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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/26/2000 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) PH in LA (5/26/2000; 23:41:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 31406) Joke of the Day... http://www.gwbush.com/index.htm Did George W. really say this? Maybe we could get him to post here..."What goes up must come down."--I call that negative thinking. Investors who pulled out of the NASDAQ stock bubble need to get back their CAN-DO attitude and pour all that $$ back into the market. Capitalism's not for quitters!That's what my new Social Security plan is for: Using the hard-earned savings of working class America to kick-start the action at that grand casino called Wall Street.Pumping trillions of dollars of America's retirement into the DOW/NASDAQ pyramid scheme--call it Dubyanomics. If J.F.K could put a man on the moon, and Clinton could win most-favored-nation status for China, then damn it, I can create a financial perpetual motion machine...a pyramid scheme that doesn't have to end (at least during my administration)...chain letter wealth that expands forever...Anyway, if it doesn't work the Fund Managers will always have the option to pull out first, leaving the American people holding the bag. (We'll blame it on the unions or something.) The Bush family has a proven track record of bailing out our fellow millionaires--don't forget S&L. Black Blade (5/26/2000; 23:19:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 31405) All - apologies for my terrible spelling and grammer! OK, so my spelling and grammer are a bit rough right now. But after a day in the sun, rod and reel in hand, and a few Sierra porters and a couple of black-and-tans, what-a-ya-expect? Meanwhile, I think I'll finish off another couple of Sierra porters. Cheers ;-) Black Blade (5/26/2000; 23:13:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 31404) A few quick comments, Re: Leland, Aunuggets, Aragorn III, Golden Truth, and Shifty Leland: Msg. 31383, and Aunuggets, Msg. 31383, The Silver Mexican Onzas-Libertads are fairly nice, and at near to spot as most rounds - as opposed to Silver eagles and maple leafs - Que Lastima! The Gold 10 peso with the potrait of Morales are nice, but I especially like the 20 Peso gold coin with the Aztec (or is it Mayan?) calander on the obverse side - Muy Bella.Aragorn III: Msg 31377, I just came back from a sucessful day of fishing. Just ate some nice pan size trout with a bit of habanero chili - Ice cream indeed :-0Golden Truth: Msg 31389, PGM supplies are very tight. This will be especially true if the ecomony continues forward as strongly as it has. Auto manufacturers have felt the strain of decreased PGM supplies for some time. They have drawn down their Pd supplies for autocatalysts for some time, while hoping upon hope that the Russians would deliver Pd. Now GM and Nissan have announced that they are returning to the use of Pt and Rh in their autocatalyst production. Other will follow, trhey have no choice! Think of how tight PGM supplies could get if fuel-cell tech becomes viable, though not likely anytime soon, but an interesting thought none the less. The expansion of mine capacity will not occur for several years anyway. I would expect the price of PGMs to skyrocket substantially, irregardless of the Russians. The Russian economy is a basket-case and overly corrupt. PGMs will blast-off. Personally I hold SWC stock and some 1 oz Koalas from Oz. I suspect that MK can still provide Pt eagles which would probably be a good physical holding.Shifty: I have a 16' Fisher Marine with a small Johnson outboard. A nice bass-boat. Though I was stream fishin today! SHIFTY (5/26/2000; 21:38:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 31403) Java Man I grew up on the Hudson River in Nyack NY. Im more of a power boat guy. Now that I live in Florida I fish (fresh water) the most. I don't get time to fish like I used to.I do like the water. Now I spend more time under it dredging for gold than fishing. Marius (5/26/2000; 21:36:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 31402) Stranger: No thanks are necessary! Sir,Methinks thou art far too modest. Your posts are always interesting, and have been particularly so the past few days.M JavaMan (5/26/2000; 20:06:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 31401) Shifty... Yes, a ketch is a sailboat that has two masts, the taller one in the front and a smaller one behind it. A schooner, for example, has just the opposite rigging.Today many sailboats look like giant chlorox bottles bobbing on the water but this girl was designed in the fifties by John Alden Co. and is truly a proper yacht. I would much rather have a boat built according to that original design than something made today.Are you a sailing man? R Powell (5/26/2000; 20:04:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 31400) June contracts and COMEX supply Town Crier (31386) tells us that June's open interest declined today leaving 34,911 contracts open before next week's first notice day. Goldhunter (31358) tells us that the COMEX warehouse currently holds 18,500 100oz. lots or 1,850.000 ozs. Thanks to both for the numbers which I believe should be closely watched as a decline in either would indicate that someone is accumulating. If anyone did take a notion to squeeze the market, with the intent of raising POG, what better way than to lower COMEX warehouse stores? Perhaps when the explosion comes it won't be caused by a sinking Ponzi or falling dollar or GATA's fine efforts or a banking crisis but instead by an intentional old fashion short squeeze. What better market than gold with an existing short position equaling years of production? Poor old Soloman has recently reminded us that this same situation exists in silver. I think both those holding physical and those with futures/options positions will be dancing arm in arm long before either fiqures out which approach yielded the greater return. I don't think the difference will be appreciable either way. Thanks T.C.and Goldhunter for the fiqures. Keep a sharp eye open for us! SHIFTY (5/26/2000; 19:47:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 31399) Java Man Is an Alden Ketch a sail boat? JavaMan (5/26/2000; 19:38:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 31398) The Shifty One... It wasn't really a financial situation that prompted me to sell the last one, rather, I reached the painful point of realization that it was no longer practical at this point in time. (Not that owning an HD is ever "practical".) I simply didn't feel the wife and I were getting anywhere near the enjoyment we should from it mostly because the area we recently moved to is not particularly conducive to cycle riding (read the people in North Carolina drive like idiots so a motorcycle can be hazardous to your health).Were I younger, I would probably see another one in the future, but I have begun thinking, once again, of my first love...a 58 foot Alden ketch that stole my heart twenty-five years ago but has eluded me ever since. Chris Powell (5/26/2000; 19:38:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 31397) Gold: Can't bank with it, or without it http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/468? Fixing link -- sorry, folks!Gold sure is money, and bankers spent itall. Latest by Reg Howe, reposted at GATA:http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/468?To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by emailand get them immediately so you don't haveto go look for them, send an email to:gata-subscribe@eGroups.com Chris Powell (5/26/2000; 19:37:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 31396) (No Subject) Gold: Can't bank with it, or without it Gold sure is money, and bankers spent itall. Latest by Reg Howe, reposted at GATA:http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/468?To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by emailand get them immediately so you don't haveto go look for them, send an email to:gata-subscribe@eGroups.com JavaMan (5/26/2000; 19:24:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 31395) Hey HI - HAT... Things could be worse. As it turns out, it looks like my situation is going to resolve itself. Either I'm going to dump my equity dollars into another house soon, or "tough it out" in our present accommodations and transfer the dollars into the shiny yellow. One thing is for sure, those dollars are not going to sit in the bank for too long. In any case, independently of this, I have my core position that allows me to sleep all too well. Actually, I'm amazed at how I can be satisfied with my investment position, and then, be satisfied with my investment position. (smile) No roller coaster here, thank you. SHIFTY (5/26/2000; 18:36:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 31394) Java Man Will you buy a new bike when gold makes it move? TheStranger (5/26/2000; 18:34:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 31393) Aragorn III Sir Aragorn - For shame, indeed. I missed a great opportunity (upon which you quickly seized) to draw the distinction between paper and gold. You do raise one practical question, however. I know the world's supply of above-ground gold currently grows at something like 2% per year. Meanwhile, the world population apparently doubles every 30 years or so, also indicating a rate of increase of about 2%. I would assume that, the higher the price of gold, the greater the rate of production and vice versa. Doesn't this mean the amount of tradable gold would be almost thermostatically controlled by market forces in the long run? If so, would the distinction you draw still hold water? I don't know. I'm askin'.As always, I bask in your intellect. SHIFTY (5/26/2000; 18:32:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 31392) N.Y. Ponzi Nasdaq 3,205.11 + Dow 10,299.24 = 13,504.35 divide by 2 = 6,752.17 PonziDown 12.46 Ponzi points. Another Ponzi record low! HI - HAT (5/26/2000; 18:25:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 31391) Java Man ______________Dollars I guess we're going to be on our own with the cash-dollar question. Amazing how one can be satisfied with ones investment positions and then be on a roller-coaster of doubts in no time at all. JavaMan (5/26/2000; 18:25:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 31390) Leland, more OT... Ah, Sir Leland. You remind me of the time I took my (then) eleven year old daughter for her first ride. She had mixed emotions of eagerness and caution. With her on the back, I rode even more responsibly than usual. Her immediate suggestion was "ok, we can go back now." It was not a convenient point in time to comply with her request so we went a mile or so more and then I indicated we would turn back. Interestingly enough, her reaction was something like, "that's ok, we can go further now." She was loving it. And we rode for miles. Golden Truth (5/26/2000; 18:21:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 31389) PLATINUM and PALLADIUM Prices Soar as Supply Shortages Persist. http://www.LiveInvestorsForum.com Looks like the word is spreading about Supply Shortages. Please click on Link above for all the facts! It's a very good link for anyone interested in the white metals, you will not be disappointed! G.T P.S I was going through a very bad time in my private life the last couple of months. So if i posted something mean or bad i,am sorry, to anyone i might of torn a strip off of. I must say GOLD did help keep me alive it truly is a awesome Metal! Also F.O.A/T.G thankyou so much for staying here at this Forum after all the shit and abuse you recieve here sometimes, you truly are a Giant as in a Giant Hero, thanks man. We all luv yah!!!! Also to everyone else here a big thankyou, i have never learnt so much in a year and a half as i have on this forum. Job well done Men and Ladies. RAP (5/26/2000; 18:00:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 31388) Premiums on 2000 eagles? http://www.usmint.gov/bullion/annualsales/sales2000.cfm The US Mint put out more 1oz Gold eagles on Jan 1 1999 than they have to date this year. 6726/day in Jan 1999; 6500 total in 5 months this year.These might be worth investing in, if they don't make up for it later this year.RAP TownCrier (5/26/2000; 17:58:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 31387) Rotation...amendment to post To be sure, the rotation began earlier than yesterday. I meant to say the rotation began IN EARNEST yesterday... TownCrier (5/26/2000; 17:55:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 31386) Rotation With first notice day arriving Wednesday, and thus opening the window for the possibility of delivery on June COMEX gold contract, the rotation out of June and into August futures began yesterday concurrent with the despair among the longs in the face of a stiff paper selloff.In yesterday's action, only 34,911 June contracts were left in open interest as 15,986 contracts were closed out. At the same time, the open interest in August futures climbed by a similar 15,823 positions to 65,697 contracts.Following yesterday's action, COMEX open interest on gold contracts totaled 163,069, each a representing an individual wager on the price quoted for that same contract come expiration day. The typical payoff (or payout) is the cash difference between the entry point and the contract price at settlement, multiplied by 100 for the amount of ounces theoretically represented by and "under control" of each contract. R Powell (5/26/2000; 17:42:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 31385) Test Test, are we working? R Powell (5/26/2000; 17:37:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 31384) Gold shorts breaking ranks Farfel's 31354 post suggests that the group (cartel) of gold shorts might turn against the short position with the first among them covering their shorts(sales) at the lowest price. Yes, indeed, wouldn't that be a sight to behold and would certainly launch the POG. How much could one buy before being foundout? Warren Buffet started buying silver in the summer of 1997 and took possession from COMEX of about 79 million ounces before Philbro, his purchasing agent, was sued for (I believe) trying to corner the market as did the Hunt brothers once. This forced Buffet to reveal himself at which time he stated that he intended to buy a total of 129 million ounces which he did and moved them to London where he can better hide them. He did manage to buy, slowly over many months, 79 million ounces before he was discovered. I agree with Farfel that one or more of the big short positions will at some time (soon?) make a move to cover. Short covering= buying=POG liftoff or as they say at another well know forum, gold to the moon! Mr. Buffet's disclosure took silver to a high between $7.30-$7.40 on Feb. 5 1998. It happened very fast and IMHO the coming gold/ silver upmoves will be even quicker once they start. Farfel, congrats on the predictions! I'm quessing from the mellow tone of your recent words that success has soothed your disposition and lowered the bloodpressure. Keep up the good work but remember, greed costs money. Happy and safe Memorial Day to All... Leland (5/26/2000; 17:19:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 31383) aunuggets http://www.grasshoppernet.com/walrafen/badges.html Unfortunately, Texas Ranger Badges have become a commercialitem. Hopefully, this will not detract from the coinsused. aunuggets (5/26/2000; 16:50:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 31382) Leland - Texas Ranger Badges Don't forget to mention the beautiful Captains badges, many of which were made using Mexican 50 peso GOLD pieces. Personally think the 50p is one of the most beautiful designs available on the larger gold coins.....my favorite ! Aragorn III (5/26/2000; 16:32:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 31381) My kindest Sir PH in LA Such an effect as you describe is precisely that which I referred to as the "treat" which lay "in store for the holders of a monetary-type wealth asset that does not expand at the brisk pace of the economy."You will see that thought also reflected here..."As a happy consequence, where gold serves a use (storing wealth) that does not diminish in importance as the rest of economy grows and inflates, the purchasing power of gold will not only hold steady in the future, but will gain in purchasing power in accord with real economic growth against real gold growth."We would see such a "gain in purchasing power" reflected as lower prices, or as it were, a greater exchange rate against currency, whereas currency prices of all other things remain at bay.Thank you for pointing out that my core point was dreadfully shabby, and offering me this early opportunity to provide a redress.got gratitude! Leland (5/26/2000; 16:31:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 31380) @Sir Java, Totally Off-Topic One of my goals, you see I have a 6 year-old great granddaughter, is to put her behind me on my cruiserand cruise, and cruise. But, she's so small. It willbe about 3-4 more years before her feet will reach thepassenger footpegs. Oh, what a great time she and Iwill have TOGETHER! TownCrier (5/26/2000; 16:22:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 31379) Public service announcement, or shameless self-promotion? http://www.usagold.com/onlinestore/special.html Hello dear ladies and kind knights, one and all. Sorry to break into the flow of the discussion, but I have received word from MK that the available number of uncirculated German 20 mark gold coins is now down to the 500 level. These really are nice coins, and if you have no buying interest at this time, you will nontheless benefit from the educational page I have assembled at the link above.To those of you who showed your approval of our efforts to try this out, our sincerest thanks for making this endeavor a success. Michael promised me he would try to find something equally interesting for next month. (Personally, I doubt he can top the offer of these historically significant coins, but I stand prepared for anything.)Let the discussion continue! PH in LA (5/26/2000; 16:16:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 31378) An Overlooked Detail in Aragorn's Pragmatic Reality Esteemed Sir Aragorn:Please forgive my uneducated intrusion into your discussion with ORO with a suggestion that I have not heard voiced by either of you.Would it not be true in an economic system fixed on gold, that the increases you speak of in productivity, sheer biological reproductive growth, and the inevitable increase in overall social wealth (goods, services, even potential wealth) would be reflected in lower prices over the long term. We are all so accustomed to monetary growth that we assume that increases in economic activity must be compensated for by corresponding monetary growth. However, in another system, prices COULD go down over time, as value and wealth grows, at the same time and rate that society grows and progresses.Couldn't they? Aragorn III (5/26/2000; 15:51:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 31377) Seeking answers ORO, I must say I am pleased to find you so resolute on this, as seen concisely in your 31347 today. It would be too much to ask for you to be consistently "eating your peas and carrots" without these intermittant "tantrums" for "toys and ice cream". The patient parent would say, "That's my child, and I love him all the same!" In this regard, I appreciate your own indulgence in my steady fit to remove the monkey from off the back of gold. I am pleased to find you willing to deliver the fate of gold into the hands of bankers (under a structure to provide free banking if I correctly follow your intent), because it surely will stretch my abilities to show that it must be otherwise. I maintain that banks (under any structure of your choice, free or centrally supervised) and their willing customers may have the currencies of their own devising, but let the free people of the world have access to gold as an unmanipulated wealth asset.As I say, you will certainly test my abilities to frame a convincing case to set gold free from banking, so allow me to hold off on an engagement with you at this time, so that I may gather wisdom from all sides, perhaps asking for your brief input now and again on new facets as they develop, but saving you the chore of reiteration of your past case which has been duly made and noted.To begin, what was your response to my inquiry, "I am pleased that you have expressed respect for the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson as have I. Yet, must we not admit, if that great man's efforts could not forever stave off the evolution of banking as we have now come to know it, what likelihood is there for any better success in that regard going forward?" Or should I say what is the likelihood for success in rolling back the clock these few years? Then, let us look in this direction---->>There was a good post by TheStranger #31360 today that I did enjoy (yes, Stranger, to its very end. "Mas, mas".) He said, "...before one can assume this growth translates directly into rising prices ... one has to consider the mitigating influence of such things as growth in the size of the workforce ... and growth in productivity. These influences are what justify, even require, as a matter of fact, some growth in the monetary base."For shame!!! <grin> I know very well what this represents, but please do us this favor. Spare the forum MY tiring and belabored words, and explain more plainly if you will be so kind, so that all can see what treat is in store for the holders of a monetary-type wealth asset that does not expand at the brisk pace of the economy. ORO, please wait in the wings to explain why gold should be denied this day in the Sun in favor of your system. (If you reply before Stranger, you are not playing fair, and no ice cream for you!)You see, (addressed to all) too few people, with their measuring devices called "dollars", can successfully recognize what The Stranger is about to lay bare. That being (my predictive skills are feeling sharp today, forgive me) that most people are (at best) in tune with the inflation of a currency supply through the banking system, but they fail to properly recognize the true nature of inflation of all things under the Sun. More of this, more of that, more shoes, more people, more occasions of one man helping another (services), and perhaps a little less of a thing or two at times along the way. The economic base of available goods and services inflates, and its expanding real value (hard to measure with a shifty "dollar price", hard to measure with ANY price!)) reflects a "biological pattern" growth rate (at times exponential in sectors). Where the active currency inflates at a pace with all else in general, prices quoted in that currency are seen to be nearly constant. A debt currency that makes "venture capitalists" of us all (see my 5/19 #30828) can indeed be expanded at a pace as the occasion may demand. Whereas gold, contrary to ORO's assertion that "the quantity of [a] commodity money stays in proportion to the productive capacity of the economy as a whole", is a unique natural resource that can NOT be reasonably expected to keep pace with the biological (exponential) type growth of EVERTYTHING else in the productive lives of mankind. As a happy consequence, where gold serves a use (storing wealth) that does not diminish in importance as the rest of economy grows and inflates, the purchasing power of gold will not only hold steady in the future, but will gain in purchasing power in accord with real economic growth against real gold growth. Any use in banking--lending, derivatives, etc, --would provide additional, artificial growth of gold supply, thus hurting the gold holder's value. The effect to brace for, in the system I "throw tantrums for" is the initial adjustment for "free gold" to rise to its proper relative level among the real economy--which has raced ahead as PAPER gold called the tune while we have sung the blues.But we need more voices to weigh in on this, and we shall have them over time. Nearby I see mhchuck speaking to ORO on these matters...<<<mhchuck (5/26/2000; 11:01:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 31352) "You have condensed the issue along with the concomitant political chicanery into a compact stick of dynamite. This is one post I recommend all to read DAILY, as it is the fulcrum for all meaningful discussion related to the monetary issue. There is no gray area here....you have stated the truth plainly for all to see!>>>Yes, I agree that ORO in that post condensed his case nicely, as I continue to fail to do. Now mhchuck, please provide more commentary. Please share precisely what it is about preserving a degree of gold lending and derivatives that appeals to you as it so clearly does?I would appreciate others to share their thoughts on this matter also. Trail Guide, certainly, your thoughts as time allows? Thank you.got ice cream?got gold? Leland (5/26/2000; 15:43:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 31376) Sir Java, Editorial cartoonist are GREAT....Toronto has a SUPERB one! JavaMan (5/26/2000; 15:36:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 31375) Sir Leland... A picture IS worth a thousand words...and that picture spells out all too clearly what the U.S. priorities are. Leland (5/26/2000; 15:28:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 31374) PS..Don't Try to Order Any Pesos From Michael They are NOT one of his specialties...Darn! Leland (5/26/2000; 14:46:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 31373) On The Subject of "Real" Silver Mexican Pesos...Enjoyable History THE NEED FOR A BADGE During the second half of the 19th century, the biggest threat to Texas was lawless Texans. In 1874 the legislature created two Ranger forces to restore order; the Frontier Battalion, led by Major John B. Jones, and the Special Forces under Captain Leander McNelly. Feuds and disputes erupted over land, cattle and politics that involved local law enforcement agencies and hired guns. Maj. Jones's Texas Rangers were often called in to restore order. However, with local law enforcement in one camp or the other, they found it difficult to establish their authority. In south Texas, along the cattle-rich Nueces Strip, Mexican and American bandits ranged back and forth across the border killing citizens and stealing livestock. Capt. McNelly's small Special Force was given the monumental task of restoring order by ending the border violations and cattle rustling. However, there was no visible means of identifying McNelly and his men from the bands of outlaws roaming the area. In response, the Adjutant General of Texas issued Warrants of Authority to Range officers---impressive paper documents which were to be kept in the folds of their pockets. Sometime later enlisted men received paper commissions as well, but neither officers nor their men were issued "official" badges until 1935. If the Rangers needed to identify themselves as law officers, they were left to their own devices. THE FIRST BADGE The legend of Rangers cutting their own badges out of coins around campfires is myth. The earliest known "unofficial" Texas Ranger badges were made for individual Rangers from silver Mexican peso coins. Some were probably made by frontier watchmakers or jewelers, others may have been made by gunsmiths or metalworkers. A few Rangers ordered them from mail order firms. Photographs taken from 1870 through the 1920's reveal that very few Rangers wore badges since a lot of their work was undercover, but that there were several badge varieties. This makes the authentication of pre-1935 badges a difficult task usually requiring a reference collection such as that at the Texas Ranger Hall of Fame and Museum in Waco, Texas. AN OFFICIAL RANGER BADGE The first "official" Texas Ranger badge appeared in 1935 when the Texas Rangers became part of the Texas Department of Public Safety. The first badge was unpopular, and after another unpopular revision, Colonel Homer Garrison, Jr., then Director of the Texas Department of Public Safety and Chief of the Texas Rangers, announced in 1962 a return to the tradition-steeped badge worn by Texas Rangers during the frontier days. Col. Garrison stated "the new official Ranger badge, issued to each of the 62 members of the Force, is a replica of the historic original badge which old-time Rangers carved out of a Mexican five-peso silver coin", when the Republic of Texas became a state in the union and the Texas Ranger's duties changed from military to civil law enforcement. The Texas Ranger badge of the 21st century will still be made from the Mexican silver coin as it was in the 19th and 20th centuries. The oak leaves on the left side which represent strength, and the olive branch on the right which signifies peace, were taken from the Great Seal of Texas. The star is engraved with the Company designation (A, B, C, D, E, or F) or the rank of Sergeant, Captain or Senior Captain. The original flutes from the coins can usually be seen along the edges, and coin tampings are visible on the reverse side of the badge. The five point "Lone Star" surrounded by a "wheel" is a common motif in many early badges from the early 1800's. TheStranger (5/26/2000; 14:28:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 31372) Hipplebeck You are welcome and thank you too. Hipplebeck (5/26/2000; 14:05:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 31371) to Stranger Thank you for the discussion. It's how I learnI respect your opinion Farfel (5/26/2000; 14:02:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 31370) Closing market rally! (I'm fallible again:>)) Well, well, I guess the funds managers want ma and pa and family to feel good this long Memorial Day weekend about the stock market so she ended in a strong close. They can sit around the dinner table and imagine the bull market is still intact. It's difficult to predict exact daily movements but the trends seem fairly well defined now.Tuesday should be interesting, place your bets.And gold: well the spring grows tighter and the fellows holding her down don't seem to be getting along with each other the way they once did.Interesting times ahead. Have a great weekend and peace!ThanksF* MarkeTalk (5/26/2000; 13:44:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 31369) (No Subject) My, how the markets seem to be following the turning points which I outlined in my last two posts. I give credit to various sources which I read here at Centennial, i.e. R.E. McMaster and Steve Puetz, among others. First of all, the stock market rallied albeit anemically into the full moon time period (which happened to coincide with options expiry on the 19th) and promptly fell out of bed on Monday, May 22nd, and has continued lower with intervening rallies. The Bank of England gold auction took place on Tuesday, May 23rd which was followed by the usual suspects of shortsellers who knocked the price down to $270/oz. at one point yesterday. The U.S.Dollar Index broke critical support of 110.75 late in the day yesterday which unleashed an avalanche of selling today. The charts of the Euro and Swiss Franc look to be on bottom, with the Euro putting in a double bottom--a classic formation. Add to that news from Europe of intervention in support of the Euro plus higher crude oil prices (because all oil is priced in U.S. dollars) and you have a recipe for a classic turning point in the U.S. Dollar. Now, as the U.S. Dollar goes, so goes the U.S. stock market. Talk is now circulating that the Dow will break 10,000 and the Nasdaq will hit 2800 in the next 10 days or so. This is exactly the impetus for higher gold and silver prices that I have been waiting for. With the Memorial Day weekend upon us and multi-year cycle lows in the precious metals occurring now, we have a wonderful setup for a surprise rally. And don't forget the CRB Index which just keeps climbing little by little week by week. This is an old inflation indicator--although it has been disparaged lately--which even Alan Greenspan watches.So in summary: Lower stocks, lower U.S. Dollar, higher Euro and Swiss Franc plus higher CRB Index equal much higher gold and silver prices. As a final note: Premiums on bullion gold coins are on the rise signalling that the temporay glut due to Y2K selloff is now behind us. Don't believe the talk that there is a glut of physical gold on the market. This is just talk from the shortsellers. Trail Guide (5/26/2000; 13:27:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 31368) Comment PH in LA (5/26/2000; 11:15:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 31353)New essay at Golden SextantHello PH! Boy, Howe is talking to real people now! I think he is getting into the thick of it. (big smile) Trail Giude Trail Guide (5/26/2000; 13:21:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 31367) comment Hello GoldhunterIn your corrected post #: 31355 you say:------------ 18,500 100oz lots...1,850,518 total ozs.. of the REAL STUFF too...--------I ask, so what? You see, we all have been talking about comex gold for a year or so. The present fact that 1,850,518 ounces is laying in their vault, but owned by others doesn't do comex any good if someone wants to call for delivery. Right? You know, I know , we all know that this "Real Stuff" has no play to make credible my (3) or others outstanding "longs" unless the owners of that "real stuff", who are not "the comex operation", wish to sell it. TownCrier has written on and followed this for several months. This is old refuted news, my friend. You say:-------The largest commercial producers and consumers of commodities use these exchanges for price discovery, price protection (hedging long & short), and speculation for profits...------------Yes, this is good, but just because one of these "players" have placed some cash down and taken the other side of my (3) or others contracts in no way secures any gold to honor delivery. Right?In fact the entire total comex outstanding contracts mostly represents "margin" money on both sides of the contracts. Look at me? I'm new long and have only T-bills as 100% margin. 99% of the short players do not trade like me. They place appx. $2,000 +/- a thousand and go short! Do they have "uncommitted gold" to deliver? Usually not! The bulk of commercials only hold the paper version as a hedge against wholesale and retail operations. If they suddenly were called to deliver, they would have to buy outright most of the gold. That's because their customers would demand them to cover their deals too. Tell me have you done much international / commercial gold trading? I mostly just watch (smile).Is this what you call "gold on the ready" to be delivered from comex? NO? I'm glad you agree, because no one here accepts that perception anyway. Also: Comex is but a tiny fraction of paper gold traded around the world. But you knew that too. (smile)"paper gold, it's just for fun" "physical gold, it ain't for trading any more"When are you going to take us for a futures hike?thanksTrail Guide Journeyman (5/26/2000; 13:13:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 31366) Never too young to gamble @ALL - ~"That's why this market is so great; the investment community keeps getting younger and younger and younger." -Maria Bartaromo, comment about a thirteen-year-old caller asking about his COSTCO stock, CNBC, 26-May-00, 2:49:45 PMRegards, J. Solomon Weaver (5/26/2000; 12:52:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 31365) ? In the past 16 years or so, gold has been one of the worst leading indicators of consumer inflation compared to other familiar candidates. http://www.northerntrust.com/economic_research/us_reports/daily2000/daily_23may.html Even Gold Is Signaling Higher Inflation - Doesn't Kudlow Look At His Own Pet Indicator? Poor old Solomon SHIFTY (5/26/2000; 12:38:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 31364) ORO Oro: Please forgive me as I'm trying to get my gear together to get out in the field to do some prospecting. I will have to try to read your post again this afternoon. My comprehension is poor. I'm not a collage guy, heck I'm lucky I got through high school. I grew up in the sixties and seventies. SmileIf you can put it in a nut shell that may help. Till later this afternoon my friend. $hifty lamprey_65 (5/26/2000; 12:23:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 31363) The "Golden Dollar" Well, after the Susan B. Anthony flop, the mint needed the following:1. A coin that was round!2. A coin that could be distinguished from a quarter.So, they came up with the brass-bronze dollar. I have no problem with this part...it all makes sense (except it's too bad the darn thing turns ugly so quickly once in circulation).What I do have a problem with is the "Golden Dollar" marketing campain. They did this for popularity and it is deceptive. I do think, however, that it will have the opposite effect that many here have posted...mainly that once the populace learns it's not really gold, they'll wonder about the real thing. It's a step in the right direction.Oh, a silver dollar coin would have been the best way to go -- but then we would have to turn the definition of a "dollar" back about 35 years! aunuggets (5/26/2000; 12:11:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 31362) RS and others..."GOLDEN DOLLARS" RS, your mention of the "Golden Dollars" caused me to stop and wonder if maybe this is another part of the ploy to "desensitize" the public from the real thing. Very uncanny how close the colorization of these new dollar coins are to real gold coins, although they mimic 14 karat alloy more closely (the most widely distributed form of gold ?)Make it visible and make it abundant......but the clincher is "make it"..... Leland (5/26/2000; 12:00:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 31361) Only a Very Few Editorial Cartoons Are Worthy of Posting... http://www.thestar.com/thestar/editorial/opinion/20000526NEW01c_ED-CARTOON.html Thanks to THE TORONTO STAR. TheStranger (5/26/2000; 11:54:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 31360) Hipplebeck Thanks for your response. It has been about a year since I went to the Treasury Department's web site, so I am a little rusty on the numbers. But, up until that time at least, the U.S. really wasn't running a genuine surplus, yet. Instead, the purchase of government debt by the Social Security system had simply begun exceeding new issuance, creating the illusion at least, that the national debt was shrinking. Now, however, we actually have the Treasury buying back government bonds. So perhaps we are finally at surplus. I don't know, but it is easy to check out at the Treasury's web site. Anyway, I couldn't agree with you more about whether we are in a period of monetary expansion and reinflation. Clearly, we are, or rates would not be rising. But these things are very easy to exaggerate. Remember, depending on how you measure it, U.S. money growth in the past twelve months has been maybe 7 to 9 per cent. This is a lot, yes, and that is by any historical measure. But before one can assume this growth translates directly into rising prices of 7 - 9%, one has to consider the mitigating influence of such things as growth in the size of the workforce, which may be 2 or 3% per year and growth in productivity, which is very difficult to accurately measure, for a variety of reasons, but may be somewhere around 3%. These influences are what justify, even require, as a matter of fact, some growth in the monetary base.Put all of this together, and you get the makings of maybe 5% inflation in America today, but there is certainly nothing in the figures yet which would indicate much more than that. Can the numbers change? Sure, and they will. But we will have to take them as they come to see where things are headed next.In the meantime, if you define inflation the way the dictionary does (growth in the supply of money), then you are correct. America is inflating her way out of debt. But if you define inflation simply as a loss of buying power, then you are only a little bit right, because loss of buying power in the dollar has been nowhere near sufficient to account for the improvement in the nation's balance sheet.I believe 5% inflation, in a world which was threatened by DEflation as recently as 15 months ago, ought to be sufficient to turn around a 20 year bear market in gold. It has, after all, been enough to turn around long-term bear markets in most other commodities. But so far, for reasons we both read about daily here at the forum, I have been wrong about that.Now, about productivity. If you travel around the world much, you see American food products everywhere. Heinz Ketchup from Pittsburgh is ubiquitous. So is Coca Cola made with syrup from Atlanta. So are a myriad of other American consumer products from pharmaceuticals to computer software. Believe me, our productivity may be a myth to you, but it is not to our trading partners. Indeed, we are so efficient that American companies often farm out many of our least productive tasks to poorer countries. Many of our imports, in fact, are produced by factories owned elsewhere by our very own corporations. This is why, some years back, the Labor Department switched from reporting GNP (Gross National Product) in favor of reporting GDP (Gross Domestic Product). Now, to your final question: "If you were running a retail business. and you were able to secure very cheap products because of very cheap labor yet stillcharge a high price for your product, where should the productivity credit go? Here, it goes to you because it looks like youhave high productivity, but in reality, who is doing the producing?"Hipplebeck, I suspect you were asking this question rhetorically, but it still begs an answer. If productivity were measured by the weight of that which is being produced then the poor soul in Bangladesh or Botswana takes the prize. But productivity isn't measured that way and never should be. Instead it is measured in value received, in short, how well it pays. The guy in Bangladesh walks to work, sometimes without shoes. He often has bad teeth and may not be able to read or write. But even if he had none of these problems, his application to work at, say, the Gap in Cincinnati wouldn't be approved anyway, because he can't get to where the customer is. All of these problems impose de facto limitations on the man's productivity which are not shared by even the typical American teenager. This is why the typical American teenager's labor has more value, and it accounts for why he gets the bigger paycheck.Is this a pleasant state of affairs? No. Everyone on the planet ought to have equal access to the fruits of a productive life. I believe someday everyone will. But it will never happen so long as people are restrained in their endeavors by trade barriers that are designed to punish some to the benefit of others.I very much regret the length of this post. I won't blame anyone who deliberately passes it over. But, if you read this far, thanks. I hope it was worth it. Tom (5/26/2000; 11:36:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 31359) THANKS to Farfel Farfel I really appreciate your insight! Yep I have made some mistakes the last few years on gold and the gold stocksafter doin this for 30 years now then I found out THEY wuzscrewin with the market, same as the 1976-78, Paul Volker and the IMF, thenJEZAM I made a fortune between 78-84 and traded a BEAR market for the better part of 20 years with GOOD success cept the past 3 years.This comin JUMP in gold will be for REAL and will DWARFany move we have seen in the past.Stay tuned.Tom goldhunter (5/26/2000; 11:33:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 31358) Comex http://www.usagold.com I meant to type 18,500 100oz lots...1,850,518 total ozs.Please forgive my calculator.Good Day. beesting (5/26/2000; 11:28:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 31357) A little more info on Gold Fields Ltd. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/000515/gold_field_1.html This news release is a little old(05/15/2000) but may be the reason Gold Fields sent yesterdays warnings to investors.Monday May 15, 6:48 am Eastern TimeCompany Press ReleaseSOURCE: Gold Fields LimitedGold Fields Clinches a Deal with AshantiJOHANNESBURG, May 15 /PRNewswire/ -- Gold Fields Limited (Nasdaq: GOLD; JSE: GFI)today announced that it has reached agreement to acquire a portion of Teberebie Mine's assets fromthe Ghana mining company Ashanti Goldfields pursuant to Ashanti acquiring Teberebie from PioneerGroup Inc.The assets to be acquired by Gold Fields are located on the northern portion of the Teberebie mineand are adjacent to Gold Fields Tarkwa operations. The assets include heap-leach pads and theirassociated crushing agglomerations and stacking facilities. In addition, Gold Fields will be acquiringapproximately one-million ounces of resources suitable to carbon-in-leach processing.The consideration for this transaction is a payment of approximately US$5 million dependent on thetiming of payments.This transaction will enable Tarkwa Mine, a subsidiary of Gold Fields, to increase productionsignificantly.Completion of this transaction is subject to certain conditions such as bank creditors, which isexpected in the next few weeks.Gold Fields Limited is one of the largest gold producers in the world, with annual production inexcess of 4 million ounces, proven and probable reserves of 74 million ounces and resources of 152million ounces. Gold Fields trades on the Johannesburg Stock Exchange (GFI), as well as onNasdaq (GOLD) and on the London, Paris, Brussels, and Swiss stock exchanges.beesting comment:We have learned Ashanti was financially advised by Goldman Sachs, last year.Ashanti had major problems when the price of Gold shot up after the Washington Agreement(09/28/1999).To me this news release shows Gold Fields Ltd. is some how involved with Ashanti.Possibly assuming some of Ashanti's debt burden in exchange for Gold in the ground assets.Anytime ANYONE is involved with those slick bankers, especially the ones backed by Governments, WATCH OUT!!! The playing deck is usually stacked in favor of the house(bank, lender,whoever)Bottom line:Could everyone involved be fighting over the Gold in the ground???....beesting. ORO (5/26/2000; 11:27:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 31356) SHIFTY your 31251 The motives have allways been:Eliminate competition in the markets you sell into.Lower costs by eliminating competition for your inputs (including labor).Free markets were never something a large established business wanted. They would allways want to maintain their hold. In the attempts to do this, governments were purchased and cartels created with government used to maintain the cartels and enforce them. The problem: If your costs are minimized than you will have no market into which to sell your product. What is the value to you of a great profit if the only thing you can buy is your own product? Do you really care to micromanage everyone's life if your bunch of cartels "wins"? Would not this control cost as much as paying a fair wage and charging a market price?So, a solution of sorts came about in dividing the world into a target market for which all compete and a supply market, where all activity for local economic benefit is diverted into the supply for the target markets.The people of the target market were to become the unwitting beneficiaries of the enslavement of the new "colonies". In the target markets there was still a need to create the official funds that the businesses would need to earn profit in, and in the source markets these funds would have to be made impossible to get. You could not do this with gold or silver, only with cartel money - the factory scrip - that the "emerging economies" would receive from the "factory", but must use in order to buy the basics from the "factory store" and the scrip they borrowed in order to build the "national projects" - those white elephants that the World Bank has its dependents build in order for the countries to destroy themselves. This was what Bretton Woods was all about. The victors - USA and UK + commonwealth, but mostly the US were to own the rebuilding Europe lock stock and barrel and keep Germans, Italians and French on a tight indenture of debt service. Not realizing that people create the stuff of economies - not monetary capital - the Europeans, partially helped by spending from the presence of US and UK troops, bought the bare minimum needed for survival and for building manufacturing capacity. With no regulation (since there was nearly no government at all) these factories were simply built themselves from old scraps and lots of effort. Within an astoundingly short time, Europe had a trade surplus and soon became a creditor to other countries, most notably creditors to the US and UK. By the late 50s Europe was financially independent and had growing piles of reserves. Germany was rebuilt, France was nearly 1/3 modernized, Italy close to 1/4. The dollar trap was too loose and the prey managed to get loose and was stalking the US itself. A simillar situation emerged in Japan. First Europe, and much later Japan, used the plan for the Anglo bank cartel's version of the "Third Reich" to put themselves on an even keel with the US and to overtake the UK. For the Anglo bankers it completely backfired. Europe had to become part of the "target" markets zone and new "sourcees" had to be found. Hence the "investment" in Taiwan and other emerging nations. The 70s saw some of emerging Asia and to some extent Latin America, become cash flow positive. It nearly destroyed the dollar completely. In order to undo this danger, Volcker pulled the rug from under the global currency markets by reducing the monetary base by 1/2. Interest spreads between the emerging market debtors and US rates expanded to incredible proportions. The Emerging economies saw their governments print growing amounts of local currency in a futile attempt to cover the dollar debt by selling more and more freshly printed currency in order to obtain the dollars coming due on the loans and for the buildup of cash dollars and dollar credit lines to purchase oil. The "easy money" of a few years before had turned into a debt trap. Anything that could be sold for dollars was dumped on the markets. Copper, mines, real estate, bananas, people, governments...anything that was for sale. The US managed to have dictators installed nearly everywhere through the chaos arrizing from destruction of the local currencies by the dollar debt traps.In Mexico, for example, the per capita real GDP ROSE at an average rate of 6% in 1977-1987. Real per capita personal incomes FELL at a rate of 4%. Mexicans produced 6% more every year, but lost 4% of their income every year. Their consumption fell from 90% of their production to a low level of less than 68%, yet they largely maintained a current accounts deficit because of the dollar debt created by their government distorting the value of their production. More of these examples abound, they are the rule and exceptions are few.(data from IMF International Financial Statistics - the current "Doomsday Book") goldhunter (5/26/2000; 11:26:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 31355) No "House of Cards" there either... http://www.usagold.com The Comex just reported that they have 1,850 (100)ozs. of the REAL STUFF too...This is not posted to steal any customers....It is to inform all that Comex will probably open on Tuesday.Humor.I do not have any evidence at this time (Netking, from yesterday)That Comex is in danger of any lock-up or closing.The largest commercial producers and consumers of commodities use these exchanges for price discovery, price protection (hedging long & short), and speculation for profits...unfortunately, the bears have been winning lately. Farfel (5/26/2000; 11:16:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 31354) The Nasdaq, Gold, and Goldman Sachs Well, I must say that, not since I was a young man playing the stock market, have I called the trends so accurately.It may sound arrogant to say this but I cannot help but be amazed how things have changed for me. Over the past few years, I could NOT get anything right, making one bad call after another, watching my bank account disappear. A complete failure on my part to analyze the psychology of the markets properly. And now it seems I cannot get anything wrong. What a turn of events!So what the hell: I'll keep making calls and see how long this hot streak lasts.Today my sense is that most people do not want to go into the long weekend holding long stock positions. There could be an amazing dump later today as people prefer to relax by the pool this weekend rather than think about how badly their stocks might do. Too much tumult in the world right, too many potential negative left field events, from problems in Israel to Clinton's Arkansas disbarment.The other factor suggesting a huge dump at day's end is the fact that another huge amount of IPO lockup stock gets "set free" on Monday. SO by Tuesday, one would expect more billions of lockup sales to overwhelm any potential market funds inflows. Those in the know probably want to start dumping Naz stocks today.Then by late Tuesday or Wednesday, the market could have its selling climax, with the Dow dropping below 10,000 and the Naz falling below 3000, then possibly turn around and make another strong upswing. In fact the market could see good strength until June 4-5 when yet another huge amount of IPO lockup goes free, acting to trigger another strong bear phase.With respect to gold, it seems all hell is about to break loose and the result should be an amazing price explosion. The trigger: the escalating war between major investment firms, triggered by GS and its rapidly failing relationship with Merrill and Donaldson Lufkin. First GS "stole" a huge bridge loan deal from MER and Donaldson; that was followed by MER's astounding downgrade of GS. As I wrote previously on this forum, I really believe that there are primarily two possible ways in which gold will break free of the shackles imposed by the bullion bank cartel:1. The cartel must fall apart in a war amongst various warring factions, with each faction seeking to screw the other. Quite possibly, the faction that fires the first shot may act solely as a proxy for OTHER investment firm heavyweights OUTSIDE the cartel (such as Merrill or Donaldson, for example) Given that most bullion banks hold huge gold short positions, then the first bullion bank to cover its gold short WINS at the expense of the rest. Thereafter, the victor can walk across the battlefield and collect the remains of the defeated for pennies on the dollar.2. A left field news development of such negative magnitude that it pounds the US dollar out of its bull trend, thereby causing weakness in bonds and stocks, leaving gold as the only potential stable flight to safety.Another prediction: I would not be surprised if the developing investment bank war soon triggers a war on Barrick. Again, I cannot restate often enough how Barrick is one of the central culprits behind gold price weakness. Selling foward multi-years of future gold production, this company has been a notable factor in bulldozing the gold price into the ground and thus destroying much of the remaining industry.Who will launch the war on Barrick? Well, this time, it might come from investment firms hostile to GS and cognizant that Barrick, as a large gold shorting client of GS, represents a notable Achilles Heel in the GS army against gold. Once one major investment firm launches an attack on Barrick, then just watch how many major gold producers join in and fire their own aggressive salvos. After all, Barrick's billions in profits have come at the expense of most of the other senior producers who, by virtue of this horrible gold bear, have become hobbled, weak medium size producersAnd this time, if an investment firm heavyweight gets behind a big gold price surge, there is a real chance the surge will get some amazing legs. For example, just imagine if MER or another financial heavyweight convinces the Europeans to back the EURO with 30% gold reserves! Oh, oh! As part of this strategy, the investment firm going to war with GS could simultaneously create long positions in various currency carry trades (like the Canadian and Aussie Dollars) and go to war with them there by forcing a short cover in those currencies.Of course, I could have the whole hypothetical scenario assbackwards. It could be that in this upcoming war, it is GS and Barrick who make the first move to cover their physical gold shorts at the expense of the others. While talking badly about gold out of one side of their mouths to fellow members of the bullion bank cartel, Barrick and GS could move secretly and rapidly to create the conditions for a gold upspike that would bury the other members. After all, GS's sneaky tactics with respect to grabbing major bridge loan busines away from MER (as reported in the WSJ) prove that this firm is willing to do almost anything to anybody in order to maximize its profits.Bottom line: the gold short positions are amazing powder kegs and represent the real Achilles heels to the bullion banks. It is only now a matter of time before some shrewd antagonist makes a move that forces a panic cover. There is a real financial war out there and the combatants fully well know how best to win it.ThanksF* PH in LA (5/26/2000; 11:15:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 31353) New essay at Golden Sextant http://www.goldensextant.com/commentary12.html#anchor341719 Anyone even thinking of accusing FOA/Another of being on the fringe, far out in left field somewhere, must address the question: Why are so many thoughtful observers and commentators reaching the same conclusions...? "...An old saying, long forgotten, is about to take on new life: "There's no rush like a gold rush, and no run like a bank run." In these circumstances, the safest gold is not in bank storage of any variety. It rests in more imaginative places: the snake pit, the closet with the black widow spiders, or buried in the backyard near the Doberman's bone and well-within range of his leash." Reginald Howe at (www.Goldensextant.com) mhchuck (5/26/2000; 11:01:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 31352) ORO message # 31347 ORO, If this post isn't a Hall Of Fame post, I AIN'T never seen one. You have condensed the issue along with the concomitant political chicanery into a compact stick of dynamite. This is one post I recommend all to read DAILY, as it is the fulcrum for all meaningful discussion related to the monetary issue. There is no gray area here....you havestated the truth plainly for all to see! Many thanks for all your efforts. PH in LA (5/26/2000; 10:44:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 31351) Dollar/Euro exchange update Big drop in the dollar versus the euro today: Dollar down almost 3% since this time yesterday... RossL (5/26/2000; 10:44:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 31350) The money that the people want This is an excellent discussion today about the money that the people really wants. Credit cards are obviously very popular. My rhetorical question for today is: Would people run up excessive debts if they knew it had to be paid back in hard money?This may come across as cynical, but I believe that most Americans who have maxed out credit cards do not ever really intend to pay them off. They intend to default because they know deep down inside that the money is not real. beesting (5/26/2000; 10:36:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 31349) @ Sir, Hill Billy Mitchell # 31317--Trucking and Gold. Sir, it seems we have the exact same philosophy when it comes to self-imposed rules.Your writings:<<My self-imposed rule works like this. I never spend more than I earn on a month to month basis unless the expenditure is funded with prior savings, ie. I would not buy real estate with funds obtained from a loan; however I would buy real estate or a vehicle or income producing assets in excess of one month's earnings if and only if I had the cash to do so from prior savings. I know that this would seem be a bit too extreme but it works for me.>A little off subject but here goes,IMHO, the trucking business is like any other business. The larger the expenditures the more cash backing the business needs to stay solvent. Most businesses and people use the banks easy credit terms for the cash backing, they've been TAUGHT to use (here in the USA) since childhood.They lose their own hard earned cash every time they have to pay interest. My own trucking business was backed by me(money in liquid investments).Hence I received a good education in investing, a good education in running a business, a good education in mechanical stuff.(poor education in the literary field, as you can see.)What does this have to do with Gold?Everything!!! If the old time solvent bankers backed all the small investors in a town on their business ventures with money lending, including interest payments, think about what the bank used as collateral of last resort. Answer...GOLD!! You can do that too!!!If a person was able to by-pass banking almost completely(very hard to do in the USA, but possible) think of all the interest and fees that would be saved over a life time.Here is something else to think about:If a person makes payments on real estate loans for 25-30 years or more they usually end up paying 3 times or more what the original cost of the real estate was. Who gets that all that money? Answer, your friendly banker, thats why after 30 years in business a bank can afford to build a new building, and your real estate is by this time in need of repairs.Those in the Know...Buy Gold...beesting. RS (5/26/2000; 9:33:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 31348) Mr. Oro your msg 31347.... Very well stated. My hat is off to you, sir! YES! ORO (5/26/2000; 9:24:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 31347) AragornIII - Past and principle What I have been putting up is an analysis relating to the nature of money in its various forms. The historical points are just used for the purpose of demonstration.What I am criticizing repeatedly is the notion that "human nature" had anything to do with the actual choices made in banking and currency development over the centuries, particularly the last two. The point is that paper money based on debt is unworkable on its own. The basic concept put forward by Aristotle, yourself and FOA for a "free gold" parallel to a pure debt money with a monetary base tied to gold through an inaccessible reserve is as unworkable as all the previous attempts at maintaining debt money.It boils down to this: debt money is a device for the re-allocation of resources from those who made them to those who did not. Without a substantial effect on this allocation in favor of bank and government interests, there would not be any profit in running a debt money system at all. Yet, the shift of resource control from the productive to the wasteful reduces the total resources available, be they products, services or wealth.Because of this, all debt money is destructive, a negative sum game. The fact that people have succumbed to having the wool pulled over their eyes, and let thieves take their deposits does not mean that the people at large were getting what they wanted. It also does not mean that the people do themselves any good by getting from government what they do want; "democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner", to which I will add that the next day there would only be the two wolves and they will have to eat each other since the sheep has been eaten.Eating someone else's seed corn may satisfy your hunger now, but you will be denied the corn next season.Taking someone else's seed corn to plant for yourself does not make more corn. It just lets you control the corn, even if it makes for a lesser amount of corn at harvest.Government does the first, bank cartels do the second.History has not shown that "people" want the debt money. History has shown that uneducated people who will not think for themselves and stay vigilant against thieves will have debt money imposed on them by these thieves. "If you don't watch the chicken coop you will find no chickens there". RS (5/26/2000; 9:22:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 31346) Correction to msg #31345 That last line should have read:Thank God we live in an affleunt nation... RS (5/26/2000; 9:19:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 31345) "Golden dollars" Decal seen on a coin-op vending machine:"Use the GOLDEN DOLLAR here!"(refers to the new "dollar" coin)What a perverse joke, and an insult to those who gave their blood to the founding of this nation.Ever get your hands on a Mexican coin?They're always rusty, decomposing back to their natural state: iron oxide, also known as dirt.Thank god we live in an affleunt nation where we can afford coins made of zinc. :^)-------------------------------------------------"There's a sucker born every minute" -P.T. Barnum TownCrier (5/26/2000; 9:14:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 31344) Good news for the acquisition-minded http://www.usagold.com/onlinestore/special.html Yesterday's selloff on the COMEX futures market means that the real stuff can be had at even better prices (while supplies last, naturally.) Some of you may have already noticed yesterday that our on-line featured gold coin, the uncirculated German 20 mark, is now available for the nice price of $75 per each.As you plan and stock up for your holiday weekend events, you might be more at ease knowing you've secured your own small handful of these beauties--no matter what may happen in the rest of the world's markets while the U.S. has been "gone fishin'" on Monday. SHIFTY (5/26/2000; 9:08:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 31343) Henri If your thought's about Goldfields are correct, lets hope that Chris Thompson gives that door a good swift kick.lol$hifty TownCrier (5/26/2000; 8:55:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 31342) Memorial Day reading list at the Gilded Opinion http://www.usagold.com/THEGILDEDOPINION.html Plenty of new material for you to enjoy over the long weekend, and some old classic you may want to get familiar with again...plus some others that are currently in the pipeline (or, seeing that this is a gold forum, should I say, on the conveyor belt or leach pad?) Henri (5/26/2000; 8:36:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 31341) Gold fields announcement/warning I'm just guessing but maybe they ran foul with one or more bullion banks who threatened downgrading of their credit if they didn't sell some gold to them in a forward delivery contract. As I understand it they are mostly unhedged. Amazing what leverage a bank can have on your operations with even just a toe in the door. Black Blade (5/26/2000; 7:31:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 31340) Link to more accurate price quotes. http://www.thebulliondesk.com/ This link is a fairly new one and updates every few seconds. Black Blade (5/26/2000; 7:22:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 31339) POG Fake Out at Kitco, Again. Never mind. The Kitco Chart and quote is a fake. Gold is comatose this morning. Bummer! Christopher (5/26/2000; 7:15:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 31338) Al Fulchino Hey Al,When does the plane leave???P.S. Mr.HI-HAT(I always call a man with 40 guns MR.) If you read this then rest assured, as far as you know, we are kidding. But seriously, if you do ever happen to misplace your treasure, I would happily offer my services to help you relocate it.Christopher Black Blade (5/26/2000; 6:36:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 31337) Gold perking up nicely! Au is getting mighty frisky, now up $3.70 at $273.60! So much for the Morning Wakeup Call doldrums. Goldfly (5/26/2000; 6:30:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 31336) That $3 spike on Kitco.... .... is a phantom..... Black Blade (5/26/2000; 6:23:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 31335) Morning Wakeup Call! Source: Bridge News Asia Precious Metals Review: Platinum extends lossesBy Hiroyuki Fujiwara, BridgeNewsTokyo--May 26--Spot platinum extended previous day's losses due to massive profit taking on Friday in Asia after failing to rebound early in the morning, dealers said. Gold hovered just above U.S. $270 per ounce after being supported at the key psychological level, they said. Overnight decline on NYMEX platinum market following weaker Asian market discouraged players on the Tokyo Commodity Exchange (TOCOM) on Friday, the dealers said. Spot platinum declined below the key $550 on Friday in step with weak TOCOM. Many players expect prices could be supported in the near term on expectations of stronger demand, but few tried to start buying ahead of the weekend, they said.Black Blade: Could get ugly again today. Nikkei dropped -239.68 overnight, nipping at 16000! Hang Seng down -198.36 to 13722.7Europe Precious Metals Review: Gold, silver stabilize at lowsBy Gavin Maguire, BridgeNewsLondon--May 26--Gold prices centered on the U.S. $270 per ounce area through the morning after having thinly traded around there overnight in the aftermath of Thursday's fall to eight-month lows. Dealers said conditions were expected to stay flat for the rest of the day ahead of the long weekend and a short trading day in the United States. Silver was also subdued but managed to recover the $4.90 level, while platinum was virtually untraded. Sources said the thin conditions ahead of the long weekend and Memorial Day holiday are widely expected to keep levels of trade to a minimum, although one dealer said spot metal may attempt a corrective bounce back to the $272 area over the course of the day. "It was a pretty harsh move although I think everyone is quite relieved we've finally broken out of that boring range and can bring some new numbers in to play. However, I'd be depressed but not surprised if we went straight back up to $272-277 early next week," the dealer added. "There's a lot to be said for the idea of market equilibrium, and with physical demand remaining good at $270 and profit-taking and other liquidation always appearing at $280, it seems we're destined to stay between those levels at least for now," he lamented. Silver managed to scrape itself off the 11-month lows seen late Thursday and overnight to resurface in the $4.91 region. However, like gold, spot metal's movement is expected to be prohibited by the thin conditions, and continued sideways trade is foreseen for the rest of the day, sources said. Platinum and palladium traded intermittently at overnight levels and are expected to hover near current levels for the next few days.Black Blade: That's about it. I think I'll go fishing and have a few six-packs. goldhunter (5/26/2000; 5:43:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 31334) Mis-spell http://www.usagold.com I meant: A very "good" definition... Sorry. Hipplebeck (5/26/2000; 4:33:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 31333) definition of a derivitive A wallet so fat with counterfiet money that it still intimidates everyone into capitulation goldhunter (5/26/2000; 4:21:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 31332) Good morning http://www.usagold.com A very goog definition of (spot)the price of gold was offered by Mr. Town Crier last night...And from spot gold (derived from futures) all coin/physical dealers adjust their gold up and down (a deivative from a derivative?) and as I mentioned before, both are linked...They move together...So why will futures out-perform physical in our contest?Because when you buy futures the buy/sell spread is more efficient (smaller) than that of a physical dealer...The two golds move up/down in step, however the more efficient market will "return more" to the holder...FOA can use any price he chooses? What is that all about? It's not "My RULES" It's not "HIS RULES" It's a comparison FAIR and HONEST...He sold his KRands for $270 If you buy KRands to compare the BUY with futures you paid $282 The comparison Dec futures price is $283.30.As HE says: we'll ALL watch together.(Happy Memorial Day everyone...be back Mon nite) Aragorn III (5/26/2000; 3:29:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 31331) An initial reply for ORO Your post yesterday at 31228 was a nice piece of work! A treat to read, as it always is with I.V. Holtzman, too.I have had some time to consider your thoughts from the 5/19 post #30860, but have not yet found the means to assemble my notes into a fashion that would be of any use to you...rather fractional and loosely connected they are.With the moment I have, allow me to offer this to prepare the table for the famine that is sure to follow. <grin>We are fortunate to have an aged father time as our honest and steady guide. Seeing that I have taken his hand--in a manner of speaking--do not let my willing rejection of any of a wide number of bygone systems (fixed gold standard, free banking, etc.) serve as an impeachment of the merits to be found with such systems. As an individual, I assure you my own opinion matters as little as your own, as humbling as it may be for two thoughtful persons to acknowledge. Rather, we would be mindful to accept that each system in turn (whether or not it earned our approval, skepticism, or scorn) could not survive the dynamic forces of an evolving civilization of mankind.I am pleased that you have expressed respect for the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson as have I. Yet, must we not admit, if that great man's efforts could not forever stave off the evolution of banking as we have now come to know it, what likelihood is there for any better success in that regard going forward? Our task, it would seem, is not to attempt replication of "a snapshot of our past" with expectations of applicable success in our present world, but rather to draw upon past lessons in the effort to nurture a viable hybrid...something not seen before for a world that is not as before. And while it is true that there is nothing "perfect" under the Sun, there is also nothing "new" under the Sun, either. So, as with all things done by the hand of man, we must be prepared to settle for something less than textbook perfection while striving at least for "as good as it gets". Gold finds its proper role precisely there. As you envision bringing gold into its nearest state of perfection (an ancient role quite alien to the common banking mind), you will perhaps more readily see how all else must fall into place.While those with an eye for value endure, nay, enjoy these times to acquire metal, we see many people with their gold mining shares underwater calling rightly (though positioned poorly) for an end to their gold lending and hedging. I say, "Give the people what they want!"got gold?And in the kindest spirit, a la Roberto Duran, I say to totalamateur, "No mas, no mas". Hipplebeck (5/26/2000; 3:02:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 31330) To whom it may concern Oil,, the foundation of energy, agriculture and plastics is still risingGold is fallingIf this is not a buying opportunity for gold, then my whole reality is topsy-turvey.I get so excited sometimes because it is so obvious where this is headed. I think to myself 'This is just too easy, you must be missing something', but sometimes only a small number of people see the obvious.Don't lose faith fellow gold bugs, big events unfold. Hipplebeck (5/26/2000; 2:43:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 31329) To Stranger Absolutely no offence taken.Thank you for engaging me in conversation.I see your point about debt in relation to the overall economy, but isn't this just because they have flooded us with money? I've been saying for the last 10 years that the only way the government can pay off the debt is to inflate their way out.Wasn't it just a few short years ago that the debate in congress was the huge deficit and balancing the budget etc,? And now, poof, there is a surplus. Haven't they have just inflated the other side of the equation? I still believe our productivity is an illusion riding on the backs of those workers out there in the world who are working long and hard for very little. We are reaping the rewards of their work because they still don't understand the ponzi nature of the U S dollar. If you were running a retail business. and you were able to secure very cheap products because of very cheap labor yet still charge a high price for your product, where should the productivity credit go? Here, it goes to you because it looks like you have high productivity, but in reality, who is doing the producing? ORO (5/26/2000; 2:25:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 31328) Perplexed - comments Perplexed (5/25/2000; 23:00:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 31315)Perplexed Yours:" The American currency system, sans gold, in the last 50 years, has served as the engine for the creation of more world wide wealth than at any previous time in world history. There is more prosperity, better health care, and increased longivity under the American financial system, than at any time in recorded history..."First, general principles: The nation receiving imports and paying out paper is a beneficiary of trade. The nation exporting and accepting paper is being fleeced. The only way to preven this is through the use of commodity money to settle trade. The great benefit to the exporter is the buildup of productive capacity. The great detriment to the importer is the loss of productive capacity. What you say is true, however, the beneficiaries of a disproportionate piece of the improvement are those in the creditor nations and those in the intermediary nation (US). Furthermore, the benefits to Europeans, Japanese and Americans were a result of importation of underpriced goods. The underpriced goods were a result of the Bretton Woods currency system and its "floating exchange rate" successor and the debt traps it spawned.My point has been that the US dollar was "sans gold" for only the period 1976-1982, and during the period 1971-1976 many in the financial world were still hoping to see a return to a gold backed dollar. The period 1983-1999 saw a limited defacto gold standard in international trade. Mexico's level of industrialization has increased dramatically, as had its people's productivity, yet they are living in hovels, the narrow upper class has become narrower, and the bulk of the middle class disappeared. Same in Argentina and Brazil, and practically any other nation in Latin America. Why? Because the US is the main beneficiary of their productivity. How? By mispricing of the dollar through debt traps into which their incompetent leaders threw them. Why could the leadership do so? Because the people accepted a doctrine that said that the government can take on debt in the name of its people and enforce its collection through the currency system." If gold was the key ingrediant to a successful civilization, then the Inca and Aztec nations should have been paradise on earth."Here we are confusing things - the key to understanding gold's monetary function is that it is a facillitator of wealth creation and guardian of it. It assures only that the monetary system leaves the benefits of the productive person's efforts to himself. It is the lowest cost mechanism for conducting trade. It can't create a washing machine, or build a sheet steel mill. It can't negate the effects of constrictive trade policy, nor of destructive regulation; nor can it make a cleptocracy such as our own more productive than an equitable system. It only makes clear that purchasing power is stolen from us in taxes rather than hidden within inflation of the currency, and makes avoidance of theft by the official sector easier. In the international arena, the gold system provides much greater equity since it becomes the denominator of debt and is cash. Its use does not allow plunder without an army, so that the victims are clearly aware of what is happening. No one nation has a monopoly on its creation, and no cartel can completely dominate its existing stock nor its continuing production. In the debt currency world, the reserve currency producer is priveleged to create the money that all must use for trade (through an international agreement among the governments of the main economies). The debtors must supply real goods and services in order to supply the reserve currency to settle debt. The terms of international trade make nothing but the reserve currency as a practically available for medium for taking on debt. The fact that the debtor nations can't produce the reserve currency at will increases their interest rate burden relative to the reserve issuer's. When the US cut the dollar's tie to gold, it started losing its reserve position. When our banker friends in London reattached the dollar to gold, it stopped the slide - at least till last year.Yours:"Do I believe in physical gold? YES! Do I own physical gold? YES! Do I believe that gold is the only viable money? NO!Do I believe that the system is in trouble? Without doubt! The fault however belongs to the selling of our following generations into indentured servitude by our current government representatives. The Federal Reserve is nothing but an accomplice."It is interesting that inflation is only now being noticed by "news" media, it has been a fact of life beginning with the first "deficit budget." Inflation has been hidden in clear sight since at least 1960, and there has always been only three ways to eliminate it, Taxation, default, or inflation. We all recognize taxation to be a dirty word, we desire the benefits, but hate the cost. Inflation, only as a last resort. Default, a LAST LAST resort. "Some may be shocked to hear this from me, but I am not a "believer in gold". I recognize the reality of there being many possible mechanisms by which one could substitute a different "wealth money" for gold. Not only a "commodity money". However, each has its limitations and gold has timely practical advantages over any other bassis for a monetary system: we know it works, we have the gold created already, and the public will tend to go along with those who insist on gold even if they don't understand it, because the folklore makes it familliar.The selling of the future is not really possible because the debt is not collectable. For collection to be possible, the US government must retain allegiance with the creditors in the face of the impoverishment of the many that collection would cause. The easiest pollitical solution remains the inflation of the debt into oblivion. The current progression of events favors this outcome, though newly passed and pending legislation seems oriented towards a process of default and receivership for the benefit of bankers gaining control of the real assets put up for collateral against loans. Yours:"In 1969, in the midst of Lyndon Johnsons war on Vietnam and war on poverty,(both on credit) he made the statement that we had unleashed economic forces that no one understood. He was right. He and the bankers released the doomsday machine of compound interest, and it is now devouring the economic structure which they devised. Who stands to get bitten the hardest by the influx of new money. How about the bankers who are now stuck with long term loans which will be returned with noticeably cheaper money, and a public, reluctant to initiate new loans. This leaves credit cards and bank charges as the primary income. Couple this with a plunging stock market, much of it financed by banks and security companies, and the seeds of disaster sown over the last 40 years are now ready for harvest." If a hyper-inflation is starting, the "crack-up-boom" will start with all maxing out on their credit cards and taking on loans to the full extent of their credit carrying capacity. Some late 70s experiences come to mind as motivators: one could buy a car and resell it after a year's use at the same, or higher price. Contrary to your thinking about the banks, they have never had any problem during inflationary periods when interest rates were not limited by statute. The main losers are those who have deposits at the bank.Yours:"ORO I know what is in the works, and I am as aware as you are of the fact that there is no way out. My only differencewith you is the discounting of the wealth now present in this world, it is not going to vanish, just because the markers representing it become worthless. The past accomplishments of the system are not going to vanish, and may well serve as the basis for a new system."I say again, the purpose of straying from gold is not, and has never been, for creating anything, just allocating what is there from those who make it to those who can take it. The control of the new wealth of the world will simply change hands. - from us who borrowed for it - to those who lent bogus money to us. The accomplishments of the system might as well vanish if we can't keep them for ourselves.Furthermore, some of these accomplishments are not truly such. The greatest successes of America are in the origination of technology (medical and otherwise) and mostly in marketing and distribution. The latter are largely useless when the volume of imports is gone and only exoirts remain. It is a great achievement that some have reached in exporting under these conditions of currency price distortion that artificially raises the cost of exports. It is a wonderful advantage that our system provides in allowing quicker and greater creation and initiation of businesses and technologies. Part of this, however, comes from the fact that much of the need to produce daily goods has been alleviated through imports, thus freeing up the time of technical professionals to create new technologies and businesses instead of running, maintaining and improving current processes and goods. Since TheStranger (TheStranger (5/25/2000; 21:57:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 31306) ) shares your concept here, this should serve as a partial critique of his view.Yours:"The United States is not the only nation in trouble with red ink, Europe is in no better shape, especially France. No one wants to rock the boat because they are well aware of the precarious positions of their respective governments."Europe has the advantage of having little external government debt. Our government debt is held by foreigners to a great extent. The advantage will become clear as the foreign owned US government debt is dumped back into the US markets.I don't understand the following, so please elaborate in as much detail as you are willing to provide:"The United States Constitution must be destroyed! Gold and silver remain the money of account within this document. There was nothing designated as money when gold and siver was removed under the color of law, this is the sword hanging over the heads those who will try to prosecute the paper claim to the vast wealth of the nation. The only way that may be changed is by amendment. This is the reason for the attacks on the 2nd Amendment, if it can be discredited, then we are without lawful government." Black Blade (5/26/2000; 2:18:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 31327) Cheap Prices Precipitate Surge In Silver Demand (From miningweb) http://196.36.119.130/MGGold.nsf/Current/422567D9004530DF802568E9005260AA?OpenDocument An interesting and upbeat read before todays carnage ;-)Low prices are precipitating a surge in silver demand. So much so that the deficit between fabrication demand and supply (including mine output and recycled silver) was as much as156 million ounces last year, according to "World Silver Survey 2000". Despite the bullish fundamentals, silver sagged 2 cents to $4.96 an ounce Wednesday, a level which encourages considerable consumption, maintains Robin Bhar of Standard Bank London. Silver has performed poorly because China and other central banks unwound their monetary silver reserves, while investors still holding poor performing large stockpiles of silver, sold. Silver's twelve range of $4.88 to $5.79, contrasts with the $50 all time peak in 1980 when Texan tycoon, Bunker Hunt attempted to corner the market. In short, silver is seriously cheap. The survey, which is researched by Gold Fields Mineral Services on behalf of the The Silver Institute, a producer association, finds that global silver fabrication demand rebounded by 5 percent or 41 million ounces to 877 million ounces last year. In contrast production fell for the first time in five years because of uneconomic quotes. The revival in East Asia and India, where demand rose by 11 percent and 5 percent respectively, following a weak performance in 1998, generated much of the overall increase. Fabrication demand in North America was up an impressive 8 percent to 232 million ounces, compared with 214 million in 1998. Industrial applications of silver, which accounted for over 39 percent of all fabrication demand, surged ahead in 1999 on the back of very healthy offtake in the US and Japan. Silver usage in electrical and electronic products provided much of the rise in overall fabrication demand and absorbed 148 million ounces, benefiting from the robust economic environment, as well as the development of new products and end uses. Worldwide demand for industrial applications jumped 26 million ounces to 343 million. Photographic demand for silver, long a mainstay, continued to edge higher as well. Demand for jewellery and silverware rose 5 percent last year to 261 million ounces. This growth occurred even though India, the largest Market for such items, was virtually flat at 71 million. Total supplies rose 6 percent to 888 million ounces. But mine production slipped marginally, while supply from recycled scrap dropped by 10%. Total official sales soared by 117 percent to 87 million ounces, and out of this total China offloaded 61 million ounces. Had China not sold, the fabrication supply deficit would have forced prices higher, GFMS believes. By: Neil Behrmann Leland (5/26/2000; 1:49:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 31326) From Flambeur, my Most Respected Poster at Gold-Eagle "Kaplan's recipe for a gold bear (Flambeur) May 26, 01:47 KAPLAN'S CORNER: QUESTION (from Mr. Scott Griff): What if anything would get you to be bearish on gold? ANSWER: If all of the following occurred simultaneously, I would become very bearish on gold: 1) Louis Rukeyser proclaiming that gold was the best of all possible investments; 2) William O'Neill of Merrill Lynch and Peter Ward of Lehman Brothers agreeing with him; 3)very high call buying and almost no put buying on gold and gold mining shares; 4) a cover story extolling the virtues of owning gold in Time magazine (remember Jeff Bezos and Amazon.com in December 1999); 5) the XAU staying flat as gold rallied strongly on consecutive trading days; 6) the CRB index of commodities topping out at a multi-year high after a major rally; 7) the U.S. dollar bottoming after a collapse; 8) traders' commitments showing commercials heavily net short COMEX gold futures, and speculators almost unanimously on the long side." ------- totalamateur (5/26/2000; 1:32:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 31325) Last part of "The Dying Dollar!" part2:THEY WORSHIPPED THE DOLLAR AND THEY WORSHIPPED AMERICA. They worshipped American power, arms, technique, culture, music, styles, movies, politicians and the American standard of living. The U.S. was the world's ideal, Heaven, the Promised Land, Dreamland!THE WORLD SET THEIR EYES ON THE THINGS OF THIS EARTH WHICH AMERICA REPRESENTED. They based their economies on the American Dollar and put their faith in the American system & military power.NOW AMERICA IS FAILING THEM ALL THE WAY AROUND! Its military power is no longer able to defend its worshippers, so Russia's taking over the world! U.S. politics are corrupt, its Dollar crumbling and its economy on a crash course to destruction!RIGHT NOW GOD'S BEEN MERCIFUL AND IT'S GONE DOWNHILL SLOWLY, but gaining momentum as it goes. But when it hits bottom it's going to crash!SO THE DAY IS COMING WHEN EVEN YOUR DOLLARS AREN'T GOING TO BE WORTH MUCH!--In fact it's already here!: --They're only worth 4% of 50 years ago! But from this dream it sounds like Swiss Francs are still going to be worth something for awhile!SOON AMERICA WILL WAKE UP TO THE FACT THAT ITS DOLLARS AREN'T WORTH ANYTHING ANYMORE! Even U.S. shops will demand Francs! That dream was so clear!THE MORAL IS that in order to stay operational in the near future, your money better be in Francs or gold or something better than Dollars!THIS DREAM IS ANOTHER WARNING that if you haven't paid any attention to our previous warnings to get out of Dollars and go to something else, even in the U.S., you'd better do it now!--Amen?--God help us!--And He will!Copyright (c) 1998 by The FamilyThe above was written by Father David August 3, 1978 totalamateur (5/26/2000; 1:28:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 31324) (No Subject) "THE DYING DOLLAR!"THE DREAM I HAD LAST NIGHT WAS JUST ABOUT AS VIVID AS THE ONE I HAD IN LONDON, "THE MONEY EXPLODES!", when we walked in and they wanted 3 Pounds for a can of soup, and then they wouldn't sell us a roundtrip railroad ticket because prices were going up so fast! I WAS DRIVING THIS CAR AND LITTLE TRAILER SOMEWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. It was sort of hilly and backwoods like Southern or Midwestern U.S., and really kind of a typical little small conservative town.THE LICENSE ON MY CAR AND TRAILER HAD EXPIRED, and I was trying to drive as quick as I could to the license bureau.WHEN I GOT TO THE LICENSE BUREAU IT WAS JUST ONE WINDOW IN THIS LOCAL STORE where they did a little business on the side selling licenses, but it was closed!THE SIGN SAID IT WAS ONLY OPEN FROM FIVE TO SIX EVERYDAY, one hour a day! The storekeeper was a typical conservative small-town American. I said,"WHAT DO YOU MEAN, YOU'RE ONLY OPEN ONE HOUR A DAY!" He said, "I don't even hardly have enough license business for that! Why should I stay open more?" "Well," I said,"I'M DESPERATE! I'VE GOTTA HAVE NEW LICENSES! This is an emergency! You're here, what if the window's shut, can't you please sell me some licenses?" He said."WELL, I CAN, BUT I'M SORRY WE DON'T ACCEPT DOLLARS ANYMORE. You'll have to pay me in Swiss Francs!"--And boy, was I relieved! I said, "Oh, I'll be glad to pay you in Swiss Francs!"--And that was the dream!SMALL-TOWN AMERICA SAID, "WE DON'T ACCEPT DOLLARS ANYMORE, YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY ME IN SWISS FRANCS!" He said it almost like he didn't expect me to have it, like he thought that was another stall he'd give me so that he wouldn't have to worry about selling me the licenses out of hours.--Even that's significant! It was after hours, the window was closed, past time! In other words, brother, it's getting late, later than you think!I WAS AN AVERAGE AMERICAN TRYING TO GET A LICENSE TO OPERATE, which is typical of the United States where you need a license to do almost everything but spit! It's typical of almost total complete governmental control, like n the dream about "The Emergency" where everything had to have permission. (No. 160A.)"BUT YOU'VE GOT TO PAY IN SWISS FRANCS!" In other words, the U.S. currency wasn't any good!THE DAY'S GOING TO COME WHEN IN THE U.S. ITSELF AMONGST U.S. CITIZENS, THE DOLLAR IS NO LONGER GOING TO BE WORTH ANYTHING! That is exactly what happened in Germany after losing both World Wars: Their local currency was no longer worth anything. It also happened in the U.S. South in 1865 and in China in 1895.IT'S ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS THAT DREAM I HAD ABOUT BRITAIN AND THE 3 POUNDS CAN OF SOUP: That showed the skyrocketing prices! But at least in Britain in that other dream, 3 pounds was still worth a can of soup!BUT HERE EVEN THE GOVERNMENT WOULDN'T ACCEPT ITS OWN MONEY, knowing it was worthless! You had to pay in something else!COUNTRIES HAVE GOTTEN TO THE CONDITION AFTER WARS WHERE THEIR MONEY WAS WORTH NOTHING, so they paid in goods, paid n eggs or chicken or farm products. They went back to bartering just like in the old days. They gave something for something, because nobody would accept nothing for something anymore--like paper dollars!IN OTHER WORDS THE U.S. IS GOING TO COME TO EXACTLY THE SAME CONDITION THAT GERMANY DID AFTER WWI:--Money's worth nothing, because the government has nothing to back it up with anymore!MOST AMERICANS DON'T UNDERSTAND A THING ABOUT ECONOMICS or trade or the monetary system. The only thing they understand is how much they're paying for their groceries and whether their favorite TV show is on or not!THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD EVER STIR UP THE AMERICANS TO REALLY HOWL is if their favorite TV show got pre-empted, or if the government should clamp down on their gasoline!THEY COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE DECLINE OF THE DOLLAR as long as it doesn't make much difference with what they're having to pay for their groceries.THEY DON'T DARE FACE IT! They would be terrified, it would cause an absolute panic!THEY DON'T EVEN CARE IF THEY'RE GETTING LESS, AT LEAST THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO PAY ANY MORE. Business surveys have discovered that the customers are willing to take less for their money as long as it's in the same package and it looks the same size, even if there's less in it and they know it!JUST THINK, GOLD WENT UP TO $215! They're always giving the same old excuses, "Well, gold always goes up when the people are a little worried. It'll settle down again, blah blah blah!"DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE SWISS FRANC WAS A YEAR AGO, July, 1977? 2.44 Swiss Francs per Dollar! Now it's down to 1.60! That's over a 34% drop, over one-third down in just one year! Thank God we switched to Francs two years ago!I'VE PRETTY FAITHFULLY WARNED THE WORLD IN MY LETTERS. I've talked about the collapse of the Dollar and the money and warned them. (See Letters 103, 243, 285, 294 and 310.)I WROTE THAT FIRST WARNING ON THE DOLLAR NEARLY TEN YEARS AGO! Do you know what the Dollar was worth then?--4.32 Swiss Francs! In other words it's dropped 63% in just the last ten years!--Nearly two-thirds!I WROTE ANOTHER WARNING IN LONDON IN 1974 in which I told you about my 50-year-old $20 gold piece that was then worth $200, ten times as much! That's 90% down in 50 years! Gasoline, bread, milk, normal ordinary daily items were each of them only 10¢ when I was ten years old! When we left the U.S. 40 years later we were paying almost exactly 5 times that amount for each of those items!IT MEANS THAT THE DOLLAR DECREASED IN VALUE 80% IN 40 YEARS! In other words, it lost 20% every ten years, then 63% in the last ten!--And now 34% in one year!THAT'S ACTUALLY A 96% DEPRECIATION IN FIFTY YEARS!--Worth only 4% of what it was in 1928! It's just absolutely phenomenal, and it is catastrophic! The United States is living on in a dream, not facing facts!IT'S LIKE THE GUY WHO HAS HAD SO MUCH MOMENTUM ON THE ROLLER COASTER: He comes racing down and then he goes whsst up and off through midair still under the momentum of his previous power.HE DOESN'T EVEN REALISE THAT THERE'S NOTHING LEFT UNDER HIM until after a while the momentum ceases and the bottom drops out and he crashes to the ground! That's what's going to happen, and the fast drop's started now!I DON'T THINK THE WORLD IS GOING TO GAIN THAT MUCH CONFIDENCE IN THE DOLLAR AGAIN. (ed's comment: it definitely looks like the author was wrong here, but then again; greed knows no limits. And I would not call it real confidence anyway, people are just going along foor the ride hoping to make a quick and easy buck, before they flee the sinking ship) They've lost faith and they're fed up!--The U.S. does nothing!WHAT AMAZES ME IS THAT THE BIG MONEY INTERESTS HAVE BEEN SO DUMB! Look at the bind the Arabs are caught in right now:NEARLY FIVE YEARS AGO I TOLD THE ARABS, "DON'T TAKE ANOTHER DOLLAR FOR YOUR OIL! Refuse to accept anything but gold from now on." They'd be billions richer now if they'd taken my advice, and the West would be broke! (ed's note: From what I have gathered by now; they did, at least to some extent, go for gold and the west especially the US is worse than broke.)BUT THEY'VE GOT TOO MUCH MONEY INVESTED IN THE U.S., and they've got too much of their own money in Dollars! So they are literally supporting the Dollar just to save themselves, when they're actually losing money!--And the Western countries are the same.OF COURSE, NOW THEY'RE CONSIDERING A CHANGE and this is one thing that's contributing to the Dollar's fall, that Dollars might not buy oil anymore! If that happens, even if they go to the European basket, it would virtually bring about the financial bankruptcy and collapse of the U.S. and a lot of Dollared Arabs.THE EEC'S TRYING TO CREATE A EUROPEAN BASKET OF CURRENCIES and Helmut Schmidt of Germany is taking the lead, and France is completely concurring.ALL THE COUNTRIES PUT IN THE POT TOGETHER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RESERVES to back their currency to make it more stable, because the Dollar is not stable. They're going to have it only one-third Dollars, one-third European currencies and one-third gold. (Ed's note: A pretty good guess back in 1978!)THIS OF COURSE WOULD CREATE TREMENDOUS WORLD CONFIDENCE IN EUROPEAN CURRENCY because it's backed by something that's worth something. Whereas the U.S. Dollar is getting worth less all the time and is not backed by anything that's worth a thing! No-thing! Think of it!--Just paper!THE U.S. ECONOMY REALLY ISN'T CRASHING, IT'S ALREADY CRASHED! The only thing is that people just don't know it and won't believe it and are going ahead in blind faith in the Dollar!--Their crumbling god!ONE OF THE FOREMOST SIGNS OF THE DEMISE OF ALL THE FAMOUS WORLD EMPIRES WAS WHEN THEY BEGAN TO ADULTERATE THEIR METAL COINAGE: They began to reduce the actual valuable metal in the coins to much below what it said on the coin. In other words, the governments were literally cheating the people. It was almost always a sign that they were on the way down, and out! I am going to tell you something now that's going to be hard for you to believe!:IN 1965 AND 1970 THEY ELIMINATED ALL OF THE SILVER FROM "SILVER" COINAGE IN THE U.S.! There's no more silver in the "Silver" coins at all! Guess what the actual metal value of a 25-cent piece is now?--One cent!GUESS HOW MUCH ACTUAL METAL VALUE THERE IS IN A "SILVER" DOLLAR?--FOUR CENTS! I presume the only reason they even make silver dollars anymore is for the sake of Las Vegas who uses them in their gambling machines!THEY HAVE CHEATED THE PEOPLE BY GIVING THEM COINS THAT ARE WORTH ONLY A BARE FRACTION OF WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WORTH! They've not only cheated the people on the paper money, which is really worth absolutely nothing, but also on the hard currency, the minted metal money!THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS LITERALLY CHEATING ITS PEOPLE! Well, they might be able to fool their own people and get their own people to keep on trusting the Dollar, but who else?THEY DIDN'T SAVE THEIR GOLD. They didn't hedge with anything that was really worth anything, like commodities etc.THEY PUT ALL THEIR FAITH IN THAT PAPER DOLLAR, AND IT IS 96% GONE! Over a 50-year period it has dropped to only 40% of its 1928 value!THIS PAST YEAR ALONE THE DOLLAR HAS LOST 34%--THAT I WOULD CALL A CRASH!--Just like the British stock market crash in 1974. They never did call it a crash, but in one year they lost over 300 points out of 400! That's what I'd call a crash!--AND IN 1974 THE BRITISH POUND LOST A DOLLAR IN VALUE! It went down from 2.65 to 1.69, almost a 36% loss in only one year!IT CRASHED RIGHT AFTER THEY SET IT AFLOAT. They had had an official set exchange rate with the Dollar. But the Dollar was beginning to get weak, so they decided the best thing to do was to break loose from the Dollar. Well, they lost for awhile, but look where they are now, whereas the Dollar is still going down!THE DOLLAR'S GOING DOWN AND THE BRITISH POUND IS GOING UP! So in the long run they actually played it safe by cutting themselves loose from the Dollar. In doing that they almost as good as did what we told them to do in "America the Whore."--They broke loose and put their money on the open market.THE AVERAGE AMERICAN IS DUMB ABOUT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICS. They don't understand it. They don't understand a decrease in the value of the Dollar, except all they can see is higher prices. It doesn't even seem to sink through that their Dollar's worth less--and soon worthless!THEY'RE NOT EVEN BLAMING IT ON THE DOLLAR! They're blaming it on those guys that charge the higher prices and a "disorderly market"!--Ha! It's not the market, it's those disorderly Americans!THIS IS VIRTUALLY A COLLAPSE OF THE DOLLAR, over one-third down in one year! Now the Americans themselves will not really begin to feel that except as their foreign trade begins to affect their purchase prices.THEY'RE GOING TO START GRIPING ABOUT THE PRICES OF CHEAP JAPANESE PRODUCTS GOING UP now, and German tape recorders and cameras going up, and Swiss precision instruments, clocks and watches which were underpriced too long. Now they're going up to what they're really worth!THE DAMNED DOLLAR WAS WAY OVER-VALUED AND WAS ROBBING THE REST OF THE WORLD, has been now for years! At last the Dollar is getting its due, thank God! It's getting what it deserves. It's being devaluated to what it's really worth, nearly nothing!THE U.S. WAS BUYING ALL THESE PRODUCTS FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD DIRT CHEAP and living in luxury and high style on the low wages and low standards of living of the poor of the world. Now the rest of the world is rebelling against working at such low wages and getting those low prices for their goods.THEY ARE RAISING THE PRICES OF THEIR GOODS AND RAISING THEIR WAGES and raising their standard of living to what it's worth. So now the Japanese and the Germans and the Swiss are beginning to get paid what their stuff is really worth in Dollars.THE DOLLAR IS LITERALLY DECLINING TO WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL ITS REAL VALUE. In fact it's still far above what it's really worth. If the showdown ever comes, which it's bound to sooner or later, it's worth no more than the paper it's printed on!--And that's not worth much!--Just fancy paper and fancy ink! They'll be framing it one of these days like they did the old German 50-billion-mark notes, worth only a few cents, and the old Chinese yen and Southern Confederacy bills!THE AMERICANS HAVE NEVER BEEN THROUGH A RUNAWAY INFLATION like the Europeans had in the '20s and '30s. They had a stock market crash, but that was a deflation. They've never suffered a runaway inflation like what's happening now. (Ed's comment: They staved it off, but it's picking up speed again….)BY LAW MOST OF THE COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD, PARTICULARLY THE U.S., HAVE GUARANTEED INFLATION. The depression scared them almost out of their pants and they determined to never allow the stock market to crash again, never allow prices to crash like that again, and the labor unions have determined never to allow wages to crash again.--So:THEY'VE GOT ALL KINDS OF LAWS TO GUARANTEE PRICE SUPPORT, STOCK SUPPORT, AND WAGE SUPPORT. And these very laws absolutely guarantee inflation, and no other way but for it to get worse!IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE because it's already about 10% a year which is terrible! It's been 4, 5 and 6% but now 10%DO YOU KNOW WHAT A 10% INFLATION RATE MEANS? It means approximately that from the beginning of the year to the end of the year your Dollar buys literally 10% less. So the Dollar would automatically lose 10% of its value every year, 10% just by inflation alone!I'M NO ECONOMIST, I'M JUST A SIMPLE GUY THAT LOOKS AT THE SIMPLE FACTS THE WAY THEY ARE, not at all these complicated explanations. And frankly what I think has happened, and a lot of economists think so too, is this:EVEN THOUGH THE DOLLAR HAS DEVALUATED AT LEAST 2% A YEAR over the first 40 years, it didn't devaluate as much as it should have. It kept on coasting on its own momentum for several years after it had really lost its value because of the skyrocketing inflation.BUT NOW THE REST OF THE WORLD FINALLY HAS AWAKENED! They hung on a long time hoping it would come back. But now they're beginning to see it's not going to come back, it's not going to make it. So therefore they're dumping their Dollars down to what they were really worth a long time ago.THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT TEN YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST WARNED THEM. It would have tapered off more gradually and they might have been able to absorb it easier. But they kept on going out in space like that, then all of a sudden they looked down underneath and there wasn't anything there!--So now--CRASH!SO IN OTHER WORDS IT'S JUST CATCHING UP WITH WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE GONE over the past ten years, down to where it really belongs. In fact, God only knows where it belongs! That Green Paper Pig (Ed's note: symbolizing the greenback; the dollar) was as flat as a pancake after it exploded, in fact it disappeared! (Ed's not: another article called "The Green Paper Pig!" I'll post it later, DV)EVEN IF THERE WASN'T ANOTHER WORLD WAR, THE WORLD IS HEADED FOR ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE, disaster, crash! When I was a kid there wasn't such close communication and transportation, and if some little thing happened in one part of the world it didn't affect the rest of the world. In fact most of them never even heard about it, and if they had, they wouldn't have cared less!BUT NOW EVERYTHING IS SO CLOSELY OVERLAPPED AND INTER-RELATED BY INSTANT COMMUNICATION AND FAST TRANSPORTATION that not one little thing can happen in any one little rinky-dink country without making it earth-shaking news! If any little tiny thing happens anywhere, it shakes the whole world and scares them all to death that either the U.S. or Russia or somebody's going to get into it and it's going to upset the whole applecart--which it's going to do one of these days!CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THE ARABS WOULD SUDDENLY DEMAND GOLD INSTEAD OF DOLLARS?--Or Swiss Francs or Deutsch Marks or something else?--Or even if they would just enter the basket and insist on at least one-third payment in gold, one-third in European currency, and only one third in Dollars?--WOW! CRASH! (My comment: It would be interesting if someone in the know could reveal what the oil-producers have done with their money; what exactly is their asset allocation, what percentage is in dollar-based paper assets, how much is in paper gold and how much in physical gold? - If they for some reason have bought paper gold; by somewhat naïve souls believed to be as good as gold, I can only guess what will happen when they want to take physical delivery and find that the settlement they are offered will be in soon worthless paper dollars. They will be very upset! They will demand physical gold for any future oil deliveries plus delivery of already contracted paper gold. Then the US if they already have sold their golden shirt, something which they very likely have, will not be able to deliver the gold, the flow of oil will cease, and the US in the face of all this will …… I'll leave something to your imagination!) CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT A SCRAMBLE THE U.S. WOULD HAVE TRYING TO RAKE UP ENOUGH GOLD and European currency for oil! Ah, the tables would really be turned! This is what America has been putting the rest of the world through for years! (Ed's comment: Did they really, as some speculate, empty Fort Knox and sell the gold?! And are they planning to steal it back?)THE REST OF THE WORLD HAVE BEEN BREAKING THEIR BACKS AND SCRAMBLING LIKE MAD and scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to earn enough Dollars to pay for American goods.NOW THE TABLES CAN BE TURNED!: Americans scrambling for gold and European currencies! It could bring about the downfall of the U.S., God's judgments on selfish America at last!EUROPE AND THE ARABS MAY NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING IN PAYMENT FOR THEIR OIL AND THEIR GOODS BUT THEIR OWN CURRENCY, OR GOLD! The U.S. is screaming about even the vaguest rumour or hint or talk about such a thing!: "It would mean our collapse!"YET THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE U.S. HAS BEEN DOING TO THE POOR OF THE WORLD FOR YEARS, bringing about the collapse of a lot of other governments--like Allende's. They put the financial squeeze on Allende and that is what drove him out of office. It wasn't just the final military coup--it was U.S. Dollars!IT WAS THE U.S. FINANCIAL SQUEEZE THAT SENT CHILE INTO BANKRUPTCY and skyrocketing inflation, 300% a year, and forced a military coup! The people were ready for anything that would save them from the Dollar emergency that the U.S. itself had created!THEN OF COURSE THE U.S. "SAVED" THEM BY BACKING A MILITARY COUP!--JUST LIKE THE WAY THE DEVIL "HEALS" SOME PEOPLE!: He afflicts them with his own diseases, and then he "heals" them through some fake religion so they'll give that phoney religion the glory and the credit!AFTER ALL, HIS DEMONS CAUSED THE DISEASE, SO HE CAN CALL THEM OFF, then they're "healed"! Just like the U.S.: They sick their CIA dogs on any little country that's getting too independent or going Socialist, then when it collapses, they volunteer to reach in and "save" it through Dollar diplomacy!THE U.S. HAS BROUGHT ABOUT THE DOWNFALL OF INNUMERABLE LATIN AMERICAN REGIMES! Then they step in and supposedly "save" the country through their choice of politicians and militarists, and in most cases it's those who were the most cases it's those who were the most anti-Socialist, anti-liberal, and often anti-human rights!THE U.S. ITSELF IS RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING INTO POWER NEARLY EVERY ONE OF THE GOVERNMENTS IN LATIN AMERICA THAT THE U.S. IS NOW CRITICISNG for their attitude on human rights! And now the U.S. is complaining because they use that power to persecute their own people! It's oppression "Made in U.S.A."!THE U.S. HAS JUST GONE CRAZY BECAUSE THEY'VE REJECTED THE TRUTH! So God has sent them strong delusion that they, might believe a lie that they might be damned! (2Thes.2:10-11.)SO THE U.S. IS IN THE WORST MESS OF ALL!--Nearing its end! It would hardly take the slightest thing to set it off, not even a war!I AM SURE IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE, and at the rate things are going right now it's not going to take long!EVERY CRASH IS LIKE A SNOWBALL ROLLING DOWNHILL!: It gets bigger and worse and faster the closer it gets to the bottom, gaining momentum as it descends!THE DOLLAR'S BEEN GRADUALLY DECLINING FOR YEARS and now it's really rolling downhill!EUROPE IS BEGINNING TO SAVE ITSELF A LITTLE TOO LATE, so will suffer pretty badly. They're reaping what they sowed.THEY WORSHIPPED THE DOLLAR AND THEY WORSHIPPED AMERICA. They worshipped American power, arms, technique, culture, music, styles, movies, politicians and the Ameri totalamateur (5/26/2000; 0:42:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 31323) "The Dying Dollar!" "THE DYING DOLLAR!"THE DREAM I HAD LAST NIGHT WAS JUST ABOUT AS VIVID AS THE ONE I HAD IN LONDON, "THE MONEY EXPLODES!", when we walked in and they wanted 3 Pounds for a can of soup, and then they wouldn't sell us a roundtrip railroad ticket because prices were going up so fast! I WAS DRIVING THIS CAR AND LITTLE TRAILER SOMEWHERE IN THE UNITED STATES. It was sort of hilly and backwoods like Southern or Midwestern U.S., and really kind of a typical little small conservative town.THE LICENSE ON MY CAR AND TRAILER HAD EXPIRED, and I was trying to drive as quick as I could to the license bureau.WHEN I GOT TO THE LICENSE BUREAU IT WAS JUST ONE WINDOW IN THIS LOCAL STORE where they did a little business on the side selling licenses, but it was closed!THE SIGN SAID IT WAS ONLY OPEN FROM FIVE TO SIX EVERYDAY, one hour a day! The storekeeper was a typical conservative small-town American. I said,"WHAT DO YOU MEAN, YOU'RE ONLY OPEN ONE HOUR A DAY!" He said, "I don't even hardly have enough license business for that! Why should I stay open more?" "Well," I said,"I'M DESPERATE! I'VE GOTTA HAVE NEW LICENSES! This is an emergency! You're here, what if the window's shut, can't you please sell me some licenses?" He said."WELL, I CAN, BUT I'M SORRY WE DON'T ACCEPT DOLLARS ANYMORE. You'll have to pay me in Swiss Francs!"--And boy, was I relieved! I said, "Oh, I'll be glad to pay you in Swiss Francs!"--And that was the dream!SMALL-TOWN AMERICA SAID, "WE DON'T ACCEPT DOLLARS ANYMORE, YOU'LL HAVE TO PAY ME IN SWISS FRANCS!" He said it almost like he didn't expect me to have it, like he thought that was another stall he'd give me so that he wouldn't have to worry about selling me the licenses out of hours.--Even that's significant! It was after hours, the window was closed, past time! In other words, brother, it's getting late, later than you think!I WAS AN AVERAGE AMERICAN TRYING TO GET A LICENSE TO OPERATE, which is typical of the United States where you need a license to do almost everything but spit! It's typical of almost total complete governmental control, like n the dream about "The Emergency" where everything had to have permission. (No. 160A.)"BUT YOU'VE GOT TO PAY IN SWISS FRANCS!" In other words, the U.S. currency wasn't any good!THE DAY'S GOING TO COME WHEN IN THE U.S. ITSELF AMONGST U.S. CITIZENS, THE DOLLAR IS NO LONGER GOING TO BE WORTH ANYTHING! That is exactly what happened in Germany after losing both World Wars: Their local currency was no longer worth anything. It also happened in the U.S. South in 1865 and in China in 1895.IT'S ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME THING AS THAT DREAM I HAD ABOUT BRITAIN AND THE 3 POUNDS CAN OF SOUP: That showed the skyrocketing prices! But at least in Britain in that other dream, 3 pounds was still worth a can of soup!BUT HERE EVEN THE GOVERNMENT WOULDN'T ACCEPT ITS OWN MONEY, knowing it was worthless! You had to pay in something else!COUNTRIES HAVE GOTTEN TO THE CONDITION AFTER WARS WHERE THEIR MONEY WAS WORTH NOTHING, so they paid in goods, paid n eggs or chicken or farm products. They went back to bartering just like in the old days. They gave something for something, because nobody would accept nothing for something anymore--like paper dollars!IN OTHER WORDS THE U.S. IS GOING TO COME TO EXACTLY THE SAME CONDITION THAT GERMANY DID AFTER WWI:--Money's worth nothing, because the government has nothing to back it up with anymore!MOST AMERICANS DON'T UNDERSTAND A THING ABOUT ECONOMICS or trade or the monetary system. The only thing they understand is how much they're paying for their groceries and whether their favorite TV show is on or not!THE ONLY THING THAT WOULD EVER STIR UP THE AMERICANS TO REALLY HOWL is if their favorite TV show got pre-empted, or if the government should clamp down on their gasoline!THEY COULDN'T CARE LESS ABOUT THE DECLINE OF THE DOLLAR as long as it doesn't make much difference with what they're having to pay for their groceries.THEY DON'T DARE FACE IT! They would be terrified, it would cause an absolute panic!THEY DON'T EVEN CARE IF THEY'RE GETTING LESS, AT LEAST THEY'RE NOT HAVING TO PAY ANY MORE. Business surveys have discovered that the customers are willing to take less for their money as long as it's in the same package and it looks the same size, even if there's less in it and they know it!JUST THINK, GOLD WENT UP TO $215! They're always giving the same old excuses, "Well, gold always goes up when the people are a little worried. It'll settle down again, blah blah blah!"DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE SWISS FRANC WAS A YEAR AGO, July, 1977? 2.44 Swiss Francs per Dollar! Now it's down to 1.60! That's over a 34% drop, over one-third down in just one year! Thank God we switched to Francs two years ago!I'VE PRETTY FAITHFULLY WARNED THE WORLD IN MY LETTERS. I've talked about the collapse of the Dollar and the money and warned them. (See Letters 103, 243, 285, 294 and 310.)I WROTE THAT FIRST WARNING ON THE DOLLAR NEARLY TEN YEARS AGO! Do you know what the Dollar was worth then?--4.32 Swiss Francs! In other words it's dropped 63% in just the last ten years!--Nearly two-thirds!I WROTE ANOTHER WARNING IN LONDON IN 1974 in which I told you about my 50-year-old $20 gold piece that was then worth $200, ten times as much! That's 90% down in 50 years! Gasoline, bread, milk, normal ordinary daily items were each of them only 10¢ when I was ten years old! When we left the U.S. 40 years later we were paying almost exactly 5 times that amount for each of those items!IT MEANS THAT THE DOLLAR DECREASED IN VALUE 80% IN 40 YEARS! In other words, it lost 20% every ten years, then 63% in the last ten!--And now 34% in one year!THAT'S ACTUALLY A 96% DEPRECIATION IN FIFTY YEARS!--Worth only 4% of what it was in 1928! It's just absolutely phenomenal, and it is catastrophic! The United States is living on in a dream, not facing facts!IT'S LIKE THE GUY WHO HAS HAD SO MUCH MOMENTUM ON THE ROLLER COASTER: He comes racing down and then he goes whsst up and off through midair still under the momentum of his previous power.HE DOESN'T EVEN REALISE THAT THERE'S NOTHING LEFT UNDER HIM until after a while the momentum ceases and the bottom drops out and he crashes to the ground! That's what's going to happen, and the fast drop's started now!I DON'T THINK THE WORLD IS GOING TO GAIN THAT MUCH CONFIDENCE IN THE DOLLAR AGAIN. (ed's comment: it definitely looks like the author was wrong here, but then greed knows no limits. And I would not call it real confidence anyway, people are just going along hoping to make a quick and easy buck) They've lost faith and they're fed up!--The U.S. does nothing!WHAT AMAZES ME IS THAT THE BIG MONEY INTERESTS HAVE BEEN SO DUMB! Look at the bind the Arabs are caught in right now:NEARLY FIVE YEARS AGO I TOLD THE ARABS, "DON'T TAKE ANOTHER DOLLAR FOR YOUR OIL! Refuse to accept anything but gold from now on." They'd be billions richer now if they'd taken my advice, and the West would be broke! (ed's note: From what I have gathered by now; they did go for gold and the west especially the US is worse than broke.)BUT THEY'VE GOT TOO MUCH MONEY INVESTED IN THE U.S., and they've got too much of their own money in Dollars! So they are literally supporting the Dollar just to save themselves, when they're actually losing money!--And the Western countries are the same.OF COURSE, NOW THEY'RE CONSIDERING A CHANGE and this is one thing that's contributing to the Dollar's fall, that Dollars might not buy oil anymore! If that happens, even if they go to the European basket, it would virtually bring about the financial bankruptcy and collapse of the U.S. and a lot of Dollared Arabs.THE EEC'S TRYING TO CREATE A EUROPEAN BASKET OF CURRENCIES and Helmut Schmidt of Germany is taking the lead, and France is completely concurring.ALL THE COUNTRIES PUT IN THE POT TOGETHER A CERTAIN AMOUNT OF RESERVES to back their currency to make it more stable, because the Dollar is not stable. They're going to have it only one-third Dollars, one-third European currencies and one-third gold. (Ed's note: A pretty good guess back in 1978!)THIS OF COURSE WOULD CREATE TREMENDOUS WORLD CONFIDENCE IN EUROPEAN CURRENCY because it's backed by something that's worth something. Whereas the U.S. Dollar is getting worth less all the time and is not backed by anything that's worth a thing! No-thing! Think of it!--Just paper!THE U.S. ECONOMY REALLY ISN'T CRASHING, IT'S ALREADY CRASHED! The only thing is that people just don't know it and won't believe it and are going ahead in blind faith in the Dollar!--Their crumbling god!ONE OF THE FOREMOST SIGNS OF THE DEMISE OF ALL THE FAMOUS WORLD EMPIRES WAS WHEN THEY BEGAN TO ADULTERATE THEIR METAL COINAGE: They began to reduce the actual valuable metal in the coins to much below what it said on the coin. In other words, the governments were literally cheating the people. It was almost always a sign that they were on the way down, and out! I am going to tell you something now that's going to be hard for you to believe!:IN 1965 AND 1970 THEY ELIMINATED ALL OF THE SILVER FROM "SILVER" COINAGE IN THE U.S.! There's no more silver in the "Silver" coins at all! Guess what the actual metal value of a 25-cent piece is now?--One cent!GUESS HOW MUCH ACTUAL METAL VALUE THERE IS IN A "SILVER" DOLLAR?--FOUR CENTS! I presume the only reason they even make silver dollars anymore is for the sake of Las Vegas who uses them in their gambling machines!THEY HAVE CHEATED THE PEOPLE BY GIVING THEM COINS THAT ARE WORTH ONLY A BARE FRACTION OF WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO BE WORTH! They've not only cheated the people on the paper money, which is really worth absolutely nothing, but also on the hard currency, the minted metal money!THE U.S. GOVERNMENT IS LITERALLY CHEATING ITS PEOPLE! Well, they might be able to fool their own people and get their own people to keep on trusting the Dollar, but who else?THEY DIDN'T SAVE THEIR GOLD. They didn't hedge with anything that was really worth anything, like commodities etc.THEY PUT ALL THEIR FAITH IN THAT PAPER DOLLAR, AND IT IS 96% GONE! Over a 50-year period it has dropped to only 40% of its 1928 value!THIS PAST YEAR ALONE THE DOLLAR HAS LOST 34%--THAT I WOULD CALL A CRASH!--Just like the British stock market crash in 1974. They never did call it a crash, but in one year they lost over 300 points out of 400! That's what I'd call a crash!--AND IN 1974 THE BRITISH POUND LOST A DOLLAR IN VALUE! It went down from 2.65 to 1.69, almost a 36% loss in only one year!IT CRASHED RIGHT AFTER THEY SET IT AFLOAT. They had had an official set exchange rate with the Dollar. But the Dollar was beginning to get weak, so they decided the best thing to do was to break loose from the Dollar. Well, they lost for awhile, but look where they are now, whereas the Dollar is still going down!THE DOLLAR'S GOING DOWN AND THE BRITISH POUND IS GOING UP! So in the long run they actually played it safe by cutting themselves loose from the Dollar. In doing that they almost as good as did what we told them to do in "America the Whore."--They broke loose and put their money on the open market.THE AVERAGE AMERICAN IS DUMB ABOUT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ECONOMICS. They don't understand it. They don't understand a decrease in the value of the Dollar, except all they can see is higher prices. It doesn't even seem to sink through that their Dollar's worth less--and soon worthless!THEY'RE NOT EVEN BLAMING IT ON THE DOLLAR! They're blaming it on those guys that charge the higher prices and a "disorderly market"!--Ha! It's not the market, it's those disorderly Americans!THIS IS VIRTUALLY A COLLAPSE OF THE DOLLAR, over one-third down in one year! Now the Americans themselves will not really begin to feel that except as their foreign trade begins to affect their purchase prices.THEY'RE GOING TO START GRIPING ABOUT THE PRICES OF CHEAP JAPANESE PRODUCTS GOING UP now, and German tape recorders and cameras going up, and Swiss precision instruments, clocks and watches which were underpriced too long. Now they're going up to what they're really worth!THE DAMNED DOLLAR WAS WAY OVER-VALUED AND WAS ROBBING THE REST OF THE WORLD, has been now for years! At last the Dollar is getting its due, thank God! It's getting what it deserves. It's being devaluated to what it's really worth, nearly nothing!THE U.S. WAS BUYING ALL THESE PRODUCTS FROM THE REST OF THE WORLD DIRT CHEAP and living in luxury and high style on the low wages and low standards of living of the poor of the world. Now the rest of the world is rebelling against working at such low wages and getting those low prices for their goods.THEY ARE RAISING THE PRICES OF THEIR GOODS AND RAISING THEIR WAGES and raising their standard of living to what it's worth. So now the Japanese and the Germans and the Swiss are beginning to get paid what their stuff is really worth in Dollars.THE DOLLAR IS LITERALLY DECLINING TO WHAT YOU MIGHT CALL ITS REAL VALUE. In fact it's still far above what it's really worth. If the showdown ever comes, which it's bound to sooner or later, it's worth no more than the paper it's printed on!--And that's not worth much!--Just fancy paper and fancy ink! They'll be framing it one of these days like they did the old German 50-billion-mark notes, worth only a few cents, and the old Chinese yen and Southern Confederacy bills!THE AMERICANS HAVE NEVER BEEN THROUGH A RUNAWAY INFLATION like the Europeans had in the '20s and '30s. They had a stock market crash, but that was a deflation. They've never suffered a runaway inflation like what's happening now. (Ed's comment: They staved it off, but it's picking up speed again….)BY LAW MOST OF THE COUNTRIES OF THE WORLD, PARTICULARLY THE U.S., HAVE GUARANTEED INFLATION. The depression scared them almost out of their pants and they determined to never allow the stock market to crash again, never allow prices to crash like that again, and the labor unions have determined never to allow wages to crash again.--So:THEY'VE GOT ALL KINDS OF LAWS TO GUARANTEE PRICE SUPPORT, STOCK SUPPORT, AND WAGE SUPPORT. And these very laws absolutely guarantee inflation, and no other way but for it to get worse!IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE because it's already about 10% a year which is terrible! It's been 4, 5 and 6% but now 10%DO YOU KNOW WHAT A 10% INFLATION RATE MEANS? It means approximately that from the beginning of the year to the end of the year your Dollar buys literally 10% less. So the Dollar would automatically lose 10% of its value every year, 10% just by inflation alone!I'M NO ECONOMIST, I'M JUST A SIMPLE GUY THAT LOOKS AT THE SIMPLE FACTS THE WAY THEY ARE, not at all these complicated explanations. And frankly what I think has happened, and a lot of economists think so too, is this:EVEN THOUGH THE DOLLAR HAS DEVALUATED AT LEAST 2% A YEAR over the first 40 years, it didn't devaluate as much as it should have. It kept on coasting on its own momentum for several years after it had really lost its value because of the skyrocketing inflation.BUT NOW THE REST OF THE WORLD FINALLY HAS AWAKENED! They hung on a long time hoping it would come back. But now they're beginning to see it's not going to come back, it's not going to make it. So therefore they're dumping their Dollars down to what they were really worth a long time ago.THEY SHOULD HAVE DONE IT TEN YEARS AGO WHEN I FIRST WARNED THEM. It would have tapered off more gradually and they might have been able to absorb it easier. But they kept on going out in space like that, then all of a sudden they looked down underneath and there wasn't anything there!--So now--CRASH!SO IN OTHER WORDS IT'S JUST CATCHING UP WITH WHERE IT SHOULD HAVE GONE over the past ten years, down to where it really belongs. In fact, God only knows where it belongs! That Green Paper Pig (Ed's note: symbolizing the greenback; the dollar) was as flat as a pancake after it exploded, in fact it disappeared! (Ed's not: another article called "The Green Paper Pig!" I'll post it later, DV)EVEN IF THERE WASN'T ANOTHER WORLD WAR, THE WORLD IS HEADED FOR ECONOMIC CATASTROPHE, disaster, crash! When I was a kid there wasn't such close communication and transportation, and if some little thing happened in one part of the world it didn't affect the rest of the world. In fact most of them never even heard about it, and if they had, they wouldn't have cared less!BUT NOW EVERYTHING IS SO CLOSELY OVERLAPPED AND INTER-RELATED BY INSTANT COMMUNICATION AND FAST TRANSPORTATION that not one little thing can happen in any one little rinky-dink country without making it earth-shaking news! If any little tiny thing happens anywhere, it shakes the whole world and scares them all to death that either the U.S. or Russia or somebody's going to get into it and it's going to upset the whole applecart--which it's going to do one of these days!CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF THE ARABS WOULD SUDDENLY DEMAND GOLD INSTEAD OF DOLLARS?--Or Swiss Francs or Deutsch Marks or something else?--Or even if they would just enter the basket and insist on at least one-third payment in gold, one-third in European currency, and only one third in Dollars?--WOW! CRASH! (My comment: It would be interesting if someone in the know could reveal what the oil-producers have done with their money; what exactly is their asset allocation, what percentage is in dollar-based paper assets, how much is in paper gold and how much in physical gold? - If they for some reason have bought paper gold, by somewhat naïve souls believed to be as good as gold, I can only guess what will happen when they want to take physical delivery and find that the settlement they are offered will be in soon worthless paper dollars. They will be very upset!) CAN YOU IMAGINE WHAT A SCRAMBLE THE U.S. WOULD HAVE TRYING TO RAKE UP ENOUGH GOLD and European currency for oil! Ah, the tables would really be turned! This is what America has been putting the rest of the world through for years! (Ed's comment: Did they really, as some speculate, scrape the floor and empty Fort Knox etc. and sell the gold?! And are they planning to steal it back?)THE REST OF THE WORLD HAVE BEEN BREAKING THEIR BACKS AND SCRAMBLING LIKE MAD and scraping the bottom of the barrel trying to earn enough Dollars to pay for American goods.NOW THE TABLES CAN BE TURNED!: Americans scrambling for gold and European currencies! It could bring about the downfall of the U.S., God's judgments on selfish America at last!EUROPE AND THE ARABS MAY NOT ACCEPT ANYTHING IN PAYMENT FOR THEIR OIL AND THEIR GOODS BUT THEIR OWN CURRENCY, OR GOLD! The U.S. is screaming about even the vaguest rumour or hint or talk about such a thing!: "It would mean our collapse!"YET THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT THE U.S. HAS BEEN DOING TO THE POOR OF THE WORLD FOR YEARS, bringing about the collapse of a lot of other governments--like Allende's. They put the financial squeeze on Allende and that is what drove him out of office. It wasn't just the final military coup--it was U.S. Dollars!IT WAS THE U.S. FINANCIAL SQUEEZE THAT SENT CHILE INTO BANKRUPTCY and skyrocketing inflation, 300% a year, and forced a military coup! The people were ready for anything that would save them from the Dollar emergency that the U.S. itself had created!THEN OF COURSE THE U.S. "SAVED" THEM BY BACKING A MILITARY COUP!--JUST LIKE THE WAY THE DEVIL "HEALS" SOME PEOPLE!: He afflicts them with his own diseases, and then he "heals" them through some fake religion so they'll give that phoney religion the glory and the credit!AFTER ALL, HIS DEMONS CAUSED THE DISEASE, SO HE CAN CALL THEM OFF, then they're "healed"! Just like the U.S.: They sick their CIA dogs on any little country that's getting too independent or going Socialist, then when it collapses, they volunteer to reach in and "save" it through Dollar diplomacy!THE U.S. HAS BROUGHT ABOUT THE DOWNFALL OF INNUMERABLE LATIN AMERICAN REGIMES! Then they step in and supposedly "save" the country through their choice of politicians and militarists, and in most cases it's those who were the most cases it's those who were the most anti-Socialist, anti-liberal, and often anti-human rights!THE U.S. ITSELF IS RESPONSIBLE FOR BRINGING INTO POWER NEARLY EVERY ONE OF THE GOVERNMENTS IN LATIN AMERICA THAT THE U.S. IS NOW CRITICISNG for their attitude on human rights! And now the U.S. is complaining because they use that power to persecute their own people! It's oppression "Made in U.S.A."!THE U.S. HAS JUST GONE CRAZY BECAUSE THEY'VE REJECTED THE TRUTH! So God has sent them strong delusion that they, might believe a lie that they might be damned! (2Thes.2:10-11.)SO THE U.S. IS IN THE WORST MESS OF ALL!--Nearing its end! It would hardly take the slightest thing to set it off, not even a war!I AM SURE IT'S GOING TO GET WORSE, and at the rate things are going right now it's not going to take long!EVERY CRASH IS LIKE A SNOWBALL ROLLING DOWNHILL!: It gets bigger and worse and faster the closer it gets to the bottom, gaining momentum as it descends!THE DOLLAR'S BEEN GRADUALLY DECLINING FOR YEARS and now it's really rolling downhill!EUROPE IS BEGINNING TO SAVE ITSELF A LITTLE TOO LATE, so will suffer pretty badly. They're reaping what they sowed.THEY WORSHIPPED THE DOLLAR AND THEY WORSHIPPED AMERICA. They worshipped American power, arms, technique, culture, music, styles, movies, politicians and the American standard of living. The U.S. was the world's ideal, Heaven, the Promised Land, Dreamland!THE WORLD SET THEIR EYES ON THE THINGS OF THIS EARTH WHICH AMERICA REPRESENTED. They based their economies on the American Dollar and put their faith in the American system & military power.NOW AMERICA IS FAILING THEM ALL THE WAY AROUND! Its military power is no longer able to defe Leland (5/26/2000; 0:31:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 31322) aunuggets "Like most here, I prefer to keep the majority of my holdings in AU, but silver coins are a nicefallback."May I add...just a wee item to your excellent posting...For only a few dollars, a US $1.00 bill of the silvercertificate variety can be purchased from almost any coin shop.The one that I have was saved in 1957. It has been awonderful tool for teaching my children the differencebetween redeamable and irredeamable currency. Whenchildren read what the U.S. Treasury said in 1957 andcompare to what is printed on today's paper currency,VIOLA! What a valuable piece of paper that old dollarbill has been. aunuggets (5/26/2000; 0:00:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 31321) Leland #31283 In your referenced Paul Hein text, certain thoughts came to mind that I just wanted to share briefly.Although it is obviously true that there is no particular backing or convertability for U.S. greenbacks to gold since 1933 or to silver since 1968, this applies only to "government" convertability.Yes, the dollar was "backed" (convertable) to silver in 1950, but is it not "convertable" today also in the free marketplace ? You still can "buy" or trade fiat for silver at the "going market price" on any given day (for now anyway - GRIN).And while $10,000 in 1950 "cash" may well be equivalent to some $75,000 - $80,000 in present day value, looking at the current depressed metals markets from this standpoint quickly uncovers one of the great advantages of these "down" markets.Where else could you possibly find $1,000 in 1950 "value" for a mere $3,600 (+-) in present day pure fiat ? Remember, here we are talking 260% "inflation" since 1950 rather than Mr. Hein's stated 650-700 percent.What I am talking about are $1,000 face value bags of "junk silver" coins. Something worth considering.Or what about 1965 to 1969 40% silver halves ? Talk about limited downside risk. Currently in the neighborhood of 75 cents apiece (bag quantities), your downside is what, 33 percent even if you had to spend them at face value ?Like most here, I prefer to keep the majority of my holdings in AU, but silver coins are a nice fallback.Just a couple of thoughts..... ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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