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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 2/23/2001 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) SteveH (02/23/01; 23:47:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 48845) From the protecting gold series and repost www.kitco.com Date: Fri Feb 23 2001 16:00Pendragon (Great Speech From Charlton Heston) ID#167120:Copyright © 2000 Pendragon/Kitco Inc. All rights reservedIntroduction to speech This is a little old, but I just saw it for the first time and feel it is Worth Sharing and worth the time it takes to read it, because its message is as true today as it was when the speech was delivered, if not more so. For 50 years, the Harvard Law School Forum has been sponsoring speeches by luminaries ranging from Fidel Castro to Gerald Ford to Dr. Ruth. Sometimes the speeches have generated a bit of media coverage, sometimes not. But one given last month by Charlton Heston has taken on a life of its own. Heston, the actor and conservative activist, delivered a stem-winder to about 200 listeners about "a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and say what resides in your heart." "He knew he was coming to a liberal environment, and clearly a group of his listeners was conservative and another was more liberal," said David Christopherson, president of the forum. "About half respectfully challenged him during the questions. It generated a lot of debate around the campus. But what's happened caught us off-guard." What happened was Rush Limbaugh's radio talk show. On March 15, Limbaugh read the entire speech on the air, only to find himself bombarded with thousands of requests for a copy of it. The same thing happened at Harvard Law. "We couldn't keep up with all the requests," said Mike Chmura at Harvard. "It really didn't have legs and might have been forgotten if Mr. Limbaugh hadn't decided to deliver it." * 'Winning the Cultural War' Charlton Heston's Speech to the Harvard Law School Forum February 16, 1999 I remember my son when he was five, explaining to his kindergarten class what his father did for a living. "My Daddy," he said, "pretends to be people." There have been quite a few of them. Prophets from the Old and New Testaments, a couple of Christian saints, generals of various nationalities and different centuries, several kings, three American presidents, a French cardinal and two geniuses, including Michelangelo. If you want the ceiling re-painted I'll do my best. There always seem to be a lot of different fellows up here. I'm never sure which one of them gets to talk. Right now, I guess I'm the guy. As I pondered our visit tonight it struck me: If my Creator gave me the gift to connect you with the hearts and minds of those great men, then I want to use that same gift now to re-connect you with your own sense of liberty of your own freedom of thought ... your own compass for what is right. Dedicating the memorial at Gettysburg, Abraham Lincoln said of America, "We are now engaged in a great Civil War, testing whether this nation or any nation so conceived and so dedicated can long endure." Those words are true again. I believe that we are again engaged in a great civil war, a cultural war that's about to hijack your birthright to think and say what resides in your heart. I fear you no longer trust the pulsing lifeblood of liberty inside you ... the stuff that made this country rise from wilderness into the miracle that it is. Let me back up. About a year ago I became president of the National Rifle Association, which protects the right to keep and bear arms. I ran for office, I was elected, and now I serve ... I serve as a moving target for the media who've called me everything from "ridiculous" and "duped" to a "brain-injured, senile, crazy old man." I know ... I'm pretty old... but I sure ain't senile. As I have stood in the crosshairs of those who target Second Amendment freedoms, I've realized that firearms are not the only issue. No, it's much, much bigger than that. I've come to understand that a cultural war is raging across our land, in which, with Orwellian fervor, certain acceptable thoughts and speech are mandated. For example, I marched for civil rights with Dr. King in 1963 - long before Hollywood found it fashionable. But when I told an audience last year that white pride is just as valid as black pride or red pride or anyone else's pride, they called me a racist. I've worked with brilliantly talented homosexuals all my life. But when I told an audience that gay rights should extend no further than your rights or my rights, I was called a homophobe. I served in World War II against the Axis powers. But during a speech, when I drew an analogy between singling out innocent Jews and singling out innocent gun owners, I was called an anti-Semite. Everyone I know knows I would never raise a closed fist against my country. But when I asked an audience to oppose this cultural persecution, I was compared to Timothy McVeigh. From Time magazine to friends and colleagues, they're essentially saying, "Chuck, how dare you speak your mind. You are using language not authorized for public consumption!" But I am not afraid. If Americans believed in political correctness, we'd still be King George's boys - subjects bound to the British crown. In his book, "The End of Sanity," Martin Gross writes that "blatantly irrational behavior is rapidly being established as the norm in almost every area of human endeavor. There seem to be new customs, new rules, new anti-intellectual theories regularly foisted on us from every direction. Underneath, the nation is roiling. Americans know something without a name is undermining the nation, turning the mind mushy when it comes to separating truth from falsehood and right from wrong. And they don't like it. " Let me read a few examples. At Antioch college in Ohio, young men seeking intimacy with a coed must get verbal permission at each step of the process from kissing to petting to final copulation ... all clearly spelled out in a printed college directive. In New Jersey, despite the death of several patients nationwide who had been infected by dentists who had concealed their AIDs --- the state commissioned announced that health providers who are HIV-positive need not..... need not..... tell their patients that they are infected. At William and Mary, students tried to change the name of the school team "The Tribe" because it was supposedly insulting to local Indians, only to learn that authentic Virginia chiefs truly like the name. In San Francisco, city fathers passed an ordinance protecting the rights of transvestites to cross-dress on the job, and for transsexuals to have separate toilet facilities while undergoing sex change surgery. In New York City, kids who don't speak a word of Spanish have been placed in bilingual classes to learn their three R's in Spanish solely because their last names sound Hispanic. At the University of Pennsylvania, in a state where thousands died at Gettysburg opposing slavery, the president of that college officially set up segregated dormitory space for black students. Yeah, I know ... that's out of bounds now. Dr. King said "Negroes." Jimmy Baldwin and most of us on the March said, "black." But it's a no-no now. For me, hyphenated identities are awkward ... particularly "Native-American." I'm a Native American, for God's sake. I also happen to be a blood-initiated brother of the Miniconjou Sioux. On my wife's side, my grandson is a thirteenth generation Native American... with a capital letter on "American." Finally, just last month ... David Howard, head of the Washington D.C. Office of Public Advocate, used the word "niggardly" while talking to colleagues about budgetary matters. Of course, "niggardly" means stingy or scanty. But within days Howard was forced to publicly apologize and resign. As columnist Tony Snow wrote: "David Howard got fired because some people in public employ were morons who, ( a ) didn't know the meaning of niggardly, ( b ) didn't know how to use a dictionary to discover the meaning, and, ( c ) actually demanded that he apologize for their ignorance." What does all of this mean? It means that telling us what to think has evolved into telling us what to say, so telling us what to do can't be far behind. Before you claim to be a champion of free thought, tell me: Why did political correctness originate on America's campuses? And why do you continue to tolerate it? Why do you, who're supposed to debate ideas, surrender to their suppression? Let's be honest. Who here thinks your professors can say what they really believe? It scares me to death, and should scare you too, that the superstition of political correctness rules the halls of reason. You are the best and the brightest. You, here in the fertile cradle of American academia, here in the castle of learning on the Charles River, you are the cream. But I submit that you, and your counterparts across the land, are the most socially conformed and politically silenced generation since Concord Bridge. And as long as you validate that ... and abide it ... you are - by your grandfathers' standards - cowards. Here's another example. Right now at more than one major university, Second Amendment scholars and researchers are being told to shut up about their findings or they'll lose their jobs. Why? Because their research findings would undermine big-city mayor's pending lawsuits that seek to extort hundreds of millions of dollars from firearm manufacturers. I don't care what you think about guns. But if you are not shocked at that, I am shocked at you. Who will guard the raw material of unfettered ideas, if not you? Who will defend the core value of academia, if you supposed soldiers of free thought and expression lay down your arms and plead, "Don't shoot me?" If you talk about race, it does not make you a racist. If you see distinctions between the genders, it does not make you a sexist. If you think critically about a denomination, it does not make you anti-religion. If you accept but don't celebrate homosexuality, it does not make you a homophobe. Don't let America's universities continue to serve as incubators for this rampant epidemic of new McCarthyism. But what can you do? How can anyone prevail against such pervasive social subjugation? The answer's been here all along. I learned it 36 years ago, on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial in Washington D.C., standing with Dr. Martin Luther King and two hundred thousand people. You simply ... disobey. Peaceably, yes. Respectfully, of course. Nonviolently, absolutely. But when told how to think or what to say or how to behave, we don't. We disobey social protocol that stifles and stigmatizes personal freedom. I learned the awesome power of disobedience from Dr. King ... who learned it from Gandhi, and Thoreau, and Jesus, and every other great man who led those in the right against those with the might. Disobedience is in our DNA. We feel innate kinship with that disobedient spirit that tossed tea into Boston Harbor, that sent Thoreau to jail, that refused to sit in the back of the bus, that protested a war in Vietnam. In that same spirit, I am asking you to disavow cultural correctness with massive disobedience of rogue authority, social directives and onerous laws that weaken personal freedom. But be careful ... it hurts. Disobedience demands that you put yourself at risk. Dr. King stood on lots of balconies. You must be willing to be humiliated ... to endure the modern-day equivalent of the police dogs at Montgomery and the water cannons at Selma. You must be willing to experience discomfort. I'm not complaining, but my own decades of social activism have taken their toll on me. Let me tell you a story. A few years back I heard about a rapper named Ice-T who was selling a CD called "Cop Killer" celebrating ambushing and murdering police officers. It was being marketed by none other than Time/Warner, the biggest entertainment conglomerate in the world. Police across the country were outraged. Rightfully so-at least one had been murdered. But Time/Warner was stonewalling because the CD was a cash cow for them, and the media were tiptoeing around it because the rapper was black. I heard Time/Warner had a stockholders meeting scheduled in Beverly Hills. I owned some shares at the time, so I decided to attend. What I did there was against the advice of my family and colleagues. I asked for the floor. To a hushed room of a thousand average American stockholders, I simply read the full lyrics of "Cop Killer"- every vicious, vulgar, instructional word. "I GOT MY 12 GAUGE SAWED OFF I GOT MY HEADLIGHTS TURNED OFF I'M ABOUT TO BUST SOME SHOTS OFF I'M ABOUT TO DUST SOME COPS OFF..." It got worse, a lot worse. I won't read the rest of it to you. But trust me, the room was a sea of shocked, frozen, blanched faces. The Time/Warner executives squirmed in their chairs and stared at their shoes. They hated me for that. Then I delivered another volley of sick lyric brimming with racist filth, where Ice-T fantasizes about sodomizing two 12-year old nieces of Al and Tipper Gore. "SHE PUSHED HER BUTT AGAINST MY...." Well, I won't do to you here what I did to them. Let's just say I left the room in echoing silence. When I read the lyrics to the waiting press corps, one of them said, "We can't print that." "I know," I replied, "but Time/Warner's selling it." Two months later, Time/Warner terminated Ice-T's contract. I'll never be offered another film by Warner's, or get a good review from Time magazine. But disobedience means you must be willing to act, not just talk. When a mugger sues his elderly victim for defending herself ... jam the switchboard of the district attorney's office. When your university is pressured to lower standards until 80% of the students graduate with honors ... choke the halls of the board of regents. When an 8-year-old boy pecks a girl's cheek on the playground and gets hauled into court for sexual harassment ... march on that school and block its doorways. When someone you elected is seduced by political power and betrays you...petition them, oust them, banish them. When Time magazine's cover portrays millennium nuts as deranged, crazy Christians holding a cross as it did last month ... boycott their magazine and the products it advertises. So that this nation may long endure, I urge you to follow in the hallowed footsteps of the great "disobediences" of history that freed exiles, founded religions, defeated tyrants, and yes, in the hands of an aroused rabble in arms and a few great men, by God's grace, built this country. If Dr. King were here, I think he would agree. *** Black Blade (02/23/01; 23:29:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 48844) Looking for a job? Talk to an oil company http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010222/n2245526_2.html Snippit:NEW YORK, Feb 22 (Reuters) - It's lonely at the top -- or so it seems for chief executives of U.S. oil companies.After years of layoffs, including heavy job cuts in the late 1990s when oil prices sank to 10-year lows, energy companies are struggling to find enough petroleum engineers and geologists to staff oil projects. Otherwise enjoying some of its best times ever -- many companies posted record profits last year -- industry executives say the worker shortage could be the biggest problem now facing the business.Black Blade: As I have mentioned before, there aren't enough professional people to meet the demands of the energy sector. I know of many who have left the gold mining industry to work in oil and gas. When gold turns around, there won't be very many people left to pick up the pieces. The mining companies have only themselves to blame. When POG rises, it should get "interesting." Black Blade (02/23/01; 22:02:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 48843) RE: Farfel Farfel,An interesting approach to Mr. Goldsell's "Dutch Auction." I'll offer my urine as payment. Yes I value my urine. When I wish to obtain employment my prospective employers always want my urine. There must be some value since they all want it. So I offer Mr. Goldsell something so valuable that every employer wants it - My urine (heck, even the color is sorta similar). I will take payment in gold (even ounce for ounce). Now first let me get a very large keg of beer and I'll be right with ya!- Black Blade megatron (02/23/01; 21:38:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 48842) working kirk Your thoughts on Heir Greenspan's 'perceived' backstabbing of 'us' gold investor's are, I believe, common mis-perceptions about the man, especially by gold bugs. Alan Greenspan came from a typical STRONGLY altruist, New Deal family with very stong sympathetic beliefs about mankind in general. First, most people have thier character moulded in the first five years of life, by thier parents, or lack of.Greenspan had to be CONVINCED of the objectionist philosophy by no less than Ayn Rand. My contention is that underneath the surface lies the philosphical heart of an extreme altruist/sympathist whose personal goal is to 'save' mankind from harm, lessons he would have been taught at the earliest of ages. Altruists are always the most insane of all people but at the helm of the worlds banking establishment is a recipe for financial disaster. The 'goldbug' tag that he has been given is undeserved. He is in NO WAY A GOLD PROPONENT! He is an altruist which is the exact opposite of the rational individual, and should be treated as Fleckstein says, THE MOST DANGEROUS MAN ALIVE. justamereBear (02/23/01; 21:31:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 48841) Taylor Smith 48810 (in addition to Beesting 48839) The physical size of a one ounce 9999 gold coin is slightly smaller in diameter than a 25 cent coin (probably a bit larger than a 5 cent piece) the gold coin is thicker than the quarter though, and probably has about the same volume of metal. The price of gold set by the US ($35) was a few percent over the going market rate, expressed in US dollars. This $35 US price had the effect of devaluating the dollar, thus making it more competetive in the world trade market.j'Bear justamereBear (02/23/01; 21:08:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 48840) Farfel/Goldsell Aunuggets Workingkirk Tree in the Forest Aunuggets 48830Possibly the far distant futures contract. I recall getting very excited seeing those numbers before I realized what was happening, but I did see numbers over $1100.00, not 1450.00. Did not have much to do with the market in those days, just owned a bit of physical.Workingkirk 48828Somebody said that every boy in America is told that anyone can become president. I believe them.Farfel/ Goldsell auction.I bid one photon of light, which is all that is now needed to illuminate the precarious situation that the various 'powers that be' have contrived to get us into. I became aware of the impending crisis that faces mankind in Feb. 1987. Accordingly, I bought precious metals to the extent possible with the resources available to me. As you all know, in Oct. 1987, the market started to crash. Gold started to run up in fiat dollar terms. Some mysterious entity came into the markets, and managed a turnaround. These mysterious entities have made themselves painfully evident on several instances since that time, by managing turnarounds, in direct opposition to the facts and logic of a free market system.Having been adamant that I would never remarry for nearly 20 years, I met a lady that changed my mind, effortlessly.I firmly believe that the tension that arose, from the conundrum of the logic and facts, opposed to what was happening in the managed market, was a significant contributor to my heart attack in 1990, 53 days after the wedding ceremony. Four days after rejoining her from out of the intensive care unit, she demanded a divorce. Heart attacks make everybody concerned a bit unsane.So, you see, it is possible to lose far more than mere fiat because of the misguided actions of 'the powers that be'. To add insult to injury, the price of precious metals, expressed in fiat terms, has been declining steadily ever since, under these managed markets.Every historian and oldtimer in the markets knows that protracted bear markets are much more dehabilitating to the economy than markets crashes to the same point. The 'powers that be' seem intent on letting the air out of the bubble that is/was our markets today, slowly. In short, a protracted bear market. The pundits seem amazed at the speed and depth that the 'recession' is currently developing in the US today. The USSR managed its economy right up till the time of its bankruptcy. What other evidence does one need that managed markets ultimately fail? In the 3 years between 1990 and 1993 the life expectancy of the average Russian fell by 5 years.There will be deaths, many deaths, as a result of the actions of the misguided few who believe that they were bigger than the market, and can control it. In fact, there may be blood in the streets. PS; Farfel, you did say the contest was about negative effects, with what I understand as the symbolically smallest amount that one might bid.??? Of course the fun is in finding ludicrous terms of payment. Tree in the Forest 48825It is interesting that the US is suddenly rediscovering how bad a boy Saddam is, and how the news of this amazing rediscovery (and subsequent bombings) has proliferated through the news.Best regardsj'Bear beesting (02/23/01; 20:22:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 48839) Taylor Smith # 48810---HELP! http://www.kitco.com/cgi-bin/yearly_graphs.cgi Click on the above link and you can get the chart showing price of Gold for 1979 & 1980. The high of $850 per ounce was reached in Jan. 1980.Gold in 1944 was fixed in the U.S. by the Government at $35.00 per ounce. From 1849 till 1933 Gold was minted in the U.S. at face value $20.00 per ounce and used in everyday commerce by the people of the U.S.A London "Good Delivery Bar"(Gold Bullion) weighs 400 ounces and is stored in quantity by Central Banks, Ft. Knox & other large holders of Gold.Gold is currently officially valued by The U.S. Treasury Department at $42.2222 per ounce(Don't ask me why). Good luck with your book....beesting. gidsek (02/23/01; 20:15:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 48838) RAP Average down! ... you'll be the proud owner of your very own gold-mining company.gidsek RAP (02/23/01; 19:23:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 48837) The Goldsell Auction continues.... http://www.vistagold.com/ I bought many thousands of shares of VGZ back in 1995-1996 era at an average price of about $2 each. At its low just a few months ago it traded for 3.125 cents. This is a drop of 64 times.It is so low it would cost me money to sell it, just to cover the brokers fee's.For this I would like to bid 1ea Turkish Lira!(at the time of the close of the auction, not now!)RAPPS: The good news is its up 300% since the low. Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (02/23/01; 19:06:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 48836) Response to Author For some reason the figure $843/oz. is nagging me as the high for POG, although I think it happened in 1980. If you have to be accurate to a timeframe in 1979, check the newspapers at the library to get a POG for a specific date in 1979. You can call any large city or university library and ask the reference librarian to get the price from the paper for you. They live to help authors. (There may be some way to get a daily record for POG in 1979 on the net.) R Powell (02/23/01; 18:27:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 48835) Single click only Hunt for Red October I see that Jeff has added a single click only sign to the submit message button. I'll bet I'm not the only one who thought of Captain Rameous of the Red October signaling the U.S. sub with a location ping. "Give me a ping please mister Presiley, one ping only." And after all the conditioning I've been through to "double click". I'll try my best. Rich RossL (02/23/01; 18:06:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 48834) Hill Billy Mitchell If you can come up with the numbers, I will make the chart! Hill Billy Mitchell (02/23/01; 18:03:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 48833) RossL @ # 48818 You are correct. I was referring to the chart per Randy's post # 4807.On the other charts which you produced from my data I presented the Annual Prices expressed in nominal dollars and in inflation adjusted dollars. I believe that the chart which Randy posted reflected the annual price of the DOW in nominal dollars. If it were expressed in constant year 2000 dollars I believe that we would have an more clear picture with to compare the pimple in 20's with Mt. Everest of the 90's. Without inflation adjusted numbers we have no true comparison.Very respectfully,HBM aunuggets (02/23/01; 17:59:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 48832) "Quirks" in local bullion markets ? Like others, I've noticed some "unusual" happenings in the local bullion markets of late (i.e. coin and pawn shops). Thinking some of these were one time events, I started following things a bit closer and have noticed this about the premium rates charged on the one ounce coins in particular:With AU spot at or near the $280 level, premiums tend to stay within the range of $10 or so per coin. When the spot price drops to the $260 range, premiums are inflated to $20-$25 per coin. Above the $280 level, they seem to stay within the $10 per coin range.Might help explain the local availability of ouncers, even through downward trends.Kudos to those dealers who adjust their coin prices according to the spot prices, not taking advantage of the "psychological" aspects of falling spot (i.e. "price gouging"). Local buyers seem to be going elsewhere as the coins remain on local dealer shelves....... RossL (02/23/01; 17:45:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 48831) Ponzi http://home.columbus.rr.com/rossl/gold.htm The Ponzi was down to 6250 at about 2:00 this afternoon, but a miraculous rally brought it back up in the last 2 hours. aunuggets (02/23/01; 17:44:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 48830) JCTex....Gold Prices '79-'80 ???? You said "......and gold went from $820 [January, 1979] to $1,094 in December. The next month topped out at $1,437".Was heavily involved in AU markets through that period in history, and never recall seeing valuations along those lines.What source are you quoting to come up with those figures ? R Powell (02/23/01; 17:36:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 48829) Derivative contract on gold AUgustUS (48819) offers a derivative contract as his worthless bid in Farfel's Goldsell Auction contest. Offering's description: "It may be a currency derivative, a stock derivative, a derivative contract on gold.." Why are paper contracts so despised? In a free market, operating under the unhindered (not manipulated) forces of supply and demand, paper contracts and their derivatives provide the means of transfer between buyer and seller. The speculator adds liquidity so that the markets can function at all times (not just harvest time for grains, etc.). If the working mechanics of a market are unethically or unlawfully used, it is not the machinery that is offensive but the operator/manipulator. As for worthless, I watched about $500-800 worth of "derivatives" become marked-to-market at about $19,000 over a period of roughly a month. If memory serves me, it was shortly after September 26, 1999. These were derivatives bought with paper fiat and settled with the same. It was not gold, but I was one happy camper to settle with paper money. I find it extremely useful if spent quickly. It pays the bills. Gold is good- in many forms for many uses, Rich working-kirk (02/23/01; 17:02:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 48828) The Goldsell Auction continues.... There are some SERIOUS cheapskates out there but here is something GUARANTEED to be worthlessA politician's Promise!Can anyone think of anything more worthless?Of course, some politician are even more worthless than other so I will aloud you a choice:Bill and Hillary Clinton.In the most scandal ridden presidency (And that is saying a lot if you know the history of Warren Taft, U.S. Grant and L.B.J. administrations) This couple has taken lying, stealing, murder, treason, (And that only what we know) to new lows. Personally, I can see why Bill would chase anything wearing a dress. I would too if I was married to his wife. But where I grew up, if you were a womanizer, you bragged about it. Consider, his least harmful lie was pointing straight to the camera and saying; "I did not have sex with that woman."If he did and admitted it, some of us wouldn't like it but hey, consider it one of the perks of being Prez. Instead he had to go off and bomb some country becoming a mass murderer and a war criminal. Personally I am enough of a libertianto think who you sleep with is nobody's business but the two other people in bed with you. But murder is murder and starting a war is the worst type of murder.Alan (What me manipulate?) GreenspanThe promise of the Federal Reserve was that it was suppose to keep the valve of the dollar and prevent depressions. Guess Alan didn't keep that promise. However, the biggest promise he broke was that of recognizing the value of gold. He wrote about its role and how governments destroy it especially through the Federal Reserve. So what does he do. He become Chairman and will wreck the economy of the world.It takes a special hypocrite to break his beliefs and join the enemy.President Franklin D Roosevelt. It is said of him Why tell the truth when a lie will do much better. It is he who rob americans of their gold while promising our money would not become Fiat.The Local Kommieczars of California.One thing about the politicians there. They don't fool around. Sure we'll quote "Deregulate" energy. As someone who lives in Oregon and paying 3 or 4 times in energy while they get to pass "emergency relief laws" (Hey did I have a chance to thank Clinton for that as well?)and thus pass their debt to others, I am very unhappy. So are California Neighbor in Nevada, Washington, Arizona and whoever power they can grabbed that ot nailed down. I didn't even have a chance to vote for them, so I can't even show my displeasure at the pollsPeter Munick of Barricks or GoldSell of Anglogold. I don't know if you want to consider them politicians but they are certainly sharing the bed with Central Bankers, Gold Shorts and other who are hurting the market. I don't know if you want to accept as the lowest bid the lies they told their shareholders, since you already received that without even asking. Oh well, that is why you want to make what they said public. If you want some lying sack of worthlessness, I doubt you can go lower then a politician's promise Farfel (02/23/01; 16:15:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 48827) The Goldsell Auction continues.... Oh, yes, also a SPECIAL SPECIAL thanks to Mr. FLIERDUDE who made the following offer with respect to the Goldsell Dutch Auction:Date: Fri Feb 23 2001 01:25Flierdude (To add some punch to farfels' punch, I will give the winning) ID#195163:essay writer 1 tube of silver eagles, to be mailed out by Norwester at Rare Coin Gallery in Seattle....Thanks F* Farfel (02/23/01; 16:06:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 48826) The Goldsell Auction continues.... First a special thanks to Shifty who conveyed the Goldsell Auction proposal to KITCO. Hopefully somebody will also publish it at GOLD-EAGLE too.Although many gold investors experienced an "encouraging" day in the gold market today, I would warn them NOT to settle for a one day token gain afforded them by the bullion banks, overhedged gold producers, and other anti-gold conspirators.Unfortunately, for far too long, gold investors have had their financial asses handed to them, they have become a beaten down, often hopeless group of investors, and so they become euphoric when a few pennies of "encouragement" are tossed their way (like today) from the piggish bullion banks, overhedged gold producers, etc.HOWEVER I urge you, do NOT settle for mere crumbs thrown your way from the Wall Street gluttons and gold producer deceivers who conspired these past several years to destroy your financial worth.Get mad, get even.The Goldsell dutch auction continues, and so far some great super low bids have been made, from derivatives to zinc pennies to petco stock certificates. I have never been offered so much worthless crap in my life by a group of esteemed goldbugs for the chance/misfortune of reading the equally worthless crap written by Mr. Goldsell.Although this auction has its vociferous detractors (like Mr. Disney, KITCO's renowned resident Anglogold shill, Anglogold apologist, and slavish Anglogold concubine ), nevertheless, the response has been very satisfying so far.So Let the auction continue...the bids are still FAR TOO HIGH!ThanksF*-----------------------I have been in recent correspondence with Mr. Goldsell of Anglogold and the exchange has been "heated" and blunt to say the least.Attached to Mr. Goldsell's Emails have been "confidentiality warnings" in which action is threatened for exposure of the contents.Well, fuck him, and fuck his confidentiality warnings. Nobody warned me or other gold investors about the nefarious gold carry trade BEFORE we invested in gold.Nobody warned me or other gold investors about the various gold producers who aligned themselves with the bullion banks to drive the gold price into the toilet and their own share prices BEFORE we invested in their companies.So to hell with his warnings, the letters are headed for the public domain.THUS, the Goldsell Dutch Auction begins, I will publish the Emails on the internet, upon receiving the LOWEST POSSIBLE BID for the correspondence. The auction opens now and will close by midnight, Wednesday night, the last day of February 2001. NO bids will be accepted after that date.What do I mean by LOWEST POSSIBLE BID?I mean that I am creating a public auction whereby any interested participant from either USAGOLD, KITCO, or GOLD-EAGLE may compete with other posters to provide (as a form of "payment") the BEST essay describing in no uncertain terms the rotten treatment they have received at the hands of the gold industry. The essay should contain explicit references to how the bullion banks or the gold producers or any other person/entity associated with the gold industry harmed the gold investor in question.By the closing date of the auction, I will announce the winner of the LOWEST POSSIBLE BID, reproduce that poster's work, then climax the entire matter with the publication of the Goldsell correspondence.As I do not have posting rights at either KITCO or GOLD-EAGLE, I would appreciate the conveyance of this auction info to those sites by any interested posters.Let the auction begin now.ThanksF* Tree in the Forest (02/23/01; 16:05:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 48825) Beesting Interesting ideas. It's certainly not unusual for politicians to create excuses and distractions of various types to fool the sheeple. Our illustrious ex-president was certainly not averse to doing this and his bombings etc. were obvious distractions from his political problems (obvious as all hell!). Dubya is probably not going to be any better. His father certainly wasn't and he created the Gulf War by sending wrong signals to Hussein just as FDR got us into WWII by cutting off oil to Japan. Do you really believe that a fight between 2 politicos was the cause of the Lira losing 40% of its value or was the devaluation about to happen and the fight became an excuse for the sheeple as to why? I'll leave it for you to decide. R Powell (02/23/01; 15:45:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 48824) Three again and then some HUI Gold Index was up 6.2% today according to a G-E poster. Gold lease rates were not only up again but are in backwardation (thanks Galearis 48797 and Rhody 48813). And the Ponzi number will set a new record low. That's a hat trick again but, if you order right now, we'll throw in a lower dollar index and a higher POG at no additional charge. The HUI is an index of gold producers without Phelps- Dodge (copper producer). The backwardation of monthly lease rates probably indicates tight supplies (see Galearis and Rhody's posts) The Ponz, haaaay. If the Euro currency is distributed soon, before its due date of Jan. 2002, will the coins be appearing also. Weren't some of these rumored to be gold coins? For those who read at G-E, Mountaingold says that he has an article published this month in a monthly technical analysis magazine. I'm not sure but "Stocks and Commodities" might be the one. Many of the old timers at the G-E forum have recently reappeared. This is probably a good omen. Will we see some old faces here too. It would surely make the old Wiz happy. Any news of the WGC's big news??? Rich beesting (02/23/01; 14:53:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 48823) Anybody Else Speculating About This? http://quote.yahoo.com/m2 1. George Bush Sr.(former President) & Colin Powell(General U.S.A.) fight a war with Iraq.2. George Bush Jr. gets elected President of U.S.A. and appoints Colin Powell Sec. of Defense.3. U.S.& English planes bomb Iraq.4. Turkey which shares a northern border with Iraq, money's valuation plummets.(Lira)http://quote.yahoo.com/m5?a=1&s=USD&t=TRL5. More U.S. jets take off from Turkey to bomb Iraq.6. 02/23/2001 While every stockmarket in Europe loses value for the day Turkey's goes up in value.(see URL at top of post.)6a. ***Speculation has it that any company of value listed on the Turkish Exchange is being bought out by people who have Gold or Currency many times more valuable than Turkish Lira.(Any history buffs out there remember this scenario happening before in history??)7. Turkey is so far in debt they try to work out some sort of deal with IMF/U.S./England.7a. Speculation has it Turkey will be lent huge sums of international money,,,,,if they start border skirmishes with Iraq.7b. Iraq and Turkey declare war on each other.8. U.S./U.N./and many others back Turkey in war with Iraq.9. Turkey is lent a fortune to fight war.10. Turkey wins war with Iraq!11. Turkey pays off war debts with oil revenue from the newly conquered former Iraq.""Now, How Could All of This Been Prevented?????""Answer:If Turkey had been using some form of Gold as money they're currency "Rate of Exchange" would never have become ""Devalued"" at such an absurd rate of exchange,as Gold used as International money has "Never" devalued the way Fiat money always has and always will!Thanks for Reading....beesting. JCTex (02/23/01; 14:52:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 48822) Goldentrill (02/23/01; 13:34:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 48817) Those were not very good times. Interest rates were 20+% if you could get the money. Paying off debt at those rates was a real s-o-b!!! The economy went to hell, and gold went from $820 [January, 1979] to $1,094 in December. The next month topped out at $1,437.Stagflation was the term for it. My best bet is that that is what we will see this time. ET (02/23/01; 14:52:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 48821) Taylor Smith Purchase a copy of the film "Kelly's Heroes". It's about a gold heist during the war. A great film sure to bring a smile to your face! slingshot (02/23/01; 14:41:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 48820) Gold for Thought. I called three hometown PM dealers just to get information on 1 oz eagles. One was out with 7-10 day order. The other two had some but they were 2001 dates and cost more. Thinking this over for a minute or two, a couple of questions came to mind. Has all the eagles prior to 2001 been purchased? How long since they recieved them? This could indicate whether the public is still buying gold or has backed off due to price increase. Are they waiting for it to go to $200. before buying again. Assuming all the eagles prior to 2001 have been purchased, would that mean that small buys of Gold has put a dent in the Gold Market?I am going to wait a few days and call back. Just something to think about. Slingshot AUgustUS (02/23/01; 14:21:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 48819) The Goldsell Auction begins NOW! Going Once, Going Twice ..... just keep it going ! How low can we go ? Since we are dealing with gold - and the drubbing gold investors have endured over the years - my BID for your correspondence is a PERSONALISED Derivative Contract as FULL and FINAL settlement. All apparent references to an entirely farcical valuation SYSTEM are intentional and serve to illustrate how gold investors and other market participants have been - and continue to be - creamed.BID PROPOSALYour choice of payment is RESTRICTED to a Derivative Contract ONLY - but may take ANY form you like. It may be a currency derivative, a stock derivative, a derivative contract on gold - or a derivative contract indicating your "holdings" in any pyramid game OR ponzi scheme of your choice. We could even create a derivative contract giving you "Title" to unmined gold - to fresh air - to vague promises - to false illusions - OR ....... to mining officials efforts to restore shareholder wealth (our current best seller !). The choice is yours.My derivative contract's value is not determined by Government decree giving it any value whatsoever. It is not subject to valuation changes by a Government, Corporation or individual suddenly deciding not to "defend" it (since we can create the price - and change the price - OURSELVES !). It's value will NOT be determined by the physical demand/supply fundamentals of ANY commodity, product or service - since you may decide entirely how many contracts you would like, on what you would like it, and at what value (sorry price) you would like it. You will also have the option of ensuring it has no REAL delivery obligation requirements. Should you wish to have the derivative contract create the illusion of a physical delivery obligation, a commitment to management efficiency and best practise, a dedication to creating shareholder wealth etc ..(while still ensuring its worthlessness) - NOT TO WORRY !!! We can ensure it's minimal value is maintained by simply including Force Majeure and other "non-performance" clauses while actively ensuring "protective" practices such as the shorting of one's own product is strictly adhered to.You may now also (at a VERY SPECIAL PRICE) - choose between paper and electronic settlement. My recommendation to you given we now have an invincible "NEW ECONOMY" - is most DEFINITELY - the EEEEE-lec-tronic settlement option !!!!The "fair price" calculation of your PERSONALISED Derivative Contract simply becomes your "Personalised Derivative Contract" (in whatever form you choose) divided by a number between one and infinity. If you only want 1 contract - your PERSONALISED Derivative Contract will be worth 1. One what you may ask ! Well, since you are restricted to a derivative contract as full and final settlement - your payment would simply be worth …… 1 PERSONALISED Derivative contract !!!! It is that simple. 1 derivative contract is worth 1 derivative cotract !If you would prefer to receive an infinite number of personalised derivative contracts - each contract simply becomes a WORTHLESS personalised derivative contract.i.e. 1 divided by infinity = +- zero.As such, my FINAL Bid to you iS this : A PERSONALISED Derivative contract - or a worthless PERSONALISED Derivative contract (NOW available in electronic form). The choice is yours' my friend ! RossL (02/23/01; 14:12:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 48818) Hill Billy Mitchell msg#: 48809 http://www.usagold.com/goldenchalkboard/DowJones.gif I assume you were talking about the chart that Randy referenced in msg 48807 and not 48808, because I couldn't find a chart in the link from 48808.I thought the chart was interesting because we usually see a chart of the dow plotted so that it proceeds up at roughly a 30 degree angle. The chartists either stretch the date axis or use a log scale on the Y axis. I assume this is usually done to imply that it will continue on at that angle forever.If we adjust the data to inflation-adjusted numbers, will the graph still be parabolic? If the increase in the dow is only because of an exponential increase in paper money, then the new chart would result in a straight line, reflecting a slow and steady real growth.I'm guessing that if the creation of all paper assets (including paper money, paper stocks, and paper gold) is an exponential function and since our sturdy physical reference is not, then the chart will still show a parabola. Just not as steep. Is that what you're thinking, or am I way off in right field again?I gotta go, I will have the Ponzi updated in a few hours. Goldentrill (02/23/01; 13:34:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 48817) Response to Author re: 1979 Gold Move Taylor Smith (02/23/01; 12:37:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 48810)AUTHOR SEEKS HELPI need information on the price of gold in 1944 and 1979 (the year in which the novel takes place). I've noted that the price of gold took a big jump around 1979. Can anyone tell me why? My dad was investing in golds during that time and he told me we had double digit inflation, Jimmy Carter was in the White House and was viewed as a weak President, and there was a lot of instability in the World, in fact Carter could not get our hostages out of the Mid East..(Regan came in and took care of that right after he came into office) When Gold hit 800 per ounce interest rates were at 18%...I remember that....inflation and war..that was the combo and energy problems....Frankly, the scenario was not far off from what we appear to be entering right now, lots of instablity, high inflation and a Mid East crisis brewing..oh yes, there were big problems at the gas pumps too..terrible problems with energy......sound familiar? History does repeat itself it seems...GO GOLDS which ARE DOING GREAT TODAY!Goldentrill Horatio (02/23/01; 13:27:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 48816) Dayton Mining Royal Precious Metals filed notice of purchase, form was filed 2/14/01. Rhody (02/23/01; 13:19:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 48815) LEASE RATES Gold lease rates are in full backwardation today indicatingsevere constriction in the liquidity pipe, but thisis backwardation at still low overall lease rates.This in itself is a contradiction. Backwardation meansa liquidity problem but low lease rates indicates there'sgold to borrow at cheap rates. What's wrong with thispicture? This is a little like your friendly bullionbank willing to loan you cheap matches to go smoke in the powder shed. All kidding aside, the lease rate spike has been differentthis time. The build up to the spike was very gradual,and mostly from the one year terms, rather than the one month. Put simply, the one year (hedge) terms came downto meet the one month (speculative) terms. The speculatorsfinally seemed to sense the tightening and that has setoff the spike in one month rates, which finally closedthe pipe. What I think has been happening is the minesARE FINALLY CLOSING OUT THEIR HEDGES, OR RESISTING ADDITIONAL HEDGES, AND THAT HAS SHOWN UP IN A GENTLESUBSIDENCE IN ONE YEAR RATES. Today, all terms spiked,but one month terms most of all. Now that is a normalpattern, as desperation leasing dumped gold on the spot market in an attempt to quell a visible spike in spot pog. Can't have that. Thrashing around in the watermight attract the attention of a speculative shark. I have been watching this new pattern evolve overthe past few months, and resisted the temptation to postmy conclusions on the "other forum". I got fed up withthe paper pushers and cheap shot artists. Can you believe it? There are guys over there whobuy gold with a view to converting it back into US dollars!They watch the spot price with a hope that gold will goup, and they can sell at a profit. They just don't getit. When gold goes UP, its US dollars going DOWN. Theywant to dump an appreciating wealth vehicle and load upon one that shrinking! DUMB. Rhody (02/23/01; 13:17:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 48814) LEASE RATES Gold lease rates are in full backwardation today indicatingsevere constriction in the liquidity pipe, but thisis backwardation at still low overall lease rates.This in itself is a contradiction. Backwardation meansa liquidity problem but low lease rates indicates there'sgold to borrow at cheap rates. What's wrong with thispicture? This is a little like your friendly bullionbank willing to loan you cheap matches to go smoke in the powder shed. All kidding aside, the lease rate spike has been differentthis time. The build up to the spike was very gradual,and mostly from the one year terms, rather than the one month. Put simply, the one year (hedge) terms came downto meet the one month (speculative) terms. The speculatorsfinally seemed to sense the tightening and that has setoff the spike in one month rates, which finally closedthe pipe. What I think has been happening is the minesARE FINALLY CLOSING OUT THEIR HEDGES, OR RESISTING ADDITIONAL HEDGES, AND THAT HAS SHOWN UP IN A GENTLESUBSIDENCE IN ONE YEAR RATES. Today, all terms spiked,but one month terms most of all. Now that is a normalpattern, as desperation leasing dumped gold on the spot market in an attempt to quell a visible spike in spot pog. Can't have that. Thrashing around in the watermight attract the attention of a speculative shark. I have been watching this new pattern evolve overthe past few months, and resisted the temptation to postmy conclusions on the "other forum". I got fed up withthe paper pushers and cheap shot artists. Can you believe it? There are guys over there whobuy gold with a view to converting it back into US dollars!They watch the spot price with a hope that gold will goup, and they can sell at a profit. They just don't getit. When gold goes UP, its US dollars going DOWN. Theywant to dump an appreciating wealth vehicle and load upon one that shrinking! DUMB. Rhody (02/23/01; 13:16:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 48813) LEASE RATES Gold lease rates are in full backwardation today indicatingsevere constriction in the liquidity pipe, but thisis backwardation at still low overall lease rates.This in itself is a contradiction. Backwardation meansa liquidity problem but low lease rates indicates there'sgold to borrow at cheap rates. What's wrong with thispicture? This is a little like your friendly bullionbank willing to loan you cheap matches to go smoke in the powder shed. All kidding aside, the lease rate spike has been differentthis time. The build up to the spike was very gradual,and mostly from the one year terms, rather than the one month. Put simply, the one year (hedge) terms came downto meet the one month (speculative) terms. The speculatorsfinally seemed to sense the tightening and that has setoff the spike in one month rates, which finally closedthe pipe. What I think has been happening is the minesARE FINALLY CLOSING OUT THEIR HEDGES, OR RESISTING ADDITIONAL HEDGES, AND THAT HAS SHOWN UP IN A GENTLESUBSIDENCE IN ONE YEAR RATES. Today, all terms spiked,but one month terms most of all. Now that is a normalpattern, as desperation leasing dumped gold on the spot market in an attempt to quell a visible spike in spot pog. Can't have that. Thrashing around in the watermight attract the attention of a speculative shark. I have been watching this new pattern evolve overthe past few months, and resisted the temptation to postmy conclusions on the "other forum". I got fed up withthe paper pushers and cheap shot artists. Can you believe it? There are guys over there whobuy gold with a view to converting it back into US dollars!They watch the spot price with a hope that gold will goup, and they can sell at a profit. They just don't getit. When gold goes UP, its US dollars going DOWN. Theywant to dump an appreciating wealth vehicle and load upon one that shrinking! DUMB. SHIFTY (02/23/01; 12:56:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 48812) Bottom$ http://www.amex.com/quote.dll?page=multi&mode=stock&symbol=DAY Looks like it went up today.$hifty Bottom$ (02/23/01; 12:39:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 48811) Dayton Mining? Can anyone tell me where I can find some information on Dayton Mining (DAY on the AMEX)? I have held some shares all the way down to 15 cents. Today it is up to 29 cents. I have tried to find some financial data on recent news of the company but am finding none. Any suggestions from this GOLDEN group? TIA!! Taylor Smith (02/23/01; 12:37:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 48810) AUTHOR SEEKS HELP http://www.TaylorSmith.org I'm working on a new novel where part of the plot revolves around a heist of gold bullion during WWII. In order to do this plausibly, I need information on the price of gold in 1944 and 1979 (the year in which the novel takes place). I've noted that the price of gold took a big jump around 1979. Can anyone tell me why? Also, never having seen gold bullion, I'd like some sense of its size and weight. Any gold history buffs and/or thriller readers who'd be willing to help me out on this, please contact me directly at TaylrSmith@aol.com (NOTE: no "o" in my email address) Please write "GOLD INFO" in the subject line, as I do get a lot of junk mail from strangers and I'd hate to delete good advice.By the way, I do publicly acknowledge research sources(except those who don't wish to see their name in print!) and send a free copy of the published novel. MANY THANKS! Taylor Smith Hill Billy Mitchell (2/23/2001; 12:30:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 48809) RossL and TownCrier @ #: 48808 http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010223/nat017600.html Sir RossI'm sure that you have seen the above chart per link provided by Sir Randy.I would be interested in preparing tables to reproduce that particular chart with inflation adjusted #'s If you would be willing to post the graph in the HBM Chart area. What say you?Respectfully,HBM Randy (@ The Tower) (2/23/2001; 12:21:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 48808) Fed is running in two directions at once http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/010223/nat017600.html With the federal funds market trading slightly soft at 5-7/16th percent, the Federal Reserve's System Account Manager temporarily drained $1.5 billion from banking reserves via over-the-weekend matched sale-purchase agreements in today's open market operations.And yet strangely, the Fed then later announced that it added $2.111 billion in permanent reserves through the outright purchase of U.S. Treasury bills. Is this Treasury market something that needed a special dose of CB liquidity...above and beyond the sheeple's "flight to safety" in government paper in light of the wavering stock market? Weird. Randy (@ The Tower) (2/23/2001; 11:55:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 48807) For those who missed this chart yesterday.... http://www.usagold.com/goldenchalkboard/DowJones.gif With the Dow at 10,300 there is PLENTY of room for it to fall...unless the dollar that "measures" it gets a LOT smaller. SHIFTY (2/23/2001; 11:46:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 48806) Speaking of toilets look where the dollar is going.!!!!! http://www.crbindex.com/ Dollar Index (NYBOT) Mar01 Future 112.17 -1.14 $hifty SHIFTY (2/23/2001; 11:40:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 48805) Peter Asher http://singapore.cnet.com/internet/dispatches/japan/000711/ss01.html The notorious KDD (Kokusai Denshin-Denwa Kosha), which had a monopoly of internationals calls, made such unmentionable profits that its brass was rumored to have outrageous entitlements; they urinated into 24K-gold toilet bowls and used gold leaves as toilet paper. ---------------------------------------------------------Peter I think they will be using Comex brand soon! Peter Asher (2/23/2001; 11:30:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 48804) ian451 I checked out the specs on that golden restroom.Seems he forgot the obvious source for the necessary rolls of paper: Comex! mhchuck (2/23/2001; 11:25:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 48803) Does Kelvin Williams know what an "overhang" IS? Approximately four billion ounces of gold has been mined in human history. About three billion ounces resides with the people of the world. The other billion ounces can be found in the vaults of central banks. (Wonder how they got so much?) Compare this with the number of shares outstanding in just the following six companies.World Com…… 3 billion sharesIntel……..7 billion sharesCisco…..7 billion sharesMicrosoft…..5 billion sharesPfizer……6 billion sharesGE……10 (yes, TEN) billion sharesTalk about an "overhang!"mhchuck Mr Gresham (2/23/2001; 10:55:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 48802) Lease rates http://www.kitco.com/market/LFrate.html Here I be whining about not getting some of the juicy puts action bet in time over at the equities meltdown. But in the back of my mind, I'm suspecting that this is all heaped in together (Greenspan & payments-system-wise) to go down together. Same players, same games, all across the financial boards. I don't really know all the mechanics linking these various markets, and how collectable the paper ones will be, so I breathe easier having it all safely IN HAND! ian451 (2/23/2001; 10:21:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 48801) Hong Kong jewler builds 24k gold toilet. $138 to actually use it. please, no jokes about sitting on one's wealth. heh, heh...http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Hong-Kong-Gold-Toilet.html WW Oracle (2/23/2001; 10:01:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 48800) Turkey??? A thought occurs -- could the spike in lease rates have something to do with the Turkish devaluation? Just think of all those foreign and domestic banks lending metal on record demand at the Istanbul Gold Exchange: when Turkey devalued, the lira-denominated collateral of their borrowers dropped.If you were lending the gold, wouldn't you call in your loan? Or if you couldn't do that, be more leery of lending out your gold in the first place? WW Oracle (2/23/2001; 9:46:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 48799) Wow! Just look at those lease rates jump up and down! How many times can they change in one day? schippi (2/23/2001; 9:12:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 48798) 10 day XAU chart http://www.SelectSectors.com/xau10day.gif XAU moving Up! Galearis (2/23/2001; 8:53:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 48797) @ R. Powell re lease rates... posted late last night for RHODY but worth a redo today I seem to be a USAGOLD postman! (smile)Perhaps A.G could be convinced to drop interest rates a little more and we'll see a microscopic pipe for the carry trade. This seems to be entrenched in the relms academic now (perhaps) anyway - with today's news(?)At any rate....snip**************splatYup, I just saw this [lease rate chart] when I got home. There is now only .018% spread between one month and one year rates. Murph calls this an aberration, but it is called backwardation, and it has happened before, most notably just before the WA. It's constriction in the pipe, and it has been much worse than this. What is interesting this time is the slow build up, and the easing of one year leases down to just above one month rates. It's the drying up of one year rates as mines close hedges that marks the difference here. I tried to post this stuff on USAGOLD yesterday, but made a typo in my password, and then lost the post I took 15 minutes to type up. [Censored] I notice that all the action was in the lease rates today, and spot moved little at all. Typical. Paper still covers rocks. I wonder who is getting out the scissors. unsnip**********[no pun intended][smile]I told Rhody to use a word processor and the magic of cut and paste from now on. Perhaps he will favour me by using this device too. (big smile)Additional for today: lease rates are up (again) considerably in response to the rumour that the BOE has not leased into the market the last few days. One gets the impression that they may have sent someone down to the vaults to do a wee inventory in front of the next BOE auction. Perhaps they feel that they may be a little short for entry qualification supplies to the EEC. They surely know that all this leased gold is not coming back(?)Just a thought...The gold chart is looking agitated in an upward direction in London, and with the early down turn in the other markets the manipulation crowd are going to earn their fiat today keeping things underhand (smile)!And best regards,G. mhchuck (2/23/2001; 8:16:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 48796) The Goldsell Auction Begins Now! Hey ET, thanks for your prior supportive remarks. I'm glad we're on the same team.Now to the Goldsell auction. I bid the following. As a former long-term shareholder of Barrick Gold, I liquidated my position eighteen months ago. Prior to doing this, I had e-mailed Barrick twice only to receive NO RESPONSE. Then I sent a third e-mail to Barrick.To Barrick Gold,I ask you, what shareholder would assent to his/her company selling gold forward thereby depressing its current and future price? The extent of this madness and absurdity can be seen in that if the price of gold rises significantly, many companies will fail. It's ludicrous to think that if the price of the object a company produces rises too high, the company will fail. For a long time I believed Barrick's propaganda that hedging was an ingenious tactic while not realizing that you are just a "hedge fund" masquerading as a gold company. It became apparent to me that the officers of Barrick were more interested in their salaries rather than the interests of the company's owners, the shareholders. Instead of combating the ongoing price manipulation of gold by publicly denouncing it, and possibly withholding "cheap" gold from the market, Barrick promised to provide millions of ounces to the manipulators at a cheap price...dumping gold into the market. Who would knowingly buy into a company that literally dumps on its shareholders?Barrick, as a LEADER in the industry has come under fire. Is it any wonder? Shareholders of Gold companies have been ceaselessly maligned in the media along with the metal itself, while suffering tremendous financial loss. It is the obligation of the respective companies to defend their shareholders and their product, but nary a word was released by gold producers in defense of either. Instead, industry leader Barrick SELLS gold and their shareholders SHORT. (End). I'm still waiting for a response from Barrick. AngloGold and Bobby Goldsell are no better than Barrick. An industry leader that should be defending the attack on gold and its shareholders. It's Anglo's duty and obligation to WITHHOLD gold from the market, AND to decrease production. As a shareholder I would applaud AngloGold for taking a stand against the manipulation. If you went BANKRUPT in defiance of it, I would commend your actions. But instead, you provide the manipulators with millions of ounces to perpetuate this fraud. Kelvin "Pinocchio" Williams' statement that "there is an overhang in the market," was a reckless lie. The only "overhang" he probably sees, is the precipice (As in plank) that was placed in front of him, that he would have walked, had he not told this lie. So how does AngloGold address this overhang? They flood the market with "cheap" forward sold gold. Peter Skunk, Randall Elephant, Bobby Goldsell and "Pinocchio" Williams. Four major reasons why gold remains in jail, and four reasons why jails were built. mhchuck FredBear (2/23/2001; 7:27:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 48795) Simply Me (02/23/01; 02:07:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 48788) Euro notes Simply Me, I live in Europe and my banker told me a couple of months ago that they expect to have the notes by October. Hope it happens. Stocks, Lies, and Ticker Tape (2/23/2001; 6:16:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 48794) The Goldsell Auction begins,...NOW! The bids have been light so I hope I can lowball even further. I bid one SLATT. The SLATT is strictly a electronic currency. The SLATT has shed the barbaric mediums of wampum, paper and metal. It is traded freely worldwide and accepted everywhere. The SLATT is one pixel on your computer screen. Of course the SLATT is highly sensitive to power outages, hence the black market rate of 2 pixels/SLATT in Kalifornia. Unencumbered by convention, your accounts are duly credited with what you see before your eyes! Rest assured that each SLATT is backed by the full faith and credit of the Republic of SLATT. Saxulum^ (2/23/2001; 5:50:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 48793) The Goldsell Auction Begins NOW! Farfel,I'm offering an original Dutch TULIP BULB, directly shipped from Amsterdam (F.O.B. off course)You may choose any color, as long as it's black…:-)You'll have the irrevocable guarantee from the Dutch CB that it will BLOOM this spring!Well, what the heck, you can even eat the thing, as many Dutch survived the last winter of WW2 doing that.If that isn't a real storage of wealth, than what is….?NOTE: My reluctance to post here is mainly due to my personal "division of labor",which allowes to only read bits and pieces of the many marvellous posts here.So I appologize for not being able to respond much, let alone getting involved in discussions at this time.PS. Currently reading "Money & Freedom" by Hans Sennholz (1985). Amazingly timely! If time allowes I'll post a few excerpts next week. ORO (2/23/2001; 4:19:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 48792) Goldsun - oil opp This is a purely market phenom, outside the fact that OPEC governments have cartelized it. There is nothing untoward, conspired or secret about this. Goldsun (02/23/01; 03:25:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 48791) Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Pleasant Boxing Day etc Having been deprived of the Forum for some time, returning to find familiar faces in fine form fills me with warm feelings for our fascinating world. Goldsun (02/23/01; 03:11:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 48790) ORO - Backwardation Into The Future? Could the bounteous backwardation arbitrage opportunity available only to those now holding oil, as discussed in your 48753, be viewed as a way to raise the price paid to oil producers without generating public reaction? Would this opportunity be available to Iraq? Knallgold (02/23/01; 02:51:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 48789) Irak bombs Is Saddam being bombed because he too euros for oil instead of Dollars?Just a thought... Simply Me (02/23/01; 02:07:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 48788) The Euro Goes Live! Hi All, Just popped in to relay interesting news I just received in email.<snip>MAJOR GERMAN BANK RELEASES THE WORLDS 1st 2002 EURO CURRENCY BANK NOTES IN SPECIMEN FORMAT. THIS IS AHEAD OF THE SCHEDULED RELEASE OF THE EURO IN JAN, 2002.(NEW YORK/LONDON NEWSWIRE), Feb 21st, 2001. Please be advised that the new 2002 Euro notes in specimenformat have been released. The series consists of 7 notes. A 500, 200, 100, 50, 20, 10 and 5Euro. Arguably the worlds most beautiful currency as is often debated by world currency experts. Use the link provided below to go to euro currency site.<unsnip>The link didn't work, but that's not unusual for an email link.Can anyone verify? It looks like the Euro is about to become very real, and maybe, ahead of schedule.simply Zenidea (02/23/01; 01:52:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 48787) The Cafe Just in !!!Quotes from the highly unusual letter that the WorldGold Council sent its members today:"According to usually reliable market sources, the Bank of England has not been lending gold over the past few days. This is unprecedented as its short-term lending is considered a vital tool in the smooth running of the London market. The Bank's explanation for this ( confidentially ) is that many client centralbanks had lent out for longer periods than normal around the WAG period, and that as the loans matured they were not being renewed, creating a temporary tightness in liquidity. The market is regarding this explanation with some suspicion, however, suspecting that more may be involved."It has indeed been suggested that another joint central bank move on gold lending may be imminent, cutting the amount of gold available for lending."We have no firm evidence for such a move. However, if this were to happen, then lease rates would soar; non-WAG countries have increased their lending substantially in recent months and it is unlikely that they could fill any liquidity gap produced. In these circumstances, a price spike could easily develop; shorts would be quick to cover while other borrowers would be forced to buy as the rolling over of existing loans became more difficult to achieve." END.Can you smell the smoke?Zenidea .... smoked fish ! SteveH (02/23/01; 01:50:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 48786) From a friend Source undisclosed:Gold jewelry demand for the fourth quarter of 2000 totaled 793 tons,12% higher than in the prior year and 5% higher than the record levelachieved in 1999, reported the World Gold Council (WGC). Annual goldjewelry demand was also at a record 2,902 tons, 4% more than therecord level set in the third quarter of 1999.Demand for gold as an investment dropped 21% in 2000 to 379.1 tons.The decline was mostly due to a sharp fall in sales of new coins inthe United States. U.S. coin sales were exceptionally high last yeardue to Y2K concerns. However, by the fourth quarter of 2000, therewere signs that investment gold was shaking off the effects of thefallout, with demand rising 4%, reaching 101.7 tons.Total gold demand in the fourth quarter of 2000 reached 894 tons, 11%above last year's level. This set a new quarterly record for theworld's 27 major markets, topping the previous record set in the thirdquarter of 1999 by 2%. Gold demand for the year was 3,281 tons.According to the WGC, demand reached new records in: India - up 2%;Turkey - up 49%; and the Gulf States - up 9%. Strong performances werealso achieved by Saudi Arabia - up 11%; Mexico - up 15%; and Vietnam -up 13%. Jewelry demand in the United States rose for the tenthsuccessive year, reaching 379.0 tons.*** Isn't 3,281 tons far greater than annual production? SHIFTY (02/23/01; 01:50:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 48785) Gandalf the White Did you ever find that photo!Would love to see it.$hifty Gandalf the White (02/23/01; 01:35:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 48784) Farfel (02/22/01; 22:43:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 48774) The Goldsell Auction Begins NOW !----Hail SIR Farfel The Hobbits believe that YOU have given us the "BEST essay describing in no uncertain terms the rotten treatment they have received at the hands of the gold industry. The essay should contain explicit references to how the bullion banks or the gold producers or any other person/entity associated with the gold industry harmed the gold investor in question."==We have read your lectures at Universities, Letters to Gold Mining Company CEO's, wept with many others as the paper gold has driven you and many others to the edge of bankruptcy and having to move to new locations, laughed at your "stick-too-iveness" jokes about true goldhearts bearing the rath of the "experts" spinning false tails and not accepting the "sell-their-book" stories told to the sheeple. Sometimes, your choice of words within the English language demonstrates your level of bloodpressure, but the thought is loud and clear ! NO ONE can get a point across as well as you ! You are one that has the prestige, education, and GUTS to discuss these items with the Giants, and therefore know that the TRUTH will surface sometime. Let it be now !! == The Hobbits bid -- ONE Turkish Lira ( and you know how much that is worth !!)<;-) L working-kirk (02/23/01; 01:33:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 48783) The Goldsell Auction Begins NOW! I lower my bid to one grain of copper. Since the weight of gold and silver and the dollars is suppose to be so many grains I think 415 grains of silver for one dollar I figure if there are grains of gold and silver there must be grains of copper the cheapest metal than can be used for payment.Nobody is going to bottom my my bid without a fight. Even the cheap plated zinc penny must have more than a grain of copper.Now for my gold-losing essay:On Monday, everybody was saying how now is the time to buy gold so you could say to your grandchildren how you managed to buy at the very bottom of the coming gold boom. You might have noticed Monday, I wasn't bragging. I lost my bragging rights. Instead of buying, I had to sell one of my gold one ounce eagle. I got $254. That is nothing to brag about and so I was avoid this forum like the plague because I knew there would be people saying: How much more gold they were buying hand over fist at these bargain prices. I know it isn't much but bragging rights are important to some people. When the truth final comes out about the gold cabal and the lawsuits against them, you can bet I will be one of them. My lawsuit will be for emotional distress. Imagine the pain I suffered having to sell at the very bottom of gold. I promise they WILL pay! working-kirk (02/23/01; 01:07:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 48782) The Goldsell Auction Begins NOW! Farfel (02/22/01; 22:43:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 48774)By the way, is your auction opened to foreign currency, and I don't mean to sound like I am not serious but it is easier to go much lower than my bid of 1 mil if you are opened to the following:like the Russian Rubble (I mean Ruble)The Turkish LiraHistorical CurrencyThe 1922 German MarkThe Confederate DollarThe Continental The French assignantStocks & Bonds and other (formerly) valuablesPetco.comBenjamin Franklin Saving and LoanMarx Toy CompanyTucker Car CompanyThe Nutra Fur trading companyJohn Law Mississippi Investment CompanyA venture which the location is protected and the purpose to be unreveal.If you are willing to take bid in some of the above there is no telling how low the bidding can go.> Farfel (02/22/01; 22:43:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 48774)> The Goldsell Auction Begins NOW!> I have been in recent correspondence with Mr. Goldsell of > Anglogold and the exchange has been "heated" and blunt to> say the least.Attached to Mr. Goldsell's Emails have been "confidentiality warnings" in which action is threatened for exposure ofthe contents.Well, fuck him, and fuck his confidentiality warnings. Nobody warned me or other gold investors about the nefarious gold carry trade BEFORE we invested in gold.Nobody warned me or other gold investors about the various gold producers who aligned themselves with the bullionbanks to drive the gold price into the toilet and their own share prices BEFORE we invested in their companies.So to hell with his warnings, the letters are headed for the public domain.THUS, the Goldsell Dutch Auction begins, I will publish the Emails on the internet, upon receiving the LOWESTPOSSIBLE BID for the correspondence. The auction opens now and will close by midnight, Wednesday night, the lastday of February 2001. NO bids will be accepted after that date.What do I mean by LOWEST POSSIBLE BID?I mean that I am creating a public auction whereby any interested participant from either USAGOLD, KITCO, orGOLD-EAGLE may compete with other posters to provide (as a form of "payment") the BEST essay describing in nouncertain terms the rotten treatment they have received at the hands of the gold industry. The essay should containexplicit references to how the bullion banks or the gold producers or any other person/entity associated with the goldindustry harmed the gold investor in question.By the closing date of the auction, I will announce the winner of the LOWEST POSSIBLE BID, reproduce thatposter's work, then climax the entire matter with the publication of the Goldsell correspondence.As I do not have posting rights at either KITCO or GOLD-EAGLE, I would appreciate the conveyance of this auctioninfo to those sites by any interested posters.Let the auction begin now.Thanks SHIFTY (02/23/01; 01:03:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 48781) Farfel From kitco Farfel it appears the prize has been increased! I just my have to get busy typing. I will top working-kirk by biding the cheap plated zinc token cent and I hope to get change!Below are tow posts from Kitco$hifty-----------------------------------------------------------Date: Fri Feb 23 2001 01:25Flierdude (To add some punch to farfels' punch, I will give the winning) ID#195163:essay writer 1 tube of silver eagles, to be mailed out by Norwester at Rare Coin Gallery in Seattle....Date: Fri Feb 23 2001 01:20crazytimes (Go farfel!!!!!!!!) ID#351368:Plaster it all over the internet.......Good going my friend. I'm sure I could come up with a "losing" essay myself. My gold losses certainly were a major contributing factor to my resumption of drinking after being 9 years sober. I can take responsibility for my investment decisions as I held on and didn't sell but had no idea of the extent of the nefarious goings on in the gold market. TEX (02/23/01; 00:47:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 48780) Farfel YIKES! Get down........you go boy! working-kirk (02/23/01; 00:43:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 48779) The Goldsell Auction Begins NOW! Farfel (02/22/01; 22:43:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 48774)I bid One MilA mil is 1/10 of a penny the lowest legal currency of the United States. Since I believe the last mil was coined in the 1800's I will pay 1 copper penny (not the cheap plated zinc token) and you can keep the changeEven if there is nothing to the emails, I think a lot of people will be interested in reading and analysising them.If you received the emails on your home computer you are the owner just like you are the owner of a letter mailed to you. You are free to sell, publish, destroy or whatever you see fit the contents. As for confidentiality warnings, From my understanding of the law, they don't not apply for conspiracy or illegal acts. You should be protected under various whistle blower's laws. Even if they aren't doing wrong, you can state your opinion. Or you can go as far as Ted Butler and accuse them of rasicm or some other things and dare them to sue you for libel or nondisclosure in your case.Once you post them, I am sure there are people here who will be happy to share the information with Gold Eagle, Kitco and other gold and bear forums.I want to read it and I doubt anyone can offer a lower price that is coin of the realm. Whether you are open to other types of bids is up to you.Meanwhile, to the good people of USAGOLD,... Would you happen to have in your rare coin collection a "Mil" coinpiece. I only need to buy one Black Blade (02/23/01; 00:37:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 48778) Something Going On! http://www.thebulliondesk.com/ Direct quote form thebulliondesk.com - 22 Feb 20:44Gold lease rates sharply higher, something going on, see leases panel.TheBullionDeskBlack Blade: Another mystified observer? Let's hope something "good" is going on. I nailed down some more physical today. After all, gold is still on sale, but for how long? I may be absent for a few days as I have a new mining-related project in the works and possibly a NG client soon. This could occupy some time. Will try to check in tomorrow night. Cheers! ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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