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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 1/1/2000 All times are U.S. Mountain Time View Yesterday's Discussion. SHIFTY (01/01/00; 23:35:08MDT - Msg ID:22024) gold closed mon. 1/3/00 I just noticed on kitco,that gold is closed on monday.Is this new or did I just not notice it the other day? FOA (01/01/00; 23:16:07MDT - Msg ID:22023) Comment canamami (01/01/00; 22:36:25MDT - Msg ID:22017)The gold "subculture" - Reply to Number Six, koan-------------------In the future we will read of the paper gold "subculture" that invested mostly in gold derivatives instead of gold. Even with the leverage of mining shares clearly working against them, this group will be questioned as to why they stayed the course. I suspect that they will eventually be buying gold at ever increasing prices, kicking and screaming all the while. Eventually enjoying the benefit of the only way to beat this dollar manipulated marketplace. Physical gold. I never thought that I would see the day when investors brought into a business that tried to sell it's product (gold) down?? And defended their action with more suggestions to buy! Then when someone suggested to change their investment mix to buy mostly the product (gold) and less the business (mining),,,,,a move I add that would drive the product (gold) price up,,,,,,,,,,,,,that logic is attacked with pitchfork and fire?????????? Indeed, this logic does belong in a "subculture".Be back later FOANote: ORO, I'm still working on a reply to you. FOA (01/01/00; 22:50:45MDT - Msg ID:22022) Reply JCTex (01/01/00; 20:59:08MDT - Msg ID:22012)FOA: end is closer than many thinkAny truth to the rumor that the Saudis gave the CBs an ultimatum concerning gold sales? Hello JCTex, You must not have read the Hall Of Fame posts by Aristotle and others?FOA Number Six (01/01/00; 22:49:50MDT - Msg ID:22021) @Canamami - splinter groups....:o) LOL, yeah good one. Well i feel I'm in good company with farfel, the stranger, chester and a whole bunch of others.But somebody please reassure me, there IS a relationship between oil and gold, ***isn't there???***LOL! FOA (01/01/00; 22:49:45MDT - Msg ID:22020) Reply canamami (01/01/00; 21:08:25MDT - Msg ID:22013)Question re Remedies for US Breach of ContractThis is open to the entire Forum, though it may be of particular interest to FOA.Hello Canamami, Your thoughts:--------Is it possible to distinguish between pre-August 1971 Bretton Woods/gold-backed dollars and post-1971 dollars? It would seem that only those dollars which existed prior to August 1971 represent a breach of contract by the US. --------- I have to put your items in context. Why would it be important to separate the pre and post gold backed dollars? That was not the thrust of the logic presented. The point was that foreign entities would take the US to task in trying to reclaim their gold at $42 per dollar. Simple international contract law does not allow the same contract to be honoured today and not yesterday?? Our present dollars have not changed in legal interpretation from their beginning. Only the Treasury committed an outright default by not supplying gold back then. Truly, the government should have reissued a new currency at the time of default. Today, any return to backing the dollar with gold would open up a can of worms for the US. Especially in light of the success of the German and Swiss WW2 payments. Again, the whole reason for pointing this out is to highlight the political repercussions from backing the dollar with gold. Many suggest such an avenue and we point out that a new currency would have to be printed to avoid this. It's just another reason why an argument for backing the dollar with gold is impossible and dollar assets are at risk. The US gold stocks valued at any price will not save the dollar.------Further, even on a purely moral basis, given that the rest of the world accepted US dollars after the 1971 breach of contract, would such acceptance constitute a waiver of the breach, thereby nullifying even a moral claim to US gold? ------------ Would the US risk such a move using this light argument as a loophole? I doubt it and so do a lot of others.--------Moreover, it appears that by the early 1960's the world knew that the dollars outstanding exceeded the gold backing, yet the world continued to use the dollars? Again, the world accepted the US dollars knowing there was realistically no gold backing, thereby nullifying the moral claim.--------- So, in the same light, if the world stopped paying off dollar debts they could not pay, does this action nullify the moral claim that everyone should pay dollar debts? Further, if you buy a junk bond that is trading without payments, does your purchase relinquish the issuers obligation to pay you any interest? This logic does not work in your presentation or mine as offered. -------Does not the continued prominence of the US dollar reflect value to US currency which stems from more than mere "gold backing" or "acceptance for oil settlement"?--------- I ask you, does not the high level of the US stock market reflect it's prominence rather than mere earnings or rational P/E ratios? Truly, the mind in a crowd thinks the common thought, no? Again, Western views are skewered by group acceptance of the contract that "bookkeeping entries" are representing real wealth. It's a fragile view that can be fractured from the competition of a less leveraged alternative. The Euro!------(Kindly note I am not diminishing the possible importance of the Euro as a competitor to the dollar, or that at some point the huge overhang of foreign held US dollars and the trade deficit will have an impact. --------- It is impossible for the production of any country to support it's currency if it's currency always flows "out" in a trade deficit. In this country, the negative effects of a reversal of this long term trend will bring on a dollar currency crisis that runs the price of gold well before local price inflation. This is the primary reason why recent investment profits will never transition into gold before it overtakes the illusion of these realized gains. This is the focus of our "reasoning" and push for the purchase of gold "before the fact". Gold will run well before price inflation is evident (in a large degree). And before resource stocks create an up-trend based on this performance. All in conjunction with a severe downturn in local equity markets that will overwhelm all forms of paper investments (gold stocks included). Yes, we may see minor runs in these areas prior to the crisis, but these moves will not be connected with the major bull market in gold that is coming. Thanks FOA Goldsun (01/01/00; 22:38:09MDT - Msg ID:22019) Y2K Relief Selloff CanamamiI agree with your suggested withdrawal of foreign money from US equities due to perception of Y2K as a nonevent. Which could have the benefit of producing a market crash before the effects of Y2K are felt.Interesting to see if fed starts sponging up its Y2K liquidity spill. Delay might indicate they don't believe it's over either.Goldsun Al Fulchino (01/01/00; 22:37:55MDT - Msg ID:22018) Thank you Peter. Peter Asher (01/01/00; 19:08:18MDT - Msg ID:22000)Today my wife and daughter and I were driving to the gym. It was an unusally warm upper 40's sunny day here in NH. My wife turned to me and said," This must be what it is like in Oregon this time of year." After I had visited Oregon this summer, I waited patiently for the wisdom on what to do. I really liked Oregon as did my daughter. I view the decision to stay here as being good for now. And as you say it was not an ill wind at all. I am grateful for what the year has brought. And as Robin says, it made me do a lot that I have put off.You and Robin would be good neighbors. canamami (01/01/00; 22:36:25MDT - Msg ID:22017) The gold "subculture" - Reply to Number Six, koan It seems that there is some similarity between gold affinciandos and old-fashioned, first-part-of-the-century leftists - the Stalinists expel the Trotskyites, who in turn start to expel each other and splinter into sub-groups over disputes of some sort - i.e., the International Socialists v. the Trotskyite League, etc. All the while, the internet/tech investors get rich. O, to redo my investments of the last 18 months!!! Number Six (01/01/00; 22:28:23MDT - Msg ID:22016) koan - GE But I've just been banned for posting on the Gold / Oil (hello FOA :o) ) "relationship"....Apparently Vronsky believes there is no relationship...!!!!!!! koan (01/01/00; 22:20:34MDT - Msg ID:22015) Where does Stranger post? Hi Canamami, can you tell me where the Stranger posts? Thanks. FOA (01/01/00; 21:19:45MDT - Msg ID:22014) Comment USAGOLD (01/01/00; 20:07:21MDT - Msg ID:22002)Series of posts....Hello USAGOLD, I have really enjoyed your recount of the Golconda writings. How true to modern life it is. Philosophically thinking about our present situation; the current run up in the stock market is a perfect end to a long play. This mad rush to buy anything at any price is indicative if a financial order run amuck. I am struck at how the same process is repeated again and again by our Fed, each time with greater intensity. Starting with the 1982 Mexican default and the Dow at 700+/-, the federal reserve pushes money into the system. Right into this present day, each and every possible threat to the dollar system is addressed with a more intense cash flood. Now the flood becomes outright and open with little consideration of the eventual repercussions. Yet, the entire population accepts this illusion as real wealth for the long term. Truly, a mass of deluded opinions ripe for reality. Further, I could not agree more with your #21977! In present time, the Washington Agreement has turned the "Thousand ton Gap" into a ticking time bomb. Even before the agreement, stocks of gold were being drawn down. I have often stated that this gap was being filled by private gold holders exchanging old line physical for derivatives. Because this process was backed by the CBs, there partial withdrawal from the business has set off a mad scramble in the BB camp. Far from the past official leasing announcements and sales, guarantees were hidden from view. This loss is the real story behind the market facade. The recent small official announcements to lend by other countries indicates that we are at the end of private stock supplies. I expect that the "gap" will now work it's magic in short order. How this will end in a pricing format is completely uncertain to many. The world has never had to wait out a transition from paper into physical. Usually, it's been the other way around (the dollar in 71). We watch for physical to move as paper becomes frozen. We shall see.Thanks FOA canamami (01/01/00; 21:08:25MDT - Msg ID:22013) Question re Remedies for US Breach of Contract This is open to the entire Forum, though it may be of particular interest to FOA.Is it possible to distinguish between pre-August 1971 Bretton Woods/gold-backed dollars and post-1971 dollars? It would seem that only those dollars which existed prior to August 1971 represent a breach of contract by the US. Further, even on a purely moral basis, given that the rest of the world accepted US dollars after the 1971 breach of contract, would such acceptance constitute a waiver of the breach, thereby nullifying even a moral claim to US gold? Moreover, it appears that by the early 1960's the world knew that the dollars outstanding exceeded the gold backing, yet the world continued to use the dollars? Again, the world accepted the US dollars knowing there was realistically no gold backing, thereby nullifying the moral claim. Does not the continued prominence of the US dollar reflect value to US currency which stems from more than mere "gold backing" or "acceptance for oil settlement"?(Kindly note I am not diminishing the possible importance of the Euro as a competitor to the dollar, or that at some point the huge overhang of foreign-held US dollars and the trade deficit will have an impact. I submit the Y2K non-event may lead to an outflow of dollars from the US market as the world recognizes no further need to hold dollars in the US as a Y2K technological safe haven, and this may trigger the long-overdue equity correction/crash - perhaps a NASDAQ crash and a major S&P/Dow correction.) JCTex (01/01/00; 20:59:08MDT - Msg ID:22012) FOA: end is closer than many think I may frame that and use it as a mantra. I, personally, do not see how the Comex price can do anything but go down. To begin with, WHO wants to buy on a market that cannot deliver on anything except more manipulation. You and Another have that one figured out.You mentioned your dad's statment about a bigger bully: I am mostly a lurker, but nearly entered MK's last contest in order to enter "The Washington Agreement" in ALL 5 categories. Any truth to the rumor that the Saudis gave the CBs an ultimatum concerning gold sales? canamami (01/01/00; 20:39:05MDT - Msg ID:22011) Y2K, the Stranger, Happy New Year Y2K was substantially a bust, at least up to now. My government's Y2K Co-ordinator asked us not to check out our phones at midnight. Why? So many people checked their phones for dial-tone in New Zealand, the system crashed not from Y2K, but from those who worried about Y2K. (i.e., the worriers overloaded the system by checking for dial-tones). Also, several cousins have "lost" their New Year's holidays because the government put them "on call" in case there were emergencies. My cousins are now convinced Y2K was a scam thought up by computer people looking for $800 a day consulting fees (said contracts continuing for several more months).For fans of the Stranger (of whom I am one), it appears his views on Y2K have been vindicated. (The Stranger still posts concerning gold elsewhere on the internet, for those who may wish to follow his views on the topic).Happy New Year to all! Number Six (01/01/00; 20:36:32MDT - Msg ID:22010) New Duck!!! Whoa! I like it, I like it...As a confirmed Ducatisti this has piqued my interest again, the Europeans really are at the cutting age of bike design now, especially the orgasmic new Aprilias and pretty much anything coming out of Italy.Reminds me of the old Halewood replicas, and the early BMW R90's...Way to go Ducati, way to go!Wonder if they'll take e-gold? :o) FOA (01/01/00; 20:36:19MDT - Msg ID:22009) Comment Golden Truth (01/01/00; 18:17:00MDT - Msg ID:21998)TO F.O.A---------------Golden Truth,No, G.T. I am the one who thanks you for telling us what you think and how you feel. And doing so without using a sword to try and cut my head off (as some have done)! Truly, all the success, wealth and social standings are lost if we as people cannot clearly air our thoughts without physical and verbal violence. No one can walk this gold trail without a modern, updated map. And no one can read this map without a good understanding of the road signs that daily events create. Further, human understanding is developed by allowing ourselves to weigh "reason", by viewing these new events as others see them. Not just accepting them in the light of past performance. Things change, life evolves and so too do the reasons and motives for gold. In this respect, oil influence has played a major roll in the evolution of our gold markets. Not to mention the birth and success of the Euro. There will be much more on this later.Thanks FOA FOA (01/01/00; 20:34:38MDT - Msg ID:22008) Comment mhchuck (12/31/99; 19:13:55MDT - Msg ID:21928)Just Another Squashed Bug.--------------------and----------mhchuck (12/31/99; 19:22:25MDT - Msg ID:21931)Do We Have Free markets?Yuk, Yuk, what an industry, if the price of the item they are producing rises...they all go bankrupt. Please come and get me, I'm ready for the nuthouse.---------------------Hello and welcome mhchuck, Well, if you have come this far down the gold trail, we might as well finish the hike. The end of this is closer than many think. My dad always said don't worry about the big bully in town. There is always someone bigger and tougher than him wait for the chance to ????? The same is true in the money power game. I never said that the Euro was not going to be a tough "dude". He is and he will work the dollar over with the help of gold. We are only pointing out (to the average person) that the timeline of the dollar is ending and the transition will be sudden and harsh on dollar asset holders. Truly, gold will not be an "innocent" bystander in this fight. It's historic power to break empires will certainly come into full use. Again, bullion will be the survivor with the most leverage in this battle. Yes, the gold mines will still have valuable reserves and be in full operation as this all unfolds. It's only the equity holdings of these "businesses" (not all, just most of them) that will be ransacked as the gold marketplace is up-ended.FOA SteveH (01/01/00; 20:33:07MDT - Msg ID:22007) Protecting gold Upon reading this you may conclude that this has nothing to do with gold. Au contraire. It has everything to do with it. Where the word gun exists, substitute the word gold. For example, register guns, register gold, loss of rights to guns, loss of rights to gold (gold seizure). You see my point?After a few days of reading I have come to the following observations about our Second Amendment Rights. If you boil down the issue to its most basic premise or what is called a priori (that which is the essence of the issue), the following comes to mind:-- Second Amendment is an individual right for the people to keep and bear arms, including CCW (carrying concealed weapons) in all locations. -- This right applies to voting age persons.-- Gun registration is ineffective and unconstitutional.-- Severe penalties for child access are not necessary and unconstitutional, including misdemeanor and felony penalties.-- Purpose of right to bear arms is because of British and early-American common and natural rights and their experience with governments who have attempted to remove these rights before attempting the removal of further rights.-- Founding fathers saw fit to make sure this didn't happen by including the already existing natural and individual right to keep and bear arms in the Bill of Rights.-- Children should be educated and trained as to the proper use of firearms in order to protect this most valuable of all rights, as it ensures that future generations of Americans will not usurp for convenience or expediency this right.-- The lack of a Supreme Court ruling on the individual right nature of the Second Amendment and judges and weapons boards who bow to the public health aspect of loss of life and limb versus strictly protecting the Second Amendment is causing serious harm to the right.-- The greatest enemy to the Second Amendment and to the American people is the attitude that the Second Amendment should have no cost in lives. The Public Health aspect of the Second Amendment and its perceived wanton loss of life from having a free and open right to keep and bear arms is becoming prevalent such that some naysayers would rather have zero loss of life than the individual and uninfringed right to keep and bear arms. That is NOT to say that the liberty interest of the Second Amendment should cost any lives, rather the American people must establish the liberty right above that of the cost in lives, while working on ways to reduce loss of life and limb, while NOT infringing at all on the Second Amendment individual right to bear arms. This is critical: there is a segment of our society that believes the Second has no place as long as there is loss of life. This is a most dangerous position, as its ultimate effect would be to guarantee the ultimate loss of many greater lives. The founding fathers knew that Arms had a cost to society but also knew that the liberty right of bearing of arms far outweighed that cost. This is a complete paradigm shift from current thinking as it places proper perspective on where the individual right to bear arms should be. To put this in perspective, automobiles cause great loss of life and limb and yet the Press no longer reports but exceptional losses, people accept the cost in lives, while government and drivers do try to be safer and reduce loss of life and limb. Do we remove the right to drive from people? Only when they are irresponsible or drunken. AND, the right to Drive is not a Constitutionally guaranteed right as the Second Amendment right to bear arms is. Again, the emphasis of loss of life and limb from guns needs to be placed second place to the right to bear arms. Otherwise, erosion of that most important right will continue. Put simply, today's anti-gun person has forgotten the reason they have the right to be anti-gun and to say so is because of the very existence of the Second Amendment. They are in a very dangerous downward spiral that will not stop with the Second Amendment. This and all rights in the Bill of Rights need be jealously protected. -- America is a formidable country because of the armed nature of each of its members. The totality of armament in the hands of all citizens makes this country great and protects it from those who wish to destroy the country from within or without. That is the exact meaning of the Militia part in the Second Amendment. In other words, you can not have an armed populace that stands ready to defend its rights, without the uninfringed right to bear arms. AND, that right has, does, and will cost innocent lives. Yes, non-infinging ways to reduce loss of life is essential, but should never be allowed to stand in the way of the Second Amendment. Unfortunatly, some of our leaders, judges, and law-enforcement persons have forgotten or refuse to recognize this, and that is how we find ourselves with more and more infringement, more and more bad press, more and more misunderstanding of what it is that makes America great. It is time for all American's to decide if their liberty is important and come to terms with the above.-- The Second Amendment should not be allowed to be whittled away at by regulations, rulings, and restrictions. In so doing, the chances of other rights being whittled away at are equally imminent. No, the only proper way to change the Amendment is by a new Amendment. Otherwise it should be hands off.-- The Courts find that the legislature, who is elected by the people, make laws that are constitutional, making the burden of proving a law or regulation is not constitutional that much harder. In order to rectify this situation, more people need to file formal complaints against those would choose not defend the Second Amendment. In addition, more people need to elect officials who support their views of the Second Amendment. -- Any official using the color of law to restrict or oppress the Second Amendment through regulation, restrictions, or rulings are guilty in some way of a violation of at least one Civil Rights violation. To view this differently, would a citizen stand to have their right to freedom of religion reduced by having to register their religous preference? What is so different about the Second Amendment? Is it that gun registration reduces the cost of lives? I firmly don't believe it does. Does gun registration infringe on the Second Amendment? You bet it does.-- Anti-gun proponents are using the risk to children to appeal and disfavor the Second Amendment. The Press has picked up on this is a big way. The Press has become one-sided on this and refuses to show the positive liberty aspect of the Second Amendment. This is tantamount to brainwashing, as the Press is known to have great influence on people. To choose only one side of an issue, to choose only to report shootings, especially those of or by children is to miss a whole other positive aspect of the liberty aspect of the Second Amendment. In fact, the Press receives an F for being patriotic, as they have forgotten or fail to mention the whole purpose of the Second Amendment. Death of children is tragic; so is trying to take away civil liberties. The Press needs to find a way to be constructive and patriotic. They must protect the Second Amendment by first understanding its true purpose, educating people to that purpose then find constructive ways to reduce loss to life and limb but in a fashion that in no way destroys the very right that allows them the freedom to speak their minds. It is naive to think that the liberty of the keeping and bearing arms in favor of a strong nation should come secondary to the social cost of same. Again, not that the social cost can and should be reduced but let the Press and the people not become so naive or complacent to realize this.-- People who have not experienced crime do not understand that law enforcement is there more to deter crime but can not stop it nor can they save everyone. Often, persons must protect themselves until help arrives. If that help is slow in coming, then people are on their own. It is a natural right of people to protect themselves equally, force against force. Since our society chooses to be armed, then armed the citizens should be, if they so choose. To believe removing guns from the peoples hands will only result in removing guns from good peoples hands. -- Anyone who has been arrested soley for possessing a gun for self-protection oddly could be considered political criminals in that they are the victim of a laws that have breached the Second Amendment. In proportion as the these crimes increase, the Second Amendment becomes further eroded. By right, no restriction of the right to keep and bear arms should have ever been permitted. That this is so is a testimony to erosion already having taken place. That is not to say that the Second Amendment can not have restriction or rules, but these need to be made in according with the individual right that it is, just as criminals are guaranteed their right to trial, their to counsel. It isn't popular but is is still a right.-- Concealed carry and open carry are both manifestations of the right to bear arms. Concealed carry is currently the more accepted, as open carry of weapons often arouses undo suspicion and delay by biased arrests. Yet, concealed carry is the most contraversial as persons with hidden guns are often considered acting like criminals, when they are in fact merely excercising a natural right that existed even prior to its listing in the individual Bill of Rights to the US Constitution.-- Concealed weapons boards do not have a Constitutional right to deny law-abiding citizens concealed weapons permits. Law-abiding citizens have the right to bear concealed weapons, but may choose not to. Their choice, not the boards. Black Blade (01/01/00; 20:31:29MDT - Msg ID:22006) Good to see everyone alive and kickin' Just blew into town and thought that I would poke my head in here. Well now we made it through the roll-over. Hopefully no major problems on monday when everyone fires up for the new year and no major problems from embedded systems develop. I see that Holtzman has signed up! Now I have my work cut out for me. I have over a weeks worth of reading to catch up on. All in all, things don't look too bad. Happy new years all! RAP (01/01/00; 20:29:49MDT - Msg ID:22005) Goldsun True inflation:I bought my first Ducatti in 1966 for $1250, a slight increase in price? Goldsun (01/01/00; 20:21:08MDT - Msg ID:22004) Euro Roars Into New Year http://www.ducati.com/MH900e/ astride outrageous new Ducati motorbike.Ducati is selling this wild limited production model in a wild new way. You place your order on the web, even though the bike is delivered to the nearest dealer. And the price will be the same everywhere in the world -- 15,000 euros!Rock and EuRoll!Goldsun Number Six (01/01/00; 20:14:41MDT - Msg ID:22003) This post was pretty much addressed to me as one of the prime gold advocates on TB2K Those thinking y2k 'is over' have no idea what they are talking about. Here's one reason why. Several months ago (mid-November) I attended a financial conference as a presentor for our start-up company and happened to meet Robert J.(Bob) Leuver. Bob is not a well known figure but was the number 2 man at the Treasury dept under Reagan (he was head of the Bureau of Printing and Engraving). Anyway, it was clear that he is well connected to this day. His testimony to Congress is not uncommon and he *often* consults with central bankers, especially in South and Central America. His area of greatest expertise is obviously banking. He did not expect bank runs before the end of the year. He felt that the American banking system was in very good shape overall. Here is his one word assessment of the banking sector in South and Central America: toast. According to *his assessment* - all the banks of South and Central America are toast and are going down hard. He stated this as fact, without hedging. No inuendo. Just a simple statement. "All of those banks there who say they have even begun to get ready, and that's not many, are 'not reporting accurately' (not his words for what they are doing - I softened them). Their financial system is going to collapse." I emphasize that this is his assessment because, like any human being, he could be wrong. It is interesting that he believes the big money center banks will be *better* off. (Contrary to Gary North). Why? Because Citicorp, for example, has it's own office in the foreign city. They can sever all ties with the national banks and still do business. That alone would collapse the economy there, he affirmed, but since it's collapsing already, the nations will be grateful that Citibank in, for example, Buenos Aires, keeps its doors open. (I suspect that the angry people will look for a 'foreign devil' scapegoat to blame and so burn down the Citibank office, but that's just *my* speculation.) He thinks xxxxxx Bank (a large regional US bank), for example, will be in horrible shape because they have a lot of money loaned in those countries but no way to collect it except through the national bank. Each transaction they do in those countries is totally dependent on a functioning national bank. Ooops! He does not think we will be able to reliably get *anything* from South or Central America next year and, for some reason, mentioned car parts a couple times. (But that won't affect us, right pollies?) And here's one for you Andy: The biggest buyers of the British Gold in the previous to last sale were the Chinese. They bought almost all of it. The Europeans did not like that and that was one of the reasons they decided to curtail the sales of CB gold. Robert J. Leuver, formerly the #2 man at the Treasury, recommends the purchase of gold. Hmmmm, it seems Andy is in good company. Now, what does the potential collapse of these banks mean? The reader can draw his or her own conclusions. My assessment is that, if true, this will be substantially bigger than the "Baht crisis" which, as you may recall, initiated the Asian crisis and nearly caused a worldwide financial meltdown. (Which of you can honestly say you even knew what a "Baht" was before that crisis?) Pollies are gloating, "no bank has collapsed yet". Stupid pollies. Someone should buy them a clue. And perhaps those 'embarrassed' at having prepped should buy a clue as well. (Lots of hunger during the Great Depression - your preps may yet serve you exceedingly well.) Further, take a look at the SEC filings for any major bank. Exposure in Latin America is *huge* (much bigger than Russia or CIS). What will the impact be? The reader may draw whatever conclusions seem reasonable. Here's another tidbit. A friend of mine recently started a new hedge fund. It's a small fund - only about $100 million. He is clearing through xxxxxxx brokerage. When he 'signed up' he was asked, "How much leverage do you want? Two times?" He paused. "Four times?" Pause. "Ten times?" (His pause was due to shock.) He took 'some' leverage. My point is, the whole system is leveraged far beyond what most people would guess even in their *wildest* speculation. This, my friends, is why y2k did, and *still does* scare the caca out of the Fed. They are trying to drown their sorrows in liquidity (but may soon need to turn to booze.) The liquidity injection has of course made the situation worse - much worse. The Fed has brought us to the edge of a very high cliff. Now, in the new millenium, we are ready to step forward. The market has been on a wild rampage. It may continue for a few more days, but I speculate that the life of this bull is measured in days, not months. Once it goes there will be no stopping it. The unwinding will be unlike anything ever before witnessed on this planet. I expect the system to effectively seize up, not from y2k glitches, but simply because there is such an indescribable dislocation in place that a controlled return to 'normalcy' is impossible. Greenspan has not allowed the market to purge itself of excesses in what would be a painful but relatively controlled manner. The infusion of capital beginning in the Fall of '98 was politically, not economically motivated. This infusion has not only continued unabated but has accelerated sharply through the end of this past year. (The Fed is very afraid, but not of power outages!) My point: don't put that cash stash of yours into a terminally ill bull. I think his rage is the result of a large brain tumor. Now, if banks in Latin America do fail, don't expect it to happen in one day and don't expect it to hit Reuters by Monday afternoon (or for weeks/months/ever). I'm certain, however, that by noon on Monday the pollies will be claiming that the banking system is 'fine'. Stupid pollies. As for my own expectations, Gary North would classify me as an optimist because I have in my portfolio the most digital of all assets: puts (S&P 500, LSZ series). The purchase of these was 'optimistic' because it posits the survival of enough infrastructure that being correct has meaning. I need power, the exchanges to function, a reasonably intact banking system and the ability to buy something with any $'s I may receive. So far so good. P.S. I had a can of hash for lunch. Yummy! -- Me (me@me.me), January 01, 2000 USAGOLD (01/01/00; 20:07:21MDT - Msg ID:22002) Series of posts.... The "Once in Golconda" posts below are extracted from the book of the same name published in 1969 by Harper & Row and written by John Brooks. For some reason my end notes did not end up on the board.My purpose is to bring to light the extraordinary parallels between the cultural and market phenomena of 1929 and the present. Manias, it seems, have similar characteristics no matter the era. It's like deja vu all over again.To be continued..... USAGOLD (01/01/00; 19:57:16MDT - Msg ID:22001) Once in Golconda... "All through the days and long into the evenings, the talk, talk, talk goes on. There are tales of fortunes just made and of fortunes about to be made -- above all talk of fortunes. There is not talk of panic; the spring crisis is in the past now, brokers' loans are soaring faster than ever but that is considered healthy now, there is no money squeeze and call money has settled back to a reasonable 6 or 7 percent. The market averages stand 34 percent above the March low and 76 percent above early 1928. When on the ninth of the month (August,1929), the New York Federal Reserve raises its rate to 6 per cent nobody pays much attention; the Fed is a figure of fun now. There is constant talk about the new investment trusts, Blue Ridge and Alleghany, Shenandoah and United Corporation and hundreds more, that are the latest thing in stocks, a billion a half dollars worth of new ones put on the market since January; paper companies with staffs of only half a dozen people, existing merely to hold and trade in the stocks of other companies, most of them elaborately designed to 'move fast' by the application of 'leverage' to their structure, they are considered flimsy and over-speculative by some, but why should they be? Weren't Alleghany and United sponsored by that pillar of conservativism, J.P. Morgan & Company, and hasn't Alleghany gone up from its February offering price of 20 to 56, United from its January offering price of 25 to 73? There is talk about John J. Raskob's article in that month's 'Ladies Home Journal' entitled 'Everybody Ought To Be Rich,' in which he explains how savings of $15 a month wisely invested in stocks will do the trick in twenty years, and talk about whose shares it lists, has just declared a 'stock dividend' to its members -- one fourth of a seat to each holder of one. There are jokes about well-fed, broad-beamed Exchange members needing a seat and a quarter each, these days.Money is king -- but there is something else. It is a high, wild time of riotous spirits and belief in magic rather than cold calculation, a time of Dionysius rather than Apollo. People speak of 'luck' and 'the breaks' more than of earnings and dividends. They have given up their month at the lakes and beaches not in the puritanical spirit of 'business first' or 'come labor on,' but in the hedonistic spirit of living more fully and not missing life's chances. It is almost as if they believed the market existed for taking chances not on money but on happiness." Peter Asher (01/01/00; 19:08:18MDT - Msg ID:22000) Al Fulchino (01/01/00; 17:48:22MDT - Msg ID:21997) As much as we would have liked to have you for a (Almost) neighbor, I'm glad you did't invest in closing up shop and moving the whole kit and kabbodle out here. That would have been a bit much considering how it all fell out.Robin was just saying that alot of things she's been putting off doing for 20 years, got done because of the high necessity level. She also pointed out that if food prices shoot up we'll all have made a good investment.Not an Ill wind, was it? USAGOLD (01/01/00; 18:25:37MDT - Msg ID:21999) Once in Golconda "Many of those now crowding Wall Street have burned their bridges. They have thrown over their jobs on reaching some predetermined goal, a paper net worth of $50,000 or $100,000 or $200,000; they have bought expensive houses and mink coats for themselves or their wives, and look forward to lives of leisure and affluence spent at this easy and entertaining game. Moreover, in their short time on Wall Street they have come to feel a sense of belonging there; the scars on Morgan's (from an anarchist bombing) are 'their' scars and the grave of Hamilton in Trinity Churchyard is 'theirs.' They have a new life and, if they wish, they can even partake of the very symbol of belonging. The most change-resistant institutions, the urban club, has gone democratic on Wall Street; luncheon clubs, most of them no more than six months old, are everywhere, ranging from fancy cafes to one-arm counters in bare rooms, and membership is just a matter of knowing somebody -- anybody -- and paying a fee.At lunch hour the streets of the district are jammed from building line to building line. Even at the height of the morning and afternoon business hours the streets are full of pedestrians, talking, gossiping, shouting to make themselves heard over the din of the new office building construction going on everywhere. But at noon the crowds on the streets grow so thick that no car can pass, and the constructions sounds are stilled for the workmen's lunch break. A visitor from England, charmed by the silence broken only by talk and footfalls, is reminded of Venice. He finds the atmosphere 'savagely exciting,' and as an outsider watching the performance of a rite he does not understand, he feels loneliness and a certain alarm. He is not reassured when his American friend and guide breaks into a cool explanation of Wall Street and the American business to say, abruptly and cryptically, 'All the same, I don't really believe it.'" Golden Truth (01/01/00; 18:17:00MDT - Msg ID:21998) TO F.O.A Hi F.O.A, thanks for being so very candid, and taking the time to respond to me! One thing i would like to say right off the bat, is that "i am" only a physical GOLD holder. I bought physical @ $290/oz almost a year ago after reading "your" posts and Anothers posts on GOLD for Oil. I then bought more in the $280-270 range and due to all the ongoing negativity we saw in the GOLD market in the summer of 1999! I stood by helplessly and watched the price nosedive to the $253 range. I could of cried every single day! I do remember you saying that one would need "intestinal fortitude" or strength, because at that time, it was "thought" the P.O.G was going down to $200/oz, remember that? You know, in hind sight you were right, it probally would have, if it wasn't for the suprise announcement. A.K.A the "Washington Agreement" I,am sorry if i've been hard on you, but its because i believe in you so much! I've also convinced others to believe in you! and they also only have purchased physical GOLD. Let me share this with you, firstly my Uncle@ 25oz's, next two guys i work with 10oz's each, and one is looking to buy alot more! He also thanked me for getting him into GOLD WOW eh! Now lastly myself, wait for it, a whole 38oz's. For a total of 83oz's of pure 24k GOLD. So you see F.O.A your words carry alot of weight and in GOLD yet. Whether you know it or not, alot of people due really look up to you in this New GOLD market.Also in reviewing "Anothers" posts i've begun to wonder or notice that his focus was mostly on "OIL for GOLD" in the beginning. Where as now we tend to focus on the "EURO and GOLD". Which for me is alot more complicated, but i never give up trying to understand it all! To make a long story short, what is going on in the OIL for GOLD realm these days? Is it as Another said it was some 2 years ago in the book "IN THE FOOTSTEPS OF GIANTS" or is it back to business as usual? Sorry for being hard on you, but owning GOLD and having someone telling you that it is priced way below its true value and at any minute or day it all could come undone. Is the equivalent of a very beautiful Woman that is classy, refined, educated, well traveled and smart saying "You can have me, but you must always do just one more thing" before the big day! Very frustrating indeed, but usally worth it? I feel this is the point at which alot of male GOLD owners are at, i,am sure you can feel my frustration also F.O.A (Big Smile) :-) God bless you and i trust the Holidays and Santa was good to you! G.T Al Fulchino (01/01/00; 17:48:22MDT - Msg ID:21997) No reason to doubt ourselves Many have awakened to wonder why they planned for y2k. I am not one of them. People who purchase gold and / or purchase food and supplies were indeed the smart ones. They are not all doom and gloomers, instead they are optimists. They are usually people of perception. They are usually people with decent morals. They are the neighbors I want around me. There were indeed consequences if the y2k bug was not worked on. Those who think this through do understand this. In fact, those who laughed at y2k and the people who prepared should be kissing all the rear ends of those who sounded any alarm at all. They should be thanking the corporate executives who decided to spend millions on this issue. Those same executives, who said fixing it WAS important, kept the stock value of their respective companies and the profitability of the companies in the black. I say thank you to all of those who cared. Instead it is our turn to laugh at the naysayers if we so choose.I now have a very respectable financial security blanket, based on my gold and silver purchases, around my family and me. I have food and many other items that will serve useful purposes when I so choose. I also have an interesting perspective as a retailer of a much sought after resource as some of you here know.This past week I got to observe the wise make final preparations, as well as the "newly concerned" ( formerly known as naysayers make those just in case purchases. In their faces, I saw doubt inside with a smile on the outside. They didn't need the extra stop at my stations. They chuckled about how silly y2k was and how nothing was going to happen, BUT they came anyway. They would normally be doing something else. They came and bought. They went home and told their wives to buy a bit extra. Deep inside they too wondered. My sales were up 50% for the last two weeks, day in and day out they came. They came and filled tanks that hadn't seen a full tank in years, ones that had holes in them and leaked all over my lot. They came with shopping carts filled with gas cans. I got to see all the people who would be dangerous to me if a crisis were to have developed. So I thank those who warned. I thank those who prepared. I thank those who worked on a fix. And I caution that we take note that this is only half time. There are still weeks in front of us that may indicate some problems have not shown themselves yet.PS. By the way, we just gave away a canal. Celebration anyone? Mr Gresham (01/01/00; 16:28:07MDT - Msg ID:21996) TB2000 Forum http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a.tcl?topic=TimeBomb%202000%20%28Y2000%29 P.S. Don't miss it today -- it is really rich! Probably for another two weeks or so, also, if you want to wrap up your y2k story with the full roster of bugs that are being outed.Also SangersReview.com (no "www") has a good ongoing filter of harder news, and checks out the rumors pretty well. USAGOLD (01/01/00; 16:24:52MDT - Msg ID:21995) Once in Golconda... "The days (of August, 1929) are cool and dry; Goldconda's climate lacks the usual seasonal sniff of Hell. Not only do the regulars stay in town; necomers have arrived in great numbers. These are men and women who are sacrificing their own vacations, or else have simply chucked their jobs, to spend their days sitting, or more likely standing, in the brokerage customers' rooms watching the quotation board report the glorious news, and to share in the beneifts. They arrive early to read the brokerage houses 'morning letters' informing them confidently which stocks will rise how much that particular day, which will be 'taken in hand' by a pool at what hour, which companies have favorable news to come out shortly. By Stock Exchange opening time, all along Wall and Nassau, Broad and Broadway and Pine, the customers' rooms are jammed -- there is standing room only and perhaps not even that, there is a premium on positions from which the quote board can be seen. Still, they all are sure it is worthwhile being there, right on the scene; they feel themselves part of something tremendous, and perhaps, too, they feel their physical presence on Wall Street makes them insiders, gives them some slight advantage over those who are maintaining vigil elsewhere -- the barber or chauffeur or cab driver whose ear is cocked for a tip his important client might let fall, even the important man himself who has given up his vacation not in substance but only in spirit, and, sacrificing a seat in the sun, is glued all day to one in an office in Bar Harbor or Newport or Southampton or in a Catskill Mountain hotel. Brokerage house branches have suddenly made their appearance at every important resort, and the wires between them and their home offices hum all summer long."To be continued.....Once in Golcondaby John Brooks, 1969 Mr Gresham (01/01/00; 15:59:47MDT - Msg ID:21994) Hoot of the Century (Which One?) http://stand77.com/wwwboard/board.html The Y2k Debunkers' website, devoted to hounding and harassing and jamming the TB2000 website, can't display their posting dates correctly. They show 1/01/100.Happy New Year, all. Now we can get on down to basics! Let's see if anyone will join in. FOA (01/01/00; 14:42:33MDT - Msg ID:21993) Comment Golden Truth (12/31/99; 15:09:49MDT - Msg ID:21912)Paranoid Thinking Runs Amuck Here!Now a year later i still have an enormous amount of respect for your knowledge about Gold. Yet, I still respectfully say, the World markets are just to big and to unpredictable for one person to know with any certainty.------------------Hello Golden Truth, Reading all of your post tells me the (non physical) gold markets have been rough on you. I can understand your feelings if you can grasp what groups we are talking to. All of Another's Thoughts and my comments are directed toward "physical gold owners and by extension "physical gold advocates". These people have read all of these ongoing posts (some have been involved privately long before the current "gold forums stage") and know the thinking is strategic as it applies to a moving, evolving political target! Each group of posts are but a snapshot in time as it applies to this changing chess game. Yet, the end results remains the same, the destruction of our present pricing system for gold, a huge increase in the dollar price of physical gold, the eventual use of gold a Euro reserve settlement currency along with the new free market that must evolve with it. "Physical Gold Advocates", such as I (and readers) have brought gold from the high $360s into the low $280s because of this ongoing timeline of events. A timeline that is now quickly being depleted as the Euro builds it's position in the world. I submit, we are not hurting in any comparable way as our gold holdings are in a good large proportion to our total assets. And certainly our asset values have not been impacted as the gold derivatives players have (gold stocks included). When behind the stage power plays are in progress, the possible short term outcome is presented. Yet, it is presented with the knowledge that readers will think bullion, not derivatives. As such, if the chess game moves into another stage, no hard loses are taken by anyone. ALL: The historical record of physical gold alone is enough to justify a real gold holding. I add that the record for mining shares and the other leveraged derivatives are lacking in their long term comparison. These items are as new and peculiar to the modern investment scene as is the current dollar "off the gold standard"! Players often tout these paper investments to be as good as gold, yet they are truly only as good as the dollar marketplace for gold! Still, I own some gold shares (gold), but only in a small proportion. We conclude that the coming bull market in gold will be unlike anything before it. Today, the leverage is in physical gold, not paper gold. This latter day track record of derivatives, gold stock options, gold options, gold stocks, etc. all clearly demonstrate this changing function. The horrendous ongoing, long term loses, built up by these paper bull traders is evident. With each downturn, they search for greater and greater leverage, in a attempt to return to "even". All the while, the bullion buyer slowly amasses a large "highly leveraged" position, just by channelling his would be trading loses into paid up physical and rare gold coins. One day, the dollar paper gold markets will be driven into "Force Majeure", during a transition from the current dollar reserve system. With each political announcement, the stress on the London market will grow. We know this position and understand it well. Yet, no one can guess when the last bullion delivery will spell the end for paper credibility. I only offer the month by month level of stress and how it may impact bullion. As for this Y2K item. I fully acknowledged it potential for impact on the dollar. Yet, in my posts, I offered my feelings that it would not be severe. Clearly, we have larger items to address that this.More later. FOA FOA (01/01/00; 14:40:22MDT - Msg ID:21992) Comment Cavan Man (12/30/99; 6:43:30MDT - Msg ID:21838)Hello FOA and, Many ThanksPlease consider this:I am 42. Will I live to see it and perhaps enjoy the knowledge that I made the right decision???????????Cavan Man, 42? Oh boy, I didn't know you were so old! Well, at that age one should be careful with your body. Get plenty of rest, eat well and take your vitamins. If lucky, one could live another 40 or 50 years! (big smile) Seriously, it was so long ago that I passed that age I lost the records. And for the record, I know I'll see this gold change. So, all in all, you don't have to live long enough to see the next gold bull, "you just have to outlive me"!! Ha Ha (huge great big smile!)Happy new year CMan. THX-1138 (01/01/00; 14:28:11MDT - Msg ID:21991) Y2K bit spy satelites http://www.drudgereport.com/matt.htm XXXXX DRUDGE REPORT XXXXX SAT 01/01/00 14:00:09 ET XXXXX PENTAGON: SPY SATELLITE SYSTEM IN Y2K FAILURE, DATA LOST FOR HOURS; WHITE HOUSE TOLD DURING CELEBRATION The Pentagon experienced one "significant" Y2K failure on New Year's Eve, Deputy Defense Secretary John Hamre said on Saturday."We did have one significant problem, one that I had wished we hadn't had, but we did... One of our intelligence systems, a satellite- based intelligencesystem, experienced some Y2K failures last night shortly after the rollover of Greenwich Mean Time."Hamre revealed that for a period of 2 hours, officials at the Pentagon Officials lost their ability to monitor all data from the spy satellite system."We were not able to process the information that the satellites were sending to us," Hamre told reporters.And on the morning after the night before, the system was still "operating at less than our full peacetime level of activity," Hamre said. MORE... "The satellites were always under positive control," Hamre explained. "At no time were we ever without positive control over the space assets. "Our problem actually was here on the ground, in the processing station. We were able to adopt backup procedures, which had indeed been planned andrehearsed, and they are in place right now as we're working through the final details."Word that the Y2K bug had left the Pentagon temporarily blinded, reached the White House at the height of New Year's Eve celebrations, the DRUDGE REPORThas learned. Shortly after 9 pm ET on Friday, the White House was informed of the satellite data jam, according to one well-placed source.However, White House officials publicly maintained throughout out the night that there had been no "serious" Y2K events or disruptions. MORE..."I won't be able to speak much to the details of it because of the sensitive nature," Deputy Secretary John Hamre said of the intelligence breakdown. "I am not sure that we will ever be able to give you a full report of what happened." Hamre added: "It was only for a matter of a few hours when we were not able to process information. We are now. And we'll be back to normal operations verysoon." END. Peter Asher (01/01/00; 14:27:54MDT - Msg ID:21990) Goldy Locks Guy (1/1/00; 12:24:20MDT - Msg ID:21983) Many mortgages have clauses that stipulate payment if the Value of the property drops below the balance owed.Also, many unsecured loans along wtith some mortages, have a clause that requires payoff if the borrowers credit worthiness deteriorates. Most people don't read the fine print or consider the consequences of the clauses, believing the liability won't occur. --- As in the case of Ashanti Mines! Gandalf the White (1/1/00; 14:05:41MDT - Msg ID:21989) Canuck's Story #21987 The Hobbits LOVED your story from twenty years ago, BUT have one question --- Do you mean to say that your partner stayed at the "hot" end of the raise to watch the fireworks while you took the ride down the adit a mile + away ? WOWSERS, he was a tough miner!! -- Another question, any misfires ? -- BTW, Wish I had a scanner to be able to post the pictures of how square my raises were from the good ol'e days. -- Especially the one with the streak of yellow stuff down the side. --- Good ol'e Quartz Hill !!<;-) Jon (1/1/00; 13:41:54MDT - Msg ID:21988) Happy New Year Stranger I miss your comments. Hope all is well with you and yours. Had a big laugh the other day when someone showed me Weiss' latest Y2k newsletter. He recommends shorting EWJ and I immediately thought of you. I've just about doubled my money on EWS. I believe your EWJ will out perform my EWS and I may switch. Any thoughts on this pls e-mail me Johmin@msnbc.com Canuck (1/1/00; 13:20:16MDT - Msg ID:21987) Is Y2K over? A mining story that might have parallels with Y2K.In the fall of '80 and the winter of '81 I worked in the bowels of the earth in a mining town in Northern Ontario. My partner was a robust little native, no more than 150 lbs. who ate nails for breakfast and rawmeat at night.Our job was to 'drive raises'. A raise is a little tunnel, about 6' x 6' rising at a predetermined angle following a gold vein. A vein is a highly rich gold ore deposit that can run through granite like a knife through a pound of butter. Each day my partner and I would climb up the 'raise' to the end of our little tunnel to meet the 'face' of the previous days 'blast'. Our job each day was to drill out a pattern of holes 6' x 6' x 8' to blast out a new cube of rich gold ore. We would follow the vein until some geologist genius figured the most concentratedarea had been reached and then a 'stope' team would come in. A 'stope' is a cavern, sometimes many miles under the earth, where high grade ore has been removed. No need to drill and blast granite, its the gold we were looking for. The drilling pattern for the cube in the raise is precise. I'm sure a dynamite expert or some genius in physics thought up the pattern. The 24 holes drilled started in the dead centre, in a dense cluster and as the holes moved away from the middle they moved further apart. At the outside perimeter the holes might be 2 feet apart whereas the centre holes were inches apart. The one whole in the middle was bored out to be about 3 inches in diameter; all others were about 1 inch. Each hole, except the giant centre was filled with dynamite and a blasting cap. The half a dozen or so holes surrounding Mr.Big had fuses timed for a 7 minute burn. The holes surrounding those were timed a second or two longer. As we move away from the middle each fuse is a second or two longer than the previous. The engineering behind the whole thing is as follows. The very centre holes blow first; it implodes onto the large bored hole creating a large hole maybe 6 inches in diameter. The next explosion implodes on a larger hole therefore the hole can be drilled further away. By the time a 4 foot hole has been blown out, elasped time maybe 10 seconds, the outside holes are blowing away 2 foot by 2 foot by 8 foot chunks of granite and gold weighing many, many tonnes. The noise is deafening, beyond explaining and extremely dangerous. The individual explosions can be heard miles away because the air and space is contained. My favorite thing to do was to light the main 'starter' fuse and wait, play chicken. I would wait a minute, a minute and a half and then run as if the devil himself was chasing me. A real intelligent thing to do, but hell, when you are 19 years old flirting with the devil was fun. I would race down the 'raise', jump on the little train/locomotive thing and drive like a madman. When I was a half -mile or so away I would light up a cigarette and wait. On the first mind-altering boom I would inhale a huge drag and puff a cloud of smoke in the air and shine my head-held light into it. The force of the explosion was so powerful the positive pressure would move the cloud of smoke exactly one foot away. The ensuing vacuum would then pull the cloud back to its originalposition. Twenty-three times the cloud would bounce back and forth; it was eerie.The point of this extremely long winded tale.I go back to the analogy painted by Number Six earlier; the birth of the cancer cell and the spread of it.The 'rollover' was the birth of the cell and we wait for the spread of the disease.The fuse has been lit, the first explosion will take time, a small fracture will ensue and then another and then another. Once the process has been started it will multiply, the cross-defaults, the calamities, the dominoes and the explosions. I cannot believe Y2K is done. Someone said 10% of computers have been exposed to the rollover; banks, business and government is still an unknown. What will Monday and new week bring?I am pleased beyond belief than the 'clock rollover' played little havoc with hydro and telephony, I am estatic that water is still available. I am relieved that millions, as Mr. McIntosh suggested, did not die with the rollover. I thank my God, and your God , and every other God we are okay today. I am not thoroughly convinced its over, I stand on guard, I hope you as well. DIRECTOR (1/1/00; 12:52:39MDT - Msg ID:21986) To All Do any of you fine people know if The Wall Street Underground has a website? And if they do, what the Link is for it. Thanks in advance for any help on this. Leigh (1/1/00; 12:40:39MDT - Msg ID:21985) Goldy Locks Guy Happy New Year, GLG! I don't really know the answer to your question. Perhaps a banking-savvy knight will be able to help you.Thank you, Scot, and Happy New Year to you, too. koan (1/1/00; 12:27:48MDT - Msg ID:21984) Stranger Happy new year everyone - here's to you Stranger. You were the best this forum ever had. Goldy Locks Guy (1/1/00; 12:24:20MDT - Msg ID:21983) Leigh...or someone, Can you explain this? >>>>>. Housewives spend their day waiting in lines at gas stations to fill up at $16.50 a gallon -- for regular. Latecomers at grocery stores feel lucky to buy bread for $15 a loaf & hamburger for $24 a pound. Grocery store shelves are nearly empty. Banks nation-wide begin to call in loans. The five largest US insurance companies announce they will not honour requests to cash in policies "until further notice.">>>>>Leigh, I have always wondered exactly what is meant by the Banks calling in loans....what does this mean? I've got a couple of credit card debts that i've been putting off paying because they are low interest rate and because I didn't want to spend my cash.Besides that point, I called my local bank and asked the manager if there was a situation when the issuing bank of the CC would have the right to force payment in full of the account. He said no unless the account was in default or something.Anyway, do any of you guys know if this is accurate? I suppose I should trust the Bank Manager, but I don't.Thanks......goldilocks guy Cavan Man (1/1/00; 12:16:09MDT - Msg ID:21982) USAGOLD I think your point about hubris is well taken. I see it evidenced most everywhere I look. Netking (1/1/00; 12:09:29MDT - Msg ID:21981) Financial Lessons of History http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_00/baron010100.html Interesting read above friends...As we head into the new year, going boldly where no man has gone before it's a good time to reflect.Gold will have it's place in the sun this year. The Dow should be a "Down" by about 30% by March 31st and gold should be heading north by then. White metals & oil will head south for a while shortly(sorry Sir number 6!). RAP (1/1/00; 11:58:33MDT - Msg ID:21980) One more cut I went to my local W.D. today and the MAC - ATM had a sign on it-- "OUT OF ORDER", seems it worked yesterday!Happy new year to all. Peter Asher (1/1/00; 11:38:30MDT - Msg ID:21979) A message on the Libertarian newsletter: Subject: <HACKER SITREP> Increase in firewall alertsI'm personally experiencing an increase in probes and port scanson our firewalls in the last 90 minutes.Lots of telnet and other port probes from arab and canadian ip's. Nightrider (1/1/00; 10:44:18MDT - Msg ID:21978) Remebering Stanger As many of you readers will remember, when, the topic of Y2K was the rage in this room The level headed Stranger was a Voice of reason and Confort to many of us Its, a shame, that his voice of reason can no longer be heard. USAGOLD (1/1/00; 10:35:52MDT - Msg ID:21977) To mhChuck and all....The "One Thousand Ton Gap" I remember Farfel lamenting the fact that the gold producers did not have the moxy to pull together as a cartel to keep gold off the market and thus buoy the price. Then when the cartellization (different source; same effect) occurred via the Washington Agreement, I was surprised that no one, not even Farfel, recognized it for what it was -- a signed agreement to keep gold off the market every bit as important as the OPEC Agreement -- in fact, a cartel. The price move from $255 to $330 which apparently many of our speculators missed was fueled by rampant fear among gold's detractors and unmitigated enthusiasm among gold's advocates responding to the appearance of that cartel. When the gas came out of our mini-balloon, gold still garnered a roughly 15% return over the three month period from September to present -- that's 60% on an annualized basis. The commentators at CNBC cannot stop bubbling and gurgling over the 20% return on the DJIA through 1999, but noticeably failed to give gold credit for a substantially better performance. This despite the fact that major gold firms also spend millions advertising on their network.Who caught that gold spike? Many. Including a large number of mega-Centennial clients who followed our simple formulation of buying on the dips -- no matter how catastrophic the opposing mainstream press and Wall Street's gold haters makes them appear. If you didn't catch the spike, or as a speculator you took losses in gold over the course of 1999, it was because your strategy (as a speculator) is flawed, not because of any inherent problem with gold itself. By the way, of the "many" who caught the spike, not one has called to sell!The way to capitalize on gold, from my point of view, has always been to purchase the physical in a steady program and hold it as a long term hedge against various economic/political events that might injure the overall portfolio. (I have always thought that options, futures, loan agreements and the like played into the hands of the oppposition and anyone who has discussed the subject with me knows how I feel about it.) For the life of me, I cannot understand these tirades against gold that it somehow kept one speculator or another from making a profit on internet stocks (for example). I have never suggested or have even come close to suggesting that 100% of one's portfolio should be in gold. In fact, I think the 10% to 30% formulation I've recommended based on your assessment (not mine) of the world economic/political situation is prudent beyond challenge. What an individual does with the other 70% is their business, not gold's (or mine for that matter). If you neglected to ride the internet crazy horse, that's your problem not gold's. I never been able to understand these strange connections, then again I've never been a gold speculator. Instead, I remain steadfast in my opinion of gold as the ultimate arbiter in the currency wars foisted upon us by our various national governments. In keeping with that, I continue to recommend long term gold accumulation as a form of sound and reliable money which serves as the ultimate savings vehicle and, unlike the dollar, has none of the attendant liablilities and reciprocal obligations. I believe that anyone who owns it under this rubric need not wait for price performance to gain some satisfaction, that satisfaction comes now in form of peace of mind and the sure knowledge you have done everything you can to protect your family (and yourself) from potential systemic failure. (I will return to this subject further down.)Now...onto something of a forecast for Gold2000..........Back to the Washington Agreement:In 2000, I think the fundamentals have changed in gold's favor. There is an inherent gap between gold supply and demand of over 1000 tons. That gap in years past has been filled by Forward Selling/Gold Carry Trade programs and Official Sector dishoarding. Both depend upon central bank co-operation for their sustenance. That rug has been pulled out from under the bullion banks in a very public show of disfavor by the central banks via the Washington Agreement. Keep in mind that when the Euro central banks came together on this agreement, they knew that it would jeopardize those gold loan positions at some of their own member banks, so they had to have done it with some larger end in mind. The drop in gold from $330 back to the $275 level had to do with the bullion banks scrambling and doing everything in their power to keep gold down while they unravelled the mess at Ashanti, Cambior and others that did not become public. Many mining companies are still in a cold sweat over this and can only hope that the bullion banks are successful in buying enough time to unravel the mess. They may not have the time. That is the message of gold's return to the $290 level. I see it as the secong leg in a long term breakout (perhaps the Elliott Wave Three) that won't materialize overnight but occur over an extended period of time (assuming there is no stock market crash.)I think the fundamentals are going to play a much more important role in gold's pricing next year than they have in the past decade with the central banks out of the supply picture. That one thousand ton gap will become an issue. Any of the anti-gold crowd that wants to stop a price rise runs the risk of pushing the price to a level that would generate huge physical purchases that probably cannot be fulfilled. At the mining companies, I would advise playing along with your bullion bank counterparties but buy the physical whenever you can (as Goldfields has done) because you might not be able to rely on your favorite bullion bank when the chips are down. (Just ask the people over at Ashanti) As a matter of fact, they tend to dig into your asset structure when things go bad and then offer you "more time" as a salve to arrest the bleeding. Of course, the next step, should the price continue higher, will be more bleeding, but let's not talk about that.At the end of the year, we were in the market for a substantial number of gold coins at the behest of a client and not one supplier could make immediate delivery. (The transaction was not completed for reasons I can't go into here.) And when you consider the amount of gold that is supposedly transacted daily, our needs would have to be considered small. We have heard repeated stories of the lack of large amounts of bullion available for purchase among the big players and this despite the appearance of significant bullion from Kuwait, Holland, Jordan, Britain and others. When these various hoards come on the market, forget the source, they disappear into the black hole of physical short covering. These hoards have not sent the price reeling downwards. They've only acted as a temporary suppressant psychologically, then disappeared.In essence, I see this up move at the end of the year, not as Y2K related upon reflection, but the fundamentals coming into play. Many are asking the same question I am: How is this 1000 ton gap going to be filled and at what price? We know about 300 will come from Euro banks according to the agreement. Where will the other 700 come from with the official sector and the carry trade essentially shut down, or at least substantially subdued? I believe it will have to come out of the ground and I think that will occur at prices that ratchet every higher as the year progresses, though we could have something of a down draft at the beginning of the year.Once in Goldconda:mhChuck makes the point that Mr. Greenspan and Wall Street have essentially pulled off the New Paradigm and there is nothing to stop the current Era of Good Feelings from extending to infinity. He goes on to list to list a series of governmental policies that flaunt the power government seems to exert over the economy these days without even the hint of a consequence. But, mh, history is replete with examples of even the mightiest empires turning to salt in what seems to be the blink of an eye. One day things are fine; the next not so fine. How does this happen? It would not be trite to say that in each instance destruction of the currency was involved, however, I would say it goes much deeper than that.The ancient Greeks dealt with this phenomena often in their tragic literature -- the counterpoint of power and failure. Human arrogance was always rewarded with a reminder from the gods as to who was really in control. Even the mightiest king or emperor, kingdom or empire could fall as easily, quickly and completely as the lowliest citizen -- a victim of "The Fates". It is not you or me who will bring down the New Paradigm, or even the acts of the greatest economic and political thinkers of our era. It will fall by its own arrogance.... on Hubris, as the Greeks called it -- the vain act of contemptuously assuming the mantle of the gods. And I say this not because I "want" it to happen. I say it because I believe it "will" happen -- no matter how much I do to prevent it, to speak out against it, or to warn against its eventuality. All I can do is prepare for it by adding to my gold holdings and then going about living my own life in the best manner possible. In this way, I act on my beliefs and I am happier for it. (And I still have plenty left to invest in internet stocks if I want to.) "Golconda, now a ruin, was a city in southeastern India where, according to legend, eveyone who passed through got rich. A similar legend attached to Wall Street between the wars." From "Once in Golconda" by John Brooks 1969I might add that a similar legend attached to Wall Street after the end of the Cold War....More some other time.....MK beesting (1/1/00; 10:11:50MDT - Msg ID:21976) Officially in the U.S. it's January 1, 19,100. http://abc.net.au:80/news/newslink/nat/newsnat-1jan2000-92.htm For a good laugh, check it out.....beesting. The Scot (1/1/00; 10:07:22MDT - Msg ID:21975) Thanksgiving Today I am thankul that the world seems to have met it's current problem and may have overcome it.I am also very thankful to have learned so much from the great minds that share their knowledge here at this esteemed site and to our host who makes this all possible.I am very proud of those who prepared for the unknown and did all they could to insure the safety and well being of their family in spite of the harassement of friends and neighbors. You did the right thing.I am especially proud of the single mothers and military wives who in some cases had to do this on their own. This event has shown to us the power we have to communicate together via this medium to help and encourage oneanother.I still believe the year 2000 will present problems for many around the world. Let us continue to share knowledge and try to uphold the courage and character worthy of "Knights of the Table of Truth".Happy New Year to all, God Bless. The Scot Number Six (1/1/00; 9:59:35MDT - Msg ID:21974) elevator guy @pak stock exchange @canuck This is not quite true, no crash - an urban legend!Should be fun and games watching the worlds banks talk to each other next week...we have the problem of corrupt data sloshing around - this will need to be contained and isolated quick should it rear it's ugly head...clearing and settlement will also need to be working at 100% - no errors allowed...we'll see...CanuckGood advice for your Son! My best to you and yours!Oil looks to be heading south as of now - however it's very early days, again, we'll see... Journeyman (1/1/00; 9:23:35MDT - Msg ID:21973) One of those thousand (tiny) cuts . . . Hmm! My old 486 (running Windows 98) & checked out as "compliant" thinks it's Jan. 4, 1980. It knew what the date was when I hit the sack last night.Regards, J. elevator guy (1/1/00; 8:55:34MDT - Msg ID:21972) Last post before I take a walk, really, I promise! One thing that does not seem to have made it past the rollover is Jim Lord's website!!!!!!Anyone else notice this? Maybe the server is busy with Polly chat! elevator guy (1/1/00; 8:49:22MDT - Msg ID:21971) @ Peter Asher, msg id # 21959 I attempted to call the Council Bluffs Airport, in Iowa, and although it rang, no one picked up. Of course, they could just be super busy, but-This would lend credence to the greenspun report of communication loss.Council Bluffs Airport- 712-328-4682Dont everybody call at once! elevator guy (1/1/00; 8:41:05MDT - Msg ID:21970) Pakistani Stock Exchange, Y2K? IT was reported here earlier this morning, that the Karachi Exchange had crashed. I assume this means an electronic glitch, and not the value of the indices themselves.After doing a Yahoo seach, loaded the FASCOM page, and all the info is from December 30!!Does anyone know if this is typical updating for that site?Two days behind? Something would seem amiss here.Anyone? elevator guy (1/1/00; 8:31:25MDT - Msg ID:21969) //Calling Michael Kosares, come in, Michael, over// Happy New Year to you, our gracious host. "Live long and prosper".Thank you for your forum, and all the blessing it has been to me.The most signifigant development in my life, from this site, has been that my eyes have been opened, from many posters, as to just how hollow and bankrupt our fiat money system is. This knoledge will prepare me as we head into a year that will likely see a major, albeit possibly gradual, correction in the stock indices. The real kiker for me was when one poster, (I cant remember his name) said that the stock markets have been growing by huge percentages, but the growth of our economy has only been a couple of a percent. This is a very good argument, to support the existence of gravity!On the tube, we watched celebbrations from around the world, including the Pepsi Center, in Denver. Were you there to catch Neil Diamond sing? Didnt see you in the audience!!!Best Regards, and best wishes for the new year. FOA (1/1/00; 8:24:33MDT - Msg ID:21968) Comment Good day everyone! Looks like the world will have a chance to move on with life without any of these Y2K problems. Good! There will be enough monetary action to follow and understand without the added impact of computer control problems. Jeff (of USAGOLD) good job keeping the system up. And while I'm at it, good job to all the other thousands of dedicated computer professionals who made the turn over work. Michael, TownCrier, ORO and everyone, our golden century begins today. Preordained to be in our financial future by the planers of tomorrow. I'll do some thinking ,writing and make replies later. Thanks ALL FOA Canuck (1/1/00; 7:47:50MDT - Msg ID:21967) Number Six Good morning, 9:30 eastern.I have scanned the forums, yes, you are correct. There are dozens of little 'cuts' emerging; the bleeding MAY start.I watched that 'goobtube' all day yesterday, was dumbfounded by the superficial take, the fact that every major city had fireworks bothered me. I said to the girlfriend, "Why does every city have explosives and dynamite ... seems ironic?" My 12 year son blurted, "Dad, they all look (the fireworks) like Desert Storm." Still haven't heard or seen a single 'bit' from M-E or Venezuala.(sp?) Keep us posted Sir Number Six; you ARE the(oil) man.Safe New Years to all.Thanks for the advice Leigh. My fishing advice to my son when he gets one on the line; don't give him any slack buddy, let your guard down for one second and he's gone. Cavan Man (1/1/00; 7:21:51MDT - Msg ID:21966) Dear Golden Truth The very best reason to buy gold now is becasue of the inflation which is hot and getting hotter although we're told NOT! In 30 days if there are no Y2K related disruptions to the economy, watch for the FED to begin telling us about inflation and raising rates. That is their next big problem unless the unexpected happens.In some private email I asked The Stranger if, in his opinion, was buying gold today like buying IBM when it hit $40, remember that? His reply unequivocally; YES! He pointed out there is much more leverage in stocks but given the lack of solid fundamentals supporting the major indices combined with the vulnerable hedge book position of so many miners, I can't bring myself to take a chance on mining company equities.As to our friend FOA; to me, what he repeatedly says here and the core of his thesis makes too much common sense. If you go a step further and accept the fact that our other friend ORO (and others not mentioned, sorry)has taken the time (I don't have) and applied the intellect (also, don't have) to poke holes in the FOA/Another THOUGHTS and has concluded in agreement (I believe you do ORO) with FOA/Another, then, I think more patience is required on your part.Besides, everytime you get negative that is a bullish signal for me! (haha). Take care this year friend. Cavan Man (1/1/00; 7:04:40MDT - Msg ID:21965) HELLO ET I know the place is Westport well; caught the brown bottle flu there a couple of times at least. Next time you're in the neighborhood give me a shout http://www.tetranet.net/cavansales.Happy New Year Number Six (1/1/00; 6:23:49MDT - Msg ID:21964) Great post from tb2k... Until we see Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, I.R.S., to name a few, operating with precision and dependability, we are very vulnerable to an economic nightmare. Government accounts for a huge segment of employment in this country. Add to this the incredible amounts of money that is issued into circulation in the form of benefits and such, and the truly amazing unanswered questions as to where the U.S. is at this point remain unanswered. I have viewed my preps as not only "meal insurance" against interruptions in the supply chain, but as an economic hedge against rising prices in the months ahead. I cannot believe I am alone in thinking this way. Interest rates are going to march upward; housing may well take a hit. Mortgage brokers will be doodling on pads of paper as they realize there is less and less business(to name but one example of an industry vulnerable to rising interest rates). Most of the really important problems, e.g. Def. Dept., pipelines that were shut down (and may be pesky to restart), will be kept from public view as a matter of national security. And what about the many computer viruses that may be running around, looking for infrastructure to disrupt? Seems there are MANY more things yet unknown to hoist a victory flag over this country and y2k. (The only victory so far is preventing massive public panic;well, there is the additional victory of propaganda over a national audience--YECH!) 2 very alarming things to me are: 1)The overall complacency of our nation(not going totally unnoticed by folks like China and Sadam) and, 2) HOW EASY IT IS TO STILL MAKE PRUDENCE TO APPEAR LIKE FOOLISHNESS! An extra comment on this 2nd point is the incredible amount of folks reporting they feel foolish and embarrassed. If you really want to feel/experience both of these emotions, then chuck your preps. and begin running around trying to get folks who prepared for NOTHING, to accept you back into their "fold of foolishness". Then, when fallout begins to become apparent, you will realize the true meaning of foolish, embarrassed, and UNPREPARED! Just as the coverage of y2k was so incredibly shallow and simplistic in the press for the past few YEARS, so too is the thinking that we are over the worst of y2k. Just cuz my T.V. works, doesn't mean it is "all-clear!". And one night of CNN pics. of lights on all over the world hardly gets me feeling even remotely confident that things will not be "so bad". (This line of reasoning wouldn't work on a 6 year old child.) The most unfortunate side-effect of y2k roll-over so far (IMHO) is the "innoculation effect" that is occurring among some who prepped. How willing will they prepare or stay prepared for the unforeseen yet not on this nation's radar screen? In closing, I will add that this nation is in and will remain in a window of vulnerability for some time. Just as a cancer patient never knew the day, time and hour that a tumor began to form within themselves, so too this nation appears to be generally clueless as to our vulnerabilities to attack and outright breakdowns in necessary infrastructure that are now present. When rollover occurred, every unremediated line of code became a cancer cell in this country's economy. Whether the Nation's "immune system" of bug busters can heal all of these conditions, before they grow into a sizeable tumor remains a HUGE question, at least to me. I therefore will remain ready to "roll with the punches". Old habits are hard to break: Why let CNN and the "crowd of fools" do your thinking for you? -- (He Who) Rolls with Punches (JoeZi@aol.com), January 01, 2000. Number Six (1/1/00; 6:20:28MDT - Msg ID:21963) @Canuck and y2k Yep - thanks for the words, pretty uneventful here in sunny Denver, working on a y2k project we cut over the United Airlines system with no drama at all.As for y2k...Please remember that it is an ongoing process - it may well be a death of a thousand cuts.So far we are all encouraged, but it dismays me when people who perhaps really should know better dismiss it as a hoax.Wordwide over 1 trillion dollars have been spent. If this is a hoax then I have been vastly overpaid for the last year!This is no hoax. The markets open Monday/Tuesday. Let's see how the international payments system does. How clearing and settlement work.Let's monitor chemical plants, refineries, shipping, pipelines, ports, oil platforms. Let's see how they are doing with oil in Nigeria, Iran, Iraq, Mexico, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia.Let's see how trucking, rail, JIT deliveries do.Dick Mills [electricity] has gone on record as saying that he expects power problems to peak two weeks into 2000. Last night I monitored UPI, AP and Reuters for the duration and saw nothing about any power problems in the USA. Yet on the timebomb 2000 board we have had reports of sporadic outages in at least ten different states. Also getting reports in about nuke glitches in Japan, BP having problems with oil in Egypt, ATM problems in England etc.Many pipelines in the USA have been shut down.Russia and the UK are on Reuters claiming to be TOTALLY bug-free.Come on, pull the other one, it has bells on :o)The fat lady is only just gargling IMHO. The news is great so far, but please don't go dumping your preps just yet. For all we know USS Titanic may have hit the berg and stripped a long gash of metal from it's hull, only no-one noticed because they were too busy looking at the fireworks up above.TO RECAPMidnight can be viewed as stage one of the effects of y2k. Unfortunately some information may not be available from relatively closed societies such as china for weeks. Russia exists across 12 of the 24 time zones. It was good news that reactors in the first 2 time zones appear unaffected so far. Of critical impotance will be the embedded chips in their gas delivery systems. They are major suppliers to Germany etc. of fuel. The second phase will begin next week when businesses and gov't agencies that are shut down now start up. The third phase will play out as any effects on supply lines that will be reflected in company earnings in the 1st quarter. The news so far is very encouraging, but it's not over by any stretch of the imagination. I'm giving it at least another 3-6 months to see what develops. Leigh (1/1/00; 6:10:34MDT - Msg ID:21962) We're Wise to Be Prepared http://www.the-moneychanger.com/html/not_here.html To anyone who's feeling like a gullible fool this morning: Please read this article. I've posted it before, but it is a great lesson about why it's wise to buy gold and to prepare for any eventuality. It has never been far from my mind since I read it a year ago, and I think the lesson it teaches will be borne out in the coming year. SteveH (1/1/00; 5:35:23MDT - Msg ID:21961) Nickle62 Thanks,I am not sure what 'opions' I discussed you are referring too. My only post of the day was to Peter and Golden Truth.But from your question, it would seem that ORO is on top of the options for pay and retention scheme. My take on all the wealth being created currently is the following:Test the wealth effect by asking, what would happen if but 10% of these folks cashed out and bought gold? Let me see how well I do an OROian? 10% of market cap of Nasdaq and NYSE and ASE and Canadian Markets and Euro markets is (this is a guess) $10 trillion (more?). Take $10T and multiply times .10, which equals $1T. Take $1T and buy gold. At current market price of gold (rounded to nearest $100) of $300, divide $300 into $1T. That number equals 3.3333 billion ounces of gold that (theoretically) $1T could buy. 3.3333 billion ounces equals approx. 104,000 tons (using 32,000 ounces per ton) of gold. Since that is approx. 26,000 tons short of the entire worlds supply of gold, I would say that were these folks interested in buying up that much gold the price would rise slightly. If you take the price of gold as it was in the early 70's and for the sake of argument say that it was 1/2 of its current value at or around $150 and you apply knowledge that total market capitalization at the time was $500 billion and there was only 110K tons of gold around at the time (annual growth of gold supply is about 2 to 2.5 percent) then one assumes that just 10% of those folks bought gold or $50 billion worth, that would mean they could have bought 10K tons of gold. In other words, just using simple assumptions it would appear that in 1973 10% of world stock market cap could by 10k tons of gold and today it could buy 10.4 times more. Either my assumptions are way off, gold is dead, or things will get mighty interesting with gold sometime in the future, to the tune of at least a 10 X increase in value or at least $3000 per ounce. If we move our comparison to the 60's with today, that factor could be more than 30 times or $9000 per ounce. BTW, my computer date is 1/1/00 and I didn't have to touch it.Let's see of the banks open on Monday and if the IRS looses our records (here is hoping on the latter). Simply Me (1/1/00; 3:39:35MDT - Msg ID:21960) The Best of 2000 to One and All! My computer is up and running fine. Ye-ea-ah!Thanks for the reports on Y2k around the world! Glad to see so many still on line! Loved the story about the reporter at the ATM machine!Still filling up bottles of water. You never know when all that spit and bailing wire is going to fall apart. Perpetual paranoid that I am (trust the system and you'll get screwed someday...maybe not today...maybe not tomorrow...but), I may begin to relax a little when my 70 year old mother gets her Social Security automatically deposited Social Security payment this month, I can fill my gas tank with no trouble January 14th, and the shelves of the local grocery store are still well stocked January 30th.By the way, the smaller grocery stores were looking a little bare January 31st. And water, toilet paper, batteries, and gas cans were in short supply at the local SuperWalmart. Looks like Nashvillians prefer to weather their storms (natural or otherwise) at home rather than Red Cross shelters. That's why I love this place.So far so good! Golden Parachutes: Got mine and I'm keepin' it. Get yours.simply me Peter Asher (01/01/00; 02:45:38MDT - Msg ID:21959) Getting bumpier Airport communications, SW Iowa - repost from TB2000greenspun.com : LUSENET : Grassroots Information Coordination Center (GICC) : One Thread http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a386d8277152f.htm News/Current Events Breaking News News Keywords: Y2K, IOWA Source: KCCI-TV Des Moines, IA Published: 12-31-99 Posted on 12/31/1999 20:28:39 PST by CampaignWatch KCCI-TV in Des Moines reports that two dozen airports in SW Iowa lost all communication ability at 0 GMT, this evening. Officials from Iowa's Department of Transportation and the FFA are swiftly investigating the source of the Y2K-related glitch. Some of the airports effected include Council Bluffs, Red Oak, Shenandoah, and Creston. -- beckie (sunshine_horses@yahoo.com), January 01, 2000 Peter Asher (01/01/00; 02:42:03MDT - Msg ID:21958) Bumps in the road http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002ArS -- meg davis (meg9999@aol.com), January 01, 2000 Did anyone else happen to see this? On Fox News tonight, right after the rollover CST, the anchor man and woman (stationed at Time Square) were yucking it up about the Y2K success. It was a never ending litany; all is Y2K AOK; the world is 100% compliant. They were incorporating little corporate interest stories in their coverage...taking us to Sprint to see the people waiting for bug reports. They even brought the camera in tight for the view of an engineers drummming fingers (bored, with no glitch calls coming in). It's amazing how it's all blatantly directed to influence the viewer to form a pre-determined opinion. They cut to another reporter standing by a cash machine. "Banks are OK; no major glitches" was this little sub-story. He promptly puts in his ATM card, punches in his ID, hits "yes" to answer the "will you pay a dollar for this transaction" question and waits for the money....nothing. "Oops! It wants my ID again" he says, and then he starts the process over. Still no money. He quickly starts at the beginning for the third time, punching and answering without the fanfare. The machine starts to make that...whirring "I'm going to send you money now noise". And, the anchors at Time Square cut in to say, "we can hear the money coming out now". But....no money. At this point, they were clearly embarrassed and I was laughing my rear end off. It was too funny. Without wasting a single moment "puff" he was gone; and we were left with the Time Square anchor team making a flustered comment like..."he'll probably call and get mad at his bank tommorrow morning." Boy do I wish we had more "live" TV; it's so much more fun than the taped stuff! Peter Asher (01/01/00; 02:36:26MDT - Msg ID:21957) Saturday is a business day in Islam http://greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002Aj2 So this is the first workday test>>>>> Reporting straight from the Utah Joint Information Center - I am here with Senator Bennett who has announced that the Pakistan Stock Market has crashed. His source is an independant daily Pakistani newspaper, "The Islamabad." No further word is available at this time. -- Jennifer Bunker (Salt Lake City, Utah) (Jen@bunkergroup.com), January 01, 2000 el St.One (01/01/00; 01:03:42MDT - Msg ID:21956) 2000 To AllHappy New YearHappy New DecadeHappy New CenturyHappy New MellenniumHappy Happy Happy Happy Happy Happy to be here for a go at another year.Wishing all a healthy and prosperous year............el Peter Asher (01/01/00; 00:22:39MDT - Msg ID:21955) Days of Gold Gone By Should Gold's true value be forgot.And never brought to mindThen pour a cup, of memories,To days of gold lang syne.ChorusFor gold lang syne my friends,For gold lang syne,Come drink a toast to our good hostAnd days of gold lang syneColumbus sailed across the sea,When Silver reigned supreme,And golden coin, did men then join,For wealth beyond their dreams.ChorusTo gold lang syne my friends,To gold lang syne,We raise our silver goblets highTo days of gold lang syneThrough intervening centuriesWere hatched the Fiat plans,To relegate the one true wealthTo ore beneath the sands.ChorusFor gold lang syne my friends,For gold lang syne,So hoist a toast to golden friendsAnd days of gold lang syneThen ventured we, upon this page,And loudly did proclaim.That Fiat money soon would cease,To be the Master's gameChorusTo gold lang syne my friends,To gold lang syne,And now we toast, our Forum hostAnd days of gold lang synePut golden coins upon the shelf,And silver bars so fine.Protect your wealth, and drink the health,OF - DAYS - OF - GOLD, LANG, SYNE!Thanks to The Scot for searching out the original lyricsCopyright PeterAsher 28 Dec.99 Jeff (01/01/00; 00:04:36MDT - Msg ID:21954) Happy New Year Just making sure everything is working :-)-Jeff Click Here to view yesterday's discussion.
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