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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/12/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Blackjack (09/12/02; 23:59:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 85025)
BBC link to China deflation article
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2254935.stm
Forgot to post link.

Blackjack (09/12/02; 23:57:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 85024)
Japanese style deflation hitting China?
Growing joblessness and the fear of insecurity is pushing the Chinese to save rather than spending, a trait that risks pushing the country into deflation.

The latest evidence of the trend - especially worrying because of nieghbouring Japan's decade-long deflationary spiral - came on Friday with official statistics showing prices fell 0.7% in August.

The decline was slower than in July, when prices fell 0.9%.

But even so, the concern is that despite reforms including privatisation intended to make Chinese companies more competitive, they are failing to make products that people actually want to buy.

Spend or save

Ten months on since the headline figures last showed prices rising in China, the decline is being fed by consumer goods such as mobile phones, which have experienced breakneck sales in recent years.

Mobile prices are down 16.4% over the year to August, the Chinese state statistical bureau said, while car and vehicle prices fell 5.3%.

Economic growth has been rapid despite the slowdown in the rest of the world.

Now, though, increasing levels of unemployment as the government privatises swathes of Chinese industry mean that many workers are putting their own security above immediate consumption.

Besides rampant job-cutting, China's "capitalist socialism" is pushing up the cost of healthcare and schooling, adding to the imperative to tighten belts.

The result is household savings up 18% in August over the previous year to $1 trillion.
_____________________
I bet some of that household saving in China will take the
form of Gold and Silver.

Silver Market Opening:

http://cnniw.yellowbrix.com/pages/cnniw/Story.nsp?story_id=32846946&ID=cnniw&scategory=Metals+%26+Minerals%3APrecious&



Blackjack (09/12/02; 23:44:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 85023)
Downunder : Checked those posts
You are right, there has been a political debate going on.

I checked the other posts. I guess yours caught my eye
because of the length. I tend to gloss over political opinions
on whether to go to war or not.

Did not mean to single you out. People have their opinions
and few will change their positions because of a post here.

G'day

darkhorse (09/12/02; 23:40:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 85022)
@Sierra
I believe foreigners also hold, besides the equities and Gov't bonds, approximately 25% of CORPORATE bond issues.

Sierra Madre (09/12/02; 23:32:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 85021)
Here's something to keep you awake a while...
1. The U.S. is the world's greatest debtor nation, bar none.
2. Foreigners hold 40% (?) of U.S. Gov't marketable bonds.
3. They own a substantial percentage of stocks.
4. They are now reported to have begun bailing out of these investments - and I would suppose, this includes not only Arabs.
5. The U.S. current account deficit is headed for half a trillion dollars this year.
6. JPM Morgan/Chase has a great liability for gold loans or, gold derivatives. I am not great on statistics and the details, but GATA tells us that JPM/Chase can be history if the price of gold goes to $350.

Current account deficits imply a necessary devaluation.The devaluation required to correct the current account deficit, would have to be massive, which would raise the price of gold and kill JPM/Chase along with other large banks.

Other countries, faced with massive devaluation, have traditionally - and of course unsuccessfully - tried to avoid that devaluation by: exchange controls!

Gold is money, and would come under the foreign exchange controls, if implemented.

This might be a way out for the banks up to their ears in gold debts, because the exchange controls would give them a reason to - stop payment: "We can't deliver the gold because we have exchange controls". And thus, save their hides.

Does this make sense? I think it's time we thought about exchange controls as something looming out there.

Sleep well.

Sierra


DOWNUNDER (09/12/02; 23:29:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 85020)
Sierra Madre - - - Your 85016 -- I CONCUR
Well put --No personal thoughts re approval or disapproval.
To make this work it has to be seconded by the management & that would take care of the problem.

Blackjack (09/12/02; 23:28:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 85019)
Sierra thanks for your comments
Black Blade: I have also heard the remarks about oil not
being as important to our "new" economy. Crazzy stuff.

If oil was not so important why would the Europeans be
creating their own new "strategic oil reserve"? Oil is what
its all about. Filling that new reserve will put more demand
pressure on the price. The world is starting to "top off" their
gas tanks for the uncertainties that are around the corner.

Black Blade (09/12/02; 23:27:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 85018)
The Barrick Hedge Debate Continues (response to a propaganda piece by a Barrick apologist
http://www.goldseek.com/cgi-bin/news/SpeculativeInvestor/1031891231.php

Snippit:

Although Dr Murenbeeld has attempted to show Barrick's hedge programme in a positive light, he briefly touches on two risks associated with the programme that, we think, are substantial. In fact, having read Dr Murenbeeld's study we would now be even less inclined to buy ABX than we already were (and that is really saying something). Before we discuss these risks, it is important to understand that almost all of Barrick's forward sales fall into the "spot deferred" category, which means that Barrick has the option of rolling forward the contracts rather than delivering into them. If, for example, Barrick's hedge programme calls for 3M ounces of gold to be delivered at a price of $340 in 2003 and the spot gold price at the time of delivery is $400, Barrick can choose to roll those contracts forward and sell the gold into the spot market. In this way they supposedly have the best of both worlds - they have the downside protection of a hedge book but have not limited their upside in the short-term. These "spot deferred" contracts can be rolled forward for up to 15 years.

One of the risks mentioned by Dr Murenbeeld - one that he quickly dismisses as not being important - is included at the bottom of page 16 of the study. Apparently, Barrick will not be able to defer delivery into its forward-sales contracts if "the counterparties are unable to acquire bullion in the open market or any organised exchange or to fund any such acquisition". In other words, if Barrick's counterparties (the bullion banks) are unable, for any reason, to borrow the gold needed to facilitate the forward sales contracts, the contracts cannot be rolled forward. So, if central banks decide to stop or cut back on their gold lending, Barrick will probably not have the option of rolling forward its contracts. This (central banks stopping or substantially curtailing their gold lending), in our opinion, is something that has a very high probability of happening within the next two years. In particular, as the US Dollar's bear market becomes more widely recognised the central banks or Europe will become less inclined to part with their gold.

The other risk worth noting is discussed on page 19 of Dr Murenbeeld's study. If Barrick decides to defer delivery on a particular contract, and assuming that Barrick's counterparties are able to borrow enough gold to enable the deferral to proceed in the first place (a big assumption), then the contract is re-priced based on the interest rates at the time of deferral. The risk is, if the gold interest rate (lease rate) happens to be higher than the US$ interest rate at that time then the re-priced forward-sales contract will have an exercise price that is less than both the previous contract price and the current spot price.


Black Blade: A good article that points out some glaring problems with the Barrick hedges. Worth looking over, the mega-hedgers have done much to harm the gold mining industry by helping to push the price of gold to low levels.



DOWNUNDER (09/12/02; 23:20:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 85017)
@BLACKJACK - - - ONE EYED VIEW ? Your post 85014
Blackjack the post to which you are referring came from an extremely well known Gold website & is TOTALLY relevant to everyone on this website. If the words of Bill Murphy & Ron Paul disturb you so much why not take it up with them? I object to your comments:

"It seems you want to rant and release your frustrations
in this forum. We are aware of all these facts"

Why I object is that you can't possibly be serious & you have NO CREDIBILITY when you didn't say boo to any of the "Lets go get em,rambo swagger posts that proceeded mine.
Everytime I have posted it is to balance the mindless drivel
that suggests a brainwashed soul.Enough.Posts in mind are:
85001 85998 84956 84927 --They were ok were they? Chill!

Sierra Madre (09/12/02; 23:06:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 85016)
Blackjack: well said, Sir, I accept the call to order as directed to me.

These are tense times, and we are prone to take the bait when we read things that upset us.

I move that any post relating to Iraq must refrain from expressing approval or disapproval.

War certainly affects the PMs! We can't avoid talking about that. But I think we should ALL refrain from expressing our opinion on such war, either favorable or unfavorable.

Sierra

Black Blade (09/12/02; 22:56:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 85015)
Another Dumb TV Debate

I have just watched a debate featuring an energy expert Daniel Yergin vs. a brain dead economist - Mark Zandi of Economy.com. It is truly amazing that there are dolts who keep putting this ridiculous argument forth that oil is now such a small and unimportant part of the economy a measured by GDP (these include Abby Jo Cohen among others). Yergin pinned this dweeb to the mat of course as he laid it all out. Hydrocarbons and all the by-products are used in every aspect of the economy. Remove a good part of the hydrocarbon supply and the effects are exponential rippling across the economy. Sure, by actual cost, oil is dirt cheap – it was "cheap oil" that has fueled the "rip snortin" economy of the 1980’ and 1990's. And it was higher oil and energy costs that sent this economy over the edge into a crushing recession where $7.7 trillion (so far) of investor wealth has vanished into the ether. Yergin correctly pointed out that the "New Economy" required more energy in spite of absurd claims that the "New Economy" made oil obsolete. Unfortunately ignoramuses like the economist just did not get it. Even Alan Greenspan has fallen for this "oil/energy is no longer important to the economy" argument. Why do these people think we are desperately trying to refill the Strategic Oil Reserve? Why do these people think we are so willing to go to war to free Kuwait and to reenter the Middle East to take on Iraq? It really is about "oil". As I said, life is getting a little bit more "interesting".

- Black Blade


Blackjack (09/12/02; 22:53:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 85014)
Downunder post info related to PMs
We all know you oppose US foreign policy. You don't like
Bush's foreign policy. I can't change the situation. Neither
can you. Policy makers in Wash don't read this forum to
decide whether to go to war or not.

It seems you want to rant and release your frustrations
in this forum. We are aware of all these facts.

Iraq is the US whipping boy. Remember when Bush was just
elected? The first couple days he was in office he suddenly
ordered a bombing wave over Iraq. The world was shocked.
No explanation or reason. He did it to send a message that
he was a "tough guy" and Bush II was not a "weak leader".

Who knows what is going on behind the scenes? Who knows
what he really knows about WMDs in Iraq?

Some PM investors might hope for a war, some do not.

You should find a political forum to post about foreign policy
issues. I come to this site to find info that relates to PMs.

DOWNUNDER (09/12/02; 22:34:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 85013)
FROM LE METROPOLE CAFE - - - RE GOLD & WAR
http://www.lemetropolecafe.com
JOHN WAYNE & RAMBO TYPES -PLEASE READ SLOWLY TO APPRECIATE

Comments are from :
(1) Bill Murphy well known advocate & champion for a free gold price.
(2)Congressman Ron Paul --Republican politician & honest broker --again for a free gold price.
------------------------------------------------------------
It was very painful for me to listen to President Bush's speech at the UN this morning. Here he is partly responsible for the deaths of 6,000 people a day in sub-Saharan Africa due to the suppressive AND repressive gold policy of his ESF and the rest of The Gold Cartel, yet he goes off on a 10 year old Iraq problem, but says nothing new about that problem.

All I could think of was Dr. Strangelove addressing the UN.

After dealing with 4 years worth of lies from The Gold Cartel about gold as GATA chairman, I cannot help but believe the real reason for all this Iraq war talk is because the U.S. economy and stock markets are disintegrating. Bush, Cheney, Lindsey, et all, know how bad things are and are hell-bent to get American minds off the economy and the Wall Street scandals with a pivotal election right around the corner.

I shall say no more on this one, angry as I am. Instead, I will pass the baton to a more eloquent spokesman on this subject, to Congressman Ron Paul. Congressman Paul is one of GATA's heroes and still has his Monetary Reform and Accountability Act in committee in the U.S. Congress. Paul's Bill cites GATA's evidence of gold price manipulation as one of the reasons for his proposal. It only requests that if the President or Treasury Secretary wish to deal in U.S. gold, that they get permission from Congress first. Secretary O’Neill is on the records as being opposed to this act. Now, there's a hypocrite.

Congressman Paul:

http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2002/tst090902.htm

The Case against War in Iraq

For weeks I have been arguing that Congress needs to debate the wisdom of a war in Iraq. Recently I gave a speech before the House of Representatives outlining why I believe such a war would be exceedingly unwise.

First, there are practical military reasons not to initiate a war in Iraq. Our military has been severely weakened over the last decade. Conservative estimates call for 200,000 troops to mount a successful invasion of Iraq. Placing 200,000 soldiers in Iraq- with hundreds of thousands already deployed around the globe - will further dilute our ability to defend our own shores.

Remember, we do not know exactly how long this conflict will last. It could be a six-day war, a six-month war, or six years. We ought to listen to the generals and other military experts, including Colin Powell, Brent Scowcroft, Anthony Zinni, and Norman Schwarzkopf, who are now advising us NOT to go to war. They understand that our troops have been spread too thin around the world, and it is dangerous from a purely military standpoint to go to war today.

There are economic reasons to avoid this war. We can do serious damage to our already faltering economy. An invasion of Iraq may well cost over a hundred billion dollars, especially when we cannot know the outcome or duration of the conflict. Our national debt is increasing at a rate of over $450 billion yearly, yet we are talking about spending a hundred billion dollars pursuing another nation-building adventure in Iraq. What will happen to the economy if oil skyrockets to $30 a barrel and lines form at gas stations? Will the current recession deepen? What will happen to the deficit? We must not kid ourselves about the economic ramifications.

There are clear philosophical reasons for those who believe in limited government to oppose this war. "War is the health of the state," as the saying goes. War necessarily means more power is given to the state. This additional power always results in a loss of liberty. Many of the worst government programs of the 20th century began during wartime "emergencies" and were never abolished. War and big government go hand in hand, but we should be striving for peace and freedom.

Finally, there is a compelling moral argument against war in Iraq. Military force is justified only in self-defense; naked aggression is the province of dictators and rogue states. This is the danger of a new "preemptive first strike" doctrine. America is the most moral nation on earth, founded on moral principles, and we must apply moral principles when deciding to use military force.

If we once again wage war without a clear declaration of war by Congress, as we have done on so many occasions since World War II, we further damage the Constitution. I fear we will engage our troops in a haphazard way, by executive order, or even by begging permission from the anti-American United Nations. This haphazard approach, combined with the lack of clearly defined goal for victory, makes it almost inevitable that true victory will not come. When Congress evades its responsibilities and allows war to be declared by the President or an international body, it ceases to represent the very people for whom the war supposedly will be fought.

Questions That Won't Be Asked About Iraq

by Rep. Ron Paul, MD

In the House of Representatives, September 10, 2002

Soon we hope to have hearings on the pending war with Iraq. I am concerned there are some questions that won't be asked – and maybe will not even be allowed to be asked. Here are some questions I would like answered by those who are urging us to start this war.

Is it not true that the reason we did not bomb the Soviet Union at the height of the Cold War was because we knew they could retaliate?
2. Is it not also true that we are willing to bomb Iraq now because we know it cannot retaliate – which just confirms that there is no real threat?

3. Is it not true that those who argue that even with inspections we cannot be sure that Hussein might be hiding weapons, at the same time imply that we can be more sure that weapons exist in the absence of inspections?

4. Is it not true that the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency was able to complete its yearly verification mission to Iraq just this year with Iraqi cooperation?

5. Is it not true that the intelligence community has been unable to develop a case tying Iraq to global terrorism at all, much less the attacks on the United States last year? Does anyone remember that 15 of the 19 hijackers came from Saudi Arabia and that none came from Iraq?

6. Was former CIA counter-terrorism chief Vincent Cannistraro wrong when he recently said there is no confirmed evidence of Iraq's links to terrorism?

7. Is it not true that the CIA has concluded there is no evidence that a Prague meeting between 9/11 hijacker Atta and Iraqi intelligence took place?

8. Is it not true that northern Iraq, where the administration claimed al-Qaeda were hiding out, is in the control of our "allies," the Kurds?

9. Is it not true that the vast majority of al-Qaeda leaders who escaped appear to have safely made their way to Pakistan, another of our so-called allies?

10. Has anyone noticed that Afghanistan is rapidly sinking into total chaos, with bombings and assassinations becoming daily occurrences; and that according to a recent UN report the al-Qaeda "is, by all accounts, alive and well and poised to strike again, how, when, and where it chooses"?

11. Why are we taking precious military and intelligence resources away from tracking down those who did attack the United States – and who may again attack the United States – and using them to invade countries that have not attacked the United States?

12. Would an attack on Iraq not just confirm the Arab world's worst suspicions about the US – and isn't this what bin Laden wanted?

13. How can Hussein be compared to Hitler when he has no navy or air force, and now has an army 1/5 the size of twelve years ago, which even then proved totally inept at defending the country?

14. Is it not true that the constitutional power to declare war is exclusively that of the Congress? Should presidents, contrary to the Constitution, allow Congress to concur only when pressured by public opinion? Are presidents permitted to rely on the UN for permission to go to war?

15. Are you aware of a Pentagon report studying charges that thousands of Kurds in one village were gassed by the Iraqis, which found no conclusive evidence that Iraq was responsible, that Iran occupied the very city involved, and that evidence indicated the type of gas used was more likely controlled by Iran not Iraq?

16. Is it not true that anywhere between 100,000 and 300,000 US soldiers have suffered from Persian Gulf War syndrome from the first Gulf War, and that thousands may have died?

17. Are we prepared for possibly thousands of American casualties in a war against a country that does not have the capacity to attack the United States?

18. Are we willing to bear the economic burden of a $100 billion war against Iraq, with oil prices expected to skyrocket and further rattle an already shaky American economy? How about an estimated 30 years occupation of Iraq that some have deemed necessary to "build democracy" there?

19. Iraq's alleged violations of UN resolutions are given as reason to initiate an attack, yet is it not true that hundreds of UN Resolutions have been ignored by various countries without penalty?

20. Did former President Bush not cite the UN Resolution of 1990 as the reason he could not march into Baghdad, while supporters of a new attack assert that it is the very reason we can march into Baghdad?

21. Is it not true that, contrary to current claims, the no-fly zones were set up by Britain and the United States without specific approval from the United Nations?

22. If we claim membership in the international community and conform to its rules only when it pleases us, does this not serve to undermine our position, directing animosity toward us by both friend and foe?

23. How can our declared goal of bringing democracy to Iraq be believable when we prop up dictators throughout the Middle East and support military tyrants like Musharraf in Pakistan, who overthrew a democratically-elected president?

24. Are you familiar with the 1994 Senate Hearings that revealed the U.S. knowingly supplied chemical and biological materials to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war and as late as 1992 – including after the alleged Iraqi gas attack on a Kurdish village?

25. Did we not assist Saddam Hussein's rise to power by supporting and encouraging his invasion of Iran? Is it honest to criticize Saddam now for his invasion of Iran, which at the time we actively supported?

26. Is it not true that preventive war is synonymous with an act of aggression, and has never been considered a moral or legitimate US policy?

27. Why do the oil company executives strongly support this war if oil is not the real reason we plan to take over Iraq?

28. Why is it that those who never wore a uniform and are confident that they won't have to personally fight this war are more anxious for this war than our generals?

29. What is the moral argument for attacking a nation that has not initiated aggression against us, and could not if it wanted?

30. Where does the Constitution grant us permission to wage war for any reason other than self-defense?

31. Is it not true that a war against Iraq rejects the sentiments of the time-honored Treaty of Westphalia, nearly 400 years ago, that countries should never go into another for the purpose of regime change?

32. Is it not true that the more civilized a society is, the less likely disagreements will be settled by war?

33. Is it not true that since World War II Congress has not declared war and – not coincidentally – we have not since then had a clear-cut victory?


34. Is it not true that Pakistan, especially through its intelligence services, was an active supporter and key organizer of the Taliban?

35. Why don't those who want war bring a formal declaration of war resolution to the floor of Congress?

Dr. Ron Paul is a Republican member of Congress from Texas.

I find it ironic that most in the free gold camp are against a war with Iraq even though most analysts believe a war would be very friendly for the price of gold. Were we for the war, many in the mainstream would be calling us callous, only interested in making money at the expense of human life.



Blackjack (09/12/02; 22:29:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 85012)
China's silver market shining
http://cnniw.yellowbrix.com/pages/cnniw/Story.nsp?story_id=32846946&ID=cnniw&scategory=Metals+%26+Minerals%3APrecious&
China's silver market shining after opening-up (2)

The Chinese people have traditionally loved silver jewelry and wares but have long had to use aluminum and other silver-gilded articles as substitutes. So with an eye particularly on the jewelry sector, Paul Bateman came to China in February to make researches on the great market potential and project cooperation possibilities.

Bateman is also optimistic about silver consumption in the photo- sensitive materials sector. As the third largest photo market of the world, China scores an average per-capita film consumption of only 0.1 roll, in comparison with the 3.6-roll level in developed nations.

The China Photo-Sensitive Association and the Lucky Group, a major film producer in the country, predict silver consumption for photo sensitive materials will grow at an average annual rate of about 8 percent in the 2002-2005 period. This year a total of 170 tons of silver will be used to produce color film and photo paper in China.

Attention is also paid to the electrics and electronics industry, which claims a majority 30-percent share of China's total consumption of the precious metal.

Wang Yingshan, president of Huatong Nonferrous Metal Trading Center Wholesale Market, forecast that the silver used for this sector will hit 700-800 tons this year, up from the 600 tons in 2000, and the figure will increase further to 1,000 tons in 2005, with an annual growth rate of 10 percent on average.

The first Annual China Silver Conference was jointly sponsored by the Silver Institute, China Nonferrous Metal Industry Association and the municipal government of Hohhot, with the aim of creating an opportunity for silver enterprises from all over the world to exchange information and strengthen cooperation.



Brett Woods (09/12/02; 22:16:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 85011)
Comex silver depositories a sham!
A post from metaldog nextdoor:

***
http://www.sltrib.com/2002/feb/02032002/nation_w/173125.htm

"It took three days in November, and 150 Brinks trucks, to get the gold and silver bars out. Half a billion dollars' worth."

I checked out the source. First of all the metals were recovered in october not november. It was supposedly removed in one day, 36 hrs at the most. Only two Brinks trucks were ever reported leaving the site.

http://www.rediff.com/money/2001/nov/17wtc.htm

"Spurred by authorities who wanted to demolish the building, by the potential for crime, and by whatever has always driven men to hunt for gold, emergency crews dug through the rubble and got a first glimpse of the gleaming booty on Oct 30."

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nydailynews/index.html?ts=1031801034

Article dated Nov. 1

"The metals were hauled out by Brink's trucks late Tuesday in a heavily guarded operation. Agnew said the vault was removed because the city wants to demolish what remains of 4 .."

Tuesday night was Oct.30

http://www.inq7.net/wnw/2001/nov/02/wnw_8-1.htm

"The bulk of some 240 million dollars' worth of gold and silver that had been stored under the ruined World Trade Center has been recovered, New York Mayor Rudolph Giuliani said Wednesday"

Wednesday was Oct.31

http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/nydailynews/index.html?ts=1031801034

"Officials finally got to the gold through that tunnel yesterday,..."

Oct.30

http://www.inq7.net/wnw/2001/nov/02/wnw_8-1.htm

"The New York daily news reported Wednesday that two truckloads of gold ingots had been unearthed from the ruins of the World Trade Center and were removed under armed guard by federal agents. The paper, quoting unidentified sources and workers at the site, said the gold was found in a delivery tunnel under the complex that was destroyed on September 11."

Yes, the gold was in the delivery tunnel not the vault!

http://www.rediff.com/money/2001/nov/17wtc.htm

"Guarded by a small army of heavily armed federal agents, city policemen and firefighters began the massive task of moving about 12 tonnes of gold and 30 million ounces of silver. The hoard was estimated to be worth at least $230 million."

That's 1028 tonnes of silver! Oh yah, 12 tonnes of gold. (lol)

While gold is very dense, the task of loading the indestructible yellow metal onto armoured Brinks trucks was not nearly as cumbersome as moving the silver.

Bottomline

30,000,000 oz. of silver moved in 36 hours with 150 brinks trucks. Fourteen 1000 oz. bars (68 lbs each) per minute would need to be loaded by hand. Impossible!

Evan though it was reported a small army of police officers and firemen loaded the metals, let's presume a forklift was used. That would still amount to one Brinks truck every 15 minutes. Note: A small army of people would not be required to run a forklift, a couple of people would be sufficient.

Only two Brinks trucks were reported.

Conclusion

Comex silver inventories are not physically available in published amounts. The manipulation is greater than anyone ever imagined! Yes, on paper the stated amounts may appear to exsist in COMEX depositories, in reality physical silver doesn't!

***
Comments?

Blackjack (09/12/02; 22:12:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 85010)
War could trigger "massive recession"
HONG KONG, Sept 12, 2002 (Xinhua via COMTEX) -- The Economist Intelligence Unit (EIU), which operates under the Economist magazine, predicted that the world would suffer a massive recession if Iraq were attacked and Middle East oil producers protested by pushing up the oil price.

Robin Bew, the chief economist of the EIU, told Xinhua in a written commentary Thursday, "Our forecasts assume that the United States does attack Iraq, and that the Middle East oil producers oppose the US action and team up to cut oil production, and thereby, pushing the oil price to, say, 70 US dollars a barrel or more, that would deliver a massive supply-side shock to the global economy and probably trigger a massive recession, similar to the oil shocks in the 1970s," Bew said.

Turning to the US economy, Christopher Nailer, the Singapore- based regional economist of the EIU, also told Xinhua in the commentary that the current imbalance in the US economy is severe, saying that sluggish growth is forecast for both 2002 and 2003.

"We expect the US economy to grow only 2.4 percent in 2002 and accelerate to only 2.8 percent in 2003. This is better than 2001 when the US economy grew only 0.3 percent, but still very weak.

"However, the imbalance in the US economy is severe, and we rate the possibility of a major recession - worse than the 2001 one - within the next two years as a 30 percent probability," Nailer said.

Black Blade (09/12/02; 21:49:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 85009)
Asia Awash In Red
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Asian markets are not very happy tonight. Apparently the war talk, ugly economic data, and now a report that foreign cash is leaving US investments at a recortd rate has the markets spooked. I can't blame them either. We know that Arab cash is quickly being pulled out, but now it appears that Asian and Euro cash is leaving too. This should accelerate as mutual funds begin to sell stocks to meet rising redemptions (note that the mutual fund cash buffer is just about gone). I have hit on this in the past, but now Fidelity Funds has come clean on the problem and I think Vanguard Funds has mentioned it too. As these two funds are the "big boys" in this game, we can only assume that the smaller players are experiencing the same difficulties. IRA's and 401K's are likely to get whacked pretty hard in the next few months. Hang on for the ride!

As always, get out of debt (and stay out of debt), stash enough cash for several months expenses, accumulate Gold and Silver portfolio insurance, and start a storage program of nonperishable food (yeah, food commodities are rising to 7 year highs due to the drought according to the latest data - especially grains) and store basic necessities. Times are about to get a little bit more "interesting".

- Black Blade

Yellow Metal (09/12/02; 21:40:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 85008)
Poor Mr. White Hills
Poor Mr. White Hills.
Hasn't anyone told him yet ?

That's just plain not fair.

How would you like it if nobody told you ?
You might not have bought gold when you did if someone hadn't tipped you off about American mainstream media.


Chap X (09/12/02; 21:38:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 85007)
From the real world....Not much has changed.....

Smedley Butler on Interventionism

-- Excerpt from a speech delivered in 1933, by Major General Smedley Butler, USMC.

War is just a racket. A racket is best described as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent
thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile
military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to
Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle-man for Big
Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket.

Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.


silvercollector (09/12/02; 21:29:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 85006)
White Hills
What have you been watching/listening to that has formed your obsure opinions?


Ten Bears (09/12/02; 21:28:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 85005)
Ulysses
Sorry Ulysses,I have no info on that game. The Dallas Morning News has an extensive write up on 'Jonny U' today.

Golden Bear (09/12/02; 21:06:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 85004)
White Hills (msg#: 85001)
http://www.sf.indymedia.org/uploads/bushpdx.ram
Please pass your message onto the poor Americans in this audio clip who once thought the same as you, that they live in the Home of the Free, and wait for their response...

You may find it disturbing...

silvester (09/12/02; 21:02:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 85003)
The Canuck Sierra discussion
I really avoid getting involved in the discussions here but enjoy most everything. But this ongoing conversation between Canuck and Sierra is one which requires a comment. You fellows are talking about something that should be on fore front of everyones mind and probably is if they're paying attention.

My thought on this if I may.

America is a well funded military might that likely is looked upon as a loose cannon from certain parts of the world. I belive this. I also believe if it were not America it would be some other power calling the shots. A couple thousand years of recorded history back me here.

When compared to other world powers the American record is not that bad. We could argue here for days but I will not. Yes America needs oil and everyone knows it. Iraq has oil and America will likely get it. It could be worse and has been. Maybe the world is fortunate the oil America needs is in a country run by a goverment thought to harbor weapons of mass distruction. Led by a man the world knows would use them if he so desired. Who else could or would clean up that situation? More likely America is fortunate.

Americas' future method of oil aquistition is not preferred and will come at high cost. But those billions of people Sierra speaks of that will side with him would move to America in a second given the chance. Millions already have. Maybe just because everybody likes the winning team or maybe because they know America is the finest power the world has ever known? With respect to human rights of course.

They also brought the gold price down to an affordable level so the wise could get through this. What more could you ask?



Golden Bear (09/12/02; 20:48:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 85002)
Interesting article by The Mogambo Guru
http://www.dailyreckoning.com
Snippit:

"...- Larry Edelson over at Weiss says that gold has two big things going for it. The Asians are accumulating gold, theoretically as the future real-asset base for their currencies, and the gold dinar, a proposed new Muslim currency. Larry says this is big news in the Islamic world, but is being studiously ignored everywhere else. Must be; it's the first I've heard about it.

It appears that not everyone in the world agrees with the snot-nosed Keynesian assessment that 5,000 continuous years of gold is over, and that gold is nothing but some barbarous relic...."
--------------------------------------------------------

GB: Obviously, we need to inform Mr. Mogambo about USAGold and its forum...


White Hills (09/12/02; 20:44:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 85001)
Sierra Madre, danger to the world
Dear Sir, This is not a political forum as I understand it, but your remarks seem to indicate some problem you have with the USA. To start off with this country is not a loose cannon in the world but instead it is the Light of Freedom and Liberty in the world. The USA is not a danger to the people of the world but it is to the tyrants, dictators, and Islamic terrorists of the world. And, all those billions of people that you say agree with you would be here in a minute if it were possible. The USA is the Land of the
Free and the Home of the Brave. The streets are paved with Gold, if you work hard enough. White Hills



Blackjack (09/12/02; 20:37:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 85000)
Investors pulling more cash out of US
Tokyo, Sept. 13 (Bloomberg) -- The dollar fell against the yen after a report signaled more money than expected left the U.S. in the second quarter and as the president said ``action will be unavoidable'' should Iraq fail to comply with UN resolutions.

The dollar slid to 119.77 at 9:55 a.m. Friday in Tokyo, from 120.14 late Thursday in New York. It was also at 98.24 U.S. cents per euro, from 98.15.

President George W. Bush said in a speech to the United Nations yesterday it must ``hold Iraq to account,'' for its defiance. Separately, the government reported a record $130 billion current account deficit in the second quarter, larger than the $125 billion forecast by economists in a Bloomberg News survey. U.S. stocks fell following the release.

``The Bush speech, the current account, a falling stock market,'' said Tadatoshi Taso, foreign exchange manager at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi. ``There's no way we can buy the dollar.''

The Standard & Poor's 500 index fell 2.5 percent to its biggest loss in almost two weeks, while the Dow Jones Industrial Average and the Nasdaq Composite Index also dropped more than 2 percent. The dollar has traded in tandem with stocks over 90 percent of the time over the last 6 months.

Also damping demand for the dollar was the comments of Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who said yesterday the depressing effects of falling stocks, less investment spending and the terrorist attacks of a year ago ``still linger.''

His remarks made it less likely the dollar would get a boost from reports out later in the day showing U.S. shopping trends strengthening, traders said.

U.S. retail sales probably rose by 0.5 percent in August, according to a Bloomberg News survey of 64 economists, a third month of gains. The University of Michigan consumer sentiment index for September probably rose to 88.0 from 87.6, according to a Bloomberg News survey of 49 economists.

``The news would have to be much better than expected to help the dollar, given Greenspan's comments,'' said Nobuaki Kubo, foreign exchange dealer at Daiwa Bank.

A weaker dollar would hurt Japan's efforts to export its way to recovery, since a stronger yen makes it more difficult for Japanese exporters to cut prices without reducing revenue. Japanese Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi met with Bush in New York amid signs the U.S. isn't interested in propping up the dollar.

Japan has ``used $30 billion and not moved the exchange rate at all,'' said U.S. Deputy Treasury Secretary Kenneth Dam Tuesday.


mikal (09/12/02; 20:34:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 84999)
God bless our vets and the victims of Gulf War Syndrome
http://www.all-natural.com/riley.html
In loving remembrance of the sacrifices, loyalty and honor of the white knights and their families, in need of our help.

Au-some (09/12/02; 19:57:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 84998)
War with Iraq
With all these rumors of a war with Iraq flying around I'm compelled to throw in my two grams worth. Does anyone else besides me see that we are in a war? Jihad has been declared against us all. The front line stretches from Bosnia (Muslim vs. Orthodox Christian), to Chechnya (Muslims vs. Atheist), to Pakistan/India (Muslim vs. Hindu) to the Philippines (Muslim vs. Buddhists et al.) with covert cross border actions (since the Gulf War) against the Murrah Building, various Airliners, the Cole, the Twin Towers and so on.
Got war? You bet. And it is a religious war.
Why isn't this perception wide spread? Because it is not politically correct to say so and when it comes to discussion of real geo-politics, the overlords put finger to lips and warn "Shhhh! The children might hear you."
SH and OBL and the militant Muslims are getting more and more deadly as we sit and dither. It is time to take the blindfold off. We are in a fight, not on our way to one.
Off to work the night shift. Must obtain paper to exchange for gold.


Golden Bear (09/12/02; 19:39:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 84997)
Small Investors questioning the Wall Street Cheerleaders...
http://reuters.com/news_article.jhtml;jsessionid=CBQ0WMTAUOCTYCRBAEOCFFA?type=businessnews&StoryID=1394880
"....NEW YORK (Reuters) - Who says Wall Street isn't the greatest stock-pricing machine?

After driving stocks higher late last year on hopes the economy would bounce back from recession, investors sensed by this summer that something was awfully wrong. They pulled $50 billion from U.S. stock mutual funds, a record withdrawal that sent the market into a horrific drop.

What happened is the average investor dismissed upbeat stories from analysts and ignored Washington's claim of a disconnect between stocks and the economy.

Indeed, small investors were correct in not accepting a turnaround in the economy. Six months into 2002, economic growth has nearly stalled with second-quarter growth increasing at a measly pace of 1.1 percent after racking up a huge 5 percent gain in the first quarter. Clearly, the economic recovery was slower than most experts thought.

"While many analysts believe that the market is out of sync with the economy, it is much more probable the widespread forecast of economic recovery is out of sync with the market," says John Hussman, professor of economics at the University of Michigan and publisher of Hussman Econometrics, a research report.

LISTEN TO THE MARKET

"Given an economic recovery, the argument goes, the stock market should be performing much better," he says. "Unfortunately, when market action disagrees with the optimism of analysts, central bankers and presidents, it is the market that has the better record of looking ahead."

Smart investors are now sitting on the sidelines after pulling $52.6 billion from stock mutual funds in July, the largest monthly outflow in history, topping $30 billion in September 2001.

"The pain and the fear became unbearable and several million investors gave up at virtually the same time," says Don Cassidy, senior research analyst for Lipper Inc., a fund tracking firm.

The remarkable thing was investors finally took control of their investments in July and they turned the table around on their brokers who kept telling them to "buy, buy and then buy some more stocks."

People are now waiting for the economy and corporate earnings to improve before jumping back into the market. They refuse to be sucked into believing Wall Street cheerleaders who say that a half dozen consecutive quarters of lousy corporate results were simply a speed bump...."


Yellow Jacket (09/12/02; 19:38:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 84996)
price contest
$$$$$322.10$$$$$
The day when stocks and bonds go down together is coming.Investors will turn to gold

Ulysses (09/12/02; 19:35:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 84995)
Ten Bears
Know anything about the Colts/Bears game in 1964 at wrigley Field? I think Unitas was a rookie and he got his butt kicked(the only time?). I had a chance to buy the game program last year but someone beat me to it. Unitas was my childhood hero. Any info?

sector (09/12/02; 19:21:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 84994)
HSBC Bank Exiting Gold Business in Hong Kong
Another "Dot" in the Fed's golden con-game along with GWB's Winds of War
The exit of HSBC from the gold business in Hong Kong is consistent with a stressed Treasury and Fed attempting to hoard gold ahead of what will surely be a big physical demand shock. HSBC recently refused to sell coins to a long-time customer even though they had the inventory.

The war with Iraq will bring additive inflationary pressures [The ECRI's Future Inflation Gauge is already sitting at 18.8%]. The first Fed rate rise will be something to behold.

The President has yet to offer new evidence regarding Iraq's WMD program. Absent this, one is still left wondering why all the bellicose war preparations. There is ven a new military base planned in West Africa's oil rich islands in exchange for easy access to oil.

The thought occurs that the President may have credible information not on Iraq's WMD but on a possible shut off from OPEC. Whatever the threat, the Prez imagines it to be worth war and so far doesn't feel that telling the US people or Congress is a good idea.

His war plans depend again on paid mercenaries [The Kurds], a house-to-house Baghdad tactic which had devastating results in Mogadishu and no entry by Israel...all with a wafer-thin internal US and NO external World consensus.

Such a plan is utter lunacy. That such a plan exists at all is testimony to the gravity of whatever the real threat is. That threat will be released sooner or later, either by it's implementation or by official press. Gold will jump on the news.


misetich (09/12/02; 19:09:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 84993)
Cold Comfort in Winter Oil Prices -Possible U.S. action against Iraq, uncertain winter demand, and OPEC's upcoming summit add up to little hope of lower prices anytime soon
http://www.businessweek.com/investor/content/sep2002/pi2002099_7587.htm
Snip:

But unless production rises significantly, higher prices may be here to stay, whatever takes place on the geopolitical stage.

WIDER RISKS. That would be bad news for economies worldwide. To the extent that lofty crude prices don't reflect the increasingly negative world economic outlook, they represent a potential tax on consumers -- and a further weight on an already struggling global recovery, particularly on manufacturers.

In part, the latest price rise reflects the uncertainties of Mideast politics and the prospect of military action against Iraq. The market isn't just worried about disruptions Iraqi oil output, which, in any case, has dropped below 500,000 barrels per day in the last week of August, according to U.N. data. The real fear stems from the wider risks to the region as a whole from the political backlash arising from any potential conflict.

These worries persist despite regional producers having the capacity to make up any war-related shortfall and committing to do so. But things have changed since the 1990-91 Gulf war episode, when prices for the benchmark Brent crude peaked at $38 per barrel after Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in the summer of 1990, only to subside even before the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq took place in early January. This time around, the added wild card of the U.S. effort to combat terrorism adds an extra dimension to a risk premium that's unlikely to fade quickly.
********
Misetich

A war premium + a terrorims premium + Iran premium + Saudi Arabia premium + Hugo Chavez premium + Euro premium + China premium

Get physical - get gold

Got gold?


cyberbat (09/12/02; 19:06:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 84992)
Where there's Smoke-good article by Chuck Butler-Everbank World Markets
"Where there's smoke, there's fire!And in the latest case of rumor and street stories, there's definitely a fire burning. Here's the skinny. Bill Murphy, of GATA (the Gold Anti-trust Action Group) fame, recently wrote GATA members that Alan Greenspan had moved his monetary policy to an easing bias so that the Federal Reserve could react to a hedge fund that apparently is in deep dookie. This hedge fund made big bets on what they believed would be a narrowing of the spread between corporate bonds and treasury bonds, only to have that spread widen and blow up in their face. This helps to explain Treasury bond strength even on days when the U.S. stock market has rallied. Normally, bonds would suffer in price as funds shift from bonds to stocks. However, right now we're seeing both rally, which would indicate bond buying from other sources.
The thing that set off bells and whistles for me, however, was the fact that the NASD was calling member firms and inquiring about their "hedge funds" sales practices and outstanding trades. Hmmm...that's enough evidence of a problem brewing for a hedge fund for me. Now, all that can be done is to wait and see...and cover your behind!"
Great article in September's "Review and Focus".

misetich (09/12/02; 19:03:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 84991)
Earnings: Another Season of Discontent? Already, third-quarter warnings are running higher than usual, and estimates are coming down for the final period as well
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/sep2002/nf20020911_1135.htm
Snip:

After seeing early numbers, sharpening their pencils, and running some projections, they often don't like their conclusions. "Reality starts to take over from fantasy," explains Sam Stovall, chief investment strategist at Standard & Poor's, "and estimates and prices come down."

Now comes September, 2002, and the approaching period of reassessment could be particularly ugly. Many analysts' projections were predicated on earlier forecasts for a strong second-half recovery in corporate spending that has yet to materialize. The third quarter got off to a terrible start in July, as corporate scandals shook investors' confidence. Since then, the stock market has staged a healthy bounceback, and the economic news in August was a bit more encouraging. But in the weeks ahead, investors should stand vigilant.

MANY RED FLAGS. The market is just entering the "preannouncement" phase, which occurs every quarter when corporations that won't meet earlier forecasts break the news to Wall Street. Already, the number of warnings is running higher than usual. According to earnings tracker First Call, 52% of preannouncements so far in the third quarter for S&P 500 companies have been below expectations, while only 22% have been above. In contrast, at this point in the second quarter, only 38% of earnings preannouncements were below expectations and 34% were above.
..........
WINTER BLUES IN FALL. In another worrying sign, analysts are taking down their estimates for the fourth quarter as well -- and just as rapidly, says Cooper. As of July 1, they were predicting earnings growth of 27.7% in the final period. Today, they forecast 22.6% growth. "That's unheard of," says Cooper. "Five percentage points of growth have already been removed, and we're still three weeks away from the quarter beginning."
*******
Misetich

3rd qtr pre-announcement season is upon us - war drum beating - oil prices stubbornly high - Brazil's election one year away - JP Morgan's stock a couple of bucks above the "fatally" reported $20 - Gold $10-20 away from 'critical areas'

This is beginning to be fun! Lets stay on the GOLD TRAIL -

Got gold?



misetich (09/12/02; 18:55:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 84990)
The Cost of Fighting Terrorism
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/02_37/b3799603.htm
Snip:

But history is full of examples of governments that greatly underestimated the cost of fighting wars. The emerging Bush doctrine of preemptive action against terrorist groups and nations, if fully executed, could be costly. Its budget projections do not include, for example, the cost of invading Iraq, which by some estimates could total more than $50 billion. That would add perhaps 15% to the defense budget. Another major terror attack would also likely prompt a surge in the budget for security and defense. And while precision-guided munitions proved effective in Afghanistan, "it remains to be proven that high tech is cheaper," says Joseph Cirincione, a senior associate at Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.
..........
If the costs of fighting terrorism rise, the long-term burden will fall on workers and business investment. More spending on defense will lead to far bigger budget deficits than are now projected and higher interest rates, which will hurt housing and make it more difficult for companies to raise money. The need to put more money into security will boost political pressure to raise taxes or cut domestic spending. And companies will pass on their added security costs in the form of higher prices, just as they did with higher energy costs in 2000. The result: higher inflation and a lower standard of living.
...........
This time, one of the most vulnerable sectors is residential housing. Both new-home prices and home-resale prices have benefited greatly from low interest rates. In addition, with the government running a surplus and not issuing new Treasury securities, the safest investments available to investors became the bonds issued by Fannie Mae (FNM ) and Freddie Mac (FRE ). That translated into the lowest mortgage rates in decades.

But if the budget is in deficit as the economy recovers, that will push up rates. And once government starts borrowing again, Treasury bonds will become investors' preferred "safe option," making it harder to raise money for home loans, so less money will go into housing.
*******
Misetich

Oh now Sir Greenspan warning on ballooning deficit is understable -
Part of Sir Greenspan methodology in I told you so - irrational exhuberance at Dow 6,000 before it took off and now the deficit warning before the real estate bubble burst as he probably anticipates a stock market dive and need for US to attract investments by increasing interest rates which would prick the real estate bubble

Since this year budget deficit targeted at $165 before interest and off-budget items is being underestimated by at least 30-40 billion and next year being underestimated by ??? and the year after that..etc. etc. etc.

Got gold?




kramrich (09/12/02; 18:53:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 84989)
Calpers dumps Goldman
Maybe the new CEO at the World Gold Council, James Burton (former CEO of Calpers), should call Calpers and convince them to put that $663 million in physical gold. That will pay better Goldman did.

misetich (09/12/02; 18:43:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 84988)
Johny U
Thanks for the memories Johny U - you'll be missed

misetich (09/12/02; 18:42:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 84987)
Emerging debt-Brazil drifts higher pending election news
http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2002/09/12/rtr719592.html
Snip:

The Vox Populi poll from Thursday showed few surprises as the Workers Party's Lula extended his lead by 3 percentage points to 39 percent, while Serra was steady at 19 percent. Center-left candidate Ciro Gomes, continued to slide from his one-time second place stance with a 3 percentage point drop to 17 percent.

Brazil's bonds, stocks and currency, the real, were ravaged in recent months after polls suggested Lula and Gomes might squeeze past Serra in the first round to face one another in a second-round run-off.
.........
"It is worth noting that Serra has now started to target Lula's policies and experience ... in his TV campaign," said J.P. Morgan in a research note. "This suggests confidence that he has consolidated his lead over Gomes, and this impression is reinforced by growing signs that the latter's PFL backers are deserting his campaign."
*******
JP Morgan's analysts, researchers are being 'quoted' everywhere - always positive towards their holdings (negative gold) -

Brazil's elections are only a month away - lets stay on this TRAIL - and lets remember JP Morgan's exposure being reported at $2.6 billion

Got gold?

R Powell (09/12/02; 18:37:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 84986)
Knallgold
My apologies. I see now that you had already posted the silver news from China. Did you also hear that from Netking or did he hear it from you? No matter, what does matter is that it has been seen.
Keep up the good work!
Rich

Ten Bears (09/12/02; 18:31:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 84985)
Johnny Unitas
A working class kid who made it with determination, hard work, and a 'can do' attitude...never a lackey for any establishment...he called his own plays on and off the field. Some will say he was just a sports guy, but to those of us in his generation,he was a symbol of what made america great, an affirmation of the concept that honest effort and talent could produce success. In the game he is most remembered for...a loss to the Jets...he was not allowed to enter the game until near the end, and he was responsible for the only score for his team, an earlier entry and the outcome might have changed. On and off the field,he was not a booster type,he never talked about what he would do, he just did it. A "golden" type..america could use more like him,and hopefully in the game before it's too late....Johnny Unitas 1933-2002.

misetich (09/12/02; 18:29:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 84984)
Calpers Says Goldman Is Not Performing
http://www.thestreet.com/markets/matthewgoldstein/10042080.html
Snip:
Calpers, the big California pension fund, is giving the boot to Goldman Sachs (GS:NYSE - news - commentary - research - analysis) because it said the high-powered investment firm did a bad job managing some $663 million in assets.
..........
In ousting Goldman, Calpers, in its report, said the Wall Street firm "did not show the ability to outperform the benchmark in any market environment."

Goldman declined to comment.

Goldman had been managing Calpers' money since June 1998. And over that time, it had a cumulative portfolio loss of 27% -- worse than any other asset-management firm and the S&P 500's 17.4% decline. The fund measures performance against its own benchmark, the Calpers Wilshire 2500, which fell 24.3% since June 1998.

Goldman was not alone in performing poorly for Calpers during the bear market. The fund's board said it is putting two other money managers on a "watch list" for possible ouster, but it didn't identify them.

Other money managers with less-than-stellar performances were J.P. Morgan Chase (JPM:NYSE - news - commentary - research - analysis), Putnam Advisory and Oppenheimer Capital.
********
Misetich
Amusing - Goldman's Managers must have heeded Abby Cohen's advise -
JP Morgan must have relied on their own research - just as they have with their HUGE GOLD DERIVATIVE POSITION

Times have changed - stubborn stock market bulls have paid the price - by buying the famous "dip" - those that have turned "long term investors" - will find out what long term means

Got gold?

Scarab (09/12/02; 18:09:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 84983)
$$$$ $321.3 $$$$
Why? Physical gold is a vote for real money. Gold is no man's liability.

misetich (09/12/02; 18:02:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 84982)
War could wreak havoc on corporate bonds
http://www.nj.com/business/ledger/index.ssf?/base/business-2/1031821825155751.xml
Snip:

A U.S. invasion of Iraq could cause broad pain to the corporate bond market, and that has analysts urging investors to hew to the safest credits and sectors.

Yet it may be too late to shift investment strategies, some professional investors say.

"The damage has already been done," said Peter Palfrey, senior portfolio manager for Loomis Sayles & Co. in Boston. "The market has priced in a lot of bad news already."

The biggest worry: a repeat of the early 1990s sell-off when Iraq invaded Kuwait, causing the Dow Jones industrial average to drop 21 percent from its mid-1990 peak and yield spreads on corporate bonds to gap out sharply.
........
"A confrontation with Iraq could drive energy prices sharply higher and also significantly erode consumer confidence and business sentiment," perhaps even throwing the country into a "double-dip" recession, said John Lonski, chief economist for rating agency Moody's Investors Service.
............
*********
Misetich
Stock are out of favor - so are corporate bonds - those who think GSE's are safe will suffer the consequences - Treasuries yields are falling behind the REAL inflation curve - what safe haven is left?

Get physical - get some gold

Got gold?

misetich (09/12/02; 17:49:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 84981)
Greenspan Says Congress Must Return Fiscal Discipline
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_box.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&box=ad_box_all&tag=financial&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APYD7XRbOR3JlZW5z&ao=22212442
Snip:

Washington, Sept. 12 (Bloomberg) -- Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan told Congress it should restrain spending to avoid a prolonged period of U.S. budget deficits that might push interest rates higher.

``Returning to a fiscal climate of continuous large deficits would risk returning to an era of high interest rates, low levels of investment, and slower growth of productivity,'' Greenspan told the House of Representatives Budget Committee.
.........
``Greenspan's hubris knows no shame,'' said Paul McCulley, who oversees about $90 billion for Pacific Investment Management Co. He ``chooses to freelance as prime minister whenever the mood strikes him. This is not a monetary standard, but a Greenspan philosopher-king standard.''
...........
Budget analysts said Congress may not follow the lead Greenspan outlined. ``At a time when there is demand for more spending, when the economy is not doing well and it is an election year,'' Congress and the White House won't agree on new spending caps, said Stanley Collender, managing director at Fleishman- Hillard Inc., a consulting firm. ``It ain't going to happen.''
*********
Mr. Magoo err ..Sir Greenspan agreed (with usual caveats) on tax cuts to stimulate the economy - those same tax cuts are part of the budget deficit - reminiscent sort of irrational exhuberance speech - he yells caution on one hand and on the other hand he opens the flood gates

Sir Greenspan senility is showing as time goes by -

Got gold?


Sierra Madre (09/12/02; 17:41:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 84980)
"Chickenhawks" - that's a keeper!!

Lovely things the Internet provides! Just lovely!
Here we have the personal record of the hypocrites that have served as role models for the innocent people of the U.S.A.
SOB's, the lot. "Do as I say, not as I do".
Too bad there's so few of us to know the facts about the great leaders. Got to keep that site in mind.

Sierra

R Powell (09/12/02; 17:32:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 84979)
PRC silver news
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200209/12/eng20020912_103054.shtml
Some silver news from China. Thanks to Netking for finding this one. There's so little fundamental info that even the best of analysts have taken to speculating rather than reporting. The worst of analysts just report the trend and say silver moves with gold.

Silver- Buy it by the lb.

The government sold more silver eagles last month than any month since the program started in 1986. Coin production is small potatos in the overall demand picture but more demand for coins is a positive sign. I had thought the contest might have brought some oldtime silverbugs out of lurking. I hope good people like Poor Old Solomon and others are well.
Rich

Sierra Madre (09/12/02; 17:20:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 84978)
Canuck Gold: Dangers to the world....

Well, I shall not comment futher than to say, dear Sir, that the U.S. of A. (Government) is a vastly greater danger to all the peoples of the world, than Saddam Hussein.

Swollen in might and arrogance, the U.S. of A. (Government) and ruled by the Judaic power, as admitted expressly by Ariel Sharon, is a loose cannon in this world.

But, I shall not express myself further in this regard, Sir Canuck, since it is evident any further comment would be useless. But do note, Sir, that there are not millions, but billions of human beings in this world, who would agree with me, and not with you.

Sierra

Golden Bear (09/12/02; 17:16:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 84977)
"The Japanese banking system is essentially broke."
www.dailyreckoning.com/body_headline.cfm?id=2398
Snippit:

"....Now there is finally a movement to begin reforms, although somewhat tentatively. If Moody's is right, it is not a case of "too little, too late." It is simply too late.

Says Moody's: "The efforts by the Japanese government to instill real market discipline to the currently fragile banking system poses significant risks to both the country's financial system, and its economy at large...Moody's believes that market reforms, in the absence of financial market stabilization, which looks increasingly likely to require public funds injection, could prove catastrophic for the financial system...The system is not in a condition that could withstand the potential fall-out from a dramatic shift in depositor sentiment."

The Japanese government is moving to limit the deposit guarantee at banks, which has been one of just many reforms needed. Moody's is suggesting that this would cause bank runs, and risk collapsing the system.

Look at those words: catastrophic...significant risk...public funds injections. This is a very sober Moody's that is telling us, as Weldon translates their report, "The Japanese banking system is essentially broke...."


Golden Bear (09/12/02; 17:02:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 84976)
Canuck Gold (msg#: 84956)
http://www.nhgazette.com/chickenhawks.html
BTW, your choice of example of John Wayne is a poor one. In Hollywood he was the tough guy, but did you realize he dodged the draft for WWII? That's right, a chickenhawk!

Look it up...

Golden Bear (09/12/02; 16:50:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 84975)
Canuck Gold (msg#: 84914)
Sorry Canuck Gold, but your argument has no merit on two grounds:

1. Iraq has been monitored for a decade with North and South No fly zones, and who knows what other restrictions put in place by the UN. The UN should re-instigate measures to curb any threats of WMD deployment by Iraq, not some warmongering president who doesn't give a damn about the son's and daughters of his people who will be expediently sacrificed for his personal gain and that of his buddies.

2. As I recall it was the USA who shoveled all these WMD's over the fence (into Iraq) and gave them the ability to gas whoever they wanted. Yes, this monstrous neighbor has been created by the government of USA, and now has to deal with the consequences - can you say the word BLOWBACK, I knew you could...



Draco (09/12/02; 16:14:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 84974)
J.P.Morgan

JPM closed down $.97 (4.22%) today and settled at 22.01.
Only $2 more to a derivatives meltdown??



R Powell (09/12/02; 15:45:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 84973)
Contest co-ordinator
We do have the potential for Invisible Hand and Otish Mountain to tie for the prize if POG settles tomorrow at $7796.1.

I'd like to be among the early contestants to thank the Good Wizard for another job well done. Now that the work is done he may sleep with both eyes closed and dream with both halves of his brain. Hopefully, the hobbits will care for his needs. While the exact number of years has never been devulged, it is no secret that the Wiz was no longer a young Magician even before changing his name from the Grey to the White.

Thank you Gandolf, sleep well. Golden dreams.
Rich

Waverider (09/12/02; 14:31:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 84972)
DAILY GOLD MARKET REPORT
http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html
Not to be missed!

Buena Fe (09/12/02; 14:23:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 84971)
(No Subject)
i got so busy and forgot to enter contest, so i'll create a derivative bet and place my token on "turkey hunter" (326.50) as the winner.

actually you are/will ALL be winners 'cause of your diligence in pursuit of TRUTH. Congrats in advance.

now the march past 335 should begin in earnest! ("w" & g et al, have little punch left, world has had enough)

Knallgold (09/12/02; 13:18:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 84970)
More on Shanghai (took it from GE,worth reading)
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200209/12/eng20020912_103053.shtml
"The sixth RNA China Gold and Precious Metals
Conference held in Shanghai reinforced the claim that the
eastern metropolis is becoming the country's gold tradingcenter. "

Knallgold (09/12/02; 13:15:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 84969)
And about Silver
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/200209/12/eng20020912_103054.shtml
"China has become an important market in the world for
the consumption of the precious metal of silver since its
deregulation. "

From where then comes this alledged Silver flood?????

Knallgold (09/12/02; 13:12:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 84968)
Shanghai Gold Market
http://service.china.org.cn/link/wcm/Show_Text?info_id=42460&p_qry=gold
Particularly interesting:

"Observers expect the official launch of the Shanghai Gold Exchange will bring China's gold industry into a market system as opposed to a planned one.

"It will abolish the role of the central bank as a gold trading middleman and provide a direct trading platform for domestic buyers and sellers.Thus the prices in the market will fluctuate with international prices changes," Chen said. "

Gold,private property.As we were introduced by FOA et al. years ago.And this free market approach in communistic China-where are WE living?

"Experts have also pointed out that because the exchange is to provide only spot transactions and no futures or financial derivatives, it will still be unable to meet gold enterprises' demand for risk hedging. "

Oh those "experts",will they ever learn?

Knallgold (09/12/02; 13:01:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 84967)
Paper
"Just like the Swiss banks that offer a "metal account", in which there is zero gold..." SierraMadre

Just to confirm this,years back I wanted to buy Gold into my portfolio.The first thing they tried to talk me into was a metal account,I refused,they said "hey,it bears even a bit interest".I said I want physical in my portfolio-they didn't know how to proceed!And this at the second largest swiss bank...


Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 12:16:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 84966)
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"
===
FYI ---- HIGH, Low and Settlement Price of GC2Z on NY COMEX: w/ "POLESITTERS" of the day!
9/3/02 $315.9 $314.1 $315.0s
9/4/02 $317.1 $313.8 $316.5s Change + $1.5 $$$$ 316.0 Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT
9/5/02 $320.8 $318.1 $319.8s Change + $3.3 $$$$ 319.8 Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT
9/6/02 $322.9 $319.8 $321.5s Change + $1.7 $$$$ 321.4 balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT
9/9/02 $325.5 $322.4 $322.8s Change + $1.3 $$$$ 323.2 a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT
9/10/2 $321.5 $318.7 $319.4s Change - $3.4 $$$$ 319.4 koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT
9/11/2 $318.3 $316.0 $318.1s Change - $1.3 TIE between
-------------------------------------------------$$$$ 318.3 Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT
-------------------------------------------------and $$$$ 317.9 VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT
9/12/2 $321.3 $318.6 $320.4s Change + $2.3 Last POLESITTER before the Winner is
------------------------------------------------$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT
<;-)
===
The FINAL Listing is as setforth on the last message.
GOOD LUCK to all as we await the Settlement tomorrow.
Now to rest and the Hobbits can take a nap.
Thanks all !!!
<;-)





Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 11:47:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 84965)
FINAL CALL !!! DEADLINE for entries is in less than 15 MINUTES !!!!!
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"

FINAL UPDATE (as of Thursday at about 1145 Denver time 9/12/02)

PROGNOSTICATIONS -- Listed in descending order of Price.

$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (09/10/02; 20:18:10MT - msg#: 84776)

$$$$ 6,840.2 $$$$ otish mountain (09/12/02; 08:36:08MT - msg#: 84930)

$$$$ 398.6 $$$$ Believer (09/04/02; 18:22:46MT - msg#: 84358)

$$$$ 375.0 $$$$ Henri (09/04/02; 10:58:18MT - msg#: 84326)

$$$$ 362.3 $$$$ NEMO me impune lacessit (09/04/02; 05:21:24MT - msg#: 84304)

$$$$ 354.4 $$$$ perform (09/04/02; 07:34:49MT - msg#: 84313)

$$$$ 353.4 $$$$ darkhorse (09/03/02; 20:56:04MT - msg#: 84280)

$$$$ 349.2 $$$$ mdgc (09/05/02; 15:45:42MT - msg#: 84427)

$$$$ 345.0 $$$$ Socrates964 (09/04/02; 16:11:50MT - msg#: 84344)

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (09/04/02; 21:38:27MT - msg#: 84381)

$$$$ 342.5 $$$$ gvc (09/03/02; 17:08:12MT - msg#: 84255)

$$$$ 341.7 $$$$ old gold (09/04/02; 11:40:02MT - msg#: 84330)

$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (09/03/02; 22:36:21MT - msg#: 84289)

$$$$ 337.0 $$$$ Creosote (09/09/02; 22:08:29MT - msg#: 84703)

$$$$ 336.7 $$$$ sstins (09/12/02; 08:32:28MT - msg#: 84929)

$$$$ 335.4 $$$$ Roger The Shrubber (09/05/02; 08:18:47MT - msg#: 84404)

$$$$ 334.7 $$$$ GoldCoaster (09/05/02; 21:29:56MT - msg#: 84455)

$$$$ 333.7 $$$$ Speedy (09/04/02; 19:15:01MT - msg#: 84366)

$$$$ 333.4 $$$$ Slowman (09/04/02; 20:10:11MT - msg#: 84370)

$$$$ 332.9 $$$$ SWEET 16 (9/7/02; 13:02:34MT - msg#: 84569)

$$$$ 332.5 $$$$ Hipplebeck (9/9/02; 11:52:25MT - msg#: 84676)

$$$$ 332.2 $$$$ BlackBart (9/6/02; 23:09:00MT - msg#: 84544)

$$$$ 332.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (9/7/02; 02:35:37MT - msg#: 84550)

$$$$ 331.3 $$$$ misetich (09/04/02; 05:28:30MT - msg#: 84307)
$$$$ 331.2 $$$$ Pippin (09/04/02; 12:50:09MT - msg#: 84335)

$$$$ 330.9 $$$$ silvester (09/10/02; 20:07:18MT - msg#: 84774)

$$$$ 330.0 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (09/04/02; 19:11:32MT - msg#: 84365)

$$$$ 329.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (09/04/02; 11:36:15MT - msg#: 84329)

$$$$ 329.3 $$$$ mikal (09/04/02; 17:08:29MT - msg#: 84349)
$$$$ 329.2 $$$$ The Hoople (09/04/02; 12:04:30MT - msg#: 84332)

$$$$ 329.0 $$$$ Sundeck (9/11/02; 05:09:56MT - msg#: 84801)

$$$$ 328.8 $$$$ Goldilocks 1 (09/09/02; 21:39:15MT - msg#: 84699)

$$$$ 328.5 $$$$ steady (09/03/02; 20:14:41MT - msg#: 84272)

$$$$ 328.1 $$$$ ha_tey_o (09/04/02; 11:15:13MT - msg#: 84327)

$$$$ 327.9 $$$$ Trapper (09/03/02; 20:12:26MT - msg#: 84271)

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ mudr (9/6/02; 22:47:45MT - msg#: 84543)

$$$$ 327.3 $$$$ luckypierre (09/03/02; 15:20:51MT - msg#: 84244)

$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ DoubleEagle (9/11/02; 22:09:54MT - msg#: 84873)

$$$$ 326.7 $$$$ timbervision (9/11/02; 21:24:16MT - msg#: 84863)

$$$$ 326.5 $$$$ turkey hunter (09/03/02; 18:33:51MT - msg#: 84261)

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ White Rose (09/06/02; 08:23:51MT - msg#: 84503)

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ Galerider (09/03/02; 20:53:27MT - msg#: 84279)

$$$$ 325.3 $$$$ GuyGold (9/11/02; 21:25:02MT - msg#: 84867)
$$$$ 325.2 $$$$ The CoinGuy (09/04/02; 13:00:07MT - msg#: 84338)
$$$$ 325.1 $$$$ sangrelli (9/7/02; 16:43:48MT - msg#: 84575)
$$$$ 325.0 $$$$ compwiz4u (09/12/02; 10:01:47MT - msg#: 84941)
$$$$ 324.9 $$$$ CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:38:13MT - msg#: 84950)

$$$$ 324.7 $$$$ Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - msg#: 84910)

$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Rock (09/04/02; 12:19:18MT - msg#: 84334)
$$$$ 324.4 $$$$ Paper Avalanche (09/12/02; 11:09:21MT - msg#: 84957)
$$$$ 324.3 $$$$ Shermag (9/11/02; 11:17:37MT - msg#: 84820)

$$$$ 324.1 $$$$ Gold Standard (09/04/02; 05:02:31MT - msg#: 84302)

$$$$ 323.7 $$$$ Boxman (9/4/02; 04:27:17MT - msg#: 84301)
$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ Yukon (09/08/02; 22:57:32MT - msg#: 84636)

$$$$ 323.2 $$$$ a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT - msg#: 84229)

$$$$ 323.0 $$$$ RobotGuy (09/12/02; 08:54:01MT - msg#: 84935)

$$$$ 322.8 $$$$ R Powell (09/11/02; 18:24:59MT - msg#: 84846)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$ Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - msg#: 84909)

$$$$ 322.5 $$$$ Gimli_ (09/12/02; 08:45:40MT - msg#: 84933)

$$$$ 322.2 $$$$ Tommy P (09/03/02; 14:33:23MT - msg#: 84233)

$$$$ 322.0 $$$$ Golden Bear (09/11/02; 20:40:34MT - msg#: 84858)
$$$$ 321.9 $$$$ MoonHowler (09/04/02; 21:59:49MT - msg#: 84382)
$$$$ 321.8 $$$$ Carl H (09/12/02; 11:42:21MT - msg#: 84964)
$$$$ 321.7 $$$$ All Black (9/11/02; 21:25:51MT - msg#: 84866)
$$$$ 321.6 $$$$ sector (09/12/02; 10:56:53MT - msg#: 84953)
$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ Waverider (09/12/02; 08:07:40MT - msg#: 84921)
$$$$ 321.4 $$$$ balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT - msg#: 84353)
$$$$ 321.3 $$$$ goldquest (9/11/02; 00:01:10MT - msg#: 84795)
$$$$ 321.2 $$$$ kramrich (09/12/02; 07:58:11MT - msg#: 84917)
$$$$ 321.1 $$$$ The Knife (09/04/02; 16:30:43MT - msg#: 84345)
$$$$ 321.0 $$$$ Gandalf the White (09/03/02; 12:29:20MT - msg#: 84221)
$$$$ 320.9 $$$$ miner49er (09/12/02; 07:51:47MT - msg#: 84913)
$$$$ 320.8 $$$$ Neubie (9/11/02; 08:25:55MT - msg#: 84810)
$$$$ 320.7 $$$$ BILLYG (9/11/02; 21:33:17MT - msg#: 84868)
$$$$ 320.6 $$$$ Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - msg#: 84905)
$$$$ 320.5 $$$$ cwa (09/10/02; 21:39:38MT - msg#: 84784)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.3 $$$$ Aureo Speedwagon (09/11/02; 15:00:12MT - msg#: 84835)
$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (09/03/02; 13:18:00MT - msg#: 84226)
$$$$ 320.1 $$$$ Truthcaster (09/11/02; 17:28:21MT - msg#: 84843)
$$$$ 320.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (09/03/02; 15:06:26MT - msg#: 84240)
$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Draco (09/10/02; 18:38:08MT - msg#: 84763)
$$$$ 319.8 $$$$ Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT - msg#: 84257)
$$$$ 319.7 $$$$ slingshot (09/03/02; 16:57:17MT - msg#: 84254)
$$$$ 319.6 $$$$ NTgeo (9/6/02; 01:56:11MT - msg#: 84477)
$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ davefinger (09/03/02; 14:52:14MT - msg#: 84235)
$$$$ 319.4 $$$$ koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT - msg#: 84299)
$$$$ 319,3 $$$$ Shanti (09/11/02; 15:09:35MT - msg#: 84836)
$$$$ 319.2 $$$$ Bulldog (09/03/02; 21:53:40MT - msg#: 84288)
$$$$ 319.1 $$$$ Jon (09/12/02; 07:58:43MT - msg#: 84918)
$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Just waking up (09/10/02; 13:46:21MT - msg#: 84737)
$$$$ 318.9 $$$$ Graham (9/11/02; 09:01:37MT - msg#: 84812)
$$$$ 318.8 $$$$ Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - msg#: 84911)
$$$$ 318.7 $$$$ Camel (09/12/02; 08:16:08MT - msg#: 84926)
$$$$ 318.6 $$$$ Kodie (09/03/02; 12:41:26MT - msg#: 84222)
$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ Broken Tee (09/11/02; 12:50:41MT - msg#: 84829)
$$$$ 318.4 $$$$ donnemuir (09/12/02; 10:20:12MT - msg#: 84945)
$$$$ 318.3 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT - msg#: 84755)
$$$$ 318.2 $$$$ Wky_Woodsman (09/12/02; 11:19:14MT - msg#: 84961)
$$$$ 318.1 $$$$ wiley (09/11/02; 13:14:39MT - msg#: 84830)

$$$$ 317.9 $$$$ VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT - msg#: 84415)
$$$$ 317.8 $$$$ RobertG (09/12/02; 10:34:31MT - msg#: 84948)
$$$$ 317.7 $$$$ Boilermaker (09/12/02; 10:25:59MT - msg#: 84946)

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - msg#: 84907)
$$$$ 317.4 $$$$ jlfletc (09/12/02; 09:10:05MT - msg#: 84937)

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Artie Farkle (09/04/02; 20:02:53MT - msg#: 84369)

$$$$ 316.8 $$$$ harryo (9/7/02; 14:38:25MT - msg#: 84571)

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT - msg#: 84316)

$$$$ 315.5 $$$$ Christian (9/6/02; 00:11:42MT - msg#: 84471)

$$$$ 315.1 $$$$ Pizz (9/11/02; 11:34:41MT - msg#: 84822)

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ MO VER MEG (09/04/02; 07:34:44MT - msg#: 84312)
$$$$ 314.8 $$$$ Brett Woods (09/12/02; 08:36:16MT - msg#: 84931)
$$$$ 314.7 $$$$ seagull (09/10/02; 15:53:53MT - msg#: 84750)

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Frosty (09/03/02; 18:59:09MT - msg#: 84265)

$$$$ 314.0 $$$$ Flatlander (9/7/02; 07:30:20MT - msg#: 84555)

$$$$ 313.3 $$$$ Woodie (09/03/02; 23:41:11MT - msg#: 84291)

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ SilverHoard (09/04/02; 17:01:10MT - msg#: 84347)

$$$$ 312.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (09/09/02; 23:39:52MT - msg#: 84708)

$$$$ 311.4 $$$$ De Ronin (09/04/02; 12:16:42MT - msg#: 84333)
$$$$ 311.3 $$$$ Au-some (09/09/02; 22:07:13MT - msg#: 84702)

$$$$ 310.0 $$$$ Operative (09/10/02; 14:54:15MT - msg#: 84746)

$$$$ 309.7 $$$$ HopeingII (9/6/02; 21:14:33MT - msg#: 84542)

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ Noble1 (09/04/02; 20:25:58MT - msg#: 84371)

$$$$ 308,0 $$$$ Trurl (09/05/02; 09:33:57MT - msg#: 84408)

$$$$ 307.5 $$$$ silvercollector (09/11/02; 19:54:21MT - msg#: 84856)

$$$$ 295.5 $$$$ Topaz (9/5/02; 01:41:33MT - msg#: 84389)
==


Carl H (09/12/02; 11:42:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 84964)
$$$$ 321.80 $$$$
See my previous post for discussion.

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 11:32:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 84963)
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"
ATTN: Sir Carl H ---- Please try again, as that PRICE was taken ! <;-(

UPDATE # 23 (as of Thursday at ABOUT 1130 Denver time 9/12/02)

PROGNOSTICATIONS -- Listed in descending order of Price.

$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (09/10/02; 20:18:10MT - msg#: 84776)

$$$$ 6,840.2 $$$$ otish mountain (09/12/02; 08:36:08MT - msg#: 84930)

$$$$ 398.6 $$$$ Believer (09/04/02; 18:22:46MT - msg#: 84358)

$$$$ 375.0 $$$$ Henri (09/04/02; 10:58:18MT - msg#: 84326)

$$$$ 362.3 $$$$ NEMO me impune lacessit (09/04/02; 05:21:24MT - msg#: 84304)

$$$$ 354.4 $$$$ perform (09/04/02; 07:34:49MT - msg#: 84313)

$$$$ 353.4 $$$$ darkhorse (09/03/02; 20:56:04MT - msg#: 84280)

$$$$ 349.2 $$$$ mdgc (09/05/02; 15:45:42MT - msg#: 84427)

$$$$ 345.0 $$$$ Socrates964 (09/04/02; 16:11:50MT - msg#: 84344)

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (09/04/02; 21:38:27MT - msg#: 84381)

$$$$ 342.5 $$$$ gvc (09/03/02; 17:08:12MT - msg#: 84255)

$$$$ 341.7 $$$$ old gold (09/04/02; 11:40:02MT - msg#: 84330)

$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (09/03/02; 22:36:21MT - msg#: 84289)

$$$$ 337.0 $$$$ Creosote (09/09/02; 22:08:29MT - msg#: 84703)

$$$$ 336.7 $$$$ sstins (09/12/02; 08:32:28MT - msg#: 84929)

$$$$ 335.4 $$$$ Roger The Shrubber (09/05/02; 08:18:47MT - msg#: 84404)

$$$$ 334.7 $$$$ GoldCoaster (09/05/02; 21:29:56MT - msg#: 84455)

$$$$ 333.7 $$$$ Speedy (09/04/02; 19:15:01MT - msg#: 84366)

$$$$ 333.4 $$$$ Slowman (09/04/02; 20:10:11MT - msg#: 84370)

$$$$ 332.9 $$$$ SWEET 16 (9/7/02; 13:02:34MT - msg#: 84569)

$$$$ 332.5 $$$$ Hipplebeck (9/9/02; 11:52:25MT - msg#: 84676)

$$$$ 332.2 $$$$ BlackBart (9/6/02; 23:09:00MT - msg#: 84544)

$$$$ 332.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (9/7/02; 02:35:37MT - msg#: 84550)

$$$$ 331.3 $$$$ misetich (09/04/02; 05:28:30MT - msg#: 84307)
$$$$ 331.2 $$$$ Pippin (09/04/02; 12:50:09MT - msg#: 84335)

$$$$ 330.9 $$$$ silvester (09/10/02; 20:07:18MT - msg#: 84774)

$$$$ 330.0 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (09/04/02; 19:11:32MT - msg#: 84365)

$$$$ 329.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (09/04/02; 11:36:15MT - msg#: 84329)

$$$$ 329.3 $$$$ mikal (09/04/02; 17:08:29MT - msg#: 84349)
$$$$ 329.2 $$$$ The Hoople (09/04/02; 12:04:30MT - msg#: 84332)

$$$$ 329.0 $$$$ Sundeck (9/11/02; 05:09:56MT - msg#: 84801)

$$$$ 328.8 $$$$ Goldilocks 1 (09/09/02; 21:39:15MT - msg#: 84699)

$$$$ 328.5 $$$$ steady (09/03/02; 20:14:41MT - msg#: 84272)

$$$$ 328.1 $$$$ ha_tey_o (09/04/02; 11:15:13MT - msg#: 84327)

$$$$ 327.9 $$$$ Trapper (09/03/02; 20:12:26MT - msg#: 84271)

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ mudr (9/6/02; 22:47:45MT - msg#: 84543)

$$$$ 327.3 $$$$ luckypierre (09/03/02; 15:20:51MT - msg#: 84244)

$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ DoubleEagle (9/11/02; 22:09:54MT - msg#: 84873)

$$$$ 326.7 $$$$ timbervision (9/11/02; 21:24:16MT - msg#: 84863)

$$$$ 326.5 $$$$ turkey hunter (09/03/02; 18:33:51MT - msg#: 84261)

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ White Rose (09/06/02; 08:23:51MT - msg#: 84503)

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ Galerider (09/03/02; 20:53:27MT - msg#: 84279)

$$$$ 325.3 $$$$ GuyGold (9/11/02; 21:25:02MT - msg#: 84867)
$$$$ 325.2 $$$$ The CoinGuy (09/04/02; 13:00:07MT - msg#: 84338)
$$$$ 325.1 $$$$ sangrelli (9/7/02; 16:43:48MT - msg#: 84575)
$$$$ 325.0 $$$$ compwiz4u (09/12/02; 10:01:47MT - msg#: 84941)
$$$$ 324.9 $$$$ CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:38:13MT - msg#: 84950)

$$$$ 324.7 $$$$ Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - msg#: 84910)

$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Rock (09/04/02; 12:19:18MT - msg#: 84334)
$$$$ 324.4 $$$$ Paper Avalanche (09/12/02; 11:09:21MT - msg#: 84957)
$$$$ 324.3 $$$$ Shermag (9/11/02; 11:17:37MT - msg#: 84820)

$$$$ 324.1 $$$$ Gold Standard (09/04/02; 05:02:31MT - msg#: 84302)

$$$$ 323.7 $$$$ Boxman (9/4/02; 04:27:17MT - msg#: 84301)
$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ Yukon (09/08/02; 22:57:32MT - msg#: 84636)

$$$$ 323.2 $$$$ a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT - msg#: 84229)

$$$$ 323.0 $$$$ RobotGuy (09/12/02; 08:54:01MT - msg#: 84935)

$$$$ 322.8 $$$$ R Powell (09/11/02; 18:24:59MT - msg#: 84846)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$ Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - msg#: 84909)

$$$$ 322.5 $$$$ Gimli_ (09/12/02; 08:45:40MT - msg#: 84933)

$$$$ 322.2 $$$$ Tommy P (09/03/02; 14:33:23MT - msg#: 84233)

$$$$ 322.0 $$$$ Golden Bear (09/11/02; 20:40:34MT - msg#: 84858)
$$$$ 321.9 $$$$ MoonHowler (09/04/02; 21:59:49MT - msg#: 84382)

$$$$ 321.7 $$$$ All Black (9/11/02; 21:25:51MT - msg#: 84866)
$$$$ 321.6 $$$$ sector (09/12/02; 10:56:53MT - msg#: 84953)
$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ Waverider (09/12/02; 08:07:40MT - msg#: 84921)
$$$$ 321.4 $$$$ balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT - msg#: 84353)
$$$$ 321.3 $$$$ goldquest (9/11/02; 00:01:10MT - msg#: 84795)
$$$$ 321.2 $$$$ kramrich (09/12/02; 07:58:11MT - msg#: 84917)
$$$$ 321.1 $$$$ The Knife (09/04/02; 16:30:43MT - msg#: 84345)
$$$$ 321.0 $$$$ Gandalf the White (09/03/02; 12:29:20MT - msg#: 84221)
$$$$ 320.9 $$$$ miner49er (09/12/02; 07:51:47MT - msg#: 84913)
$$$$ 320.8 $$$$ Neubie (9/11/02; 08:25:55MT - msg#: 84810)
$$$$ 320.7 $$$$ BILLYG (9/11/02; 21:33:17MT - msg#: 84868)
$$$$ 320.6 $$$$ Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - msg#: 84905)
$$$$ 320.5 $$$$ cwa (09/10/02; 21:39:38MT - msg#: 84784)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.3 $$$$ Aureo Speedwagon (09/11/02; 15:00:12MT - msg#: 84835)
$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (09/03/02; 13:18:00MT - msg#: 84226)
$$$$ 320.1 $$$$ Truthcaster (09/11/02; 17:28:21MT - msg#: 84843)
$$$$ 320.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (09/03/02; 15:06:26MT - msg#: 84240)
$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Draco (09/10/02; 18:38:08MT - msg#: 84763)
$$$$ 319.8 $$$$ Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT - msg#: 84257)
$$$$ 319.7 $$$$ slingshot (09/03/02; 16:57:17MT - msg#: 84254)
$$$$ 319.6 $$$$ NTgeo (9/6/02; 01:56:11MT - msg#: 84477)
$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ davefinger (09/03/02; 14:52:14MT - msg#: 84235)
$$$$ 319.4 $$$$ koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT - msg#: 84299)
$$$$ 319,3 $$$$ Shanti (09/11/02; 15:09:35MT - msg#: 84836)
$$$$ 319.2 $$$$ Bulldog (09/03/02; 21:53:40MT - msg#: 84288)
$$$$ 319.1 $$$$ Jon (09/12/02; 07:58:43MT - msg#: 84918)
$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Just waking up (09/10/02; 13:46:21MT - msg#: 84737)
$$$$ 318.9 $$$$ Graham (9/11/02; 09:01:37MT - msg#: 84812)
$$$$ 318.8 $$$$ Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - msg#: 84911)
$$$$ 318.7 $$$$ Camel (09/12/02; 08:16:08MT - msg#: 84926)
$$$$ 318.6 $$$$ Kodie (09/03/02; 12:41:26MT - msg#: 84222)
$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ Broken Tee (09/11/02; 12:50:41MT - msg#: 84829)
$$$$ 318.4 $$$$ donnemuir (09/12/02; 10:20:12MT - msg#: 84945)
$$$$ 318.3 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT - msg#: 84755)
$$$$ 318.2 $$$$ Wky_Woodsman (09/12/02; 11:19:14MT - msg#: 84961)
$$$$ 318.1$$$$ wiley (09/11/02; 13:14:39MT - msg#: 84830)

$$$$ 317.9 $$$$ VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT - msg#: 84415)
$$$$ 317.8 $$$$ RobertG (09/12/02; 10:34:31MT - msg#: 84948)
$$$$ 317.7 $$$$ Boilermaker (09/12/02; 10:25:59MT - msg#: 84946)

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - msg#: 84907)
$$$$ 317.4 $$$$ jlfletc (09/12/02; 09:10:05MT - msg#: 84937)

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Artie Farkle (09/04/02; 20:02:53MT - msg#: 84369)

$$$$ 316.8 $$$$ harryo (9/7/02; 14:38:25MT - msg#: 84571)

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT - msg#: 84316)

$$$$ 315.5 $$$$ Christian (9/6/02; 00:11:42MT - msg#: 84471)

$$$$ 315.1 $$$$ Pizz (9/11/02; 11:34:41MT - msg#: 84822)

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ MO VER MEG (09/04/02; 07:34:44MT - msg#: 84312)
$$$$ 314.8 $$$$ Brett Woods (09/12/02; 08:36:16MT - msg#: 84931)
$$$$ 314.7 $$$$ seagull (09/10/02; 15:53:53MT - msg#: 84750)

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Frosty (09/03/02; 18:59:09MT - msg#: 84265)

$$$$ 314.0 $$$$ Flatlander (9/7/02; 07:30:20MT - msg#: 84555)

$$$$ 313.3 $$$$ Woodie (09/03/02; 23:41:11MT - msg#: 84291)

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ SilverHoard (09/04/02; 17:01:10MT - msg#: 84347)

$$$$ 312.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (09/09/02; 23:39:52MT - msg#: 84708)

$$$$ 311.4 $$$$ De Ronin (09/04/02; 12:16:42MT - msg#: 84333)
$$$$ 311.3 $$$$ Au-some (09/09/02; 22:07:13MT - msg#: 84702)

$$$$ 310.0 $$$$ Operative (09/10/02; 14:54:15MT - msg#: 84746)


$$$$ 309.7 $$$$ HopeingII (9/6/02; 21:14:33MT - msg#: 84542)

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ Noble1 (09/04/02; 20:25:58MT - msg#: 84371)

$$$$ 308,0 $$$$ Trurl (09/05/02; 09:33:57MT - msg#: 84408)

$$$$ 307.5 $$$$ silvercollector (09/11/02; 19:54:21MT - msg#: 84856)


$$$$ 295.5 $$$$ Topaz (9/5/02; 01:41:33MT - msg#: 84389)
===

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 11:19:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 84962)
ATTN: Sir Carl H !!!!!!!!!! Sir Sector beat you to this PRICE. Pls try again !!
Carl H (09/12/02; 11:12:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 84959)
$$$$ 321.6 $$$$
==
$$$$ 321.6 $$$$ sector (09/12/02; 10:56:53MT - msg#: 84953
<;-(

Wky_Woodsman (09/12/02; 11:19:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 84961)
Contest
$$$$318.2$$$$
GOLDistruth!Safe in the harbor, the end result of the investment journey on the turbulent seas of life. Steady now and calm. There when it is needed. Wky

sector (09/12/02; 11:18:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 84960)
Regulators Find Another Analyst With Questionable Reports [Perfuming the pigs]
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/09/12/business/12PLAC.html


By GRETCHEN MORGENSON

Securities regulators examining the activities of Wall Street research departments have turned up evidence that an analyst at yet another firm advised investors to buy shares of a company that he acknowledged in an e-mail message were unworthy of purchase.

The correspondence, which dates back to November 2000, also indicates how much influence investment bankers had over a research analyst at the firm, Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette, during the bull market.
Advertisement

The messages, which follow the release of similar ones among Merrill Lynch analysts by the New York attorney general, Eliot Spitzer, may fuel fears by investors that analysts regularly recommended shares publicly while deriding them privately. Several states are sharing resources in their continuing investigation, though Merrill settled its dispute with New York for $100 million without admitting wrongdoing.
+++++++++++++++++++++++

More stench from Wall Street brokerages.


Carl H (09/12/02; 11:12:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 84959)
$$$$ 321.6 $$$$
Is a discussion really necessary? Consider that gold that has been a store of value for 5000 years. The funny little green bits of paper that TPTB push have only been around fore a few decades and in that time they have lost 95% of their value. Is there really any choice?

Got Gold?

Tommy P (09/12/02; 11:10:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 84958)
Prepare for "Wag the Dog"
http://rwor.org/a/v19/940-49/944/lies.htm
So the story goes!

Paper Avalanche (09/12/02; 11:09:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 84957)
$$$$ 324.40 $$$$
I like gold bescuase of the feeling of comfort and security that it provides me. I like being able to see a tangible result of my labor. I like knowing that gold was money before the dollar was ever conceived and will be money when the dollar has passed. I like gold because of the honesty that it implies in fair exchnage and as a store of wealth for generations.

Paper Avalanche

Canuck Gold (09/12/02; 11:05:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 84956)
Sierra Madre (09/12/02; 09:56:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 84940)
You want more objectivity? Good grief, man. I look back on the images of Neville Chamberlain waving his signed pact with Hitler in 1938 and announcing 'peace in our time'. Hitler was buying time until his war machine was ready.

You'd have to be totally naive to believe that Saddam Hussein was not in the WMD business. He doesn't have the industrial might of pre-war Germany but if he ever managed to secure nuclear weapons, do you think he'd hesitate for one minute to blackmail everyone around him? You should know that I am not an American and I agree that there are many actions taken by the Americans that are purely in their own self interests, consequences be damned. Many of these actions are taken to the detriment of other nations and I can understand why a great many people dislike them. However, like it or not, the US is the only nation that can police other nations when they threaten others around them.

I think of the US as the John Wayne character in True Grit, who had lots of quirks and a bloody-minded approach to the execution of his duties. He was essentially a cop who didn't follow the rules but his intent was to see that justice was done.

If we dither in taking action to rein in the likes of Saddam Hussein, the world will become a much more dangerous place for everyone. I don't like the idea of sending the military into Iraq any more than the next man, but someone has to do it. It may all be a pretext to grabbing Iraq's oil, but what if it isn't. Are you really willing to take that chance? And if the US does nothing and there are terrible consequences, what will you say then?

You want objectivity. How about providing some yourself.

CG

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 11:03:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 84955)
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"
ONLY SIXTY (60) minutes for ENTRIES !!!!! TICK TOCK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
UPDATE # 21 (as of Thursday at 1100 Denver time 9/12/02)

PROGNOSTICATIONS -- Listed in descending order of Price.

$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (09/10/02; 20:18:10MT - msg#: 84776)

$$$$ 6,840.2 $$$$ otish mountain (09/12/02; 08:36:08MT - msg#: 84930)

$$$$ 398.6 $$$$ Believer (09/04/02; 18:22:46MT - msg#: 84358)

$$$$ 375.0 $$$$ Henri (09/04/02; 10:58:18MT - msg#: 84326)

$$$$ 362.3 $$$$ NEMO me impune lacessit (09/04/02; 05:21:24MT - msg#: 84304)

$$$$ 354.4 $$$$ perform (09/04/02; 07:34:49MT - msg#: 84313)

$$$$ 353.4 $$$$ darkhorse (09/03/02; 20:56:04MT - msg#: 84280)

$$$$ 349.2 $$$$ mdgc (09/05/02; 15:45:42MT - msg#: 84427)

$$$$ 345.0 $$$$ Socrates964 (09/04/02; 16:11:50MT - msg#: 84344)

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (09/04/02; 21:38:27MT - msg#: 84381)

$$$$ 342.5 $$$$ gvc (09/03/02; 17:08:12MT - msg#: 84255)

$$$$ 341.7 $$$$ old gold (09/04/02; 11:40:02MT - msg#: 84330)

$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (09/03/02; 22:36:21MT - msg#: 84289)

$$$$ 337.0 $$$$ Creosote (09/09/02; 22:08:29MT - msg#: 84703)

$$$$ 336.7 $$$$ sstins (09/12/02; 08:32:28MT - msg#: 84929)

$$$$ 335.4 $$$$ Roger The Shrubber (09/05/02; 08:18:47MT - msg#: 84404)

$$$$ 334.7 $$$$ GoldCoaster (09/05/02; 21:29:56MT - msg#: 84455)

$$$$ 333.7 $$$$ Speedy (09/04/02; 19:15:01MT - msg#: 84366)

$$$$ 333.4 $$$$ Slowman (09/04/02; 20:10:11MT - msg#: 84370)

$$$$ 332.9 $$$$ SWEET 16 (9/7/02; 13:02:34MT - msg#: 84569)

$$$$ 332.5 $$$$ Hipplebeck (9/9/02; 11:52:25MT - msg#: 84676)

$$$$ 332.2 $$$$ BlackBart (9/6/02; 23:09:00MT - msg#: 84544)

$$$$ 332.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (9/7/02; 02:35:37MT - msg#: 84550)

$$$$ 331.3 $$$$ misetich (09/04/02; 05:28:30MT - msg#: 84307)
$$$$ 331.2 $$$$ Pippin (09/04/02; 12:50:09MT - msg#: 84335)

$$$$ 330.9 $$$$ silvester (09/10/02; 20:07:18MT - msg#: 84774)

$$$$ 330.0 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (09/04/02; 19:11:32MT - msg#: 84365)

$$$$ 329.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (09/04/02; 11:36:15MT - msg#: 84329)

$$$$ 329.3 $$$$ mikal (09/04/02; 17:08:29MT - msg#: 84349)
$$$$ 329.2 $$$$ The Hoople (09/04/02; 12:04:30MT - msg#: 84332)

$$$$ 329.0 $$$$ Sundeck (9/11/02; 05:09:56MT - msg#: 84801)

$$$$ 328.8 $$$$ Goldilocks 1 (09/09/02; 21:39:15MT - msg#: 84699)

$$$$ 328.5 $$$$ steady (09/03/02; 20:14:41MT - msg#: 84272)

$$$$ 328.1 $$$$ ha_tey_o (09/04/02; 11:15:13MT - msg#: 84327)

$$$$ 327.9 $$$$ Trapper (09/03/02; 20:12:26MT - msg#: 84271)

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ mudr (9/6/02; 22:47:45MT - msg#: 84543)

$$$$ 327.3 $$$$ luckypierre (09/03/02; 15:20:51MT - msg#: 84244)

$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ DoubleEagle (9/11/02; 22:09:54MT - msg#: 84873)

$$$$ 326.7 $$$$ timbervision (9/11/02; 21:24:16MT - msg#: 84863)

$$$$ 326.5 $$$$ turkey hunter (09/03/02; 18:33:51MT - msg#: 84261)

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ White Rose (09/06/02; 08:23:51MT - msg#: 84503)

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ Galerider (09/03/02; 20:53:27MT - msg#: 84279)

$$$$ 325.3 $$$$ GuyGold (9/11/02; 21:25:02MT - msg#: 84867)
$$$$ 325.2 $$$$ The CoinGuy (09/04/02; 13:00:07MT - msg#: 84338)
$$$$ 325.1 $$$$ sangrelli (9/7/02; 16:43:48MT - msg#: 84575)
$$$$ 325.0 $$$$ compwiz4u (09/12/02; 10:01:47MT - msg#: 84941)
$$$$ 324.9 $$$$ CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:38:13MT - msg#: 84950)

$$$$ 324.7 $$$$ Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - msg#: 84910)

$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Rock (09/04/02; 12:19:18MT - msg#: 84334)

$$$$ 324.3 $$$$ Shermag (9/11/02; 11:17:37MT - msg#: 84820)

$$$$ 324.1 $$$$ Gold Standard (09/04/02; 05:02:31MT - msg#: 84302)

$$$$ 323.7 $$$$ Boxman (9/4/02; 04:27:17MT - msg#: 84301)
$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ Yukon (09/08/02; 22:57:32MT - msg#: 84636)

$$$$ 323.2 $$$$ a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT - msg#: 84229)

$$$$ 323.0 $$$$ RobotGuy (09/12/02; 08:54:01MT - msg#: 84935)

$$$$ 322.8 $$$$ R Powell (09/11/02; 18:24:59MT - msg#: 84846)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$ Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - msg#: 84909)

$$$$ 322.5 $$$$ Gimli_ (09/12/02; 08:45:40MT - msg#: 84933)

$$$$ 322.2 $$$$ Tommy P (09/03/02; 14:33:23MT - msg#: 84233)

$$$$ 322.0 $$$$ Golden Bear (09/11/02; 20:40:34MT - msg#: 84858)
$$$$ 321.9 $$$$ MoonHowler (09/04/02; 21:59:49MT - msg#: 84382)

$$$$ 321.7 $$$$ All Black (9/11/02; 21:25:51MT - msg#: 84866)
$$$$ 321.6 $$$$ sector (09/12/02; 10:56:53MT - msg#: 84953)
$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ Waverider (09/12/02; 08:07:40MT - msg#: 84921)
$$$$ 321.4 $$$$ balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT - msg#: 84353)
$$$$ 321.3 $$$$ goldquest (9/11/02; 00:01:10MT - msg#: 84795)
$$$$ 321.2 $$$$ kramrich (09/12/02; 07:58:11MT - msg#: 84917)
$$$$ 321.1 $$$$ The Knife (09/04/02; 16:30:43MT - msg#: 84345)
$$$$ 321.0 $$$$ Gandalf the White (09/03/02; 12:29:20MT - msg#: 84221)
$$$$ 320.9 $$$$ miner49er (09/12/02; 07:51:47MT - msg#: 84913)
$$$$ 320.8 $$$$ Neubie (9/11/02; 08:25:55MT - msg#: 84810)
$$$$ 320.7 $$$$ BILLYG (9/11/02; 21:33:17MT - msg#: 84868)
$$$$ 320.6 $$$$ Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - msg#: 84905)
$$$$ 320.5 $$$$ cwa (09/10/02; 21:39:38MT - msg#: 84784)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.3 $$$$ Aureo Speedwagon (09/11/02; 15:00:12MT - msg#: 84835)
$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (09/03/02; 13:18:00MT - msg#: 84226)
$$$$ 320.1 $$$$ Truthcaster (09/11/02; 17:28:21MT - msg#: 84843)
$$$$ 320.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (09/03/02; 15:06:26MT - msg#: 84240)
$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Draco (09/10/02; 18:38:08MT - msg#: 84763)
$$$$ 319.8 $$$$ Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT - msg#: 84257)
$$$$ 319.7 $$$$ slingshot (09/03/02; 16:57:17MT - msg#: 84254)
$$$$ 319.6 $$$$ NTgeo (9/6/02; 01:56:11MT - msg#: 84477)
$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ davefinger (09/03/02; 14:52:14MT - msg#: 84235)
$$$$ 319.4 $$$$ koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT - msg#: 84299)
$$$$ 319,3 $$$$ Shanti (09/11/02; 15:09:35MT - msg#: 84836)
$$$$ 319.2 $$$$ Bulldog (09/03/02; 21:53:40MT - msg#: 84288)
$$$$ 319.1 $$$$ Jon (09/12/02; 07:58:43MT - msg#: 84918)
$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Just waking up (09/10/02; 13:46:21MT - msg#: 84737)
$$$$ 318.9 $$$$ Graham (9/11/02; 09:01:37MT - msg#: 84812)
$$$$ 318.8 $$$$ Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - msg#: 84911)
$$$$ 318.7 $$$$ Camel (09/12/02; 08:16:08MT - msg#: 84926)
$$$$ 318.6 $$$$ Kodie (09/03/02; 12:41:26MT - msg#: 84222)
$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ Broken Tee (09/11/02; 12:50:41MT - msg#: 84829)
$$$$ 318.4 $$$$ donnemuir (09/12/02; 10:20:12MT - msg#: 84945)
$$$$ 318.3 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT - msg#: 84755)

$$$$ 318.1$$$$ wiley (09/11/02; 13:14:39MT - msg#: 84830)

$$$$ 317.9 $$$$ VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT - msg#: 84415)
$$$$ 317.8 $$$$ RobertG (09/12/02; 10:34:31MT - msg#: 84948)
$$$$ 317.7 $$$$ Boilermaker (09/12/02; 10:25:59MT - msg#: 84946)

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - msg#: 84907)
$$$$ 317.4 $$$$ jlfletc (09/12/02; 09:10:05MT - msg#: 84937)

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Artie Farkle (09/04/02; 20:02:53MT - msg#: 84369)

$$$$ 316.8 $$$$ harryo (9/7/02; 14:38:25MT - msg#: 84571)

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT - msg#: 84316)

$$$$ 315.5 $$$$ Christian (9/6/02; 00:11:42MT - msg#: 84471)

$$$$ 315.1 $$$$ Pizz (9/11/02; 11:34:41MT - msg#: 84822)

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ MO VER MEG (09/04/02; 07:34:44MT - msg#: 84312)
$$$$ 314.8 $$$$ Brett Woods (09/12/02; 08:36:16MT - msg#: 84931)
$$$$ 314.7 $$$$ seagull (09/10/02; 15:53:53MT - msg#: 84750)

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Frosty (09/03/02; 18:59:09MT - msg#: 84265)

$$$$ 314.0 $$$$ Flatlander (9/7/02; 07:30:20MT - msg#: 84555)

$$$$ 313.3 $$$$ Woodie (09/03/02; 23:41:11MT - msg#: 84291)

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ SilverHoard (09/04/02; 17:01:10MT - msg#: 84347)

$$$$ 312.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (09/09/02; 23:39:52MT - msg#: 84708)

$$$$ 311.4 $$$$ De Ronin (09/04/02; 12:16:42MT - msg#: 84333)
$$$$ 311.3 $$$$ Au-some (09/09/02; 22:07:13MT - msg#: 84702)

$$$$ 310.0 $$$$ Operative (09/10/02; 14:54:15MT - msg#: 84746)


$$$$ 309.7 $$$$ HopeingII (9/6/02; 21:14:33MT - msg#: 84542)

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ Noble1 (09/04/02; 20:25:58MT - msg#: 84371)

$$$$ 308,0 $$$$ Trurl (09/05/02; 09:33:57MT - msg#: 84408)

$$$$ 307.5 $$$$ silvercollector (09/11/02; 19:54:21MT - msg#: 84856)

$$$$ 295.5 $$$$ Topaz (9/5/02; 01:41:33MT - msg#: 84389)

===


Carl H (09/12/02; 10:57:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 84954)
U.S. assumes underfunded Polaroid pension plan
http://biz.yahoo.com/rc/020912/tech_polaroid_1.html
WASHINGTON, Sept 12 (Reuters) - The underfunded pension obligations to 11,000 former employees of bankrupt instant photography giant Polaroid Corp. have been assumed by the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp., the federal agency said on Thursday.

--- SNIP ---

CarlH: As an office mate of mine once said -- "The game's not over till the tax payer screams."

Got Gold?


sector (09/12/02; 10:56:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 84953)
$$$$321.6$$$$
Nice comfy feeling.

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 10:42:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 84952)
Got it ! Thanks for coming back SIR CoBra(too) ! <;-)
CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:38:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 84950)
$$$$324.90$$$$ - New Entry


Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 10:39:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 84951)
Thanks Sir RobertG ! Got the second one ! <;-)
RobertG (09/12/02; 10:34:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 84948)

CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:38:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 84950)
$$$$324.90$$$$ - New Entry
Thank you Gandalf the White Hobbit - Great job! - cb2

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 10:34:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 84949)
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"
LESS THAN 90 minutes to GO ! COME BACK Sir CoBra(too) !!!
UPDATE # 20 (as of Thursday at 1030 Denver time 9/12/02

PROGNOSTICATIONS -- Listed in descending order of Price.

$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (09/10/02; 20:18:10MT - msg#: 84776)

$$$$ 6,840.2 $$$$ otish mountain (09/12/02; 08:36:08MT - msg#: 84930)

$$$$ 398.6 $$$$ Believer (09/04/02; 18:22:46MT - msg#: 84358)

$$$$ 375.0 $$$$ Henri (09/04/02; 10:58:18MT - msg#: 84326)

$$$$ 362.3 $$$$ NEMO me impune lacessit (09/04/02; 05:21:24MT - msg#: 84304)

$$$$ 354.4 $$$$ perform (09/04/02; 07:34:49MT - msg#: 84313)

$$$$ 353.4 $$$$ darkhorse (09/03/02; 20:56:04MT - msg#: 84280)

$$$$ 349.2 $$$$ mdgc (09/05/02; 15:45:42MT - msg#: 84427)

$$$$ 345.0 $$$$ Socrates964 (09/04/02; 16:11:50MT - msg#: 84344)

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (09/04/02; 21:38:27MT - msg#: 84381)

$$$$ 342.5 $$$$ gvc (09/03/02; 17:08:12MT - msg#: 84255)

$$$$ 341.7 $$$$ old gold (09/04/02; 11:40:02MT - msg#: 84330)


$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (09/03/02; 22:36:21MT - msg#: 84289)

$$$$ 337.0 $$$$ Creosote (09/09/02; 22:08:29MT - msg#: 84703)

$$$$ 336.7 $$$$ sstins (09/12/02; 08:32:28MT - msg#: 84929)

$$$$ 335.4 $$$$ Roger The Shrubber (09/05/02; 08:18:47MT - msg#: 84404)

$$$$ 334.7 $$$$ GoldCoaster (09/05/02; 21:29:56MT - msg#: 84455)

$$$$ 333.7 $$$$ Speedy (09/04/02; 19:15:01MT - msg#: 84366)

$$$$ 333.4 $$$$ Slowman (09/04/02; 20:10:11MT - msg#: 84370)

$$$$ 332.9 $$$$ SWEET 16 (9/7/02; 13:02:34MT - msg#: 84569)

$$$$ 332.5 $$$$ Hipplebeck (9/9/02; 11:52:25MT - msg#: 84676)

$$$$ 332.2 $$$$ BlackBart (9/6/02; 23:09:00MT - msg#: 84544)

$$$$ 332.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (9/7/02; 02:35:37MT - msg#: 84550)

$$$$ 331.3 $$$$ misetich (09/04/02; 05:28:30MT - msg#: 84307)
$$$$ 331.2 $$$$ Pippin (09/04/02; 12:50:09MT - msg#: 84335)

$$$$ 330.9 $$$$ silvester (09/10/02; 20:07:18MT - msg#: 84774)

$$$$ 330.0 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (09/04/02; 19:11:32MT - msg#: 84365)


$$$$ 329.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (09/04/02; 11:36:15MT - msg#: 84329)

$$$$ 329.3 $$$$ mikal (09/04/02; 17:08:29MT - msg#: 84349)
$$$$ 329.2 $$$$ The Hoople (09/04/02; 12:04:30MT - msg#: 84332)

$$$$ 329.0 $$$$ Sundeck (9/11/02; 05:09:56MT - msg#: 84801)

$$$$ 328.8 $$$$ Goldilocks 1 (09/09/02; 21:39:15MT - msg#: 84699)

$$$$ 328.5 $$$$ steady (09/03/02; 20:14:41MT - msg#: 84272)

$$$$ 328.1 $$$$ ha_tey_o (09/04/02; 11:15:13MT - msg#: 84327)

$$$$ 327.9 $$$$ Trapper (09/03/02; 20:12:26MT - msg#: 84271)

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ mudr (9/6/02; 22:47:45MT - msg#: 84543)

$$$$ 327.3 $$$$ luckypierre (09/03/02; 15:20:51MT - msg#: 84244)

$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ DoubleEagle (9/11/02; 22:09:54MT - msg#: 84873)

$$$$ 326.7 $$$$ timbervision (9/11/02; 21:24:16MT - msg#: 84863)

$$$$ 326.5 $$$$ turkey hunter (09/03/02; 18:33:51MT - msg#: 84261)

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ White Rose (09/06/02; 08:23:51MT - msg#: 84503)

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ Galerider (09/03/02; 20:53:27MT - msg#: 84279)

$$$$ 325.3 $$$$ GuyGold (9/11/02; 21:25:02MT - msg#: 84867)
$$$$ 325.2 $$$$ The CoinGuy (09/04/02; 13:00:07MT - msg#: 84338)
$$$$ 325.1 $$$$ sangrelli (9/7/02; 16:43:48MT - msg#: 84575)
$$$$ 325.0 $$$$ compwiz4u (09/12/02; 10:01:47MT - msg#: 84941)

$$$$ 324.7 $$$$ Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - msg#: 84910)

$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Rock (09/04/02; 12:19:18MT - msg#: 84334)

$$$$ 324.3 $$$$ Shermag (9/11/02; 11:17:37MT - msg#: 84820)

$$$$ 324.1 $$$$ Gold Standard (09/04/02; 05:02:31MT - msg#: 84302)

$$$$ 323.7 $$$$ Boxman (9/4/02; 04:27:17MT - msg#: 84301)
$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ Yukon (09/08/02; 22:57:32MT - msg#: 84636)

$$$$ 323.2 $$$$ a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT - msg#: 84229)

$$$$ 323.0 $$$$ RobotGuy (09/12/02; 08:54:01MT - msg#: 84935)

$$$$ 322.8 $$$$ R Powell (09/11/02; 18:24:59MT - msg#: 84846)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$ Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - msg#: 84909)

$$$$ 322.5 $$$$ Gimli_ (09/12/02; 08:45:40MT - msg#: 84933)

$$$$ 322.2 $$$$ Tommy P (09/03/02; 14:33:23MT - msg#: 84233)

$$$$ 322.0 $$$$ Golden Bear (09/11/02; 20:40:34MT - msg#: 84858)
$$$$ 321.9 $$$$ MoonHowler (09/04/02; 21:59:49MT - msg#: 84382)

$$$$ 321.7 $$$$ All Black (9/11/02; 21:25:51MT - msg#: 84866)

$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ Waverider (09/12/02; 08:07:40MT - msg#: 84921)
$$$$ 321.4 $$$$ balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT - msg#: 84353)
$$$$ 321.3 $$$$ goldquest (9/11/02; 00:01:10MT - msg#: 84795)
$$$$ 321.2 $$$$ kramrich (09/12/02; 07:58:11MT - msg#: 84917)
$$$$ 321.1 $$$$ The Knife (09/04/02; 16:30:43MT - msg#: 84345)
$$$$ 321.0 $$$$ Gandalf the White (09/03/02; 12:29:20MT - msg#: 84221)
$$$$ 320.9 $$$$ miner49er (09/12/02; 07:51:47MT - msg#: 84913)
$$$$ 320.8 $$$$ Neubie (9/11/02; 08:25:55MT - msg#: 84810)
$$$$ 320.7 $$$$ BILLYG (9/11/02; 21:33:17MT - msg#: 84868)
$$$$ 320.6 $$$$ Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - msg#: 84905)
$$$$ 320.5 $$$$ cwa (09/10/02; 21:39:38MT - msg#: 84784)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.3 $$$$ Aureo Speedwagon (09/11/02; 15:00:12MT - msg#: 84835)
$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (09/03/02; 13:18:00MT - msg#: 84226)
$$$$ 320.1 $$$$ Truthcaster (09/11/02; 17:28:21MT - msg#: 84843)
$$$$ 320.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (09/03/02; 15:06:26MT - msg#: 84240)
$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Draco (09/10/02; 18:38:08MT - msg#: 84763)
$$$$ 319.8 $$$$ Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT - msg#: 84257)
$$$$ 319.7 $$$$ slingshot (09/03/02; 16:57:17MT - msg#: 84254)
$$$$ 319.6 $$$$ NTgeo (9/6/02; 01:56:11MT - msg#: 84477)
$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ davefinger (09/03/02; 14:52:14MT - msg#: 84235)
$$$$ 319.4 $$$$ koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT - msg#: 84299)
$$$$ 319,3 $$$$ Shanti (09/11/02; 15:09:35MT - msg#: 84836)
$$$$ 319.2 $$$$ Bulldog (09/03/02; 21:53:40MT - msg#: 84288)
$$$$ 319.1 $$$$ Jon (09/12/02; 07:58:43MT - msg#: 84918)
$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Just waking up (09/10/02; 13:46:21MT - msg#: 84737)
$$$$ 318.9 $$$$ Graham (9/11/02; 09:01:37MT - msg#: 84812)
$$$$ 318.8 $$$$ Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - msg#: 84911)
$$$$ 318.7 $$$$ Camel (09/12/02; 08:16:08MT - msg#: 84926)
$$$$ 318.6 $$$$ Kodie (09/03/02; 12:41:26MT - msg#: 84222)
$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ Broken Tee (09/11/02; 12:50:41MT - msg#: 84829)
$$$$ 318.4 $$$$ donnemuir (09/12/02; 10:20:12MT - msg#: 84945)
$$$$ 318.3 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT - msg#: 84755)

$$$$ 318.1$$$$ wiley (09/11/02; 13:14:39MT - msg#: 84830)

$$$$ 317.9 $$$$ VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT - msg#: 84415)

$$$$ 317.7 $$$$ Boilermaker (09/12/02; 10:25:59MT - msg#: 84946)

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - msg#: 84907)
$$$$ 317.4 $$$$ jlfletc (09/12/02; 09:10:05MT - msg#: 84937)

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Artie Farkle (09/04/02; 20:02:53MT - msg#: 84369)

$$$$ 316.8 $$$$ harryo (9/7/02; 14:38:25MT - msg#: 84571)

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT - msg#: 84316)

$$$$ 315.5 $$$$ Christian (9/6/02; 00:11:42MT - msg#: 84471)

$$$$ 315.1 $$$$ Pizz (9/11/02; 11:34:41MT - msg#: 84822)

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ MO VER MEG (09/04/02; 07:34:44MT - msg#: 84312)
$$$$ 314.8 $$$$ Brett Woods (09/12/02; 08:36:16MT - msg#: 84931)
$$$$ 314.7 $$$$ seagull (09/10/02; 15:53:53MT - msg#: 84750)

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Frosty (09/03/02; 18:59:09MT - msg#: 84265)

$$$$ 314.0 $$$$ Flatlander (9/7/02; 07:30:20MT - msg#: 84555)

$$$$ 313.3 $$$$ Woodie (09/03/02; 23:41:11MT - msg#: 84291)

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ SilverHoard (09/04/02; 17:01:10MT - msg#: 84347)

$$$$ 312.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (09/09/02; 23:39:52MT - msg#: 84708)

$$$$ 311.4 $$$$ De Ronin (09/04/02; 12:16:42MT - msg#: 84333)
$$$$ 311.3 $$$$ Au-some (09/09/02; 22:07:13MT - msg#: 84702)

$$$$ 310.0 $$$$ Operative (09/10/02; 14:54:15MT - msg#: 84746)


$$$$ 309.7 $$$$ HopeingII (9/6/02; 21:14:33MT - msg#: 84542)

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ Noble1 (09/04/02; 20:25:58MT - msg#: 84371)

$$$$ 308,0 $$$$ Trurl (09/05/02; 09:33:57MT - msg#: 84408)

$$$$ 307.5 $$$$ silvercollector (09/11/02; 19:54:21MT - msg#: 84856)


$$$$ 295.5 $$$$ Topaz (9/5/02; 01:41:33MT - msg#: 84389)
==
<;-)


RobertG (09/12/02; 10:34:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 84948)
Contest
I guess Boilermaker got in ahead of me so make my guess $$$317.80$$$.

RobertG (09/12/02; 10:30:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 84947)
Contest
$$$317.70$$$$ Just filling a gap. Like most of the others I believe gold will eventually rise in value. Be it in a matter of months or a matter of many more years no one knows.

Boilermaker (09/12/02; 10:25:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 84946)
$$$$$317.70$$$$$
Until four years ago I invested in gold strictly as a logical contrary backup insurance policy as our fine host MK has suggested. However, now knowing the forces of evil that have been crushing the gold market, I am buying gold not only as insurance but also to do my part to bring down the corrupt people and system that perpetrates this fiat scheme.

donnemuir (09/12/02; 10:20:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 84945)
$$$$318.4$$$$
It's hereditary, my Scottish Grandfather gave me my first gold coin when I was 12 years old and one each birthday thereafter until I graduated high school....with the admonishment "Dunnie don't let 'ur gold see the light of day".

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 10:14:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 84944)
ATTN: SIR CoBra(too) --- Someone beat you by 4 Minutes !
CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:05:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 84942)
$$$$ 325.-$$$$
====
PLEASE RE-ENTER !
Tks
<;-)

CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:10:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 84943)
@Mr. G.
Also read somewhere that the SnP futures closed at 911 on Sept. 10.
Coincidence? ... Best cb2

CoBra(too) (09/12/02; 10:05:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 84942)
$$$$ 325.-$$$$
We will see 325, a pivotal point being taken out and freeing the POG to the upside.

As we are only in the very early stages of a long term bull market in gold and other precious metals and real hard assets, such as most commodities are alraedy experiencing price appreciation. Inflationary forces, long suppressed by strong $ policies will slowly emerge in spite of the deflationary effect of imploding financial asset bubbles built on overwhelming credit. Housing, one of the last strongholds of the wealth effect is also showing early signs of fatigue.

The overpowering debt situation across the spectre, consumers, corporate and government, though beyond redeemability is only a pittance in view of the potential liabilities of derivative bets in the financial casino sector.

Main Street has to be kept in check by mirages of newfound patriotism and international solidarity in fighting terrorism. The postulated need for additional security is slowly eroding the last liberties, while the PTB seeks to hide the slow motion erosion of the financial independence and the destiny of its future serfs.

Gold - the only independent reserve asset and no-ones' liability is the last bastion of liquidity - and gold is money and will be the only acceptable cash in the times ahead.

In this sense - HAPPY BIRTHDAY USAGOLD - MK and his team. What a wondeful experience it has been to be able to participate on this magnificent site and its contributors.

Is there a better compliment as to feel it's your own birthday you celebrate - thanks to all of you - cb2


compwiz4u (09/12/02; 10:01:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 84941)
$$$$ 325.00 $$$$$
This grand experiment with worldwide fiat currency has failed. I am worried for my children and their children as we and our leaders have allowed this gradual, multi-decade currency destruction to occur.

There will be no Social Security funds in the future as its surplus is all IOUs of a bankrupt country. I am worried of the impact on and reaction from the general public as they realize they have been cheated and lied to by their government.

The US never paid down its total debt, they just shifted the debt from "Debt to the Public" to "Intra-governmental debt", i.e., debt among government entities. Both political parties proclaimed they were paying down the debt for political gain.

As a result, IMHO, I believe gold and silver will eventually be demanded to be a percentage of whatever Social Security is replaced with and fiat currency will also require a gradual return to backing with hard assets...all payable upon demand.

Finally, I love this forum. Best wishes and thanks to all the knights and maidens for sharing your thoughts and inspirations.

Sierra Madre (09/12/02; 09:56:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 84940)
US Gov't wants to be Plaintiff, Judge AND Jury against Iraq
Canuck Gold: A little more objectivity would be appreciated.

"Canuck Gold (09/12/02; 07:54:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 84914)
Golden Bear (9/12/02; 02:36:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 84891)
I wonder what your response would be if you had good reason to believe your neighbour had a biochemical and nuclear
weapons lab in his basement. Would you still want him to be allowed to continue unmolested until solid proof of his activities
was found? CG"

Mexico is quite worried about "activities" of the U.S. (GOVERNMENT) Our neighbor to the north is obsessed with warfare; guns, killing and explosions and constant video of weaponry seem to be a favorite of T.V. U.S. a peaceloving nation? The U.S. is a warlike, extremely warlike nation.

A great many good, peaceloving individuals are Americans, but American CULTURE is not peaceloving. Sorry to say so, folks, you know I am not referring the mayority of posters on this forum, who are my spiritual brothers.

Who is desperately pushing war? GWB - certainly not Saddam Hussein.

I remember McCarthy; he was stopped when someone asked him, in Congress, "Sir, have you no decency?" Maybe someone should be asking GWB the same question. I ask this, because GWB is threatening the whole earth with consequences of his insanity - it cannot be anything less - and my family and I, your humble servants, happen to live on this earth, too.

Sierra

Canuck Gold (09/12/02; 09:27:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 84939)
Hipplebeck (09/12/02; 08:14:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 84924)
Where I come from, they haven't yet degenerated into shooting concerned citizens. You would have a problem convincing a judge to issue a search warrant based on my previous statement, but if you really need to satisfy your curiosity, be my guest. I would expect you to be courteous and respectful of my property. I am not engaged in illegal or dangerous activities, but if you trash my house without cause, I'll sue your a$$ off.

CG

Mr Gresham (09/12/02; 09:23:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 84938)
It really did happen
http://www.nylottery.org/winner/c_winner.php
The evening 3-digit New York Lottery number was 9,1,1.

So, either this world is crazier than you or I pondering here at USAGold can fathom in our wildest (or perhaps just 1-in-1000 odds) moments

-- or --

everything about New York City is a fix, and the fix is ALWAYS in.

Whaddya think?

jlfletc (09/12/02; 09:10:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 84937)
$$$$317.4$$$$$
I buy PMs because of their inherent value historically. I still can't quite grasp why a hunk of yellow, or silver, metal, out of the ground, would ever be worth anything to anybody, and that's why I'm hedged with beans, band-aids, and bullets as well, but I can't ignore the fact, that for thousands of years, these metals have invariably been in demand. As a Christian, I see that the Bible is filled with references to silver and gold as something of value, even as the very currency itself. There are also references to gold and silver being used as construction materials in Heaven. If God saw fit to leave a little hint of Heaven on His Earthly Creation, who am I to not pick up a bit of it myself while I'm here, especially while it's so undervalued in these cruddy dollars. May God Bless you all!

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 09:01:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 84936)
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"
THREE HOURS to GO ! Tick tock !!!
UPDATE #19 (as of Thursday at 0900 Denver time 9/12/02)
===

PROGNOSTICATIONS -- Listed in descending order of Price.

$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (09/10/02; 20:18:10MT - msg#: 84776)

$$$$ 6,840.2 $$$$ otish mountain (09/12/02; 08:36:08MT - msg#: 84930)

$$$$ 398.6 $$$$ Believer (09/04/02; 18:22:46MT - msg#: 84358)

$$$$ 375.0 $$$$ Henri (09/04/02; 10:58:18MT - msg#: 84326)

$$$$ 362.3 $$$$ NEMO me impune lacessit (09/04/02; 05:21:24MT - msg#: 84304)

$$$$ 354.4 $$$$ perform (09/04/02; 07:34:49MT - msg#: 84313)

$$$$ 353.4 $$$$ darkhorse (09/03/02; 20:56:04MT - msg#: 84280)

$$$$ 349.2 $$$$ mdgc (09/05/02; 15:45:42MT - msg#: 84427)

$$$$ 345.0 $$$$ Socrates964 (09/04/02; 16:11:50MT - msg#: 84344)

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (09/04/02; 21:38:27MT - msg#: 84381)

$$$$ 342.5 $$$$ gvc (09/03/02; 17:08:12MT - msg#: 84255)

$$$$ 341.7 $$$$ old gold (09/04/02; 11:40:02MT - msg#: 84330)


$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (09/03/02; 22:36:21MT - msg#: 84289)

$$$$ 337.0 $$$$ Creosote (09/09/02; 22:08:29MT - msg#: 84703)

$$$$ 336.7 $$$$ sstins (09/12/02; 08:32:28MT - msg#: 84929)

$$$$ 335.4 $$$$ Roger The Shrubber (09/05/02; 08:18:47MT - msg#: 84404)

$$$$ 334.7 $$$$ GoldCoaster (09/05/02; 21:29:56MT - msg#: 84455)

$$$$ 333.7 $$$$ Speedy (09/04/02; 19:15:01MT - msg#: 84366)

$$$$ 333.4 $$$$ Slowman (09/04/02; 20:10:11MT - msg#: 84370)

$$$$ 332.9 $$$$ SWEET 16 (9/7/02; 13:02:34MT - msg#: 84569)

$$$$ 332.5 $$$$ Hipplebeck (9/9/02; 11:52:25MT - msg#: 84676)

$$$$ 332.2 $$$$ BlackBart (9/6/02; 23:09:00MT - msg#: 84544)

$$$$ 332.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (9/7/02; 02:35:37MT - msg#: 84550)

$$$$ 331.3 $$$$ misetich (09/04/02; 05:28:30MT - msg#: 84307)
$$$$ 331.2 $$$$ Pippin (09/04/02; 12:50:09MT - msg#: 84335)

$$$$ 330.9 $$$$ silvester (09/10/02; 20:07:18MT - msg#: 84774)

$$$$ 330.0 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (09/04/02; 19:11:32MT - msg#: 84365)


$$$$ 329.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (09/04/02; 11:36:15MT - msg#: 84329)

$$$$ 329.3 $$$$ mikal (09/04/02; 17:08:29MT - msg#: 84349)
$$$$ 329.2 $$$$ The Hoople (09/04/02; 12:04:30MT - msg#: 84332)

$$$$ 329.0 $$$$ Sundeck (9/11/02; 05:09:56MT - msg#: 84801)

$$$$ 328.8 $$$$ Goldilocks 1 (09/09/02; 21:39:15MT - msg#: 84699)

$$$$ 328.5 $$$$ steady (09/03/02; 20:14:41MT - msg#: 84272)

$$$$ 328.1 $$$$ ha_tey_o (09/04/02; 11:15:13MT - msg#: 84327)

$$$$ 327.9 $$$$ Trapper (09/03/02; 20:12:26MT - msg#: 84271)

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ mudr (9/6/02; 22:47:45MT - msg#: 84543)

$$$$ 327.3 $$$$ luckypierre (09/03/02; 15:20:51MT - msg#: 84244)

$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ DoubleEagle (9/11/02; 22:09:54MT - msg#: 84873)

$$$$ 326.7 $$$$ timbervision (9/11/02; 21:24:16MT - msg#: 84863)

$$$$ 326.5 $$$$ turkey hunter (09/03/02; 18:33:51MT - msg#: 84261)

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ White Rose (09/06/02; 08:23:51MT - msg#: 84503)

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ Galerider (09/03/02; 20:53:27MT - msg#: 84279)

$$$$ 325.3 $$$$ GuyGold (9/11/02; 21:25:02MT - msg#: 84867)
$$$$ 325.2 $$$$ The CoinGuy (09/04/02; 13:00:07MT - msg#: 84338)
$$$$ 325.1 $$$$ sangrelli (9/7/02; 16:43:48MT - msg#: 84575)

$$$$ 324.7 $$$$ Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - msg#: 84910)

$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Rock (09/04/02; 12:19:18MT - msg#: 84334)

$$$$ 324.3 $$$$ Shermag (9/11/02; 11:17:37MT - msg#: 84820)

$$$$ 324.1 $$$$ Gold Standard (09/04/02; 05:02:31MT - msg#: 84302)

$$$$ 323.7 $$$$ Boxman (9/4/02; 04:27:17MT - msg#: 84301)
$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ Yukon (09/08/02; 22:57:32MT - msg#: 84636)

$$$$ 323.2 $$$$ a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT - msg#: 84229)

$$$$323.0 $$$$ RobotGuy (09/12/02; 08:54:01MT - msg#: 84935)

$$$$ 322.8 $$$$ R Powell (09/11/02; 18:24:59MT - msg#: 84846)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$ Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - msg#: 84909)

$$$$ 322.5 $$$$ Gimli_ (09/12/02; 08:45:40MT - msg#: 84933)

$$$$ 322.2 $$$$ Tommy P (09/03/02; 14:33:23MT - msg#: 84233)

$$$$ 322.0 $$$$ Golden Bear (09/11/02; 20:40:34MT - msg#: 84858)
$$$$ 321.9 $$$$ MoonHowler (09/04/02; 21:59:49MT - msg#: 84382)

$$$$ 321.7 $$$$ All Black (9/11/02; 21:25:51MT - msg#: 84866)

$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ Waverider (09/12/02; 08:07:40MT - msg#: 84921)
$$$$ 321.4 $$$$ balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT - msg#: 84353)
$$$$ 321.3 $$$$ goldquest (9/11/02; 00:01:10MT - msg#: 84795)
$$$$ 321.2 $$$$ kramrich (09/12/02; 07:58:11MT - msg#: 84917)
$$$$ 321.1 $$$$ The Knife (09/04/02; 16:30:43MT - msg#: 84345)
$$$$ 321.0 $$$$ Gandalf the White (09/03/02; 12:29:20MT - msg#: 84221)
$$$$ 320.9 $$$$ miner49er (09/12/02; 07:51:47MT - msg#: 84913)
$$$$ 320.8 $$$$ Neubie (9/11/02; 08:25:55MT - msg#: 84810)
$$$$ 320.7 $$$$ BILLYG (9/11/02; 21:33:17MT - msg#: 84868)
$$$$ 320.6 $$$$ Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - msg#: 84905)
$$$$ 320.5 $$$$ cwa (09/10/02; 21:39:38MT - msg#: 84784)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.3 $$$$ Aureo Speedwagon (09/11/02; 15:00:12MT - msg#: 84835)
$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (09/03/02; 13:18:00MT - msg#: 84226)
$$$$ 320.1 $$$$ Truthcaster (09/11/02; 17:28:21MT - msg#: 84843)
$$$$ 320.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (09/03/02; 15:06:26MT - msg#: 84240)
$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Draco (09/10/02; 18:38:08MT - msg#: 84763)
$$$$ 319.8 $$$$ Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT - msg#: 84257)
$$$$ 319.7 $$$$ slingshot (09/03/02; 16:57:17MT - msg#: 84254)
$$$$ 319.6 $$$$ NTgeo (9/6/02; 01:56:11MT - msg#: 84477)
$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ davefinger (09/03/02; 14:52:14MT - msg#: 84235)
$$$$ 319.4 $$$$ koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT - msg#: 84299)
$$$$ 319,3 $$$$ Shanti (09/11/02; 15:09:35MT - msg#: 84836)
$$$$ 319.2 $$$$ Bulldog (09/03/02; 21:53:40MT - msg#: 84288)
$$$$ 319.1 $$$$ Jon (09/12/02; 07:58:43MT - msg#: 84918)
$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Just waking up (09/10/02; 13:46:21MT - msg#: 84737)
$$$$ 318.9 $$$$ Graham (9/11/02; 09:01:37MT - msg#: 84812)
$$$$ 318.8 $$$$ Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - msg#: 84911)
$$$$ 318.7 $$$$ Camel (09/12/02; 08:16:08MT - msg#: 84926)
$$$$ 318.6 $$$$ Kodie (09/03/02; 12:41:26MT - msg#: 84222)
$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ Broken Tee (09/11/02; 12:50:41MT - msg#: 84829)

$$$$ 318.3 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT - msg#: 84755)

$$$$ 318.1$$$$ wiley (09/11/02; 13:14:39MT - msg#: 84830)

$$$$ 317.9 $$$$ VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT - msg#: 84415)

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - msg#: 84907)

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Artie Farkle (09/04/02; 20:02:53MT - msg#: 84369)

$$$$ 316.8 $$$$ harryo (9/7/02; 14:38:25MT - msg#: 84571)

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT - msg#: 84316)

$$$$ 315.5 $$$$ Christian (9/6/02; 00:11:42MT - msg#: 84471)

$$$$ 315.1 $$$$ Pizz (9/11/02; 11:34:41MT - msg#: 84822)

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ MO VER MEG (09/04/02; 07:34:44MT - msg#: 84312)
$$$$ 314.8 $$$$ Brett Woods (09/12/02; 08:36:16MT - msg#: 84931)
$$$$ 314.7 $$$$ seagull (09/10/02; 15:53:53MT - msg#: 84750)

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Frosty (09/03/02; 18:59:09MT - msg#: 84265)

$$$$ 314.0 $$$$ Flatlander (9/7/02; 07:30:20MT - msg#: 84555)

$$$$ 313.3 $$$$ Woodie (09/03/02; 23:41:11MT - msg#: 84291)

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ SilverHoard (09/04/02; 17:01:10MT - msg#: 84347)

$$$$ 312.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (09/09/02; 23:39:52MT - msg#: 84708)

$$$$ 311.4 $$$$ De Ronin (09/04/02; 12:16:42MT - msg#: 84333)
$$$$ 311.3 $$$$ Au-some (09/09/02; 22:07:13MT - msg#: 84702)

$$$$ 310.0 $$$$ Operative (09/10/02; 14:54:15MT - msg#: 84746)


$$$$ 309.7 $$$$ HopeingII (9/6/02; 21:14:33MT - msg#: 84542)

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ Noble1 (09/04/02; 20:25:58MT - msg#: 84371)

$$$$ 308,0 $$$$ Trurl (09/05/02; 09:33:57MT - msg#: 84408)

$$$$ 307.5 $$$$ silvercollector (09/11/02; 19:54:21MT - msg#: 84856)


$$$$ 295.5 $$$$ Topaz (9/5/02; 01:41:33MT - msg#: 84389)

===
<;-)

RobotGuy (09/12/02; 08:54:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 84935)
$$$$323.00$$$$
Two years ago I decided to put a large chunk of my personal assets where my mouth was. Everyone laughed at me, told me I was 'a dreamer' and that I was being riddiculous. They told me to put my money into Nortel and other tech stocks, but I could sense the dissolution of the tech market long before it came,.. long before Sept. 11. Well, my investments prevailed while others failed, and I had the opportunity to say "I told ya so!" to many people. It's not over. We haven't seen the worst of our finacial markets, and we could very well be headed for the Chinese ten year drought syndrome.
For years I advocated precious metals, even as a youngster I would pan for the precious metals wherever history of it's existance was known in the streambeds (I have some flakes that are very special to me).
It may not be today, or tomorrow, but in the near future, precious metals are going to make up for all those years of sitting on the sidelines of being a trustworthy investment. The Bre-x's will have been forgotten, and all of those individuals who laughed will eventually pretend that they never said such things, and that they were always firm believers.
Sure, gold may be synthetically reproduced, but not nearly as easily and cheaply as fiat and artificial wealth.

I have not participated in this forum as actively as I have in the past, as I have been forced to become my own employer and time is of extreme essence these days. I look forward to the days when I can return and ponder messages as they are cast upon us in this marvelous forum.

For the sake of humouring the knights and ladies, I would like you all to know that I am the proud owner of RobotGuy Inc. I am not advertising, I thought you might find the name humorous.

Cheers all!


RobotGuy.

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 08:51:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 84934)
<;-) Thanks Lady Leigh ! I needed that.
BTW, did everyone notice that SPOT is JUMPING around today !
<;-)

Gimli_ (09/12/02; 08:45:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 84933)
$$$$ 322.5 $$$$
I bought my first physical precious metals just before the last George Bush war on Iraq. That war went well and though precious metals went down, I have patiently hung on to and added to my physical stash since then. This time could be different......

Leigh (09/12/02; 08:45:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 84932)
A Priceless Headline
http://dailynews.att.net/cgi-bin/news?e=pri&dt=020912&cat=news&st=newsmarketsstocksdc
"Stocks Stumble, Greenspan Lies Ahead"

New York (Reuters) - Stocks sagged at the open on Thursday as a surprise rise in weekly jobless claims helped sour the mood ahead of key speeches from Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan and President Bush."

---
Greenspan Lies Ahead??


Brett Woods (09/12/02; 08:36:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 84931)
GCZ2
Well that was much more of a lull than I was expecting. When $316 broke it made a second wave down and damn near went all the way to a convincing reversal. Strong bouyancy showed itself at the quarterly average price, and at $300 Gold seemed unskinkable. Just two years ago, the pog slithered along like a hamster under a blanket. These days it rides like a trawler in a North Sea gale as the Titans of economic destiny and G7/CB intervention hurl thunderbolts and heave stones.

I see a convergence of all price averages and we have felt the beginning of strong new rising impulse that will, (IMG) be thrown in the trough of the mean before accelerating to shatter the $330 level in early November.

It would seem that we have seen another bottom and that the legions of intervention are fighting a professional retreat and coordinating the decline of productivity supported fiat. Nevertheless, the new millennial trend of decline in the the yen, the usd and swiss franc are established and correlate well with the rise in the pog.

There has been much consternation about which model the world economy is now rolling toward: Inflation, deflation, or stagflation. However, a super-cyclic decline in fiat value against the fixture of gold, need not, I think, be a harbinger of inflation for other goods because the desire to create and produce value is waning world wide, having been replaced in a broad sense with anger, paralysis, and contempt among cohabitants.

My guess for the 1/2 oz Canadian Maple is $$$314.8$$$. (thank you Gandalf and MK)

While the market was beginning its landslide during the pre-summer of 2000, I was on the southern tip of India in desperate circumstances after the worst business experience of my life. It was 113F and to escape the heat and relax my mind while figured out how I would get my money back and re-employ myself, I entered the grounds of the national museum in Madras. I started smoking again and when I lit one, a tall, gaunt but upright looking gentleman in ragged clothes approached me and I gave him a cigarette. In educated english, he began to tell me a most incredible story. He claimed to have been a math teacher in Sri Lanka when an explosion on the road beside his house destroyed a truck of government army troops. Some must have been killed and some wounded, but two of the remaining troops burst into his house, which was the nearest, and machine gunned his parents to death. His wife tried to delay the soldiers as best she could while he escaped with their two daughters out the back way. He said he never heard from his wife again. Refugees have been escaping Sri Lanka for 20 years. When they reach India which is the only place to go, they are kept in a concentration camp and never landed. Men have been in this limbo for ten years and more. The only way to get out of the camp and to get papers is through official bribery. Travel money is also required to go from official to official.

There is always a chance that banks may be closed due to internal economic strife or external hell fire or even government decree and I don't want to have to be at the back of the screaming mob outside during the initial transition. Remember the movie "Being There" with Peter Sellers? It shows how doors may be opened if you have a good suit. After hearing that man's story I began to think it would be good to have a few gold coins. Just a bit of the other. One for a good toga, two or three for travel, and several for bribes. Cash is fine, but it doesn't travel well, whereas there are always merchants, jewelers, and coin dealers who will do a deal in gold for local paper. In the worst case, gold coins may not fit in the rectum as well as diamonds but they are easier to traffic. Bonnechance to all.

***



otish mountain (09/12/02; 08:36:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 84930)
$$$$6,840.20$$$$
Gold is important to me because my family is important to me. I can live out of the back of a pick up truck if need be . It's my children I have the concern for and gold is the only thing in the future I can leave that will be unencumbered.

sstins (09/12/02; 08:32:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 84929)
$$$$ 336.70 $$$$
As a being of "volitional consciousness" and wishing to employ "reason" as my guide, the logical path towards fiscal "survival" points to gold as the only real "value" amidst a myriad of promising paper alternatives built out of fantasy.


Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 08:25:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 84928)
Question to Sir Silvercollector
Was that OBL or SH ?
Sorry, but I can't leave this FORUM to check out the TV !
<;-)

silvercollector (09/12/02; 08:16:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 84927)
What?
An interview was just on TV. A mistress of OBL says he moved WMD around at night to skirt around UN weapons inspectors (and laughed about it). She went on about this evil man.

So do we believe her? Is it safe not too?

Camel (09/12/02; 08:16:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 84926)
$$$$ 318.7$$$$

I buy gold so I can sleep at night knowing that it is safely buried in the ground, can't be erased with a computer entry or nibbled away by inflation like rabbits in the garden.

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 08:15:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 84925)
I KNEW I would make at least ONE ERROR !
That should have been 3 HOURS and FIFTY minutes to GO !
<;-)

Hipplebeck (09/12/02; 08:14:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 84924)
Canuck consider this hypothetical situation
Just your talking about such things makes me suspicious.
Therefore I am taking the right to search through your things. Please stand aside as I go through your and your families belongings.


Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 08:13:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 84923)
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"
3 HOURS and 10 Minutes remaining to ENTER !!! Tick Tock
UPDATE # 18 (as of Thursday at 0810 Denver time 9/11/02)

PROGNOSTICATIONS -- Listed in descending order of Price.

$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (09/10/02; 20:18:10MT - msg#: 84776)

$$$$ 398.6 $$$$ Believer (09/04/02; 18:22:46MT - msg#: 84358)

$$$$ 375.0 $$$$ Henri (09/04/02; 10:58:18MT - msg#: 84326)

$$$$ 362.3 $$$$ NEMO me impune lacessit (09/04/02; 05:21:24MT - msg#: 84304)

$$$$ 354.4 $$$$ perform (09/04/02; 07:34:49MT - msg#: 84313)

$$$$ 353.4 $$$$ darkhorse (09/03/02; 20:56:04MT - msg#: 84280)

$$$$ 349.2 $$$$ mdgc (09/05/02; 15:45:42MT - msg#: 84427)

$$$$ 345.0 $$$$ Socrates964 (09/04/02; 16:11:50MT - msg#: 84344)

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (09/04/02; 21:38:27MT - msg#: 84381)

$$$$ 342.5 $$$$ gvc (09/03/02; 17:08:12MT - msg#: 84255)

$$$$ 341.7 $$$$ old gold (09/04/02; 11:40:02MT - msg#: 84330)


$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (09/03/02; 22:36:21MT - msg#: 84289)

$$$$ 337.0 $$$$ Creosote (09/09/02; 22:08:29MT - msg#: 84703)

$$$$ 335.4 $$$$ Roger The Shrubber (09/05/02; 08:18:47MT - msg#: 84404)

$$$$ 334.7 $$$$ GoldCoaster (09/05/02; 21:29:56MT - msg#: 84455)

$$$$ 333.7 $$$$ Speedy (09/04/02; 19:15:01MT - msg#: 84366)

$$$$ 333.4 $$$$ Slowman (09/04/02; 20:10:11MT - msg#: 84370)

$$$$ 332.9 $$$$ SWEET 16 (9/7/02; 13:02:34MT - msg#: 84569)

$$$$ 332.5 $$$$ Hipplebeck (9/9/02; 11:52:25MT - msg#: 84676)

$$$$ 332.2 $$$$ BlackBart (9/6/02; 23:09:00MT - msg#: 84544)

$$$$ 332.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (9/7/02; 02:35:37MT - msg#: 84550)

$$$$ 331.3 $$$$ misetich (09/04/02; 05:28:30MT - msg#: 84307)
$$$$ 331.2 $$$$ Pippin (09/04/02; 12:50:09MT - msg#: 84335)

$$$$ 330.9 $$$$ silvester (09/10/02; 20:07:18MT - msg#: 84774)

$$$$ 330.0 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (09/04/02; 19:11:32MT - msg#: 84365)


$$$$ 329.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (09/04/02; 11:36:15MT - msg#: 84329)

$$$$ 329.3 $$$$ mikal (09/04/02; 17:08:29MT - msg#: 84349)
$$$$ 329.2 $$$$ The Hoople (09/04/02; 12:04:30MT - msg#: 84332)

$$$$ 329.0 $$$$ Sundeck (9/11/02; 05:09:56MT - msg#: 84801)

$$$$ 328.8 $$$$ Goldilocks 1 (09/09/02; 21:39:15MT - msg#: 84699)

$$$$ 328.5 $$$$ steady (09/03/02; 20:14:41MT - msg#: 84272)

$$$$ 328.1 $$$$ ha_tey_o (09/04/02; 11:15:13MT - msg#: 84327)

$$$$ 327.9 $$$$ Trapper (09/03/02; 20:12:26MT - msg#: 84271)

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ mudr (9/6/02; 22:47:45MT - msg#: 84543)

$$$$ 327.3 $$$$ luckypierre (09/03/02; 15:20:51MT - msg#: 84244)

$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ DoubleEagle (9/11/02; 22:09:54MT - msg#: 84873)

$$$$ 326.7 $$$$ timbervision (9/11/02; 21:24:16MT - msg#: 84863)

$$$$ 326.5 $$$$ turkey hunter (09/03/02; 18:33:51MT - msg#: 84261)

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ White Rose (09/06/02; 08:23:51MT - msg#: 84503)

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ Galerider (09/03/02; 20:53:27MT - msg#: 84279)

$$$$ 325.3 $$$$ GuyGold (9/11/02; 21:25:02MT - msg#: 84867)
$$$$ 325.2 $$$$ The CoinGuy (09/04/02; 13:00:07MT - msg#: 84338)
$$$$ 325.1 $$$$ sangrelli (9/7/02; 16:43:48MT - msg#: 84575)

$$$$ 324.7 $$$$ Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - msg#: 84910)

$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Rock (09/04/02; 12:19:18MT - msg#: 84334)

$$$$ 324.3 $$$$ Shermag (9/11/02; 11:17:37MT - msg#: 84820)

$$$$ 324.1 $$$$ Gold Standard (09/04/02; 05:02:31MT - msg#: 84302)

$$$$ 323.7 $$$$ Boxman (9/4/02; 04:27:17MT - msg#: 84301)
$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ Yukon (09/08/02; 22:57:32MT - msg#: 84636)

$$$$ 323.2 $$$$ a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT - msg#: 84229)

$$$$ 322.8 $$$$ R Powell (09/11/02; 18:24:59MT - msg#: 84846)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$ Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - msg#: 84909)

$$$$ 322.2 $$$$ Tommy P (09/03/02; 14:33:23MT - msg#: 84233)

$$$$ 322.0 $$$$ Golden Bear (09/11/02; 20:40:34MT - msg#: 84858)
$$$$ 321.9 $$$$ MoonHowler (09/04/02; 21:59:49MT - msg#: 84382)

$$$$ 321.7 $$$$ All Black (9/11/02; 21:25:51MT - msg#: 84866)

$$$$ 321.5 $$$$ Waverider (09/12/02; 08:07:40MT - msg#: 84921)
$$$$ 321.4 $$$$ balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT - msg#: 84353)
$$$$ 321.3 $$$$ goldquest (9/11/02; 00:01:10MT - msg#: 84795)
$$$$ 321.2 $$$$ kramrich (09/12/02; 07:58:11MT - msg#: 84917)
$$$$ 321.1 $$$$ The Knife (09/04/02; 16:30:43MT - msg#: 84345)
$$$$ 321.0 $$$$ Gandalf the White (09/03/02; 12:29:20MT - msg#: 84221)
$$$$ 320.9 $$$$ miner49er (09/12/02; 07:51:47MT - msg#: 84913)
$$$$ 320.8 $$$$ Neubie (9/11/02; 08:25:55MT - msg#: 84810)
$$$$ 320.7 $$$$ BILLYG (9/11/02; 21:33:17MT - msg#: 84868)
$$$$ 320.6 $$$$ Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - msg#: 84905)
$$$$ 320.5 $$$$ cwa (09/10/02; 21:39:38MT - msg#: 84784)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.3 $$$$ Aureo Speedwagon (09/11/02; 15:00:12MT - msg#: 84835)
$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (09/03/02; 13:18:00MT - msg#: 84226)
$$$$ 320.1 $$$$ Truthcaster (09/11/02; 17:28:21MT - msg#: 84843)
$$$$ 320.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (09/03/02; 15:06:26MT - msg#: 84240)
$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Draco (09/10/02; 18:38:08MT - msg#: 84763)
$$$$ 319.8 $$$$ Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT - msg#: 84257)
$$$$ 319.7 $$$$ slingshot (09/03/02; 16:57:17MT - msg#: 84254)
$$$$ 319.6 $$$$ NTgeo (9/6/02; 01:56:11MT - msg#: 84477)
$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ davefinger (09/03/02; 14:52:14MT - msg#: 84235)
$$$$ 319.4 $$$$ koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT - msg#: 84299)
$$$$ 319,3 $$$$ Shanti (09/11/02; 15:09:35MT - msg#: 84836)
$$$$ 319.2 $$$$ Bulldog (09/03/02; 21:53:40MT - msg#: 84288)
$$$$ 319.1 $$$$ Jon (09/12/02; 07:58:43MT - msg#: 84918)
$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Just waking up (09/10/02; 13:46:21MT - msg#: 84737)
$$$$ 318.9 $$$$ Graham (9/11/02; 09:01:37MT - msg#: 84812)
$$$$ 318.8 $$$$ Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - msg#: 84911)

$$$$ 318.6 $$$$ Kodie (09/03/02; 12:41:26MT - msg#: 84222)
$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ Broken Tee (09/11/02; 12:50:41MT - msg#: 84829)

$$$$ 318.3 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT - msg#: 84755)

$$$$ 318.1$$$$ wiley (09/11/02; 13:14:39MT - msg#: 84830)

$$$$ 317.9 $$$$ VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT - msg#: 84415)

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - msg#: 84907)

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Artie Farkle (09/04/02; 20:02:53MT - msg#: 84369)

$$$$ 316.8 $$$$ harryo (9/7/02; 14:38:25MT - msg#: 84571)

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT - msg#: 84316)

$$$$ 315.5 $$$$ Christian (9/6/02; 00:11:42MT - msg#: 84471)

$$$$ 315.1 $$$$ Pizz (9/11/02; 11:34:41MT - msg#: 84822)

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ MO VER MEG (09/04/02; 07:34:44MT - msg#: 84312)

$$$$ 314.7 $$$$ seagull (09/10/02; 15:53:53MT - msg#: 84750)

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Frosty (09/03/02; 18:59:09MT - msg#: 84265)

$$$$ 314.0 $$$$ Flatlander (9/7/02; 07:30:20MT - msg#: 84555)

$$$$ 313.3 $$$$ Woodie (09/03/02; 23:41:11MT - msg#: 84291)

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ SilverHoard (09/04/02; 17:01:10MT - msg#: 84347)

$$$$ 312.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (09/09/02; 23:39:52MT - msg#: 84708)

$$$$ 311.4 $$$$ De Ronin (09/04/02; 12:16:42MT - msg#: 84333)
$$$$ 311.3 $$$$ Au-some (09/09/02; 22:07:13MT - msg#: 84702)

$$$$ 310.0 $$$$ Operative (09/10/02; 14:54:15MT - msg#: 84746)


$$$$ 309.7 $$$$ HopeingII (9/6/02; 21:14:33MT - msg#: 84542)

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ Noble1 (09/04/02; 20:25:58MT - msg#: 84371)

$$$$ 308,0 $$$$ Trurl (09/05/02; 09:33:57MT - msg#: 84408)

$$$$ 307.5 $$$$ silvercollector (09/11/02; 19:54:21MT - msg#: 84856)


$$$$ 295.5 $$$$ Topaz (9/5/02; 01:41:33MT - msg#: 84389)

===


kramrich (09/12/02; 08:10:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 84922)
@ Canuck Gold

Canuck Gold: "Personally, I'd like someone to take an unimpeded look at what he was doing, by force if necessary, because the consequences of taking no action are
unfathomable."

I remember reading or hearing a quote once and I don't remember it word for word but it went something like this...

All that is necessary for evil to prosper is for good men to do nothing.

I can't help but think of this quote if the world decides to let Iraq fester unchecked. Maybe not military action but some action.

Waverider (09/12/02; 08:07:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 84921)
HAPPY ***** $321.50 ***** BIRTHDAY USAGOLD
Why is Gold important to me? This is an excellent question…a question which I wish more people would take time to ask…but my answer is not at all original, as I follow in the footsteps of the many great minds here at the forum. It is a preservation of one's hard earned assets, representing true value which no-one can destroy. It is independence and personal sovereignty, and the ultimate insurance in a very unsure world. Pray tell that I could explain why a particular little Gold coin is important to me - that being my lucky French Angel won in the "Dark Vision" contest, that I hold very dear not only because of what the Gold itself represents, but more so for what the coin represents. For emanating from that little piece of Gold worn over my heart is a Gold discussion forum where Truth reigns supreme…where lies and manipulations propagated by the media are analyzed, dissected, and exposed…where teaching occurs on a daily basis…where questions are answered because someone always has the grace, wisdom, knowledge, and generosity to assist those less knowledgeable or experienced…where truth, knowledge, integrity, and noble character are esteemed…and where this community provides the strength to persevere in my beliefs, values, and judgements when the world at times can seem so twisted. And that dear Gandalf, is why Gold is important to me! :)

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 08:02:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 84920)
THANKS Sir Kramrich
<;-)

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 07:59:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 84919)
ATTN: Sir Kramrich --- PLEASE TRY AGAIN !!
kramrich (09/12/02; 07:56:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 84916)
$$$$320.9$$$$
===
This number was been taken FIVE MINUTES AGO !
<;-(

Jon (09/12/02; 07:58:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 84918)
$$$$$319.1$$$$$
Gold is the only true money. All other currencies are bound to depreciate in value as compared to gold.

kramrich (09/12/02; 07:58:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 84917)
$$$$321.2$$$$
oops that seat is taken. I'll take this one.

kramrich (09/12/02; 07:56:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 84916)
$$$$320.9$$$$
Gold is the only real money and has been for more than 60 centuries. The greenback has only been around for a short while. I'm sticking with the old man.

Gandalf the White (09/12/02; 07:55:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 84915)
Sir Alchemist <;-)
Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 84911)
===
NOT to worry there Sir Alchemist, the Hobbits saw you !
<;-)

Canuck Gold (09/12/02; 07:54:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 84914)
Golden Bear (9/12/02; 02:36:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 84891)
I wonder what your response would be if you had good reason to believe your neighbour had a biochemical and nuclear weapons lab in his basement. Would you still want him to be allowed to continue unmolested until solid proof of his activities was found? Would you be a champion of his right to deny any inspection of his property? Would you sleep soundly at night knowing that he could be on the verge of testing a thermonuclear device? Would it make you feel better knowing that the guy, who was a certified homicidal maniac, had gassed the neighbours on the other side of his property and no-one had done anything about it?

Personally, I'd like someone to take an unimpeded look at what he was doing, by force if necessary, because the consequences of taking no action are unfathomable.

CG

miner49er (09/12/02; 07:51:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 84913)
$$$$ 320.9 $$$$

Well seems like most of the good seats are taken... Since my preferred spot is already occupied, my guess is as stated (although I'd put side money on Blade at 320.4 with Aureo and 18K to place and show...)

Why gold? All the usual reasons: a store of wealth that is no man's liability, plus all the oft cited properties -- liquidity, portability, durability, aesthetics, and so on, and so on...

A managed price of gold eventually will fail under sufficient stress. While the stress may be triggered by the spectrum of external events, these events in themselves do not necessarily constitute the sign of the day or the hour. So long as confidence remains in the current financial framework, and the foundation of a US dollar believed adequate to uphold it, people will still be disposed to hold most of their wealth in the gamut of dollar denominated paper assets.

This on the surface should not have an impact on our gold holdings. Yet, it is this paradigm that holds gold still as a de facto currency, in a world that has developed around the U.S. dollar as THE currency for settlement and reserve, that invites its price suppression. If gold is viewed as the ultimate currency, then it is the ultimate reserve currency (even in a de facto sense). This implies that it is in some ways better, hence preferred over other currencies (the USD specifically in this day). Thus in a time of waning confidence, it would be run to. This friction causes an ideal environment for those who are staked in the competing currency (USD) to pressure the exchange rate in their favor (gold price down).

A global mindset shift of preference to the euro would alter this framework, and as many have recited here over the years, would have meaningful impact on the price of gold -- positively. The competitive element would be removed which would allow gold to find its market value. This does not mean a return to gold as "money," or a gold standard. "Fiat" created money will still be the order of the day, and the financial world will gravitate to that fiat which is believed most stable for that era. A currency that holds gold in reserve (not backing, just as a reserve), and allows its balance sheet to reflect current market value for that reserve (as does the euro), will have an advantage in the coming years.

This does not, and never has diminished the principal reason and basic wisdom behind owning gold, however. This strange species called "humans" have singled out gold through the ages as the premier thing to recognize as estimable. Something everyone is glad to have more of. That being the case, it is the premier store of one's wealth, the ultimate savings. It hedges one's active investments in down times, and should be a decent portion of everyone's personal holdings.

In addition to this very conservative evaluation, is another consideration. In the unique moment in time we find ourselves, gold is poised for a very significant investment return as well. The price of physically possessed gold in all likelihood has reached its nadir. The "paper" spot price should have less and less impact on the price one pays to obtain real (very scarce, really...) physical coins and bullion. The paper price should eventually fall away, un-tethered, to some trivial number (albeit there will likely be death shudders to the upside before this).

So while nimble traders can make (and ARE making) some good money in this cycle, I dare say that most who are trying to trade the volatility are getting hosed, or at best losing only a little... Those who see this as a buy-and-hold opp for mining, while seeing their shares trending nicely up, still have the burden of SUDDEN surprises both on a micro scale to their individual companies, as well as unexpected macro shifts that can alter the dynamics instantly against them.

Good luck to you, I truly mean that. I hope you can navigate through this and come out ahead. But for the majority of us, who are otherwise intelligent, and successful, but who do not have that natural trader's instinct -- that ability to know when to act, and then to actually ACT, in time... we will rest more peacefully at night with the physical metal held privately wherever we will.

As for where to buy the stuff, I heartily recommend the good folks at Centennial Precious Metals. They believe in the product they sell. They are highly and diversely knowledgeable about it. And their prices are always very, very good.

Happy Birthday to USAGold!



Gandalf the White (9/12/02; 07:49:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 84912)
"The Happy Birthday GOLD PRICE SETTLEMENT CONTEST"
TICK TOCK TICK TOCK -- ONLY four hours and twenty minutes to GO!
UPDATE # 17 (as of Thursday at 0740 Denver time 9/11/02)
===
FYI ---- HIGH, Low and Settlement Price of GC2Z on NY COMEX: w/ "POLESITTERS" of the day!
9/3/02 $315.9 $314.1 $315.0s
9/4/02 $317.1 $313.8 $316.5s Change + $1.5 $$$$ 316.0 Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT
9/5/02 $320.8 $318.1 $319.8s Change + $3.3 $$$$ 319.8 Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT
9/6/02 $322.9 $319.8 $321.5s Change + $1.7 $$$$ 321.4 balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT
9/9/02 $325.5 $322.4 $322.8s Change + $1.3 $$$$ 323.2 a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT
9/10/2 $321.5 $318.7 $319.4s Change - $3.4 $$$$ 319.4 koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT
9/11/2 $318.3 $316.0 $318.1s Change - $1.3 TIE between
-------------------------------------------------$$$$ 318.3 Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT
-------------------------------------------------and $$$$ 317.9 VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT
===

PROGNOSTICATIONS -- Listed in descending order of Price.

$$$$ 8,752.0 $$$$ The Invisible Hand (09/10/02; 20:18:10MT - msg#: 84776)

$$$$ 398.6 $$$$ Believer (09/04/02; 18:22:46MT - msg#: 84358)

$$$$ 375.0 $$$$ Henri (09/04/02; 10:58:18MT - msg#: 84326)

$$$$ 362.3 $$$$ NEMO me impune lacessit (09/04/02; 05:21:24MT - msg#: 84304)

$$$$ 354.4 $$$$ perform (09/04/02; 07:34:49MT - msg#: 84313)

$$$$ 353.4 $$$$ darkhorse (09/03/02; 20:56:04MT - msg#: 84280)

$$$$ 349.2 $$$$ mdgc (09/05/02; 15:45:42MT - msg#: 84427)

$$$$ 345.0 $$$$ Socrates964 (09/04/02; 16:11:50MT - msg#: 84344)

$$$$ 343.0 $$$$ ji (09/04/02; 21:38:27MT - msg#: 84381)

$$$$ 342.5 $$$$ gvc (09/03/02; 17:08:12MT - msg#: 84255)

$$$$ 341.7 $$$$ old gold (09/04/02; 11:40:02MT - msg#: 84330)


$$$$ 339.0 $$$$ rsjacksr (09/03/02; 22:36:21MT - msg#: 84289)

$$$$ 337.0 $$$$ Creosote (09/09/02; 22:08:29MT - msg#: 84703)

$$$$ 335.4 $$$$ Roger The Shrubber (09/05/02; 08:18:47MT - msg#: 84404)

$$$$ 334.7 $$$$ GoldCoaster (09/05/02; 21:29:56MT - msg#: 84455)

$$$$ 333.7 $$$$ Speedy (09/04/02; 19:15:01MT - msg#: 84366)

$$$$ 333.4 $$$$ Slowman (09/04/02; 20:10:11MT - msg#: 84370)

$$$$ 332.9 $$$$ SWEET 16 (9/7/02; 13:02:34MT - msg#: 84569)

$$$$ 332.5 $$$$ Hipplebeck (9/9/02; 11:52:25MT - msg#: 84676)

$$$$ 332.2 $$$$ BlackBart (9/6/02; 23:09:00MT - msg#: 84544)

$$$$ 332.0 $$$$ DOWNUNDER (9/7/02; 02:35:37MT - msg#: 84550)

$$$$ 331.3 $$$$ misetich (09/04/02; 05:28:30MT - msg#: 84307)
$$$$ 331.2 $$$$ Pippin (09/04/02; 12:50:09MT - msg#: 84335)

$$$$ 330.9 $$$$ silvester (09/10/02; 20:07:18MT - msg#: 84774)

$$$$ 330.0 $$$$ HOOSIER GOLDBUG (09/04/02; 19:11:32MT - msg#: 84365)


$$$$ 329.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (09/04/02; 11:36:15MT - msg#: 84329)

$$$$ 329.3 $$$$ mikal (09/04/02; 17:08:29MT - msg#: 84349)
$$$$ 329.2 $$$$ The Hoople (09/04/02; 12:04:30MT - msg#: 84332)

$$$$ 329.0 $$$$ Sundeck (9/11/02; 05:09:56MT - msg#: 84801)

$$$$ 328.8 $$$$ Goldilocks 1 (09/09/02; 21:39:15MT - msg#: 84699)

$$$$ 328.5 $$$$ steady (09/03/02; 20:14:41MT - msg#: 84272)

$$$$ 328.1 $$$$ ha_tey_o (09/04/02; 11:15:13MT - msg#: 84327)

$$$$ 327.9 $$$$ Trapper (09/03/02; 20:12:26MT - msg#: 84271)

$$$$ 327.6 $$$$ mudr (9/6/02; 22:47:45MT - msg#: 84543)

$$$$ 327.3 $$$$ luckypierre (09/03/02; 15:20:51MT - msg#: 84244)

$$$$ 326.9 $$$$ DoubleEagle (9/11/02; 22:09:54MT - msg#: 84873)

$$$$ 326.7 $$$$ timbervision (9/11/02; 21:24:16MT - msg#: 84863)

$$$$ 326.5 $$$$ turkey hunter (09/03/02; 18:33:51MT - msg#: 84261)

$$$$ 326.0 $$$$ White Rose (09/06/02; 08:23:51MT - msg#: 84503)

$$$$ 325.5 $$$$ Galerider (09/03/02; 20:53:27MT - msg#: 84279)

$$$$ 325.3 $$$$ GuyGold (9/11/02; 21:25:02MT - msg#: 84867)
$$$$ 325.2 $$$$ The CoinGuy (09/04/02; 13:00:07MT - msg#: 84338)
$$$$ 325.1 $$$$ sangrelli (9/7/02; 16:43:48MT - msg#: 84575)

$$$$ 324.7 $$$$ Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - msg#: 84910)

$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Rock (09/04/02; 12:19:18MT - msg#: 84334)

$$$$ 324.3 $$$$ Shermag (9/11/02; 11:17:37MT - msg#: 84820)

$$$$ 324.1 $$$$ Gold Standard (09/04/02; 05:02:31MT - msg#: 84302)

$$$$ 323.7 $$$$ Boxman (9/4/02; 04:27:17MT - msg#: 84301)
$$$$ 323.6 $$$$ Yukon (09/08/02; 22:57:32MT - msg#: 84636)

$$$$ 323.2 $$$$ a nation of one (09/03/02; 13:55:53MT - msg#: 84229)

$$$$ 322.8 $$$$ R Powell (09/11/02; 18:24:59MT - msg#: 84846)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$ Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - msg#: 84909)

$$$$ 322.2 $$$$ Tommy P (09/03/02; 14:33:23MT - msg#: 84233)

$$$$ 322.0 $$$$ Golden Bear (09/11/02; 20:40:34MT - msg#: 84858)
$$$$ 321.9 $$$$ MoonHowler (09/04/02; 21:59:49MT - msg#: 84382)

$$$$ 321.7 $$$$ All Black (9/11/02; 21:25:51MT - msg#: 84866)

$$$$ 321.4 $$$$ balzac (09/04/02; 17:22:15MT - msg#: 84353)
$$$$ 321.3 $$$$ goldquest (9/11/02; 00:01:10MT - msg#: 84795)

$$$$ 321.1 $$$$ The Knife (09/04/02; 16:30:43MT - msg#: 84345)
$$$$ 321.0 $$$$ Gandalf the White (09/03/02; 12:29:20MT - msg#: 84221)

$$$$ 320.8 $$$$ Neubie (9/11/02; 08:25:55MT - msg#: 84810)
$$$$ 320.7 $$$$ BILLYG (9/11/02; 21:33:17MT - msg#: 84868)
$$$$ 320.6 $$$$ Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - msg#: 84905)
$$$$ 320.5 $$$$ cwa (09/10/02; 21:39:38MT - msg#: 84784)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$ Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.3 $$$$ Aureo Speedwagon (09/11/02; 15:00:12MT - msg#: 84835)
$$$$ 320.2 $$$$ 18K (09/03/02; 13:18:00MT - msg#: 84226)
$$$$ 320.1 $$$$ Truthcaster (09/11/02; 17:28:21MT - msg#: 84843)
$$$$ 320.0 $$$$ Zhisheng (09/03/02; 15:06:26MT - msg#: 84240)
$$$$ 319.9 $$$$ Draco (09/10/02; 18:38:08MT - msg#: 84763)
$$$$ 319.8 $$$$ Bound Spirit (09/03/02; 17:20:54MT - msg#: 84257)
$$$$ 319.7 $$$$ slingshot (09/03/02; 16:57:17MT - msg#: 84254)
$$$$ 319.6 $$$$ NTgeo (9/6/02; 01:56:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 84477)
$$$$ 319.5 $$$$ davefinger (09/03/02; 14:52:14MT - msg#: 84235)
$$$$ 319.4 $$$$ koala bear (9/4/02; 04:08:54MT - msg#: 84299)
$$$$ 319,3 $$$$ Shanti (09/11/02; 15:09:35MT - msg#: 84836)
$$$$ 319.2 $$$$ Bulldog (09/03/02; 21:53:40MT - msg#: 84288)

$$$$ 319.0 $$$$ Just waking up (09/10/02; 13:46:21MT - msg#: 84737)
$$$$ 318.9 $$$$ Graham (9/11/02; 09:01:37MT - msg#: 84812)

$$$$ 318.6 $$$$ Kodie (09/03/02; 12:41:26MT - msg#: 84222)
$$$$ 318.5 $$$$ Broken Tee (09/11/02; 12:50:41MT - msg#: 84829)

$$$$ 318.3 $$$$ Max Rabbitz (09/10/02; 16:13:39MT - msg#: 84755)

$$$$ 318.1$$$$ wiley (09/11/02; 13:14:39MT - msg#: 84830)

$$$$ 317.9 $$$$ VanRip (09/05/02; 12:20:50MT - msg#: 84415)

$$$$ 317.5 $$$$ EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - msg#: 84907)

$$$$ 317.2 $$$$ Artie Farkle (09/04/02; 20:02:53MT - msg#: 84369)

$$$$ 316.8 $$$$ harryo (9/7/02; 14:38:25MT - msg#: 84571)

$$$$ 316.0 $$$$ Tevye (09/04/02; 08:02:40MT - msg#: 84316)

$$$$ 315.5 $$$$ Christian (9/6/02; 00:11:42MT - msg#: 84471)

$$$$ 315.1 $$$$ Pizz (9/11/02; 11:34:41MT - msg#: 84822)

$$$$ 314.9 $$$$ MO VER MEG (09/04/02; 07:34:44MT - msg#: 84312)

$$$$ 314.7 $$$$ seagull (09/10/02; 15:53:53MT - msg#: 84750)

$$$$ 314.5 $$$$ Frosty (09/03/02; 18:59:09MT - msg#: 84265)

$$$$ 314.0 $$$$ Flatlander (9/7/02; 07:30:20MT - msg#: 84555)

$$$$ 313.3 $$$$ Woodie (09/03/02; 23:41:11MT - msg#: 84291)

$$$$ 312.5 $$$$ SilverHoard (09/04/02; 17:01:10MT - msg#: 84347)

$$$$ 312.0 $$$$ GoldnSilver2002 (09/09/02; 23:39:52MT - msg#: 84708)

$$$$ 311.4 $$$$ De Ronin (09/04/02; 12:16:42MT - msg#: 84333)
$$$$ 311.3 $$$$ Au-some (09/09/02; 22:07:13MT - msg#: 84702)

$$$$ 310.0 $$$$ Operative (09/10/02; 14:54:15MT - msg#: 84746)


$$$$ 309.7 $$$$ HopeingII (9/6/02; 21:14:33MT - msg#: 84542)

$$$$ 308.6 $$$$ Noble1 (09/04/02; 20:25:58MT - msg#: 84371)

$$$$ 308,0 $$$$ Trurl (09/05/02; 09:33:57MT - msg#: 84408)

$$$$ 307.5 $$$$ silvercollector (09/11/02; 19:54:21MT - msg#: 84856)


$$$$ 295.5 $$$$ Topaz (9/5/02; 01:41:33MT - msg#: 84389)

===
THE RULES --
1) THIS Contest consists of TWO Portions --- A Price Prognostication and a Discussion Statement !
2) The Winner is the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX (most active) December 2002 Contract (GC2Z) on the date of Friday the 13th of September. (NOTE the LUCKY date !)
3) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !
(Such as $543.2)
4) "Guesses" shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT location AND enclosed in markers of "Dollar Signs"
so as to be OFFICIAL ! Such as $$$$ 543.2 $$$$
5) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".
6) HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes HIGH NOON on Thursday, September 12th.
7) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY -- A short discussion paragraph of "Why gold is important to THAT PERSON as an investor/owner." This part of their entry MUST accompany their Price prognostication, OR the entry WILL NOT BE CONSIDERED!
----
THE PRIZES !!
To the person with the exact or closest "Guess" to the December ‘02 (GC2Z) SETTLEMENT price on Friday September 13th ----- an one-half ounce PURE GOLD Canadian Maple Leaf as the winning prize, with an one-tenth ounce PURE GOLD Austrian Philharmonic to BOTH the next closest guesses (runners up).
===
Tick tock --- 4 HOURS 20 minutes to GO !!
Thursday HIGH NOON Denver time is the DEADLINE for entries in this POG Settlement Contest !
<;-)



Alchemist (9/12/02; 07:48:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 84911)
$$$$$$$318.80$$$$$$$$$
I have always been a believer in gold. Since following closely this forum for the past number of years and following the reasoning of many of the posters, I am more convinced than ever that gold will be necessary to carry us through what I think will be very perilous times just ahead. Physical gold is one of the only items that has stood the test of time.

Guided (9/12/02; 07:38:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 84910)
$$$$ 324.7 $$$$
A position of trust in someones promise to pay just doesn't work for me. A position of possession does.

Canuck Gold (9/12/02; 07:21:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 84909)
$$$$ 322.7 $$$$
To me, gold is peace of mind, knowing that if the dollar takes a bath, I won't be one of those pounding on the bank doors in a futile attempt to get my money, because I don't store my wealth at the bank. I maintain as little cash there as possible to cover living expenses, with my stash of wealth safely hidden away from prying eyes.

Black Blade (9/12/02; 06:57:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 84908)
Current Account Gap Hits New Record

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The deficit in the U.S. current account -- the broadest measure of trade with foreign countries -- expanded sharply to a new record in the second three months of the year, the government said on Thursday, as the recovering economy sucked in imports. The second quarter current account gap grew 15.6 percent to $129.96 billion, up from $112.45 billion during the first three months of the year.

The number far exceeded analysts' expectations of a $123.84 billion deficit. The trade deficit on investment income grew a whopping 564.5 percent to a record $6.29 billion from just $950 million the previous quarter. The overall deficit reflected a widening in the goods and services balance to a record deficit of $110.61 billion.


Black Blade: Oops! It's actually much worse!!!





EagleOne (9/12/02; 06:54:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 84907)
$$$ 317.50 $$$
How to get something for nothing. Buy gold.

EagleOne

Black Blade (9/12/02; 06:35:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 84906)
Jobless Claims Surge Higher - Current Account Deficit Soars

Jobless claims surged higher by 19,000 to 427,000 for the week ended Sept. 7. That is well above recessionary levels! The current account deficit for the second quarter jumped $13 billion to $127 billion - OUCH! Import prices rose by 0.3%. That's right - no economic recovery! Oh yeah, look at those market index futures drop.

- Black Blade

Humble Pie (9/12/02; 06:28:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 84905)
$$$$320.60$$$$
Gold is vital to me because it keeps me out of the mess called The Stock Market. I may be wrong again but am never in doubt.

Black Blade (9/12/02; 06:19:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 84904)
Fed Chairman Greenspan to Testify Before House Budget Committee Today
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/020912/greenspan_4.html

Snippit:

WASHINGTON (AP) -- The uncertain recovery from last year's recession is giving Greenspan and his colleagues more than the usual number of headaches in their job of managing the economy. Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan, who hasn't talked about the economy since mid-July, may clear up some of the confusion when he testifies Thursday before the House Budget Committee at 10 a.m. EDT.

Black Blade: Then again, maybe he won't clear up any confusion. Alan Greenspan (aka "Cheetah") should mumble through his testimony while the congressional primates of both parties (orantutan and gorilla) sit with eyes glazed over and mouths agape as usual and occasionally nodding their heads aimlessly in agreement like a bad out take from "The Planet of the Apes". It should be more fun than a barrel of monkeys.

Speaking of "The Planet of the Apes", Kim Hunter who starred as one of the chimps passed away yesterday.



Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:58:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 84903)
$$$$ 320.4 $$$$

When all is said and done, gold is the ultimate insurance. I may dabble in stocks and various investments but a stash of physical gold will remain as ballast to sail through the coming "Perfect Storm" of economic uncertainty, declining equities markets and rising geopolitical tension.

- Black Blade

Hipplebeck (9/12/02; 05:51:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 84902)
A short revue of why we're in this mess
Back in the 70s when there was an oil embargo, folks realized we were way too dependent
on foreign oil.
There was a strong push to get independent and create other sources of energy.
Reagan/Bush became president/vice president, cheap oil followed and the desire for energy independence dropped off.
Fast forward 30 years, and we are now more dependent than ever, and now we must invade other countries to secure oil for our future.
Our leaders failed us. They continue to fail us.
Anyone who thinks the war on terror is about securing the safety of the citizens of this country has got their head in the sand. It is about securing the interest of the globalists in their quest for world dominance.
We are pawns to be sacrificed if necessary.
Become a sovereign nation unto yourself with your own central bank.
I hold gold in mine.

Black Blade (9/12/02; 05:50:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 84901)
European Markets Look Ugly
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

The markets in Europe are getting trashed this morning as the ECB leaves rates unchanged. Looks like a lot of "entertainment" on tap when Wall Street opens.

- Black Blade

misetich (9/12/02; 05:43:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 84900)
Is Iran the real US target in the Middle East?
The "Iraq" war drums have been beating for some time - pre-emptive strike as the reason, weapons of mass destruction etc etc.

Somehow things don't add up

Iraq has been under survellaince for the last 10 years, flights monitored and forbidden until recently when the Ruskies defied US sanctions -

UN weapon inspectors spend several years in Iraq

However

Iran has acquire nuclear parts and materials for other uses in the last 10 years, recently signed a deal with the Ruskies, successfully tested a missile - backs Hzibbolla (sp)

Iran has reiterated (threatned) re - Oil for Euro as Iraq has already implemented

US is already in Afghanistan - a successful Iraq attack would sandwich Iran -

Who is the real target?
Will Iran sit idle during this conflict?
Will China - increasing buyer of middle east oil - sit idle during this conflict?
Will the Europeans concede to the US this strategic middle east position?
Saudis posturing has been unfriendly to the US -

Just a few rambling thoughts -

How will this play out - what can we expect in future months ? Will oil prices skyrocket higher ? How will the fragile global economies react to higher oil prices?

How will gold react?

What will happen to the likes of JPM? as oil and gold presumably will skyrocket as they did previous to the US - Iraq conflict of 1990?

Got gold?

misetich (9/12/02; 05:28:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 84899)
Some Investors Tell Bill Gross to Stick to Bonds - (Gross says Dow 5000)
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_box.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&box=ad_box_all&tag=financial&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APYAS6RYZU29tZSBJ
Snip:

``Stocks stink and will continue to do so until they're priced appropriately,'' he wrote. He said the chances are slim that stocks can repeat the returns of 6.7 percent a year of the past 100 years.

In an interview on CNBC yesterday, Gross said his comments aren't a ``forecast.'' The 5000 level is ``where the valuation of the Dow probably rests,'' based on his analysis of historical dividend yields.
.........
David Tice, who profits by betting on declining stocks, said Gross' view of Dow 5000 is ``probably too optimistic.''

``We were irrationally exuberant at Dow 6000 when Greenspan made his speech in 1996,'' said Tice, whose $194 million Prudent Bear Fund is up more than 60 percent this year.
...........
***********
Misetich
Dividends yields are dwindling for example(see JPM soon)- earnings and sales are decelarating
Dow 5,000 - Gold?

Got gold?


Spartacus (9/12/02; 05:18:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 84898)
HSBC Hldgs exits gold trading in Hong Kong
http://sg.biz.yahoo.com/reuters/nhkg124085.html

HONG KONG, Sept 12 (Reuters) - HSBC Metals Ltd, a subsidiary of HSBC Holdings Plc , will disband its gold trading division in Hong Kong in the coming month, a senior executive said on Thursday.

"The bank has decided to exit gold trading in Hong Kong," said C.M. Lok, first vice president and head of bullion trading for the bank in the territory.

The decision was made in New York, Lok said, adding he could not give the reasons for the move.

"I was given the notice last month and I am here to wind down the business and clear up everything," Lok said.

The division should be closed by the end of the month.


Sundeck (9/12/02; 05:14:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 84897)
Sector #84813 Are our borders safe
For what it is worth, this story (uranium in a lead-lined pipe) made it to the national news here in Australia tonight. SBS (multicultural TV) free-to-air had a lengthy bit on it, complete with interviews with a somewhat embarrassed senior NY customs official. The cold war continues...

Sundeck

Golden Bear (9/12/02; 03:50:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 84896)
Topaz (msg#: 84895)
Regarding superannuation, the regulations are fairly strict, and the only way to invest in bullion is to have your own personal super fund...

The amount I have invested in super isn't that much, so it wasn't worth it for me to set up my own fund - I believed long ago that the scheme takes control of your finances away from you (I didn't like the prospect of the government locking up my money for 25 years and then able to change the rules when they felt like it), and therefore I put in as little as possible over the past decade.

What super I have is in the cash option (cash and short term government bills) offered by the fund. My real super fund is my bullion stash.

Cheers.

Topaz (9/12/02; 03:17:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 84895)
Golden Bear.
Ditto previous comments to Downunder GB, Tell me, did your Super Fund enquiries bear fruit?

Topaz (9/12/02; 03:02:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 84894)
Interesting !
1930:- Your currency is "unconditionally" backed by GOLD.
2000:- Your GOLD is "unconditionally" backed by currency.
...and it took them "3 score Years and Ten"

Golden Bear (9/12/02; 02:47:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 84893)
DOWNUNDER (msg#: 84892)
Howdy,

my apologies for the lack of scrutiny of that web site... my reason for displaying it was the link to the video clip proving the authenticity of the comment to Dan Rather...

I had no intention of pushing racial garbage, it was my first visit to that site.... I had seen the clip before just after 911 on another site, and posted the link so that others could see the clip and know that things are not as they seem...

Again, my apologies...

GB.





DOWNUNDER (9/12/02; 02:39:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 84892)
@GOLDEN BEAR - - - YOUR LAST POST
Hi there. I went to have a look at that site you posted & frankly I'm not at all impressed.It would appear to be a racist site for a start-- Didn't you notice at the top it says: Talk radio for Straight White Americans! I mean how can you believe anything from a site like that.Down the btm it invites you to comment--Click here to use our free message board.

I clicked & it doesn't exist BUT all sorts of pages start getting imported & only with much difficulty did I get rid of them as they kept re-appearing.

BTM LINE WARNING - -- Beware !

Golden Bear (9/12/02; 02:36:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 84891)
Topaz (msg#: 84887)
Greetings Topaz,

your point is well taken, BUT, this has nothing to do with foreigners and locals. This has everything to do with MAN, his actions, and their consequences for all humanity...

It just so happens that the US government's foreign policies have been atrocious for a very long time...

While where using metaphors... if you were to stick your head constantly over the fence and tell your neighbor how to run his household, and attempt to take it over and oust him, possibly to install new occupants, do you not think that you may get a baseball bat in the face? I would, so I don't do it.

Other governments of the world are little better, including our own here in Oz, but less overt than the US due to the fact that we are not a military powerhouse.

It is time for us all to take responsibility for our actions...

Cheers,

GB.


Topaz (9/12/02; 02:34:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 84890)
Downunder.
It's certainly not my place to critisize other posters mate and I'll stand corrected...bit old fashioned I guess.

Topaz (9/12/02; 02:25:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 84889)
kasperjack
I have heard these new "investment" initiatives to be promoted by the WGC are indeed "paper" instruments...Where's the merit in THAT?
It's also reassuring to note The Perth Mint GUARANTEES your allocated/unallocated Bullion deposit "unconditionally"....backed by Aussie PAPER!
Or more to the point...POLIMER.

Polimer Gold...get you some!
(sorry Ari)

DOWNUNDER (9/12/02; 02:25:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 84888)
@TOPAZ - - - RE COMMENTS FROM A FOREIGNER ??
Topaz your comments come as a surprise.Although they may have been made in good faith they do not apply for the following reasons :

YOU may feel like a "foreigner" here at this site I do not.
Australians have fought & died with US servicemen all over the globe & Australians were amongst those killed on Sept11.

Everyone is a guest here & expected to act responsibly.The US Govt is interfering in Australia & all over the planet & not always in a responsible manner.For the past week & especially the past 2 days Sept 11 has filled our T.V. screens & airwaves--it's been an orchestrated media orgy.
My posts have always been in response to a recent previous post that has been espousing patriotic nonsense.

If no more is to be said on this subject I'm sure that USA Gold will advise in no uncertain manner.

Topaz (9/12/02; 02:01:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 84887)
Golden Bear, Downunder.
Gentlemen Please!
Have you ever encountered a situation where a non-family member tries to butt in on a heated family discussion (coming down on one side or the other) only to be told by ALL parties to "butt-out" - Thats the impression I get when reading your recent posts.
We foreigners must regard ourselves as Guests here on the forum and (I believe) act accordingly... if a "local" chooses so to spleen vent about HIS Gov't then fine, but it seems a cheap shot coming from a Foreigner... more appropriate elsewhere, Yes?
FWIW. What is driving this "call to arms" is imo an attempt to ward off a Thirties style Depression induced by a Market lockup in the Bond arena "step right up and invest in these newly created WAR BONDS" - Gold is just a sideshow.


Topaz (9/12/02; 01:03:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 84886)
Sierra. sector.
Sierra:-
Probably not relavant to your query Bro, but I learned the other day that "Noteprinting Australia" had produced POLIMER Notes for you guys in Mexico.
All Aussie Notes are polimer now and they work pretty good.
sector:-
" There is a near-zero probability of sub-$300 gold again "
You won't mind if I store this little Gem on my virus ridden hard drive for display at the appropriate time? ;-)

Golden Bear (9/12/02; 00:59:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 84885)
And for those wearing their rose tinted glasses....video footage available...
http://www.halturnershow.com/FEMA.htm
Snippit:

"....PROOF: U.S. GOVERNMENT KNEW OF SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACKS;
SENT F.E.M.A. SEARCH & RESCUE TEAMS TO NYC THE NIGHT BEFORE ATTACKS OCCURRED!
By: Hal Turner


New York, NY (October 28, 2001) -- In the weeks since September 11, the "terrorist attacks" upon New York City
and Washington have begun to smell worse than the rotting corpses still buried in the rubble. The stench of government
involvement, government foreknowledge and cover-up is filling the air.

As various people go back to the audio and video of the days immediately after September 11, we are finding more and more
evidence that this whole incident is not what it seems.

Nowhere is this more evident than in remarks made by Tom Kennedy, a member of the Federal Emergency Management
Agency (FEMA) "National Urban Search and Rescue Team" during an interview on national TV with CBS News anchor
Dan Rather.

During the interview, Mr. Kennedy let slip a frightening truth. FEMA sent the Urban Search and Rescue Team to New
York City the night before the attacks occurred! Mr. Kennedy tells Dan Rather, "We're currently one of the first teams
that was deployed to support the City of New York in this disaster. We arrived on late Monday night
[Editors note: September 10] and went right into action on Tuesday morning" [Editors note: September 11]
Click Here to Listen to the actual interview segment in which these words are uttered...."
-------------------------------------------------------

GB: It is tragic that circumstances like these are what will eventually send POG soaring....

Golden Bear (9/12/02; 00:31:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 84884)
DOWNUNDER (msg#: 84882)
Well said my friend!

Cutting through the propagandist crap spewing forth all over the media allows one to see the shallow mind set and motivations of those in power in the Western world at present... it is a power grab and nothing more. All actions are planned in advance and very little happens by chance in the rotten game of politics.

You left out one bit though. The American Jewish lobby groups wield immense power within the USA overtly AND covertly, and therefore can push their own agenda very forcefully right to the oval office... as Ariel Sharon berated Shimon Peres with this line - "Don't worry about the Americans, we CONTROL the Americans!" This was stated in response to Peres' concerns that the USA would withdraw their support of Israel due to their continued incursions into occupied Palestinian territories.

As long as personal power agendas are the determinants of foreign policy, the events of 911 will not be the last, but the first of many, and more than likely, more horrific...

Regards,

GB.

goldquest (9/12/02; 00:19:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 84883)
@Sierra Madre
http://www.rense.com/general25/dedl.htm
Try this.

DOWNUNDER (9/12/02; 00:08:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 84882)
A YEAR LATER --- PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS
This was my first post (on another website) aboutUS Foreign policy. Almost a year ago today. Nothings changed to alter my view. My respects to those killed & all US citizens (except the ruling elite of the major political parties)

Date: Sep - 2001
PUT THE BLAME WHERE IT BELONGS

Firstly I want to offer my sincere sympathy to all American citizens-and especially to the families that have been affected by the actions of these fanatics. This will be the first time I have posted about US foreign policy. The crap I've had to wade through these past few days at --- has been unrelenting with only the occasional flash of reality.

Some 3 weeks ago I read in the local papers that the US had been warned that a major terrorist attack was imminent ---even the approximate time frame was given. Hijacking planes & using kamikaze tactics must have been up near the top of any list of possible methods that terrorists could use. It is criminal negligence of the highest order that allowed the NY scenario to become reality. Apparently it was OK to have up to a 4" blade onboard --but that aside hardened plastic would be just as good especially to fanatics with combat training. Who wins from this? Well the hardly literate President Shrub & the ruling elite now have got the means to galvanise the American people together to chase shadows. They will use this power for their own purposes & will use a war footing to do so. The state of the economy has now been overshadowed & blame can be apportioned elsewhere. Also we all can see they STILL can control the price of gold!

I have ALWAYS until recently backed USA in most matters where they have gotten involved militarily---and you gotta admit they saved Australia's ass & the western world as we know it during WW2. ETC----.Also for most of my life I've admired & supported the Jewish nation ---for its bravery in innumeral battles & for just how they survived after the holocaust.

People all over the world have seen how Israel has been been treating the Palestinians. The Israeli Government has been taking their land, bulldozing their houses & allowing the most rabid extremist Jews to continue with the spreading out off their settlements. This is not a good look & while it is not all one sided the Israelis are being seen as the agressors. The Palestinians mainly have stones to fight with against tanks, bulldozers & well-armed & trained soldiers. One cant help thinking that if the state of Israel was really wanting a lasting peace then it should start by pulling out of the extremist settlements & giving the land back to whom it belongs. Idiots like "------" & "------" spew out their totally biased one way crap week after week and are seldom challenged.

The US Government has not had the courage to tell Israel the truth. Israel should not be supported UNTIL it seeks a genuine and long-lasting peace with the Palestinians. Other US foreign policy is also suspect -they have many enemies. The American people are rightly patriotic --you have to stand by your country. However there is every reason why educated Americans should be yelling out about the way you are being used & abused by a rotten administration. They are TRAITORS indeed to have left the gaps they did in your Airport security. What a$$holes.




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