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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 9/1/2000 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) JMB (09/01/00; 23:17:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 35867) JOURNEYMAN Regarding your Question Of The Day: Could it have something to do with the fact that a nation's gold supply can not be increased as fast as it's fiat supply? Black Blade (09/01/00; 22:27:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 35866) RE: 714 and Palladium and Au black market It wouldn't surprise me if that is how the DLA auctioned it's metals. The government has a history of preferential treatment to various industries and certain companies within different sectors. As far as gold is concerned, my grandfather had held onto quite a bit of gold coin even after FDR stole much from other US citizens. I am happy to say that I happened to "inherit" several various Liberties and St. Gaudens, and a few Indians. I remember him saying that "If the gubbermint didn't like it, too bad." and that "there's always Mexico and canada." During the depression they got by since they had a farm/ranch and took odd jobs, but the gold was for "just in case." I imagine that if it became necessary, the gold would have been good as barter with just about anyone. It seems that a lot of people didn't pay any attention to the gubbermint back then. There was at least a limited "black market" for "raw" gold among those who were able mine it and use it as barter, but since FRNs were accepted as an exchange medium it is reasonable that a flourishing wide-ranging black market didn't develop. Interesting is that just most people ignored taxes as well. Times sure have changed. Now it is hard to ignore the gubbermint as they have proven that they are perfectly willing to murder people at the drop of a hat. Also, if one really wants physical Pd, then there are 10 oz. Engelhard bars that can be purchased. Maybe MK and the USAGOLD have access to that market. Bonedaddy (09/01/00; 21:27:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 35865) Journeyman, what an excellet question! I have always considered this phenomenon strange also. But I have never delved any deeper into an explanation than to make the assumption that it occured because increasing unemployment has been used as the rationale for the Fed to lower interest rates. But, your question has stopped me in my mental tracks. By asking why this would not happen if we were on a GOLD backed system, you lead me down a very interesting path. So, here we go.... If the money supply were not manipulated to try and achieve various political outcomes, (and I think we must find that the manipulations are political, because social engineering is political by definition), then the cycles of lending and subsequent confiscation through default would be greatly minimized. A GOLD backed currency limits credit creation. The Fed wouldn't have a loan-sharking operation that confiscates wealth. On a GOLD backed standard the working man would not be coerced into borrowing what he surely cannot repay, to obtain what he certainly cannot afford,and trying and achieve a standard of living completely beyond his means. If it were not for rampant credit creation, and the willingness of the masses to gorge themselves on it, everything any normal person would want or need would be so much more affordable. In 1913 We The People appointed a ruling class that has since enslaved us by our own greed. It's a classic case of giving us enough rope to entangle ourselves and then reeling us in. It reminds me of one of the temptations that Christ was faced with when Satan took him up on a high place and showed him the riches of the world. This may not be the answer you had in mind, but I eagerly await your thoughts on the subject. Thank you for startling me into thought. 714 (09/01/00; 19:46:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 35864) Black Blade re: Palladium I understand the DLA's auction process is rather one-sided. One must be approved to bid, one bids vis-vis the London fix, and the highest bidder does not necessarily get the product. Apparently the government decides whether or not to sell after they see all the bids. And if you win, you have to pick up at some military base in New Jersey. This info comes to me second-hand and I have no way of really verifying it, though it sounds credible knowing what I do about government.I never meant to infer that industrial consumers of palladium would bid for palladium on ebay. I simply posted the info to make a point about off-market prices following the frozen NYMEX price. Currently, I'm doing historical research into gold and have yet to find any evidence of a black market in AU following the Gold Reserve Act in 1934. There was a secondary industrial market, but the pricing structure there did not seem to vary from the official price of $35. Journeyman (09/01/00; 19:21:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 35863) A hint @Leigh, ALL Hmm, a hint - - - hmm. Well, it has to do with anticipating -- and betting on -- something that can happen with fiat money that can't be anticipated with gold - - - because it couldn't be easily controlled with a gold standard.Regards,Journeyman RossL (09/01/00; 19:18:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 35862) Not the this time http://home.columbus.rr.com/rossl/gold.htm Last 2 weeks the big move is the ₯ / £ Topaz (09/01/00; 18:49:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 35861) 'limpics---bring 'em on! A glorious early Spring morning here in the Land of Oz. From my vantage point atop Casa del Topaz, the Olympic City away to the East is abuzz with pre-games preparations- streets being re-marked, lawns mowed and pavements swept. "Welcome World" signage of all descriptions being nailed, dragged, hung and posted in every vantage point that MAY happen to secure a nanosecond of fame via the world-wide media coverage. "The Games of the new Millenium"- proudly bought to you by--- {here insert any one of the miriad, mostly Americo-centric multinational conglomerate juggernauts that have "attached" themselves like grotesque blood-sucking paracites to this once noble but alas now pitiful Organization}.As the coming weeks unfold, the good people of Sydney will be pushed, shoved, re-directed and abused-all in the name of the "Olympic Spirit" and as Sydneysiders, will take all these knocks in their stride and graciously come back for more.Yes, these Olympics are guaranteed to provide a "bitter-sweet" experience. Athletes, Spectators, and the hundreds involved in the organization of same will roll with the punches and bend to the point of breaking to hopefully come out the other end still smiling.From this involved Sydneysider may I extend a warm welcome to all Gold-bugs - either physically or virtually - to the Games of the XXVII Olympiad ..(This space for rent) .<smile> Leigh (09/01/00; 17:24:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 35860) CoBra(too) Thank you for your extremely sweet message!! I've been here almost every day just lurking mostly. I've noticed your posts on LeMetropole Chat. Yes, I too am sensing the winds of change, and I've loaded up my little boat.Had the opportunity to speak with MK the other day on a non-Forum related matter. He's so nice! He's the host of our nonstop party, and what a generous and genteel one he is.ROR on Kitco is agitating for a D.C. Kitcofest. I wrote and suggested to him that he put out a call for a tri-site gold fest. Would anyone here be interested? CoBra(too) (09/01/00; 16:28:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 35859) Hello Leigh - Haven't talked for a while. Hope all's well with you and family - guess you too smell the changing tide, though didn't feel called to answer your quest. To say it with Bill Murphy, we'll win the day - soon -Thanks for being here - we all love you - take care and have a great long weekend (forget labour - for once) - enjoy - your's fondly -cb2 CoBra(too) (09/01/00; 16:12:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 35858) @ Marke Talk - Thanks for Qu. As you know Marke T., I've been a bit of a sceptic on the euro lately -, mostly due to political intervention and expressed my thoughts towards my feelings. As I still feel the 1/4% rate hike is too little and too late, something else of much greater consequence may have happened recently. Let me explain. I'm sure you've heard about the preeminent German newspaper articles in the FAZ (FrankfurterAllgemeine Zeitung)about manipulated gold and other markets, which some of my international friends feel that the "Bundesbank" has stealthily launched and meant to shoot a volley across the bows of some BB's. In particular the Deutsche Bank (incl. BT) and maybe even the US-Treasury - stating that the euro zone is now totally "fed" up (pun intended)with the $ playing games with the rest of the world. I'm not sure if gamely Mr. Summers will be up to playing the game in the same league as R. -gamey Rubin would have coped. Some-things are definitely changing - and as I'm aware I only indirectly answered your question - and while we're talking the perception of the future is changing more rapidly than ever - conclusion: sell some more of your inflated paper for real value. Best cb2 PS: MK - Thank you for kind offer - I'm proud being a first! Leigh (09/01/00; 16:03:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 35857) Journeyman I think you stumped the entire Forum with your question! Nobody has posted for hours! Why don't you give us a hint? Journeyman (09/01/00; 14:36:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 35856) Question of the day @ALL Does it ever seem perverse to you that when the unemployment rate goes up, i.e. people who want to work lose jobs, that that's considered "good for the economy" and the stock-market goes up?QUESTION OF THE DAY: Why wouldn't this perverse aberration happen if we were on a TRUE (convertible) gold standard?Regards,JourneymanP.S. This one is a bit of a sleeper -- there's a bit more to it than meets the eye. Bobbo (09/01/00; 14:30:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 35855) Rally continues... Gold rally continues. So the POG corrected $1.20 today, no biggie and with a three day holiday weekend and early market close you can chalk it up to Labor Day. XAU on the other hand was again a stellar performer and showing continued bullish divergence. It corrected 50% of yesterday's upmove and closed like it wants to move higher, closing: 52.84 +0.50 (+0.96%). And that in light of a Friday close with a 3 day weekend and 1.2 POG drop. Very impressive. Gbugs enjoy the weekend in peace. By Tuesday's open it is possible that one of our international hot spots will begin to flare up and GOLD "iz lukin' gud."Keep the gbug faith. XAU charts are currently a mixed affair and not flashing a clear go ahead short-term, but that condition can last awhile. However, the long term techs/charts are acting super and looking even better than I had expected. This puppy appears to have legs, at least thus far. I would expect either some early weakness on Tuesday or another explosive up move. If weakness presents itself, it should be temporary and another opportunity to buy low. That expected opening gap, which I mentioned Wedsnesday before the close, for Thursday's open materialized. You gotta love it when a plan comes together. However, the question is whether or not it is a break-away gap. Odds favor that it is....and that means higher prices ahead. We will know more next week. Again, everyone enjoy the holiday weekend. GO GOLD...GO XAU!tTt chromey (09/01/00; 13:52:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 35854) Free Gold = Free Mexican Dinner for FOA/Trail Guide I have been a looong time reader and fan. Based on yours and others insight, I am confident about upcoming moves in gold. I appreciate so much the opportunity of 'once in a lifetime' that is present 'in our lifetime.' I would like to say thanks by treating you to a Mexican dinner in or near Aiken, SC. Your thoughts on 'free gold' have inspired me to provide what I can at this time 'Free Mexican Food'! Ask for Kevin at 803-641-2941 or email kjames@duesouth.net.Thanks for the HAPPY TRAILS! Cavan Man (09/01/00; 13:42:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 35853) currency wars "coming out" ? G-E 13.36 Taken from an AP wire story. Cavan Man (09/01/00; 13:40:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 35852) Another (no pun) "Farfel Classic" ....at 13.44 G-E MarkeTalk (09/01/00; 12:43:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 35851) CoBra (too) Do you think today's sharp rise in the Euro against the Dollar is a result of ECB intervention or is it just market perception that interest rates are rising in Europe and staying flat until the U.S. presidential election? Canuck (09/01/00; 12:25:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 35850) Simple arithmetic Credit to PM Trader (Gold-Eagle).Anyone feeling concerned about numbers, shorts or CB sales should read this; mathematics in it's simplest form, astuteobservation.----------------------------------------------------------"Demand does NOT have to increase in order for the gold price to spike. So what if the CB's are selling 2 to 2 1/2 tonnes of gold per trading day. The deficit is (4000-1500)/250=6 tonnes per trading day. Where is the other 3 1/2 to 4 tonnes coming from. I'll tell you where it HAS come from ... Uruguay, Kuwait, Chili, ...One might argue that this DEFICIT will be met by increased leasing. I say no. I say the CB's are very concerned about their 10,000 tonne exposure right now. Why? The Washington Agreement was instated because the gold price was getting so low as to further choke off production. This cannot be allowed if they are to have any hope of getting their gold back.The DEFICIT is not linear at the rate of 6 tonnes per day. In fact, we are entering an annual period where demand is heightened. Thus, one could reasonably argue that the DEFICIT averaged 5 3/4 tonnes per day for the first three quarters of the year, and that the remainder of the year the DEFICIT may average 6 3/4 tonnes. These people have been struggling all year to deal with the DEFICIT implied by a weaker demand period. How are they going to deal w/ an increased DEFICIT as a result of a heightened demand period.Why do you think the WGC did a study to see what the people thought about the relationship of CB gold "reserves" and strength of currency. The supposition was that they really did not care. The result said the EXACT OPPOSITE. These shorts are trying everything they can to postpone the inevitable. Gold will rise as a result of their inability to feed the BEAST. Investment demand will increase as a result of increased price (not the reverse).The dollar need not fall, the euro need not rise, the A$ need not rise, the J$ need not rise, the DOW and NAZDAQ need not fall, inflation need not come, deflation need not come, a new Asian crisis is not needed, posters on this board need not be negative or positive, the price of beans in Zimbabwe currency need not stablilize; Gold is set to rise because they can no longer feed the BEAST.The only way that one could reasonably argue against the prior conclusion is to admit a priori that gold is currently at free and fair market value. This I think we all can agree is ludicrous.PM " Canuck (9/1/2000; 12:15:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 35849) Gold Bonds? From another gold site," I just recieved my quarterly report this morning from Franco Nevada. I note that they have no debt, shareholder equity is 1.4 billion, and they have 713 million in cash. What if they were to sell gold bonds and purchase gold with the cash recieved. One billion worth of gold bonds would purchase 100 tonnes of physical. If they market this successfully they could remove a lot of physical from the market. They would be doing the complete opposite of Barrick Gold, supporting the price of gold instead of trashing it. Anyways I phoned FN inv. rel. and posed this investment plan to them and asked what they thought aboutit. Their reply was that they hadn't thought about it but that it was a interesting idea."-----------------------------------------------------------Any thoughts on this?T.I.A. ET (9/1/2000; 12:07:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 35848) Al http://www.mises.org/humanaction/chap9sec2.asp Hey Al - thanks for the thoughtful response. Please do not consider me an intellectual, idealist or any such type. I'm simply a guy that was shown the path of free markets nearly 35 years ago. It has given me much time to study the many authors that have written of economics and politics. Interestingly enough, the first book which started me down this road was Ayn Rand's "Fountainhead". I next read "Atlas Shrugged" and "We The Living". I see one of our newest members here is reading about John Galt. Also please do not equate my belief in free markets to the recent statist protection programs like NAFTA and GATT. Although they trumpet themselves to be in the interest of free trade, they are merely protection schemes for the status quo.When I said I was much more concerned about bad ideas than bad people it is in regards to economic organization. Sure there are bad people out there but a bad idea can have a much greater impact on society than a few bad people. Now put together bad people with bad ideas and you end up with world wars.Above is a chapter from Mises' "Human Action", which I hope you will get a chance to read. He explains the importance of ideas in our society. Below are a couple of paragraphs from this chapter which focus on our discussion at hand. Thanks again for the reply and I hope you come to understand that we are not as far apart as it may seem."In the field of society's economic organization there are the liberals advocating private ownership of the means of production, the socialists advocating public ownership of the means of production, and the interventionists advocating a third system which, they contend, is as far from socialism as it is from capitalism. In the clash of these parties there is again much talk about basic philosophical issues. People speak of true liberty, equality, social justice, the rights of the individual, community, solidarity, and humanitarianism. But each party is intent upon proving by ratiocination and by referring to historical experience that only the system it recommends will make the citizens prosperous and satisfied. They tell the people that realization of their program will raise the standard of living to a higher level than realization of any other party's program. They insist upon the expediency of their plans and upon their utility. It is obvious that they do not differ from one another with regard to ends but only as to means. They all pretend to aim at the highest material welfare for the majority of citizens. "The nationalists stress the point that there is an irreconcilable conflict between the interests of various nations, but that, on the other hand, the rightly understood interests of all the citizens within the nation are harmonious. A nation can prosper only at the expense of other nations; the individual citizen can fare well only if his nation flourishes. The liberals have a different opinion. They believe that the interests of various nations harmonize no less than those of the various groups, classes, and strata of individuals within a nation. They believe that peaceful international cooperation is a more appropriate means than conflict for the attainment of the end which they and the nationalists are both aiming at: their own nation's welfare. They do not, as the nationalists charge, advocate peace and free trade in order to betray their own nation's interests to those of foreigners. On the contrary, they consider peace and free trade the best means to make their own nation wealthy. What separates the free traders from the nationalists are not ends, but the means recommended for attainment of the ends common to both." Canuck (9/1/2000; 12:00:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 35847) CRB high http://www.crbindex.com/curquote/crbquote.mhtml Bridge/CRB Current QuotesOther Futures Markets Bridge/CRB Index Page snapshot Fri 01 Sep 2000 14:01 ET Description Last Change Percent Change Bridge CRB Index 228.46 +1.05 +0.46 % Bridge CRB Futures Price Index 226.25 +0.65 +0.29 % --------------------------------------------------------228.46 and rising. Leigh (9/1/2000; 11:32:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 35846) Al Fulchino Al, thank you for your beautiful messages! I agree with you that we're given free will to make choices, and our choices define our characters. Thankfully, regardless of the bad choices we've made in the past (and who hasn't made TONS of them?), we can always start afresh. Buena Fe (9/1/2000; 10:52:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 35845) rumours of war? Arutz Sheva News Service <http://www.IsraelNationalNews.com>Friday, Sept. 1, 2000 / Rosh Chodesh Elul, 5760------------------------------------------------U.S. ALERT CONFUSES ISRAELJerusalem government sources are having trouble understanding why exactly United States forces in Germany have suddenly gone on anti-Scud alert. Prime Minister Barak said that Israel is keeping an eye on the situation in Iraq, and that as far as is known, there is no need to send Patriot missiles to Israel. The Washington Post reported today, in the name of Pentagon sources, that Iraq is liable to attack a nation "friendly with the U.S." one month from now. Other sources in the American capital feel that the entire issue is an election-campaign gimmick, as the Republicans have accused the ruling Democrats of being "soft" on Iraq. Al Fulchino (9/1/2000; 10:15:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 35844) Ideas and People: Are they seperate? A while back someone here, possibly ET <correct my memory if I am wrong >mentioned that he believed in good and bad ideas, not necessarily good and bad people.And this concept caught my eye, when I saw it. I was a bit puzzled that this concept couldbe held when we witness in our daily news, the stories of genocide, rapes, child abusegood and bad economic policies etc. Surely, I thought this person is another intellect whoonly lives in the realm of his head.<smile> A genuinely fine person he may very well be.He probably does all kinds of fine things for family friends and country, but can he reallybelieve that there are no good or bad people? So for a week or so now I have ponderedhis statement and wondered if perhaps my idea of things was incorrect. I have in factcome to see that this person is partially right, and that I am partially right. Giving myfriend here the first shot, I say that he is correct that whether it be an economic idea, or amurderous idea, the idea itself is indeed good or bad. But my departure is this, peoplethemselves will always posses free choice and and more importantly will. A will for thisgood idea or bad idea. It is very important to recognize that a human being is theconveyor of the good or bad idea. If for instance a flower contains a gene that makes itspetals red, is that flower not red? Then by the same token if a man harbors a bad idea, ishe not know by that same idea? Be it good or bad? And whether he just wishes it orcarries it out?It is very important to not isolate an idea from a person who carries it out, whether it beBill Clinton, Alan Greenspan, Ronald Reagan or Adolph Hitler. To say that the idea heldto in the heart and mind can be separated from the person is incorrect. And is indeednothing more than an intellectual gymnastic. Al Fulchino (9/1/2000; 9:47:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 35843) For your thoughts The following is a good read that many who visit here will enjoy pondering. It is from amonthly newsletter printed by Pastor Mike Rattin of the Faith Baptist Church inHollis.NH He includes a Biblical passage and a short story by an unknown author.Whether the story is true or not, I do not know, but if there are any refiners of silveramong us, your input would be useful. I will just let it stand by itself and offer it up foryour comsumption. Enjoy and thanks for reading.Refiner's Fire "He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine themlike gold and silver. Then the Lord will have men who will bring offerings inrighteousness, " Malachi 3:3 (NIV)Some time ago, a few ladies met in a certain city to read yje scriptures, and make themthe subject of conversation. While reading the third chapter of Malachi they came upon aremarkable expression in the third verse. "And He will sit as a refiner and purifier ofsilver."One ladies opinion was that it was intended to convey the view of the sanctifyinginfluence of the grace of God. Then she proposed to visit a silversmith and report to themwhat he said on the subject. She went accordingly and without telling the object of hererrand, begged to know the process of refining silver, which he fully described to her."But Sir" she said" do you sit while the work of refining is going on?""Oh, yes Madam," replied the silversmith. "I must sit with my eye steadily fixed on thefurnace for if the time necessary for refining be exceeded in the slightest degree, thesilver will be injured."The lady at once saw the beauty, and comfort too, of the expression, "He will sit as arefiner and purifier of silver.:God sees the need to put his children into the furnace of trials; His eye is steadily intenton the work of purifying, and His wisdom and love are both engaged in the best mannerfor them. Their trials do not come at random; "the very hairs of your head arenumbered."As the lady was leaving the shop, the silversmith called her back and said he still hadmore to mention, that he knows the process od purifying is complete when he can see hisown image reflected in the silver. -Author unknown schippi (9/1/2000; 9:44:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 35842) Email reply to Futuresource.com http://www.SelectSectors.com/gldresit.gif Jim Select Gold ( FSAGX ) is a good proxy for the Gold stocks. The Gold overhead resistance chart at: Shows that a multi year Downtrend in Gold has been concluded,and that an Uptrend channel is now in place. Further it appears that we are now at the bottom of this Uptrend channel, poised for a move to the Upside. Best Regards Schippi Black Blade (9/1/2000; 9:08:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 35841) AngloGold and Mintek Look for More Industrial Uses for Gold Source: Gold news, p. 8 (The Gold Institute) AngloGold LTD., the world's largest gold producer, and Mintek, South Africa's national metallurgical research organization, have launched a joint venture to pursue the research and development of gold's industrial uses.Named Project AuTEK, the purpose of the 50/50 joint venture will be to exploit gold's unique properties for industrial applications and focus on the uses of gold as a catalysts in chemical processes. The company hopes to discover and promote additional uses of gold as a catalysts in air purification, automotive applications and in the chemical industry.Speaking at the announcement of the project, Dave Hodgson, AngloGold's Executive Officer responsible for technology, said: "The changing emphasis of society towards a cleaner and more user friendly environment has created more opportunities for gold which will be the subject of the collaborative venture's research."Next year, AngloGold also plans to conduct a conference in South Africa of international researchers and potential commercial users of gold and related applications.Mike Cortie, Manager of the project's research division at Mintek, said: "The commercial application of the catalytic properties of gold has yet to be proven and tested." He added: "Our immediate next step is to compare the potential gold catalysts to the existing ones and establish their commercial viability. There is technological proof that gold has potential application in certain types of fuel cells that provide environmentally friendly power and in heavy industry chemical synthesis. We have started our research by targeting the use of gold in catalysts designed to remove pollutants such as carbon monoxide from air."Project officials expect that early applications will help clean air in office buildings, airplanes and other confined areas with heavy concentrations of people.Black Blade: I see a moral dilemma developing here for radical environmentalists who hate mining. And it's cheaper and more abundant than PGMs! USAGOLD (9/1/2000; 8:51:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 35840) Gold Holding on to Yesterday's Gains http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html DAILY COMMENTARY (9/1/00) www.USAGOLD.com . . . Gold was down slightly on light Asian selling and lack of short covering follow-through in Asia and Europe overnight. There is little in the way of fresh gold news this morning though we note with interest some traders predicting a resumption of the short covering that along with strong Asian physical demand pushed gold up $4 yesterday. Today's COMEX session will be cut short ramping up to the long Labor Day weekend. Oil is ignoring the prospect of increased Saudi production with one London trader remarking that "traders do not generally believe that a half million barrel per day [increase] will be sufficient." Also, Goldman Sachs commented that crude inventories relative to demand were at their lowest level since the 1970s. The net result is crude trading steady near the $33 mark in the early going. Soft jobs data was working the Dow higher this morning but the report was jello-like in its consistency. One observes that much of the employment losses were the result of one-time events -- census workers being sent home and the Verizon strike. One wonders if the optimism about the Fed and interest rates will hold among the more realistic on Wall Street. The dollar is taking a hit against the major currencies with the euro and yen leading the way. The move is questionable though when one takes into account the European Central Bank's anemic one-quarter point interest rate increase. The next few days will tell whether or not there has been a change in sentiment, or if something else might be going on -- like co-ordinated intervention to ameliorate the ECB's weak swing. We'll see if all of this accrues to gold's benefit as the day moves along. Have a nice weekend, fellow goldmeisters, we'll see you back here on Monday.If you would like to receive an introductory information packet on gold ownership through USAGOLD/Centennial Precious Metals, please click on the link above. Topaz (9/1/2000; 8:49:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 35839) Aristotle Hello Ari,Great news about AIII- if I recall he did indicate his absence (from the forum) in his last post but it has been rather a long time. The esteem you hold Aragorn in is very impressive and if minds such as yours (and his) are about rectifying the imbalences inherent in the current system then I can rest easily.So too your mutual admiration for the thoughts of Another. (shared here)One can only hope time finds HIM also able to return to this fold.One question if I may Ari,What is your take on ORO's position that a Freegold system is doomed to failure given Greshams Law, in which he cited the Roman experience as an historical example?When time permits svp good Sir. SteveH (9/1/2000; 8:28:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 35838) How 'bout that Euro dollar down(-1.19); Euro up (1.20) Black Blade (9/1/2000; 7:52:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 35837) Market News - Jobs report Stocks Rising and Gold under a bit of Pressure Rally in store for shares By Julie Rannazzisi, CBS.MarketWatch.comLast Update: 9:07 AM ET Sep 1, 2000 NEW YORK (CBS.MW) - A friendly August jobs report will give buyers reason to cheer at the open Friday as it reinforces their view that the Fed can stay sidelined, perhaps for the remainder of the year. September S&P 500 futures tacked on 12.60 points, or 0.9 percent, and were trading roughly 12.50 points above fair value, according to figures provided by HL Camp & Co. Nasdaq futures, meanwhile, climbed 83.00 points, or 2.0 percent, extending earlier gains. Non-farm payrolls fell by 105,000, catching Wall Street off guard with the large drop. But market watchers need to sift through the August numbers more carefully, as they were skewed by the Verizon strike and government layoffs of temporary census workers. Excluding the impact of the strike and the government layoffs, 102,000 non-farm jobs were created. Within the report, the unemployment rate rose to 4.1 percent compared to the 4 percent rate in the previous month. Average hourly earnings rose by 0.3 percent, less compared to expectations. The Federal Reserve's main concern throughout the tightening cycle has been the taut labor market, which it fears will eventually fuel wage inflation. Thus far, however, productivity growth has continued to outstrip wage inflation. View Economic Preview, economic calendar and forecasts and historical economic data. Investors will keep their eye on the retail sector following Thursday's fallout on the heels of some earnings warnings and less-than-stellar same store sale results Separately, Trim Tabs said all equity funds saw inflows of $5.6 billion during the week ended Aug. 30 - the same amount witnessed in the previous week. Equity funds investing chiefly in U.S. stocks had inflows of $5.4 billion compared with inflows of $5.6 billion in the previous week. In the bond market, Treasurys gained ground, erasing earlier losses, as the tame employment report brought out the bulls. On Thursday, the long end enjoyed a stellar rally. The 10-year Treasury note added 9/32 to yield ($TNX: news, msgs) 5.69 percent and the 30-year bond added 3/32 to yield ($TYX: news, msgs) 5.66 percent. The market will also get a look at the August National Association of Purchasing Management index Friday, which is expected to come in at 51.8 percent, according to a survey of economists conducted by CBS MarketWatch.com. On Thursday, the Chicago Purchasing Managers index slid to 46.5 percent in August from the previous month's reading of 52 percent. A reading below 50 percent indicates a contracting manufacturing sector. Over in the currency market, dollar/yen (C_JPY: news, msgs) lost 0.2 percent to 106.49 while euro/dollar (C_EUR: news, msgs) slipped 0.7 percent to 0.8884. Black Blade (9/1/2000; 6:39:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 35836) RE: 714 Palladium No numbers have been given, nor has the buyer been identified for the first 100,000 ounces. I don't know if there is a schedule in place or if only certain buyers are allowed. It could go direct to the market via the COMEX or between the auto-manufacturers. However, once sold, the situation of depleted Pd supplies remains. The western suppliers of course produce greater amounts of Pt, and therefore it is likely that Pt and Rh will be under greater pressure going forward, though not as efficent as Pd. We will have to await auction results provided the DLA folks are willing to make them known. Black Blade (9/1/2000; 6:30:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 35835) "Morning Wakeup Call!" Wall Street set to Charge Ahead! Source: BridgeNews THE EASTERN FRONT:Asia Precious Metals Review: Gold extends rise on short-coveringBy Mari Iwata and Polly Yam, BridgeNewsTokyo--Sept. 1--Spot gold extended overnight gains to Asia on Friday due to short-covering amid a lack of selling interest, dealers said. Spot gold is expected to break the nearby resistance of U.S. $280 later Friday or early next week, but it would be hard to test the next resistance of $285, as selling from central banks and producers could emerge, they said. The Asian trading concentrated on gold, while trading of other precious metals remained sluggish.Black Blade: Cool!THE WESTERN FRONT:Technical Update: Gold and silver mining stocks firming New York--Aug. 31--With gold being a drag on the Bridge/Commodity Research Bureau price index's rally, there are signs emerging in the stock market that suggest that the end of its bear market may be near. The XAU gold and silver stocks index has been stable for the past month and showed some encouraging technicals as silver rallied. Stocks can perk up before their related commodities so it may be time to give both a closer look. (Story .20415)Black Blade: Cool Again! The question is whether we go into the long weekend on a higher note, or do the shorts hammer the PMs.Meanwhile, S&P Futures are up +7.00, Fair Value +24.18, indicating a very strong to extremely strong NY open at these levels. Oil is off $0.12 at $32.02/bbl, and NG is off its all-time high at $4.765 Mbtu. Au is off 90 cents at $276.00, Ag is unchanged at $4.94, Pt up +$5.00 at $590.00 ($590.00 London AM), and Pt up +$5.00 at $718.00 ($724.00 London). 714 (9/1/2000; 5:57:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 35834) Black Blade re: Palladium Any idea what DLA is getting for their reserves?Thanks. Black Blade (9/1/2000; 5:55:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 35833) RE: Palladium The "Defense Logistics Agency" has auctioned 100,000 ounces, and the remaining 800,000 ounces are to be auctioned also. There was only 900,000 ounces in the strategic reserve to begin with, and it is all for sale. As far as an auction for a couple of one ounce bullion Pd coins is concerned, I seriously doubt that the major industrial consumers are going to waste their time bidding on ebay. Most manufacturers are working off their Pd stockpiles (sponge-form), and taking contractual deliveries from western sources. Others have switched back to the Pt-Rh combination that they used previous to the innovation of Pd catalyst technology. Besides, there isn't any Pd in sufficient quantity to be sold and the market is effectively dead. Even the COT in Pd futures no longer exists. The prices are more likely posted as a formality than anything else. Speculators have likely left for "greener pastures". -Black Bladeb Canuck (9/1/2000; 5:52:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 35832) Attempt to rouse Stranger and Oro Uncle Oro,Can we PLEASE have one more horse racing story Uncle Oro?Stranger,The NEW ECONOMY is keeping inflation in check; it's the best thing since sliced bread!! 714 (9/1/2000; 5:36:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 35831) re: Palladium Here's the results of palladium auctions on one ounce pieces over at our popular auction website:Bermuda Commemorative $698.01 (did not meet reserve)Soviet Ballerina 790.00 (bidding ends today)Engelhard ingot 708.00 (did not meet reserve)Panda 725.00So the average price on our off-market palladium is $730.25, just shy of NYMEX's frozen $740 spot price. Also note that once the Ballarina is gone, there are no more bullion pieces up for auction.According to one of my sources in the business, the Defense Logistics Agency is auctioning some of its palladium stockpile, providing a small amount to the market. Apparently, most manufacturers are awaiting a resumption of shipments from Russia. This source also states that there is no dealing directly with Russian miners as all palladium is sold through a state agency.**************************************************************As you can see, off-market palladium is going for no more than NYMEX's frozen spot price. Draw your own conclusions..... Leigh (9/1/2000; 5:31:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 35830) Aristotle I really love your message from early this morning about Free Gold. It set me to wondering, though. When you consider that most European nations are essentially socialist, and that the U.S. is getting more that way every day, I wonder how long it would take the government to decide that gold could better be used for "the common good" rather than personal wealth. Knallgold (9/1/2000; 4:45:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 35829) FAZ articles "FRANKFURTER ALLGEMEINE ZEITUNGAugust 30, 2000Is the gold price manipulated by large banks and the American government?..."Given GATA's assumption that the FAZ articles were inspired by the Bundesbank,with the above title they would show they want a free Gold.In the other article,the words "free market" are used in the context of the Gold market:"..In the free market, which in the case of gold is being "made" ..."Another interesting sentence:"..they have to take a good look at the solvency of their own clients as well their counterparties, when trading with derivatives.." (sounds like a warning!)And there is no talk of Central Banks manipulations-a sign that the present Gold market is not backed anymore by them?My speculation:Europe wants a free Gold market (June rumour!)-a fact, and the FAZ articles were the warning shot.(BTW,Switzerland will end with selling of the first tranche end of Sept..Details of the second tranche are still open I think) HI - HAT (9/1/2000; 4:33:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 35828) Cruxt Of The Matter PURCHASING POWER That philosophical ditty, that begins with, " and the race does not go to the swift" is false.Tes it does go to the swift. To those who have concluded what means are best deployed to safeguard purchasing power over spans of time greater than 1 qwarter.Make no mistake, the tempo of musical chairs spiraling around a black hole of debt, in our virtual world, has reached overwhelm speed.I see many, many running harder and harder, but slipping behind as purchasing power relentlessly evaporates, almost in an invisable process.The implications of more and more of the masses being unableto afford a standard of living that Masison Avenue portrays as "normal", will continue to escalate social angst andunrest. HI - HAT (9/1/2000; 4:32:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 35827) Cruxt Of The Matter PURCHASING POWER That philosophical ditty, that begins with, " and the race does not go to the swift" is false.Tes it does go to the swift. To those who have concluded what means are best deployed to safeguard purchasing power over spans of time greater than 1 qwarter.Make no mistake, the tempo of musical chairs spiraling around a black hole of debt, in our virtual world, has reached overwhelm speed.I see many, many running harder and harder, but slipping behind as purchasing power relentlessly evaporates, almost in an invisable process.The implications of more and more of the masses being unableto afford a standard of living that Masison Avenue portrays as "normal", will continue to escalate social angst andunrest. Black Blade (9/1/2000; 4:32:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 35826) High Winter Energy Costs! (and Fun Winter Activities). By: THE ASSOCIATED PRESS High gas, oil prices may make winter a bit costly Charleston Daily Mail CHICAGO - Whether they use natural gas or oil to heat their homes, consumers can expect higher energy costs this winter, with natural gas and heating oil prices near historic highs. "This year the squirrel isn't burying any nuts and we're going into the winter on fumes," said Phil Flynn, an energy analyst for Alaron Trading Corp. in Chicago. "Unless something dramatic happens, we're looking at a very expensive winter." Energy markets were jolted this week by a combination of developments that sent prices shooting higher - an unexpected drop in U.S. crude oil stockpiles coupled with a pipeline explosion in New Mexico and a hurricane that raised fears of another blow to already- low natural gas supplies. Soon the aftershocks will be felt by consumers, whose utilities already were warning them to brace for big bills ahead. Suzanne deGraff, a natural gas customer from Rochester, N.Y., said she's been told her monthly bill from Rochester Gas and Electric Co. will jump about $26 to $130. "I'm not happy," she said, "but, again, they're the only ones in town. What am I going to do?" Whether a customer's utility provides natural gas or heating oil, there appears to be no way around prices heading higher than last winter - one of the costliest home heating seasons ever. Home heating oil prices surged this week to their highest since the Gulf War in the wake of industry surveys showing inventories of U.S. crude oil, its source, dropping to 24-year lows. Heating oil remains more than 50 percent more expensive than a year ago. The increase is blamed partly on a cutback in production by the Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries. Natural gas has rocketed upward for different reasons. U.S. supplies of natural gas have been declining since the mid- 1990s amid a drop in production by energy firms that didn't find it worth their while when prices were low. Prices have more than doubled in the last year and a half and reached an all-time high of $4.85 per 1,000 cubic feet this week on the New York Merc, where futures prices are a precursor for wholesale and retail trends. Making matters worse, production hasn't been revved back up, rising just 1 percent this year. And demand is up sharply in a booming economy that has industrial use surging and more Americans plugging into computers. The nation depends increasingly on natural gas to generate electricity as utilities gradually switch from coal and nuclear-powered plants. The situation has worsened this summer, with heavy usage for air conditioners preventing the industry from stockpiling for the winter as it usually does. Natural gas inventories are near six-year lows. That leaves gas prices highly susceptible to supply disruptions - such as last Saturday's pipeline explosion in New Mexico that killed 11 people and shut down a primary gas main supplying California. Hurricane Debby's brief advance toward key production facilities in the Caribbean and the Gulf of Mexico raised fears of similar trouble and propelled prices higher before they fell back. Experts say consumers could skate by this winter only if last year's warmest winter on record is followed by one at least as warm. Black Blade: Got my wood-burning stove, several cords of juniper, and a whole mountain range of trees. Looks like a few people might be shivering in the dark though. I guess some could keep warm by thinking warm fuzzy thoughts of how they are contributing to the environment with self-sacrifice, and how there is no inflation because the new economy doesn't require petroleum. I'll think of them while I sit by a cozy fire, smoke a stogie, and read a good book with a glass of brandy in hand. Then again, maybe I'll just get naked and roll around in my gold bullion :-) Black Blade (9/1/2000; 3:59:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 35825) Oil and Gas to rise Much More The following are just a few government proposals to put the screws to the petroleum industry. Prices will continue to rise, and the blame will go to OPEC, or the "Big, Bad Oil" Companies, but will not land at the feet of those most at blame - the gubbermint! - Black BladeANWR monument This fall President Bill Clinton could designate the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge coastal plain as a national monument. Rep. Don Young (R-Alas.) has asked Clinton to confirm or deny those rumors. Young is chairman of the House Resources Committee, which has jurisdiction over federal lands. Clinton reportedly is considering using his powers under the 1906 Antiquities Act to declare a monument on ANWR's coastal plain, preventing any future development. The coastal plain east of Prudhoe Bay field is believed to contain large oil reserves but cannot be leased unless authorized by Congress. Young said the Alaska National Interest Lands Conservation Act mandates that only Congress can designate monuments, wilderness areas, and refuges on federal lands in Alaska. Black Blade: This is probably the last possible undiscovered giant oil field in NA. Alaskans want it, but outsiders figure they know best for Alaska. I guess Billy-Bob Clinton dreamt this up while relaxing by the "cement pond". Why shucks, he shoulda called up ole Jed Clampett, Jethro, Granny and Ellie-May and discussed it at one of the White House hoe-downs. Why hell, he could get cousin Hillary, er the wife Hillary, and buy oil futures first. Those cattle futures worked out well. Diesel sulfur By December, the Environmental Protection Agency plans to issue a final rule to cut the sulfur content in diesel fuel 97% from the current 500 ppm to 15 ppm. It said diesel must be significantly cleaner-burning to ensure that truck and bus pollution control technology is effective. The American Petroleum Institute warned EPA that the rule will cause shortages. It said, "The refining industry is unable to produce sufficient 15 ppm sulfur diesel, nor can our distribution system supply it across the country." Black Blade: More refining at stressed refiners, cutting back on available supplies of distillates, and increasing the cost of diesel. Looks like another contribution to inflation and deliveries of goods and services will cost more.Wilderness roads In the fall the U.S. Forest Service will be reviewing public comments regarding its proposed a ban on road construction in nearly a quarter of the 192-million-acre National Forest system. The proposal covers more than 54 million acres of inventoried roadless areas. It would allow forest managers to propose additional protection for the inventoried areas and other smaller roadless areas through local forest planning processes. The Independent Petroleum Association of America said, "The nation needs more access, not less, to areas of this country where oil and gas may be found." House and Senate committees have held hearings critical of the proposal. Black Blade: Wonder why we aren't self-reliant for are oil needs? Of course after Bruce Babbit's, Al Gore's, and Billy-Bobs "slash and burn" policy of the western lands due to misguided ideas of environmentalism and conservationism, petroleum and mining companies may be allowed onto the resulting "moonscape". Aristotle (9/1/2000; 3:19:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 35824) Hi Topaz--I'm only passing through so this will be quick I think you are too hard on yourself when you say "MVHO" regarding the items you've forecasted--because you are essentially already correct, though most people don't see it that way. Yet.While not widely recognized as such, Europe already has "declared for Gold" when they included Gold assets within the ECB reserves that would be regularly marked to market. The implications of this as the prominent international practice is huge. Where it was necessary, member nations, and even Greece on the threshold, were all required to drop national policy impediments to free trade of Gold."...accompanied by China" you say? Bingo. Already in the works. Restructuring markets for the free trade of Gold, that is.Why the focus on free market Gold, a person might ask? Because a fixed Gold exchange standard is not practical for the reason you articulated skepticism regarding the political and social acceptance of the euro as a unified currency for even "just a tiny block" of countries. You said--"When you think about it, to expect to take a "snapshot" of eleven different economies, all in different cycles of econ activity, then "cast in stone" a common currency is a pretty big ask, NO?Then accept that these 11 fractal (they basically hate each others guts) countries are to waltz off arm-in-arm and live happily ever after--------NAAAA!"If you envision resistance among a trading block of 11 countries "shackling" themselves to a single yet holistically flexible currency, is their any practical hope that the entire world would do it for a single inflexible currency in the form of Gold? That's an even bigger ask, and probably rates an even bigger "NAAAAA!" It's better to let Gold fulfill the role in the world that it is uniquely suited to serve--as THE monetary reserve asset held eagerly by nations, banks, corporations, and individuals.This drive toward freemarket Gold is good thing, and should eventually be seen by monetary thinkers as a natural turn of events--the culmination of past experience and developments to simply "allow" a monetary system to exist which can function in harmony with man's "predictably capricious" character.On a related note, regarding your earlier seeking of Aragorn--who's well and will surely appreciate your inquiry--it was this same inescapeable human element that most troubled his thoughts regarding what he came to agree was clearly the best-suited system (FreeGold) to accommodate mankind's nature. He held no worries for the longevity of FreeGold once it had itself been well-established, but maintained concern for a waning commitment of followthrough at such a time when the U.S. feels the pinch as the international FreeGold standard gets raised higher up the flagpole. Clearly seeing this as the greatest modern promise for all of mankind coming within reach, Aragorn's concern was that as the necessary and ultimate victory for FreeGold draws ever nearer, "our hands may prove too small to hold it."Because the U.S. would likely turn bad-tempered upon the loss of its priviliged status in international trade, the "hoisting of the standard" would best be brought about through the comparatively slower but natural evolutionary forces of the multitudes in the international marketplace than through any official "lightning in the night" declaration by any single and easily identifiable "target for anger" in the eyes of the U.S. However, it must be said that any way you slice it, the discomfort felt in the U.S. is from laying in a bed of our own making.Fortunately, we have at least the potential to attain a good productive capacity, and could soon enough thereafter be participating well with the world on a level playing field of mutually beneficial economic exchange. Furthermore, Aragorn had not long ago suggested that ANOTHER and his message should be treated with the full respect owed to a potential Nobel candidate or laureate; and upon being asked "Economics or Peace?" his answer was "Both at once." That's pretty high praise, my friends, directed toward an anonymous someone who puts messages into bottles to be set adrift upon our cyber sea. And I'm definately inclined to agree. FreeGold strikes the perfect balance--hanging like the description of my "monetary pendulum" with an idealistic yet pragmatic perfection at dead center.Gold as a fairly valued reserve asset. Get you some. ---Aristotle Topaz (09/01/00; 00:01:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 35823) HI-HAT euro. Good evening HH:On Deutche-welle (german/english radio) today the 25 bp increase in rates were reasoned as being directly related to OIL price increases.There didn't seem any great consern (still) re: US$/EURO.At least they're honest and recognise the inflationary impact of the Oil price increase - albeit oil HAS gone up much more in E than in $.When you think about it, to expect to take a "snapshot" of eleven different economies, all in different cycles of econ activity, then "cast in stone" a common currency is a pretty big ask, NO?Then accept that these 11 fractal (they basically hate each others guts) countries are to waltz off arm-in-arm and live happily ever after--------NAAAA!It's STILL got all the hallmarks of a "Dollar wreak havoc on thyself" scenario and when, and only when that happens-- THEN euro will declare for GOLD, accompanied by China etc. MVHO ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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