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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets...   (Discussion Forum Hall of Fame) (The Gold Trail) ("Thoughts!" by ANOTHER)   The opinions posted by all guests are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of the public discussion shall therefore not be construed as an endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 6/1/1999
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

View Yesterday's Discussion.

Golden Truth (6/1/99; 21:18:44MDT - Msg ID:7012)
Who is buying the Gold???
I know there has been some one here always asking who is buying all the Gold? I believe its the U.S.America, thats right. Due to fear of losing control of the Gold market and then no longer being able to make deals. They are letting the shorts continue to keep this ball rolling for there accumulation program,you can't really believe they don't know what is happening or that they are not accumulating. They know they have 15 Trillion in i.o.u's out and 6 Trillion in federal debt. If one billion oz's of Gold are amassed at an average cost of $320/oz and the price is upped to $3000/oz. The Goverment now has 3 Trillion in assets to back up their debt.Hopefully enough to persuade the holders of the debt currency not to trade it in for the EURO. The Euro will likely replace the dollar as the Worlds currency by early next millenium. The Euro may go straight to E-cash and eliminate hard currency altogether. The talk about Euroland breaking up and the Euro failing? NO CHANCE. Y2K will see to any adjustments that are needed. The Euro will survive and then DOMINATE!! The money flow will likely move this way : US dollars will move to buy cheap Gold and Silver-especially in the U.K where Gold must be purchased in US dollars. WHY? I will leave that up to your imagination. Once the smart money trades inflated US dollars for GOLD , Y2K will reverse the play. GOLD will then be traded or used to obtain a large amount of EURO's before dropping back down. thanks Golden truth.

Technician (6/1/99; 20:56:19MDT - Msg ID:7011)
Why a bottom?
I have been asked by the forum why I think interim lows are in. Honestly, my indicators do not indicate a buy only an oversold situation. But commodities can become more over sold. My opinion is simply a conclusion of contrary opinion and my oversold indicator. Good for buying coins and mining stock but not futures. I will make that call when I see it;)

SteveH (6/1/99; 20:56:18MDT - Msg ID:7010)
Most direct statements to date...
I thought FOA's word worthy of one more post tonight. Note there is no mincing of words here. Most interesting barometer of imminent change, eh?

FOA (5/31/99; 21:10:17MDT - Msg ID:6943) Comment canamami (5/27/99;
14:44:45MDT - Msg ID:6800) FOA, Is it your position that the BIS will
not intervene to protect the POG at $280, or any level, given the
existence of the Euro? How does this theory jibe with the Euro's
declining value in relation to the $US? When did you arrive at the
conclusion that the BIS will not, or no longer, ensure the POG stays
above $280.00?

I look forward to your return, to hear your contributions to the
discussion. Thank You, canamami.

Canamami, They gain more leverage against the dollar with each new gold
short written. I believe they decided to allow the market to "implode"
when it became apparent that the US was going to encourage gold. This
political decision came about around the time that Mr. R. quit. As I
said earlier, they now hold a sword over the market that everyone should
be aware of. It could fall at any moment and end any further purchases
of gold at today's values.

I think the $280 price was based on an old formula they used long ago.
I'll offer it later when I have more time. Also note that the Euro was
never to rise against the dollar until the dollar fell from it's own
weight. The Euro was to become the "fallback" reserve currency that
received the flight from a failing IMF / dollar system. The BIS / ECB
was very surprise that it opened as strong as it did. Many who criticize
the ECB for not supporting it are the same ones who object to the "dirty
float" and "rigged" dollar. Yet, here the ECB is trying to offer a fair,
self evaluating currency and the speculators are crying for
"intervention"! No doubt the same ones that currently "intervene" in the
paper gold markets to save their skins. We shall see. FOA



FOA (5/31/99; 20:47:00MDT - Msg ID:6942) Reply tlc (5/27/99; 14:42:54MDT
- Msg ID:6798) paper gold contracts I am puzzled by the statement that
there is an excess of paper gold "shorts" in the market. It is my
opinion that you cannot just open a "short" position without an
offsetting "long" position being created. Can anyone shed some light on
this for me?

tlc, Hello, usually, the short side of a contract must (theoretically)
supply real gold to complete the transaction. The long side must supply
currency to complete. True, every position offsets. The problem arises
from shorts not being able to supply gold because they don't have it.
It's not that there are excess "shorts", rather no excess gold. does
this help? FOA

FOA (5/31/99; 20:39:01MDT - Msg ID:6938) Comment -------------Cassius
(05/27/99; 12:09:10MDT - Msg ID:6795) FOA's msgs 6766 and 6783
-----Also, could you please expound on your statement (msg #67660)"One
can also see why the US will encourage a higher "world" price for gold,
even as it's native market is destroyed!" This isn't intuitively clear
to me why the US would do so. Thanks for your shared insight.
Cassius----

Hello Cassius, I hope some of the recent posts added to your other
stated considerations. As for the US anticipated actions? It's the only
play available to them! They cannot sell their gold in quantity (see my
other posts) and the current shorting is based on the "equity" of the
local bullion traders, not the future supply of gold! That equity is at
"major" risk as I write. The dollar "will" be devalued with a rising
world gold price and there is nothing the US political factions can do
to stop it. As I said before, they will make as much political hay out
of an inevitable situation as possible. In that light they may close the
paper gold markets as they begin to fail from non delivery (a future
event). Then begin a series of verbal prouncements about "how much gold
the US has" and "how much backing it provides for the dollar". Remember,
gold is no longer the threat, the Euro is! Thanks FOA



FOA (5/31/99; 20:23:16MDT - Msg ID:6937) (No Subject)
-------------USAGOLD (5/27/99; 9:29:58MDT - Msg ID:6787) Today's Gold
Market Report: Central Banks Cannot Print Gold---------

Fine report USAGOLD! We should all read this again and save it!

FOA (5/31/99; 20:17:39MDT - Msg ID:6936) Comment ---------canamami
(5/27/99; 6:03:41MDT - Msg ID:6781) Brief Musings I only have time for a
couple of sentences. 1. The POG is not completely unimportant, even for
hardcore physical gold buffs. Would one still feel the same about gold
if it were valued at $10.00 per ounce, to use an extreme example? 2. The
recent and continued price slide appears to me outside of the realm of
the hypotheses of FOA/Another and must subject those hypotheses to
further examination, to any person who seeks objective verification of
hypotheses. Obviously, the BIS is not intervening to hold the POG at
$280.00. The POG has dropped more than a $5 to $6 fluctuation from about
$283. Our friends are learned, and I eagerly look forward to their input
on this, IMHO and respectful opinion, unpredicted weakness. Thank You,
canamami.

Hello canamami, I know you posted again about this, but I wanted to
comment. If you have kept up with the massive writing here, I hope you
were able to grasp some of the other fine points made by all. In
addition I add: The range to purchase gold looks to be the same. Yes, it
has dropped further (another 10 lower?), but as the shorts attempt to
lower it, the physical market will, no doubt "discredit the paper
market" through a large disparity in prices. Soon, one may not be able
to purchase bullion as the entire system begins to break down. At the
point of breakdown, physical may not be available, except at much higher
prices. The "risk" is becoming obvious and clear, worldwide! We shall
see. Thanks, FOA



FOA (5/31/99; 20:02:57MDT - Msg ID:6935) Comment ---------------The
Flying Scotsman (5/27/99; 4:08:42MDT - Msg
ID:6779)Farfel.............Gold Price G'Day, Weel, it lokks like the
Gold price is going down like a "pork chop in a synagogue". This current
compression of the gold price, how long can it last ? If as FOA infers
that there are now two "Gold Camps", which one has the deepest pockets ?
The "other" markets, well they appear to be in and out like a fiddler's
elbow. Aye---------------

Hello and welcome Scotsman! Your question of "which one has the deepest
pockets ? Well it used to be that the one with the most gold made the
rules and maybe it still does. Currently, it's the geopolitical group
with the "world reserve currency" that holds the reins. However, this
new open market for gold is about to award that title to a new entity.
You see, it's not just "how deep the pockets are", but rather "what
supports them that counts".

FOA (5/31/99; 19:38:51MDT - Msg ID:6934) Comment -------beesting
(05/25/99; 22:57:14MDT - Msg ID:6742) Gold seen well supported near
lows. http://www.barney.co.za/reuters/may99/gold25.htm Flemings global
mining group said in a report: The unique liquidity provided by Central
Bank lending to the Gold market had prevented severe lease rate spikes,
allowing the market to be played for the short side for extended
periods.((3long years)). While it was hard to say when this dynamic
would change, for now and while there was negative sentiment,"this
structure creates an Achilles heel which invites attack,"Fleming said.
Click above URL for more.------------------

Hello beesting, Boy, "unique" is the right word! If I wanted to expand a
market, the best way to do it is to offer almost "zero" rates to finance
it, right? Then, after some 10,000 to 15,000 tonnes of gold were leased
around, I would control the equity of every player by controlling the
lending interest rates. The above "lease rate spikes" can easily be
created by withholding supply through open bidding for gold! It's a
political sword that the BIS now holds over the paper shorts. All the
market can do now is keep creating short paper by using "company equity"
instead of gold. In time, the entire paper gold market drowns in
"fictional" sales and becomes completely discredited as a true physical
supply source. What a mess for them! What a success for real gold!
thanks FOA



FOA (5/31/99; 19:18:33MDT - Msg ID:6933) Comment ----------USAGOLD
(05/25/99; 20:37:01MDT - Msg ID:6735) Stever.......and All.....

"For those who say this has been an exceedingly long and dark period for
gold, I would counsel that these cycles play out over many years period
of time. The stock bear market that started on a constant dollar scale
in 1965 did not come back to the level from which it first descended
until 1982-83. Similarly, the stock market high of 1929 was not reached
again until 1942. Bear markets can be long and merciless but always
darkest before the dawn. Gold's overdue, Steve, but I still wouldn't go
out and load up future's contracts or call options."------

Michael, A very nice post. I read it all. Your last item should give
people an idea of how long term these things can be. We must all
remember that the perspective that most analysts write from (the last
Barrons article?) is only using the action of gold from 1975+/-! They do
not allow the "history of paper currencies" to influence their thinking.
The US dollar is only some 30+/- years old when one considers how long
it has been off a gold standard. During that time it has created more
debt than has ever existed during the use of "any" form of money! Truly,
a failure of this modern paper would turn the current analysts of gold
on it's head and make the wait seem like only a moment in time. We will
see it happen and chronicle the results on this forum. thanks for
providing it, FOA

FOA (5/31/99; 18:57:01MDT - Msg ID:6931) Reply Cavan Man (05/25/99;
10:39:10MDT - Msg ID:6719) FOA & Another I am new to the Forum and the
subject near and dear. With the help of this Forum I am learning a great
deal. Many times in reading your posts I am uncertain as to the meaning.
Could you recommend a short reading list for my continued enlightenment
and edification? Many thanks!

Hello Cavan Man, It has taken me a lifetime to grasp how money is used
among nations. Hopefully, with the internet it will require only 1/4 a
lifetime for you. However long it takes, I can assure you it is an
interesting and useful endeavor. Sorry, I know of no short list? thanks
for reading and discussing

FOA (5/31/99; 18:43:56MDT - Msg ID:6930) Comment! -------TownCrier
(5/25/99; 9:30:58MDT - Msg ID:6717)---- Eddie Georte: British Gold Sale
"A Very Sensible Portfolio Decision"
http://finance.uk.yahoo.com/news/19990525/businessday/busstory142283.htm
l "He (Eddie George) dismissed accusations that the policy was a device
to prop up the ailing euroas 'conspiracy theory gone to extreme'.

Towncrier asks: "What happened to the days when central bank reserves
existed to defend one's currencies, not garner the best
returns?"-------------------

TownCrier, The above is only part of your post, but still an important
part. Most of the public discussion concerning the BOE gold sales
revolves around the obvious. Such as "they sold gold to bring reserves
in line to join the Euro" or "they leased gold earlier and now this move
is just to cover those leases gone bad" or it was "open manipulation
because they announced it first in order to push down the gold price".

My point all along was that they did none of the above. Your statement,
TC, is the closest to the truth. Let me explain:

If they (BOE) were selling gold as a direct course to join the Euro,
they would have handled it exactly in the same manner as the Dutch and
other EMU nations did. Sell the gold quietly and direct it towards
contract completion. This was done quietly to bring the best trade and
to deliver the gold into "private EMU friendly" hands. All of the pre
EMU deals were done in this fashion and the BOE would have done the same
"IF" the purpose was for "reserve balance" prior to Euro application.

It is true that they are active in the gold leasing market. No one would
expect anything less when the members of the LBMA are so very close to
the BOE. I believe one of the members is the very agent for the
government! (Someone here should be able to help confirm this for the
group). However, this new sale of gold could never be used to "square
the books" for gold already leased because the old leased contracts were
done at a much higher price. The "auction" would have to be concluded at
a much higher price than today for the numbers to match. A rare event,
indeed!

The open announcement of sales did move the dollar price of gold, but
that was not the purpose of this "verbal action". They had no choice but
to announce, because they (BOE) were about to sell "unencumbered"
physical vault gold to LBMA members. It was an obvious public statement
to show that the LBMA had a "line" on "freed up real gold" to satisfy "a
pressing situation"! Someone in the world community needed to know that
this "future" gold was available with no way to reverse the sale. A
public statement does just that! The credibility of the BOE to perform
was put on the line. Otherwise, the sale would have been held quietly
and privately, over time, just as the EMU sales were.

Back to your item, TC, "What happened to the days when central bank
reserves existed to defend one's currencies, not garner the best
returns?". Well you have hit the nail exactly upon the head. This BOE
gold "IS" currency reserves and it was being used to defend the
currency. Only, it was not the pound that was being defended, it was the
dollar! As USAGOLD once said, some nations grow weary of using their
reserves to back a foreign reserve currency, so to do the british grow
tired. Because they were part of the IMF / dollar faction (thanks again
Steve #6820), England used the services of the LBMA and the gold
reserves of the BOE to help strengthen the dollar. They expanded the
gold supply (and world ownership) by selling various paper gold
securities. They did this because the dollar is "their" reserve currency
also, it mainly backs the pound! Today, we come to a point where a major
reserve currency change threatens every dollar holding nation, and
London is in danger of becoming the "odd man of Europe" during this
time. With the BIS having succeeded in leveraging the dollar into the
brink of "implosion" Briton must make a dash for the EMU, even if the
resulting "dollar slaughter" will destroy their LBMA through an
exploding physical gold price. This, my friends, is what the BOE gold
sale is all about. They are clearly saving a small portion of their
bullion bank empire prior to EMU. The sale has nothing to do with
"balancing reserves" to meet ECB criteria.

Many words to make a small point. On to other comments. FOA






Peter Asher (6/1/99; 20:26:41MDT - Msg ID:7009)
You tell me
Down another dollar tonight , Unbelievable!!

It seems that gold has gone from being systematicaly driven down, to a genuine selling panic. One having no more rational regarding fundementals than the internet stocks do on the up side.

The one difference, is that downside bubbles have real physical limitations.

Peter Asher (6/1/99; 20:18:01MDT - Msg ID:7008)
Hello ! Congress???
We had Senator Ron Wydon at our monthly chamber of commerce meeting today. Small group, maybe 60 people. He said some intriguing things during his talk regarding the political process and current issues, but I'm going to save that data for another post. Since the 'fur is flying' a bit around our primary subject tonight, I'll cut to the chase.

After the meeting, I managed to get in contact, and while shaking his hand and introducing myself, I asked him if he had any awareness or activity regarding the selling of IMF gold, 15% of which belonged to The USA. He said "I don't know anything about this" !!.

Tomcat (6/1/99; 19:55:43MDT - Msg ID:7007)
Technician

Found your last post interesting. Could you tell us what numbers and trends you look at, and explain how you use this data to draw your conclusions. Please note that I am not questioning your conclusions, but after visiting your homemade site I became curious.

Cavan Man (6/1/99; 19:33:50MDT - Msg ID:7006)
Sir Gandalf
Remember the old fortune cookie proverb: "Those that live by crystal ball often end up eating glass" (hope you're right)

Technician (6/1/99; 19:32:07MDT - Msg ID:7005)
bad link
http://www.homestead.com/purifoysfutures/purifoy.html
Sorry, bad link. If you wish to visit my humble home page try this one!

Gandalf the White (6/1/99; 19:27:58MDT - Msg ID:7004)
Clarification !!
When one speaks of stocks, ONLY PM stocks are considered, AND NOT those high flying ".com" or DOW thingies !!!
<;-)

Gandalf the White (6/1/99; 19:25:02MDT - Msg ID:7003)
Looking at MY crystal ball !
Now "no one" should go out and expend the farm on my observation of the clearing clouds within my crystal ball, BUT, the levels of todays drop at the opening and the recovery to close at the highs in the physical and major stocks tells me that we are going to see real fireworks tomorrow !! --- The chartists are saying not to think about it, JUST BUY. --- But the "Physical" shorts will have their way until they run out of everything that they can throw at Spot the dog and the Aug contract. Twil be a great show tomorrow. To protect the crystal ball, I shall now cover it with the velvet cloak and not look again until the close of COMEX. Later all.
<;-)

jinx44 (6/1/99; 19:20:41MDT - Msg ID:7002)
CoBra(too) and the complex
From what I've read about the natural resources in Kosovo, there is every reason for a criminal group to be bombing the sh*t out of FRY. If you look up the Stari Trg mining area and the Trepka mining complex, you will note that this huge mineral wealth has attracted thugs from way back to Roman times. The Germans occupied this area to make U-Boat batteries and mine gold. The area still produces much of the worlds submarine batteries. I read recently that a greek mining consortium has signed a 3 year deal to mine gold, silver, cadmium and lead. The deal was worth $1.5Trillion I think. But NATO is there for the children. I wonder how much soap you can render out of a childs body? Maybe there is money to be made here!! Besides, the third way crowd doesn't need these useless eaters anyway.

Technician (6/1/99; 19:00:10MDT - Msg ID:7001)
Gold refuses to take a downdraft!
www.homestead.com/purifoysfutures/purifoy.html
I do not wish to create fantasies from clouds or reading the future in tea leaves but todays action in gold piques the mind. Why the close on the high? Lot's of short interest but not so much downward action. The stuff is greatly oversold and I suspect the shorts are in for, at least the short term, a lot of trouble. Don't know so much about western conspiracies in the Balkans, Nato is not that smart but I can read charts. Lot's of volume on this downdraft. Where is the "meat"

CoBra(too) (6/1/99; 17:49:04MDT - Msg ID:7000)
@Golden Truth
Thank you for your immediate response, which I can't reciprocate right away in every facet, sincee I can't verify the alledged multi-billion mining concern in Kosovo.
It is 1.30 a.m. in my part of the world, though I don't think this ongoing bombing (back to stone age as NATO quotes) over Kosovo is for any economic benefit- no - it is alledgedly the first war in history for humanitarian reasons!?!
I'll try to express my thoughts more clearly tomorrow-regards -CoBra(too)

Golden Truth (6/1/99; 17:19:49MDT - Msg ID:6999)
Spelling
Hello CoBra, I knew somebody would see a spelling mistake or to but i,am a beginner typist and subscribe to the "Hunt and Peck" method. So it takes me a reeeaaalllyyy long time to type out my thoughts. There for my spelling is inversely proportional to the speed at which i type, so sorry but i was in a hurry.That aside what do you think of my scenario about invading Kosovo for the GOLD mine? I think your post was perfect timing, and not what so ever an intrusion of mine i think its just that more people are finding out about the truth and are now going to start questioning what is going on? Your post is cold hard evidence of that fact!!! We should be aware of the fact that people do KILL other people for Money, the question is who much more for the goverments and GOLD.I really question the MOTIVE for an impending invasion into Kosovo by the HUNGRY Brits also maybe camouflaged as the L.B.M.A?

CoBra(too) (6/1/99; 16:41:13MDT - Msg ID:6998)
@at golden Truth....
Have not seen your message before posting mine. 14.000 tons of AU shorts seem to become mainstraem knowledge - though not the ramnifications of this number. Pls forgive me for posting similar, if coincidently,ideas.
I loved the way your Brits seem "hung(a)ry" to deploy ground troops to propbably help the 300.000 ethnic Hungarians out of Northern Serbia? No pun intended!

Golden Truth (6/1/99; 16:26:26MDT - Msg ID:6997)
U.R.L correction
http://www.sightings.com/politics2/motive.htm
OPS sorry i left out one letter. Also i wanted to add to my last post about the fact the the British Army seem awefully dam hungary to invade Kosovo. Maybe i,am reading this all wrong they aren't going for the GOLD after all. Its the poor muslem pheasants they LOVE so dearly and that they can't wait to send their soldiers in to DIE for silly me. Also why is the the U.S.A so friendly with the KLA a know terrorist group all i here is how commited the US is against terrorism. I guess this is somewhat of an Oxy Moron ?????????? GO figure i know i have.

CoBra(too) (6/1/99; 16:10:30MDT - Msg ID:6996)
Bul-lion
Comex and OTC gold shorts reaching proportions of no return - Mike Coulson of Paribas or Brett Kebble (JCI) openly quoting alledged short positions up to 14.000 tons of AU- in the main stream media.
The lenders/leasers of gold will have a lot of explaining to do to their constituents, as to the whereabouts of their physical reserve asset, since there simply is no way to get the bullion back to the vaults. It simply is not available, not at any price, however low it will become depressed in this kind of quantity!
The physical market is booming-supply deficits can't be saturated from new mine production since years and are growing disproportional- as demand is going through the roof and the PoG remaining at these levels or heading lower still, will eventually and dramatically curb production in terms of total production costs, further excesserbating the problem of unavailability.
The equation of equilibrium in terms of supply/demand comes to mind, even if admitting to a split gold market, i.e. paper gold vs physical, the gold lenders/leasers will wake up to the fact that their physical, while maybe still in their vaults, is forfeited and effectively sold - while new production, in part is also forfeited by forwards, and potential production curbed by price. The real and total production costs, including capital costs, amortization and reclamation are close to today's gold price level and a lot of producers are eating out of their hedge book already. Aside from ongoing depreciations of the producers currency, there is not much left to alleviate the strain on margins.
The super bowl finals between the young team of fiat (bulls) vs the legendary quarterbacks of bul(lion), while being (un)-officially staked, will once more see the bul-lions rewarded with the true golden trophy.

Golden Truth (6/1/99; 16:09:57MDT - Msg ID:6995)
Response to Something else and Thuggery?
http.www.sighting.com/politics2/motive.htm
Hope this somewhat answers your thoughts.I,amsure my answers aren't 100% correct but i believe they're close. Anyone else please feel free to respond. (b)They are the ones (shorters)who are making Physical GOLD available at prices for the necessary repurchase to them selves the (short holders). Kind of like a dog chasing his own tail,or a circle that keeps getting smaller.(Implosion?) They can't cover 14,000m.t(metrictonnes), even the B.O.E sale is only 450-480m.t. Thats not even enough to cover the 200,000 o.i contracts which equals 622.08m.t. I believe F.O.A when he says they(B.O.E) sold to cover their currency, being that the "Pound" is tied to the U.S dollar. (c) They can never return the GOLD to the C.B no matter how low the price goes. Would you give up your GOLD @$150/oz to cover what you now know to be someone else's short selling? NOT ME or any other C.B's .This is where the fireworks have started! This is also why they(shorters) will have to pay back the C.B's with a proxy for GOLD with the "EURO" since it represents GOLD backing! (a) Sorry to address (a) lastly but i don't want to forget it. Yes they might make some profit in shorting GOLD but only until it implodes, which is soon! Lastly i have my own idea i've been kicking around alot! It came to me in part by what "ANOTHER" has said in the past that the Goverments will do quote "WHAT EVER IS NECESSARY TO PULL THE REAL MONEY BACK IN" unquote. The TREPCA mining complex just keeps coming back to haunt me! Like most WARS, the KOSOVA war is about money-BIG MONEY. It has nothing to do with ethnic cleansing,genocide,or atrocities. It's all about money. FOLLOW THE MONEY. Its a bold power grab to control the mining complex in KOSOVO. Next make "slobo" a criminal, already done? Then everything is wide open in the publics eye for the Goverments to sieze any and all assets of a criminal! under such a premise? Besides who is going to pay for Kosovo to be rebuilt? and the massive amounts of money needed to pay for the resettlement of the Poor Poor Refuges. Even though we've killed hundreds of you with our Smart bombs? oh must just be dumb targets for that to have happened. Not to mention thousands of people dying from exposure to the elements, so sorry once again but i've got a fat juicy steak scarf down and 14,000m.t of GOLD to pull back in. Some one once mentioned on this forum that they hope the u.s gov, won't resort to "thuggery" I think it was Aristotle. Well guess what we live in the real World where real people are dying, including "INOCCENT" people in Yugoslavia. How many soldiers have really died? So in my eyes thuggery it is! The mines are worth TRILLIONS of dollars. Even if the u.s gov. Spent 100 billion dollars and the mine was only worth ONE TRILLION it only cost 10% to wage this WAR and to steal the mines. Believe me they will take the mine if Yugoslavia falls! What they are doing is out right pure unadulterated EVIL! This is is where they can get 14,000m.t of GOLD and for very cheap labour costs also and it will take only a couple of years to get it. The u.s gov knows this and is going to hang in there tooth and nail until it does. I also wonder if others in the GOLD shorting business know this also so they are told to just keep shorting away,and we will come to your rescue, besides your doing us a favour in under mining the EURO. We need to get rid of them dam europeans and that pesky EURO, you know how much we HATE competition especially against our reserve currency. The real tricky part though is preventing WWIII. Something that was alluded to in the letter called "THE STING" was the hope that a World War could be avoided when the u.s dollar was unreserved. I wonder if "BORIS YELSTIN" ever got a copy of the "STING" that Russia had been given a routine castration. I bet that would put some pressure on the powers that be to get the Hell out of Europe. If not nostradamus's(sp) prediction about the "KING OF TERROR FALLING FROM THE SKY" in July 1999 doesn't seem all that far away anymore. Well got to run i have to e-mail somebody? over in RUSSIA. thanks Golden Truth!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TownCrier (6/1/99; 16:02:23MDT - Msg ID:6994)
What Drives the Price of Gold?
http://www.newaus.com.au/econ121gold.html
Although dated this week, I seem to recall this same essay from weeks ago...some sorta weird deja vu, maybe. Final analysis, it is better to hold gold "too soon" than to try to get it "too late."

Yeah, kinda like toilet paper. Who waits until AFTER they need it to make a trip to the store? Some things you just gotta have in advance, ya know??

TownCrier (6/1/99; 14:30:57MDT - Msg ID:6993)
What? We worry?--A commentator's fun reminder that Y2K hasn't gone away.
http://www.l-e-o.com/news/0528chitwood.htm
A mixed bag of advice and smiles.

TownCrier (6/1/99; 14:20:55MDT - Msg ID:6992)
Tea leaves
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990601/8l.html
Most IMM currency futures ended higher as the prospect for higher U.S. interest rates sparked a heavy selloff in both U.S. T-bonds and stocks, which in turn dampened demand for dollars.

TownCrier (6/1/99; 13:48:12MDT - Msg ID:6991)
Markets tumble; dollar slips; Bonds crumble on strong NAPM
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/archive/19990601/news/current/bonds.htx?source=blq/yhoo&dist=yhoo
"In this kind of market, he said, value isn't important. Direction is what matters..."

But in the end, value will win the day, my friend. Gold.

TownCrier (6/1/99; 13:39:20MDT - Msg ID:6990)
News From the Tower: U.S. Treasuries crushed at futures close
Treasuries experience their worst sell-off since May 14.
A dollar can be no better than its bond. Yikes!

TownCrier (6/1/99; 13:33:57MDT - Msg ID:6989)
NY Precious Metals Review: Gold hits 20-yr low
By Darcy Keith, Bridge News
New York--Jun 1--COMEX Aug gold futures settled down $2.5 at $269.5
after hitting a fresh contract low of $267.0 on Australian producer hedge
selling overnight. Gold also hit a fresh 20-year low on nearby continuous
monthly charts. Jly silver traded in the opposite direction today,
settling up 9.0c at $4.985 on bank and fund buying. Silver got a boost
today from a newswire report indicating that Mexican producer Penoles
plans to cut its silver and lead exports by 10% this year from 1998
levels, traders said.

The Australian producer hedge selling overnight in gold was spurred by
a weaker Australian dollar versus the greenback. The Australian dollar hit
1 1/2-month lows against the US currency today amid widespread selling by
US banks.
One large US bank and one large German bank were said to be
particularly heavy sellers today. The triggering of some sell stops may
have also helped to accelerate the move.

The Australian producer selling overnight spurred further weakness in
the European spot market, where volumes were thin following the 3-day
holiday weekend. Some of the thin conditions may have contributed to the
sharp sell-off gold saw today, traders said.

Gold remains the victim of overwhelmingly bearish sentiment, which was
intensified last month with news that the UK Treasury plans to sell off
more than half its gold reserves starting on Jly 6.
Some players have become optimistic for gold as spot prices resisted
to sink sharply below $270 over the past several days, but the break of
that level has brought in further disappointed selling.
"It's hard to find anyone positive on gold right now," said Leonard
Kaplan, chief bullion dealer of LFG Bullion Services. "The trade and
speculators are going to remain on the bear side of the market until it
penetrates at least one or two resistance points on the upside." He said
$270.75-271 for cash prices should provide some resistance, although more
serious resistance won't be seen until $275-280.

(c) Copyright 1999 FWN Reprinted at USAGOLD with permission. For details please go to:
http://www.futuresource.com/internet.shtml
No further reproduction without written permission from FWN

TownCrier (6/1/99; 12:52:22MDT - Msg ID:6988)
OIL:Iraq finds chemical weapons in UNSCOM office. [What the ??]
United Nations--Jun 1--1246 ET--The United Nations Security Council is
currently in an emergency consultation called by Russia after Iraq found
chemical weapons in the Baghdad offices of UNSCOM, the UN group charged
with monitoring Iraq's disarmament progress, a diplomat who spoke under
conditions of anonymity, explained. However, Chief UN Weapons Inspector
Richard Butler, as he was entering the meeting, said: "Experts know of
nothing alarming." By Carola Hoyos

London--Jun 1--0037 ET--All members of OPEC favor extending the group's
agreement made in March to cut its collective oil output by over 1.7
million barrels per day to support oil prices, a senior official at the
Iranian oil ministry said today. By Alex Lawler

Kuwait--Jun 1--0040 ET--Current oil prices are "satisfactory" but should
improve in the second half of the year, according to Kuwait's Oil Minister
Sheikh Saud al-Nasser al-Sabah. By Agence France-Presse

Milan--Jun 1--0121 ET--Erg, an Italian oil refiner and gas station
operator, said it will reduce production at its oil refinery ISAB di
Priolo in Sicily by about 25% and will not sell refined oil on the spot
market this month. By Sharifa Pastori

(c) Copyright 1999 FWN Reprinted at USAGOLD with permission. For details please go to:
http://www.futuresource.com/internet.shtml
No further reproduction without written permission from FWN

TownCrier (6/1/99; 12:42:53MDT - Msg ID:6987)
Abhorring a News Vacuum, Market Waits in Vain for Selling Climax
http://www.thestreet.com/markets/marketfeatures/751423.html
The cat is out of the bag. Now that you know what the run-of-the-mill reporter DOESN'T know, feel free to dismiss their stories, and think for yourself.

But of course, I try to give you the stories that are not run-of-the-mill, so stay tuned!

Cavan Man (6/1/99; 12:24:37MDT - Msg ID:6986)
Peter Asher
I cannot comment on the EU. I do not have the knowledge to give an opinion. Having travelled a bit internationally and having reached the conclusion from my travels abroad that "humanity" shares many common threads, I want to assume the EU has similar problems across the board.

TownCrier (6/1/99; 12:18:22MDT - Msg ID:6985)
Daytraders Fret When Margin Comes Calling
http://www.thestreet.com/markets/marketfeatures/751942.html
In the end, the piper must be paid.


TownCrier (6/1/99; 10:30:04MDT - Msg ID:6984)
Rate hike for eurozone possible (Al says, "I don't THINK so, Tim.")
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/events/the_launch_of_emu/euro_latest/newsid_357000/357966.stm
Although it was mentioned by a senior Bundesbank official that an intrest rate rise could be used to strengthen investors' confidence, given the structure of the euro it is easily argued that "the idea that the exchange rate is a real problem for ECB policymakers is just way outside any reasonable analysis".

TownCrier (6/1/99; 10:20:59MDT - Msg ID:6983)
World Trade Wars
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/business/the_economy/newsid_342000/342821.stm
The world is at war again - over trade. Governments and producers squabble over beef, bananas, steel and other goods. Once again some countries try to 'protect' their faltering industries behind trade barriers.
BBC News Online takes a look at the dangers facing the world economy with a compendium of links at this site.

You know, if YOUR money is not as acceptible as MY money or THEIR money, how on earth will we ever do business? It is all about GOLD, but the leaders won't face the music.



TownCrier (6/1/99; 10:11:40MDT - Msg ID:6982)
Indonesia: Suharto goes off the money
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/world/asia-pacific/newsid_357000/357979.stm
The Central Bank in Indonesia has dumped the portrait of former President Suharto on its largest bank note.

The new 50,000 rupiah bank note (worth around six dollars)will now bear the portrait of the composer of their national anthem.

Wow! 50,000 ledger units of theirs equals 6 ledger units of ours. If you had only 120 American dollars, you'd be a rupiah-millionaire. Numbers mean nothing. It's all about purchasing power, folks.

Technician (6/1/99; 9:55:15MDT - Msg ID:6981)
Sloppy posting:(
My last post, somehow, came out as two prepared posting instead of one I wanted. If a little confussing, that is what happen. Be more careful next time.

TownCrier (6/1/99; 9:52:54MDT - Msg ID:6980)
Robust NAPM seen pushing Fed closer to rate hike
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990601/w7.html
Bearish for Bonds because the Fed may raise rates. Bearish for Stocks, which are fearful of higher cost of borrowing money. Hmmmmm, let's see now... Got GOLD?

Technician (6/1/99; 9:51:02MDT - Msg ID:6979)
Keep your powder dry
www.homestead.com/purifoy/purifoysfutures/purifoy.html
I have been a lurker for years on Gold Forum. My peak experience in life may have been selling part of my gold position at $800. That market served me well and I have waited 20 years for another. We are near but a final purge is necessary. Stick with dollar averaging coins until a clear reversal is signaled.

I am a high school math teacher and and retired AIR Force. I have a hobby of creating software for commodity analysis which is much inspired from Wilder. Seems to work pretty good. I have no commercial interests at all but I do have a personal website, www.homestead.com/purifoysfutures/purifoy.html. It is only for public perusal, fun and exchange of ideas. Used homestead and it was really easy to create it and for free!!! Presently, everthing except sugar looks like a short. What, is this some kind of deflational collapse with the $ ever higher?

One story to tell. I am married to a Russian and have a Russian mother-in-law. I proudly showed her my collection of gold maples, kruggers, pandas, etc. when she cut me off with the remark. "Gypsies sell those things...best bite one next time you buy." I was taken back by her perspective and realized that gold is different things to different people. Few living Russians have had nor do any have the opportunity to own gold. Their miserable condition may be part of that lost freedom.








Maybe today is the start of the purge that will lead us to a key reversal bottom. Only in last year have I regained my interest in gold. Now I wait very patiently for the signal which will be fast and hard and very visible to those who have been patient.

One of the high points in my life was selling some of my gold position at $800 (wish I had sold all of it;) The market was very good to me those 20 years ago and I feel the juices once more that have lain dormant for two decades.

Read the forums and understand the undercurrents and patiently wait.

Thanks for all those who visited my little home made web site. It was real easy with Homestead and for free. Please share your ideas with me on the technical aspects of the markets. So many have came but I feel as if i am talking to a wall. Let's make it a fun place, bring ideas!!!






Goldfly (6/1/99; 9:17:19MDT - Msg ID:6978)
USAGOLD

As I was telling Goldsun and The Man from Cavan: what you see is pretty much all I know. I am trying to get some documentation whether the item was published in the National Tribune prior to the Civil War.

While the publication wouldn't prove that it came from Gen. Washington, I think it would lend more credence to the possibility since it seems to predict the War Between the States and it's outcome.

I doubt very much that it belongs with Washington's papers, as it would probably get much more airplay (not mainstream airplay, just more.)

Anyway if I find out anything more, I'll post it.

GF

TownCrier (6/1/99; 9:12:54MDT - Msg ID:6977)
McDonough says strong U.S. dollar in U.S. interest
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990601/ut.html
How soon until they employ a parrot to deliver this same old routine? Why so much official jawboning? Seems like shades of 1971... Stuff must be about to hit the fan.

TownCrier (6/1/99; 9:02:16MDT - Msg ID:6976)
FOCUS-European markets await U.S. data, gold dives
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990601/jb.html
Stocks, bonds, gold, and the NAPM

TownCrier (6/1/99; 8:57:27MDT - Msg ID:6975)
ANALYSIS-Sustained low prices may force gold mine cuts
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990601/gw.html
Puny supply at risk of becoming smaller.

USAGOLD (6/1/99; 8:46:23MDT - Msg ID:6974)
Goldfly...
My apologies, o bard of bards. The question below should have been directed to you.

USAGOLD (6/1/99; 8:41:53MDT - Msg ID:6973)
Steve H....
I wanted to mention that the Washington vision reminded me that Washington warned in his Farewell Address that we should avoid foreign entanglements especially in Europe (if I remember right). The vision may have had a profound impact on his foreign policy. At the very least, there were plenty of philosophical consistencies between his vision and foreign policy. Thanks for the interesting post which I had not seen before. Do we know when that account was written and whether or not it's part of Washington's official papers?

TownCrier (6/1/99; 8:30:42MDT - Msg ID:6972)
Saudi banks unite to create Arab giant
http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/990530/3.html
The merged bank, to be called SAMBA, would be able to compete more effectively "especially in light of the restructuring that is currently taking place in the regional economies..."

USAGOLD (6/1/99; 8:17:58MDT - Msg ID:6971)
Today Market Report: Some Gut Wrenching Action in the Early Going
MARKET REPORT(6/1/99): Whoever has their foot on gold's neck kept it there this
morning as gold opened at $271.50 on the August contract ran to $277.10 (up $5.60 from
the open) and then promptly plummeted to the $266.30 before recovering to $268.80 --
quite a gut wrenching opening to the week. It all happened so fast at the open, that most of
the investment world didn't even know it happened -- like a Phantom -- but if the MRCI
report is correct, and it usually is, the open, high and low are there for all to see. If Reuters
is to be believed, the latest short attack has originated with the mining companies who are
running ahead of the Bank of England, who in turn is running ahead of the European
central banks (all of which have said categorically they have no intention of selling their
gold), who in turn are running ahead of the International Monetary Fund (which has yet to
make an official declaration on gold, but the smart money is betting they won't be selling),
and finally, ahead of the public which is not selling at all but buying -- at record levels.
With all the running one would think that the gold market was really the seemingly chaotic
Bolder Boulder (won by an Ethiopian not a London gold trader), rather than the staid and
gentlemanly proposition it is so fond of advancing as its modus operandi. Ah...the vagaries
and nuances of the free, unbiased and responsible British press. It is obvious that
something is going on in the gold market -- some great forces pulling underneath the
surface, like a riptide, and some equally strong forces looking for opportunities to cover
previous short positions. It appears we have come to the volatile stage in market action.
Keep your ear to the rail. Anything could happen.

Meanwhile the eyes of the currency world were on the euro which suffered a disastrous end
to last week with calls from all corners of Europe that something be done to prop up the
new-born, but ailing, reserve currency. European Central Bank officials talked of
interventions and abandoning their policy of benign neglect. The market is reacting half
heartedly to all the politics in the early going. Traders are waiting to see if something more
than rhetoric will emerge from all the bustle on the continent.

The featured article in this month's News & Views centers on government finance in an
article entitled "The Financial State of the Union." I'm sure it contains many
surprises for our readers. There is a great deal of difference between what our government
leaders are telling us and the reality with respect to the government's books. This issue is
one or our best and most informative. Please go to our ORDER FORM or call Marie at
1-800-869-5115 for a Free Copy of News & Views -- our widely read monthly newsletter
-- and introductory packet on gold ownership.

TownCrier (6/1/99; 8:09:45MDT - Msg ID:6970)
Saudi Prince Says Iran Has Right To Arm Itself
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wl/story.html?s=v/nm/19990601/wl/saudi_iran_prince_1.html
"All countries follow the same policy..." he said.
Policy is "for the benefit the Gulf region"

Goldfly (6/1/99; 6:38:14MDT - Msg ID:6969)
Cavan Man, Goldsun
Have seen a number of references to Washington's vision, never heard of it being attributed to Lincoln....

When I get more info, I'll pass it on.

GF


Silver Tongue (6/1/99; 5:30:18MDT - Msg ID:6968)
Gold
Much is said about countries dumping their gold because they have too. What strikes me is the fact that if England dumps its gold at these bargain basement prices and if the citizenry is lapping up gold at these ridiculously low prices that all England has to do one it has dumped the gold is to confiscate the gold back from the citizens at an even lower price than that at which they were forced to sell the gold in the first place. Is there anything wrong with this logic? I hope that there is.

SteveH (6/1/99; 4:37:01MDT - Msg ID:6967)
Tossed and turned all night...
August gold now ... what!? I must double check this...yes it is true!

$268.00

something else. Your idea is ideal, problem is the market appears to be divided: physical and paper. To pay back in physical of such a large quantity is not possible or seems not possible. Part of the problem is that we don't see the true physical market. It is hidden from our eyes. That is why Michael said watch the market.

I believe that even two thousand tons of gold can't be found to satisfy needs, except at CB's and they are giving it up anymore, unless they have to (BOE?).

Oregon Geezer (6/1/99; 2:33:43MDT - Msg ID:6966)
Scary Bilderberg agenda stuff
http://www.the-news.net/archives/bilburg29-5.htm
You can also find the site on today's www.drudgereport.com

Goldsun (6/1/99; 2:06:40MDT - Msg ID:6965)
Vatican gold
While information on the Vatican's financial holdings is certainly of interest, I have long been curious as to the existence and financial holdings of analogous organizations in other religions, such as Muslim, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism and last but perhaps not least, Parsees and Jains. Information on Parsee participation in the development of Hong Kong would be particularly welcome. Although I have no knowledge of the Vatican's financial affairs, I occasionally find myself wondering if they haven't gotten into some sort of bind which required outside assistance.
Goldsun

something else (6/1/99; 1:21:05MDT - Msg ID:6964)
Greetings, musings, and questions
Greetings!

This is my first posting. I am prompted to write in order to postulate a very simplistic theory that was prompted by SteveH's 6820 post. But first I want to say how much I love you guys! I have been reading USA Gold's Market Report for some time now, but only recently checked out the forum. The only problem is that my obsession for reading it keeps me up way to late at night!

I would also like to say that I am grateful to find such an abundance of knowledge and insight. All I have heard around me lately is cheerleading for the bull market and denial of the present bubble and its mania. My belief in the value of physical gold tends to garner only bemusement and tolerance for my ignorant beliefs at best. So I tend to keep my opinions to myself. Time will speak for itself in the long run.

So on to my postulation. So far, the focus of the solution to the problem of the repayment of the huge amounts of gold outstanding due to the gold-carry trade seems to have focused on the euro. Perhaps, it is simpler than that. Steve states that an "estimated 14,000 tons of gold that has been involved in the gold-carry trade needs to be paid back. It is impossible to pay it back in gold as most of the Central Bank loans demanded so now it would seem that the financial parties in the gold-carry business need a source of gold to pay back these loans. It appears that only two escape hatches exist for the gold-carry players. Keeping the price of gold down by shorting it on COMEX (this is akin to naked shorting as insufficient gold bullion doesn't appear to exist to cover the 200,000 open interest contracts) or repaying the loans in a medium acceptable to the banks who loaned the gold in the first place."

Try this idea on for size. The BOE announcement to sell reserves is an action that has been acknowledged to drive the price of gold lower. Huge quantities of gold short positions remain outstanding on the market. Sooner or later, the physical metal must be repurchased to make good on the outstanding short positions. With so many institutions worldwide having such a vested interest in the covering of these short positions, what better way to solve the problem then by: a) taking measures to drive down the cost of gold to levels sufficiently low to assure the ability to cover the short positions (and possibly manage to make a tidy profit as well); b) making the physical metal available at those prices to the short holders for the necessary repurchase which in turn enables c) the gold 'borrowers’ to return the outstanding gold borrowed to the lenders.

It may be that this idea has been alluded to before in these postings. However, I have not seen it stated explicitly, therefore I bring it before you for your (collective) comment and insight.

I leave with one more burning (for myself anyway!) question.

Why on earth, would one consider bulk sale of gold reserves when gold is trading at 20 year lows? In the life of common people, like myself, we don't usually sell out the family jewels at rock bottom prices unless we are feeling VERY desperate! I would think one would only sell off those jewels when one is completely desperate, and there is NOTHING ELSE OF ANY VALUE LEFT TO SELL!

It is ironic that the purchase of gold bullion by individual investors continues to increase while the price of the investment hits a 20 year low. What's wrong with this picture?


Aristotle (6/1/99; 0:03:50MDT - Msg ID:6963)
Beesting---Ahhhh, yes...Sovereignty! What life is all about!
Great stuff! And here's the thing...no one will show up out of the blue and simply give it to you. However, it is yours for the taking--a frame of mind, attitude, perspective (call it what you like.) A lifestyle. Avoid operating on auto-pilot. Be deliberate and exercise judgement in all that you do.

If a seagull can hatch in this wild Garden among the stars, and be free to navigate the various bounties and trials of life, why can't we also? Methinks the world needs more birds like Jonathan Livingston.

Sovereignty. Take you some. ---Aristotle



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