Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. Looking to buy gold coins and bullion? The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets. To join the debate request a discussion password here.
The opinions posted by all guests at this forum are expressly their own and do not necessarily represent the views of the management or staff of USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals. The hosting of this forum shall therefore not be construed as equivalent to endorsement by USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals of any of the opinions posted here.
ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 1/11/2004 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Goldilox (1/11/04; 23:53:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 115130) Go for it, Bill On second thought, I like Dollar Bill's guess better!!!(:^) - G Liberty Head (1/11/04; 23:52:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 115129) ******$435.0****** "Hi ! My name is Ernst Welteke and I think that Germany should sell its Gold because the Emperor needs to pay for his new clothes. Goldilox (1/11/04; 23:48:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 115128) contest entry **** 431.5****"Hi ! My name is Ernst Welteke and I think that Germany should sell its Gold because the exchange rate is causing Mercedes prices to rise too fast in America. As an additional accomodation to my American friends, I am also asking DaimlerChrysler to outfit its SL500 model with optional breathalizers so that future American leaders can successfully fulfill their alcohol probations in comfort and luxury."Sale of the gold should bring down the euro as well as bring gold down to its new floor of **** 431.5 ****-Goldilox Operative (1/11/04; 23:40:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 115127) ******* $436.50 ********** Hi ! My name is Ernst Welteke and I think that Germany should sell its Gold because, and I know you may not believe this, but rumors have it the real money is to be made in silver. The CoinGuy (1/11/04; 23:30:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 115126) Pizz... AMSCBest,The CoinGuy Dollar Bill (1/11/04; 23:27:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 115125) *>* **452**Hi ! My name is Ernst Welteke and I think that Germany should sell its Gold because we need others to think gold is a poor investment so that they will sell it, not buy it, we can quietly buy it, cheap, and build up the EURO. Gandalf the White (1/11/04; 22:58:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 115124) Sir RICH --- I think you missed my last message to you ! <;-) http://stockcharts.com/def/servlet/SC.pnf?chart=$SILVER,PYPA[PA][DA][F!3!1.0!]&pref=G FIVE --- yes 5, LITTLE GREEN "X"s !!HI HO SILVER, AWAY !!!<;-) Gandalf the White (1/11/04; 22:36:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 115123) ******** $432.1 ********** "Hi ! My name is Ernst Welteke and I think that Germany should sell its Gold because I have been ordered to create a diversion to cover the fact that Germany does not have any Gold anyway !"<;-) Gandalf the White (1/11/04; 22:31:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 115122) TA TA TAAAAA, TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA YES --- There it is !!!! The USAGOLD -- Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. "CALL to CONTEST" !!! It has been approved to be sounded by SIR MK !!! <;-)YES, all you Goldhearts, Sir M. K. has requested the FIRST CONTEST of 2004 be started ! This contest will be a COMEX Feb. '04 Contract (GC4G) POG Settlement ContestSir M. K. said, "Let's make the WINNING prize (OF COURSE) --- a German KING "20 Mark" goldpiece (0.2304 oz. of Au), and the two RUNNERS-UP each win an one ounce U.S. Silver Eagle." "Each entry MUST be accompanied by the REQUIRED short statement !The CONTEST starts NOW !! READ THE RULES !<;-)===THE RULES -- (We MUST have RULES !!) --- PLEASE READ !!1) THIS Contest consists of TWO Portions --- A Price Prognostication and a short "STATEMENT" !2) The Winner is the Price Guess closest to the Settlement price of the COMEX FEB. 2004 Gold Contract (GC4G) on the date of WEDNESDAY, the 21st of January, 2004. HOWEVER, All "Guesses" MUST be posted before the clock in Denver strikes MIDNIGHT (24:00 MDT) on SUNDAY, January 18th, 2004.3) Price "Guesses" shall be stated in Dollars and tenths !(Such as $500.0) and shall be SHOWN in the SUBJECT BOX location AND enclosed in markers of "STARS", (Such as ****** $500.0 *******), so as to be OFFICIAL !4) ONLY one "Guess" per Knight or Lady is allowed, and once that "Guess" has been "taken" -- no one can duplicate it !! FIRST COME has rights to that "Guess".5) AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, to accompany the Price prognostication,--- Each guess must be accompanied with a completion of the following statement --- "Hi ! My name is Ernst Welteke and I think that Germany should sell its Gold because --- (in thirty words or less).===This CONTEST STARTS, NOW !GOOD LUCK ALL !<;-) Dollar Bill (1/11/04; 22:05:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 115121) *>* Black Blade, Thank you for all your posts. Your goodbye post was removed at your request I suppose, too much info?I didnt see it, but whatever calls you, best to you.Sir Melting Pot, "Let's stop being nice to this nightmare and all who would keep us in it." You make some good points.I have to keep in mind the idea, "know your enemy". If I really do that, I stand a decent chance to find the weakness that could defeat the thing I dont like. Since I have that pesky lifespan issue to contend with, effective action is a target of mine. Understanding more is key. Al kyda dunces kill themselves and others to try to do what derivitives and the fed will do in time. They kill to cause the collapse that is already on its way. It is like blowing yourself up to change the course of the river that is already headed the way you want. Waterboy (1/11/04; 21:38:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 115120) (No Subject) Re-posted from the Bear ForumBear Forum Mars Rover makes incredible discovery. Posted By: ClosetBullDate: Saturday, 10 January 2004, at 6:59 p.m. NASA Control, Mission to Mars Janyary 19, 2004 Mars Mover Makes Minerals Discovery After only two days of exploration, the Mars Rover sampled a core sample after drilling the wall of the great crater "Sea of Hope" in which it landed. The core sample yielded an ore that had a content of 1% iron, 20% silicon, 17% mica and 62% gold. Geologists at NASA estimate that given the sheer size of the crater wall, that there are approximately 800 trillion tons of gold reserves just in that one site. When asked whether and how the gold would be mined, NASA scientists remarked that gold was worth much more in the ground as reserves and quoted several internet sources to support their opinion. Several gold stock financial newsletter writers said that it made no difference how much gold was on Mars because the mining and recovery costs would be so high that by the time Mars gold got back to Earth it would cost over $600,000/oz. They added that while Mars production would not be a factor this year or next, it could influence the price of gold within three or four years as that is all it would have taken for gold to reach 600K/oz anyway. Bush commented that he always suspected that Mars was make of gold because red is not the color of capitalism and communists don't know anything about gold. Treasury Secretary Snow was quoted to say that the US would be financing its current and future deficits with Mars bonds backed by Mars gold. He privately said countries around the world are stupid enough to believe the gold story and they'd be happy to take bonds with gold backing in lieu of Treasury notes only backed by the full faith and credit of the US. Truthcaster (1/11/04; 20:02:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 115119) Hi Ho Silver Silver is doing very good tonight and gold is well offit's lows. Silver now trading at 6.60 oz it's niceto see the poor man gold doing so well..Have a great week all..Truthcaster mikal (1/11/04; 19:51:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 115118) @R. Powell The Central bankers themselves like Alan Greenspan who has penned various pro-gold treatises and speaks veiled disclaimers and not-so-veiled warnings of late. Ben Bernanke and Wim Duisenburg too, and now the IMF.Eddie George of the Bank of England a few short years ago said: "We were looking into the abyss", leaked words from a meeting to discuss gold and $ market intervention to save the failed LTCM. Pizz (1/11/04; 19:42:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 115117) Rich Been pondering the same thoughts as you, but not from the futures, since I follow stocks and options. Here are some of the dots I've been trying to connect.The US and Japan have told the world that the dollar will be defended. They even told us how much is available. Battle line appears to be 80 to 85. A three month bounce setting up a right shoulder on the dollar with an 80 or so neckline could be in the making. Dollar is way oversold technically, but fundamentally dead over the next few years.I think we're about done short term with dollar help. I'm expecting an interim low for the dollar this week.PM bugs are starting to get frothy, usually a good indicator of correction coming.Stocks have been acting inverse to the dollar, and they are also due for a 10% or so correction. PM stocks included. the silver stocks have about 10% or so left on the upside - at least the ones I follow, and that would allow for a shot at 7.00 ag, but I feel it will happen fairly quickly. There appears to be some tape painting going on for HUI to appear to be making a double top.I think silver's bust out thru a few shorts' plans a bit haywire, but they appear to be holding out for a correction, it just won't be what they were hoping for (hold the 6.40 and react back under 6). Now it appears that 6.25 to 6.40 may be support for the next pullback.The 12 million ounces taken off the Comex available inventory seems to have racheted up the game so to speak.All in all, emotionally I'm just nervous enough that we probably have a bit more on the upside, but nothing is straight up.Just one man's opinion, based upon the disecting of a bunch of other opinions, and due your own due dilligence, etc., etc.One other strongly fundamental reason for silver that I read, but unfortunatly can't remember where, was a company ramping up silver wire production for use in a superconductor electrical grid. Our electric grid looks worse than my "home brew" computer that I use. If the recession gets bad enough (MORE than likely), our electric grid refurbishment will make a great government works project. A year or two or three away yet, but I'm keeping it in the back of my mind. If 12 million ounces was good for .60 on silver's price, how about a few hundreds of millions for wire AND investment demand. . . .Be nimble buddy and preserve the capital at all costs, the floats are gettin' thin, volitility up, and we haven't even a good sweat worked up - yet (smile).Pizz mikal (1/11/04; 19:42:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 115116) @R. Powell Of course there's the inimitable poster known as Another and his friend FOA(Friend of Another aka Trail Guide). Cavan Man (1/11/04; 19:31:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 115115) Here Mike... http://www.jsmineset.com/ Cheers.. mikal (1/11/04; 19:22:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 115114) @R. Powell Re: "Maybe a huge short covering rally is now more likely?"Good points.Remember the legend Warren Buffett not long ago at all, said that derivatives are "weapons of financial mass destruction."And John Templeton, another legend, the venerable Richard Russell, Dr. Richenbacher, Harry Shultze, and Jim Sinclair all have weighed in on the implications of the various bubbles, layered contracts, debts, imbalances, deficits, etc.Also Steven Roach, Bill Fleckenstein, Bill Buckler, Thom Calandra, Charley Reese, Jim Puplava, Mike Bolser, Chris Powell, Bill Murphy, Michael Kosares, John Embry, Adam Hamilton, James Turk, just off the top of my head. MK (1/11/04; 19:21:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 115113) MGresh Do you have a link on the Sinclair? MK Chris Powell (1/11/04; 19:08:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 115112) Thanks to our host MK for this GATA dispatch http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/1834 Why is Bundesbank President Ernst Welteke obsessed with selling Germany's gold?http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/1834To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Mr Gresham (1/11/04; 19:02:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 115111) MK: Welteke That is quite an amazing post chronologizing Welteke's obsession with selling gold for any reason he can think of at breakfast that morning.Not to cheapen your fine scholarship with low TV humor, but Welteke (if the guy is not really on-the-take) reminds me of SNL's John Lovits character, "The Liar", who switches his explanations with every sentence, "yeah, that's the ticket" I think was his sign-off line.Some shady dealings may come out after this is all over with. (Or may not. Pharaohs used to have their golden tomb's architects buried with them, didn't they?)I haven't read any further down today, but do you have a take on Sinclair's ideas about $480 being some kind of limit, or is he just giving the system a warning that above 480 means much more is going down than just the dollar's exchange rate? That's my guess, as he explains to Dan Norcini afterward, that he can only say things up to a point in larger media. R Powell (1/11/04; 18:54:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 115110) COT report As usual the report became public on 1/9/04 but consists of numbers totaled through 1/6/04 so the last three days of trading are not included. I'm wondering with the price of gold and silver at multi-year highs, how much the potential for a real short covering move has increased. I'm refering here to the Comex only and not OTC positions. The COT shows the same positioning that we've seen for some time now. The commercials are short, and all the speculative funds and small speculative players are long. Supposedly, the commercials are legitimate hedgers who would not be pressured into covering. I don't believe this, I never have. With multi-year highs, there can't be many short positions that aren't suffering. It's not as if they sold gold last year at $480/ounce or silver at $6.90/ounce. I imagine there are some wondering how to not only hedge against further lose but also how to position on the long side. Creative positioning (like going long to cover short options) usually creates more problems in the long run than simply closing the losing position. The passage of time should force the loses to be settled. Maybe a huge short covering rally is now more likely...?? An explosion? I don't know, but I believe the chances of one are greater now than they were when $2.00 was a big daily move. For long term investors, metals are still cheap! Thoughts? Rich R Powell (1/11/04; 18:29:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 115109) Large gold sales Perhaps years ago people held the opinion that gold was not a good investment because they held the same opinion voiced once by Larry Kudlow when he said. "Why should I invest in gold when central banks are likely to sell it at any time?."During those years the POG was declining (trending down). Now the situation has changed. Gold is being bought, the trend is definitely upward so that I'm not at all sure that announced bank sales, by the Bundesbank or others, would have the same negative effect that they once dispensed. For starters, I believe more interest would focus on who obtained the gold and, as mentioned, why it is being sold. Often the same news causes a different market reactionunder different market conditions. The reaction often depends upon how the news is interpreted by the market players. I'm no longer sure how the POG would now respond to announced gold sales. It is even conceiveable, by this old goldbug, that announced sales could start panic buying. Large sales orders often cause a concern with the perceived availability of the item. If the issue were grossly oversubscribed (very likely, imho) the buying pressure might increase all the more. Rich PS> I don't expect any announced bank silver offerings. CoBra(too) (1/11/04; 18:08:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 115108) BuBa's Gold It's just what Ferdi Lips has described in the additional chapter of the German edition of Gold Wars. A smoke screen for gold long lost and encumbered ....Sorry for being brief - it's really late - cb2 goldquest (1/11/04; 17:52:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 115107) Bundesbank Gold Selling I agree, non event, it's just their turn to make waves and to try and spook people away from gold. I am sure the Chinese will buy all of the gold Bundesbank cares to sell. MK (1/11/04; 17:19:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 115106) Chris & All. . . I might add that in my estimation given the circumstances, any gold that might be released from the Bundesbank would be unlikely see the light of day. Assuming that gold is owed to someone else, it would be foolhardy for that entity to dump it on the market in these circumstances. I believe Bundesbank gold sales, if they occur, will be NON-EVENTS in the gold market. Just as the Bank of England turned out to be non-events, and the Swiss sales went quietly into the good night. MK (1/11/04; 16:41:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 115105) Chris Powell: On Germany's Gold and the Fautian Bargain The earliest reference I could find to Ernst Welteke obsession with gold sales was in February, 2002. "The Privateer" reports Welteke as saying that Bundesbank should sell gold and reinvest the proceeds so that **the interest could be used to pay off the German national debt.**In March, 2002, Welteke was guoted by the German newspaper, "Der Tagesspiegel", as saying that the Bundesbank should sell gold to **help finance public infrastructure work.**In April, 2002, Welteke was quoted in "AFP" as saying that the Bundesbank should sell gold to invest in**blue chip shares and shares listed on the Euro-stoxx-50.**In September, 2002, Virtual Metals’ "Gold, Energy & Commodities" reports Welteke to have suggested that Germany's gold reserves be sold to**provide relief for victims of natural catastrophes**(like the floods which ravaged Germany and central Europe in the summer of 2002).I also recall (but not certain) at some point between February 2002 and the present, Welteke mentioning selling Bundesbank gold to provide funds for **environmental clean-up** (though I cannot at the moment find the reference.)Now, "Bloomberg" reports that in broad-band fashion, Welteke would like to sell Bundesbank gold to**promote education and research** So, to what do we owe Mr. Welteke's rather irritating and chronic obsession with the sale of Bundesbank gold? One would think that given enough time, he would entice every possible consituency in Germany with what could be done with the proceeds from the sale of the German people's gold. It has been speculated that the real reason for the sales has little to do with any of the above, but a long-forgotten merger between Bankers’ Trust of New York and Deutschbank many years ago -- a merger in which a $10 billion gold loan book (as estimated in some quarters) was passed between the United States and Germany. Now that obligation may have become a sine qua non for the German national bank. Those old gold loans have to be repaid assuming they haven't already. They are owed to some other central bank somewhere in this gold-starved world. And in a world where gold in any size is the object of much competition (if it's available at all), a central banker must secure the asset where he finds it. Why else would someone come up with so many different questionable reasons to sell Germany's patrimony? As lender of last resort, the bail-out obligation of the central bank extends to gold loans as well as the kind you can print into obscurity, and that, I believe, more than anything, explains Welteke's obsession. As someone pointed out here recently, and I have said on numerous occasions, it is not the central bank which controls its commercial constituency, but the other way around.Speaking of patrimony, I can't help but allude to Mr. Welteke's speech to Germany's Monetary Stability Foundation (of all groups) in December, 2002. In that speech, he quotes the great German philosopher/playwright, Goethe: "What you have inherited from your fathers / Earn over again for yourselves, in order to possess it." Welteke offered the quote in reference to the central bank's obligation to preserve the national asset structure through a sound monetary policy.One might conclude from the Goethe reference, that Welteke would be content to let the German gold-heritage go at these prices in order for the German people to earn it back again for themselves at $1000 per ounce. Somehow I don't think that's what the great Goethe had in mind. To be sure, he would most likely blanche, as a matter of fact, at such Faustian bargains. Chris Powell (1/11/04; 16:04:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 115103) Bundesbank president undercuts gold sales report http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/1832 Welteke comments from BIS meeting in Basle.To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (1/11/04; 16:02:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 115102) Your friend in the business, helping you enter the market with grace and confidence. http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html Liberty Head (1/11/04; 15:52:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 115101) Late Night with Jack Snow - Is This Guy Funny or What? http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=624&e=2&u=/ap/20040111/ap_on_sc/bush_space snippit:Snow said the new space proposals, which include a permanent settlement on the moon and setting a goal of sending Americans to Mars, will be undertaken "within a framework of fiscal responsibility." -----------Ah ha ha ha ha ha ha fiscal responsibility ah ha ha ha haBoy, talk about snowing the public, this is it.I hope they are careful with the selection process, we don't want to put any insurgents on Mars. ah ha ha ha"Take this ship to Venus"----------snippit:"Whatever the program is, however big it is," Evans said, "it will be within a responsible fiscal budget." ---------however big it is? Ah ha ha ha ha ha ahit will be responsible. HA HA HA HA HAObviously, to these highly distinquished gentlemen, there is no point at which unbridled government spending becomes irresponsible.--------snippit:Snow said. "I am very confident this recovery will translate into job creation." -------Oh, I see. First comes the recovery THEN comes the production.He must be talkin about prison guard and airport screening jobs.You know, if you take everything the government says and distill it down to it's pure esscence you end up with a simple message. Buy gold and pray for those who don't.Best Wishes 21mabry (1/11/04; 15:15:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 115100) Oneil If I remember correctly Secretary Oneil was fired because he did not want to play the game the way the administration was playing it.It would be great to listen to him talk about gold,currency issues,the fed,and the world economies.Im sure his comments on Iraq will be interesting but his specialty was economics I hope he starts talking about that.I wonder why he is coming out now.FDR said nothing in politics is accidental what is driving this and why now.21 Cavan Man (1/11/04; 15:08:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 115099) Bundesbank selling gold (again)? A German CB selling gold for dollars; not gonna happen. Sorry for the poor grammar...CM mikal (1/11/04; 14:39:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 115098) @Chris Powell Thank you for your outstanding work and continued notices.I don't really think the Bundesbank President himself really believes that old trick will get by very many people.But he IS going through the motions with full determination. I'd guess he's paying lip service to the European socialist's agenda while supporting the academic interests of their establishment. And the naive brats in their banking and political bureaucracy with zero precious metals investments, will be thorougly titillated for a day or two at most.Best Regards Operative (1/11/04; 13:28:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 115097) Payday Soon? http://w3.trib.com/~fredj/index.shtml#watch Snip:"Joe Duarte, a financial author and online strategist at www.joe-duarte.com, tracks oil. His latest: "The Wall Street Journal reported that the U.S. and Iraq are seriously planning the formation of a state run oil company. The implications for international oil companies are negative, since many of them, especially U.S. companies, were expecting to eventually set up shop in Iraq. But a closer look at the international oil situation suggests that the advantage will go to Libya. The two companies with the closest ties to Libya are Spain's Repsol (REP: news, chart, profile) and Italy's Eni SPA (E: news, chart, profile). Both have had huge runs of late, and still look to have some strength left. Bottom line? While the oil service companies repair Iraq's infrastructure under Iraqi government-backed contracts, Libya is about to become the new frontier for the majors."Comment: The above is a qoute from a link worthy of a close read. Does anyone else at the table remember all the trips Bush/Blair made to Spain in the early stages of the Iraq War? How about the gold sales made by Spain during the same time period to help stave off the rising price of gold? France and Germany, for lots of reasons objected to the war in Iraq, Italy did not that I am aware of. Looks like it is soon to be "payday" for both Spain and Italy. A couple of the puzzle pieces may have just fallen into place. Chris Powell (1/11/04; 12:40:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 115096) Latest GATA dispatch http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/1831 Murphy's 'Midas' commentary for Jan. 9 posted inthe clear, and Bundesbank president tries to spookgold again.To subscribe to GATA's dispatches, send an e-mail to:gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com Goldilox (1/11/04; 10:38:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 115095) Out-of-print Gems http://www.alibris.com/search/search.cfm?S=R Not meant to be advertising, but I have found lots of the OOP volumes mentioned on this site (i.e. Wall St Jungle) on the above website, where both used book dealers and private collectors offer hard to find oldies but goodies.I know I'm a little over the line here, but I hope Randy can agree that the site also has literary reference value for those of us in the "learning mode". R Powell (1/11/04; 09:54:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 115094) Black Blade......!!! I just caught up on my weekend forum reading and your message from yesterday. I sincerely hope that you've entered into a potentially profitable venture in which success will fully compensate you for your knowledge and labors. Further, it would be even nicer if what you've undertaken for work will fill your time with the "doing" of that which you enjoy. Employment, for most, is a reality in this life that provides those necessities that we require and some frills to entertain us. Fortunate is the worker who profits from that which "interests" him. Have a good time, you will be sorely missed. We will expect some entertaining and informative stories of this adventure upon your return. Be safe. Rich Melting Pot (1/11/04; 09:10:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 115093) Lucky Luciano: "I realized I'd joined the wrong mob'" http://w3.trib.com/~fredj/ney.html Richard Ney on the Role of the Specialist"The story is told that after he had been deported to Italy, Lucky Luciano granted an interview in which he described a visit to the floor of the New York Stock Exchange. When the operations of floor specialists had been explained to him, he said, 'A terrible thing happened. I realized I'd joined the wrong mob'" (1Ney, 8).The New York Stock Exchange is not an auction market (2Ney, 86), though many investors still hold onto that image. It is a rigged market. Volume is an effect of price. Prices are controlled absolutely by the specialists, the 'market makers' in individual stocks. It was this discovery that led Mr. Ney to eventually give us small investors a priceless gift: enlightenment.The specialist is part of a system. First, he is part of that rare fraternity of men who are all specialists in an exchange. It is a small private club, to whose membership one can only be born. The specialists of the Dow 30 exhibit the spirit of 'all for one, and one for all'. If one of the 30 is having problems, the other 29 wait for him, before they move onto their next agreed upon campaign (2Ney, 172). The rest of the specialists take their lead from watching the Dow 30.But the system is more extensive and more powerful than just the specialists. The specialists are the heart of the exchange. The exchange, in turn, has practical control of the major corporations, banks, insurance companies, and brokerage houses in this country. These, in turn, influence news reporting and the regulatory agencies.End Snip:Very interesting article that uncovers the rigging of the markets. This just adds another reason and dimension to the ownership and possession of physical gold and silver. Melting Pot (1/11/04; 07:51:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 115092) NICEISM Nice-ism n. tendency, more or less socially codified, to approach reality in terms of whether others behave cordially; tyranny of decorum which disallows thinking or actingfor oneself; mode of interaction based upon the above absence of critical judgement or autonomy.All of us prefer what is friendly, sincere, pleasant-nice. But in an immiserated world of pervasive and real crisis, which should be causing all of us to radically reassess everything, the nice can be the false.The face of domination is often a smiling one, a cultured one. Auschwitz comes to mind, with its managers who enjoyed their Goethe and Mozart. Similarly, it was not evil-looking monsters who built the A-bomb but nice liberal intellectuals. Ditto regarding those who are computerizing life and those who in other ways are the mainstays of participation in this rotting order, just as it is the nice businessperson (self-managed or otherwise) who is the backbone of a cruel work-and-shop existence by concealing it's real horrors.Cases of niceism include the peaceniks, whose ethic of niceness puts them-again and again and again-in stupid ritualized, no-win situations, those Earth First'ers who refuse to confront the thorouhly reprehensible ideology at the top of "their" organization, and Fifth Estate, whose highly important contributions now seem to be in danger of an eclipse by liberalism. All the single-issue causes, from ecologism to feminism, and all the militancy in their service, are only ways of evading the necessity of a qualitative break with more than just the excesses of the system.The nice as the perfect enemy of tactical or analytical thinking: Be agreeable; don't let having radical ideas make waves in your personal behavior. Accept the pre-packaged methods and limits of the daily strangulation. Ingrained deference, the conditioned response to "play by the rules"-authority's rules-this is the real Fifth Column, the one within us.In the context of a mauled social life that demands the drastic as a minimum response toward health, niceism becomes more and more infantile, conformist and dangerous. It cannot grant joy, only more routine and isolation. The pleasure of authenticity exists only against the grain of society. Niceism keeps us all in our places, confusedly reproducing all that we supposedly abhor. Let's stop being nice to this nightmare and all who would keep us in it.-Zerzan The Invisible Hand (1/11/04; 07:30:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 115091) O’Neill is talking http://www.drudgereport.com/flash1.htm SNIP:When the corporate scandals rocked Wall Street O’Neill and Alan Greenspan devised a plan to make CEOs accountable. Bush went with a more modest plan because "the corporate crowd," as O’Neill calls it in the book, complained loudly and Bush could not buck that constituency. "The biggest difference between then and now," O’Neill tells Suskind about his two previous tours in Washington, "is that our group was mostly about evidence and analysis, and Karl [Rove], Dick [Cheney], Karen [Hughes] and the gang seemed to be mostly about politics. It's a huge distinction." Belgian (1/11/04; 06:55:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 115090) POG comparo Gold as the commodity in dollar, used to (paper)trade at a 100$/Oz less than Platinum, for quite some time. Today POG=426$ and Pt=845$ ! Nothing wrong with the commodity (industrial metal) Platinum, but...something seriously happening with the confetti pricing of Gold, the Wealth metal !Gold isn't even allowed to act as a commodity anymore !!!This is a very serious matter and extremely significant.The Gold (paper-price) dominators (CBs) have taken away the commodity (industrial) aspect of Gold and now focus entirely on the monetary and wealth aspects of Gold. The goldminers had / have to comply with this change / changing Gold-concept, or face repercussions. Less Gold for jewelry and more Gold for oil and the future oil-currency. steady (1/11/04; 06:50:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 115089) delusioNEM (lat) < deludere delusion.have you ever been deluded? why are you acting so delusional?the banks delusionary practices are self-defeating! steady (1/11/04; 05:42:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 115088) hope SPRINGING eteranal for gold bugs! open your eyes, conceptualize, gold will continue to rize,trade good for the prize, fiat to money yep that trade is sweeter than honey and aint no one here going to call u a dummy, rain or shine toe the gold and silver line, day or night just be right and sit tight with that hoard raerly will you be board. kilo, if its all relative then, then is time relative to, cause you know how they say time is money, then money is time and time is in money but money isnt in time and how they have been cutting intrest rates so in essence arent they really trying to force money out of time? and there is no forcing time since time just is and its unit of account, the second cant be forced or created, so it appears that in order to cheat time derivatives where created, but since time cant be forced and there fore money cant be forced from time, but time can be forced from money as money is jut a medium of exchange , but time is not a medium of exchange it just is and time can not be forced from the earth. gold and silver are part of the earth so money can not be forced from gold and silver cause they are timeless, perpetual unless consumed,so if money is relative to everyting its relative to time most of all. you see how they are tryng to force time via the computer micro chip advances in time, as time and speed are all anyone wants to know in the computer world. to speed things up to a ffaster pace in order to flip the debt quicker, there profit stream needs to run as fast as it can, problem is they are out of time as the second can not be forced to go any fast or slower, , they can not strectch it or condense it so there , intreate rate cuts wont have anny effect as there just really , isnt enough time for it to occur in.so everyone just needs to stop racing time , rather enjoy the time given to you, your time cause see if u are teh bankers bitch, the negative unit of account who has leveraged there time forward at a fixed amount of fiat dollars but that same time u leveraged forward is costing you (intrest) so u are actually losing time (money) cause when u aint on the clock cutting your time, time is taking your money. so time is moeny and u got neither just a pile of papers the banks say you owe us more of. now dig this , To have time u must be undebited unfrettered of the debt chains that not only bind you but fix your revenue stream and take your time out away from you and give it to the bankers at a certin fixed amount . so in a way it is all relative to positive and negative revenue stream flows> which way does yor stream flow, forward in time, giving yourself positive revenue streams( gold and silver acquisitons, real wealth getters, along with food, water and the most precious of all commodities, time! Seems that everyone wrongly assumes is free , it isnt cause of intrest and debt.) or does your stream act negative and flow backwards in time to the bankers liar where they wait for u to lose time & lose the ability to look forward and percieve world events . They are able to manipulate you as u look backwards over your shoulder rather than looking forward and extrapolating what is coming in the future by using your time wisley instead of running around like a chicken with its head cut off spinning your whells in a world of fiat.kilo i cant..... wait a second, i can, yet, im having difficulty understanding that not even for a second do those nations( BURPeeeeee. opps escuse me, dat food for thought is still working its way thru me) that are printing and selling the heck out of there currency to by the dollar( who is buying all those yens?) that not even for one second do they gain a competitive advantge in being able to by gold, ah heck forget it its all relative cuase its all paper anyway right? everytime i start down this road i just end up with more questions than answers. back latter after i clarify and concnetrate my position on the effects of nations paper printing fiat script so they can buy other countries curency and other stellar matters you brought up.got anymore golden nuggets off the top of your head that may stimulate my mind into comprehension? Profit Next Quarter (1/11/04; 01:15:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 115087) Education and Polite Society A University education has always been a grooming venue to prepare children of the elite to enter public life or a professional enterprise. Traditionally, the University education was designed for the offspring of the idle rich to promote industry in those that need not work. In contemporary times, its primary purpose has been to occupy youth in a wide socioeconomic range for an intermediate period prior to their becoming part of the working poor. A University degree these days is equivalent to a high school diploma and a most jobs out of college will not supply a living wage. That is the objective truth. However, Truth is a whore who serves one with the greatest Power exemplified by money. When you dare to affront Truth you undermine the bastion of power (the University) and the elites who support it. Do not expect comfort in this situation from those who worship the status quo and perpetuate myths to support their pillaging of society. I had a Professor who was shocked when I said that I believed history was written by the powerful in society. I also faced the retribution of Professors who refused to entertain academic debate on course material. Whoever pays the piper calls the tune and if you want to succeed in academia you must play their game. If you are searching for objective truth and seek wisdom, you must travel alone and tap sources such as this forum, while trying to keep an open mind. It is a bitter revelation to escape the matrix of propaganda and deceit spewed out by the powers that be. Gold is not alone in being maligned to distort the objective truth. Gold is real and its worth can be verified unlike bank promissary notes. We are all living in a world of illusion. You have just begun to gain sight in this land of the blind. Welcome.Still waiting to - Profit Next Quarter mikal (1/11/04; 00:04:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 115086) Time warping the precious metals Strange happenings in the world today including growing Bush criticism. Tomorrow Paul O'Neil speaks again if the event proceeds according to plan, without his suicide or an unfortunate accident or untimely natural or manmade disaster.Rolling Stone magazine's latest cover headlines a story about "The Bush Family Empire Revealed".Popular Mechanics magazine latest(February) cover has a large landed UFO and the story title(paraphrased): "What is planned for when UFO's land." I was only able to quickly skim the contents and found that there ARE elaborate plans to deal with the craft and the aliens- quarantine, decontamination, and more! Magazine questioned what other plans the gov't might have.Getting stranger than fiction out there.Perhaps Bush will not serve out the full term or be induced to declare Force Majeur.But the space program is a boost to certain high tech industries, where gold and silver will be in even greater demand as a key component in shields, sensors, suits, custom circuitry, plating, optics, and many other space-exclusive applications. (The Gold Institute and The Silver Institute both offer detailed internet lists of most of the industrial applications of Au and Ag.). Modern weapons manufacture relies especially heavily on silver, titanium and other precious and base metals.But can anyone forecast the enormous appetite those ET's will have for the shiniest metals? ViewYesterday's Discussion.
Permission to reprint is hereby granted where the USAGOLD name is cited along with our web address, mailing address and phone number. For electronic reproductions, citing the post heading and the http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/ website address as the source is sufficient.