Just running out now, thanks for response and good to see you here today with rich content for us, and for me to read later.

Henri (9/13/01; 14:48:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61395)
Thank you ORO
I feel better now. Not angry anymore. Thanks for your timely assistance

ORO (9/13/01; 14:22:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61394)
Henri - nope
War damages would be covered only after a war had started (declared by a state), and the legal definition of war will not let them off in court - nor would any jury or appeals judge. Insurance companies were warned against attempting to wiggle out by State regulators and are pretty much preparing for a full payout (a small part of the reason for dollar illiquidity in Europe). Re-insurance companies in Europe are unloading portfolios and borrowing money to cover the claims.



Henri (9/13/01; 14:02:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 61393)
Follow-up
All my loved ones that were unaccounted for are safe and sound.

As for me...I may be in shock, but I do not find anger within me. If there was some sovereign govt behind these acts of insanity, perhaps I would feel differently. Since we do not know whom to be angry at, other than the 18 alleged dead culprits in the plane wreckages, this emotion will only sap our strength and resolve to recover.

I have decided to build something in response to the destructive event. Perhaps if we were all to build something and build it to demonstrate that we can build faster than our enemies can destroy, it would be energy usefully spent. Heck all that building might even boost the consumer spending numbers although I have a difficult time seeing how building is consumption.

"...and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us..."

As there is no one to vent our frustrations upon, perhaps we should just offer the faceless dead forgiveness for their acts and move on. Perhaps in so doing we may attain forgiveness for our own acts which had incited these madmen.

I suspect that many will object to my posting this view right now but so be it, That is how I feel now and admittedly, I have not lost anyone that I know or was dear to me. I may feel differently after the shock wears off, so allow me to change my mind later if a face appears behind this monstrous set of events.

One thing that does anger me is the declaration that it was an act of war rather than the faceless act of aggression that it was. This declaration, here and abroad was probably only to let the insurance companies off the hook to pay for all this destruction. I haven't seen the small print in my life insurance policy, but my homeowner's insurance clearly indicates that acts of war negate the contract. I know that these companies have significant holdings of stock and bond paper, but this is mismanagement of funds if you can't pay out against the risk you have incurred and taken sufficient premium to cover. Perhaps such a company should not be in business. I guess its who you know and not what you know that makes the world go round. I for one do not feel that the US taxpayer should be the only one to pony up here...again.

ORO (9/13/01; 13:53:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61392)
Mr Gresham - ECB liquidity
ECB needs for dollar liquidity are related to positions of EMU banks and their customers who must clear dollar commitments that are obviously beyond assets and balances currently available. This is a direct result of the EMU, which has made inter-emu contracting in euro instead of dollars the current market preference. New EU debt is now in euro rather than $, thereby reducing the supply of dollar denominated assets within EMU, while leaving behind the full demand for dollars to repay previously contracted debt. Europe's dollar demand/supply balance is therefore in dire straits, as supply is only coming from exports to the US/world, while demand remains as it was.

The ECB should have expected this, as ANOTHER seems to. The introduction of the euro created a transition to euro debt contracts both in Europe and around the world, thereby creating a fresh supply of euro denominated assets without a pre-existing demand. This swamped any possible supply effect of the $800 billion of overall cross border currency reserves of private corporations and governments in the EMU, which became redundant. The end result was a massive dollar deficit forming within Europe and the world as euro introduction had approached going into 1999. Due to the ECB's euro price inflation, they kept short interest rates high, and the debt markets largely shot back into dollar contracting in 2000 while the euro share in new debt issuance in the ex-EMU markets moved down to a "natural" level of under 1/4, and heading back towards 1/8.

The thing to remember is that the euro debt base outside Europe is still miniscule because of the ECB's (justified) inflationary fears. The mirror image, is the dollar deficit in Europe, which has brought many there to sell real assets for dollars, even down to antique furniture from the chateaus and townhouses of Paris. They have also sold exports at artificially reduced prices (through the drop in euro exchange values) leading to a drop in unemployment to below the 9% level, where heavy labor regulation and language constraints (which limit effective labor supply)kick in to raise wages and eliminate profit margins. This eliminated fresh investment and brought capacity utilization into the 90% range, where price inflationary pressures start to come in locally, as they also came in from abroad, through imports at higher prices.

The Iraqi move to have oil priced in euro helped absorb a one-time 20 bil of euro, which was next to nothing because oil is simply not that big a chunk of world trade.


In short, they made their bed by deciding to "go it alone" in making a new pure fiat debt money, and must lay in it. As my old "gold bubble" post explained, the gold asset connection is completely irrelevant because ECB gold assets are not available to the euro holder for redemption (not at a par value, nor any other value).

Another item of some interest is that EU based investors routinely underperform US counterparts outside Europe, and have a preference for moving their assets and themselves into US, Asian, and "tax-haven" nations, where lower tax rates and a more pro-business culture raise returns on investment and reduce political risk relative to Europe's, which is still the highest risk area for property owners in the developed world. The underperformance of some 0.5% annually, is not the result of lower investment accuity, but because of EU investor's preference for possession of assets outside the EU and the EMU, where they are safer from direct or indirect confiscation. Thus they are willing to take assets producing a lower return. The less socialist governments of Italy and Austria, are (I hope) an indication of the future in France and Germany. Just the promise of lower taxes and less regulation in these economically small countries has started capital moving back into Europe. German and French banks (particularly the latter) are thus pressed to settle investment flows into the competing jurisdictions within Europe, thus lowering their own liquidity. Since the weakest link sets the liquidity requirement in the EMU, the ECB must provide liquidity to everyone, making for euro inflation with a parallel squeeze on banks in higher tax and regulation countries. Having failed in their attempts to politically ostracize Austria and others others intending to compete with the two central countries, the latter must liberate their people to compete or see the rest of Europe outgrow them in the next the decade, while liquidity crises decimate their banks and uncompetitive regulatory and tax environments cause them to export their industries (and people) to the more lax and cheaper jurisdictions.



As to some comments about the Klintoonian practice of appointment of political "yes men" into the FBI, CIA, and NSA causing this horrible fiasco, I can agree, but must add that all of these agencies are motivated to fail, and fail spectacularly, because after each failure they enjoy a huge growth of budgets, authority, and staff. The correct response to the current mess is to quietly lopp off the whole structure of the "insecurity" agencies so that they start competing for results rather than budgets, through competition on a "need" basis; i.e. on the basis of bigger failures. Preferably, CIA and FBI operations should be split and privatized and made available to the separate states and the Federal government as paid private services for the states and security services for airlines (or port authorities), finance and whatever industries know themselves to be targets of attack.

Furthermore, it should be obvious that the main failure is that of FAA anti private self defense policy and DOJ centered "anti-discrimination" policy which prevented airlines from practicing surveilance and selective travel restriction of suspects fitting particular profiles, and the "no weapons" FAA policy which prevented the passengers from defending themselves with knives (which don't present a danger to the aircraft). The lack of weapons in the hands of the passengers made it easy to overcome 60 to 80 people with 3 to 5 knife armed terrorists.

The current proposals for Federal agents in airports and armed army personnel disguised on flights are extremely dangerous precedents for extending Federal power. No justification for any of these steps exists. We should not let down our guard and get used to the presence of Federal thugs around us. Their current mild, reasuring, and helpful presence can just as easily become a threat to our freedom. Press your congressmen to vote against these programs or at the very least put a close expiration date on their authorizations and restrict their command affiliations to be entirely within local jurisdiction's legal authority and command structures. We can not allow the Federal government further presence within state and local security operations.





Netking (9/13/01; 13:38:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61391)
Japan restates gloom and sees continuity of deterioration
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1541000/1541323.stm
Snippet:
The Japanese government has restated its gloomy outlook for the country's economy, as figures revealed the country's all-important export trade has slumped.

The quarterly economic report, published by the Cabinet Office and prepared before this week's terrorist attack on New York and Washington, paints a bleak picture and warns that the global slowdown means more pain ahead.

"The economy continues to deteriorate," the report said, in words almost unchanged from the last survey three months ago.

"The outlook presents worrisome factors, such as a further slowdown in the global economy and the high level of the inventories-to-shipments ratio. . . ."

Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 13:30:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 61390)
Randy
Just skimming the surface of what others point to... we may end up "involuntarily retired" from any of several lines of work we're accustomed to doing, if things go on. But I doubt you'll be ahead of me in that line...

Michael and other PM dealers have to ponder what their eventual roles might be in a fiat currency meltdown. I consider them courageous-in-advance for being available to us now.

As a financial advisor, I can't help trying to steer people toward understanding what is happening to them, and ducking the worst of it. But there is such an incredible gap between the true unreported movements, and the crap they are fed, I really don't know where to begin.

We're just a "bunch of crazies" to them, until one day we're not, and there's not much of a way I can see to deal with that kind of role reversal ahead, except appreciate my friends, and get out in the sunshine ;)

site steward (9/13/01; 13:22:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61389)
"$70 billion is the figure now..."
Mr. Gresham,

if you keep this up, then I may be able to toy with the idea of full retirement.

Thank you!

R.

Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 13:08:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61388)
Mr Moto on repos
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=180626
"Nearly all of the roughly twenty repo brokers -- not broker-dealer firms, but repo brokers -- were located in the World Trade Center... "

"Doubt they will open until reasonably sure of functionality. "

$70 billion is the figure now...

Max Rabbitz (09/13/01; 12:53:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 61387)
"Coup"
Also, note the Red Star on the album cover. I have read news reports out of the Middle East within the last couple of months of links formed between activist communist groups opposed to world trade policies (IMF,World Bank) and the PLO. These groups were participants in the protests of the Israeli takeover of Orient House.

The National Review has a good cover story this month on the communist's terror tactics and the support they get in the West. It's called "Evil Empire." I fear we are in for a very long hard struggle. A time for faith that evil will not prevail.



uponroof (09/13/01; 12:31:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61386)
Gold Buried Under WTC

The COMEX and FED vaults are located directly under (COMEX) and very close (FED) to the collapsed towers. Here are reports on them both.....


(COMEX)
Fortune in Bullion Buried in Rubble


By LEN ZEHR, ALLAN ROBINSON AND ANDREW WILLIS
Thursday, September 13, 2001 – Print Edition, Page B2


Buried under tons of rubble in the basement of New York's World Trade Center is a king's ransom in gold and silver.

The bullion is stored in underground vaults owned by Comex, a division of the New York Mercantile Exchange, where five big metals players, including ScotiaMocatta, the metals trading arm of Bank of Nova Scotia,clear their trades.

"We can't get at it," said a source familiar with the recovery effort, adding the bank is worried about the situation and reluctant to discuss it. Digging up the treasure is expected to take weeks as the search continues for victims of the terrorist attacks.

Scotiabank spokeswoman Pam Agnew said eight employees of ScotiaMocatta were able to get out of Building No. 4 at the devastated office complex in lower Manhattan; there are 250 more employees in a nearby tower.

Last Monday, Comex reported that it held 792,170 ounces of gold in inventory with a value of about $220-million (U.S.).

It also held more than 102 million ounces of silver, worth $430-million. Sources said the silver reserves probably are kept at several other locations in the area.

Among other major metals dealers to clear their trades through Comex are Chase Manhattan Bank NA, Hongkong and Shanghai Banking Corp. Ltd. and Bank of New York'sources said.
******

(FED)

Gold Depositories Buried Beneath Trade Center Rubble
By Stewart Stogel
CNSNews.com Correspondent
September 12, 2001

New York (CNSNews.com) - As New Yorkers try to recover from the attack on the World Trade Center, financial markets have yet to feel the full impact of the terrorist action.

Far beneath the shattered buildings, screaming ambulances and dazed New Yorkers on the streets of Manhattan are two of the world's largest gold depositories.

One belongs to the US Federal Reserve Bank; another to a group of financial institutions.

The Fed's gold reserve is housed 100 ft. beneath its headquarters, only blocks from the World Trade Center, whose twin towers collapsed into mammoth heaps of rubble after two hijacked jetliners were crashed into the buildings.

The Fed boasts that its gold depository spans the length of two football fields and contains more gold than any other vault on earth.

Its deposits are believed to surpass the value of the legendary Fort Knox gold reserves in the mid-1980s.

While the Fed declines to release the total value of gold on deposit, it is unofficially estimated at more than $25 billion. But the gold stored in that facility does not belong to the U.S.; it's owned by foreign nations, including Saudi Arabia and Kuwait.

At the World Trade Center itself is another, smaller gold storage facility owned by a group of commercial banks.

When Islamic radicals bombed the World Trade Center in 1993, the New York Police Department and FBI at one point thought that the attack might have been a raid on the gold depository.

The explosion eight years ago was close to the vault, which withstood the explosion. It's not known how much gold was kept in the World Trade Center vaults in 1993, but it's believed as much as $1 billion in Kuwaiti gold eight years ago.

It's also believed that the amount gold currently buried beneath the debris of the World Trade Center today far exceeds the 1993 levels. Kuwaiti officials in New York declined to discuss the matter.
END
********

Also,

From the Bear Forum:

---------------paste---------------------------------
SEC to place restrictions on short selling

Posted By: Money Heaven
Date: Wednesday, 12 September 2001, at 7:05 p.m.


I very rarely watch CNBS, but I just caught SEC Chairman
Harvey Pitt saying that they're looking into placing
further restrictions on short sellers to 'prevent the
markets getting away from investors' (very close to that
wording). He also said at the same time they would seek to
reduce restrictions on a corporation's ability to
repurchase shares, allowing buybacks at any time during the
day.

This disaster has given them the green light to completely
lock down the market. It has also given the green light to
central banks to engage in a massive global reflation, much
like what was done in advance of the Y2K hoax. Perversely,
this crisis has given them cover to do things that they
would not have otherwise been able to do. They've proven
themselves to be very opportunistic and self-serving in the
past.
--------------end of paste--------------------------

Hummmmm....

Something funny goin on with Pitt and the SEC. Yesterday he was quoted stating the markets would be open today! As if to hope by saying it, he would speed up the wait. The CNBC heads, after hearing this were looking at each other saying in disbelief "that's impossible, what is the SEC trying to do?". A very unusual statement from a man supposedly aware of all internal and external market conditions. Might be something nasty brewing below the surface here as Pitts is acting nervous, despite the carte blanche given to them
through this disaster. Keep an eye on what Pitt says the next few days.
*************

Just on...5 more firemen found alive in rubble!

also....

Two more fireman found dead....embracing each other, as if they knew they weren't going to get out in time. Just as they were brothers in life, they were brothers in death.


Max Rabbitz (09/13/01; 12:26:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61385)
Demon in Photo
http://www.artbell.com/letters21.html
A photo of the burning towers in the link above appear to show the image of a demon. From the Art Bell site. Kind of spooky.

Also a picture shown of.... ""An album cover by a group called "Coup." It was published on the Web on July 19th, 2001. It looks EXACTLY like both impacts!""

Max: Looks to me like one of the guys is pushing a detonator while the other directs the orchestra. Just a coincidence or are the terror links deeper than we'd like to think? The title "Coup" says a lot.

Max Rabbitz (09/13/01; 11:53:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61384)
Interview with General Singlaub
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/13/93136.shtml
Gen. Jack Singlaub, the former U.S. supreme commander of all U.S.forces in Korea, told NewsMax that additional, more significant attacks against the U.S. could take place in the next several weeks.
He warned that an escalation of terror – which might follow such an elaborate scheme as we have already seen unfold – might include the use of chemical or biological weapons of mass destruction........
From NewsMax:
"What Clinton did was get the good people out of these agencies, the intelligence agencies. They either quit or were fired. The people who supported Clinton stayed or were promoted. "Look at the case of Notra Trulock [former head of nuclear weapons security at the Dept. of Energy]. He was fired because he complained about the lack of security. The people who agreed with Clinton and helped produce this current situation are still running these agencies in the U.S. government.

Don't tar Muslims.

"This is very similar to 1941, after Pearl Harbor, when the loyalty of Japanese were questioned. As it turned out the Japanese-American were fiercely loyal. There are many good Arabs and Muslims in America. These are good Americans. Many,if not most of the Arab countries have been good allies of the United States. We should not harm a lot of our good allies."


BR549 (09/13/01; 11:10:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61383)
Is there a precedent for the U.S. for declaring war on terrorism rather than a country?
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/barbary.htm

"American merchant ships, no longer covered by British protection, were seized by Barbary pirates in the years after United States independence, and American crews were enslaved. In 1799 the United States agreed to pay $18,000 a year in return for a promise that Tripoli-based corsairs would not molest American ships. Similar agreements were made at the time with the rulers of Morocco, Algiers, and Tunis."

"Diplomacy backed by resolute force soon brought the rulers of Barbary to terms and gained wide spread respect for the new American nation."

Terrorism is not a new thing and the proven remedies are very old.

BR549

Usul (09/13/01; 11:08:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 61382)
A Personal Recollection From a Day of Horror
http://www.geocities.com/ritholtz/bpr.html
"...It was astounding. Not that his story is unique, or definitive; Rather, its simply one man's tale of survival during a period of unthinkable horror and utter chaos. Since he has no interest in writing up what happened, I have -- with his permission -- attempted to retell his story. I know it has been purging for me to put it down on paper; I hope his telling of it was cathartic for him..."


The Invisible Hand (9/13/01; 10:09:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 61381)
European?
Date: Thu, 13 Sep 01 21:32PM PST
From: "Yahoo! Alerts - Breaking News" <alerts-breakingnews@yahoo-inc.com>
To: The Invisible Hand
Subject: Yahoo! Breaking News

Breaking News::

WASHINGTON _ Federal Reserve makes $50 billion available to support European banking system.

tedw (9/13/01; 09:20:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 61380)
Loving your enemy
http://www.usagold.com

Many people are confused about the meaning of loving your enemy, the use of force, and the meaning of "revenge is mine saith the Lord".


It does NOT mean you cannot use force. It does mean that force should not be used motivated by Hatred.

In fact, love your enemy would be better translated by saying dont hate your enemy.


There are those, like Hitler etc., who understand only the use of force. We should retaliate against those responsible, knowing full well that if we dont we will only encourge further terror attacks, and we will be seen as weak.




Sierra Madre (9/13/01; 09:04:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 61379)
Max Rabbitz...thanks for your kind words!

A kind word does wonders...

Well, I disagree with some of your views too; trouble is, I don't agree with practically anybody!

My mom once said I was a bigot. That hurt, but...it was probably right on the mark. "Know thyself". I've tried to loosen up a bit, and perhaps I have to some extent. Still room for improvement, no doubt.

About the recent horror: I noticed the comment on Deutsche Welle, (German TV) by Jeffrey Foxx in N.Y. who said that it would be helpful, to avoid more of this, if the US leadership reviewed their foreign policy, rather than simply going out and smashing at the adversary.

Other comments on BBC, I think, were to the effect that it would be very helpful if the US leadership were well aware of WHY there is so much hatred in the Arab world, rather than deciding to go and kick butt right off.

Joseph Sobran wrote an excellent article, which I saw yesterday, on the subject.

The US, itself, has no need to cultivate enemies in the Middle East. If all the other powers get along satisfactority in the MIddle East, it is not because the US is protecting them, it is in spite of the US. And if the others get along, why can't the US get along? Why, Why?

The answer is obvious so I won't mention it.

But the US will just roll blindly on, as all Empires do; until it demolishes itself.

Have a good day, Max!

Sierra

Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 08:19:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61378)
Another poster, 'tz', at his best...
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=180244
"Force without control breaks its own back. ... If we never seek the ounce of prevention - even now - we will be paying for pounds of cure later...

"Personally, and especially after yesterday's tragedy, I am on the side of life. I am not a dove, but my goal is not random killing just to satisfy the blood lust for revenge of some.

"If killing someone - anyone - would make you feel better, then the terrorists have killed your soul as much as they have killed the bodies of those in the WTC. And they will have scored another victory.

"There is never a time for hatred. Even now. We must act, and act in war, but not out of anger or hatred. If we do we will be no better than the terrorists, merely on the other side on their level. "

Hannah Arendt wrote a book on "The Banality of Evil," putting a different slant on history's view of the Nazis' crimes in the Holocaust.

In line with that perspective, it is possible to see that MOST instances of violence, and nearly all attitudes of hatred, are, finally, STUPID.

STUPID. They don't get you what you want, or even what you THINK you want, but get you farther behind where you need to be. And isn't getting by in life hard enough to begin, without making things more difficult?



Galearis (9/13/01; 08:15:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61377)
silver ....back to a "brighter" topic... a new Ted Butler
http://www.investmentrarities.com/09-12-01.html
This interview happened prior to the horrendous event in N.Y and Washington. Keep in the back of ones mind that silver is a vitally important metal in the military industrial complex that could shortly (sic) be found to be in lacking substance. Paper silver does not work nearly as well as the real thing.

snip**

Butler: We live in a world full of financial and economic uncertainty. The assets we thought were compatible with this world, don't look as compatible as most folks thought. The financial world has changed, fairly dramatically, in the past year or two, and we must flow with the tides. Because of silver's price and fundamental situation, there is little risk and great profit potential - pennies to the downside and many dollars to the upside. An investment portfolio without a significant core silver position will be at a disadvantage. A real silver position will not hurt you, and may change, or help you maintain, your standard of living. It won't drop 65%, like the NASDAQ did. It won't go bankrupt, nor default. It will let you sleep soundly. That's at least until the price run starts. Just don't wait until the price confirms the bullish fundamentals. Put your thinking cap on, and look to the future. Let someone else study last month's price performance. And no getting cute with leveraged contracts or fancy silver paper. Buy the real thing.

unsnip***

The first line is expecially ironic.

G.


CoBra(too) (9/13/01; 08:09:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61376)
Re: Nostradamus
As I've already stated I'm not an adept or scholar of Nostradamus and apologize for unthinkingly passing it on.

Anyway, here's what Bill Murphy has to say about it - regards cb2


Le Metropole Members,

In a time of such crisis and incredible human emotions,
one always would like to do the right thing. My take on
that is because when times are so awful, as they are now,
all of us that have experienced moments like this that
seem so unbearable do not want to hear about the trivial,
or matters that are irrelevant to the essence of what we
have to deal with.

In these times, if grief stricken, little matters but
how to deal with our unsuspected tragedy or emotions.
What was so important yesterday, in our day to day
living, is totally n'importante today as a result of
lightening like, life changing circumstances.

I am numb like everyone else as a result of the recent
terrorist events. As I said in my last email,
I had no intention of saying anything but got besieged
by emails, so I related my own thoughts to Cafe members.

It now appears that the Nostradomus quote is a pitiful
hoax by some deranged nitwit. I still don't know. But,
the Cafe is going into its 4th year right now and already
I have received more feedback on a Cafe email than on
any other in Cafe history - in just the first hour.

Obviously, that deserves immediate attention. If it
is a hoax, I am sorry that I put it out there, but
it changes nothing in terms of what this average guy
has to say about the outrage.

That stands!

In a time of such crisis and incredible human emotions,
one always would like to do the right thing.

My take on that is because when times are so awful, as
they are now, all of us - that have experienced moments
like this that seem so unbearable - do not want to hear
about the inane and what does not pertain to our personal
suffering.

How can any of us be different?

We are not!

Shifting gears:

Without going into any editorial gold commentary,
allow me to send the following to the Cafe way to keep
you up to speed about what is fact:

1.By Adrian Dascalu

LONDON, Sept 12 (Reuters) - Britain sold another 20
tonnes of gold on Wednesday, the day after terror attacks against the United States catapulted the metal's price
higher, but traders said the auction gave no clear sign
of the market's direction.
The auction by the Bank of England, number three in the
third and final series of sales designed to reduce
Britain's gold reserves by 415 tonnes, had an allotment
price of $280.00 a troy ounce and was 4.3 times
oversubscribed.

2. There has been much talk that the Comex has been
vaporized. The Comex was re-located in the Financial
Center, which is still standing. They ought to be OK
for business, in time. The soft commodities - cocoa,
coffee and sugar were still operating from the WTC.
That is history.

Canada's Globe and Mail is doing a story tomorrow about
the Comex gold and silver inventories, which are buried
below one of the WTC towers. What that means?

Gold rallied $18 yesterday and was crushed most of
that today. What else is new? Same modus operundi bull
crap The Gold Cartel has effected over the past 7 years.

Outrage is what all Americans feel as a result
of yesterday's chilling, terrorist attack.

Another of those horror shows is staring the US right
in the face, and as in this attack, US citizens have
no clue. You know exactly what I mean.

I will have more tomorrow in Midas.

God help and bless us all,

<A HREF="http://www.LeMetropoleCafe.com/entrance.cfm"> Le Metropole Cafe</A>

All the best,

Bill Murphy
Le Patron
www.LeMetropoleCafe.com



Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 08:04:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61375)
Liquidity
http://www.dailyreckoning.com/
(Bill Bonner, link above, is eloquent today.)

Miner49er, good catch -- "The ECB will be able to draw from the $50 billion at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, receiving dollar deposits in exchange for an equivalent amount of euros.

"The ECB will make these dollar deposits available to national central banks of the Eurosystem, which will use them to help meet dollar liquidity needs of European banks,..."

I would have thought Europe was awash in dollars (except for the present inability to sell US financial assets -- maybe that's it), not in need of them. Fed gets Euros by this, which they were probably short of. Looks like trying to clear some slack for the payments system, when it's been accustomed to a $trillion a day of currency trading. What will four days hacked out of the calendar do to them when it's time to square up the accounts?

Does ECB fear a system crash, on the eve of its world-currency "takeover"? US holds them hostage? ("Swap with us for more dollars, or we'll crash the plane"). I can only see this one very dimly -- probably not even getting near the right questions. Oro? Randy?

And good catch with Ron Paul. Isn't it amazing -- an "Austrian" in Congress! Is there something special in the water in one small corner of Texas?


Goldentrill (9/13/01; 08:03:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61374)
Editorial
THE UNITED STATES


This, from a Canadian newspaper, is worth sharing.

America: The Good Neighbor.

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given
recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast from
Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television
commentator. What follows is the full text of his
trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:

"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the
Americans as the most generous and possibly the least
appreciated people on all the earth.
Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the
Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these
countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States.
When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956,
it was the Americans who propped it up, and their
reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets
of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the
United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59
American communities were flattened by tornadoes.
Nobody helped.
The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped
billions of dollars! into discouraged countries. Now
newspapers in those countries are writing about the
decadent, warmongering Americans.
I'd like to see just one of those countries that
is gloating over the erosion of the United States
dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country
in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo
Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10?
If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the
International lines except Russia fly American Planes?
Why does no other land on earth even consider putting
a man or woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese
technocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles.
You talk about American technocracy, and you find
men on the moon -! not once, but several times -
and safely home again.
You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs
right in the store window for everybody to look at.
Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded.
They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless
they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American
dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.
When the railways of France, Germany and India
were breaking down through age, it was the Americans
who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and
the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an
old caboose. Both are still broke.
I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced
to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name
me even one time when someone else raced to the
Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside
help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one
Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get
kicked around. They will come out of this thing with
their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled
to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating
over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not one of
those."
Stand proud, America!
This is one of the best editorials that I have ever
read regarding the United States. It is nice that
one man realizes it. I only wish that the rest of the
world would realize it. We are always blamed for
everything and never even get a thank you for the
things we do.
I would hope that each of you would send this to
as many people as you can and emphasize that they
should send it to as many of their friends until this
letter is sent to every person on the web. I am just a
single American that has read this.
I SURE HOPE THAT A LOT MORE READ IT SOON. GOLDENTRILL


miner49er (9/13/01; 07:39:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61373)
and more of the same...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20010913/aponline091940_000.htm
more fed liquidity...

Editor, The Gilded Opinion (9/13/01; 07:32:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61372)
Congressman Ron Paul Appearing Today at THE GILDED OPINION
http://www.usagold.com/THEGILDEDOPINION.html
"The turbulent period we are entering may serve to remind Americans that the Fed cannot suspend the laws of economics. The key to lasting prosperity is a return to true private banking, where interest rates are set by the free market, and dollars are backed by gold."

THE GILDED OPINION is pleased to announce our first contribution from the venerable Texas Congressman Ron Paul. Please use the link above to reach Rep. Paul's latest column on monetary policy "The Fed Cannot Create Prosperity".








Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 07:15:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 61371)
"Another" thought...
Here, for the past two years, we have been trying to tease the meaning out of events to which the public has been totally oblivious: WA, GATA suit, "deep storage" reclassification. We have become "experts" on many things no one cares to hear anything about, even though we understand the value of pursuing them.

This week is the first event in that time that meets (or surpasses) the magnitude of the changes FOA has been pointing us toward, albeit in another field of news. Whether or not it translates into changes of that type remains to be seen, but the crisis is at that level, IMO.

Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 07:07:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61370)
"What happens when the markets reopen?"
http://moneycentral.msn.com/articles/invest/extra/7826.asp
Much of it true, except for one small problem: We've been living in a Bubble. You can't un-pop a bubble. If we had been living in a sane economy with a baseline of savings and investment, not borrowing and gambling, the "floor" would be much nearer, and the "bounce" more likely.

Black and Scholes, where are you now? Amidst the Beta, and Delta, and Gamma, etc etc, is there a ("Ponzi"?) variable for a long market closure, followed by a strain on the payments system by the shutdown or insolvency of several major counterparties? I didn't think so.

Max Rabbitz (9/13/01; 07:06:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61369)
Couple of comments
Christian: "I would like to know who owns JPM's $26,000,000,000,000 derivative position." Easy...George Herbert Walker Bush, obviously. :)

Sierra on long hair: It looks like profiling may come back into vogue. For those who could be mistaken for a middle eastern type I suggest letting your hair grow out a little. The "Holy men" never have long hair. They think it's an "abomination." Sierra, I enjoy reading your comments and often agree, though not always.



Clint H (9/13/01; 07:04:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61368)
Christian (usagold.com msg#: 61365)
Christian
IF you insist on making such outlandish statements as if they were fact, would you please back them up with a link or two?

Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 06:57:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61367)
For example...
http://www.peacebrigades.org/
"Peace Brigades International (PBI) is a non-governmental organization (NGO) which protects human rights and promotes nonviolent transformation of conflicts.

"When invited, we send teams of volunteers into areas of political repression and conflict. The volunteers accompany human rights defenders, their organizations, and others threatened by political violence. Those responsible for human rights abuses usually do not want the world to witness their actions. The presence of volunteers backed by an emergency response network thus helps deter violence. In this way, we create space for local activists to work for social justice and human rights."


Mr Gresham (9/13/01; 06:38:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61366)
Simply Me: State of Shock
We are all in a State of Shock.

Your words did _not_ convey disrespect to me. Disrespect has as its undercurrent the impulse to eject another and his/her views from our company. I have no desire to find myself in LESS company in the days ahead, especially of the caring and intelligence you bring to us. "Back to lurking" is not the optimal choice here, but posting from our best thoughts is. And even then, we will probably feel we've come up short, so tolerance and patience are the right attitudes, toward ourselves and others...

I know what you mean by the Scots thing. That blood does move e'en now when it hears the skirl o' th' pipes.

When an American man came to age 18 in 1968, or thereabouts, he was faced with the question of participation in War. Many of us did the most serious thinking of our entire lifetimes around then.

Today, I think over all of the news in my lifetime since then, and still only Vietnam stands out in its impact on Americans next to the attack on Tuesday. The rest seems, by comparison, almost to be "filler on a slow news day."

I think this week is going to be something of a Vietnam impact in a compressed time, the brevity of which will have both a healing effect, but also inject an undercurrent of uncomprehended violence deep into our national life (or draw out that which smolders already).

As with the PTSD or "post-traumatic stress disorder" we have learned the most about from our Vietnam veterans, we are going to have to watch for these effects. If there's something equivalent to "catching" PTSD from "second-hand" violence, we're finding out now...

If you think about your own closest encounter with violence (mine was being blindsided by a red-light runner), you know how long the effects on your psyche can persist.

That is the context of what we face now in our national "body", with which most people identify emotionally, even while their physical bodies are safe and untouched by the violence.

That is why we need the extra time to think, to listen to our children, to remember our own grounds of faith and belief.

This one's hard to forget, even after years away from the book: "Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called the children of God."

Christian (9/13/01; 06:23:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61365)
(No Subject)
In 1991 George Herbert Walker Bush imported 4000 Iraqi military officers and moved to Lincoln Nebraska + Oklahoma City. George Herbert Walker Bush made over $10 trillion dollars during the last two days covering his short positions in the leading hedge funds on other exchanges while our exchange is closed. People's 401k plan and Keogh plans are being transfered via our financial markets to the account of George Herbert Walker Bush. The greatest King Pin on earth.....the present president of the USA while his son is acting president. I would like to know who owns JPM's $26,000,000,000,000 derivative position.

Black Blade (9/13/01; 05:59:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 61364)
Gold Depositories Buried Beneath Trade Center Rubble
http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPrint.asp?Page=\Business\archive\200109\BUS20010912b.html

Snippit:

New York (CNSNews.com) - As New Yorkers try to recover from the attack on the World Trade Center, financial markets have yet to feel the full impact of the terrorist action. Far beneath the shattered buildings, screaming ambulances and dazed New Yorkers on the streets of Manhattan are two of the world's largest gold depositories.

At the World Trade Center itself is another, smaller gold storage facility owned by a group of commercial banks. When Islamic radicals bombed the World Trade Center in 1993, the New York Police Department and FBI at one point thought that the attack might have been a raid on the gold depository. The explosion eight years ago was close to the vault, which withstood the explosion. It's not known how much gold was kept in the World Trade Center vaults in 1993, but it's believed as much as $1 billion in Kuwaiti gold eight years ago.

It's also believed that the amount gold currently buried beneath the debris of the World Trade Center today far exceeds the 1993 levels. Kuwaiti officials in New York declined to discuss the matter.

Black Blade: Deep storage gold now a little deeper. "Interesting Times" indeed.


Usul (9/13/01; 05:37:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61363)
@Michael re. your comment on Nostradamus
http://www.nostradamus-repository.org/cityofgod.html
Nostradamus should best be approached as historical study or an entertainment. Of course, no-one should base any investment decisions on it.

The "two brothers" verse is apparently not by Nostradamus, but derived from a demonstration of how an abstract statement can be "interpreted" in many ways (see Link).

Nostradamus in modern english varies considerably depending on the bias of the interpreter, resulting in comparitive translations that have radically different meanings.

I suspect that the chances that anyone translating Nostradamus is a sufficiently good scholar of Old French to render an accurate meaning are very slim.

Skeptic's Nostradamus: http://wheel.dcn.davis.ca.us/~btcarrol/skeptic/nostrada.html
Hoaxes, including fake Nostradamus:
http://www.jmacsnippets.com/Knet_Hoaxes.htm

Sources of Nostradamus texts:

http://run.to/nostradamus
http://go.to/prophecies


SteveH (9/13/01; 05:35:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61362)
A friend who is also a coin dealer (imagine that)
said that his gold sales have picked up and are quite steady. He had to break into his personal stash. He has not had to reorder from his suppliers yet. I asked him if he knew what the reorder time would be. He said he had no clue, but hadn't asked.

Old Yeller (9/13/01; 03:21:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61361)
Hedge fund difficulties
http://markets.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3ER5KDJRC&live=true&tagid=ZZZDQOQD20C&subheading=UK%20equities

Interesting comment;

"concerned with the reliability of their counter-parties."



site steward (9/13/01; 02:37:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61360)
Insight into continuing plight of the U.S. dollar
As the news I have posted over the past few days serves to show how central banks in modern times band together to stave off monetary settlement illiquidities that would otherwise magnify a crisis or economic disruption, it remains the case that in the big picture it is "every man for himself". Self-interest (or national interest) is a powerful motivator over the long term.

With that in mind, share with me this look at the monetary adjustments of Euroland for the week ended September 7th -- prior to this tragedy unfolding.

According to the consolidated balance sheet of the Eurosystem of central banks, last week they pared down their net holdings of foreign currency by a value equivalent to EUR 800 million. If the dollar were the supreme asset, wouldn't you expect them to cling to these particular paper currency assets?

By contrast, the gold holdings fell by only EUR 34 million, the result of continuing "Washington Agreement" operations; 3.3 tonnes being reallocated during the week by one of the member banks, likely the Netherlands.

Right now, the Eurosystem holds foreign currency valued at EUR 272.6 billion, and gold valued at EUR 128.268 billion. If you ponder the upcoming effects from the current weakening of the dollar and strengthening of gold upon the Eurosystem's quarterly revaluation of assets on September 28th as these holdings are marked to market, you will more clearly catch a glimpse of the Big Picture to unfold over the proper course of time -- even hastened, perhaps, by external shocks.

And that's precisely the key element to keep in mind; that this unified euro monetary system has learned from past mistakes and has been designed for resiliency. Unlike two prior attempts at European currency unions, this one was built on a firmer foundation than its predecessors and competitors (including "free market gold" as a vital element) so as not to be derailed by external shocks that inevitably recur throughout the timeline of human events.

Call Centennial and take part in "resiliency" on an individual basis. We all need gold, now more than ever.

Randy

site steward (9/13/01; 01:38:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61359)
Do you know what your corporate stocks are worth now? Markets closed for yet another day.
http://www.usagold.com/goldenchalkboard/gc_stockbubble.html
Stocks were justifiably falling in market value before Tuesday's terrroristic external shock. With U.S. stock markets remaining closed at this point, you have no way to liquidate your position, and no notion of what stock portion of your net worth has become. Aggregate confidence and sentiment surely suffers as a result.

Physical gold, by contrast, continues to trade in markets around the clock, around the world.

Here's an interesting change in perspective. Holders and traders of Comex gold derivatives such as the December futures contracts have, due to closure of the COMEX trading floor, had to evaluate what their contracts might be worth by looking at the trade of gold occurring in other markets.

Given that spot gold prices have effectively become a mathematical derivative of the price-discovery occurring on derivative markets such as the COMEX, can you see how easily such a derived "spot price" can managed or actually dumped in times of crisis? Its not hard to imagine even the faithful longs wanting to sell out of their gold paper for the real thing -- if only the COMEX trading floor had been open.

This is one of the several arguments for gold trade and price-discovery to occur on a physical market basis only -- no derivatives to send mixed signals or artificial prices.

Call Centennial today for a helpful consultation to diversify your wealth portfolio.

Randy

AllanC (9/13/01; 01:18:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61358)
THEY MUST PAY FOR IT!!!
Well, I never thought I would hear this From Angeltown

Mr Phil: (from Angeltown on his soapbox): Citizens and fellow goldhoarders! This was an act of war. Some country out there did this! I just know it. We must attack and annihilate our enemies.

Fellow citizen: But Mr Phil from Angeltown, how did you arrive at this conclusion?

Mr Phil: Well some expert said it on the news, so I know it's true. So let's get the b*sterds!

Another citizen: But Mr Phil, should not this be a time for prayers and reflection, surely those that did this will be found, but to assume a whole country is responsible....

Mr Phil: (Foaming at the mouth) Never you mind. They did this to us and they will pay. How dare they? We are Americans dammit and this action will not stand. We will blow them and their cities up, you'll see. And in the end they won't dare to even contemplate any further cowardly acts of this sort.

Another citizen: But you got to ask yourself who the cowards are don't you? After all they were willing to die for a cause and take their medicine. While our men in bombers who from a safe distance lob bombs on their positions and run for safety to their
carrier are called heroes. Isn't that a little incongruous?

Mr Phil: That's treacherous talk. How dare you malign our brave fighting men who are protecting our freedoms. It is not they who are hiding but those cowards who won't come out and fight like men. Now go away traitor as you and your ilk will also be weeded out and destroyed!

(And the world goes on.....)



Simply Me (9/13/01; 00:14:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61357)
@ Mr. Gresham
Sir, I meant no disrespect of your views, maybe I am just getting myself emotionally psyched for what I believe is ahead. I pray for peace but prepare for war. That is an essential part of why I have followed the Gold Trail for the last two years. (A mother's blessings on FOA and Another, MK and our site steward, Randy.)

Please pardon my rant, a woman with children gets tunnel vision when she perceives a threat to her family, and terrorist attacks on American soil are simply intolerable.
It must be the Celtic blood in me. During Rome's campaign of conquest a Ceasar once reported back to Rome, "We were doing alright against the Scots...until their wives came along."

You may not be able to change my perceptions yet Mr. Gresham, but we will both be praying that you are right in the end.
I will go back to lurking.
simply












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