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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 1/12/2003
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

GoldnSilver2002 (01/12/03; 23:59:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 94249)
If you watch closely you can see their silly plans
The new plan now is simple'send a bunch of elliot wavers in amongst the goldbugs and then spread the word,gold isnt bad anymore,its in a bubble lol.They simply hope to send a big enough dip to allow their buddies in the back door.Where else can the gold come from but the weak hands?These dips dont last and the floor on gold gets higher and higher.The gold shorts are getting ill'so what would you expect them to say?"Gold will fly and im going bankrupt?" Many who missed the last upswing are waiting with drooling lips for the weak hands to drop their position and let them in the game.Since the shanghai exchange(china) opened the gold bottom has gone up and up.The lower gold goes,the more will be bought.The more is bought,the quicker physical dries up.Go ahead mr fed knock it down,give the asians an excuse to buy more.

Sierra Madre (01/12/03; 23:44:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 94248)
Why is gold down?

My take:

The defenders of the dollar (and enemies of a rising gold price) know that the whole world is watching gold this evening.

Too many people know that the crisis is building, that gold is ready to burst upward this week.

The dollar bloc must nip the expectation in the bud, they must discourage and disorient the pro-gold forces. They cannot wait until N.Y. opens, to sell down. That may be too late!

They must start early, NOW, to sell it down.

BUY THE DIPS! They taught the stock market that. Now, it's our turn. How sweet it is!

Sierra

Sierra Madre (01/12/03; 23:20:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 94247)
Belgian: excellent observations, tying in clues dropped over the years

Sir Belgian, you should also be known as Hercule Poirot, Jr., incarnation of the world-famous Belgian detective, a personage created by Agatha Christie.

Indeed, all we have are clues, faint tracks and intuition to tell us where the leaders of EU are going. Of course, they are not going to tell us! Democracy is a subject which cannot be criticized in our day, however, those in power take the decisions and lead - if they have the will and the intellect to do so. It was always so, and always will be so.

Your deductions are most interesting and make sense.

What we have at this Forum, is the ability to gather information and points of view as a group, and thus solve the puzzle or attempt to do so. The vast majority of humans is not even aware that the puzzle exists.

Going forward, we shall gather more clues and our certainty will increase.

Let us stock up on gold, before the whole puzzle is solved and everyone knows!

Sierra

Dollar Bill (01/12/03; 21:06:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 94246)
A find from Mr Greshams Link
This is an exerpt from the EURO website MR GRESHAM linked us to today. The writer is discussing euro vunerabilities.
As you finish, consider, (forgive me for suggesting this but....), Jewish Finance men have a long term grudge against
Germany and Other euro countries, and consider the dollar as thier own. It is the dollar that supports Isreal and the US dollar military that backs up thier country and France and Germany both have made caustic comments about Isreal with some frequency.
It is a currency war, and if push comes to shove, the writer, who is a big EURO backer, is on to something.

"I, and the community of foreign exchange speculators contribute ninety five per cent to the daily FX turnover of three trillion dollars. That's three thousand billion dollars every day. That compares to the latest EU central bank reserves of three hundred and eleven billion dollars.

So, my speculator is part of a supremely powerful gang. He loathes EMU, but he will follow its progress as closely as any politician, perhaps more closely. For him, and his tribe of stateless warriors, there are billions of dollars at stake. That is the flag to which they bow, not nationalism, not politics, not dogma. He shall be a hyena waiting for the corpses of the countries that do not make EMU. Can you imagine the lead up to currency lock? Politicians trying to knock their countries and currencies into shape. Let me tell you the dream scenario of my speculator, let's call him Mr FX.

One of the key countries to EMU is having trouble with convergence. Its politicians are determined it will meet the criteria, they're doing what politicians of course will be unable to do once a part of EMU, they are using their unindependent central bank to manipulate monetary policy to a short term goal. Amongst the political community, it is unthinkable that this currency will not join EMU. But I, and Mr FX make a living from thinking the unthinkable. He thinks this country will not join EMU. He could buy a supremely cheap out of the money put option on this currency, because most people, even the markets, think even if the country doesn't quite meet the criteria, it will be fudged into EMU.

The odds, if you like, on his bet, are fantastic. A rank outsider. And then the unthinkable happens, the country doesn't join EMU. Mr FX and his co-warriors punish it ruthlessly, short selling its currency, driving the exchange rate down with their trillion dollar war chest. Perhaps the countries of the EU try to support the beleaguered currency, going into the markets. Norman Lamont could tell us all about how successful that will be. Ten billion dollars later, Mr FX and his gang retire to count their profits. But don't worry, they'll be back. Luxembourg is apparently trying to devise a war plan to head off speculative attack by FX predators.
***My advice is; get ready! And if you think the speculators can't get at the countries within EMU, think again. It won't be long before our derivatives geniuses dream up a new synthetic currency. Where there is motive, there will always be opportunity."




knotakare (01/12/03; 20:34:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 94245)
Ax, re US reserves
You said: "The U.S. should just be out there trying to augment its reserves withouta top limit - but only in reasonable increments. "

We can only hope and pray that our monetary administrators would have the smarts and foresight to be doing just as you say, on the sly. This is what I would do. But it appears that our US gold reserves over the past 30 years have been headed out of the country in a westerly direction, as a result of our large trade deficits and the "strong dollar policy " of the past 30 years, and especially the gold leasing by the FED to the Bullion Banks.

Ax, if you get a chance read the Book "Gold Wars" by Ferdinand Lipps. it discusses many of these issues you are concerned with. Barnes & Noble could not get the book for me last year, but I did get it through Amazon.com

Ax, good fortune to you on your gold trail! I am in sympathy with o your desire to get the US back on a stable money system.



ElGordo (01/12/03; 20:29:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 94244)
Too Little Too Late-Oil steady
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=580&u=/nm/20030113/bs_nm/markets_oil_dc&printer=1
SINGAPORE (Reuters) - Oil prices held steady on Monday, shrugging off OPEC (news - web sites)'s weekend pact to raise supplies as being too little, too late to lift wafer-thin U.S. fuel stocks anytime soon.


The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries agreed at an emergency meeting in Vienna on Sunday to increase official production limits by 1.5 million barrels per day (bpd) to compensate for six weeks of losses in strike-bound Venezuelan supplies.


U.S. light crude tumbled almost 50 cents in early trade to an intraday low at $31.20 a barrel, but quickly recovered to stand six cents down at $31.62 at 9:45 p.m. EST Sunday.


Analysts said prices were little changed as traders saw no short-term relief for U.S. crude inventories, which are hovering just above 26-year lows as the stoppage in Venezuelan exports eats into supplies to the world's biggest oil consumer.


Oil from Middle East suppliers takes four to six weeks to reach U.S. shores, while Venezuelan supplies, which account for 13 percent of U.S. imports, arrive in about five days.


"There are delays in getting oil from the Middle East to the United States, plus OPEC's agreement is for 1.5 million barrels per day, but prior to the strike Venezuela production was about 2.5 million," said David Thurtell, commodities strategist at Commonwealth Bank in Sydney


"The global market is going to remain tight and with ongoing war fears, you've got to be pretty brave to sell oil at the moment," said Thurtell.


ALARM BELLS


The Middle East-dominated cartel fears an oil price shock if a U.S.-led war in Iraq should come before Venezuelan supplies are restored.


Venezuela, OPEC's third-biggest producer, is fifth in world exporter rankings, while Iraq sells up to two million bpd overseas, which could be disrupted if war breaks out.


The strike and the looming threat of war pushed U.S. crude to a two-year high at $33.65 at the end of December, setting off alarm bells that a run of high energy bills would damage the fragile global economy.


OPEC President Abdullah al-Attiyah said on Sunday OPEC would meet again if Venezuela restores full production. OPEC has scheduled an ordinary ministerial meeting for March 11.


OPEC's agreement brings the cartel's official production ceiling for its 10 members bound by quotas to 24.5 million bpd. Iraq sells oil under the United Nations (news - web sites)' oil-for-food program and is excluded from OPEC's quota system.


Analysts saw little chance of prices heading below $30 despite the additional OPEC crude. Actual new oil to hit the world's 76 million bpd market would be limited, they said.


OPEC's latest increase was divided pro-rata among members, meaning Venezuela was also granted its share of the higher output limit despite the strike, which entered its 43rd day on Monday and has slashed oil exports to roughly one-fifth, or 500,000 bpd.


Many others in OPEC have little, or no, spare capacity to bump up production.


"I certainly see oil staying above $30 until the Venezuelan situation is sorted out," said Paul Ashby, oil and gas analyst at ABN Amro in Sydney.

Black Blade (01/12/03; 20:00:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 94243)
Why gold is gaining in a world awash with dollars
http://www.business.scotsman.com/economy.cfm?id=43182003

Snippit:

A terrible fear-provoking thought is gaining ground among the guardians of the US economy. It is that the man in the street, who for decades has enabled the economy to remain on a long, upward path by consuming more than he produces, may be reaching the limit of his capacity for excess consumption and its corollary debt.

Now, horror of horrors, the ever-rapacious US consumers may be about to abandon profligacy and restore their balance sheets by consuming less and, perish the thought, saving. In a pre-emptive campaign to prevent the US consumer from abandoning over-spending and embarking on a path of prudent parsimony, Alan Greenspan has already used up most of his conventional firepower and slashed the Federal Funds rate to 1.25 per cent.

The US consumer, like the proverbial horse, has been brought to water but is reluctant to drink more. There is not yet panic within the hallowed halls of the Fed but the spectre of deflation, last seen in the 1930s, is starting to loom larger and it is recognised that unconventional weapons may be needed to prevent it taking grip. Dubya has already announced an economic stimulus (anti-deflation) tax-cutting initiative. There is a serious misconception that central banks can increase or decrease the money supply at will. The media make much of central banks resorting to the "printing press" to get economies out of trouble (or to get them into trouble by over-cranking the press and causing inflation).

In truth, the monetary system only works when there are willing borrowers and willing lenders. In an attempt to boost money supply, the Fed may aggressively buy Treasury Bonds from the banks, thus forcing down long-term interest rates and leaving the banks with vast sums of cash to do with what they will.

Black Blade: The "strong dollar" policy is dead. As Greenspan and Bernanke point out, they will fire up the printing presses to fight deflation and attempt to stimulate the economy while at the same time foreign investors bail (selling out of depreciating dollar investments). Gold continues to gain strength against weak currencies. For the dollar it's "Game Over".



Cavan Man (01/12/03; 19:34:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 94242)
kagalaska: Live long and prosper.
Russell is right. The battle is just beginning.
Richard Russell On Gold

What's the best rule in investing? Here it is dear subscribers, it's FOLLOW THE MONEY.

I'll give you an example. I'm going to use gold.

Around January 2001 when gold was selling at 255 there was almost no interest in gold. Then, as gold began to rise, old-timers like Richard Russell noticed the rise, noticed the moving averages looking bullish, and we advised buying gold. We were simply following the money. But Wall Street's experts talked gold down and told us that the central banks was "selling the junk" so why in the world should anyone buy it? But as gold continued to rise, gold began to elicit interest from other more-intelligent experts, and today on CNBC World I heard a ten minute serious discussion on gold. Why the discussion on gold at this time? Only one reason. The reason is that gold has been rising in price, and despite all the stupid and uneducated comments, the rising price of gold is now starting to generate serious interest. It's simply a case of FOLLOWING THE MONEY. The world is beginning to follow the path of real money.

Here's another interesting example of 'follow the money.' Saudi Arabia is beefing up its forces. Newsweek reports that to strengthen its ties with the White House, the Saudis have retained the services of a high-powered law firm. Which law firm? Well, surprise, surprise, it's the law firm of former Texas GOP congressman Tom Loefler, whose firm will be paid $720,000 a year. Loefler is one of Bush's top moneymen. In fact, Loefler headed up fund-raising for Bush's first gubernatorial campaign. Loefler is also close to VP Cheney.

History shows that gold travels in the direction of the most powerful nations. For years the US attracted the world's gold. Then gold started to leave the US during the '60s, and in 1971 President Nixon shut the gold window. Foreigners were no longer allowed to call in US gold.

So who is accumulating the world's gold now? Where's the money going? The word I hear is that the money is going to China and Asia in general. Recently (coincidence?) China opened the Shanghai Gold Exchange, and it seems that China is now encouraging its 1.3 billion population to buy gold. Now why would the Chinese, who have been gold-savvy for thousands of years, do that?

Then we hear the Gold Dinar has been instituted by Malaysia and soon all Muslim nations may be doing their transactions in gold. Hey, why would the Muslims be so interested in a gold currency. Competition for the dollar? Gosh, there's a thought.

As I write this morning the dollar has fallen to a new low and gold is fluctuating around its high. But gold has a technical problem. Looking at the stochastics, I can see that gold is heavily overbought. It needs a rest. True, an item can stay overbought, particularly in a bull market. But the overbought status of gold may act as a brake on gold at the present time. Furthermore, as I have explained, the Commercials have taken a huge short position against gold.

In view of the above, I would say that if gold can simply hold above 345, and in doing so work off its overbought position, it will be doing very well.

I want to add a few more words about gold. I realize that most of my subscribers now hold some kind of gold, the stocks, the metal, options, futures, I can't know for certain. But here's what I want to say.

Gold is in a primary bull market. Gold, real money, is a very emotional item, in that the central banks are afraid of it, the Austrian economists love gold, people who believe in the US Constitution love gold, inflationists hate gold, certain nations sell gold, other nations lust for gold, men throughout history have lived and died for gold, armies have fought for gold.

The reason, gold is the only money that has held its value over the course of history. Gold represents permanent wealth. This has occurred in the face of the fact that every paper currency in history has ultimately sunk to worthlessness.

In other words, gold has its detractors and its admirers, millions of them on both sides.

But gold is in a very peculiar position today. The central banks of the world are frightened of gold because if gold rises, if it takes an increasing amount of the central banks' paper junk money to buy an ounce of gold, then what the hell is wrong with their fiat paper money? It's a question and a situation that scares the devil out of the central banks.

So we can expect a lot of erratic action from gold as the various factions use their propaganda and their arguments for or against gold.

But the Russell position is this -- Gold is real money -- while dollars and euros and yen and kronos are man-manufactured pseudo-money. If central banks can generate "money" without sweat, then we know that their money is a lie. If it takes the sweat of thousands of men and multi-millions in capital to dig gold out of the ground, we know that gold is something more than a fantasy "legal tender" item produced by the central banks.

So here's what I'm getting at. Now is the time to accumulate gold and gold stocks. The hard part will be to sit with our gold and gold stocks while the great battle rages. Declines in gold will represent opportunities to accumulate more gold and gold items. Time is on the side of those of us who accumulate gold because in a bull market a given item will appreciate through time.

As the Fed generates an increasing amount of credit and paper in their battle to offset the forces of world deflation, the value of gold will increase. It's simple -- central banks are generating vastly more paper than the gold mines can produce in comparable gold values.

As gold climbs, be prepared to listen to the propaganda of the gold haters and those who fear gold. "It's too high," "It's being manipulated higher," "It's being bulled by war scares," "It's just a short squeeze."

Get used to it -- there's a huge contingent who have a vested interest in gold going nowhere. They possess loud voices, but they're losers. They're losers because they're on the wrong side of the truth.




Kagalaska (01/12/03; 19:09:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 94241)
Why is spot digging a hole (truthcaster msg#94236)
IMHO periodic corrections are good. They shake out the weak players and provide a buying opportunity for the rest of us. Also,its the NY close that matters. Besides, Spot is just digging for a bone hidden by Spike.

ax (01/12/03; 19:06:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 94240)
@ Towncrier/ Knotacre regarding Increase in US Gold Reserves

@ Towncrier/ Knotacre regarding Increase in US Gold Reserves

References:

TownCrier (01/12/03; 18:01:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 94234)
For ax, I would like to know...
How would the U.S. Treasury pay for its gold?
And if the Treasury bought it from Switzerland, as you suggest, where
would Switzerland's current gold receiver find fulfillment?

knotakare (01/12/03; 18:44:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 94237)
Ax, re US Gold Reserves
..Ax, I would like to politely say to you that what you propose to do is
not possible. If the US tried to start acguiring gold in the quantities
you mention, it would probably cause a collapse of the world's financial
system....

AX: Thank you for your observations.

Towncrier, I don't understand " where
would Switzerland's current gold receiver find fulfillment? "

AX: What do you mean, how would the U.S. pay for it? I would think
the U.S. Treasury would just write a check as any other buyer of gold
at so many dollars an ounce would do. Whoever has been buying
the gold that Britain sold in past years, and the gold that Switzerland
is selling now must be just writing a check for it.

Knotacre, " If the US tried to start acguiring gold in the quantities
you mention, it would probably cause a collapse of the world's financial
system. "

AX: OK, I suppose I could modify the proposal so that it wouldn't seem
that I am advocating a purchase of 20 k tons. Just a start is all I
would like to see. One ton at a time --whereever it is available.

Why should it cause a panic? China is buying - nobody panics about
that. If the USD is acceptable with only 8k ton gold backing, it should
be more acceptable at 8.001 kiloton backing.

The U.S. should just be out there trying to augment its reserves without
a top limit - but only in reasonable increments. I stand corrected.
Start with a single ton.

AX

Cavan Man (01/12/03; 18:58:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 94239)
N. Korea
I read where NK hasz suggested they will turn the US into a "sea of fire". I'd comment: poor choice of metaphor. Back to the drawing board.

Cavan Man (01/12/03; 18:55:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 94238)
Gold lease rates
If these rates no longer reflect the supply/demand dynamic in the market, perhaps they have ceased to be useful? Perhaps the futures' markets themselves are next? Can lease rates be meaningless and under what conditions? What are the ramifications then?

knotakare (01/12/03; 18:44:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 94237)
Ax, re US Gold Reserves
Ax, I would like to politely say to you that what you propose to do is not possible. If the US tried to start acguiring gold in the quantities you mention, it would probably cause a collapse of the world's financial system.

The fed already has the reposibility to backstop the US dollar and also the US bond and stock markets (through the Economic Stabilization Fund). The FED already is juggling too many balls in the air, to keep liquidity in the US markets, and any sign that they were acquiring gold would cause liquidity to lock up and cause a crash in the world's currency and equity/bond markets.

The fed could also call in their gold loans, but again this would cause an economic calamity. What the Fed and Treasury must now due is look for ways to devalue the dollar, without causing a panic. I think that those that say the FED will allow the price of gold to devalue the dollar, make a lot of sence. But we are facing the so called "storm", and it is anyone's quess how this will all play out.

Due to the destructive "strong dollar policy" carried out by US officials during the past 40 years, I think American citizens should be warned that any financial assets that they own will likely be expropriated by the government through great cunning and trickery. This is how far we have gone down a slippery slope.

And you can forget about getting the dollar slide to stop. This is not going to happen with the current values and government we have in this country.

Get gold and silver coins now, we are in an extreme emergency, and once the nation finds out there will be chaos.

Truthcaster (01/12/03; 18:36:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 94236)
Spot Falling Tonight
Anyone know why gold is falling tonight?
It's down about 2.00$. Maybe it's following
Oil which is down too.

ElGordo (01/12/03; 18:26:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 94235)
Reality vs happy talk
Tokyo, Jan. 13 (Bloomberg) -- Japanese stocks failed to deliver their traditional January rally in 2002. They may not have one in 2003 either.

The Nikkei 225 Stock Average has lost 1.3 percent. Computer- related companies such as Fujitsu Ltd. have dropped amid concern that profit reports from U.S. rivals, including Intel Corp., will show that global spending is slumping. Intel, the world's largest chipmaker, is among U.S. companies releasing results this week.

``Earnings results from major U.S. technology companies aren't going to convince me to buy computer-related stocks,'' said Yasuo Kamaji, who helps manage 300 billion yen ($2.5 billion) in Japanese equities at Sumitomo Mitsui Asset Management Co. ``A solid recovery won't come for a couple of years.''

TownCrier (01/12/03; 18:01:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 94234)
For ax, I would like to know...

How would the U.S. Treasury pay for its gold?

And if the Treasury bought it from Switzerland, as you suggest, where would Switzerland's current gold receiver find fulfillment?

R.

mikal (01/12/03; 17:57:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 94233)
@canamami
Lease rates would go up if gold borrowing/leasing activity increased But if real returns are now negative, the gold carry trade is muted for good reason. Add in the risks- geopolitical, economic or otherwise, and it doesn't add up anymore.

TownCrier (01/12/03; 17:56:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 94232)
All's fair in love and banking
Canamami,

It is not my place to say yea or nay here, but don't discount the thought that "lease rates" for gold are not now an unconstrained product of forces in an open market.

R.

Mr Gresham (01/12/03; 17:43:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 94231)
Euro links
http://www.ex.ac.uk/~RDavies/arian/euro.html
Lots of Euro links -- haven't had time to look into...

canamami (01/12/03; 17:35:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 94230)
Question re Lease Rates, Price and Supply
I understood that lease rates go up when supply is tight, usually in the context of a rising market. The 2003 lease rates appear to be low (libor - gofo), yet the price keeps rising. Am I missing something here? Why is the rising price not reflected in higher lease rates, and why does the price keep rising if the supply is plentiful (as reflected in the lease rates)?

ax (01/12/03; 17:34:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 94229)
HOW U.S. CAN INCREASE ITS GOLD RESERVES

HOW U.S. CAN INCREASE ITS GOLD RESERVES

Reference:

Belgian (1/3/03; 06:17:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 93304)

@ Ax : The US buying Gold ???


Belgian, you write:

*WHO* is going to sell *WICH* Gold to the US-treasury...for more US$
???
3,000 tonnes of underground gold have already been sold forward.
Paper-gold-claims exeeding 15,000 tonnes are standing out.
Euroland's
Gold-reserves are NOT for sale against dollars to be added to the
already obsolete, massive, dollar-exchange-reserves. China, Russia
are
mining the Gold for themselves and South Africa, Canada, Australia
can
only sell Gold, profitable, as long as their currencies keep on
declining against the dollar.

AX: I DON'T DISAGREE WITH MUCH OF WHAT YOU SAY BUT
WE KNOW FOR INSTANCE THAT SWITZERLAND,
LOCATED IN THE HEART OF EUROPE, IS SELLING A%OF
THEIR CENTRAL RESERVE BANK GOLD.

WHY COULDN'T THE U.S. TREASURY BUY THIS GOLD?

( NOT TO MENTION THE GOLD PRODUCED BY THE
MINES LOCATED WITHIN THE U.S. REGARDLESS OF
OWNERSHIP, GOLD FROM GOLD BULLION DEALERS
WITHIN THE U.S. AND FROM ANYONE OR ANY
ENTITY WHICH WISHED TO SELL - LIKE ALL THOSE
COMMERCIALS ON THE COMEX WHO ARE SUPPOSED
TO BE SHORT GOLD - WHY NOT BUY FROM THEM? )

I FRANKLY DO NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT ALL THIS
PROBLEM IS FOR THE U.S. TREASURY TO BUY GOLD
JUST LIKE CHINA IS DOING FOR HER CENTRAL BANK.


Belgian you write:

Any "Gold-buy" by the US would make its dollar *WEAKER* in Gold
(POG-rise=more dollars per ounce). And you certainly know what will
happen (is happening) when the dollar goes down !
THE GOLD BALL IS NOT IN THE DOLLAR CAMP...anymore !
The US has been losing the bulk of its Goldreserves up to 1971
(28,000 tonnes > 8,160 tonnes). The dollar went for the oil and is doing the
same thing today in a last gigantic effort to have its reserve-currency
backed with a portion of real wealth (confiscated ME-SA-oil).

AX: AGAIN, A LOT OF TRUTH HERE BUT : HOW DOES THAT
PRECLUDE THE U.S FROM REPLACING ITS TREASURY
GOLD RESERVES? THE FACT THAT THE U.S. GOLD
RESERVES DROPPED SO MUCH OVER THE YEARS
IS JUST THAT MUCH MORE REASON FOR THE U.S. TO
WANT TO REPLENISH IT.

ADDING GOLD TO THE U.S. TREASURY WOULD NOT
WEAKEN THE USD. THIS I STRONGLY DISAGREE WITH.

IT MAY ADD TO THE PERCEPTION OF WEAKNESS -
MAKE IT LOOK LIKE IT IS WEAK - BUT IN FACT IT WILL
BE ( THE USD WILL BE ) ON ITS WAY BACK TO GETTING
STRONGER.

WE ARE INTERESTED HERE IN TRUE STRENTH - NOT
THE APPEARANCE OF STRENGTH AS WAS THE
CONCEPT OF FORMER TREASURY SECRETARY
LARRY SUMMERS AS EXPOUNDED IN HIS 1995
HARVARD PAPER.

ESPECIALLY SINCE THE U.S. WOULD WISH TO MAINTAIN
ITS STATUS OF HAVING THE WORLD'S NUMBER ONE
RESERVE CURRENCY. PART OF THE STRENGTH OF THE
EURO IS THAT IT IS SO MUCH BACKED BY GOLD. SO-
WHY CAN'T THE U.S.MARK TO MARKET IS RESERVE
GOLD TONNAGE - ADD TO IT SUBSTANTIALLY - AND
HAVE A MUCH MORE STABLE CURRENCY?

Belgian you write:

A new rumor is launched that the ME wishes Saddam to step down if
the US
should start the attack on Iraq !? The sacrificial lamb theory
(speculation). POO is on its eleventh day out of the 22$-28$ range.
Saudi taps should open after 9 days ? Yes, the *supply* of oil will
never be a problem...only the worthless $-currency that is paid for it !
The great broken promiss. Let's price Gold correctly and open the oil-taps for abundant cheap flow. Non Arabian oil-producers (South American) will re-think the dollar's intrinsic worth, again and again up
until they understand and make Another choice.

AX: YES, MUCH TO AGREE WITH. BUT - YET AND STILL
IT DOES NOT NEGATE THE CONCEPT THAT THE U.S.
TREASURY SHOULD BACK ITS CURRENCY WITH MORE
GOLD.

AS FOR OIL, THERE ARE MANY WAYS FOR THE U.S.
TO ARRANGE FOR MORE IMPORTATION AND DOMESTIC
PRODUCTION OF OIL SHOULD CIRCUMSTANCES
WARRENT IT. REMEMBER, IT WAS JUST A FEW YEARS
AGO THAT THERE WAS A GLUT OF OIL IN THE WORLD,
AS THE PRICE OF OIL WAS TRENDING TOWARD $10/BAR
I REALIZE THAT THE PICTURE HAS CHANGED
SUBSTANTIALLY, BUT - AS THINGS DEVELOP - EVEN
AS YOU YOURSELF ASSIGN MOTIVES FOR A MOVE IN
THE MIDDLE EAST, YOU ARE IN FACT DRAWING A
PICTURE WHEREIN THE U.S. WILL HAVE AS MUCH
OIL AS IT WANTS.

BUT FOR STABILIZING THE ECONOMY AND THE DOLLAR
IT IS BEST TO UTILIZE GOLD AS THE UNIVERSAL AND
HISTORICAL COMMODITY OF CURRENCY REFERENCE.

IN SHORT - THE U.S. TREASURY NEEDS TO BOOST
IT 8K TON RESERVES OF GOLD CLOSER TO THE
VALUES OF 28 K TON TO WHICH YOU REFER FROM
PERIODS OF TIME EARLIER IN THE 20 TH CENTURY.

SINCERELY,

AX

TownCrier (01/12/03; 17:20:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 94228)
Maybe this version is structured more clearly
In January 1997 the LBMA first started releasing for public consumption its gold clearing statistics.

R.

TownCrier (01/12/03; 16:53:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 94227)
goldenboy -- the meaning of the LBMA going public
I'm just now tuning in again after a break and haven't yet read Belgian's comments to which you refer. However, given the nature of the thing, any mention of the LBMA "going public" can almost certainly refer to only one thing:

It was the decision that, beginning in January 1997, the LBMA first started releasing its clearing statistics for public consumption -- the shear volume of which boggled many minds in and out of the industry. (1,000 tonnes gold/day)

Randy

trickyt (01/12/03; 16:52:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 94226)
US Debt rises from $58 to $24'630 per person, gold $58 to $ 350
US Govt Debt per ounce of gold is 420 times the 1939 figure of $58 of debt for every ounce. Today the figure , $24'630 per ounce.

At the same time the price of gold has risen from $34.42 to $350.50 What would you rather have? The debt or the gold?

Some facts:
US Government Debt 2003: $6,382,650,489,675. (6 trillion)
US Government Gold Reserves 2003: 262 million ounces.
Debt per ounce of gold reserves: $24'630

US Government Debt 1948: $40,439,532,411. (40 billion)
US Government Gold Reserves 1948: 697 million ounces.
Debt per ounce of Gold: $361

In 1939, the year the US Governement made gold illegal for US citizens to buy gold, the debt per ouce of gold reserves was $58. (the debt was then $40 billion, but ballooned due to the war effort). After Gold became illegal US citizens were effectively forced to take debt.

So, in the last 63 years the debt per ounce of gold has risen from $58 to $24'630.

At the same time the price of gold has risen from $34.42 to $351.50. What would you rather have? The debt or the gold? I know which I will take.....



goldenboy (01/12/03; 16:26:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 94225)
Belgian: What exactly do you mean by the LBMA has gone
public?

Christian (01/12/03; 16:19:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 94224)
Physical Free Gold Market Within The Euro>
> will never happen. It will never happen here either. Gold is not an acceptible form of payment. But it will be an acceptible way for savings (storehouse for labor). There are a few banks here, but many more in Europe, who accept gold as savings, and the interest and principal is paid in gold when withdrawn. (Read the GOFRA terms) Banks can and it is legal to use that gold that was deposited just like money is in a savings account to loan it out to themselves and use the deposit to make reserve banking loans. The whole idea is to get people to produce wealth in their economic endeavors, and trade that wealth for worthless paper. The credit creation reserve banking conspiracy is really a cons-PIRACY to get you wealth (work) exchanged for worthless non-redeemable notes.

Belgian (01/12/03; 15:56:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 94223)
The US-dollar > The Globe's reserve - currency !
All currencies in the world are backed by the US$-exchange-reserves in their respective National Banks. Strong or weak currencies have much to do with the management of their dollar-reseves. Part of what is to be understood under monetary-policy. Quite normal in normal times. BUT...

It is the USA-dollar-printer that is now ruling on the value-exchange-rate of all those world CB-dollar-reserves.
The USA says what your dollar-reserves are worth and is consequently dictating the exchange rate of all those currencies. All currencies have become *dollar-derivatives*.
All currencies lost the major part of their autonomy !

Next to the globe's CB-dollar-reserves, there is some Gold-exchange-reserve in the vault of their National Banks.
This Gold is valued by the LBMA paper-contract monster.
Independant States lost valuation-autonomy on their Gold-exchange reserves. That's why many preferred to add dollar-confetti to their reserves, rather than Gold as a reserve.

But now we see that China, Russia, openly publicize that they are adding Gold to their reserves. No statistics about the ME-states for very obvious reasons of course ! India is as evident as can be on the whole Gold-matter and already have their physical-only market for ages !

Now there is that euro-currency that is ***suddenly*** marking its Gold-reserves to market ! No more Gold book-keeping at out of date "fixed" prices for Gold. This behind a terrible smoke-screen of "controlled" Gold-sales in complete UN-transparancy ! And suddenly the former secretive "LBMA" goes right into the public light !

Nobody is connecting all these dots, except our Mentors !
Everybody remains embedded in the "commodity" matrix of Gold and refuses to look at CB-Gold as a wealth-asset. With the exception of Gold-Giants (oil and other) who know the dollar through and through.

China, at present positioning itself as the fifth biggest power, just behind France, opens its market for physical Gold trade. Shangai and Dubai go the India-way. Euro architects travel discretely on euro-concept, counselling !

All those existing dollars (reserves and other) can't rush into Gold ALL AT ONCE ! It is the building and existance of the paper-Gold-market that is concepted for Gold-Substitution. But this Physical Gold-Breaker has a timeline as we all, unfortunately, have. The announcement that paper-gold has reached its end is evidenced by the sudden and inexplicable going public of the LBMA. The Rotshields lost their privilege of arbitting oil and gold trade ! The ECB/BIS, euro-builders, took over ! *Halt* to the almighty financial brotherhood. Don't call any Rotshield for confirmation on this (smile).

The "Haute Finance" doesn't talk to politicians !

Galerider (01/12/03; 15:53:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 94222)
THE JAPANESE SOLUTION
Here we go again. March is coming around again when all the comapnies call in their profits from around the world and "balance the books". Will the Japanese financial gurus make the banks account for bad loans? Will 2003 likely be the year that the government gets Japan's financial house in order? Don't think so. Latest proposal by the Liberal Democratic party? Raise the consumption tax. Squeeze Joe and Jane Nippon some more with some more taxes. It will put trillions of yen into the government coffers they say. So they can spend some more money bailing out zombie comanies that are already dead financially and sponsor building of corporate highrises that won't rent space in an already tight real estate market, build roads that go to nowhere, and build toll roads that are so expensive you can travel for about twenty minutes on it before you see another car coming in the opposite direction. What a joke we are becoming. Things are getting bad. Added to my modest gold pile in anticipation of being tossed on the NIPPON bonepile!

Belgian (01/12/03; 15:14:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 94221)
@ PH in LA # 94192 - Questions
Physical Only Gold Market in euro :I have been asking this question to many authorities (politicians and central bankers) : Absolute silence AND NOT ONE SINGLE REPLY of any kind ! Since I'm not an authority and have no inside knowledge...I can't give you any "concrete" answers.

This "absolute" silence is one of my major "indications" strengthening the growing pile of other indications.
Euroland, at present, is working hard (Dehaene and Giscard d'Estaing and an Italian) on more political convergence and a constitution.

Top national central bankers + ECB + BIS are locked into a complete isolated ivory tower. No way to have a look at the inside from outside the bunker (blockhouse).

Therefore, most of our indications are derived from intelligent thinking and close observation of political maneuvering.
It is A/FOA who have been studying this market thoroughly and its history as well. Their cryptic language is hiding much more than our comprehension goes.

As Eurolanders, we all had US$-bonds in portfolio. As individuals we acted as CBs and took the dollar-exchange-reserve as the mother of all derivatives in our financial planning. Euroland had to foresee an escape-route for getting rid of all those paper-dollar-assets for its citizens and CB-dollar-reserves.

It is impossible to arrange for a total (all at once) stampede out of those dollar-assets into euro and Gold.
This gives us an indication that the timing of the physical-only market is not a sinecure (easy job). How can one possibly answer how far away, this physical only market is ?

Even ordinarry euro-bankers do not understand why the ECB is is calculating the open Gold value, quarter by quarter.
Are you going to tell them that the ECB/BIS is planning to destroy the dollar-paper-goldcontract market (LBMA) ?
Listen very carefully to Duisenberg when he answers questions and guess the direction of his euro-"intentions".

The euro-builders want to postpone the "parabolic collapse" of the dollar as to make it happen at the most convenient moment. In the mean time, more destructive weight is added to the dollar-paper-gold-contract-market. The hangman's rope ! "OUR" euro and Euroland's "WEALTH"...brand new terminology towards the public.

Some financial media, still unaware of the euro-concept, are questioning Gold's recent moves with an air of suspicion. Please do not forget Sir that the process of "infantilization" of the general public is in its high days and increasing in Euroland as it is in the USA. And I am part of that public without any privileges and consequently without concrete answers for myself.

We all are restricted to indications alone and finetuning of their interpretations.

What will central banks do with their dollar-exhange-reserves, when BernankeSpan, command the dollar-printing presses ? All this globe's currencies are backed by CB-dollar-exchange-reserves. Al CBs have some Gold-Wealth left as a tangible exchange reserve next to the growing stashes of dollar-paper. But it is only the ECB that is quarterly valuing her Gold-reserves and at the same time the other Gold-exchange reserves that remained in the national banks of EMU-members! This is no secret. And every bank in Euroland sells Physical Gold for euro to its clients.
Those same banks stopped selling (completely) physical silver and platinum.

Another strong indication is that those same banks had a certain period (1990-1995) where they encouraged to take (buy) Gold-Certificates instead of the classic Physical insurance. In this same period the a VAT was imposed on physical sales and was immidiately withdrown ! In other words, CBs got directives from their CBs to encourage paper Gold-certificates to avoid the VAT on the physical and later on the Physical Gold trade was encouraged again with the withdrawel of the VAT on it !

Euroland already had a physical-only market in mind. Euroland wants to get rid or compensate for "all" dollar currency-paper. That was an early indication in a time when I was still green behind my ears about the eventual growing concept.

Those early paper Gold-certificates (1990) were an indication that the ECU ( euro-later ) wanted to "inflate" the paper-gold-contract market as when full force with the infamous Gold-sales and following WA (re-distributions).

The euro-gold-concept is already an old plan. I'm a bit late in having discovered it thanks to CPM / FOA, here. But have been digging in my memory to recapitulate and "understand" all memorized Gold history.

Maybe it is because other countries (China/Russia/ME) are a bit late in copying the euro-concept, that this physical-only market isn't yet operational. Who knows what other reasons there might be for eventual delays ?

Why do you think the US (FED) succeeded in pulling away some Gold-exchange-reserves from a particular set of countries ? Now these poor states are in the incapacity of playing the euro-gold-concept and have to stick to their dollar-exchange-reserves valued by the printer of those dollars, the US of A. Quite some formidable indication here.

Why were (!!!) the major anglo-saxon goldminers so eager to sell forward underground gold ! Forget about their economical explanations ! They knew WHY and only some very specific entities co-operated for not so obvious reasons.

Yes PH in LA, a gigantic jigsaw...far from being completed with a very visible picture. Patience dear fellow Goldmeister...it will surely come ! Think hard and deep and don't get fooled because we don't have black on white evidence.



ElGordo (01/12/03; 14:45:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 94220)
The icy wind of the coming storm
London, Jan. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Nauman Barakat, head of the oil trading desk at Fimat International Banque SA in London, comments on a decision by OPEC to raise output quotas by 1.5 million barrels a day to replace shortages left by a strike in Venezuela.

``Assuming we lost about 2 million barrels a day from Venezuela as a result of the strike and assuming that OPEC produces an extra 1.5 million barrels, which is in itself a big stretch, it still means we have a shortfall of 500,000 barrels. The market will remain very tight.''

``The market is going to look at this tomorrow and its reaction will be that this agreement, as far as putting an extra 1.5 million barrels, is not really credible. It includes a pro rata increase for Venezuela, which clearly can't produce anything more than what they're producing now, and a lot of other countries'' are already producing at capacity.

``I would be surprised if the real barrels into the market would be anything more than 1 million barrels. That gives us 1 million barrels less than before the Venezuelan strike. Then if you add Iraq on top of it, assuming that the U.S. does attack Iraq and the Venezuelan strike is still on at that point, OPEC is in dire straits.''
________________
OPEC is in the drivers seat- WE- the world-are in dire straits.
If Venezuela stays in chaos, this could be the beginning of that
infamous storm.

Kagalaska (01/12/03; 14:37:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 94219)
The winds of change are blowing.
Trojan- Well put together post(#94215).I agree, but, with this thought I believe the time line(5 or more years) will
not be that long 2-3 at most.

If there must be trouble let it be in my day,that my child may have peace.- Thomas Paine 1737-1809

misetich (01/12/03; 14:34:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 94218)
THE 'GOLD CAP' DISEMBOWELMENT OF AMERICA
http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_02/smithf080702.html
Trojan - thanks for the link

The US has enjoyed tremendous advantages through the strong US $ "policy" - by sucking up most of the world investments - however as Rubin stated a two years or so ago in an interview - "we are in uncharted territory" as the bubble burst -

The financial system is in the middle of the " Perfect Financial Storm " - those in the know - have/are positioning themselves to protect themselves - through the accumulation of GOLD

Who has/is accumulating this 16,000 tons of Central Banks leased -( which in turn has been sold by speculators, bullion banks and through hedging programs by miners )- gold

Lets FOLLOW THE MONEY! real money - GOLD

Here's an extract by Richard Russell's January 10, 2003 issue -Dow Theory- on gold

Quote

The reason, gold is the only money that has held its value over the course of history. Gold represents permanent wealth. This has occurred in the face of the fact that every paper currency in history has ultimately sunk to worthlessness.
.........

Get used to it -- there's a huge contingent who have a vested interest in gold going nowhere. They possess loud voices, but they're losers. They're losers because they're on the wrong side of the truth.

..........
End of quote

http://www.dowtheoryletters.com/dtlol.nsf

Got gold?







ElGordo (01/12/03; 14:31:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 94217)
USA Today article
Tough times good for gold
Most investments fell in 2002; tangible assets soared

By SANDRA BLOCK
USA Today
01/12/2003

When the going gets tough, gold gets going.

In 2002, a year when nearly every other type of investment tanked, gold funds rose an average 62.9 percent. The year's boisterous performance boosted average five-year returns to 52.2 percent, vs. a decline of 1 percent for the average stock fund.

Several events conspired to make 2002 a great year for gold. Among them:

• Fear. Gold does well during periods of uncertainty. Nervous investors lose faith in paper currency, which is only as good as the government behind it, and stash their money in tangible assets, such as gold. A potential war with Iraq, nuclear warnings from North Korea and continued threats of terrorism made gold a popular haven in 2002.

• A weakened dollar. The falling stock market, sluggish economy and rising oil prices depressed the value of the U.S. dollar in 2002. Gold typically rises when the U.S. dollar weakens, says Mark Johnson, manager of USAA Precious Metals and Minerals Fund.

• Low prices. Gold is trading for about $350 an ounce, up 25 percent from a year ago. But gold prices are still down from 1996, when gold traded for up to $400, says Caesar Bryan, manager of Gabelli Gold Fund. In the 1990s, gold went through a "dreadful bear market," Bryan says. "The last year and a half was really a bounce off a pretty depressed low."

Gold fund managers say the factors that made their funds shine in 2002 haven't changed. War with Iraq still looms. A larger federal budget deficit could further weaken the dollar.

"We've got a good chance of making more money in 2003, largely because of what's happening with the dollar," Johnson says.

Moreover, stocks of gold-mining companies, a staple of gold fund portfolios, are still relatively cheap compared with the price of gold, says Bryan.

Even gold fund managers say gold funds should account for just a small portion of your portfolio - typically no more than 5 percent. One reason: Gold tends to move in the opposite direction of the stock market.

That makes gold funds a good hedge against stock-market downturns. But if the market recovers, your gold fund could lose its luster in a hurry.

ElGordo (01/12/03; 14:24:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 94216)
Too little too late
OPEC members agreed Sunday to boost the cartel's oil production target by 6.5 percent to cover a shortfall in crude exports from Venezuela.

The increase of 1.5 million barrels a day would take effect on Feb. 1, OPEC President Abdullah bin Hamad Al Attiyah told a news conference.

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries announced the increase in the hope of calming fears of a supply crunch caused by an ongoing strike in Venezuela. The strike, launched Dec. 2 by political opponents seeking to oust President Hugo Chavez, has slashed the country's exports by about 2 million barrels a day. Venezuela, a major supplier to the United States, is normally the world's fifth-largest oil producer and the third largest in OPEC.
_______
Not enough if Venezuela stays out


Trojan (01/12/03; 14:02:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 94215)
Slingshot and other thoughts...
Slingshot: Thank you for reading the Article.

I agree that it seems "They Would Never Do That" logic BUT I really think that THIS TIME we have WORLD HISTORY in the making.

Christian: Have you read the Article ? It seems to go along with your thinking.

Now back to my WORLD HISTORY Point.

Many World Events are NOW all coming together.

Some Main Points:

(1) About 1913 I think, the Federal Reserve gets Control of the MONEY Supply. (It is created)

(2) The Wars START (WW1 WW2 Etc)

(3) The GREAT (IMHO) JFK figures it out. He actually had a Executive Order ready to disolve the FED.

(4) The Private FED is NOT Legal according to the USA Constitution.

(4) JFK is Murdered. (1963)

(5) Nixon Unties Gold Standard Re: $35 Price. (1971)

(6) Jimmy Carter Elected (1976) Iran Hostage Crisis, Interest Rates over 20 %

(7) Ronald Reagan Elected (1980 To 1988) The Cold War ends and NOW with Russia NO LONGER a Force to Counterbalance The USA, the FORCES OF REAL EVIL as compared to the Axis Of Evil start their END Game.

(8) This STARTS with the Election Of Bush SR in 1988.

(9) In comes the BOYS, Rumsfield, Cheney and the Others who are the Close Associates of Bush Sr.

(10) Bush Sr Attacks Iraq. (1991) (This starts the Terrorists going. (Bin Laden and others)

(11) Clinton is Elected (1992-2000) It was the ECONOMY Stupid.

(12) Greenspan is running the show now with No Controls on him. Greenspan has ALL the Tools he needs including The Monetary Control Act Of 1980 which allows the FED to buy Stocks.

(13) As Frank Smith's article points out The Plan Re: Gold suppression starts in 1995.

A pause here now in my Main Points, to summarize what I think is occuring. I'll tie up all my points in the end of this post but first I want to make a point about Clinton. Clinton bought into Greenspan's Gold Plan with Rubin and the Strong US Dollar Policy. Clinton was IMO not Evil but Sleazy. He wanted Fame, Fortune and Good Hummers :-) However whatever he wanted played into the Real Plan that was HATCHING.
Now ON TO 2000. A NEW MILLENEUM. A NEW HISTORY. A NEW WORLD ORDER. Here is how it STARTS to ALL Tie together.

(14) Bush JR is Elected (2000) We ALL know how that went. 5 Weeks to Decide who Won. Finally the Supremes decide. (That's NOT Diana Ross and the Supremes.)

(15) GUESS WHAT... They Are Back BUT NOW WITH INCREDIBLE WEALTH AND POWER. Who are They ? Think about it. Rumsfield, Cheney and the Others. (BUt NO Russia to Block them) (No Gold Rising To Block them)
(Don't forget Greenie)

(16) Here comes Bin Laden (2001) Remember my Point about Iraq, Bush Sr and Terrorism. ( Point 10)

(17) Wait Bin Who ? NAH forget him. It's Saddam, Stupid. Here we Go. Bush Wants War. Rumsfield Wants War. Cheney wants War. Some for different reasons.
Bush Jr "Saddam tried to Kil my Daddy you know"

(18) The USA Economy is a Disaster. Pension Funds Not Funded by Corporations. Fraud Accounting in Government and Corporate America. The USA Manufacturing Base Destroyed. USA Consummer Debt Astronomical. USA Government Debt Astronomical. Derivatives in the Trillions ready to Explode. The Stock Market Crash is NOT Over. The Real Estate Crash has NOT even Started. The Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac Game will BLOW UP. The USA is DEPEPENDENT on the WORLD to Fund Them. The WORLD has Changed. The WORLD Does NOT Love the USA Anymore.

OK, Time for my Summary. Most of what I have pointed out so far is Fact. Just the Facts, Maam, Just the Facts. (Joe Friday) :-)

Here is WHY I say WORLD HISTORY is *About to Change.
*About could take up to 5 Years or more to Play Out.

I believe in God. If there is NO GOD, What's the Point. Let's not get into Religion BUT I wanted to make that point RE: Justice in the Final Analysis.

We all Know what Happened to the Roman Empire and ALL the other Empires.

Since we are leaving God out of this let's instead call Gold our God. (For purposes of making my point)

In the End GOLD has Always Proven to be the ONLY true Store of Value. So it will this time.

When the War Starts and it Will. When the Real Actionable War Anger, Starts against the USA, The USA Stock Market WILL CRASH. THe USA Dollar Will Crash. The Economy will CRASH. The World according to the USA will change and so will WORLD HISTORY.

No NOT Through Armies and the BOMB.

Gold Will Win. The World is different now. The Internet STOPS Censorship. To the People who Need to Know. The Arabs Know. The Muslims Know. The Japanese Know. The Chinese Know. Any Real ENEMY of the USA knows.

What do they know ?

How to Win the WAR.

Through Gold. The Gold Dinar. The Oil Dinar. Gold Itself. No USA Dollar Controlling the World.

Then you Will have WORLD HISTORY.

I am a Canadian Citizen BUT do NOT Despair Great USA Brothers and Sisters.

The Fed will be DISMANTLED. The FRAUDS will End.
A New President will appear to lead the USA on the way back to the Great Nation it once was.

There will be WORLD HISTORY made. I don't know it's next Form but it will HAPPEN.

History itself SAYS it will.

That's the way I see it.

Agree or Disagree ?






Zhisheng (01/12/03; 13:00:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 94214)
Sierra Madre's Sunday Reflections (94198)
The thesis is that Central Banks will move away from dollar denominated assets so that they may be less subject to actions of the US Federal Reserve, which System technically pretty much controls the path of the dollar.

This seems to rely on the hypothesis that Central Banks truly represent national interest, which may or may not be the case. Recent sales of gold reserves by Central Banks at low prices certainly do not seem to be in their respective national interests.

It may be that Central Banks are more subject to the will of financial powers whose interests are more international in scope than national. In that case, a turning away from the dollar would perhaps occur at the connivance of the Fed (or rather the powers to whose influence it is subject, in common with other Central Banks).

In either case however, if we can rely on recent remarks by Greenspan and Bernanke, the dollar looks now to become weaker, and gold stronger.

TownCrier (01/12/03; 12:52:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 94213)
PH in LA, China's new physical market
http://www.usagold.com/wgc.html
This should help you regarding your questions to Belgium, "Are there actually plans for a physical-only market on the books at this time? ... Can you point us at anybody else talking about such a thing?" and etc...

At the above link you will find these entries:

7 October, 2002 - 11 October, 2002
The tax issues that have delayed the opening of the Shanghai Gold Exchange are expected to be resolved this month, allowing formal trade to begin, marking a major step in the liberalisation of the Chinese precious metals market.

14 October, 2002 - 18 October, 2002
Official sources have confirmed that the Shanghai Gold Exchange will open for trading on 30th October, following clarification of the VAT rules on gold trading. The Exchange opened on Wednesday for an initial trial period and the first trade to be logged was a 3kg purchase by the Beijing Caishikou Department Store.

21 October, 2002 - 25 October, 2002
Physical gold trading on the Shanghai Gold Exchange is due to launch on Wednesday [Oct 30]. For the time being membership remains limited to 108 domestic entities of which 56% are end-users and 12% are banks and other financial institutions, according to a report from Reuters quoting exchange official Mr. Yin Po. The opening of the exchange will be the first big step on the road to ending more than 50 years of absolute control. Settlement will be in physical metal (the only other exchange to trade solely in physical is that in Istanbul).

Opening the Exchange means that the People's Bank of China will no longer be the sole fixer of the local price, nor the sole purchaser of domestic mine output. Price discovery will fall to the exchange and be likely therefore to run closely in line with international prices and local production will be sold on the exchange.


25 November, 2002 - 29 November, 2002
Friday completed the first month of trading on the Shanghai Gold Exchange. The market turnover has averaged between 300kg and 400kg a day of bars of purity either 99.95% or 99.99%, in a ratio by volume of roughly 3:1, although the volumes in the four nines bars is increasing. This equates to between 66 and 88 tonnes per annum and compares with local mine production of 173t (2001; GFMS estimate). Not all the country's locally mined gold is yet traded through the exchange as it is not all refined in the accepted refineries. The market only trades spot, not forwards or futures.

9 December, 2002 - 13 December, 2002
An official at the Shanghai Gold Exchange has said that, subject to approval by the People's Bank of China, the Exchange may allow trading by individuals as early as next year.

Christian (01/12/03; 12:18:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 94212)
DAS KAPITAL- - - Bankers Manifesto
"Capital must protect itself inevery way through combination and through legislation. Debts must be collected and loans and mortgages foreclosed as soon as possible. When through a process of law the common people have lost their homes, they will be more tractable and more easily governed by the strong arm of the law, applied by the central power of wealth, under control of leading financiers. People without homes will not quarrel with their leaders. This is well known among our principle men now engaged in forming an imperialism of capital to govern the world. By dividing the people we can get them to expend their energies in fighting over questions ofno importance to us except as teachers of the common herd. Thus by discreet action we can secure for ourselves what has been generally planned and successfully accomplished." -- All made possible by credit creation gold using the banking reserve process. It was Roosevelt who gave the government of the United States over to the invisible government. Money is power, and by getting the money (gold conviscation) the invisible government got the poweer to creat credit out of credit creation gold using the reserve banking process. Gold conviscation will happen again because Capital (Kapital) must protect itself. There is a reason why COMEX trades are mostly paper gold nothings. GOFRA= gold forward rate agreement, used as a hedging instrument by metal producers and BANKSTERS makes possible the off balance sheet accounting by restricting payment of gold debt (principal and interest) be paid in gold only.

slingshot (01/12/03; 12:15:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 94211)
Trojan
Msg#94205
After reading the article.

What started as Calm Advise will soon turn to Frantic Warnings. If the truth is so bizarre who will believe you.
Bizarre as to, They would never do that.

When in Danger. When in Doubt. Run in Circles. Scream and Shout. (New World Order Advise)
Slingshot---------------<>

erayboy (01/12/03; 12:11:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 94210)
Zoran's EW Update - Wave 3 DOWN - Maybe This Week
http://csf.colorado.edu/forums/longwaves/2003/pdf00001.pdf
The SP500 may complete the current action and head south ... forcefully ... perhaps as soon as a few days.

And, we have a Full Moon on Saturday. Buckle up ...

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (01/12/03; 12:01:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 94209)
175 pages... in bookstores for $14.95. Buy directly for only $5.95
http://www.usagold.com/cpm/abcs.html

"Without waxing philosophical, a few words are helpful concerning the mind-set with which you pursue your interest in gold ownership. Some enter the gold market to make a profit, others to hedge disaster, some to accomplish both. No matter into which category you fit, make sure you understand why you are going into the gold market. Convey that understanding to the individual with whom you are structuring your gold portfolio. The whys have quite a bit to do with what you end up owning.

"Frequently investors will say that any kind of gold will do because after all gold is gold, isn't it? This type of attitude has helped a great many coin shop owners unload unwanted inventory they hadn't been able to get rid of for years. This is probably a good deal for the coin dealer, but it could spell disaster for you. In the same vein, I have talked to hundreds, probably thousands, of investors in nearly a quarter century in the business. Quite often, potential investors have no more reason for buying gold than 'everybody else is doing it.'

"In Chapter 16 on portfolio planning, you will find some details on this important subject. For now, consider the inscription over the entrance to the temple of the ancient Delphic Oracle: 'Know Thyself.' Study. Read. Learn what's going on around you. Call a few gold firms and ask questions. There's nothing like conversation to stimulate thinking. Take time to lay a little groundwork. Then make your move. The political and economic situation being what it is, there is no better time to start than now. Know thyself -- your goals and needs -- and you will be a more confident, happier gold investor." (more)

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Wednesday February 8
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