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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 10/1/2001
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

MarkeTalk (10/1/01; 23:42:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 62782)
Musings on predicted upcoming terrorist attacks
http://www.psispymaster.com
This is the correct link to Ed Dames' website.

MarkeTalk (10/1/01; 23:39:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 62781)
Musings on predicted upcoming terrorists attacks
http://psispymaster.com
Did anyone catch last Thursday night's late night talk radio program with Art Bell (www.artbell.com)? Art's guest was former Major Ed Dames who was a CIA-trained military spy engaged in psychic warfare during the 1980s up until the collapse of the old Soviet Union. He was one of the original team members of "technical remote viewing" as the program was called. The CIA denied the existence of said program and claims today that it no longer exists--which is similar to their assertions about the program for training brainwashed assasins known in the 1970s as MK Ultra. Typical CIA.

Anyway, Ed Dames is now in the private sector and provides his services where needed. On the program he claimed he knew with 100% accuracy that there were four Arab terrorists who were driving a large truck loaded with high explosives down Pacific Coast Highway 1 towards Los Angeles. Their intended target: Diable Canyon Nuclear Power Plant. He gave the particulars on his website with details and all. The website was shut down by someone--most probably the government--within short order. So he established another website (link above) and just gave the intended target's name. It sounded as if the plan was to either park the truck near the power plant and then detonate it or else ram the building thereby causing detonation. Essentially, they were trying to re-create another Chernobyl disaster. Not a pleasant picture if the attack had succeeded.

Question: Did anyone read any news release or hear anything about this story? Were these terrorists interdicted? I can understand why law enforcement would be mum on this subject, lest news of such an event create total panic. Could you imagine the pandemonium if these terrorists had been successful? Stocks would crash (probably towards my target of Dow Jones 5000) and gold would skyrocket. In hindsight, we would consider $400 gold as cheap. In light of these types of news stories, I appeal once again to all my present clients and prospective clients to review their portfolios. If you need to add more gold or if you need to begin a program of accumulation, call me as soon as possible. Bullion prices have already risen $20/oz. since September 11th and coin premiums above spot (for both modern and pre-1933 coinage) continue to rise as well. All we need is one more terrorist event and gold will fly.

GC

uponroof (10/1/01; 23:09:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 62780)
Unholy Alliances
In this society that will not tolerate morals or absolutes we are reduced to 'realative thinking' creating endless debates and enormous confusion. We are not the country we once were to be sure.

At a time when the world awaits our wrath we show our diplomacy through much too much of this 'relative thinking'. We seek the approval of those akin to the murderers through threats of 'collateral damage'. Is their arm twisted approval required to garner global justification? How much weight can be given to this diplomatic coercion?

Colin Powell's actions are surprising to say the least. Forming coalitions with those who do not believe in the core values of our country, who hold in contempt our Judeo-Christian faith, is simply an 'unholy alliance'.

The UN is full of terrorists. They walk the halls and eat lunch with Americans daily in the city they seek to destroy. Coalitions to isolate the 'bad guys' are nothing more than costly political games at a time when resolve is needed.

It was the coalitions, in the Gulf War, that stopped us from finishing the job and killing Sadaam and his network. An unholy alliance with the Arab nations that in fact allowed the terrorist network to live, grow, and kill 5000+ Americans on 911.

The bible is full of references of Israel's reluctance to follow God's instructions in killing the ENTIRE population of a conquered nation. Israel suffered greatly each time. Why was God insisting on total annialation? Was He cruel? Unjust?

Now we seek to continue this practice of unholy alliances.
Bush is seeking to be a politician instead of a warrior. It is the warrior who ends wars, and the politician who starts wars.

tedw (10/1/01; 22:56:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 62779)
Struck by terrorists
http://www.usagold.com
No kidding.

My laptop computer failed to boot up after I tried to start it with a disk in the a: drive. I had to turn it off and it wouldnt boot up again.

I took it to my computer guy, and he said Ive lost all my data due to a Virus. He says a lot of these viruses are originating in the Middle East and Asia.






Galearis (10/1/01; 22:02:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 62778)
The WAR to come on Afganistan
Is very likely to be a non-event. If the people behind the US military have half a brain - and there are some really fine minds there - they will have noted all the signs that even the threat of US strikes is causing internal collapse of the Taliban both politically and militarily (what military?).

For those who like the bright lights of explosions, a watch on Iraq is surely going to please much better - for example, when the occasional Iraqi missile site paints a US/allied jet and gets itself pasted for the afront. The US and allies surely doesn't have to do anything physically to punish the Taliban. When that society collapses due to internal strife/panic or local opposition, the war on Afganistan at least will be over. I really feel for the people there for as usual, they will suffer most.

But a Taliban collapse won't necessarily net them Bin Ladin.

But a hot(ter) war COULD tip over the US economy, an economy that presently would not tolerate more strains of uncertainty.

So a lot of the action, so to speak, and as George Bush has oft-stated, will be small scale and unreported. More fun to watch them cap the gold chart.

Just a though and a half...

G.

R Powell (10/1/01; 20:31:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 62777)
Goldquest
Thanks for the silver info link!
Rich

goldquest (10/1/01; 19:55:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 62776)
Reduced silver stockpiles could boost price
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/011001/n01257341_1.html
Also, Brown of Hecla, states that when the price of gold goes up, central banks sell. When it goes down, mines hedge.


slingshot (10/1/01; 19:08:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 62775)
Sector
Oh, I've been working on the railroad,
All the live long day.
Kitty Hawk joins three other aircraft carriers already on station.
The President hears them.
Slingshot

sector (10/1/01; 18:45:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 62774)
@uponroof About Bush and the Vengeance Thing
The President has not endeared himself to those who expected him to do what he said during the campaign. I wonder if his definition of "War" matches everyone's expectations?

If by "War" he means a Clintonesque cave stomp complete with video of IR guided missiles flying in the front doors, then I believe the general public reaction will not be pleasant for him.

This is not a "War" to be executed by proxies with American "Advisors". This is much different. In no other military exercise since Pearl Harbor have US citizens been slaughtered in their offices...none in comparably numbers. To everyone on the planet this is our battle. Others have been invited to assist but this is America's fight with the Taliban as the first radical Islamic "State to be ended".

Symbolism is important to Islam. It is why, for centuries, Muslims smashed the cathedrals in Seville, Spain as they repeatedly invaded Europe via the Straights of Gibraltar. The architecture of Seville stands as proof. Each street a kaleidoscopic mixture of mosaic mosques and soaring Christian spires. There was no melting of cultures there and never will be here.

Anything less than a full scale erasure of the Taliban, hill by hill hole by hole should be regarded as a betrayal. Tactics to "smoke them out" must, at any cost or extreme, be effective and advertised. The Islamic World will judge us by the ferocity of our response. They must, in my view, receive the US military response with shock. In the end they should see themselves when they see the fate of Bin Laden's sanctuary.

The innocent dead of New York cry out for vengeance...Does the President hear them?

If he waffles the market will dive.

auspec (10/1/01; 17:46:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 62773)
@ Belgian
From the messenger-boy
I found this in Cyberspace addressed to you, Sir:

"Auspec, months ago at USAG, Sir Belgian and I both wondered why the Gold mutual funds,with "billions" of dollars worth of Gold share ownership didn't include physical Gold in their holdings."
"I compiled a long list of listed mutual fund addresses & telephone numbers and posted it at USAG, urging readers to write or call these companies, and suggest they(mutual funds) invest in physical Gold.I personally wrote and recieved a very cordial response but quote:"We would have to have a by-laws change.""

"Well, it has finally happened and it is a recent event because it is not noted in the most recent annual report, this is from the link below:
(snip)
"The fund normally invests at least
65% of assets in securities of companies
involved in gold operations. It may also invest
in companies involved with silver and other
precious metals. The fund invests worldwide,
though it generally favors South African and
other foreign markets. ***Up to 10% of assets
may be invested in gold or gold bullion***;(unsnip)"

"Auspec,please relay this to Sir Belgian if you think it would be important to him, Thanks in Advance!"

*** added by beesting for emphisis. END




CoBra(too) (10/1/01; 16:25:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 62772)
@ CM - Where's the Silver Lining? A Good Question!
The real remaining question, my friend. I can't see a silver lining as long as the politics of the industrialized world remains in neo-eco-colonizational extort towards the rest of the world.
As it may well be that I'm in a very black or bleak mood lately - opposite to my own monetary fate and that may be the golden silver lining for us bugs - I feel there's much more at stake than the subjective well being of few, even of the "righteous", as it may become a totally destructive time for humanity in a ever shrinking world.
... And still we're using similar axioms akin to medieval "holy" crusades or better wars to ratify to our own kin the necessity to purge the globe from sin. ... OK, you'll say I debate the Taliban way and I say, never ever, though 3/4 of this world - left out in the globalized cold - may just feel this way. - ... and what would detain you to hate your oppressors, living free and in luxury, while you starve in repaying colonial usury?

As every coin has its two sides - gold coins too - cb2

PS: Sorry for ranting - feeling real low tonite...

uponroof (10/1/01; 15:57:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 62771)
Swiss sales
http://news.ino.com/intraday/?storyid=DJN617974802
The Swiss helping to provide POG control at 290.

They are standing in the gap with the cartel's hope another source will appear before their supply runs out. Recall Greenspans plea the week of the terrorist attacks and how the Swiss have provided physical since then.

The quote: "Last week, the SNB said it planned to sell a tranche of 283 tons of gold through September 2002 as part of the program." really means it will be sold in amounts, and at times necessary to prevent exceeding POG 290+-. I suspect a major 'sale' is being engineered to coincide with a coming military attack. We'll see.

Just how are these 'sales' being made? Are the Swiss really in control or have they arranged an open ended selling policy through a third party who is calling for certain amounts at specific times? Maybe I'm too suspicious.... maybe not.

American retaliation is being measured in many ways, for many reasons. Not least of which is economic fallout, which IMHO includes POG. How long will the American people endure the quiet of their guns before they consider that the vengence for their dead is being weighed against protection of fat and irresponsible bankers?

The 'PTB' are earning their money now. This is no cakewalk.

Cavan Man (10/1/01; 15:49:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 62770)
CB(too)
Timing is now or never for certain, "vested interests". As we say here; "time to fish or cut bait". Then there's that "winter" thing you've mentioned. Where's the silver lining?

CoBra(too) (10/01/01; 15:43:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 62769)
Retaliation -
http://www.guardian.co.uk/saturday_review/story/0,3605,559756,00.html
... Where to begin ... that seems to be the question! Or not to be from within, when it'd cause indigestion? Maybe fascist sounding "Homeland" Security will be the solution, at least to the final dilution of America's Liberty, which will turn out a mere illusion in the land of the brave and formerly free.

All told, got gold?
Sardonically yours and pardon me - cb2





CoBra(too) (10/1/01; 15:17:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 62768)
Athabasca Tar Sands - @ Black Blade
http://www.dailyreckoning.com/body_headline.cfm?id=1458
Sir, would this be a viable alternative - at least for
a needed transition period? I've come across a few viable "mining" and refining processes over the years, which may separate, say alumina et al from actual oil.

Just listened to U-Mich. economist Siegel, puking out nonsense like there'll be no tomorrow - at least not for any tough recession, as the american consumer is well equipped to handle the existing debt. What crap, as the massively growing unemployed camp won't have zilch to pay even the interest on their credit cards, not to mention mortgage. Though, who cares about Fannie and Freddie, as long as you still get your Big Mac from Uncle Sammy.

Seems like Mc Teers invitation to buy a new SUV is being followed by some other nations as well: Here's a snip from Daily Reckoning:
"All over the world consumers and investors are being mobilized to fight the campaign against terrorism. They take up their credit cards and portfolios and aim at an enemy they can neither see nor understand.

It's madness, of course. Economies are not really helped by investors who make bad investments, nor by consumers who buy things they can't afford.

But madness needs to run its course."

Of course, says I - and don't try to buy physical gold on a platinum card - cb2






goldfool (10/1/01; 15:03:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 62767)
31 killed in Kashmir car bombing

By QAISER MIRZA, Associated Press Writer

SRINAGAR, India (AP) - Gunmen set off a car bomb outside the state legislature in Indian-ruled Kashmir (news - web sites) and then opened fire inside the building Monday, police said. At least 31 people were killed and 75 wounded in the volatile region's worst violence in two years.

Two assailants rushed into the Jammu-Kashmir assembly building after the explosion and traded fire with security forces for seven hours before both were killed, police said. They said many of the casualties were victims of the car bomb, including the driver.

State lawmakers have been meeting in another building nearby since the legislature was damaged by fire recently, and none was hurt, but seven employees still working in the building that was attacked were killed, police said. Nearly 100 others escaped unharmed.

One of the Islamic militant groups fighting for the independence of Jammu-Kashmir claimed responsibility for the attack, whose victims included nine security officers and several civilians.

The death toll was the highest in a single attack in the state since 1999, when 35 Hindus were massacred by militants during a pilgrimage to a cave they regard as holy.

For 12 years, more than a dozen Muslim militant groups have been fighting for the independence of Jammu-Kashmir, the only state in mostly Hindu India with a Muslim majority. Tens of thousands of people have died.

The Pakistan-based militant group Jaish-e-Mohammed claimed responsibility for the attack in a telephone call to The Associated Press in Srinagar.

While police said the attackers stole a federal telecommunications department vehicle at gunpoint and released its driver shortly before the attack, the claim of responsibility said the assailants rented a cab and loaded it with explosives.

Police said the three attackers drove the vehicle to the assembly building and blew it up at about 2 p.m. The driver was killed, but the other two assailants, dressed in police uniforms, got out and stormed into the building firing guns and throwing hand grenades.

The car bomb blast shattered the windows of a nearby hotel and shops and left a dozen bodies lying in the street outside the legislature.

The attack occurred as lawmakers were leaving their temporary assembly hall nearby, and most of the victims were civilians who had been waiting on sidewalks or in cars as police stopped traffic to let the legislators pass.

The group that claimed responsibility for the attack was launched by Massood Azhar, a Pakistani who was one of three men freed from Indian jails in 1999 in exchange for the return of an Indian plane that had been hijacked to Afghanistan (news - web sites), and its passengers.

India called on Pakistan to take action against Jaish-e-Mohammad.

``At a time when the democratic world has formed a broad and determined coalition against international terrorism, India cannot accept such manifestations of hate and terror from across its borders,'' the External Affairs Ministry said in a statement.

Pakistan's foreign ministry condemned the attack, calling it an act of terrorism that was ``especially reprehensible as it appears to be aimed at maligning the legitimate struggle of the Kashmiri people for their right to self-determination.''

The Himalayan region of Kashmir was divided between India and Pakistan after they gained independence in 1947. Both countries claim it in its entirety, and they have fought two wars over it.

Pakistan supports the Kashmiri militants but denies India's claim that it arms and trains the militants, who include some Afghan fighters loyal to Afghanistan's ruling Taliban militia.

That has raised concerns about what will happen in Kashmir now that the United States is threatening to punish the Taliban unless they hand over Osama bin Laden (news - web sites), the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks.



Tannehill (10/1/01; 13:56:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 62766)
Forward sales, Deep storage and more
Well no one has said gold is going down to $200/oz.
Occurred to me, that while President Bush is putting together the forces against terrorism, in addition to fighting forces, he may also need some physical. If this could be rounded up and used to push the price of gold down once again, would this not be a positive for the big hedged mining companies of Barrick and Anglogold?

Continue to turn my silver profits into gold.

That's all from Tannehill

site steward (10/1/01; 13:56:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 62765)
Free silver!
Now that I've got your attention, here's a "housekeeping" item. I'd like to issue this reminder to all first-time posters who have been promised a silver eagle in conjunction with our recent contest period (Sept 24-30).

If you were emboldened to make your first post to the forum during this time, the final NECESSARY step to claim your one ounce US Silver Eagle is to send a note to me (sitemaster@usagold.com) alerting me to the specific post which was your first.

And to make life easiest on our treasury department and our mailing room, please also include/verify your accurate mailing address so that Marie can successfully send you your metal. (Those who have already sent me e-mails are encouraged to follow up with the vital shipping info. Thanks!!)

Thanks again for your new (and continuing) participation!

Galearis (10/1/01; 12:53:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 62764)
Do I detect a note of disgust?
Rhody on silver from National Lampoon2 (Kitco) today
Occasionally the odd bit gets through amidst the death threats and insults....
snip****
Date: Mon Oct 01 2001 14:04
rhody (silver prices) ID#411230:
Copyright © 2001 rhody/Kitco Inc. All rights reserved
I doubt that we will see even $5 silver on COMEX.
In fact, when there is no above ground stock of
silver bullion, I will predict that the price of
silver will be LOWER than it is now. This is
because the option market ( paper silver ) mechanism
for pricing silver is deeply flawed and manipulative. The futures price reflects the
supply of futures, not the supply of silver.
Since options can be made up out of thin air,
there will always be a surplus of paper silver, and a constant decline in price. Paper silver
is about as real as silver as paper currency is
as real as money. Expect no price change on COMEX
to reflect real silver supply fundamentals.
When silver reaches $3 on comex, you won't be
able to find real silver at any price in the real
world. It will all be gone.
unsnip****

OH! I get it! THAT'S what Trail Guide means by $.50 silver!
But I think Rhody is too, too pesimistic. Silver paper will go way over $5 before it goes to $.50.

Time will tell

On us

all.

G.


De Ronin (10/1/01; 12:52:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 62763)
Wrongheaded Policy
Ted D & White Hills,

The US should recognise the touchy, sacred nature of posting US troops in the land of Mecca and Medina. We shouldn't even be asking the Saudis to launch raids from there.

Positioning US troops in Saudi Arabia for security actually does just the opposite.

USAGOLD (10/1/01; 12:40:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 62762)
Today's Report: New Links at Commentary & Review including Aerial of Bin Laden's Stronghold
http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html
10/1/01

In Brief: Gold is
retreating marginally
in the early going
but well supported,
according to the
Reuters London
report. The Fed meets
on Tuesday and that
may have some bearing
on gold's direction.
A growing number of
analysts believe
yellow is poised to
challenge the $300
mark. I have included
a good run of links
and snippets below
twhich tell the
current gold story in
copious detail, and
those with an
interest in gold
would be well-served
in catching on some
of the important
developments and
analysis floating
around the media.
I've also updated the
client news section
to the right [see
Commentary & Review
page]. Enjoy. See you
back here tomorrow or
Wednesday. MK . . . .
..MORE. . . .

To read the rest of
today's report, we
inite you to join us
at our private access
COMMENTARY &
REVIEW page. (A
simple, one-time
registration is
required.)

Please go to the link above.

Netking (10/1/01; 12:26:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 62761)
Iran Gives Warning to U.S.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/aponline/20011001/aponline105002_000.htm
Snippet:
"Iran's Defense Minister warned the United States not to use Iranian airspace for an attack on neighboring Afghanistan, saying Monday that Tehran will react "strongly" if its skies are violated.

"We will strongly defend our airspace and will confront (U.S.) planes if they use our airspace," Defense Minister Ali Shamkhani said at a news conference.

The comment underlined Iran's opposition to a U.S.-led war on terrorism and its refusal to cooperate in an American attack on Afghanistan, whose Taliban rulers shelter Osama bin Laden, the prime suspect in the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

Iran's supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said last week that Iran does not consider the United States "competent and sincere (enough) to lead any global campaign against terrorism. . . "
-----------------------------------------------------------
Meanwhile on Monday, Riyadh adamant again on no logistical aid for US anti-terror war:

Saudi Arabia, the United States' main ally in the strategic Gulf region, is adamant that it will not provide any logistical aid for a planned US war on terrorism, but it has left the door open for Western fighters to use Saudi airspace.

Although top Saudi officials say that Washington, which maintains a strong military presence in the Gulf, has not requested additional help from Riyadh so far, these officials have clearly asserted the kingdom's territory will not be used as a launch pad for anticipated US strikes against Afghanistan

http://asia.dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/world/article.html?s=asia/headlines/011001/world/afp/Riyadh_adamant_on_no_logistical_aid_for_US_anti-terror_war.html

site steward (10/1/01; 12:22:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 62760)
The nature of the dollar's thin ice...
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?nb20011002b1.htm
NEW YORK (Kyodo) The Bank of Japan sold an estimated 3.1 trillion yen in dollar-supporting interventions in the last two weeks, making it the largest round of such interventions on record, according to market analysts.
----

Particularly notable from this article is the comment:

------- "The BOJ has shown fierce determination to prop up the dollar..."--------

Are you willing to entrust the future purchasing power of your paper savings to the "kindness of strangers", so to speak?

Seek the solid independence offered by physical gold.

R.

CoBra(too) (10/1/01; 11:32:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 62759)
- BIS arbitration to convene?
@ Henri - Sir, could you possibly substantiate this message - and @ Chris Powell - Seems like the issues at stake on 109 are too big for any bostonian supreme judge -
as the supremacy of the US$ regime is the delinquent.

... Who would want to be "judged" by history as having delivered the final blow to the current "currency" system and How(e) is it ever possible that some want to know the truth - particularily, after the roof (WTC) has fallen in.

... It wasn't fallin' before, or was it? Though that might prove to be immaterial as now all problems can and will be blamed to terroris'm, fundalis'm and any other schiis'm of the goof up of global capitalis'm.

... AG is already seen as GOP's obscene arbitrageur of the manic bubble horreur - a far cry from a guy, who's supposed to be a follower of Ayn Rand - like contraband.

... And as the world blames Osama Bin Laden for the atrocities, be sure we condemn these together with the Taliban, it may be the time to correct some of the slime, which has tainted high office in the US over the last admin - if that may ever be possible.

- Otherwise, I'll forsee that George Orwell's "1984" is history come to pass!

Viel Spass - cb2



Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. / USAGOLD (10/1/01; 10:25:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 62758)
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