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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/12/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

tedw (9/12/01; 23:36:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61356)
retaliation, gold, oil
http://www.usagold.com

The targets are being picked now,of course. I would expect terrorist bases in Libya, Iraq, Iran, and Afghanistan to be probable targets.

3 of the 4 are OPEC nations. I think we will also see retaliation by OPEC for the upcoming raids. Spiking oil and gold prices.


Personally, I see no end to this cylce of violence until the radical muslims are completely defeated. My opinion has been for a long time that eventually Isreal will be attacked by the surrounding countries and forced to use nuclear weapons to survive.

May you live in interesting times.







Mr Gresham (9/12/01; 22:39:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61355)
Real (long-term) Target?
The Saudi monarchy? And "The Prize"

Black Blade (9/12/01; 21:47:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61354)
Insurers May Face $15 Billion Bill
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010912/business_attack_insurance_dc_4.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK/LONDON (Reuters) - Insurance companies worldwide are bracing for what could be their most expensive bill ever, as they await claims from the destruction of New York's World Trade Center. Insurers could pay out $10 billion to $15 billion, credit ratings agency Moody's Investors Services said -- second only to the $20 billion bill from Hurricane Andrew in 1992 -- but leading insurers and analysts said it was too soon to reckon losses.

Black Blade: As Insurers and Reinsurers are very large scale investors in the US markets, expect them to withdraw huge amounts of capital to make good on claims. That alone could crater the US markets. Looks like a US equities and bond markets CRASH in the making. Recovery will take many years.


Netking (9/12/01; 21:45:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61353)
Silver bugs - "What Now?"
http://www.investmentrarities.com/09-12-01.html
Silver Interview: Ted Butler & Jim Cook

The linked interview took place several days prior to Tuesday's tragedy. Mr Butler makes a brief comment about this event at the end of the interview.

Snippet:
". . . what I'm saying is, for sure, we will get a rally soon because of the shorts, and it may be, just may be, the big one. That's because with the funds this short, and not the dealers, we have the right preconditions for a melt-up. It doesn't guarantee a melt-up, but it makes it possible.

Cook: You said there were a few other things you saw that looked good for silver. What are these?

Butler: The news coming from the real silver market, the physical industrial market, is the best I can recall. Production is being curtailed and postponed faster than the current soft economic conditions are impacting consumption . . . "
------------------------------------------------------------
Auspec(61336)Yes Sir, especially at a time like this makes the 'Manufacturer and His handbook' indispensable yes. - Cheers Murray

Black Blade (9/12/01; 21:40:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61352)
Midway Airlines Closes; 1,700 Jobs Cut
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010912/business_airlines_midwayairlines_dc_4.html

Snippit:

CHICAGO (Reuters) - Regional carrier Midway Airlines, already operating under bankruptcy protection, on Wednesday became one of the first companies to cease business due to the terror attacks in the United States. Citing an expected drop in demand for air travel and a lack of financial resources, the Morrisville, North Carolina-based airline said in a statement it would end all operations and cut 1,700 employees, nearly all its remaining staff, effective immediately.

Black Blade: 1700 more nonessential "Unclaimed Bags of Bones" cast upon the "Bone Pile." Too bad, as I recall they were a moderate priced good quality airline. Under the circumstances it is hard to blame them as they can't operate under current conditions. Just more bad news to slam consumer confidence.


Black Blade (9/12/01; 21:34:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 61351)
Stock Markets Shut Thursday for Third Day
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010912/business_attack_markets_dc_6.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. stock markets will remain closed for a third straight day Thursday following the deadly air attack that destroyed the World Trade Center in Manhattan's financial district, exchange leaders and regulators said Wednesday. Equities trading will resume as early as Friday and no later than Monday, said New York Stock Exchange Chairman Richard Grasso, at a news briefing at investment bank Bear Stearns on Park Avenue in mid-town Manhattan.

Black Blade: Wall Street still on "Bank Holiday." If Worldwide markets are still skittish on Monday, look for the US markets to remain on "Holiday" indefinitely until non-US markets turn positive. Price manipulation comes in many forms.


David Linkley (9/12/01; 21:25:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61350)
A Little Late Night Gold News:
Peter Richardson, head of global commodities research with
Deutsche Bank AG comments. . . ``I think it's pretty clear that the initial reaction has been into safe haven buying in respect to gold. I think there will inevitably be -- until it's clear which way this is all going to go -- some degree of further safe haven buying. We'd certainly expect to see continued support for gold, even if it doesn't runaway, because I think if you look back at previous situations like this, whilst this is a big, single-day move in gold, it's not certainly unprecedented. It tells me that there is a lot of uncertainty and anxiety out there, but gold is obviously the logical place that people have gone to in times of great uncertainty and distress. I think, certainly in terms of the initial impact on the gold market (it's comparable with the Gulf War), but there's been a much smaller impact on the oil market.''

*

Indian gold imports have been halted at the moment because prices have surged, reports CNBC India. There is lot of uncertainty in the markets, the reason why gold importers have stopped importing the metal. (moneycontrol.com)

*

The UK government pressed ahead with a pre-planned auction of gold reserves yesterday, becoming an accidental beneficiary of the turbulence on the financial markets.

*

SYDNEY (Dow Jones)--South Africa's AngloGold Ltd. (AU), the world's largest gold producer, said gold prices are likely to rise over the next three years, even if demand stays flat. With supply falling because of constrained central bank sales and lending, gold prices will fall only if the world economy sinks into a 1930s-style depression that drags down jewelry consumption, AngloGold Chief Executive Bobby Godsell told reporters Tuesday. "We think there is a very strong case of increasing gold prices in the medium term."

*

[Dow Jones] Gold well placed for more gains, and any U.S. military retaliation in wake of terrorist attacks would fuel gold buying frenzy, possibly sending prices over US$300, says dealer with Japan trading house. Gold now around US$283.50, up sharply from US$271.50 late Tuesday in Asia.

*

[Douglas] Casey expects a "bull market in gold and mining stocks that will dwarf anything we've seen for literally decades, with the possible exception of the dot-com bubble." Yet like most gold believers, he says the metal, just $30 above a two-decade low, has been "a laughing-stock investment" for much of the 1990s."That's the way it is at the bottom of a cycle," Casey said. (Thom Callandra, CBSMarketwatch)

*

[Dow Jones] Many brokers not taking trading orders from
U.S. hedge funds on concern ongoing turmoil in New York may
hinder settlement, trader says. Some U.S. hedge funds placing orders from Tokyo outlets, but their U.S. headquarters usually handle settlement. Absence of these influential players breaks Nikkei freefall, index may see support in afternoon without hedge funds and on possible bargain-hunting by Japan pension funds, trader says.

*

US DOLLAR PLUMMETS
NEW YORK (Reuters): The US dollar generally rises during times of global uncertainty as nervous investors park their money in dollar-denominated assets, but analysts said the Swiss franc and the British pound are seen as the safe havens in the wake of Tuesday's attacks on the United States. "It's been pretty textbook," said Tim Mazanec, director of Investors Bank and Trust Company in Boston. "We've seen flows straight to the Swiss franc...then sterling and the euro. People are looking to move their money outside the US."


Black Blade (9/12/01; 21:18:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61349)
RE: Orville Goldenbacher msg. 61279

- These people think they are going to paradise, ie, "The great whore house in the sky".

Black Blade: I have to admit, I didn't think of it before, but your description is right on the mark. The martyr's reward is many beautiful wives in a great mansion in the afterlife. Sounds like a one way ticket to a brothel to me.




Max Rabbitz (9/12/01; 20:42:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 61348)
Empire State Building is now being evacuated
http://www.debka.com/
according to CNN. Now Penn Station. I hope a false alarm. But they may have something saved for a quick response after an expected U.S. retaliatory strike. Our country may be infested with these demons. Time for a change in our immigration policy. I hope we get our security and intelligence work done before there is any retaliatory strike.

Here is a clip from Debka file.

DEBKAfile's counter-terrorist experts recall the extraordinary appearance of the Egyptian-American Ali Mohamed, 48 as state witness at the trial in the Manhattan County court last April of the ring which carried out the 1988 US embassy bombings in Nairobi and Daar e-Salaam, causing 224 deaths, including 12 Americans. As one of Bin Laden's chief lieutenants, Mohamed's testimony enabled the US government to use the trial for building a comprehensive indictment against the entire Bin Laden terrorist machine. He was sentenced to life imprisonment for his role in the conspiracy, but was let off the death sentence. An expert in the art of invading the Western society's targeted for terrorism, he was a skilled double agent. Mohamed became a naturalized US
citizen and penetrated the US army's Special Forces facility at the Fort Bragg, and given the rank of US sergeant.
During his army stint, Mohamed organized and built up the pervasive network of Islamic "societies" operating with apparent innocuous intent in so many corners of America, with an anti-American agenda, which is far from pious.
They provide the infrastructure to support Islamic fundamentalist terrorist dedicated to "opposing non-Islamic governments with force and violence" - in the prophetic words of the US prosecutor at the embassy trial. Bin Laden was charged in absentia with endorsing a fatwah, or religious decree, ordering devout
Muslims to kill Americans, including civilians, anywhere in the world.

AEL (9/12/01; 20:40:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61347)
Nuke em all
Max Rabbitz (9/12/01; 19:41:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61339)
"When you fight and win a war you should get something, not just desert in a god forsaken Afganistan with a 4 year drought.
After all it's a terrorist network that involves several countries. So let's take Iraq, take the oil, use it as a base to hit surrounding
terrorist bases or countries if they don't behave."

.......... you're much too kind. I say: send our fly-boys
in there and nuke 'em all back to the paleolithic! Who do
them ay-rab towelheads think they are, anyway? Let's show
'em that they can't push us around! Incinerate them all...
and let God sort them out later.


SteveH (9/12/01; 20:30:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61346)
Canuck and Rich P.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010912/n12221047_1.html
NASDAQ.

slingshot (9/12/01; 20:22:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61345)
(No Subject)
Threat against empire state building. gone dark on Fox net

USAGOLD (9/12/01; 20:16:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61344)
Usul. . .
Is the post with reference to Nostradamus under #61334 (Cobra,too) accurate? I have seen Nostradamus bent to fit circumstances before (no offense intended and I'm sure you understand, my good friend CB2. I know you are as interested in the correct quote as I am, and presented the Nostradamus merely as a point of interest.) Also, can the "blue turban" references be applied? There is also the quatrain about "the scripts, the representations of gold and silver, being thrown on the fire." You are the resident Nostradamus expert. I ask you for this because I know you will give it to us as it is -- with the most universally accepted translation. Your assistance is requested. Please clear the air if you can.

SteveH (9/12/01; 20:12:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61343)
Canuck and Rich P.
I too heard that the NASDAQ was in the collapsing building across from the towers, a 54-story building.

Any symbolism here?

This is bad, very bad. Hopefully, there IT disaster recovery plan was up to date and active, including an off-site backup.

Canuck (9/12/01; 20:09:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61342)
@ Old Yeller
Old Yeller (9/12/01; 13:44:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61299)
Canuck; If gold does not prove itself today

The battle for truth and full official disclosure,as it relates to the real composition of the gold market;is a long ardorous slog.Circumstances would dictate that composure must prevail at this moment in time.Therefore,unless the unexpected happens and gold paper is suddenly questioned;personally,I would expect the POG to quickly revert back into it's trading range at this juncture.

Don't give up,the time will come.

Deepest sympathies to all in the USA.
---------------------------------------------------

Why????/

Canuck (9/12/01; 19:57:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 61341)
@ cananami
I agree with your post but the plane took an abrupt turn at Cleveland. I am not familiar with flying times but it seems a major on-board event took place at or around that location. The flight took an eastern path for a long time (perhaps as long as half an hour) before its destruction.

The reversal of its course surely caused concern. Secondly, the time-lag offered officals a window of opportunity for a option.

A detailed examination of flight path and time frame will determine fate of plane #4. As I mentioned earlier, landing carnage will determine cause of landing and as Auspec mentioned earlier "if we ever find out".

CoBra(too) (9/12/01; 19:49:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61340)
Re: Coincidence
Netking - I'm not a Nostradamus fan, nor a believer, though I found this post an extraordinary coincidence.

Auspec - Algor has fled the scene before he had the chance to tell the Austrian IFABO that he was keen to 'underwrite' being the godfather of the internet. (Un-)happily he had a real excuse to diffuse his abstruse abuse of plagiaritizing the event to the invention of the net, you bet!

cb(et)al (gory) too ...

Max Rabbitz (9/12/01; 19:41:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61339)
Let's take Iraq
When you fight and win a war you should get something, not just desert in a god forsaken Afganistan with a 4 year drought. After all it's a terrorist network that involves several countries. So let's take Iraq, take the oil, use it as a base to hit surrounding terrorist bases or countries if they don't behave. The oil is key, will be a great prise, and will cut off much of the funds supporting the terror. No worry about complying with sanctions. The desert is a great defensive buffer. The people would come to love us. We could feed the kids. Any trouble makers we could give to the Kurds or take for a drive in the desert (more than they'd give me or yours).

Risky, yes, but what isn't. We can't just wait for a suitcase nuclear bomb to take out Washington. It's time to start asking some hard questions of our Islamic friends or co-workers. There is no limit to the evil we are up against.

P.S. Someone yesterday blamed the U.S. for the deaths of 2 million Iraqi chidren. Did MK give a posting code to Saddem Hussein?

R Powell (9/12/01; 19:33:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61338)
Nikkei down
The Japanese stock market just broke 9500. It topped out some years ago at 39,000. What was the high point of the Dow?
I keep hearing reassurances that there will be no liquidity problems. How many times will this be repeated before the reassurances trigger panic. Will there be enough if all the world traveling fiats return home? How much will go to money heaven when the equities' markets reopen?
Any opinions on where the Dow and Duck go from here?
Opinions!?
Rich

Netking (9/12/01; 19:31:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61337)
Mideast reporters preparing to evacuate
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=24453
Snippet:
Newspapers in the United States have told their correspondents based in Israel to prepare to go to Syria, Egypt and elsewhere in the Persian Gulf, ostensibly in preparation for U.S. military responses following Tuesday's serial terrorist attacks.

The Jerusalem Post reported that "the purpose of the reassignments would be to cover the eventuality of any U.S. attack against Iraq, Iran, or Afghanistan, states accused of supporting terrorism. . . . "


auspec (9/12/01; 19:30:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61336)
Netking
I bet your 'Rock' is one for ALL ages, especially this one. What a foundation upon which to build!
Regards,
a

auspec (9/12/01; 19:22:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61335)
CoBra{too}
Sir! Yours is a very reasoned response and we see the 'larger picture' very similarly. Carnage begets carnage, and it is the likely way of the world for the rest of our lives, most unfortunately. I still do not fully understand the attractiveness as a target of the WTC. It seems to me to represent much more than simply the US, being an international entity. Anyone? WAS the IMF run out of the WTC for example. Are they striking at the capitalist heart of the US or an even larger target? This will bug me until solved.
May this be a just and measured retaliation.
Godspeed,
auspec






P.S. If you run into Algor in Austria please give him a gesture for me. You can select it.

CoBra(too) (9/12/01; 19:18:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 61334)
@ Netking - re- Coincidence ....
Sorry - link didn't work - though here's what Ive meant

Snip

Prior to this email, it struck me how the planes in
the videos appeared to be all entering their targets
at 45 degree angles. I thought how strange. Then this
showed up:

Bill:

Re-reading Nostradamus' to see "IF" what had happened
could be identified and his writings? Not only identified therein, but are frightenly correct...

Nostradamus' prediction on WW3:

"In the year of the new century and nine months,
>From the sky will come a great King of Terror...
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city..."
"In the city of york there will be a great collapse,
2 twin brothers torn apart by chaos
while the fortress falls the great leader will succumb
third big war will begin when the big city is burning"

--NOSTRADAMUS

Perhaps, the call for revenge ought to be thought out
in the most deliberate of manners. Who knows what is
going on here?

A time for much prayer and Cool Hand Lukes, not Nukes -
or retribution against innocent people.

All I know is, it could have been me. But for the grace
of God, it could have been many of us that worked in the
New York financial arena.

No more need be said now. I am just thankful to be alive
and pray for the loved ones that did not survive the
savage attacks on the WTC and the Pentagon.

unsnip .

.... and so do I - cb2








Netking (9/12/01; 19:12:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61333)
CoBra(too)
CB2, Could be a coincidence for sure, interesting to read if nothing else I guess. My family are on "The Rock" PTL.

What's the reference to "Le Metropole Members" haven't visited there for a while? - Cheers Murray

Hipplebeck (9/12/01; 19:09:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 61332)
war
I have been watching enough tv news now to realize that the plan is to attack all the countries that meet our rogue nation requirement. So far I have heard our own Senators and Congressmen mention Afghanistan, Syria, Iraq, Iran, North Korea, Lebanon, Libya, Sudan and even China. Are we really going to go to war against all these countries?

CoBra(too) (9/12/01; 18:52:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61331)
@ Netking -
Le Metropole Members,
...Coincidence?

... Interesting, to say the least - best cb2

miner49er (9/12/01; 18:36:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 61330)
US stock activity on Frankfurt exchange link...
http://de.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=msft.f+aol.f+dis.f+hwp.f+t.f+pg.f+ibm.f+orcl.f&d=2b&m=a
as the link Mr Gresham inserted below has become obsolete and is only showing the closing price for yesterday, try this modified version to show the last 5 days activity...

it will demonstrate rather starkly the sudden drop in temperature which took place yesterday as the attacks took place...

CoBra(too) (9/12/01; 18:20:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 61329)
@Auspec - VHS...
Will we ever be equipped to expect and counteract - under humanitarian principles - such an unprecedented attack
in this case on the icons of global capitalism, democracy and the symbol of defending personal liberty?

No, I don't think so. Though, democracies around the world are truly shocked and it may be time to analyze the motives of this atrocious crime.

As I may be not smart enough to come up readily with answers, I would not entirely direct the blame to muslim fundamentalism, schiism or any such lame excuses as to explain the abuses of modern tendencies of globalization,
which may be seen as NWO colonization by a major part of global population. A population, which toils akin to slavery, while being robbed of their resources, by the regime of IMF, WB and UN.

Our western civilisation and culture seems to be akin the olden wolf pack and vulture reaction to any, who've been left behind (and never had the chance; Ha, see Summers or Dornbush, a Harvard, MIT or UCLA degree) in shackles to serve their sahibs, masters and the strong persuasion of the shotgun.

... and as all of us are shocked and feel, retaliation is the only answer to this barbaric and cowardly attack, we just might forget that we all may carry some responsibility towards the fact - that the world has changed dramatically -and in fact, we may be more responsible than we'd like to see!

... And yes, there should be retalations, though please remember what the Marshall Plan has achieved after WWII -
- and we're all with you - even if I was too young to see
through the (shebang).

As we in Europe feel with you and offer our aid - it is you, who have to do, what you have to do!

Hoping you will find the right response - we'll pray for you - cb2



Mr Gresham (9/12/01; 18:16:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61328)
Randy
http://de.finance.yahoo.com/q?s=msft.f+aol.f+dis.f+hwp.f+t.f+pg.f+ibm.f+orcl.f&d=t&m=a
Greenspan, the PPT, and whoever sits on the paper POG every day would have gamed, simulated and modeled these days enough times so they'd be ready. They wouldn't be doing their jobs, as they see them, if they hadn't. _Especially_ in gold, THE historic crisis indicator, and especially since gaming the gold price began in earnest in 1997. Saving the payments system was Greenspan's maiden voyage at the Fed in 1987, when he spent a few tense days on the phone with the other bankers, central and private, and persuaded them to compromise on such arcane pitfalls as the different transaction clearance times between US and European markets.

He's probably always had a "working group" with a "football" of buttons to push ready at the moment of crisis. Y2k allowed plenty of time to get ready, and from Peter Fisher's lecture on the subject, they dealt with their liquidity mechanisms with a deft understanding of volume and timing. That they were able to ease off gradually from gunning the money supply was due to the psychological upswing still rampant in Bubbleonia. The Fed could sneak toward the exit because investors were not yet trying to run for the door themselves. This time? We'll see...

This one crisis response has probably always been "in the envelope" in case of a stock market shutdown, for whatever reason, of indeterminate length. And to make sure there is a "cash" cushion underneath those opening hours. Miner49er's link above from yesterday tells why.

The line between physical and derivative was drawn for all to see yesterday in the film of plane hitting tower. The One-Off Event of a lifetime. (Or the wakeup call of a lifetime, for the actual bubble piercing, whichever.)

It made ME grateful as all hell for having spent these two years with you all getting at least part of that concept -- physical, physical, physical -- through my stubborn, greedy, thinks-it's-ever-so-clever cranium. Thank you!

Netking (9/12/01; 18:06:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 61327)
Nostradamus
"In the city of God there will be great thunder, two big brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb. The third big war will begin when the city is burning" - Nostradamus 1554

canamami (9/12/01; 17:58:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 61326)
Re Canuck and the 4th plane
Sir Canuck,

CNN reports that the male passengers apparently tried to overpower the hijackers on the 4th plane. They had learned of the attacks on the WTC in the permitted cellphone conversations with their families. The male passengers apparently voted to try to overpower the hijackers, once they realized what was going on. The speculation is that the struggle caused the early crash, thereby sparing the intended target.

However, I had heard reports of a fighter intercept of the plane(s). (Internet reports from Tuesday morning referred to up to 8 planes missing). I opine that in Roman Catholic moral teaching, an intercept would be permissible under the doctrine of the double effect. The intended goal is to stop the lethal missile (i.e., the plane). The unintended effect is the death of the innocent passengers. The good achieved (saving perhaps thousands of lives and the government's integrity) outweighs the evil (the death of the innocent passengers, who will almost certainly die in any event). From a utilitarian perspective, an intercept is clearly justified.

Buena Fe (9/12/01; 17:57:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 61325)
COMEX
www.nymex.com
Auspec this is from the NYMEX/COMEX web site under "visitors", then "One North End Ave." See COMEX local below, hope it helps.
BF

One North End Avenue
World Financial Center
New York, NY 10282-1101
Telephone: (212) 299-2000
Fax: (212) 301-4700
The New York Mercantile Exchange broke ground on its new state-of-the-art trading facility in the World Financial Center on September 19, 1995. The opening of this new facility on July 7, 1997, caps off a landmark year for the Exchange, which also includes the celebration of its 125th anniversary.
The land is leased by the Exchange from the Battery Park City Authority and takes up one half a city block.
The newly built facility is 16 stories high and 500,000, square feet. The site has an area of 64,549 square feet with 314 feet facing the Hudson River and North End Avenue and 216 feet facing Vesey Street. The building features two 25,000-square-foot trading floors.
The NYMEX Division trading floor is on the third floor. The COMEX Division trading floor is on the seventh floor. Each trading floor is three stories high.
All booths on the trading floor have computer terminals for trade, price, and position information and internal communications.
Fiber optics are used throughout communications systems in the facility for reliable, noise-free data and voice transmission.
Price display wallboards with light-emitting diode displays have replaced the hard- to- maintain electro-mechanical devices formerlly used.
The business conducted in this new building represents close to 85% of the futures business transacted in the New York metropolitan area.
8,100 jobs have remained in New York City as a result of the move.
The new facility was built on the last commercial site available on the Battery Park City waterfront.
The ground floor features a museum on the history and functioning of the Exchange, open to the public free of charge Monday through Friday, 9 am to 5 pm.





auspec (9/12/01; 17:54:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61324)
Canuck
Fox News is reporting that a cell phone call from the 4th plane stated that "three men" were going to do something about the hijacking. That is either the truth or the spin, this man will ultimately be identified and made a proper hero should this be the case. I still doubt that this plane would have ever reached a strategic target.

canamami (9/12/01; 17:44:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 61323)
Condolences to American friends & previous 1999 posts
I've been away from my computer since the tragedy. This is to offer my prayers and to express my condolences to American knights and ladies on the Forum. May justice prevail, and may a just measure of retribution be exacted against the dogs responsible for this shameful attack. An attack against one is an attack against all.

I recall our friend the Stranger once worked with Morgan Stanley, which was harshly struck in the attack.

I have posted on previous occasions concerning the threat posed to North America by terrorist groups based on this continent. I tracked down a couple of posts from 1999 touching on this issue.

canamami (12/18/99; 8:43:16MDT - Msg ID:21260)
Reply to Peter Asher
This is one of the dirty unspoken secrets (actually neither secret nor unspoken, just underreported), namely that lax immigration laws and the loss of effective border control has resulted in the presence of untold terrorists and terrorist groups in North America. On various occasions, dedicated (and underpaid) border control officers have intercepted such intended projects, sometimes by gut instinct (no big background intelligence) and sometimes by plain, old dumb luck.

canamami (12/18/99; 13:19:11MDT - Msg ID:21267)
Further to my post#21260
Now I go on a true posting holiday. See the below Reuters article. There are also some French language Reuters articles on the Montreal ring:

Montreal Police See Theft Ring Link To Guerrillas
MONTREAL (Reuters) - Eleven men are awaiting trial in Canada in connection with the funding of Algerian extremist groups operating in France and other countries, police said Friday. Police said the men were arrested in September on charges related to more than 5,000 thefts over the past several months of laptop computers, cellphones and other valuable items from vehicles in downtown Montreal. Police said the men are suspected of funneling money garnered through the thefts to Islamic guerrilla groups overseas.


I've always felt that the computer-glitch Y2K business was wildly overemphasized, certainly concerning North America. I still have some vague fear of Soviet or other ICBM's crashing into North America due to computer error, but I live in an "A" target, and I'm going to be here New Year's Eve, having a good time, so I guess I'm not too concerned.

However, one real concern is that nut-case Islamic fundamentalist extremists will want to break up the Christian and secular millenium celebrations (remember, its only a new millenium in the Anno Domini and - new expression - Common Era world, not in the Islamic or other worlds). That's why the pyramid event was cancelled in Egypt: Islamic fundamentalists hate the pyramids (manifestation of a false religion) which draws Western tourists, and there were security concerns.



Canuck (9/12/01; 17:39:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 61322)
@ auspec
Saw your previous message.

The WTC building #5 is feared to collapse. I forget the address (1 Liberty Plaza?) I heard home of NASDAQ corpoate headquarters.

NYSE may trade Friday, Monday at latest.

Canuck (9/12/01; 17:35:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61321)
(No Subject)
The 4th plane turned at Cleveland is my understanding.

The TSE300 is due to open tomorrow.

Canuck (9/12/01; 17:33:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61320)
@ auspec
I was following the 4th plane and in talking to my sister-in-law last night in Cinncinatti can understand what happened. My guess (dangerous) is that the plane went so far west that several cities feared problems and I am sure the airlines and authorities (at that time) knew of the high-jacking so multiple rumours were rampant. I had heard of a 'downed' jet in Colorado, thanks to the hair-brained media.

The 4th plane, once the internal issues were resolved (crew murdered?) was finally diverted due east after an hour or more of flying due west.

In my opinion the plane was shot down. The statement of 'the benefit of the many outweigh the benefit of the few'
brings on new meaning after this trying time.



SteveH (9/12/01; 17:22:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 61319)
Bin Laden
The perfect proxy for the highest anonymous bidder. No one to blame, no country to fault, just got a terrible job done. Who are the real culprits? Those who had the most to gain. Make a list of what was gained and add it up. See what you come up with.

Canuck (9/12/01; 17:18:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61318)
@ auspec
Further,

The last plane (#4) made it to Cleveland before circling nearly 180 back to the east coast. What I am having difficultly with is the the flight patterns of the 4 planes. Apparently all 4 left the ground in close proximity but the time lags of impact were quite varied, over an hour in some cases.

I have the opinion that this horrific episode was orchestrated by neurotic freaks as opposed to 'highly' organized terrorists. That is to say that I disagree with the 'ultra-high organized' theories.

Flight recorders, if recovered, (possibly in 2 of the 4 planes) will shed light.


auspec (09/12/01; 17:12:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 61317)
Canuck
Yes, the opinion, but what will WE be allowed to know? IF {!!!!!} the decision to intervene was made, I believe it was correct and courageous. Did anyone else following yesterday's events hear of the 4th hijacked plane in the air, yet to reach a target?

Canuck (09/12/01; 17:08:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61316)
@ auspec
I hear you; I have heard that small pieces of the wreakage were found over a distance of 3 miles.

Is this a plane crash? I'm sure engineers will have an opinion rather quickly.

auspec (9/12/01; 17:00:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 61315)
Under The Rumor Category
I am putting up these particular thoughts as they pertain to Tuesday's 4th and last aircraft tragedy, largely because I have yet to see this view of the incident expressed. This is how events unfolded while I was at work and listening to the radio reports. Three aircrafts had already been hijacked by terrorists and had subsequently impacted their targets of destruction. NOW, it is reported that a 4th {!} hijacked plane is still in the air, yet to reach a target. This is not situational ethics, but a real life scenario, think this through please. Let's say YOU are the authority that has the responsibilities of deciding what to do with this plane; do you merely continue to track it or do you 'intervene'? I made that {my} decision in a calculated instant, may I never have to do so in actuality.
What brought down this plane? Intervention? Maybe a heroic crew? Will we ever know for sure? Maybe I've been reading too much Rense {almost none actually}.
Kind regards,
auspec

Tam (9/12/01; 16:56:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61314)
Jude Wanniski predicted this in advance and was ignored.
http://www.321gold.com/911/wanniski091201.html
In 1998 he wrote Jesse Helms and said, "It is a miracle that so little damage was done in the World Trade Center bombing. There is no reason to disbelieve that if there is a next time, the mind of that terrorist will succeed in taking the twin towers down completely."

He's written a great piece we all should read so we can better understand what happened and why it may well happen again.

Netking (9/12/01; 16:41:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61313)
Warning: More Attacks , Use of Weapons of Mass Destruction, Possible
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/11/163413.shtml
Col. Stanislav Lunev, is the highest-ranking military officer ever to defect from Russia, Col. Lunev has served as a consultant to the CIA, the FBI and the Defense Intelligence Agency, he gives an interesting view of what happened along with some sobering predictions (per link above)

auspec (9/12/01; 16:07:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 61312)
COMEX-- What is True?
My local newspaper, a large one, had a map within that showed Comex at the base of one of the WTC Towers. There is no way it could not have been at least somewhat effected. I also found this announcement posted at Cafe ChatRoom:

This from Statfor.com

"Commodities trading will also be disrupted. The floors of the New York Board of Trade, located at 4 World Trade Center, which trades coffee, sugar, cocoa, cotton and orange juice futures, is buried beneath the debris of the collapsed towers, Reuters reported. The New York Mercantile Exchange, which trades large amounts of petroleum and precious metals, is very close to the attack site and will be disrupted as well."

END
What is rumor and what is fact? We watch together, no?



Sierra Madre (9/12/01; 15:27:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 61311)
Randy, Site Steward: "Awash in liquidity...."

Well, Randy, you know a whole lot more about the ins and outs of Central Banking in the US and elsewhere, but...I have an intuition that what will be taking place, or is already taking place, is "VIRTUAL" nationalization of the US banking system, without calling it such.

How much is left of the "private" banking system when the weight of the Fed is taken into account? It seems to be to be ALL BECOMING ONE AND THE SAME THING, call it what you will.

Correct me if I am wrong.

Sierra

R Powell (9/12/01; 15:27:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61310)
Correction
Markets open no later than Monday and no earlier than Friday. Sorry.

R Powell (9/12/01; 15:23:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 61309)
Markets open or shut?
Stock exchange to open no later than Friday and no earlier than Friday according to Mr. Grasso of the NYSE. Source is CNBC.
The CBOE and CBOT will be open and trading tomorrow with the exception of index futures and options on index futures. This makes sense as the futures and options on them derive their value from the index number itself. These numbers fluxtuate around the clock but are thinly traded when the stock exchanges are closed.
The Comex should be open. CNBC said all futures will be trading except the index numbers. It will be interesting to see how the world's great markets react without any input (direction?) from Wall St. It may be a good thing to get business up and running as fast as possible. Not to belittle the magnitute of the events, but the longer the delay, the greater the danger of systemic failure, IMHO).
I don't know if the bond market will function tomorrow or not??
Rich

Sierra Madre (9/12/01; 15:18:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61308)
Interesting article by Skolnick. Another point of view.
Skolnick - US Government
Had Prior Knowledge Of
Emergency
By Sherman H. Skolnick
skolnick@ameritech.net
http://www.skolnicksreport.com

You can read this article also at www.rense.com

Sierra

slingshot (9/12/01; 15:17:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61307)
Belgian Msg# 61302
Concern
Escalation is the only solution for the failure of the world
to be concerned about TERRORISM.

With or without the support of NATO the strike will happen!

They are showing over and over the scenes on the news. Do you think Bush can back down?

The terrorist bit off more than they can chew! Reports of injury to Americans of Arab decent on the news.

Well, Ladies and Gentlemen . Like they say in the stockmarket. We're in for the long haul.
Slingshot

Belgian (9/12/01; 14:56:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 61306)
Old Yeller / Canuck
Old Yeller, me think you are right. This crisis, showed in flashing speed, how *extremely* important POG is in the Ponzi Pyramide. The instant short covering of Gold was the good old reflex as a reaction on the dollar's kneejerk.
And the Big Boys, know, that there manipulgame is still intact (at present) and therefore don't see a reason to let POG go. But the tragedy and its consequences (!!!!), will surely cause some additional pressure on the physical accumulation by lilliputans. POO is giving some help to de-pressurize, politically and financially.
Gold/Oil/$/SM/IR/ need to be looked at from a pure economical **POLICY** point of vieuw !! Wim Duisenstein was very cooperative and gives thereby evidence that the contraction, very dangerous contraction, is Global !
A dramatic flight from the dollar is "catastrophic".
This "dilemma" is staring us right into the eyes. My conclusion has, again, gained some extra weight (evidence), on the strategy that you cannot afford the luxus to remain without physical Gold in possession (Canuck-?).

Question is : will the coming policy be oriented on the avoidance of an economic debacle or will the coming policy be oriented on continued Global Dominance ? Two complete different options with possible two different outcomes.
Combining both off them seems, from now on, very unlikely and not feasable. The power-balance has shifted drastically.
Because the tragedy was unfortunately, succesfull. It might even be a cause for internal (US) division, later on, perhaps a split in present, seemingly NATO unison. Watch France and its liaison with the Arabs !

Netking (9/12/01; 14:55:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 61305)
Israeli intelligence: "Iraq financed attacks "
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/breaking_1.html
Snippet:
"Iraq recruited Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden and his Islamic allies to carry out the suicide attacks around the United States, according to Israeli intelligence.

Israeli officials and intelligence analysts said the suicide hijackings that downed the World Trade Center and destroyed parts of the Pentagon was too large an operation for any one group. The analysts said the operation was also too big even for a coalition of Islamic terrorists headed by Saudi billionaire fugitive Osama Bin Laden. Bin Laden is accused of masterminding the bombings of the U.S. embassies in eastern African in 1998.

Intelligence sources briefed the Cabinet of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on late Tuesday, hours after the catastrophe in New York and Washington. The sources were quoted as telling the Cabinet that a Middle East government was probably the sponsor of the attack.

The most likely sponsor for such an attack, the sources said, is Iraq. The Baghdad regime has long maintained an alliance with Bin Laden and Islamic groups. . ."
-----------------------------------------------------------
A "Middle East Government" . . . If this is correct, you don't need to be a rocket scientist to calculate what'll happen next. . .
- Netking


site steward (9/12/01; 14:55:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61304)
Interesting! Awash in "liquidity" -- and a closed stock market.
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010912/n12340993_1.html
Imagine that you were an owner of a variety of both categories of assets -- paper assets (stocks, bonds, derivatives) and physical assets (gold metal) -- at a time when the markets in each became illiquid through temporary suspension of trading. Which type of asset would you inherently feel would decline in subsequent market value as a consequence of the market closure, and which asset would likely enjoy appreciation at such a time?

That aside, the specific aspect of "liquidity" that is now dominating the thoughts of the banking world these days is not in regard to the market trade in various assets mentioned above, but rather, it is in regard to the vital maintenance of liquidity among interbank settlements.

Following are sample headlines add to the general theme of those I provided yesterday.

HEADLINE: G7 says ready to provide liquidity after attacks

(Monetary officials of the G7 issued this statement: "We are committed to ensuring this tragedy will not be compounded by disruption to the global economy. Our central banks have indicated that they will provide liquidity to ensure that financial markets operate in an orderly fashion.")

HEADLINE: Swiss National Bank repeats ready with extra liquidity

HEADLINE: Fed adds $38.25 bln to U.S. banking reserves

By now you are all intimately familiar with the inflationary aspect of the Fed's almost daily open market operations of repurchase agreements and outright purchases. You may recall that we remarked last week in reaction to Thursday's $14 billion operation adding reserves to the banking system, saying that operations of that size were quite uncommon.

Having said that, I hope everyone has a full appreciation for this data that Mr. Gresham was quick to report earlier this morning -- that the Fed added $38.25 billion to the banking system today using overnight repurchase agreements through open market operations. These were the first open market operations following Tuesday's attack, and the Fed accepted all bids using all forms of collateral indiscriminately -- to solidify the FOMC target of 3.5 percent.

This comes in the wake of info I offered earlier today on actions by the ECB and BoJ:

----The European Central Bank lent about $63 billion to banks in an unscheduled tender, while the Bank of Japan said it handed out almost $17 billion.----

This is only the visible actions and quantities we *KNOW* about, and may be just the tip of the iceberg. The following hints at what may lie beneath the surface...

HEADLINE: Fed says credit available through discount window
(see full article at URL above)

According to this Reuters article, a Fed spokesman said, "The discount window will remain available to supply liquidity to the financial system as needed."

And while we know that no open market operations were conducted yesterday, we see that reserves were provided nevertheless. The spokesman said, "Discount window borrowing yesterday was substantially elevated above normal levels. The lending proceeded smoothly.''

The article explains this rather well, so I'll draw your attention to it specifically:

------The discount window serves as sort of backup credit line for banks at the Fed. Banks are ordinarily somewhat reluctant to use it, for fear it may raise questions about their financial status.
+
The discount loan rate stands at 3.00 percent, a half-percentage point lower than the more widely-watched federal funds rate, which governs overnight loans between banks.---------

And here is the ominous part that touches on the "settlement liquidity" element that I began with:

-----The central bank's announcement was part of broader steps taken by monetary authorities to reassure markets throughout the world after the attacks. Policymakers are concerned the uncertainty brought about by the attacks may lead to a situation similar to autumn 1998, when global capital markets began to ``seize up'' in the wake of the Russian debt default.-----

R.

Netking (9/12/01; 14:37:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61303)
The Window . . . .
The window of opportunity that has allowed people to accumulate physical gold & silver at ridiculous price levels . . . is almost closed. Who knows (I don't) but this week may be the last opportunity before a "storm" strikes, don't be fooled by any sense of calm, be prepared.

- Netking

Belgian (9/12/01; 14:14:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61302)
@ Sir Gresham
No Sir, I haven't been clicking your postings away !
On the contrary. I Have no intention to ventilate my opinion on american affairs...but only one fundamental remark/question : does the US understood the message of this tragic drama ? And what does the impulsive reaction (content) on it, is showing so far ? High noon for wise introspection ? Making the choice for "escalation" instead of working on "solutions", will concern us ALL !

R Powell (9/12/01; 13:55:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61301)
Choice of targets
The targeting of the Pentagon seems self evident but, while most might assume that the towers were targeted as the tallest New York buildings, I believe that they were targeted to disrupt the financial business of the country. As far as funding for and pressure on the government to implement the identification and apprehension (dead or alive probably) of those responsible, picking the home of the biggest financial operators in/of the world, assures that the maximium efforts will be forthcoming. Money, if necessary, will be no problem. Pressure to accomplish the task regardless of the restraints of law, international or otherwise, will be relentless. Basically, the big money boys are not pleased right now.
I'm not trying to make any judgments, moral or otherwise, I'm just speculating as to what has happened and what is right now.
Quiz answers
Dow 9605.85
Nikkei 9610.10
Hang Seng 9493.62
Two out of three is a passing score.
Rich

Buena Fe (9/12/01; 13:55:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61300)
God Pleasers
I agree OY, perceptions are gently swinging away from paper, momentum will pick up with time.

It takes faith, a soul (immaterial) muscle few have kept in shape. But faith is THE most important muscle we must exercise from now on!

Faith=Believing(immaterial) before seeing/experiencing(material)

Old Yeller (9/12/01; 13:44:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 61299)
Canuck; If gold does not prove itself today

The battle for truth and full official disclosure,as it relates to the real composition of the gold market;is a long ardorous slog.Circumstances would dictate that composure must prevail at this moment in time.Therefore,unless the unexpected happens and gold paper is suddenly questioned;personally,I would expect the POG to quickly revert back into it's trading range at this juncture.

Don't give up,the time will come.

Deepest sympathies to all in the USA.

R Powell (9/12/01; 13:38:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61298)
Parity
Quick quiz
Match the markets with the numbers

Dow, Hang Seng, and Nekkei

9610.10, 9605.85, 9493.62

Answer shortly

Mr Gresham (9/12/01; 13:01:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 61297)
Simply Me
Thanks for acknowledging my heart in your remarks here. We all bring our differing life's experiences to the forum, and there is not time nor opportunity to change each other's perspectives by very much. Only to respect one another here, from beginning to end.

I have had experiences that proved to me the potential of what King and Gandhi were teaching. Not without risk, but with satisfaction enough for a lifetime. And, yes, circumstances surrounding their actions did favor, though not guarantee, their success.

Yes, rebelling against ancient Rome, both King and Gandhi and their followers would have been lined up on crosses up and down every roadway, as thousands of rebels in fact were. We aspire to be less savage than that dead civilization, and we have come far.

It is to the Palestinians that I would also have recommended Gandhi's path, for now they may suffer even more, having embraced the acts of those who may not have even been acting on their behalf.

Hitler executed Dietrich Bonhoeffer, a religious leader. Wasn't he the one who confessed to not being on the ball when Hitler started on the Jews, and when they finally turned on him and the rest of Germans "there was no one left to help me."

Like Bonhoeffer, you have to start back with earlier events and actions, and roads not taken. The point is that US policy (or non-policy) has led us into being this target. Now we must deal with that undesired role. When you start discussion only from this point forward, well, you are behind already, and can only argue about relative trivialities.

Does the government of my country act for me, if it follows policies I disagreed with, with actions to address those deficiencies? (P.S. I'm hearing Colin Powell on now, sounding very Presidential...)

We followed WW2 victory with a Marshall Plan, to rebuild defeated enemies, and win their people back into the greater world community.

The "high road" I tried to suggest would start with an "honest broker" role in bringing a solution to the enmity that has engulfed us. Is it impossible for our country to be sincere, and be seen as such by all parties? Possible, only if we demand it.

Lunatics could still attempt to attack us per their agenda, but wouldn't they find themselves abandoned by most of their foot soldiers?

War, and peace, are many-layered undertakings. Why shouldn't we do our best at all levels? We certainly have unparalleled resources; why not will? What is world leadership about, anyway?

Of course, I do not logically expect that history will follow my thoughts very far. (Though a turnaround point could begin in such a dramatic time.) The heads of nations are likely to be all of a kind; just with differing capacities to inflict their wills on others. But my conscience demands that I speak of such possibilities. As Henry Thoreau said in opposing the Mexican War land grab: "Why then has every man a conscience?"

Sorry for going on so, but I know you all can skip over that which is not of interest to you. Click...

slingshot (9/12/01; 12:35:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 61296)
Prediction
Greenspan will not retire before the end of the year. He is the figure head for the financial world.

Will take Two to three months to sort out the information gathered to identify the enemy. This corresponds with Israels end/beginning of the year time table for war. The U.S. will attack terrorist encampments and the Arab world will attack Israel. In my opinion.

It does not matter now who did what in the past.We do know that a military action is in the future. The evidence is mounting and our window of opportunity will slowly close.

Precaution should be the word for today. After today, what I seen at the dealer, I am convinced that a flight to save wealth has begun.

The business of accumulation of gold and silver will become
of great importance in the near future. We must pay close attention to the events that soon unfold.
Slingshot

Netking (9/12/01; 12:31:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 61295)
"No option" is out of the question
Snippet:
Reeling from the most devastating day of terrorist attacks in history, President Bush and his advisors began a series of meetings on Wednesday designed to devise a response that would convey the depth of the outrage felt across the United States without appearing to lash out blindly. While making no public accusations, administration officials hinted strongly they were weighing a substantial military strike against the Islamic militant leader Osama bin Laden and his backers in the Middle East.


No Option ruled out:

THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life — mostly in New York City's World Trade Center, but also near Pittsburgh and Washington — ensured that "no option has been taken off the table," a senior U.S. official told MSNBC.com.

Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: "I said no option is out of the question. That's precisely what I mean." Despite the fact that the American military has been placed on high alert around the globe, the administration dampened speculation that an attack on one or more suspected culprits was imminent.

We are far from selecting any particular military targets or how to go after those targets at this time. We have go to build a case," Secretary of State Colin Powell said on an ABC News morning talk show. . . . "
------------------------------------------------------------
The date of September 18th (mentioned here the other day) is now only a week away, yet it's more plausable possibly today than than at this time last week . . . may God bless you all & cause cool heads to prevail, everywhere.
- Netking

Canuck (9/12/01; 12:14:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61294)
Things get more bizarre by the day
Gold, pre-disaster: $271

Gold, post-disaster: $275

Some players are busily 'papering' over physical demand, the question begs, will they be able to apply these stall tactics long enough until physical demands wanes down?
The 'separation' of physical and paper markets, discussed on this forum for 3 years has opportunity to prove itself.
A continuation of the 'same old-same-old' leaves me with the disturbing thought that perhaps the cabal has the PERMANENT upper hand in this relentless chase and leaves me to ask myself what is the reason for hanging in? The world has finally proved to me, without a shadow of a doubt, that it is a madhouse and if gold does not prove itself today, it may never. I speak to my son in relative terms of the changing planet, as my father did to me, and it is crystal clear that in the last 2,3,4 generations, however one wishes to measure obsurdity and insanity, the world has blazed through and past reality.

NYSE and other US markets closed for day 2. In my confused mind closure of a third day signals problems greater than one presently imagines. The 3 buildings and surrounding area represent enormus physical loss. Coupled with the undescribable human loss, this devastation will either shut down finances or it won't. As each day passes, the clarity of the situation will improve and I firmly believe we approach the black or white definitive call.

Whirling messages of Comex 'lost records' is indeed puzzelling, as market closures continue and stretch out, validity of these statements will begin to take shape. As a reporter claimed yesterday "the aftermath and the effects of the devastation will be one-hundred fold as what is plainly visible."

I await day three.

Matt (9/12/01; 11:51:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61293)
Re: PH in LA---
I absolutely agree with you--very well spoken!
If the United States has to go it alone, militarily speaking, in seeking out the perpetrators and destroying them, we certainly have the moral authority to do so.

However, it's very critical we have the full support and military sharing of NATO countries in our response, otherwise we will be further isolated from moderate Arab governments who already dislike us intensely for our general singular strong support of Israel (in comparison to lukewarm European support).

This will be a test of German/French friendship and commitment to us and NATO; or will this be the dividing line between future commitment to NATO or to the developing European military establishment. We will see what "Oil" says about this.

Orville Goldenbacher (9/12/01; 11:30:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61292)
(No Subject)
I believe in a persons right to believe anything they want to. I would fight for a persons right to believe in Allah, Krishna, Buddah, Jesus, Bab, Bob, Whoever they like. Everybody has, IMHO, the right to be wrong, or right. I may not agree with them, so what?

When others infringe on MY RIGHTS, killing innocent citizens, things change.

"My" government has been guilty of these offenses, as well.
Their were many innocent citzens of Iraq who were needlessly slaugtered by "Cowardly" airstrikes in civilian neighborhoods.

Two wrongs don't make a right.




CoBra(too) (9/12/01; 11:29:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61291)
Kontratieff Winter!
On the first day after disaster has struck American soil in such a tragic way, greed has been replaced by fear. And the world we have known has changed in a fundamental way - the in-vulnerability of the USA had had potentially its gravest blow. A blow, which will have its ripple effects to take hold in all walks of american life and that will also be felt around the globe; As a building groundswell of less hope and more reality, less confidence in the mainstream press and more prudence in forming one's own future, is it politically, financially or socially takes hold.

And even as the western world is trying to placate the markets -including POG - by standing by with new liquidity from every and all CB's, in already overall weaker trending markets, it may only be, lastly the proverbial spit in bucket. N.A. closed it's SM's, who knows, indefinetly and asks its friends not to take advantage of its industry and currency. Just wondering how the maxxed out US consumer /investor will stand the test?

And as I pray for all, who've lost friends or family and above all for the souls, who went to eternity - I hope and pray that for all of us this should light the way to an equitable and shared process of stable economic and political fundamentals of a more just division of labor.

Thank you - cb2



AEL (9/12/01; 11:29:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61290)
Imperial Paralysis
http://www.antiwar.com/justin/justincol.html
September 12, 2001

IMPERIAL PARALYSIS
The fragility of American power

.....
.....

The sheer fragility of the American Imperium is
what is painfully apparent here. Painful most
especially to the US government, whose complete
inability to defend the country while claiming the
mantle of the world's only superpower is exposed for
all to see. It is the weakness of an entity that has
grown too big, too overextended, too blinkered by
pride (some would call it hubris) to see the pitfalls of
the policies it has pursued, not only in the Middle East
but around the world, from the Balkans to the Far
East. Our foreign policy of global military and political
intervention in the internal affairs of other nations,
from Bosnia to Belarus, has produced what policy
analyst Chalmers Johnson has referred to as
"blowback." In his book of that title, as if in
anticipation of the perplexed "Why?" of the average
Americans'reaction to this carnage, Johnson wrote:

"Only when we come to see our country as both
profiting from and trapped within the structures of an
empire of its own making will it be possible for us to
explain a great many elements of the world that
otherwise perplex us."

.....
.....

"America is in denial that much of the world
hates us," rants Horowitz, "and will continue to hate
us. Because we are prosperous, and democratic and
free." But the US government is perfectly well aware
that large sections of the globe have no love for the US
government, and yet this has not had the slightest
effect on US foreign policy. The whole Arab world is
united in its opposition to our mindlessly pro-Israel
stance – including the Saudi and Kuwaiti regimes that
we prop up with our troops and treasure – but that has
not altered our position one iota, no matter who
occupies the White House. It is so typical of the
paranoid and reflexively defensive Horowitz to inveigh
against all those terrible foreigners who supposedly
hate us because we're so wonderful. But I wouldn't
count on either prosperity or freedom if the war
Horowitz and Kagan would so dearly love to see
declared and fought should ever come to pass. For the
only way we can "win" such a battle is to lose the very
values that we want to defend in the first place.

Voyager (9/12/01; 11:26:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 61289)
Thank you
I am just a simple man, doing the best I can to take care of my family, business, and employees.

I have closely followed USAGOLD and have been buying gold since early 1998. I want to thank especially MK for his use of reason, patience, and teaching in guiding the evolution of this forum to where it is today. A beacon of economic truth in a wasteland of lies from the "mainstream" financial press. I also want to express my appreciation to all of the posters, current and past, for their financial education and tireless thoughts and reporting.

The grim reality that our own government is the enemy of the American People is almost beyond my comprehension. I do not look forward to the destruction of the dollar and the resulting misery on the adverage American and their families. But, I do not think anything less will break this stranglehold.

Will America ever be the same? I sure hope not.




Simply Me (9/12/01; 11:10:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 61288)
@ Mr Gresham RE: (9/12/01; 08:12:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61268)
Although I know your heart is in the right place when you and others here on the forum call for a Ghandi-esque response to yesterday's attacks on the US, I must point out that Ghandi's enemy was quite different than the one we now face. The British were very vulnerable to attacks on their economy (salt, tea, cotton, etc.), their world political image (images of brutality very unpopular at home and abroad), and their conscience (shooting unarmed civilians was abhorant to the average British soldier's moral upbringing). These vulnerabilities became weapons in Ghandi's hands.

We have no such weapons against an Islamic jihad that is willing to sacrifice every shred of earthly wealth and respect for their cause. They dread only two things, rejection by Allah and the destruction of their families. They believe they are doing the will of God and defending their own families by killing American's at every opportunity. How do you propose we keep our own families safe against that kind of vicious hatred?

Both Ghandi and MLK were under-dogs rebelling against the oppression of wealth and power. Our current battle is against mad-dogs who seek to tear our children to pieces.

Haven't you seen it coming? Why do you think World War II has been featured in so many movies, series, stories, documentaries, and discussions lately. That was the last "romantic" war glorifying defense of the "just cause".... the last patriot's war. That's the kind of fervor it will take to defeat religious fanatics who will commit suicide for the chance to kill American mothers, fathers, sisters, brothers and children.

This is by no means an indictment of all Muslims. The Koran preaches peace as much as the Bible does. But...as it is, the fanatics rule the day. And until moderate Muslims can pull the fanatics into line, we must defend our families with every resource we have.

And, as for the people or countries who harbor terrorists...do we not, in our own justice system, have severe penalties for people who knowingly harbor, aid and abet criminals? Or should we excuse Terry Nichols, who is facing the death penalty for only helping Timothy McVea in the Oklahoma City bombing?

At the center of the Great Seal of the United States is the Eagle who fears no storm because he's strong and smart enough to fly above the clouds. In one claw, he holds the olive branches of peace. In the other claw, the arrows of war. The Eagle looks toward the side of peace...but keeps the weapons of war ready in defense.

I can add nothing to the discussion on gold, as I think it is all too clear, now, that gold-in-hand is necessary to every family's economic defense.

God Bless the U.S.A.
With affection and respect for all USAgold posters,
simply





Orville Goldenbacher (9/12/01; 11:07:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 61287)
Slingshot@bargain hunters....
It's like around here. I called the local gas station, and asked: How much is gasoline, today?

"It's a dollar-sixty-eight, but, we are sold out and don't have any gasoline today."

Mr Gresham (9/12/01; 10:39:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61286)
Fed Open Market Operations
http://app.ny.frb.org/dmm/mkt.cfm
Incredible $38 billion. No stone unturned, no bids turned away? Randy?

slingshot (9/12/01; 10:38:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 61285)
Bargain Hunters on the move.
The Dogs of War are howling and uncertainty has fueled the move to PM's.
I have come from two Coin/Bullion dealers.
1oz eagles Gone 7-10 day order
1/2 eagles Gone
Small amount of 1/4 and 1/10
Silver 1oz rounds Gone
10 oz bars Gone
100 0z bars Gone
90% coin Gone
The only thing in silver are those High priced commemoratives and Silver Eagles.

Dealer #1 "Steady stream of business after 12 P.M. yesterday"

Dealer #2 " Can not get a price on 1oz gold eagle. Will be over $300.00 but I do not have one. I can order."
You snooze, you loose.
Slingshot



Belgian (9/12/01; 10:34:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61284)
I.R.
Consumer confidence must be maintained and lots of central banks will lower IR with another 0,25% and maintain IR low for the months to come. 80 billion on liquidities injected, so far. Middle-East is very cooperative to contain POO.

Christian (9/12/01; 10:20:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61283)
Criminal investigation.
Most Americans are now in the stock market. Virtually every IRA, every 401 k plan every Keogh, is now in the stock market. 3/4 of our life savings has somehow been suckered into the stock market. Daddy Bush, Greenspan, Rubin control by means of ownership the largest hedge funds who have made a killing shorting stocks. This is a trasfer of wealth to men who will do anything to make even more blood money. Even Edward Kennedy and McCain are in this deadly game for financial superiority. Mr. Bush in the cabinet room your enemy is looking over your shoulder. His dad financed Hitler who turned Germany into a Nazi dictatorship. By escalating a war you Mr. President are doing the same. Ask your dad how much money he made from those hedge funds. Do the same with everyone else in government. Make it public. A lot of these hedge funds made over 100% and most have a $1 million $ enterance fee. Poor people not allowed to make money. But for the rich to take from the poor via the 401 k plans is a good thing. The cowards who attack from the shadows are those who finance other people to do the dirty job. In our court of law the one who did the dirty job gets sentenced. Those who financed it have all kinds of money to buy lawers and judges to buy their freedom. It's a cowardly act not to have constitutional money. At least now you can spend the lock boxed social security money for more acts of terrorism on the people of the USA. Now there is lots of room for printing more money into circulation via loans where the interest is never printed into existence. Usury is good. By the way Mr. President at the cabinet room, that $800,000 income you get yearly comes from a fund that is located where? And just how is that money in that fund invested? So on whose side are you on? Seems to me you are working for the British Crown........ Make it publich. Let us open these hedge funds and see just what these cowards are really investing money. Money invested to destroy 401 k plans is not exactly put to productive work. Is money invested to manipulate the gold price put to productive work? This attack was an attack on our financial system, not an attack on freedom. This attack was financed from within. This time lets get the crooks who finaced this operation not those who carried it out.

BR549 (09/12/01; 10:08:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 61282)
CB's and CNBC's doing their thing

The BoE selling its Gold at $280/oz. Bloomberg now has Gold up $6.80 to the same price. I wonder what the NY Fed is selling its Gold for right now.

Fed injecting billions into overnight reserves. Is injecting liquidity into the system by the CB's causing inflation? If the money supply is expanding maybe. But if the financial system has stopped expanding credit at a rate less than the Fed liquidity injections, then maybe M3 is still contracting.

CNBC Talking head--- Gold is a safe haven. Gold is always worth something. Gold is a bartering mechanism. The dollar is the Gold standard. Until such time as the Euro gains the world standard we will not go into the trilateral standard-the Dollar, the Yen and the Euro. So far we have confidence in the paper economy. People interested in preserving wealth go into a PM's like Gold. Gold and the dollar showing strength today. Gold is a place of last resort. Positions in Gold stocks good idea to prevent meltdown. If there is a stampede, Gold is an investment preserve wealth at times of crisis and panic. What is positive for US economy and negative for gold? If gold does not materialize already put in a bottom. Buying Gold is good for a diversified portfolio.

See what happens when equities are removed from the picture.

BR549


PH in LA (09/12/01; 10:04:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61281)
The Obvious: WAR!


The United States of America has been attacked.

Openly. In front of the whole world. Live. In real time, the whole world watches as airplanes crash into buildings, killing our citizens. These are not isolated acts by lunatic fringe religious elements crawling out from under some rock somewhere. They are acts conceived and carried out by large, well-organized forces.

These are forces that operate somewhere on this planet. They are supported and allowed to exist in some country on earth by a sovereign government. This government, wherever it is, has declared, by their actions, that they are enemies of the United States. The United States cannot continue to allow these people to exist. They must be taken out of the game. Taken off the board. The\is earth is not large enough to contain both the United States and these people!

The Clinton government dropped the ball last time. Standing aside from their responsibilities to the American people, and merely tossing a few missiles at aspirin factories gave these present lunatics the green light to attack with impunity.

It is crystal clear now, that this time, we must hunt down and eliminate these perpetrators. Whoever they are! Wherever they live!

The US does not permit sovereign nations to invade and attack the US. Period. Never has. Never will. If this means invading Afghanistan, so be it. If it means eliminating the Taliban government, so be it. Russia demonstrated that they were unable to conquer Afghanistan. The United States cannot afford to follow in their footsteps!


Mr Gresham (9/12/01; 10:01:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 61280)
Collateral Damage
Speaking of harm to innocent bystanders from the attack (liberties, truth -- first casualty of war), can you take a W.A. Guess what financial medium will soon be "discovered" to be part of Osama bin Laden's financial network, and the Middle East opposition in general, by a dollar faction floundering for support? We may have to keep our heads down awhile... (Not intended as advice to political propagandists: hang it up guys! Quit your job before losing your soul.)

Orville Goldenbacher (9/12/01; 09:56:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61279)
andrus sommerselg
andrus sommerselg:
"It is also wrong to fall for intended conclusions and believe our sociopath handlers' finger pointing. The "Cowardly act" of such kamikaze attack from where I stand is rather respectable. I wonder how many of us are prepared to die for a vision, thought, or idea."


OG:
These people think they are going to paradise, ie, "The great whore house in the sky".

They may not be cowards, they may just be plain stupid. Their patheticly controlled lives are so miserable anyway, they have little (their own "lives") to lose anyway.

How do you deal with stupid?

Cut it's head off.

OG

andrus sommerselg (9/12/01; 09:54:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 61278)
Psychological conditioning.
Again, it is easy to ponder while looking back to the past activities leading to this event. Am I alone now realizing that we were actually being conditioned for what happened? A clue is all the war movies coming out lately. In the past decade on films we were thought that the enemy is always a silly little Arab who can be blasted away easily. In other films it was the Europeans or Russians who lost credibility. Amerika on the other hand is always right. Amerika is the brightest star and defender of global freedom. I am not against Amerika, but this is getting onesided.
Talks about global terrorism prior to the new millennium. Perceived and real threats made public, when usually these are unreported in order to maintain calm, and order. Whose benefit does all this PR serve? What is the real motive? Perhaps the past event is self-victimization, or maybe Israel's way to draw Amerika deeper. Believe it, this is the last thing Arabs would want. Walking into a pizzeria and blowing yourself up to kill a few of your colonizers is one thing. Bringing the full wrath of the possibly single most supporter of your colonizers is another. This incident will legitimize the destruction of rogue states, and will break the support for the Palestinian push for freedom. Clearly Israel benefits as usual. Amerika gets the oil, and financial default without actually defaulting. Bush gets to be the warrior of freedom and justice as imagined, dreamed up, packaged and sold by the plastic society.
Sorry to all, my writing is really getting anti-amerikan. I better stop. I do not hate you. I know you are the same flesh and blood with feelings just like a homeless Palestinian rock thrower who gets machined down in his homeland by an Israeli with Amerikan supplied weapons. I just dislike this feeding of lies and rampant manipulation. We are people above all politics, do not forget that. We should all have the chanse to live a happy and productive life. If there would be justice, this would not happen. Sadly, utopia is non-existant.
Thanks, and my apoligies.

Buena Fe (9/12/01; 09:49:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 61277)
goldfan (9/12/01; 08:18:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 61269)
http://www.nymex.com/
The reported demise of COMEX is untrue. Follow link above.
___________________________
I am compelled to add my (and my families) sorrow and grief for the innocent lives that have been lost and especially for those left behind who lost loved ones! Words cannot impart enough empathy, I wish I could do more!!!!!!!!!

I am grateful for this forum as a place to connect with some truth and sanity (the rest of the media being so blind, shallow and contrived). Although the discussions have gotten a little heated it is understandable in the context of the underlying events. None of us have a corner on the whole truth, but together we may be able to piece together a mosaic of understanding that as a whole will continue to protect and prosper our families and spere of influence.

Questions,
1 Why did the terrorsts NOT hit the White house or Congress?
2 Why did they target the WTC and the Pentagon.

Suppositions,
1 There is no REAL power with the politicians anymore.
2 America is in love with MONEY (paper) which can and has been used to its advantage against many innocent people the world over, and the military has been used to support this activity.

There is a prophet in the midst of NY, Pastor David Wilkerson who has spoken to America's current condition and the future......... it will be very disturbing to those who have not considered much of the fiat money discussions here, but enlightening to most.

http://www.tscpulpitseries.org/

May you porsper


Sierra Madre (9/12/01; 09:47:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 61276)
"CUI BONO" - WHO BENEFITS?
http://www.rense.com

In the investigation of a crime, a principle invoked is always "Cui Bono?" - "Who benefits as a consequence?" for determining possible suspects.

The article by Friedman at www.rense.com raises questions:

"The Big Winner Today, Intended
Or Not, Is The State Of Israel
The Israeli Dimension

By George Friedman,
Founder And Chairman of STRATFOR
The Global intelligence Company
9-11-1

The greatest question right now is this: Which Islamic state was involved
in the attack? We suspect that there was such involvement. The
sophistication required means of communication and transport available
only to states. Afghanistan does not have the international facilities
needed. We assume that Sudanese and Iraqi diplomatic communications
and transport are both too closely monitored to be useful. If that is true,
what other nation provided support facilities for this operation?
Answering that question speaks to the future of the region."

Please note the significant question:

"What other nation provided support facilities for this operation?"

An operation that involved foiling the U.S. intelligence community completely? And what nation has that unique capability?

I urge all to read the related article.

Sierra

andrus sommerselg (9/12/01; 09:30:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61275)
Thoughts on the Pentagon story.
The Pentagon is a building within a building. The outside bulletproof glass also surved the purpose to sound and vibration proof the inside as to make the outside recording of inside activities more difficult. Personally I always had the impression that the Pentagon was heavily deffended. As a no fly zone, it must have had its radar, satellite uplink to own military satellite and automatized SAM missile grid to protect from enemy aircrafts.
Instill fear in the public and get all the finances for defense you want. You may also remove in the name of fighting international terrorism whatever paper freedoms were left. Too bad so many had to die to push this agenda.

andrus sommerselg (9/12/01; 09:21:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 61274)
Rationality and looking beyond the obvious.
Greetings to all; My comment will offend many, therefore I apologize in advance. Keep in mind that my position is stateless. I take no sides.
The first thing that comes to my mind after this supposedly Arab terrorist attack is how convenient it is for the covering up of the illness of Amerikan finances. The attack was carried out with such a great precision and timing that a few fanatic rag-heads would never be capable to accomplish. The one hijacking of a passanger jet I would believe, but not 5 simultaniously. I doubt the original pilots flew those planes into the buildings. The hijackers themselves must have been trained for commercial aviation. Not an easy task done on your desktop simulator. This was the work of a much bigger group, with serious finances, logistics, training capability and a real, but hidden motiv to draw Amerika deeper into a conflict. (The last thing the Arab countries want is to anger Amerika. Would this be the way to make Amerika gone from the middle east? Arabs might be fanatic, but not this crazy.) After the crash the buildings collapsed into themselves too perfectly as if demolished by a pro with multiple strategically positioned charges. Companies, files, info, data, all gone. Yes, there was back up, which is now easily manipulated. Also great excuse for shutting down the falling markets.
Looking back to the past months, years, add two and two together and the conclusion is clear as to who really benefited from this. The answer is in the markets, and its manipulations the great minds uncover daily on this board. I also see Israel, Sharon, the Mossad, and the disintegrated UN meeting on human rights as the joker in the pack.
Yes, people died, I know, but death is one of life's great misfortunes. Therefore it is wrong to allow fear to take control of our minds and hearts. It is also wrong to fall for intended conclusions and believe our sociopath handlers' finger pointing. The "Cowardly act" of such kamikaze attack from where I stand is rather respectable. I wonder how many of us are prepared to die for a vision, thought, or idea. It is easy to talk about patriotism, but less easy to live by it. Never underestimate an enemy, real or imagined. Though this time, it might be that the enemy is from within.
Thanks and sorry again if my thoughts are unconventional, off topic, or makes little sense at all.

Carl H (9/12/01; 09:09:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 61273)
Anyone else think the Pentagon is lying?
The reporting about the Pentagon struck me as odd. Consider:

First they reported the crash was "outside the Pentagon".
By evening a reporter said that most of the plane was inside the building out of sight.

Next, they claim that the damage was not that bad because of "blast proof windows". I'm no expert, but I seriously doubt that blast proof windows can stop a couple hundred tons of aircraft at around 300MPH.

Next, they claimed that portion of the building was being renovated and was largely empty. Does that apply to the inner parts of the building also?

In the evening, they were announcing 800 dead. Immediately after that, they were asking all personel assigned to the Pentagon that day to call in to some numbers so they could get a head count. This makes me question where the 800 dead number came from.

The Pentagon is three concentric Pentagons. To my knowledge, no arial shots of the building have been shown, so we have no idea what the inner Pentagons look like.

I believe that the reporting on this is part of the our governments strategy to deal with terrorism -- minimize the reported effect. I also believe that 800 was a number chosen simply because it is the smallest believable number. The truth will probably never be told, and is probably considerably higher.


Interstate (9/12/01; 08:42:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 61272)
@The Invisible Hand msg #61249
I just read this message and then at the end you expressed your feelig that it may sound unAmerican or unpatriotic. So, I scrolled up and read it again. And my friend, I think it is the MOST patriotic message that I have read on this topic on any site. I only wish that everyone at The Capitol could read it. Thank you for being truthful and expressing ways in which our great country can become even greater.


USAGOLD (9/12/01; 08:32:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 61271)
Today's Report: Vulnerability
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html
9/12/01

In Brief: Gold ran up over $20 yesterday in
the aftermath of yesterday's horrific events,
and then gave up about half that gain in the
wake of the Bank of England's gold auction
earlier this morning. The auction was 4.3
times oversubscribed which, when stated
another way, translates to the market being
willing and able to absorb the next three
auctions as well as this one at $10 over where
the market was trading just a couple of days
of ago.

What this says to me is that when physical
gold is available in size price is not an
object. When the underlying strength of the
physical market for gold sinks in, along with
the realization that the paper markets are
being used to hold the physical price down,
the public worldwide will become even a bigger
buyer of the yellow metal than it already is.
Obviously, the yellow is being held down for a
reason and we continue to believe that that
reason is twofold: (1) as a palliative to the
various currencies -- the dollar included; (2)
as a necessity for the unwinding gold carry
trade which owes thousands of tonnes of gold
to various lenders. One group -- the bullion
banks -- has institutionalized the paper
restriction on the price while the other,
government and the central banks, stands by
and watches without objection for its own
reasons.

What we learned yesterday -- all of us -- is
just how vulnerable we all are to random and
unpredictable events . Beyond the physical
reality of the collapsed World Trade Center,
we have the subtler reality of systemic
vulnerability in the world financial and
economic order symbolized by the devastating
event. Americans are no more immune to the
vagaries of financial stress than we are
terrorist invasion. That is not a pleasant
reality to contemplate on top of everything
that happened yesterday, but for some of us,
it is a reality nevetheless -- a reality that
must be contemplated and deal with. Washington
Post columnist Paul J. Samuelson captured the
essence of what's on many people's minds this
morning: "What was destroyed yesterday was not
just the World Trade Center and part of the
Pentagon but American's serenity and sense of
security. . .It will no longer be possible to
maintain the illusion of invulnerability, and
the change in attitudes and assumptions will
have profound effects -- just what, no one can
yet say. . .[America] has tragically lost much
of the innocence and illusion of the past
decade."

Note: The latest News & Views -- the first
edition of our new 32-page quarterly -- is now
hitting mail boxes in the United States and
also available to our international clientele
by pdf-download below. Ironically, it features
a discussion on systemic risk titled "Why
Gold, Why Now." Some of you are familiar with
this article (for which we have had a large of
number of reprint requests), but if you
aren't, I think you will agree that it
addresses current client concerns in very
direct and timely manner. American prospective
clients can receive a hard-copy by going to
the link above.

Find out the who, what, when , where, why and
how of gold ownership.

Additional Note: We will be taking gold orders
today on a first-come first-served basis.
Yesterday, we were forced to work from
allotments that went to buyers almost as
quickly as we secured them. We expect similar
activity today and request that, if you have
an interest in adding to your gold positions,
that you get on our call back list as soon as
possible. Please forgive us if you get a busy
signal and keep trying if you do, or leave a
message and someone will get back to you as
soon as possible. Though the U.S. markets are
closed there is a strong chance we will be
able to make a market. Please call with your
established interest.

Galearis (9/12/01; 08:22:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 61270)
911 Day and (over)reactions
As deplorable as yesterday's events were to rational people everywhere, as so many have stated recently, the efforts now should be focused on the survivors and to create policies of prevention against a repeat of these atrocities.

I hope that the president is very careful about his definition of "governments harboring terrorists" in terms of a US response. Jordan, for example, has a high proportion of its population consisting of Palestinians that are hostile to the US. Lebannon is another example. It may be difficult to establish a link of official sympathy of these governments with terrorist groups that happen to be residing in these countries - many of which are there perhaps with little affection from their "host" country.

The problem as I see it is the difficulties of a government like the US and its allies reacting justly and responsibly in coordinating a rational military response to terrorist groups that are effectively little different from nihilist gangs.

Now these gangs can create havoc on a scale that is on a scale that used to require the resources of governments.

These coordinated acts of terrorism were, simply stated, a amazing disaster for the United States. The death toll of an hour and some minutes may well approach the total US fatalities of the Vietnam War. The efficiency of this act was also amazing. More bombs were dropped by the US in Vietnam than in all of WW2. The perpetrators of 911 Day suffered only a handful of casualties. We have indeed entered a new era.

Mr. Bush was quite correct in saying that this was an "attack on freedom". I fear that this statement is also true and will be part of the damage that will also be revealed in the future.

sad regards,

G.

goldfan (9/12/01; 08:18:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 61269)
comex sorts records
people have been saying that the wtc disaster has destroyed not only the comex but its gold sales records. Is there a possibility that the "shorts" are of the hook to any great extent because the records of what they owe have been destroyed? I have heard that most large organization these days have backup records stored offsite in earthquake proof fireproof storage.

thanks for any ideas on this

Goldfan

Mr Gresham (9/12/01; 08:12:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 61268)
Satyagraha
Invisible Hand -- Thank you.

Gerd_be -- Thank you.

Gandhi said, roughly: "An eye for an eye, and we are all left blind." He chose nonviolent resistance to force the British Empire out of India. He knew, logically, there would be casualties, by either path to freedom. He calculated, correctly I believe, that they would be fewer and have a greater chance of success, by a nonviolent response to evils suffered.

The United States experienced a largely-peaceful Civil Rights movement in the 1960s, because Martin Luther King, Jr. studied Gandhi as a young minister in training.

Can the U.S. take the high road, rather than the low? Or is this the Roman Empire in late decline, incapable of moral discernment, knowing only violent bluster? Answer for yourself, which nation you want to be part of.

Knallgold (9/12/01; 08:08:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 61267)
FOA
where are you?

gerd_be (9/12/01; 07:25:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 61266)
Channeling
http://www.nibiruancouncil.com/html/usattacksperspective.html
Sorry, try this link.

Trurl (9/12/01; 07:16:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 61265)
Physical prices
Like everyone else, I'm still numb over the loss of life, yet I do not apologize for considering the longer term implications, which are mostly financial.

Just a thought, we have had reports here of price gouging on existing physical stocks of gasoline.

How will the media describe the situation if the physical POG seperates from the paper POG?

If dealers with physical stock are reluctent to sell at the current 'listed gold price', would this be wrong? What would you do? Same idea as the gas merchants -- if you are unsure of the price and availability of replacement stock?

My guess of course is that we'll hear nothing of this. Not many people outside of this board have an awareness of the implications of this happening.

gerd_be (9/12/01; 07:16:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61264)
Channeling
9D Council Perspective on US World Trade Center and Pentagon Attacks
http://www.nibiruancouncil.com/html/usattacksperspective.html

Christian (9/12/01; 06:48:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 61263)
(No Subject)
There is a need to publish an official list of the "Clinton Dead" of the former president William Jefferson Rockefeller. Daddy Bush controlled Clinton and is a full partner in the crimes. Daddy Bush made a bundle looting banks, s+l's, SBA, HUD and the Arkansas Development Finance Authority. There is a need to report the funneling of billins of $'s in illegal contributions for the Clinton and Bush campaigns from big corporate big wigs who have a large interest in China and Russia. There is a need to find out how Rubin- Greenspan and Daddy Bush to move so much hot money chasing a cluster of Asian countries stock market to built a malinvestment dot.com boom and then transfer those funds into hedge funds at the height of the boom and short this very malinvestment. There is a need to list all Congressmen, House of Representatives who have an investment in hedge funds and how much money they made from these investments. Let it be known that these hedge funds are funded by shorting gold and by Rubin, Daddy Bush + Greenspan had control over. This idea of us solving a problem by bombing Afganistan or Iraq is stupid when we have people inside this country financing these deeds and profit from it. List those who profit from it. Let us ask Greenspan to put constitutional money into circulation just like Russia is. Why should Daddy Bush, Greenspan, Rubin have 1000's of tons of our gold in their name at BIS. Let us tell our Congress and the House of Representatives that in our Constitution, real money is "specie" Gold and Silver. And we need to force the Supreme Court to rule it so. If these people on the Supreme Court hold stock certificates to be more important than honest money, then it is time to get them out.

Black Blade (9/12/01; 06:21:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 61262)
Investment Banks Search for N.Y. Staff
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010912/business_attack_tradecenter_banks_dc_2.html

Snippit:

NEW YORK (Reuters) - The world's leading investment banks and brokerages said early on Wednesday they were still trying to account for their New York-based employees after Tuesday's attack on the World Trade Center.

Black Blade: If the "Bank Holiday" ends we could see many brokerages hard pressed to execute sell orders.


BTW, I hear that many oil companies have suspended tanker traffic in the ME out of concern. This could be Very Significant.

Gotta go!

Black Blade (9/12/01; 06:16:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 61261)
Europe in the Red
http://quote.yahoo.com/m2?u

Euro markets are down again today, except in Britain. They seem to have just brushed it off. Hmmm...

Black Blade (9/12/01; 06:13:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 61260)
Wall Street counts the cost
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/newsid_1539000/1539628.stm

Snippit:

Morgan Stanley is still trying to account for all its staff Wall Street firms have started taking stock of their losses after the death and destruction in New York's financial district on Tuesday. There were 435 companies based in the twin towers, employing about 40,000 people. These firms are now attempting to count the cost of the disaster. Corporate websites advise staff not to come to work to company offices at other locations, after the southern end of Manhattan Island was sealed to all but emergency vehicles.

Many major Wall Street financial institutions were based in the five buildings that made up the World Trade Centre. The New York Board of Trade, which is located at Four World Trade Center adjacent to the collapsed towers, has suspended trade and there has been no information about the condition of its trading floors. Other firms in the immediate vicinity include Goldman Sachs, Merrill Lynch, JP Morgan, Lehman Brothers and Oppenheimer Funds.


Black Blade: If the "Bank Holiday" ends, we could see bank shares collapse. There is already some talk by investors to bail on insurance and reinsurance shares. Institutional financial shares are likely to be irreparably harmed. Many corporate financial records could also be lost. If the US markets open, it could be very "Grim."


uponroof (9/12/01; 06:07:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 61259)
The American Financial Institution Under Attack
The human loss was not primary to these insane cowards. If so the planes would've targeted a few football stadiums on Sunday. This is very bad for Wall St, the dollar, the credibility of our economy and property values in major cities.

The airlines will be going out of business or charging much more for increase security. Obviously, breaching the existing 'security' was not difficult. Imagine what airport boarding lines are going to look like very soon. The ramifications of this go on and on. Living in America will never be the same. Regardless of what is going on now in broad daylight, gold will provide the safety it always had.

Speaking of broad daylight.....

Just reported on CNBC: "The FED has asked the BoE and other Central Banks to keep dollar transactions to a minimum. Using 'moral suasion' to keep from creating undue volatility in the market.

Many Central Banks have injected cash into their markets last night. The ECB added 69 billion euros last night for a 'one day action'. Normally they might add 81 billion euros for a two week period. The BoJ added 2 trillion yen to their banking system. Typically they like to keep 'excess funds' at 6 trillion daily but they've added another 2 trillion on top of that. The Bank of Austrailia has also added unspecified 'reserves'.

BoE is open today and monitoring actions closely. The chance for G7 intervention to support the dollar is in place if need be. Perhaps we will see a cordinated round of interest rate reductions. The ECB was expected to make an interest rate decision tommorrow. The BoE if not making comments today will make comments tommorrow...."

Well competitive currency devaluation is just around the corner.
**********************************************************

In 79, before the Gulf War Crisis, Consumer Confidence was already weak and losing power. Iraq's invasion of Kuwait caused a panic and became the fatal blow to this major economic indicator. After the invasion consumers hunkered down and spending stopped, bringing on an economic collapse. Today we have the same conditions in place. An already falling Consumer Confidence indicator and now this crisis. Radically rising gas prices could start the panic that is the 2001 fatal blow to Consumer Confidence. How much more bad news can this economy take?
********************************************************

Posted by a friend at another board:

"I have a friend that worked on the 32nd floor of WTC2 (south) and only just now learned he made it out okay.

All of his 7 people also made it out, but he thinks quite a few could not have made it out. He says the building issued messages on the loudspeakers saying to evacuate about 15 minutes before the second plane hit, but about 10 minutes later said that the building was not in danger. Some returned to their offices, but most had left the building before the plane hit. He had sent his people home and decided not to go back up.

He was standing outside about 3 blocks away looking at WTC1 when the plane slammed into the building.

I cannot convey to you what his voice sounded like on the phone. A man has lost all of his business records, equipment, and some valuable inventory. Worse, he lost good friends and yet I could hear that he feels like he and his employees were touched by God and saved. Until that moment, my eyes were dry.

He said this is his salvation day.

What can I say that would add to that?"
***********************************************************

That was not a Bruce Willis movie we watched yesterday. Real people were killed in the most surreal and horrific catastrophe of our time.

Life in America will never be the same....Those that look out onto the 'million dollar manhatten skyline view' will see it, and feel it in their hearts, in a much different way forever more.


Black Blade (9/12/01; 05:58:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 61258)
Unbelievable!

I just heard a Bill Ford, former Atlanta FED governor on CNBC blast the media for continued coverage of the Terrorist activity for scaring away shoppers. Gimme a break!

site steward (9/12/01; 05:50:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 61257)
BOE News Release: HM Government Gold Auction Result: 12 September 2001
http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/pressreleases/2001/093.htm
The Bank of England announces that the gold on offer (approximately 20 tonnes or 643,200 ounces) has been allotted in full at a price of $280.00 per ounce. Details of the result are as follows:

Amount of gold on offer (approx.) 643,200 oz
Amount applied for 2,755,200 oz
Times covered 4.3 times
Amount allotted to bidders 644,400 oz
Allotment price $280.00
Scaling factor at allotment price 61.3818%

All accepted bids which were made at prices above the allotment price have been allotted in full at the allotment price. Valid bids made at the allotment price have been allotted an amount of gold equal to the amount bid for multiplied by the above scaling factor and rounded up to the nearest 400 ounces.

By close of business in London today, applicants whose bids have been successful in whole or in part will be notified by the Bank of England of the exact weight of the gold bars allotted to them and the amount payable in respect of their purchase. Payment must be made in US dollars to the Bank of England's account at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, no later than 12 noon New York time on 14 September 2001.

Note for Editors
On 7 March 2001, H M Treasury, is to sell approximately 120 tonnes of gold in a programme of six auctions of around 20 tonnes each in the financial year 2001/02 on the terms and conditions set out in an Information Memorandum that was published on 7 March 2001. This is the third auction in the programme of six. The next auction will be held on Tuesday 27 November 2001. It is intended that the remaining auctions will take place on dates to be announced in January and March 2002.

site steward (9/12/01; 05:47:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 61256)
CBs doing their thing...
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&middle=ad_frame2_all&s=AO587jRYDRG9sbGFy
Excerpt from Bloomberg:

------``Central banks are trying to prevent systemic failures -- like trades failing to settle -- by providing huge amounts of liquidity,'' which may help calm investors, said Nigel Marsh, who helps manage 2 billion pounds ($2.9 billion) at Pavilion Asset Management in Brighton.

The European Central Bank lent about $63 billion to banks in an unscheduled tender, while the Bank of Japan said it handed out almost $17 billion. The Federal Reserve said yesterday it was open to provide liquidity to the banking system following the attacks. All U.S. financial markets were closed yesterday. The New York Stock Exchange and the Nasdaq Stock Market will be closed for a second day today.

``The central banks are trying to calm the whole situation down,'' said Michael Metcalfe, a currency strategist at Credit Agricole Indosuez.---------

Some of you may protest, but like it or not, this is what central banks do. I suggest you treat this artificially-supported period of relative calm as an opportunity to establish your preferred positions in gold. The evolutionary monetary scenario many of us have endeavored to describe/explain over recent years is still in process. In most likelihood, the many private and official market reactions globally in consequence of the tragic events in New York will only serve to HASTEN the arrival of the inevitable upward shift in the gold valuation paradigm.

R.

Belgian (9/12/01; 05:10:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 61255)
All
An explicit "demand" by the US * NOT TO TRADE AGAINST THE DOLLAR * ! Voila.
The ECB responded, positively and immediately.
No more long and boring tirades about "total manipulation"
necessary.
There is an explosive amount of FEAR underneath the Alladin flying carpet.
The demand also included not to trade any US-stock.
London has been balancing the whole financial structure this morning. This perfect management is accident-proof and therefore it will be eroded by time. The worst case scenario.

BTW : One particular analyst, I still estimate, got it for the first time ever : Permanent Currency Depreciation !

The news about the rescue operations and the victims is completely isolated and controlled. As long as the financial world doesn't collapse....

I'm feeling sad about this dishonest/unjust/cruel world.

Canuck (9/12/01; 04:45:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61254)
@ Black Blade, All
"BTW, the market sites show Gold down but I hear on the Market media that Gold is up about $21.00/oz. Who knows. It doesn't matter as I am sure that the metal is about to disassociate from the paper market anytime. If it doesn't then we have definite proof of manipulative forces at work."

Good point B.B.

Suppose one was in a 'coma' for the last 24 hours and then was told that gold was at $271 yesterday and after yesterdays undescribable events settled to $274.

What would be the obvious response?


Zenidea (9/12/01; 04:32:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61253)
Its oil.
Dispite what the media is uttering and thats a foregone conclusion, (Emotion). so many people are saying this is senceless; well with emotion it is .
One ,must accept that there are radical forces out there
and America has not made many friends internationaly through
its policy of cornering markets even with its allies and squeezing the jugulars of other friendly countries.
Roumours are especially in the christian churches here interpreted in the ( book of revelations)that the antichrist will come from her so many aussies are not sure what to believe. May sence prevail.






Knallgold (9/12/01; 04:18:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 61252)
POG action
...proves these auctions are rigged and the price is set BEFORE the auction.Ridiculous.

BR549 (9/12/01; 03:43:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 61251)
The U.S. is not alone

There are 430 companies from 46 different countries imbedded in those 110 story tombs.


BR549 (9/12/01; 03:38:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 61250)
911

Ironic date for one of the worst days in our long history.

Can we declare war if we do not know who did it? Sure we can. Bush said it all last night. "We will make no distinction between the terrorists who committed these acts and the countries that protect them." So the U.S. will declare war against terrorism. There is a historical precedent. One of our earliest Presidents declared war against the Barbary Pirates. We will hunt you down and you will wish you could call 911.

Ever hear of a gun store being robbed? My favorite sign is in Mike's Gun Shop in Pensacola. "We don't call 911 around here".

We don't either.

BR549


The Invisible Hand (9/12/01; 03:04:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 61249)
Tony Blair, S C R E W You!
Now the yellow dog has every reason to go up and it is being tamed in advance of Tony's give away.


When Will We Learn?

by Harry Browne

The terrorist attacks against America comprise a
horrible tragedy. But they shouldn't be a
surprise.

It is well known that in war, the first casualty
is truth -- that during any war truth is forsaken
for propaganda. But sanity was a prior casualty:
it was the loss of sanity that led to war in the
first place.

Our foreign policy has been insane for decades. It
was only a matter of time until Americans would
have to suffer personally for it. It is a terrible
tragedy of life that the innocent so often have to
suffer for the sins of the guilty.

When we will learn that we can't allow our
politicians to bully the world without someone
bullying back eventually?

President Bush has authorized continued bombing of
innocent people in Iraq. President Clinton bombed
innocent people in the Sudan, Afghanistan, Iraq,
and Serbia. President Bush Senior invaded Iraq and
Panama. President Reagan bombed innocent people in
Libya and invaded Grenada. And on and on it goes.

Did we think the people who lost their families
and friends and property in all that destruction
would love America for what happened?

When will we learn that violence always begets
violence?

Teaching Lessons

Supposedly, Reagan bombed Libya to teach Muammar
al-Qaddafi a lesson about terrorism. But shortly
thereafter a TWA plane was destroyed over
Scotland, and our government is convinced it was
Libyans who did it.

When will we learn that "teaching someone a
lesson" never teaches anything but resentment --
that it only inspires the recipient to greater
acts of defiance.

How many times on Tuesday did we hear someone
describe the terrorist attacks as "cowardly acts"?
But as misguided and despicable as they were, they
were anything but cowardly. The people who
committed them knowingly gave their lives for
whatever stupid beliefs they held.

But what about the American Presidents who order
bombings of innocent people -- while the
Presidents remain completely insulated from any
danger? What would you call their acts?

When will we learn that forsaking truth and reason
in the heat of battle almost always assures that
we will lose the battle?

Losing our Last Freedoms

And now, as sure as night follows day, we will be
told we must give up more of our freedoms to
avenge what never should have happened in the
first place.

When will we learn that it makes no sense to give
up our freedoms in the name of freedom?

What to Do

What _should_ be done?

First of all, stop the hysteria. Stand back and
ask how this could have happened. Ask how a
prosperous country isolated by two oceans could
have so embroiled itself in other people's
business that someone would want to do us harm.
Even sitting in the middle of Europe, Switzerland
isn't beset by terrorist attacks, because the
Swiss mind their own business.

Second, resolve that we won't let our leaders use
this occasion to commit their own terrorist acts
upon more innocent people, foreign and domestic,
that will inspire more terrorist attacks in the
future.

Third, find a way, with _enforceable_
constitutional limits, to prevent our leaders from
ever again provoking this kind of anger against
America.

Patriotism?

There are those who will say this article is
unpatriotic and un-American -- that this is not a
time to question our country or our leaders.

When will we learn that without freedom and
sanity, there is no reason to be patriotic?

---



Belgian (9/12/01; 01:22:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 61248)
Observations
1/ One immediate concern was : don't let the financial markets been rocked (full-liquidity)! As significant as can be !

2/ Gold gave full evidence that it still exists.

3/ The dollar showed, in a glimpse, intrinsic weakness.

4/ POO behavior evidenced an already outlined price-plan, whatever supply/demand.

This tragedy (imponderabile) was unveiling, in a glimpse, where oil/$/gold are heading and confirming the increasing vulnarability of the artificial prosperity.

Some very specific comments on BBC, are strongly suggesting, that "keeping heads cool", will be very,very difficult. It was a very sad day in all aspects !

megatron (9/12/01; 00:55:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 61247)
Sorry to all my American friends
This was one of the saddest days in my life, but strangely not surprising, in retrospect, after recalling from The Great Reckoning a couple of times. To see those beautiful buildings destroyed was indescribable. Thousands of hours of Hollywood stereotypes of Arab's as terrorists can only have exacerbated this lunacy. This really could pull the wheels off, I don't know. There are now way too many variables in play. Got to go it's midnite. Hope all my American compatriots have a safe trip home from their temporary exile here in Vancouver. May Individualism bless America.

Black Blade (9/12/01; 00:43:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 61246)
Europe gold opens calmer in wake of U.S. attacks
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010912/l12507976_1.html

Snippit:

* GOLD - Opens in Europe at $283.00/287.00 a troy ounce, still volatile but easing from
Tuesday's European close of $289.80/290.30. Calmer after chaotic surge in wake of attacks in United States, trading reported as nervous and illiquid. Traders reluctant to forecast strike price for Bank of England auction.

Black Blade: Guess we can't let Capt. Tony and the BOE get too good a price at the auction, …. er giveaway. Maybe afterwards.


Black Blade (9/12/01; 00:39:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61245)
Fate of Morgan Stanley Workers Unknown
http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010912/business_attack_morganstanley_dc_1.html

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co. (NYSE:MWD), which had been the World Trade Center's largest tenant, said it had ``limited information'' as to the fate of its employees there after the devastating attack by two hijacked commercial airplanes.

Black Blade: Largest tenant? FOX has been running a ticker of companies headquartered in the WTC. "Interesting Times."


Black Blade (9/12/01; 00:27:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 61244)
Forget Kitco

Just heard Gold up $17.50 in Asia.



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