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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 2/24/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Journeyman (2/24/2001; 23:01:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 48898) Signal intelligence war? Assuming the reports of Middle East military actions are somewhat accurate, sounds like "signal intelligence" maneuvering.The presence of China suggests they may be working with Iraq to unravel the US "smart technology," and the fact that both actions by US/British planes were less than successful sugests China and Iraq may be making some headway. Especially the wierdness that all the "smart bombs" in one area veered as much as 100 yards to the left.Of course, this is flimsey speculation on my part.Regards,Journeyman SHIFTY (2/24/2001; 22:25:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 48897) SteveH / Topaz Baggers Thank you$hifty SteveH (2/24/2001; 21:17:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 48896) Shifty five bagger is a 500% return on an investment.10 bagger is a 1000% return.Hope that is what your question meant? RAP (2/24/2001; 21:10:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 48895) On the precipice of Armageddon http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=21833 Here's the story on the ME "almost" war, neutron bombs and all. Seems the bombs missed because of a "software glitch". WW Oracle (2/24/2001; 20:22:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 48894) ORO, Black Blade, re: Skilled tech workers "shortage" Do not the most elementary economics texts maintain that, in the long run, there is no such thing as a shortage, that "shortages" are just a product of a defective market mechanism? "Hard" engineers and technologists in the U.S. are not paid very well at the junior level, especially in comparison to the "soft" internet, electronic, and communication fields. Truly talented youngsters are discouraged from innovation because they see their superiors take a large bite of the fruits of their labors. Overhead, regulatory compliance, and legal costs are high, creating high barriers to entry.Furthermore, companies and even individual employees who are well-off financially can be sued for total redress if someone is injured using their product, even if the company or individual is only 1% responsible. Liability costs killed the general aviation industry in the United States in the 1980's. If a pilot crashed a plane, even one that was fifty years old, the small-cap manufacturer could be successfully sued for millions of dollars for some sort of "deficiency."Also, the state of science/engineering academia in the U.S. varies a great deal, and is probably getting worse. I know of one department where, deep in the graduate student guide, it states that the student is responsible for professors showing up for all exams. No professor at your oral exam, no degree -- and no appeal. In effect, the student is held responsible for their professors' academic conduct! Not many students make it through the program anymore. I often wonder about those that do. This department's affiliated industry-oriented research laboratory has achieved financial success, if nothing else, by thus spending next to nothing on its students -- consequently driving out of business competing labs that do.Such a winnowing process reduces the number of outsiders who can independently assess whether or not the laboratory is doing a competent job. The standards for doing a "good enough" task drop lower and lower. There is a lot of very sloppy work out there.In sum, a combination of economic disincentives and irresponsible educators could mean that the United States may never regain the technological prowess, industrial strength, and economic might of the twentieth century, even if relative pricing returns to a pro-export orientation. Randy (@ The Tower) (2/24/2001; 19:12:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 48893) Professor von Braun offers his thoughts on WGC's plans "to end the bear market" http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/RocketSchool/vonBraun.html Click the link, our server will "chat" with your computer, and it will be like moving at "perfect speed" through the eyes of a seagull. Randy (@ The Tower) (2/24/2001; 18:42:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 48892) When you're insecure about what the new week holds in store for your accumulated dollars... http://www.usagold.com/onlinestore/special.html Use the link above to let Centennial lock in a fistful of gold coins through this special online ordering page...open all day, every day. Swiss and Danish gold available right here, right now.(For all orders of bullion or the usual cast of pre-33's, please contact the Centennial office during Denver business hours on Monday through Friday) Canuck (02/24/01; 18:04:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 48891) Here's a 'smilie' for the POG :) Happy face 'smilie':( Sad 'smilie']:) Devil-face 'smilie':D Big grin 'smilie':O Shocked 'smilie':p 'Smilie' with tongue:| Indifferent 'smilie'Thanks Chris. The world of gold is so much happier with this new-found wisdom. USAGOLD now has 'smilies'.]:) Canuck. Canuck (2/24/2001; 17:58:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 48890) (No Subject) My son asks, "Why don't you have 'smilies'?""We don't want 'smilies'""Do you have signatures?""No""You have to have signatures""We don't want signatures""Do you have a moderator?""No""We have 47 moderators""A Nintendo forum probably needs 47 moderators!""So who boots people off the forum""The guy that owns the web site""This forum is boring.""I'll let him know that you don't want a passcode." ax (2/24/2001; 17:57:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 48889) INCREASE U.S. GOLD RESERVES Increase U.S.Treasury Gold Reserves To restart the economy on an upward growth cycle again, the money supply must be increased, interests rates lowered, and tax cuts legislated. In order that this does not result in significant weakening of the U.S.Dollar a portion of the budget surplus should be used to increase U.S.Treasury Gold Reserves. Boosting U.S. gold reserves would give internal stability to a the U.S.currency which then can be safely increased in supply with lower interest and tax rates leading to a resurgence of industrial production and a restoration of a more favorable trade balance by increased exports. It would be in the best interest of the United States.AX CoBra(too) (2/24/2001; 17:53:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 48888) Arafat had a surprise meeting with Austria's Chancellor on Thursday ... ... Just as Wolfgang Schuessel was getting ready to attend the Opera Ball - battling with his white tie, since he lost the art of binding these old fashioned adornments during the EU siege of Austria, as he (W.S) abandonded the symbol, which instead was adorned to the lapels of nouvaeau conservative green leftists in league with ex-terrorists of the brand of the Joschka Fischer's, head oft the German State Dept. - Anyway, PLO's chief, Arafat made the trip in order to ensure support from the EU ... as the eternal Camp David negotiations came to nought and reminded the world of the fact that Ariel Sharon has in the past kept to his promises more than Barak ever had! Looking for more allies? In a Middle East, where turbulence is the name of the game. Unfortunately, Arab (Muslim) and Arab Oil(?) interests collide with the Israel/Palestina problem - Check Mate! OK, Vienna had its 45th. Opera Ball, grand as ever, demonstrants aggressive as ever and Arafat didn't attend - in the end - W.S. succeeded in tying his white tie and his tails were trailing the floor, wiping some dust off the palastenian trust. And it all reminds me of old Golda Meir, visiting with Nixon at the height of Vietnam, as Nixon asked if he could borrow some of the 6 day war veterans as the likes of General Moshe Dayan. No Problem, Golda responded and I'll have 3 of your great general's as collateral. That's all, Nixon thought - you can have'm all. And Golda picked General Motors, General Electric and General Tel. & El. ... Spare me what to pick today ... Gold Eagles all the way - see u cb2 Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (2/24/2001; 17:53:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 48887) Randy, ...and ALL,.....Please accept my apology I always make it a point to go back and add a strategic asterisk for purposes of sanitation. However I was seeing red in a real bad way and hit the post button too soon. At times I find it difficult to follow my own advice about blood pressure and the effect of our rulers upon it. I will post more carefully in the future. Canuck (2/24/2001; 17:47:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 48886) (No Subject) My 13 year old son and I are checking today's postings.He asks, "Why don't you guys talk about gold, all there is is war stuff, currencies, finance."I said, "Because that's what gold is."He asks, "Why aren't there 'smilies'?"I said, "We don't care about 'smilies', this isn't the 'Nintendo boards', we care about the planet."He's a good kid. megatron (2/24/2001; 17:32:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 48885) Stocks lies and ........ I'm coming to view my gold portfolio as a form of juicy lip -smacking revenge and pure enjoyment. I SOOO badly want to see the liberal scumbags and politico's of this world get it right in the yap. I do not feel sorry for ANYONE in Canada or America. Everyone is going to get exactly what they deserve. When the mutual fund collapse reaches a crescendo I'll be laughing my mother@!#$@#$2in ass off at all of them. Good ridance to them. Randy (@ The Tower) (2/24/2001; 17:16:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 48884) Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (#48881), and Farfel, too, I see... http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/tools/guideandsignup.html May I suggest the above link for your benefit so as to better ensure the continuing readability of the forum for sensibilities more delicate than our own. Thank you! SteveH (2/24/2001; 17:01:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 48883) Good synopsis of corporate losses http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_01/edelson022401.html When you get done reading this, you want to say, "ouch!" Randy (@ The Tower) (2/24/2001; 17:00:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 48882) So easily said time and again, but will you listen in time? "We shall have the hyperinflation." http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010223/n233233.html When you come to recognize the nature of the transitionary phase we are currently living through in international settlements and banking, you will then see the need to acquire gold near at hand for its "real wealth advantage" over and beyond any advantage to be found holding only its current "price" (as a derivative or as the exchangable dollars).-----NEW YORK, Feb 23 (Reuters) - Merrill Lynch & Co. expects the Federal Reserve will ask the U.S. Congress for permission to buy long-term municipal bonds for use in open market operations this year or next, according to a research report released on Friday.------Further and again, as we reported here earlier, Chairman Greenspan said in recent testimony that the Federal Open Market Committee had "asked the staff to explore the possible mechanisms for backing our usual repurchase operations with the collateral of certain debt obligations of U.S. states and foreign governments."The article continues:----the Fed has been discussing the idea with Merrill Lynch officials on and off for the last year. The Merrill team does not see Congress stepping in the way of the Fed, given that Fed purchases of state debts would lead to lower interest rates on state borrowings.------In this you may see one step closer to euro-model alignment. And though you see only a trend here, it leads to the ULTIMATE question in the "backing of a borrowed currency" -- Whose honesty to service debt would you hold in higher regard through thick and thin, that bond made by a man as he borrows for a home or a business, or that bond made by a government of national size that may any time make and change it own rules?As a person, you can do nothing to stop this global evolutionary transition to a structure better than the present (and why would you want to?), but you CAN endeavor to understand it and thereby properly prepare for and benefit through it -- holding a simple physical position of old world wealth to great advantage.As I have done, and many great thinkers before me have done in paving the way for years, we have no hesitation selling "the paper price" in order to buy "the metal wealth". Seeking gold is how I long ago discovered Michael at Centennial. You can, too.got gold? Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (2/24/2001; 16:52:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 48881) megatron,....on things Bill..... Save your blood pressure! You know that nothing will come of this latest Bill scandal. He won't go to jail. He won't have to testify to anything, and if he does, just count the times the words recollect and remember are used in the negative. He won't have to pay any money. He won't even have to apologize. You know it. We all know it. We know it because we know that Dubya won't pursue one of the ruling political elite. That is just bad form. The political elite and those who buy their influence have a free ride. The only grief Bill will get is from democrats who wish to eliminate him from any future power in the democratic party. Only those democrats and republicans who are new to DC or whose FBI files are particularly boring will be able to launch anything at Bill (or Hill). Don't forget that Bill's most powerful friends were those chicken shit republican senators like Lott and Stevens(?) who told the House managers that they would never vote to remove Bill from office. Remember the "....don't you dump this on us Henry" as witnessed by David Schippers in his blackballed book on the impeachment debacle? No. You know no help is coming from Dubya. What was it this week, $5 billion proposed by Dubya for the Dept. of Education? The same people who keep our children as stupid as multi billions of $$$$ and loss of local control will buy! The same people who proffer the economic lies by outright fallacies and shear neglect in the "teaching" of history and economics? Where is the common knowledge among US citizens of the undeniable "golden" truth that is so obvious to the vast majority of posters to this forum? It does not exist because the government does not want it to exist. republican and democrat! Our government! To all who voted for Dubya (or even Gore), well you got your wish. One word sums it up, "SNAFU". (For the uninformed it stands for: Situation Normal All Fucked Up.) (megatron, if you did not vote for Gush or Bore, then please disregard my venting. We are two of the very few.) Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (2/24/2001; 16:18:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 48880) Topaz,......."100 bagger" You are speaking my language!!!!!! Randy (@ The Tower) (2/24/2001; 16:08:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 48879) Our long-time favorite example....Turkey http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010224/l2456559.html Could this happen to you? When the card house falls down, you do not want to be asking, as does a columnist in this article, "Where are your economy ministers? Where are your central bankers and treasury officials?" It is so much more expedient to take personal responsibility for safeguarding your wealth with tangible holdings of gold! Why expect others to do for you that which you should be doing for yourself? This article concludes:---------Turks stunned by the overnight collapse of their assets now wonder what the future holds for inflation that seemed to be creeping toward manageable levels, after topping 100 percent in the mid-1990s.A leading Turkish industrialist, Sakip Sabanci, was quoted on Friday as saying the crisis had wiped out more than a third of his wealth, leading columnist Ismet Berkan in the Radikal daily to wonder what lay ahead for the man in the street. "Look, if Sakip Sabanci says he's lost 40 percent of his fortune, what have we plain old citizens lost this week?" he asked.Turkish officials have said the demise of the peg does not mean the death of economic reforms and have pledged to outline a new economic strategy with IMF officials in Ankara this week. "The expectations are clear: a serious revision in the government, a serious revision of the economic management, and a decision to seriously restructure the banking system," Berkan said.------------Turkey has its eye on euroland, and this painful shakeup can only facilitate (not hinder) the ultimate transition. Can the oil-rich Middle-East be much farther behind? Old Yeller (2/24/2001; 15:50:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 48878) An Angell with a dirty face http://www.the-privateer.com/gold6.html Ah, the Seinfeldization of US financial markets continues.Is this not the same Wayne Angell who defended himself in a lawsuit as not being an economist of considerable repute but being merely an "entertainer"?So, soothing words and predictions of another surprise rate cut by the entertainer, are enough to replenish instantly billions of lost market capitalization that panicked markets had vaporized earlier in the day.Next question;who do you think is going to play the role of the Gold Nazi-as in "no gold for you ,get out now"? megatron (2/24/2001; 15:33:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 48877) Our friend Bill This Marc Rich/Hasidic jews thing is so diseased I can't believe it ! The man is a sociopath. It's obvious. Someone has got to snap. Remember Caucescau? Where are the morons that would vote for him??? Or Gore??? Randy (@ The Tower) (2/24/2001; 14:30:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 48876) Past due...for ORO, others Been catching up on many items. Despite off and on appearances of posts here bearing my name, I am not always available to read responding material though it be sandwiched in clear view between two of mine. Please know, in absence of visible follow-up, that I do appreciate all comments from all posters, and do find/make time to read--even if only long after your fingers have rested many nights from the effort.So now let me properly acknowledge and thank you for your:ORO (2/20/2001; 10:38:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 48598)------"Randy, you asked whether the "natural" collapse of the gold scheme provides a better lesson than a cessation of government/banking manipulations by court order or by additional ECB or BIS intervention. [etc.]....------It often seems to me that we are as two men watching the same large storm but from different observation stations. Differing views and common views and perceptions all together. And while this wasn't your primary point of response, I enjoyed it best:-----"Overall, though people will vote with their feet into gold, they will still lend mind share to the Keynesian's cheerleading of "gold is dead" all the way to POG $30K or whatever. It is the few people like us at the forum and our tiny skeptical audiences which will be converted to having a "proven" theory for the first and to true converts for the latter. Generally, the blame will be broadcast loudly by politicians against their usual targets of "greedy speculators" and "price gouging" industry. Though politicians have scarcely any credibility to lose, popular faith in the possibility of positive government intervention in the markets, will only waver if people like ourselves forcefully attack the politicians and bureaucrats publicly, repeatedly, and smother them and the media with protestations and threats. On the grass roots level we can spend our time on one-on-one economic tutorials for the people at large."--------And I relished this:-----"It should be remembered that Jude Wanninski still believes that a planned economy is superior to a free market even after the clear demonstration of the opposite. He brushes aside the absence of motivation and mechanism for success in planned economies, focusing instead on finding rationalizations as to how the the Soviet planners erred, implying that had HE been given the reigns of policy and power, there would have been a successful planned economy. If he "gets it", he sure does hide it well."-------Ha! <grin>And while outside the scope of my solicitation for responses on this particular topic, I am glad you also shared your profound insights regarding how the shift toward self-sufficiency among emerging markets shall reduce the magnitude of future debt traps and also signals the limiting point is being reached at which America can expand its real trade deficits. Nice.And I hope everyone took notice of Mr. Gresham's posting today (msg#: 48864) these old words from Japan, as their truth has echoed long and frequently down the narrow halls and stairways of this Tower.***"Our American friends were paying little attention to maintaining the value of the U.S. dollar as an international key currency, and we were tempted to sell off (bond holdings). In terms of funds, it is true that we have not really made the right choice, shall I say, or advantageous choice. By selling Treasury bonds, we might increase our gold holdings. That is an option we had. Among countries around the world, there are many who hold their foreign currency reserves in the form of U.S. Treasury bonds. As long as they continue to maintain the U.S. government bonds -- even when the U.S. dollar is weakening relatively – it is because these countries are holding onto these government bonds that the U.S. economy is being maintained. Many people, in fact, don't realize this."***got advantage? Topaz (2/24/2001; 14:24:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 48875) SHIFTY Re: Baggers,Don't hear much of this expression nowadays, simply put it's a multiple of the buy price ie: buy @10 sell @100 = a "10 bagger".Down-trodden goldbugs are anticipating (at least) a "100-bagger" yes? Journeyman (2/24/2001; 14:18:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 48874) Just getting started @ORO Hi ORO!I mentioned "going back to the books and internet." I'm still at the "books" stage. Sharpening up my understanding of a few concepts, originary interest, and particularly no-arbitrage - - - I keep thinking of lack of arbitrage as "no time interval." I have to wack myself in the head a few more times, then I'll be ready to hit the net.Do you have any clues as to sites that give fairly comprehensive derivative data?Regards,Journeyman Galearis (2/24/2001; 13:34:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 48873) @ barnacle bill I'll have to remember to http:// for the next link... But it was not excitement about the debka site news that caused the error. Sir, 90% of all news items is spin and misdirection. This is especially the case for anything economic or political - this stuff is ALL spin. It is the basis for contrarianism (is that a word?)(yet?)(smile)In other words, the veracity of public truth is in adverse proportions to its importance.You heard it here first! (smile)G. SHIFTY (2/24/2001; 13:30:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 48872) Barron's Mailbag: Golden Dream http://www.thebulliondesk.com/DJNews/4375790.htm BARRON'S: Barron's Mailbag: Golden DreamTo the Editor: "Nobody expects gold prices to turn up soon," writes Cheryl Strauss Einhorn (Commodities Corner, February 12). Nobody? I expect that gold will start to rise in the not-too-distant future. Ferdi Dippenaar of Harmony Gold Mining should stop crying and start buying shares of his own company! I expect that Harmony will be at least a "fivebagger" and may be a "tenbagger" in the next 10 years! Why should gold rise? Well, for many reasons. The most important: "Nobody expects gold prices to turn up soon"! Michael Loewenstein Frankfurt, Germany (END) DOW JONES NEWS 02-24-01 ----------------------------------------------------------I have to ask what is a "fivebagger" and a "tenbagger" ??$hifty Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (2/24/2001; 12:52:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 48871) Golden Truth I have not read up on the nuetron bomb for at least 8 years, so what I give here could be somewhat dated. Neutron bombs are small because they are a tactical device. The primary objective for their use is to leave the existing infrastructure intact for subsequent use by the attacking force. Blast damage is "minimal" with the yield directed at producing lethal amounts of neutron radiation to kill the inhabitants. I suspect that they are "small" in the context of their ability to take out the population of a section of a city, rather than the whole city or metropolitan area. Pockets of resistance can be eliminated without leveling the area. Therefore their greatest utility is in an "offensive" (pun intended) role. As with any weapon, it can be used defensively as well, although a normal nuke would suffice for a strike against massed forces away from infrastructure deemed vital to a defender.IMHO the use of a neutron bomb on a fellow nuke state would guarantee a strategic nuclear response. The Los Alamos espionage case alarms Taiwan in particular, if advanced neutron bomb technology was acquired by the Red Chinese. That amazing economy with all that infrastructure on an island just offshore mainland China. It could be very unfortunate for the Taiwanese. barnacle bill (2/24/2001; 12:36:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 48870) www.debka - Galearis - Golden Truth I checked the debka website. It comes out of Jerusalem. At least that is where the phone# is. Why should I believe Jewish propaganda?At the start of the Gulf War, the mainstream media said the Iraqi army was poised on the border of Kuwait. A retired satellite photo analyst checked the photos for that time and place. His findings: the nearest Iraqi units were 250 miles away from the border. Those stories about Iraqi soldiers tossing babies out of incubators were false also.After WWI donations from all over the world were sent to Belgium for all the people who had their hands cut off by the Germans. It was reported that the Germans cut the hands off the Belgians so that the Belgians could not kill German soldiers. One rich guy went to Belgium to build an orphanage for all the kids with no hands. He looked all over and couldn't find any.I believe debka about as much as I believe CNBC. Mr Gresham (2/24/2001; 12:11:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 48869) BIS role: Journeyman Just a quick excerpting of the latest mentions of BIS from FOA's Trail:"Further; its no mistake of identification in understanding the ECB / BIS roll in all of this. That the ECB has started cashing in all it's interest on dollar reserves points to a new direction in currency warfare. ""So,,,, around early 1999, the BIS decided to allow the erosion of the paper gold markets to continue to conclusion without fighting it with outright buys. ""LeSin's post today (# 47852) about someone noting a BIS offer to take England's gold is to the point. ""Yet, the ECB (and the BIS) already knew this gold market of ours and knew it well. ""This truly backfired and now the BIS / ECB have the US fed in an inflation trap."He seems to equate the two (BIS/ECB) but maybe not; maybe it's just they know the likely market outcome, and are positioning themselves for survival as an organization (as all orgs seems to do).The mention of BIS shares at the end of "The Curve" is disdainful of the idea of profiting from paper ownership in BIS, not of BIS' role in affecting gold prices. Maybe we are lumping together the different parts of Howe's suit?; I'd have to re-read it (not time today). Golden Truth (2/24/2001; 10:53:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 48868) One last shot on correct U.R.L http://www.debka.com ooopps me so solly {:- Golden Truth (2/24/2001; 10:33:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 48867) Cick on this, sorry! http:// www.debka.com u.r.l Golden Truth (2/24/2001; 10:31:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 48866) http:// www.debka.com On thursday the middle East stepped back from the brink of all out total WAR!!!!! Clink on link above for the complete story maybe someone can post it all over here also. Major shit storm to hit soon, i always said GOLD woundn't rise until a nuclear WAR. Hey folks they are talking small NEUTRON bombs, how small?? I don't know. Good luck everyone G.T Knallgold (2/24/2001; 10:12:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 48865) (No Subject) From the WallStreet article:"LONDON -- The golden bear is just over 20 years old. The big question is whether it will celebrate a 21st birthday. Trading at $257 (283 euros) an ounce, gold is ..."US starts scoring Gold in euros?Didn't TrailGuide predict something that way in a very confusing sentence? Mr Gresham (2/24/2001; 10:09:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 48864) Good refresher on gold derivatives buildup http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_01/corrigan022201.html and manipulation to buildup Rocket Pressure! (Thank you very much!)Also, I had never seen the entire 1997 Hashimoto quote (very timely today):"Our American friends were paying little attention to maintaining the value of the U.S. dollar as an international key currency, and we were tempted to sell off (bond holdings). In terms of funds, it is true that we have not really made the right choice, shall I say, or advantageous choice. By selling Treasury bonds, we might increase our gold holdings. That is an option we had. Among countries around the world, there are many who hold their foreign currency reserves in the form of U.S. Treasury bonds. As long as they continue to maintain the U.S. government bonds -- even when the U.S. dollar is weakening relatively – it is because these countries are holding onto these government bonds that the U.S. economy is being maintained. Many people, in fact, don't realize this.'`I hope the U.S. will engage in efforts and cooperation to maintain exchange stability so that we will not succumb to this temptation to sell off government bonds and switch our foreign reserves to gold.'"You don't hear the Japanese mention gold very often, do you? I wonder how often Japanese businessmen go on "business trips" to Switzerland?Lots more good tidbits in the link... Galearis (2/24/2001; 9:52:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 48863) Iraq on the march? www.debka.com Thursday, Feb. 23– the Day the Middle East Stepped Back from the Brink? Mr Gresham (2/24/2001; 9:50:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 48862) Tony & Shrub "Er, sorry old chap, but we ARE Europeans, after all.""I always thought you Anglicans were the same as us, except for that funny word 'petrol'. Never could get over that one..." Journeyman (2/24/2001; 9:40:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 48861) Is BIS still "our" friend? @Trail Guide http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/665 According to Howe's latest (link in header), BIS has become since being side-lined by The Maastrict Treaty, like the March of Dimes after Jonas Salk's vaccine, in search of a new cause.This is how Howe puts it:For many gold bugs, the transition of the BIS from aEuropean ally to an important tool of official Anglo-American gold bashing is perhaps the most surprisingand disheartening development of the past few years. Asreflected in the trascript of the Federal Open MarketCommittee's conference call of July 20, 1994,+(http://www.federalreserve.gov/fomc/Transcripts/1994/940720ConfCall.pdf)+this transformation stems from the Treaty ofMaastricht, which put the European Monetary Institutefollowed by the European Central Bank on track toreplace the BIS as the primary vehicle for joint actionand cooperation among European central banks. To avoidbeing sidelined as irrelevant, the BIS undertook toreinvent itself as a global financial institution, aneffort that the ever-opportunistic U.S. Federal ReserveChairman Alan Greenspan was only too pleased tosupport. So, although the BIS charter still specifies it's accounting be done in currencies "which in the opinion of the Board satisfy the practical requirements of the gold or gold exchange standard", with it's two new board members, the FED's Greenspan & McDonough, which "currency wars" army is BIS fighting in. Or is she a double agent now?Regards,Journeyman Galearis (2/24/2001; 9:39:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 48860) @ Golden Truth, "white flag" gold white flags I believe T.G. was referring to the three day lack of gold leasing of the BOE. When one is out of ammunition, it encourages the option of discussion of options (smile).G. Golden Truth (2/24/2001; 9:18:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 48859) To F.O.A I gather after reading your first post of the day to USAGOLD that Michael knows what you are talking about, specifically your mentioning "The White Flag" or the General in the White suit? This seems obtuse to me and probally others here as well, or am I missing something? If I have to speculate, are you referring to that little number released by the W.G.C about the Physical Gold shortage that was showing up at the Refinery's ??? If I,am wrong please forgive, but also please clue the rest of us In also. Thankyou G.T :-) Trail Guide (2/24/2001; 7:15:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 48858) Comment USAGOLD (Michael),In a line from Forest Gump; "stupid is as stupid does"!I have to observe that; "Confidential is as Confidential does"! (smile)The point I was making to the forum (for some time now) is that; ECB / BIS were telling everyone to go ahead and print all the paper gold the market can stand because we don't want your kind of market anyway,,, anymore. All the while watching to see just how far the ratio of official physical to paper could expand. Sooner or later, London would hit the mathematical no return point and something had to give. Are we there yet?Now we see a little white flag that's; from the other side,,,, and no one else was to see it,,,,, yet it was about as private as having your general walk out on the battlefield dressed in white! This little confidential note could be saying; let's talk about this,,,, can we work something out,,,,, perhaps we can do whatever it is you guys want to do? (smile)But, you never know what is behind these little notes? Could be just a trial balloon? Never the less, I think we are moving into a new stage in all this and our paper market place for gold is about to get "adjusted somewhat" for it's ability to equal physical. As Another would most surely say to their signal,,, "we talk now, yes"!Randy and all,I want to take another trail hike but am waiting for the weather to settle. Storm clouds are blowing in and I want to walk with a few private friends before the wind. Never know, might have to board up a window in the thick of it. (smile) OK, be back when able.TrailGuide Knallgold (02/24/01; 03:39:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 48857) New Gold market,TG TrailGuide gone again?Buying Champagne for the opening party of EBES ?My question,I don't think it has been answered yet:how can I, as the small investor, reach this new market?It was advised "make sure your Gold is at hand",but how will it be, buying/selling da real stuff on da real market,EBES? Do I have to go to my friendly,then illiquid bullionbank? Or should I better change to ANOTHER bank before the fact?TIA Mr Gresham (2/24/2001; 2:56:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 48856) Journeyman Thanks for the Mises link. I'll probably never have the opportunity to deliver my line in a true Nixonian moment, but I want you to remember me when a US President first tosses off his economic overview with: "We're all Misesians now." (Just try to pronounce that! Maybe Keynes had an advantage just in a more adaptable name.) If it's W who gets there first, he'll probably wonder if Mise is one of those Balkan countries near Switzerland... Old Yeller (2/24/2001; 2:19:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 48855) Hurry,hurry,the current five year plan is about to expire http://m1.mny.co.za/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B2422569FB003B07F6?OpenDocument Most of this article is old news,interesting points,though.Biggest faux pas;recommending Anglo Gold.Biggest understatement:"while trying to obtain physical gold in the event of a crisis might prove difficult." ORO (2/24/2001; 1:01:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 48854) Journeyman - how is your search going Having a rather mercenary interest in the existence of materials on the matter at issue; interest rates, the Modern Financial theory from Sharpe to Black and Scholes through Markovitz and others, and the interaction of these with the established notions of fiduciary instruments, default, real economic returns, and originary interest.So, how goes your search?Do you have particular questions to ask? Thoughts and findings to display? Chris Powell (2/24/2001; 1:00:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 48853) Wall Street Journal reports GATA/Howe lawsuit http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gata/message/676 Can the end of the suppression ofthe gold price be far behind?To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by email and get them immediately so you don't have to go look for them, send an email to:gata-subscribe@yahoogroups.com IronHead (2/24/2001; 0:52:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 48852) Sir Farfel's Goldsell Dutch Auction Being of close biological relation to the (purported) mythical rabbit Harvey, found in the classic movie, featuring the late great Jimmy Stuart and "Harvey", as himself; I declare that there exists nothing lower than nothing - even a negative multiple of nothing equals nothing.So I do hereby bid absolutely nothing for the correspondence of the addressee, as the words and wisdom contained in this apologist propaganda, surely mean nothing, from an organization that has done nothing to further the plight of its shareholders, or promote the gold which they supposedly mine for profit.The reason for sharing my mythical ancestory, was to qualify and substantiate the expertise "rabbits" have for listening to human obfuscation and clearly differentiating fact from fiction, when nothing is being said. Without even perusing the aforementioned drivel, my "rabbit" ears can hear the lies and deceit spewing forth; about how Anglogold has done everything in its power to help its shareholders, mine workers and other company employees, the nation in which it maintains [operations], and rabbits, er goldhearts worldwide!But alas.....The empty words surely would mean nothing to this rabbit - FOR I AM HIPPITY HOPPING DOWN THE GOLD TRAIL....PHYSICAL, THAT IS!!Hugs and kisses to you Anglogold and others of your ilk, which include all the short selling delta/gama/beta hedge fund banking cronie facists, for the opportunity of a lifetime, to steal your pockets blind, as I fill my pockets with the reality which you recognize as nothing.........Yet soon you will!SalutationsHarvey, er IronHead AUgustUS (2/24/2001; 0:48:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 48851) Re : R Powell (02/23/01; 17:36:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 48829) Derivative contract on gold Hi Rich,On a full reading of my Bid proposal, it is clear my offering is a "PERSONALISED Derivative Contract" that takes the several "value distortion" mechanisms currently affecting ALL derivative contracts into account.There are several restrictions on my derivative contract in that it for one is NOT transferrable into any "tangible" asset. As such, the "Personalised Derivative contract" CAN NOT be exchanged for ANYTHING of value. Much as the US currently operates the USD today. Foreigners may be paid in USD notes for their produced assets NOW - in CASH, or they may invest their USD proceeds in US treasury bills, stock certificates etc and take their USD "currency derivative notes" LATER. They MAY NOT exchange their "USD derivative contract currency units" for Gold or ANY OHER asset. In other words, foreigners are being offered a "derivative contract" - OR ... a "derivative contract". They do have one choice though. To take it now ....... OR ..... to take it later. Great choice don't think ?You use an example to illustrate your point saying : "As for worthless, I watched about $500-800 worth of "derivatives" become marked-to-market at about $19,000 over a period of roughly a month..... It was not gold, but I was one happy camper to settle with paper money."You may have considered yourself "one happy camper" holding a fist full of paper and no gold. How would you like to be living in Turkey where you could have watch your money "earn" a rate of interest that went from +- 40 % to 4,000-5,000 % - OVER NIGHT ? Beats your "return" - hands down. As a second example - do you think you would have enjoyed living in Germany during it's period of "currency derivative" hyper-inflation where you could have taken your "happy camper" full of "derivative" currency notes and exchanged it for a mere loaf of bread (if you were lucky) - and NO gold ? (happy) (smile)Maybe, Maybe NOT ? Golden Truth (2/24/2001; 0:37:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 48850) Re: Godsell's Dutch Auction and FARFEL!!! www.bloodsuckers.com I would like to submit one drop of "Blood". That is all i have left since i've purchased GOLD. I got pretty excited when the P.O.G started to rise in Sept 99. Then the B.O.E comes out of "nowhere" and wants to sell all their GOLD??????????? "YAH RIGHT" The one drop of Blood is all i have left since they've sucked all the rest out of me, and i HATE, HATE, HATE them for it!!!! I,am also now starting to look for the 7.999999 quarts of blood that the bastards have now sucked out of me. Heaven help them if i ever get a chance to pay them a personal little visit, a drowning or dying man is the most dangerous animal on Earth. I will stand before my GOD and except his punishment, which will still be alot less than what they will get!!! So i offer my one last "Drop of Blood", because according to the S.O.B's that are getting away with murdering the P.O.G all common people who own Gold are worthless and should be eradicated!!! and sucked dry! So "Cry Havoc! and let slip the "Dogs of War" or sweet Revenge. G.T Black Blade (2/24/2001; 0:28:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 48849) Re: ORO I know what you're saying. I see that the colleges and universities do not graduate people with skills that are useful in the mining and petroleum industry. These careers have been considered "Dirty Careerws" in "Dirty Industries" and students have been steered away from them. There are few people who are experienced and have "an eye" for what to look for in mining and petroleum. For example, a typical university might may have 25 geology students. Of those 20, 15 may graduate as environmental/environmental geochem geologists, 5 as hydro-geologists, 2 as secondary education teachers, 2 as geological engineers, and 1 just may even end up in mining or petroleum. The situation is similar in the area of mining engineering as well. Very few have focused on the "Dirty Industries" and now that we are facing shortages of cheap raw materials to float the market, I would say that "Interesting" times lay ahead. ORO (02/24/01; 00:08:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 48848) Black Blade - automate this... OR "the coming shortage of skilled old tech workers"The same kind of shortage that has pushed high tech companies to provide their people with options instead of cash, thus providing their products at less than cost to the market (MSFT, when the full benefit of the options to its employees is valued has not made a penny in over 10 years - and loses up to $1 for each $1 sale), will push resource companies to attempt all kinds of funny arrangements so as to not admit to the cost of engineering and management talent. After the high tech experience of the past decade plays out over the next couple of years, the markets will not allow it. Finding someone with heavy engineering skills is always hard. After years of unraveling the industrial infrastructure of the country by a monetarily driven displacement by imports, the US is at a point where there are not even enough people in the country to teach the subject matter. Those who remain in academia have moved the bulk of research to nigh tech applications, and many engineers graduate chemical and mechanical engineering schooling as programmers and media people, rather than having much skill in their core subject.The Republican tax subplan, of moving taxes from income to consumption would have the result of moving relative pricing (US vs International) from being pro imports to being pro exports. Along with the move away from dollar reserves (and Triffin's requisite import flow), this would tend to move import prices upwards relative to local prices by a wide margin, close to a 50% swing, perhaps more. The demand for old tech engineering skills to build and run the import replacement industries would be very intense. Even with modern high tech tools, the engineer must exercise judgment and care in research, design, construction supervision, and operation. Heavy industry management is also very strongly dependent on technical understanding, thus making management talent more difficult to find.Because of recent experience in the 90s, where people were thrown out of jobs as R&D and production were closed down, the schools will not be providing these people for most of the decade. Black Blade (02/24/01; 00:07:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 48847) Gold producers divided on hedging http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pagename=View&c=Article&cid=FT3LAAQHHJC&live=true&useoverridetemplate=IXLZHNNP94C Snippit:In any other industry, the closing out of a small hedge position would attract little interest. It would not be considered worth a public announcement, nor would it push up a company's share price. Only in the gold industry is hedging such a politically charged issue.Black Blade: Very interesting article that covers hedging practices. Sure are a lot of stupid miners out there. That's the problem with having bean counters managing gold producers. These managers may do OK in other businesses, however, gold mining is not like other business. They are more concerned with bonus checks and less so with shareholder value. People with actual experience in background in mining would likely perform better and have confidence in their product. Journeyman (02/24/01; 00:06:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 48846) Originary interest @Mr Gresham http://www.mises.org/humanaction/chap19sec2.asp Hi Mr. G!You were interested in "originary interest" I believe? The above link will take you directly to Mises presentation in Human Action.Regards, j. ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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