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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 8/25/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Old Yeller (08/25/01; 22:10:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 60264) Paul Kasriel; closet golden boy http://www.northerntrust.com/library/econ_research/weekly/us/010824.html Good write-up on the money printing antics of our friendly central bankers.Seems as if he wants to remain somewhat discreet in regards to his fondess for the yellow as a store of value,though.Gee,I wonder why that is? Sojourner (08/25/01; 21:01:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 60263) Federal Reserve and JFK I searched and searched for the following quote when it was being discussed. I just found it and still think that it is worth sharing.The wife of Lee Harvey Oswald told A.J. Weberman in 1994, "The answer to the Kennedy assassination is with the Federal Reserve Bank. Don't underestimate that. It's wrong to blame it on Angleton and the CIA per se only. This is only one finger of the same hand. The people who supply the money are above the CIA." Weberman is a writer but I do not know who he writes for or if he writes books.There is also an interesting note about Hinckley (of Reagan infamy) and George H.W. Bush. Want to hear it? Zenidea (08/25/01; 20:49:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 60262) re:Part 2. Quietly sitting in the corner listening. FOA. Like the bug and the valve man yarn :). OK lets say all this Euro/US/IMF derivitives senerio pans out and Gold up!,if thats where the world and its populace is headed?.I just have one simple daft closed question. Does that not leave the Au/Oil richly resourced (In the ground ) countries with an extraordinary advantage and the predator (mineraly barren) economies wailing more so?. At the end of the dayI am still looking for world equity. Just quite cant seem todiscern or grasp the difference between manipulation and honest business if the answers Yes. At the end of the dayit seems to me that the net result would be the same.(smiles) Max Rabbitz (08/25/01; 19:22:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 60261) HC Gold Series was "Brought to you by Investors Business Daily." We all know where their interests lie. I wonder if they can blame what's coming on gold. Greedy people hoarding Money? No that won't work. Greedy speculators shutting down the commodity markets?With regard to "How dumb is too dumb?" how about "too smart by half" with regard to those who brought this country the great credit bubble. The coming destruction of our monetary system was brought to us by those claiming to be the best and brightest. I doubt if 1 in a 100 really understand derivatives or have even considered the possibility of that 100 year flood. Really sharp guys. Some would call them Slick. Sierra Madre (08/25/01; 19:16:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 60260) Who issues the paper? That is the question... Today's discussion about Greenbacks vs. the Banking Establishment - together with some uncalled for acrimony - boils down to:Yes, I suppose if human beings were like angels, then paper would be as good as gold, and paper could be issued in such a way that it would not be necessary to mine gold or obtain it through trade. There has been lots written on this: how much sterile effort is expended to obtain the metal, whereas the population could just as well use paper etc. and save a lot of national effort. We've all heard it before.Trouble is, we're NOT anything like angelic.So, if paper is going to be issued as money, the question boils down to: that implies a heck of a lot of power, and WHO is going to exercise that power?John Q. Public could not care less if it is the Fed's Notes or the Treasury's Greenback.To the people that run these operations, it means a great deal: who cuts the cheese, i.e., who runs the country.I remember reading those books on "Social Credit"- Social Credit used to be rather big in Canada, years ago. It all came down, again, to the same thing: WHO issues the credit chits?Better we settle for gold - and even that can be manipulated, as we are seeing. But eventually, gold survives the manipulations and the scams, and there it sits.Sierra Netking (08/25/01; 19:05:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 60259) Silver Coinage: Basis for the formation of a Latin American Common Market in Century 21 http://www.plata.com.mx/plata/silver.htm A few snippits from Hugo Salinas Price's excellent article:- As in medicine, half of a successful treatment lies in a correct diagnosis. The cause of our ills lies predominantly in the fact that without Dollar reserves there is no monetary system and no financial system.- Only a currency with intrinsic value can provide us with a monetary and financial system which will not require Dollar reserves. The history of thousands of years, allows us to state that only gold and silver, can provide us with currency of intrinsic value.- It is incovenient for the moment, to talk of gold, since the policy of the United States is resolutely against the remonetization of gold. On the other hand, silver is not so politicized and besides, our people have a historic memory of hundreds of years of the use of silver as money. Most of our people cannot envision themselves as owners of gold coins; however, they can easily imagine themselves as users of silver currency. For this reason, I propose the silverization of our economies, in lieu of the increasing dolarization.- Evidently, massive currency and financial turmoil worlwide is on the horizon, for the International Monetary Fund has just recently proposed a 40% increase in capital, surely aware that world economic collapse is a real menace.(One of the several proposals include:)- Win the consent of the various mints of Latin America, to coin pure silver currency with weights of one ounce, ½ ounce, ¼ ounce, 1/10 ounce and 1/20 ounce. These coins already exist in Mexico and can be reproduced in the other countries of Latin America, with the sme characteristics but with their own national symbols. The mints will consent to coin, at cost, all silver which is presented to them for coinage.- The people of Latin America will begin to save in silver, and will restore to this noble metal a use which it has had since time immemorial.- The monetization of silver, means the privatization of money. Central banks cease to be the suppliers of discredited paper money, and the miners of Latin America assume the extremely important role of purveyors of currency.- The common currency of Latin America becomes automatically the world´s best currency, and wins worldwide acceptance. - The remonetization of silver means that its price rises, and benefits the miners.- The people of Latin America are already willing to save silver without the benefit of earning interest. (All silver coinage disappears immediately) How much more willing to save silver will they be, if they are given the opportunity of depositing their silver in savings accounts denominated in silver, in the banks which are most responsible and enjoy the best reputations? Internal savings surge and foreign capital ceases to enjoy a privileged position, and becomes only ancillary to popular, national savings.- The spectre of devaluation disappears, and with it a curse of the Twentieth Century for Latin America. Silver currency has its own intrinsic value, and once monetized, silver will no longer be subject to the vagaries of foreign industry. If foreign industry wishes to have silver, it will have to pay for it a price sufficient to persuade the holders of silver to hand it over. In other words, there will be an important internal market in Latin America, and not only an external market, as at present.- All the various silver coins, wherever they have been minted, will circulate freely and without distinctions as to origin, all over Latin America. Peruvian and Bolivian coins will circulate in Mexico, and Mexican coins will be found in Patagonia and Chile. - On the basis of a common currency, we shall have created immediately a true common market. Black Blade (08/25/01; 18:49:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 60258) High Prices Will Continue for Natural Gas http://199.97.97.163/IMDS%PMANAT0%read%/home/content/users/imds/feeds/kiplinger/2001/08/25/eng-kiplinger/eng-kiplinger_092458_7580988607264622603 Snippit:IT WILL TAKE MANY MONTHS AND MILES OF NEW PIPELINES BEFORE NATURAL GAS CONSUMERS BEGIN GETTING RELIEF FROM THIS YEAR'S RECORD-HIGH PRICES. Demand for natural gas in the U.S. will continue to outpace supply for at least another year, keeping prices at near-record levels. Longer term, look for several large pipeline projects in the works around the country to eventually deliver natural gas faster to more locations. The current problems of low supply and high prices were seeded in the1990s, when drilling fell off dramatically as rock-bottom oil prices depressed demand for natural gas and created a gas deficit that producers are only now starting to mitigate. Currently, those problems are exacerbated by low levels of gas in storage, leaving no reliable cushion against sharp regional price spikes. Jay Yannello, senior natural gas analyst at UBS Warburg, says that storage levels in many areas are under 2800 billion cubic feet (bcf) per day, below the generally accepted comfort level of 3000 bcf. The weather over the next several months won't help matters either. The federal Climate Prediction Center says that this winter will be moderately colder than the past three winters, and it expects next summer to be slightly hotter than normal. That combination will deplete gas supplies and delay the rebuilding of inventories, especially in the Northeast. Customers will pay about $4 to $5.50 per 1000 cubic feet (mcf) through the winter. Prices will come down and might bottom out in a year or two at $2.50 to $3 per mcf, according to Yannello, but they won't drop to the $2 level of a couple of years ago.The trend toward gas-fired power plants will further increase natural gas consumption and put a strain on efforts to raise inventory levels. Most new facilities in the works will run on natural gas to avoid environmental hazards posed by coal and other fossil fuels. Cambridge Energy Research Associates forecasts a 140% surge in demand from gas-fired generators by 2010 in the Northeast alone.Black Blade: Quite a different assessment than that of the AGA on NG supply. Whatever the case, come winter the draw on supply will be greater as now we see many new NG-fired power plants along with the traditional users. If this winter is colder than normal it could get "interesting." It will also compound the problems of the energy crisis during this Recession. Black Blade (08/25/01; 18:29:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 60257) Fuel armadas scurry to rescue supply-starved US Midwest http://news.excite.com/printstory/news/r/010824/14/energy-midwest-shipping Snippit:NEW YORK (Reuters) - An armada of fuel tankers and barges are making their way to the U.S. Midwest from as far away as the North Sea to rescue the fuel-starved region from another supply crunch. The ships, surging in a wave up the Mississippi, and headed toward the gaping mouth of the St. Lawrence River, are expected to begin feeding the heartland with much-needed gasoline and diesel by as early as next week. The fresh influx of fuel will be welcome relief for the region, which has been left to handle rock-bottom supplies and sky-high prices following a prolonged shutdown of a key Citgo refinery in Lemont, Illinois, and a number of smaller refinery woes. "Barge traffic up the Mississippi has increased ten-fold," said Ron Hull of Sea Hull Inc., a shipping brokerage in Texas. "Barges are fully booked till October. The Midwest has really tightened up since Citgo."Wholesale gasoline prices in Chicago have jumped nearly 30 cents to $1.15 a gallon since Citgo's refinery went down Aug. 14, according to dealers. That is matched by a 15 cent spike at the Chicago pumps last week to $1.71 a gallon -- 27 cents higher than the national average of $1.44 a gallon. "It's absolutely crazy here, if you want the truth," said one gasoline trader. Meanwhile, wholesale diesel prices have jumped nearly 23 cents in Chicago to roughly $1.04 a gallon amid worries that there will not be adequate supply to bring in the autumn crops.Black Blade: How vulnerable this country (USA) is when one rather insignificant refinery is shutdown and panic ensues. One would think that there was a huge natural disaster where the entire world pulls together to help out the Midwestern "Grasshoppers." Yet there are no plans to build new larger refining facilities. Netking (08/25/01; 18:09:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 60256) M/East (cont.) http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=67503&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0 I've been following the site of Dave Dolans Sir Marketalk gave us. Excellent for watching developing events in the M.E. There could be a potentially huge retribution from the IDF for two attacks in the last 24 hours, this could be "the straw that breaks the camels back": * Two Palestinian gunmen infiltrated an elite IDF army base in the Gaza Strip and opened fire, killing three (including a major) & wounding seven. . . . Then a short while ago three Israelis were shot and killed and two children wounded when Palestinian gunmen opened Saturday night fire on a car travelling between Jerusalem and Modiin Israeli military radio reported.Despite the peace rhetoric and posturing, there appears to be two trains coming towards each other on the same track at an alarming speed . . . Meanwhile just before tha latest two events China slams Israel, renews support for Arafat's 'just cause'http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/ShArt.jhtml?itemNo=67483&contrassID=1&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0&listSrc=Y Horatio (08/25/01; 17:47:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 60255) Lincoln & Kennedy Lincoln had the Treasury issue its own Greenbacks and was shot.Kennedy had just completed plans for Treasury to issue its own Greenbacks and was shot. When Treasury issues its own ,theres no interest obligation to anyone. Follow the Money (Interest) BR549 (08/25/01; 16:33:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 60254) A "cursed thirst'' for gold Black Blade (msg#: 60249)BB: Another great link. I try and read all of yours as the Link Laureate of the GoldBugs.Wouldn't it be wonderful if the HC inspired a ``cursed thirst'' for gold in students while viewing GOLD that encouraged them to become a new generation of ``it's so pretty that we really couldn't help ourselves'' collectors, instead of buying into most of their parents mutual fund ideas.I think it may be too late for the main media CNBC equity and bond parents, but not the kids. David Linkley (08/25/01; 15:59:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 60253) BBC Warns of Looming Hedge Fund Disaster http://news.bbc.co.uk/low/english/business/newsid_1507000/1507480.stm "Remember the shock to the world's financial system when the LTCM hedge fund faltered? The BBC's Rodney Smith reports on rumours that another nasty shock could be just around the corner. A large hedge fund may be in trouble. That is the story circulating a few days ago in New York, London, Hong Kong and South Africa. . . John H Mesrobian at Constantinople Advisers, believe[s] investors should be bailing out of the US market, where the bubble would be likely to burst first, and should be selling the dollar and buying the euro, and gold."Linkley Note: Many remember the LTCM $1.5 tillion bailout as a near miss that could have brought down Wall Street and the world banking system. Now some think, as this BBC article points out, that this time the Fed "could be overwhelmed by the sheer scale of a new crisis." Netking (08/25/01; 15:44:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 60252) Military tensions heightened over Caspian Sea oil http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?f=/stories/20010825/666857.html Fighter jets deployed: Five states disagree on how to divide rich reservesSnippit:Tempers are flaring like oil wells in the Caspian basin, a region plagued by border disputes, escalating ethnic tensions, corrupt governments, growing militarization -- and some of the world's most promising oil discoveries.The level of hostility reached an alarming new high recently as Iran and Azerbaijan squared off in a series of military confrontations that have seen Iranian gunboats threaten to expel two oil survey ships working under an Azeri contract from part of the Caspian Sea claimed by both countries.Since then, the steady escalation of diplomatic rhetoric and military countermeasures has triggered alarm bells across the region.This week, the growing crisis climaxed in the temporary deployment of 10 Turkish F-16 fighter planes to Azerbaijan in a not-too-subtle warning to Iran.At the heart of the dispute is an unresolved conflict over how to divide the Caspian Sea and its resources.Iran and the old Soviet Union had a series of diplomatic agreements signed in 1921 and 1940 that gave Tehran a 13% share of the Caspian seabed. But after the 1991 collapse of the Soviet Union, the newly independent states of Kazakhstan, Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan demanded their share . . .------------------------------------------------------------Jon Doe: All in all it's just another brick in tha wall . . . John Doe (08/25/01; 15:20:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 60251) (No Subject) I have never heard of Steve Miller, the author. I've heard of Steve Miller the pop musician, though I'm more of a Pink Floyd fan myself."Haven't you heard? It's a battle of words, and most of them are lies."Pink Floyd, Us and Them, Dark Side of the Moon, 1973. nickel62 (08/25/01; 15:12:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 60250) BR549 What is with the "are you Steve Miller?" Are you Dolly Parton? Who cares? Black Blade (08/25/01; 14:57:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 60249) Gold Mart Averts Eyes From TV History http://biz.yahoo.com/rb/010825/business_minerals_gold_documentary_dc.html Snippit:NEW YORK (Reuters) - Perhaps the problems that gold is having in financial markets these days is all about bad karma...some new millennium payback for the havoc which greed for the yellow metal wrought through human history. One could get that impression watching the four-hour television documentary ``GOLD'', premiering on the History Channel this week and drawing interest but plenty of yawns and cynicism from traders trying to milk a lucrative living from a languishing gold futures and bullion business.From the murder of the Incas to the Holocaust, the film views mankind's path to modern times through the prism of, quoting the Roman poet Virgil, a ``cursed thirst'' for gold.Black Blade: Apparently the whole point of owning Gold was lost on many who watched the History Channel presentation "GOLD." BR549 (08/25/01; 14:50:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 60248) John Doe---are you Steve Miller? http://www.miller.dircon.co.uk/money.html Doe-"<Lincoln's Greenback> differed from the modern FRS in that <the money issued was neither a debt obligation, nor did it require interest payments>. <The government injected this money into the system for its purchases through legal tender laws>, and <then accepted it back again in payment of taxes>. It's sort of like the gold standard in <that the Greenback system was no one's liability and it didn't pay interest>, but used simple paper in lieu of gold. <Of course, such a system held the potential for inflationary/deflationary abuse, but for those with the intent and means not to abuse it , and held to growth rates commensurate with GDP, it would have functioned perfectly adequately to the needs of commerce.> Miller-"At times in the past, <money has been issued not by private banks but directly by government, and issued without bearing interest, that is to say, not as debt.> An example is <US President Abraham Lincoln's Greenback dollars>, <which financed government expenditure without creating national debt (which is the government's debt to the private banks)>. <Such issues of money are not inflationary so long as there is spare productive capacity in the economy able to produce goods which can be bought.> <Governments can always withdraw such issues of money using taxation>."Doe-<Lincoln's Greenback> Miller-<US President Abraham Lincoln's Greenback>Doe-<the money issued was neither a debt obligation, nor did it require interest payments> <the Greenback system was no one's liability and it didn't pay interest>Miller-<which financed government expenditure without creating national debt (which is the government's debt to the private banks)> <money has been issued not by private banks but directly by government, and issued without bearing interest, that is to say, not as debt.> Doe-<The government injected this money into the system for its purchases through legal tender laws> <then accepted it back again in payment of taxes>. Miller-< money has been issued not by private banks but directly by government > <Governments can always withdraw such issues of money using taxation>."Doe-<Of course, such a system held the potential for inflationary/deflationary abuse, but for those with the intent and means not to abuse it , and held to growth rates commensurate with GDP, it would have functioned perfectly adequately to the needs of commerce.> Miller-<Such issues of money are not inflationary so long as there is spare productive capacity in the economy able to produce goods which can be bought.>John Doe: Many ideas and phrases of yours match Steve Miller's very closely. Coincidence? Or are you Steve Miller?Regards from Cornfield County Netking (08/25/01; 14:23:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 60247) Bush Tries Out Business Skills on Government http://dailynews.yahoo.com/h/nm/20010825/ts/bush_dc_1.html Snippit:George W. Bush, the first U.S. president with a Harvard business degree, offered solutions on Saturday to fix more than a dozen "long-neglected management problems" in the federal government.By his own account no micro-manager, Bush has asked each of his Cabinet secretaries to name a chief operating officer to be held accountable for the performance of their agency. The designees will form the President's Management Council."Americans demand top-quality service from the private sector, "Bush said in his weekly radio address broadcast from his ranch near Crawford, where the president is winding up a month-long working vacation. "They should get the same top-quality service from their government. . ." John Doe (08/25/01; 13:16:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 60246) nickel62 My favorite was the fellow who likened central bank gold to "a stack of tires". I didn't catch his name, but his credentials were "a writer"! nickel62 (08/25/01; 13:13:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 60245) Thank You John Doe I didn't know of the differrence in the greenbacks versus the current fiat system and can see where it may have played a part in either or both. I have personally met two of the speakers on the Gold Special of the History Channel and I wouldn't trust either of them as far as I could throw them. There was also a strange choice in who was chosen to speak. Not most of the people you would have suspected. Peter Berstein made most of his reputation with derivatives and Milling Stanley was nothing more than a non profit flack a few years back. Now he is claiming to be a historian. Maybe the World Gold Council has deepened his insights? John Doe (08/25/01; 13:02:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 60244) nickel62 Lincoln implemented the Greenback system because the banking cartel of the time was willing to lend to the US government only at usurious interest rates exceeding 20-40%. Lincoln's Greenback differed from the modern FRS in that the money issued was neither a debt obligation, nor did it require interest payments. The government injected this money into the system for its purchases through legal tender laws, and then accepted it back again in payment of taxes. It's sort of like the gold standard in that the Greenback system was no one's liability and it didn't pay interest, but used simple paper in lieu of gold. Of course, such a system held the potential for inflationary/deflationary abuse, but for those with the intent and means not to abuse it , and held to growth rates commensurate with GDP, it would have functioned perfectly adequately to the needs of commerce. Since Lincoln's time, such a system has again been proposed as one possible means to rid the US of the FRS. And, as one might imagine, the lobby against this by interested parties between the people and their appointed government is overpowering.As I am of the opinion that among the prime drivers of human history is the money function, it seems plausible to me that an attempt to subvert the established money function in the US either caused or contributed to Lincoln's untimely end. This is but one possible explanation, but an explanation that makes sense in the context of prior money history, especially in the US.If you aren't already aware of it, you may also find an alternate theory behind JFK's assassination of interest as well. Through Executive Order 11.110, some five months before his death, JFK began reissuing non-debt, non-interest silver certificates, backed by the government's immense silver reserves, in an attempt to quell future government borrowing, which was inexorably growing out of control. Upon his death, all of these were recalled from circulation, and, interestingly, the circulating coinage silver was quickly debased as well within a year or so. Under LBJ, Federal debt exploded, whereupon most of the $5.8 trillion in stated Federal debt (the obligations of the government are actually much higher) has since been accrued.Of course, this could all have been coincidence -- twice. ;o) escapethematrix (08/25/01; 13:02:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 60243) What new revelations does GATA have on "Goldgate"?? Snippets From 8-24 MIDAS at Cafe Lemet.:Today, was a mega day for GATA behind the scenes:*Bill, Just got off the phone with the Mint's Public Relations Department. When I asked about the West Point re-classification they said that a lot of people were asking about it. According to the guy I talked to, it was done for some "archane accounting reason" but didn't specify what that was (he didnt know). He said that there had just been a meeting at Treasury about it. Furthermore, he mentioned that the Mint police were doing an investigation. The excuse for changing it from gold bullion reserve to deep storage was that some people didn't understand what gold bullion reserve meant and that deep storage would be more explanatory. He couldn't explain why only half the West Point gold was re-classified. Best Regards, Andrew -ENDThen, we had these goodies:*A GATA supporter and Café member discovered the Play Book of The Gold Cartel.*More irrefutable evidence surfaced from "the horse's mouth" that the Treasury was trading in "gold swaps" after 1978.*One of the most well known newspapers in the world has just assigned a reporter to investigate what GATA is saying.The highlites presented above will be revealed at the appropriate time. We are in a war with The Gold Cartel. They have been eating our lunch in the most vile and crooked manner for more than half the last decade. The tide is turning. The war is finally going our way. We have them petrified right now of what is coming next.We will choose the time and place to deliver our next blow. As one of GATA's high command said this afternoon, "we can take out a light cruiser with this information if we release it today, or we can wait and take out two aircraft carriers with it if we release it a most propitious moment - it is that powerful."So, we wait.I'd expect to hear the news before October 9,in any event. nickel62 (08/25/01; 12:34:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 60242) BR549 For what it is worth I don't consider my self a conspiracy nut and don't appreciate being referred to as one. nickel62 (08/25/01; 12:33:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 60241) Econoclast. Thank you for the explanation. I didn't know that the greenbacks had cut the banks out of the deal. That makes the history aspect of Lincoln more interesting. Cavan Man (08/25/01; 12:30:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 60240) Knallgold That's take a "note".... Cavan Man (08/25/01; 12:29:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 60239) Knallgold Markers Take a not...1. Wm. D. retires2. Mr. G retires3. France publicly declares for gold.4. A Euroland gold coin will be mintedSteveH had kept a short list many months ago also. Perhaps he will see this and repost. Old Yeller (08/25/01; 12:13:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 60238) Could there be a dollar carry trade developing? http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&refer=topfin&T=markets_bfgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=ad_position1_topfin&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=AO4ci.BY.Si5QLiBN Wouldn't that be a pleasant turn of events?Many dollar negatives cited here,builds a compelling case for piling on positions,especially as the cost of establishing a position keeps getting lowered,courtesy of Mr.G. BR549 (08/25/01; 10:11:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 60237) A few rebuttals, then I'm done— http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln74.html John Doe (msg#: 60228)-Thanks for your advice to me on etiquette and how to post. I'll "treasure" it always. Paper money invention-I am sure that the Chinese have invented everything. The HC lesson has to do with banskters issuing gold backed notes as a claim against their gold reserves and turning a portion of that paper into fiat currency. I think the U.S. invented "U.S. Congressional Fiat". (Maybe it was the Chinese). The Chinese are still inventing today. They have invented a way to convince the U.S. that their one sided trade is good for our gluttonous debt ridden consumers. Federal Reserve System (your FRS) and Federal Reserve Notes (my FRN's), I do know the difference and the Greenback System are based on the same concept--> FIAT.Lincoln's Assassination-For you and Nickel162 and any other conspiracy types, I've got the answer based upon the above link:SECRETARY OF WAR EDWIN STANTON WAS THE MASTERMIND BEHIND LINCOLN'S ASSASSINATION WHICH WAS THE RESULT OF A CONFEDERATE PLOT who in conspiracy with THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH backed by the money CONSPIRACY OF POWERFUL INTERNATIONAL BANKERS got ANDREW JOHNSON to hire John Wilkes Booth.(OR) The entire plot consisted simply of John Wilkes Booth as the leader of a small band of co-conspirators. No other people were involved."Other groups and individuals that have at times been implicated in Lincoln's assassination include domestic bankers, financiers and businessmen, Copperheads, certain Radical Republicans (either on their own or in concert with Edwin Stanton), the B'nai B'rith, and the Knights of the Golden Circle. Major Henry R. Rathbone, John F. Parker, and Mary Todd Lincoln have not totally escaped suspicion. Speculation that Booth's motivation was to avenge the hanging of Confederate John Yates Beall"But really it is the conspiracy detailed in The London Times that is the real conspiracy. Feel free to rewrite history any way you want.BR549-[I notice that all of your critical comments were gleaned from the last half of the last episode. A coincidence?]Doe-"What are you implying, that I've reviewed this without watching it? Tch, tch, such etiquette, and on this fine forum, no less."My, my. How thin skinned. What I meant here is NOT that you did not watch all of the episodes but that you did NOT focus your criticisms of the GOLD series on any aspect but PAPER money which was the last half of the last episode. (Which in the History of GOLD is a very short relative time period). Am I wrong??Regards from Cornfield County Knallgold (08/25/01; 09:29:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 60236) Change in policy of the euro side FOA:"... while the Euro / BIS faction has shifted to doing the same to destroy the paper gold market faster..." I thought it must collapse on its own.I guess it must happen before or with the euro introduction. PH in LA (08/25/01; 09:04:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 60235) "How dumb is too dumb?" Thanks, Darkhorse,for your reply (msg#: 60224)!This was indeed the kind of answer I hoped for when I posted the quotation... I also, had my doubts about the quatrain. Of course, the rabid, hopelessly self-concious and insecure ideological right couldn't restrain themselves and jumped in trying to turn the discussion to Gore and Clinton which only served to emphasize the aptness of the bogus quotation. Thoughtful observers, though, have no doubts whatsoever about the inept specimen that serves (however temporarily) as the purported leader of our country, although to the properly indoctrinated, he seems honest and smart enough.Thus, the bumper-sticker that serves as headline to this post... Econoclast (08/25/01; 08:35:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 60234) nickel162... The Greenbacks issued during the War Between the States were unbacked fiat, same as today. They were, however, Bills of Credit issued directly by the Treasury. Lincoln saw that the bankers created money out of nothing, so he decided that the Treasury could do that directly, thereby negating the interest and seignorage costs that the government pays bankers to create money from nothing.They are another example of inflation through uncontrollable government spending. Could you imagine if Congress could just create the money from nothing in todays world? Congress at the time, authorized $150 million but by the end of the war, $452 million was in circulation.From an abstract of Lincoln's Monetary Policy:"Government, possessing power to create and issue currency and credit as money and enjoying the right to withdraw currency and credit from circulation by taxation and otherwise, need not and should not borrow capital at interest...the privilege of creating and isssuing money is not only the supreme perogative of the government but it is the government's greatest creative opportunity."Now that'll P.O. some greedy bankers! BR549 (08/25/01; 08:17:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 60233) Conspiracy Theories & Lincoln's Assassination FWIW http://home.att.net/~rjnorton/Lincoln74.html "This theory is that Abraham Lincoln was killed as a result of his monetary policies. John Wilkes Booth would be seen as a 'hired gun.' In its simplest terms, the theory is that Lincoln needed money to finance the Civil War. He was offered loans at high interest rates by bankers in Europe led by the Rothschilds. Rather than accept the loans, Lincoln found other means to fund the war effort. More importantly, the British bankers opposed Lincoln's protectionist policies. Some Englishmen in the 1860's believed that "British free trade, industrial monopoly and human slavery travel together." Lincoln's policies after the Civil War would have destroyed the Rothschilds' commodity speculations. After the war, Lincoln planned a mild Reconstruction policy which would have enabled a resumption of agriculture production. The Rothschilds were betting the other way on high prices caused by a tough Reconstruction policy toward the South. Lincoln was viewed as a threat to the established order of things, and he was assassinated as a result. The goal was to weaken the United States so the Rothschilds could takeover its economy. An article titled "The Rothschilds' International Plot to Kill Lincoln" was published October 29, 1976, in New Solidarity." As with JFK and others, there are dozens of these CONSPIRACIES throughout History. Pick the one's you like. BR549 (08/25/01; 07:51:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 60232) HC GOLD!!! Gold RushGold feverCaliforniaSouth AfricaJames Marshall48’ersLeadvilleChamber of MinesGold warsIndiansPizarroCoronadoPhilip IIMesmerizedColumbusBrazil speaks PortugueseSouth America Speaks SpanishCatholic church and goldConquistadorsAntahualpaBlack Hills goldBoer WarIncan EmpireGold as universal currency2,500 years of gold as currencyTrade & barterNumismatistFirst gold coins minted by?Roman Empire's use of goldCongressional fiatHistory of gold coinsOrigin of MoneyHigh tech Treasure HuntsKing TutMother lodeArk of the CovenantCopper Scroll significanceKing Solomon's minesEl DoradoSuperstition MountainCurse of King TutMuch, Much, Much moreVilifyLiesFluffSpin jobGlass half empty nickel62 (08/25/01; 04:16:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 60231) John Doe, Could you please elaborate about the green back policy of Lincoln.. I was not aware of the particulars of the green back issue of Lincoln. You mentioned it in your prior post:"Please read the London Times at the time of the Greenback issuance and note their description of the calamity a sovereign-issue, non-interest-bearing, non-bank circulating medium of exchange would be to the emergent world banking system. What's the fun in that?" Was there a fundamental difference between the green backs issued during the Cival War and the current system. And if so please explain for us less well informed listeners. Thanks. nickel62 (08/25/01; 04:10:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 60230) John Doe I agree with your assessment exactly... It was a spin job. I try and caution myself against seeing a conspiracy motive behind everything, but watching the entire four hours left me with exactly the same sentiment as you expressed. It is scary to think that much of what are children are taught in public or private school is equally as slanted. Good work with your summary. Black Blade (08/25/01; 01:51:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 60229) U.S. oil prices rise on refinery troubles http://finance.individual.com/display_news.asp?doc_id=RTH24a4867reuff&page=news Snippit:NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. oil prices chalked up a second day of gains on Friday, as a slew of refinery problems pushed gasoline prices to their highest level in two months. Prices charged higher as traders took stock of a series of recent upsets at U.S. refineries which have already sent pump prices hurtling up in the Midwest region. Prices have rallied hard since Citgo said it expects a fire-damaged 160,000 barrel per day crude unit at its Lemont, Illinois, refinery to be out of service for six months following a shutdown Aug. 14. The Lemont plant's outage has sparked fuel supply concerns in the Midwest, a region already suffering from low inventories of gasoline and agricultural diesel ahead of the autumn harvest.Black Blade: Maintenance season is about to begin ahead of the switch over to reformulated blends of boutique fuels. Higher fuel prices are about to hit the Midwest as fuel standards from other regions vary and refinery capacity is severely limited. There are 97 reformulated fuels that are refined to local standards, so help from other regions are not of any help to the Midwest region. BTW, a million bbl/day OPEC oil production cut is about to begin as well. John Doe (08/25/01; 01:09:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 60228) BR549 [Did not the US invent paper currency?]No, I believe China did issued unbacked paper money, much, much earlier.[Is the current FRN interest bearing?]I said FRS - Federal Reserve System. We all know the FRN pays no interest directly (even though it's a "note", neat trick huh?). One way or another, all the money is created at interest via the banking/government cartel (except gold, silver, and platinum eagles, but then the .gov borrows or takes taxes to buy these metals too, so in a way, even these are created at interest).[As to Lincoln's assassination—absurd. No history lesson here.]Right and Booth was just another gun-toting nut. Please read the London Times at the time of the Greenback issuance and note their description of the calamity a sovereign-issue, non-interest-bearing, non-bank circulating medium of exchange would be to the emergent world banking system. What's the fun in that?[Maybe this is tongue and cheek?]A close paraphrase of their own words (not the houses/energy quip, that's mine).[It was all fluff and then lies?]No, mostly fluff, an interesting fact or two, then misrepresentation, then more fluff, then a lie, then less fluff, then more lies, then mostly lies. Though, in a back-handed way, they did say gold is money right at the end - IN THE THIRD WORLD.[I notice that all of your critical comments were gleaned from the last half of the last episode. A coincidence?]What are you implying, that I've reviewed this without watching it? Tch, tch, such etiquette, and on this fine forum, no less.[One last comment-If the History Channel had presented your ideas in place of tonight's commentary, then I would have even more disgusted with HC's last episode. ]Great, I've gotten through to you. :o)NB, as one should not criticize in advance, neither should one shower praise in advance, either -- risky business, that. Good night, good sir BR549. Netking (08/25/01; 00:16:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 60227) PH in LA / Dark Horse George is OK, I like this one of Nostradamus's better on Au & Ag. Nostradamus - Quatrain C8Q28 The copies of gold and silver inflated, which after the theft were thrown into the lake, at the discovery that all is exhausted and dissipated by the debt. All scrips and bonds will be wiped out. --------------------------------------------------------Sounds like the paper shorts get burnt huh! - Netking ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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