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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 5/22/2000 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 23:11:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 31056) Lemetropole cafe http://www.lemetropolecafe.com/ Announcement!! The changeover from the old Cafe to the new Cafe can occur at any time! Sorry again! This is why I don't post much. SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 23:10:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 31055) Lemetropole cafe http://wwwlemetropolecafe.com/ Announcement!! The changeover from the old Cafe to the new Cafe can occur at any time! Sorry again! This is why I don't post much. SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 23:08:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 31054) Lemetropole cafe http://wwwlemetropolecafe.com Announcement!! The changeover from the old Cafe to the new Cafe can occur at any time! SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 22:51:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 31053) Cavan Man You said " Those market averages sure came back today." I was having fits today as the steering column in my wife's Ford truck went out sunday morning ,and my well pump went last night! I was not able to watch much market action today, but I had seen that the Nasdaq and Dow were both down about 200 points at one point.I thought the ponzi was going to be way down tonight. I was suprised to see how far back the PPT was able to manipulate the market back up. After I posted the ponzi, I had to pick up my wife at her office. I read the fourm (backwords) from the top down and saw your post when I got down to the ponzi. I was not sure if your post was directed at me. Things sure did come back today. Black Blade (5/22/2000; 22:26:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 31052) US Mint Bullion Production http://www.usmint.gov/bullion/annualsales/sales2000.cfm The link has totals of bullion production on a monthly basis for Au, Pt, and Ag Eagles. There are totals for Au and Ag Eagles so far this month, however, either the Pt Eagle numbers haven't been posted or else there hasn't been any Pt Eagle production so far this month. Hmmmm.......... Solomon Weaver (5/22/2000; 22:14:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 31051) Canuck...more on paper silver... http://www.gold-eagle.com/gold_digest_00/butler050800.html Canuck (5/22/2000; 18:43:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 31034)your request for more info goes a little over my head...I think that someone like ORO will do better than I .....What I do understand is that in a normal healthy commodity market, it is GOOD when there are a large multiple of paper trades over physical...this provides the market with a much higher daily liquidity and helps it correct and fluctuate...obviously, the trades are primarily balancing out..In the link above, Ted Butler tells the layman who has $25,000 to invest the recipe for buying a COMEX silver inventory certificate...It is a very educational article because the same all holds true for gold.------On a side note....I just got an email from my stock broker and she seems frustrated to see me with 50% of my account in cash and the rest in mining stocks...she implored me to invest on "facts" not "assumptions"...ha ha.Poor old Solomon SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 22:11:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 31050) Asia / Pacific Markets http://finance.yahoo.com/m2?u That's the one! SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 22:10:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 31049) Asia / Pacific Markets http://finance.yahoo.com/m2?u Let's see if this works! SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 22:08:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 31048) Asia / Pacific Markets Sorry for the bad link below. Im workin on it. SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 22:06:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 31047) Asia / Pacific Markets http://financeyahoo.com/m2?u It's a sea of red tonight my friends! TownCrier (5/22/2000; 22:03:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 31046) Gold Demand Remains Strong World Gold Council NEWS RELEASELONDON: 22 May, 2000 - Gold demand remained strong during the first quarter of 2000, the World Gold Council said today. Total demand of 795.2 tonnes maintained the level of the first quarter of 1999, when demand went on to set a record for the full year, according to the World Gold Council's quarterly survey Gold Demand Trends, published today.Demand for jewellery was 701 tonnes, 7% above the first quarter of 1999 and a record for the period. Consumption was buoyant in many countries, helped by the improving global economy. The volatility in the gold price prompted consumers in some countries to defer jewellery purchases, but improving economic prospects should support healthy demand over the remainder of the year.There were outstanding gains in jewellery consumption during the first quarter of the year in the following areas: * Turkey, up 79%* South-east Asia, up 59%* Brasil, up 45%* Mexico, up 22%* United Kingdom, up 18%The demand for gold as an investment was 94.2 tonnes, 29% below the level of a year ago, with a sharp fall in sales of new coins in the US accounting for almost all the decline. US coin sales last year were exceptionally high on Y2K concerns. Elsewhere in the world, investment demand was virtually unchanged.[TownCrier note: It would seem that the typical American investor has become the last clinger upon the puckered rim of a paradigm shift which gave birth to this thing they've proudly named "New Economy." If gold consumption may be used as an indicator, the rest of the world is not so eager to kiss this "baby."]Miss Haruko Fukuda, Chief Executive Officer, World Gold Council, commented: "The continued strength of worldwide demand for gold during the first quarter of this year is encouraging for several reasons. It came in a period when physical demand often experiences some seasonal weakness, and it was maintained despite both price fluctuations during this period and the fact that the average price of $290 an ounce remained well above the 20-year lows reached last summer."--------In a separate presentation to launch this quarter's report, George Milling-Stanley indicated that while investment demand for gold (coins and bars) in China remains small compared to China's jewelry demand for gold, the investment demand in China during this first three months in 2000 exceeded the entire year 1999 total by 50%. The beginning of a serious trend, maybe? He went on to say:"Progress toward liberalisation of the gold market in China continues. The government maintained its control of both the supply and the price of gold at all points along the chain of distribution, from mine production right through to the retail consumer. However, the People's Bank of China has indicated its agreement in principle with the three-stage programme of deregulation outlined in a report sponsored by the Council late last year." Solomon Weaver (5/22/2000; 21:49:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 31045) Elwood....you are probably closer to right than I thought...and I will agree that Central Bankers are not fools..... ElwoodI will agree with you that the European Central Banks have certainly played their hands more wisely, and are "probably" less exposed to lease defaults.....just consider however that this leasing story has gone on for many years...and even the best of them may not have understood what it would build into. We have some very interesting times ahead my friend.Poor old Solomon YGM (5/22/2000; 21:09:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 31044) TC... TownCrier (5/22/2000; 19:25:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 31039)Is the U.S. Dollar to lose an element of support?***TC....this being another one of the many dominoes in the "Great Unwinding of Paper"....when the dam breaks the outflow of US dollars will boggle the average American mind....not to mention the tide of Gold Short covering trying to outrun the surge of paper being (they may try too late) converted to Physical......Ahhh! What a tangled web we weave...........Well lets see them unweave this without the default of the entire PM futures markets....IMO....KenGo Coins, Physical and GATA for real investment, real money, and real results...... YGM (5/22/2000; 20:54:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 31043) ED...Lets just hope... he reads it and then is inspired to look deeper..... .....the copy to the newspaper will draw heat and attention and that's all that counts....I have no right or interest to be doing the email to reps thing as a Canadian, but I do inform Gov't Opposition here to little avail.....All we can do is what we are (as you have done) and spread the seeds of doubt as to the honesty of the Gold Markets in others...Thanks for asking my opinion but I'm far from a scholarly letter writer,,,,I think you covered many bases,......insurmountable odds maybe, but it feels good to fight back, yes!........ ..Ken Chris Powell (5/22/2000; 20:48:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 31042) GATA continues making Washington contacts http://www.egroups.com/message/gata/464? A report from GATA Chairman Bill Murphy.To subscribe to GATA's dispatches by emailand get them immediately so you don't haveto go look for them, send an email to:gata-subscribe@eGroups.com Elwood (5/22/2000; 20:36:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 31041) Solomon Weaver (5/22/2000; 0:05:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 30995) Sir, I know about the tight supply. You know about the tight supply. Isn't it reasonable to assume that the Euro central bankers also know about the tight supply? For them to deliver into such a market just doesn't make sense. They would never see their gold returned, and I think they realize that. They've been inflating the paper dollar with paper gold. When it's time for the coup de grace the world will revalue their physical gold and destroy the dollar. Any leased gold that was delivered has to be from a non-Euro bank, and will never be returned. It is the same as if the bank sold it. If this were not the case, then the BOE sales would be the BOE leases. That is, if the UK believed that their gold could be returned, even at a date far into the future, they would not be selling, they'd be leasing.Regards,Elwood ced_s (5/22/2000; 19:48:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 31040) (No Subject) @YGM, I have read your posts at Gold Eagle and now here. What do you think?? Sorry for the long post.Frank O'BannonGovernor of the State of IndianaAs Governor of this state, I am sure you hold the welfare of the greatest number of your people to be of paramountimportance. What I wish to say to you is difficult to for me as I am an ordinary citizen of the State of Indiana, I amnot a trained financial or political personage. There are a growing number of people who daily see the governmental manipulations of the supposed "Free Markets" for political purposes. All of the markets are involved, the commodities, precious metals and stock markets are the most visible ones. Daily more and more people see this although it is never reported in the media of the U.S., what is presented is dis-information or if bluntly untruths are presented to the American people.You may ask what this means to you, as you are a Governor of Indiana, not a banker, broker etc:. If something isn't done to bring this to a head, you may be Governor of a state in total dis-array. The Government in Washington is doing a juggling act to keep the markets from crashing, the metals and commodity markets down and obedient, and a systemic collapse in banking from occuring. All of this for political purposes and gain for the favored banks.If you ask for hard evidence of this, I am enclosing a letter I wrote and it was published in the Columbus, Indiananewspaper The Republic. In that letter I am discussing manipulation of the gold market. I would also request youhave one of your astute staff members contact the Gold Anti-Trust Action group. They have a pile of evidence they have recently turned over to the Senate and House Banking Committees. New evidence is brought to light every week. The most recent being the total of gold financial derivatives by major banks is now in excess of two hundred billion dollars ($ 200,000,000,000). Gold now is at it's 20 year lows, this is in most cases below the cost of production. Great hardship is imposed in the gold mining industry, simply so the banks can benefit from gold leasing, forward selling and hedging. Goldman Sachs has been identified as the bank that caps all rallies in the gold market. I have E-Mailed Senator Lugar on this both last year and this.This same machination devistated the American Farmer these past several years. Former Secretary of the Treasury Rubin was head of Goldman Sachs Bank. They by the way are rapidly losing their credibility in the foreign markets. Rubin was also described by President Clinton as "my friend also". Hillary Clinton was investigated for insider trading in the cattle market. I wonder who gave her the information! Lucky no, perjurer yes. If the American Farmer were to subpoena the futures market records for the last ten years, there would be a forceable eviction of several of the current residents in Washington. Last month, April 15th I believe the NASDAQ was down six hundred and breifly seven hundred points, the DOW was not far behind. The S&P and Dollar Indexes were also down. At exactly 1:20 EST all of these indexes begun a turn around. The word from the futures pits said it was the FED. The next day the story of the Saudi Billionaire was in our ewspapers. Saudi Billionaire was another case of dis-information. There have since been governmental intervention to stave off a big market slide, today was one of those days. The "talking heads" at CNBC feed the public garbage to cover the intervention however. They keep reinforcing the "buy the dips" that the public has been educated to believe. They have to keep the average investor pouring more money into the giant slot machine that the equities markets have become. Money that the average investor couldn't afford to lose. If Greenspan can achieve a "soft landing" the average investor will still lose a great amount of money, if he doesn't we are looking at a nation bankrupted. The best we could then hope for would be deflation and recession, the thought of a depression is too horendous to visualize.Our markets need to be removed from the grasp of government and the banks with their low trillions of assets andthirty or more trillion in financial derivatives. Or Governor O'Bannon should warn the people of the State of Indiana that these markets are no longer free, but are manipulated with the welfare of the extremely wealthy and the banking community as benefactors. If nothing is done, then more Hoosiers will go down the tubes with the markets when they ultimately do go down. This prosperity is an illusion, it has been produced at a great cost to the farming and mining industries.thank youEd Stuart***I will then include a copy of that letter published in the newspaper*** TownCrier (5/22/2000; 19:25:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 31039) Is the U.S. Dollar to lose an element of support? http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Economies&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_econ&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=blk&s=AOSjtIBYnQk9KIERp HEADLINE: BOJ Discussed Consequences of Ending Zero-Rate PolicyMinutes from the April 10 policy board meeting of the Bank of Japan kicked around the idea of raising interest rates for the first time in 10 years. According to minutes of the meeting, central bank Governor Masaru Hayami said, "The time was approaching to reexamine the compatibility of the zero-rate policy -- an unprecedented policy -- with developments in the real economy," and that the termination of the zero-rate policy would have to be sufficiently forewarned so that it "would not be a surprise to the market." And according to Bloomberg: "Hayami's been dropping plenty of hints."One wonders if Japan isn't evaluating means to preserve the yen in the face of prospects that the dollar might take a sizable tumble. What are the odds of additional forex operations (in which they buy dollars to weaken the yen-dollar exchange rate) after such a decision to raise yen interest rates? jinx44 (5/22/2000; 19:06:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 31038) Wizard of Oz I clipped this from TB2000. It gives a good overview and definition of terms that Mr. Baum wrote about.**********************************************************For those interested in L. Frank Baum's "The Wonderful Wizard of Oz" (1900) as a populist novel, the following translation table and discussion are helpful: Meaning in the Wizard of Oz -------------- --------------------- Oz= ounce (oz) of gold Dorothy= "Everyman" Tin Woodsman= industrial worker Scarecrow= farmer Cowardly Lion= William Jennings Bryan, populist Munchkins= the "little people" Yellow Brick Road=gold standard Toto= a dog "In the story, Dorothy is swept away from Kansas in a tornado and arrives in a mysterious land inhabited by `little people.' Her landing kills the Wicked Witch of the East (bankers and capitalists), who `kept the munchkin people in bondage.' "In the movie, Dorothy begins her journey through the Land of Oz wearing ruby slippers, but in the original story Dorothy's magical slippers are silver [a reference to the bimetallic system advocated by W.J. Bryan]. Along the way on the yellow brick (gold) road, she meets a Tin Woodsman who is `rusted solid' (a reference to the industrial factories shut down during the depression of 1893). The Tin Woodsman's real problem, however, is that he doesn't have a heart (the result of dehumanizing work in the factory that turned men into machines). "Farther down the road Dorothy meets the Scarecrow, who is without a brain (the farmer, Baum suggests, doesn't have enough brains to recognize what his political interests are). [Shades of Marx's critique of peasants!] Next Dorothy meets the Cowardly Lion, an animal in need of courage (Bryan, with a load roar but little else). Together they go off to Emerald City (Washington) in search of what the wonderful Wizard of Oz (the President) might give them. "When they finally get to Emerald City and meet the Wizard, he, like all good politicians, appears to be whatever people wish to see in him. He also plays on their fears.... But soon the Wizard is revealed to be a fraud--only a little old man `with a wrinkled face' who admits that he's been `making believe.' `I am just a common man,' he says. But he is a common man who can rule only by deceiving the people into thinking that he is more than he really is. "`You're a humbug,' shouts the Scarecrow, and this is the core of Baum's message. Those forces that keep the farmer and worker down are manipulated by frauds who rule by deception and trickery; the President is powerful only as long as he is able to manipulate images and fool the people. [Politics doesn't change, does it?] "Finally, to save her friends, Dorothy `melts' the Wicked Witch of the West (just as evil as the East), and the Wizard flies off in a hot-air balloon to a new life. The Scarecrow (farmer) is left in charge of Oz, and the Tin Woodsman is left to rule the East. This populist dream of the farmer and worker gaining political power was never to come true, and Baum seems to recognize this by sending the Cowardly Lion back into the forest, a recognition of Bryan's retreat from national politics. "Dorothy is able to return to her home with the aid of her magical silver shoes, but on waking in Kansas, she realizes that they've fallen off, representing the demise of the silver coinage issue in American politics." TownCrier (5/22/2000; 19:06:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 31037) Here's one for our wandering Sir CoBra(too) http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=U.S.%20Economy&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_government&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s2=blk&bt=blk&s=AOSlC7xWdQXVzdHJp HEADLINE: Austria Says It's Hopeful EU Boycott Will Be Lifted Next MonthFinland, Ireland, Denmark, Italy, Spain and Greece indicated that they favor an ending or modification of the current diplomatic freeze. Austrian Foreign Minister Benita Ferrero-Waldner said of an EU summit in Portugal next month, "we would hope it would come to a lifting of these measures. It makes sense especially given the important issues Europe is facing right now." TownCrier (5/22/2000; 18:55:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 31036) ECB's Welteke Says Euro Doesn't Reflect Fundamentals http://quote.bloomberg.com/pgcgi.cgi?T=markets_newsfeat99.ht=&ptitle=EMU%20Top%20Stories&touch=1&s=AOSmQ2hVwRUNCJ3Mg In a speech at the University of Cologne, Bundesbank president and ECB council member Ernst Welteke said the euro was undervalued against the dollar by 20 - 30 percent based on economic growth rates and subdued euroland inflation.Welteke reminded his listeners that the euro's value "may move away from the fundamental data for some time, though currency markets won't be able to overlook the euro region's favorable internal price stability after all."When asked about the ECB's concern for exchange rates, Welteke said, "it's not our aim to stabilize the euro's exchange value, but rather its internal value." He said pressure for governments and companies to restructure has been increased through introduction of the euro, and called on governments to intensify their reforms at cutting budget deficits and reducing public debt.Bloomberg reports that in response to a question on "creating a centralized banking supervision system, Welteke said such an institution isn't necessary as long as different banking structures prevail among euro members." Cavan Man (5/22/2000; 18:51:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 31035) THC Debate Two maxims to consider as they might apply to subject:1. This is a business not a charity.2. There's no such thing as a free lunch.Sorry if I take liberty MK. This is the best site. They don't take shots at #2. Really, MK and George as FOA and Another?! Give (US)AGOLD a break. PS: Thanks to MK et al, I'll be taking the pledge (Libertarian) also. Kind regards....CM Canuck (5/22/2000; 18:43:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 31034) @ Solomon Weaver Excellant information on silver, thank you. Can you provide clarification on a couple points. A mere 2% of total silver trade is silver mined and consumed correct? I believe the author is saying 98% is paper. I think want I'm not grasping is the effect of the paper trade on the POS. I thought futures and options etc. was a net zero game. How does paper trade bring down the price; simply more 'bets' on the price going down than up, therefore the price is driven down? The paper price overwhelms the natural supply and demand price? At a ratio of 49:1, the paper price is whats driving the POS, yes? Is the ratio of paper gold vs. physical gold as bad? When does this paper madness stop? I am guessing that when the paper pushers realize that the physical supply/demand price is radically out of line with the POS/POG then inherent risk playing the game becomes too great? Am I getting warmer or still in the 'novice' leagues?Thanks for your patience,Learning,Canuck. TownCrier (5/22/2000; 18:34:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 31033) EU Agrees to Spur Tax Cuts Without Widening Budget Deficits http://quote.bloomberg.com/pgcgi.cgi?T=markets_newsfeat99.ht=&ptitle=EMU%20Top%20Stories&touch=1&s=AOSllMxUZRVUgQWdy European Union finance ministers agreed to new rules that are intended to provide means to cut taxes where appropriate to stimulate economic growth "without jeopardizing budgetary discipline".The European Commission said, "The only way to generate a real growth dividend is by tackling head on the underlying reasons for the high tax burden, that is to introduce the necessary reforms to reduce and restructure public expenditure." TownCrier (5/22/2000; 18:14:37MT - usagold.com msg#: 31032) Thought this e-mail reply to one from aunuggets might be of general benefit to the forum... By way of introduction, you might be more familiar with me as TownCrier. I have just now gotten off the phone with Michael, and my understanding is that, coming from the original supplier, the coins that were offered through [*another venue*] were worn, circulated coins (that seemingly met their fate in the melting pot) hence, the "clearance" level prices that were apparently being offered for a time on those ill-fated pieces.By way of contrast, Michael had secured only the available brilliant, uncirculated coins from the supplier, and they were priced accordingly. Apples and oranges, so to speak.It would seem that feelings may have been trampled on both sides of this discussion, but I hope this is now water under the bridge, and that hindsight may allow all parties to avoid similar problems in the future. As I am not among the office staff who handle orders, you can be sure that my perspective is such that I do not see the forum as a reasonable or satisfactory substitute for calling MK's office for pricing issues due to the many variables intrinsic to the sale of limited-quantity items in an ever-changing market.Kind regards, R. Strauss Sitemaster, USAGOLD.com YGM (5/22/2000; 18:02:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 31031) GATA...INFO IMPACT SITES...... Sorry for long scroll, but there are meets of major importance........ ****** IF YOU PLAN ON ATTENDING ANY...of these conferences, as a Gold Advocate you should ask Chris Powell for some GATA info to pass out if GATA does not have a presence...Speak out & cause others to question the GATA mandate.......It all helps...Sincerely...Ken R.PS: I'm sure this help would be well rec'd by those 3 or 4 overworked souls, Bill, Chris etc.....,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, World Silver Survey 2000 London & New York 24th May2000Gold Fields Mineral Services+44 (0)20 7539 7820GFMS International Mining & Metallurgy CongressAnkara, Turkey 24th 28th May 2000Chamber of Met. Engineers+90 312 425 4160Metaloda International Precious Metals Institute 24thAnnual Conference Marriott Hotel, Williamsburg, Virginia 11th 14th June 2000International Precious Metals Institute+1 850 476 1156IPMI MB Automotive Materials Conference Cologne,Germany 11th 13th June 2000Metal Bulletin+44 1277 633753Metal Bulletin International Derivatives Conference The Savoy,London 19th 21st June 2000Futures Industry Association+1 202 466 5460FIA MB E-Commerce & Metals World Conference New York22nd 23rd June 2000Metal Bulletin+44 1277 633753Metal Bulletin CPM's PGM Survey 2000 Briefing New York 11thJuly 2000CPM+1 212 785 8320vmotto Diggers & Dealers Forum 2000 Palace Hotel,Kaalgoorlie 24th 26th July 2000Suzanne Morrin+61 8 9021 5144diggers FT Gold Conference Intercontinental Hotel, Paris26th 27th June 2000Financial Times Conferences+44 (0)20 7873 3375FTconferences Argentina Mining 2000 22nd 25th August 2000EditecR Cortes China Gold & Precious Metals Conference Int.Convention Centre, Shenzhan 31st August 2000RNA Holdings, Hong Kong+44 (0)20 7539 7820RNA 3rd Annual Platinum Group Metals Seminar New YorkSeptember 2000CPM+1 212 785 8320vmotto Las Vegas Investment in Mining Conference LasVegas, NV 6th 7th September 2000 KAZMIN2000 Almaty, Kazakhstan 6th 8th September 2000ITE Exhibitions+44 (0)20 7596 5213Dan Thurlow GFMS Precious Metals Seminar London 13thSeptember 2000Gold Fields Mineral Services+44 (0)20 7539 7820GFMS NYMEX Platinum Dinner New York 14th September2000 GFMS Precious Metals Seminar New York 15thSeptember 2000Gold Fields Mineral Services+44 (0)20 7539 7820GFMS Mining 2000 Melbourne, Australia 19th 22ndSeptember 2000+61 8 9485 1166Mining2000 7th China Metals Conference Beijing 20th 22nd September 2000Metal Bulletin+44 1277 633753Metal Bulletin LME Dinner The Grosvenor, London 10th October2000 Goldfields Mining Expo Kalgoorlie, WAAustralia 18th 20th October 2000+61 8 9021 2970GMexpo CPM's Gold Survey 2000 New York 31st October2000CPM+1 212 785 8320vmotto GFMS Precious Metals Seminar London 13thSeptember 2000Gold Fields Mineral Services+44 (0)20 7539 7820GFMS NYMEX Gold Dinner New York 1st November 2000 Annual Investing in African Mining Perth, Australia1st 3rd November 2000Australian Journal of Mining+61 2 8235 5300Claudia Linkert Global Mining Opportunities Vancouver, BC Canada13th 15th November 2000Randol+1 303 526 1626Hans Moscow International Mining Exhibition Moscow,Russia 21st 24th November 2000ITE Exhibitions+44 (0)20 7286 9720 GFMS Update Launches Cape Town & Toronto 10thJanuary 2001Gold Fields Mineral Services+44 (0)20 7539 7820GFMS Mexico Mining 2001 Puerto Vallarta, Jal 14th 16th February 2001Randol+1 303 526 1626Hans LME Dinner The Grosvenor London 23rd October 2001 Leland (5/22/2000; 17:15:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 31030) U.S. Silver Eagles!!! Michael has a source, so If you have been holding off ordering because you thought they were no longer available,don't wait..."Happy Customer" YGM (5/22/2000; 17:01:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 31029) F.W.I.W. File... CB Action... Russia Central Bank Says Swedish Court Freezes AssetsMOSCOW, May 22, 2000 -- (Reuters) A Swedish court has frozen foreign-held assets of the Russian central bank and other Russian organizations in a dispute to settle claims against the government, bank Chairman Viktor Gerashchenko said on Monday.He told a news conference that the ruling did not affect the bank's foreign currency and gold reserves and that a central bank Paris subsidiary, Eurobank, would mount a legal challenge to the ruling.The defense would show the central bank was not at all responsible for government obligations, Gerashchenko said.Russian daily newspaper Kommersant reported that Swiss trading firm Noga SA had initiated the suit.It said that 450 million French francs ($61.73 million) worth of Russian assets had been frozen in banks in France, Switzerland and Luxembourg.Gerashchenko did not specifically refer to Noga regarding the new freeze, but he said the bank had been forced to defend itself previously against the firm.Noga claimed about $279 million from Russia in a Luxembourg court in 1993, alleging Russian agencies broke contracts to deliver fuel in return for loans."This (the new court ruling) creates problems which are similar to those in 1994-1995, when Noga took such measures in Switzerland and Luxembourg," Gerashchenko said."We had to hire foreign lawyers who showed that according to current banking laws we do not carry any responsibility for the government. That agreement was made between the government and the company."Gerashchenko said that the new freeze included a number of organizations, including Vneshtorgbank, a central bank subsidiary."On Thursday evening we learned that an appeals court had ruled, on the basis of a Stockholm court (decision) from 1997, to freeze assets of nearly 70 organizations active in Russia," he said.He said the ruling was carefully written regarding assets of the central bank and Vneshtorgbank, as well as assets which could be used to satisfy claims against the government.Central bank hard currency and gold reserves did not include such assets, he said.He added that lawyers would make the case that no central bank assets should be used to pay government debts in this case."We have already asked a new legal firm be found, and it has been found, which will make a counter-claim that our inclusion in the list is not correct."(C)2000 Copyright Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redissemination of the contents of this screen are expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters Limited. Al Fulchino (5/22/2000; 16:44:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 31028) Rules vs NoRules THC may be just the most wonderful person. I really don't know or have reason to believe he isn't. And if he and MK can work things out, fine, but why can't we all see that this is not a free speech issue. It is a personal property issue, as stated months ago by Peter Asher. The owner has chosen to have the whole issue of ads (and it was an ad, imagine if I were to tell you the price of my super unleaded right here and right now, the price would tell you whether to shop my stations or not) not be allowed here. It is his business as to why and he has spoken to it. It is not free speech issues we are talking here. As I have stated, if his (THC's) approach had been to ONLY speak of highs and lows of spreads that he has noted, without mentioning ONE SINGLE NAME, such as EBAY, in my mind he would have skirted the whole issue. But the minute someone mentions a name of another entity, then you have an AD. Lets take it a step down the road. Lets say the seller on EBAY was none other than THC himself (her? I don't know so I apologize). If it was THC, then what would you say? Now I sincerely doubt that it was THC. But how is MK to know? There is a whole new job that the THC defenders could take off his hands. Start checking who is a principal in any company mentioned even EBAY. Then if the EBAY site had gold we could know if it was THC's, his/her's spouse, relative, friend and so on. And then we could, being FULLY INFORMED, judge anything THC had to say.Meant with malice toward none. YGM (5/22/2000; 16:37:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 31027) Give them an earful.....Ed, (ced_s) Tell them short & sweet...... We're all trading paper for Gold and we want Gold Exposure from Banks & GATA wants answers..... etc...I'm sure many here are doing their email part to reps but maybe a concerted effort such as the one ongoing at GE by Upon Roof and a few others might be a positive energy here.....not that there isn't already......Most efforts only require a ringleader right?.. Glad to hear you're getting involved........Regards....Ken HI - HAT (5/22/2000; 16:33:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 31026) Journeyman msg. # 31008 Governance "R" US I love the smell of "Common Sense" in the morning.Patrick Henry...........,Hip Hip Hooray ! Gold Explorer (5/22/2000; 16:07:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 31025) Gold Explorer Been lurking for a long time. Best gold site on the web thanks to USAGOLD. I decided to purchase my gold from USAGOLD because of their effort and service providing this website. However, I almost considered cancelling my order of ten German 20 Mark gold coins after the shocking news of hearing of THC's banishment from this forum. In my opinion, THC was not only well informed, but also displayed some of the best manners of any poster on several of the gold site forums. Without going into detail, he was in no way promoting the Ebay website. Everyone knows about the auction site and the questions he asked USA GOLD were legitimate. If he was crossing over the line, he should have been politely reminded and redirected to call the company for details.Banishing THC was wrong and unfortunately casts a shadow over the management at USA GOLD.As a customer of USA GOLD (no I don't mind paying a couple of extra dollars to help support the excellent commentary from this site), I would sincerely hope that management reinstate THC's posting priveledges. Solomon Weaver (5/22/2000; 15:54:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 31024) an astute observation about the reasons for prices of silver http://www.cpmgroup.com/vmnyssa.doc And another interesting fact comparing real silver trading to paper trading....."This next chart illustrates the extent to which the silver market is awash with these "paper silver" assets. The first bar in this chart shows the physical flow of new supply into the market was around 629 million ounces last year. The second bar represents the activity in the futures and options markets, which totaled 26.2 billion ounces last year -- 42 times the amount of new supply. Finally, the turnover on the London Bullion Market Association is accounted for in the third bar of the chart, and amounted to 67.1 billion ounces.In other words, a total of 93.9 billion ounces of silver changed hands in the major silver markets last year. Physical new supply accounted for less than 1% of this total number of ounces traded, and this was just in the major markets. Adding new supply (629 million ounces) and industrial demand (822 million ounces) together, the combined total of 1.45 billion ounces still accounts for less than 2% of the total amount of silver traded in the major markets in 1998. It is this silver that is traded but never delivered that accounts for the vast majority of activity in the silver market. To try to explain the price of silver based on the one or two percent of total turnover that is related directly to annual physical supply and demand is to assure failure, since you are ignoring 98% or more of the reasons why people buy and sell silver.The question that remains then is who is it that is trading the remaining 98%. These trades represent several different types of activity, including spread trading, futures, forwards, options, and dealer options. Included in this total is a massive amount of speculative trading by proprietary traders at banks, brokerage houses, and trading companies, who have persistently shorted the silver market."Copliments to the author...Poor old Solomon Solomon Weaver (5/22/2000; 15:46:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 31023) a good link for silver market statisitics http://www.cpmgroup.com/vmnyssa.doc bit from this link....."As an example of the unpredictability of the silver market, the amount of physical silver that entered the market in February 1998 was surprisingly high. The sharp increase in silver to $8.00 per ounce in February 1998 brought out more silver in scrap form than we had expected, including, surprisingly, silver coin bags. This is surprising, since these bags typically can be used as collateral and swapped for good delivery metal more cheaply than they can be refined. These coins typically are not expected to be refined into good delivery metal until the physical market really is running out of silver bullion. Last year, we saw some of these silver bags, perhaps 10% of them, being melted down and refined for the first time in many years." RS (5/22/2000; 15:38:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 31022) Canuck usagold.com msg#: 31019 re: Uses for Silver Silver is commonly used to fabricate electrical contacts in many devices such as relays, switches, etc.I have no figures on the volume of silver used annually in the electrical/electronics industries.In general, silver is used because of its superior electrical conductivity and it's ductility. Silver is alloyed with copper and/or nickel in varying percentages when used for this purpose.Silver wire is used instead of common copper electrical wire in precision laboratory electrical instruments, whenever the application requires maximum electrical conductivity.Very large amounts of silver wire are sometimes used for research projects such as super-conducting magnets and particle-accelerators.Gold is used for electrical switches and contacts where very low-voltage signals must be reliably switched. Gold is the only way to manufacture many types of electronic devices because it combines superior electrical conductivity with the fact that gold does not corrode. Corrosion (oxidation, tarnish, rust) interferes with conductivity in metals.Precious metals are essential to the modern electrical and electronics industries and probably always will be. Solomon Weaver (5/22/2000; 15:38:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 31021) Canuck - And uses for silver http://www.cpmgroup.com/silver.htm http://www.cpmgroup.com/silver.htm"In emerging markets, investment demand for silver also is vibrant. However, in these countries, silver tends to be held in the form of jewelry, ornaments, and religious objects that are easily melted down and resold. In terms of fabrication demand, silver possesses many physical characteristics which make it a key component in numerous products used on a daily basis. The main uses for silver are in jewelry and silverware, photographic films and papers, and electrical contacts and connectors. Silver is also used in mirrors, medical instruments, dental alloys, brazing alloys, silver-bearing batteries, and bearings. The largest silver-producing country is Mexico, followed by the United States, Peru, and Canada. On a global scale, approximately 58 countries mine silver annually. From the late 1980s to the late 1990s the amount of silver extracted from primary silver mines fell, while silver mined as a co-product of copper, lead, zinc, gold, or poly-metallic deposits rose. The steady growth in silver bearing products worldwide has also led to increases in the amount of silver recovered from scrap recycling. Most scrap comes from photographic materials, jewelry, and silverware."By the way...it is true that the recovery of silver in photography is improving...but digital seems to drive total film use (for example Kodak has a new camera out that lets you see the photos you just took on a small screen and if you want it you "save" it to film!!!! Also, the entire world is growing into photo bugs....Look at silver from a risk reward...the current market price for bullion is marginally above the cost of production...as I mentioned in my post at the start of the day...there is not enough silver to have it monetized again...in the event that investors start to want silver as a financial investment, demand will explode.Poor old Solomon Farfel (5/22/2000; 15:19:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 31020) WSJ reveals: Goldman Sachs Screws its Partners in UPC Deal It's certainly worth taking a glance at today's Wall Street Journal, specifically the article detailing Goldman's "going behind the backs" of its investment bank brothers, Merrill Lynch and Donaldson Lufkin. In this particular case, Goldman surreptitiously maneuvered against these major Wall Street firms in grabbing the enormous bridge loan business provided to United Pan Europe Communications (UPC). As it turns out, Karma is striking Goldman badly now that UPC is floundering.In my mind, the most notable aspect of this entire article is the revelation of further astounding deterioration in the once cohesive fraternity of major Wall Street investment firms.There is a real cutthroat approach developing amongst these firms and I believe it stems from the huge riches gained by these various companies during the great bull bubble of the past decade. They have become "as rich as God" and when companies develop this type of obscene wealth, they often believe that the "old" rules no longer apply to them. Furthermore, such obscene wealth can lead them to believe that they no longer need any other partners and are better off destroying them so that the "wreckage victims" can then be absorbed for pennies on the dollar.The entire UPC drama is CERTAIN to be a preview of the gold market as one of the carry trade partners-in-crime begins to cover very sneakily its gold short positions at the expense of those investment firms stupid enough to believe that the cohesive front against gold can be maintained ad infinitum.If I were to lay bets, I would think that GS is the one most likely to screw the other bullion banks, with a little advice and assistance from former Treasury Sec., Robbin Robert Rubin.Let us all hope that tomorrow's BOE auction proves to be the nail in the coffin of bullion bank cohesion. After all, it is only a matter of time before one of the bullion banks breaks ranks and grabs as much gold as possible at any price in order to ensure that it is the lone survivor when the upcoming great gold short squeeze occurs. Conversely, one can only hope that the major gold mining producers unite very soon to form a de facto cartel (excluding Barrick) and either bid together aggressively for central bank gold or else curtail gold production dramatically or a combination of the two. Imagine the delight these long suffering producers will experience watching Barrick scramble to cover its enormous physical gold shorts!Wouldn't it be great if a bullion bank took a front seat at tomorrow's BOE auction and bid vigorously for the gold at any price, much to the amazement and chagrin of the other bullion banks? You know it is going to happen eventually, the only question being "When?"When such an unexpected development occurs, then watch how quickly Britain suspends further gold auctions and reverses course, becoming a gold acquisitor instead.ThanksF* Canuck (5/22/2000; 14:47:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 31019) Silver Does anyone know or have information regarding uses for silver?I talked to an elderly gentleman recently regarding silver use in photography. He is the owner of a large processing centre and retail store for photographic equipment. The mention of investment seemed to struck a nerve. He told me the photography industry uses some 50% of silver supply and with recycling of the silver nitrate and the advent of digital photography, demand for silver (at least in the photography industry) will fall off dramatically. The man rambled on about being 'burnt' in the silver world some 10-20 years ago and said, "...the quickest way to loose money is to invest in silver..." Is the old man simply cranky or is there some logic in his rationale?Canuck. Cavan Man (5/22/2000; 14:44:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 31018) Those market averages Sure came back a ways today! SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 14:38:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 31017) N.Y. PONZI Nasdaq 3,364.21 + Dow 10,542.55 = 13,906.76 divide by 2 = 6,953.38 ponzi points.DOWN 55.24 Ponzi points!Sorry for the second ponzi post! SHIFTY (5/22/2000; 14:37:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 31016) N.Y. PONZI Nasdaq 3,364.21 + Dow 10,542.55 = 13,906.76 divide by 2 = 6,953.38 ponzi points. ced_s (5/22/2000; 14:23:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 31015) @YGM Over the next few days I will compose another letterThis time I am sending it to the Governor of the State of Indiana, advising him of the manipulations of all the markets for political purposes. I will also suggest that he will end up with an impoverished state to govern or to bequeath to his successor. I will urge he press his US Senate and House Banking Committee members to launch a full scale investigation into the behavior of these markets in the last 10 years. For him to do less would be a disservice to the Soverign Citizens of the State of Indiana, and also to prevent any of the fall out of this scandal from besmirching his reputation.One of our Senators, Richard Lugar is chairman of the Senate Agricultural Committee and has oversight of the CFTC and thru the Commodity Exchange Act governs the U.S. futures markets. ************************************************************Do you think this might have any effect ??************************************************************To date, I have not purchased any metal from our sponsor, Iwill remedy this as soon as I recover from last Mondays splurge. From what I read yesterday they have realistic premiums, and they do graciously offer us the use of this Forum.Take careEd Stuart Beowulf (5/22/2000; 13:28:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 31014) Farfel on BOE auction Farfel,I expect we'll see tomorrow similar action to that at the last two auctions. Minutes before the announcement of the results, right after the bids are due, the price will spike up maybe $0.20 - $0.50 then the bids will come out showing the purchase price below the spot price at the time. Of course they will be taking the spot price that was just pumped up after the bids had come in. Then we will see article after article proclaiming how bad the auction went because it came in below the spot price, event though it will be 2 or more times oversubscribed. But we know better know don't we. :)I've mentioned to many at work about the supply of locked up stock coming into the NASDAQ, that you've posted about last week. I've also mentioned about the drying up of silver supply and large gold derivatives by the banks in the last year. Only one convert so far. He's resorted to selling his NASDAQ stocks into rallies and getting out. He too thinks something doesn't look right in the silver and gold market and now believes me an is looking for some of the best leveraged miner in platinum/silver/gold for the coming explosion. Hey, one convert is better than none. :)I've warned them, given them web addresses to look at for info, they can make their decisions now. I've quit pestering them about how a company can have a P/E of 150 and still look like a screaming buy to them. Let them take their lumps like the rest of us.-Beowulf Canuck (5/22/2000; 13:26:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 31013) BOE Auction (#6 I believe) Nice bounce for the yellow today, and just before the dastardly sale, imagine?I'm hoping for a good bid ratio (tonnes bid/25 tonnes); "show me the demand, show me the covering!!" Last 2 auctions were in the order of 2 and 3 bid ratio (if memory serves me well). The highest that I recall was either 6 or 8, in either auction #2 or #3. Would be nice to see a 6 or 8 tomorrow morn.Any news of that 'crooked' rumour where the BOE dismissed 'unqualified' bids to bring down the bid ratio? TownCrier (5/22/2000; 13:08:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 31012) Hear ye! Hear ye! There is a new addition to the Gilded Opinion at USAGOLD! http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/taylorpaulintrvw.html Thanks go out to J Taylor for sharing his interview with Conressman Ron Paul (Texas) entitiled "In Defense of our 'Unalienable Rights.'" To whet your appetite for the full commentary found at the link above, here is a small taste...Taylor: "Perhaps it isn't fair to ask a physician and a lawmaker for investment advice. But given your view that we are in a gigantic bubble, I must ask you what you think Americans should do at this stage to protect themselves from what could be a cataclysmic bubble bursting event?"Congressman Paul: "Just recently in the early part of the year I did a floor speech dealing with a lot of political and economic issues in general. I believe I listed ten things that people ought to consider doing to preserve our liberties. But there were two things I listed that I think are very important."First, in political and economic crisis even the most basic rights, like personal safety are threatened. I happen to be a strong proponent of the second amendment just as the founders of this country were. Secondly, I think ultimately economic chaos will bring on--under today's circumstances especially--some currency crisis. So I am a strong believer in actually holding something of real value, not something that represents debt as does the U.S. Dollar and virtually all other currencies. So despite the argument that the holders of gold have not done well during the past ten or twenty years, I think people should ultimately protect themselves with gold. My job as a politician is to make sure those options needed for self-protection, namely to own a gun and buy gold, are available." Farfel (5/22/2000; 12:44:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 31011) BOE Auction: Ignore ANY downside result! Remember the important thing about the BOE auction tomorrow:Although there have been rumors about some surprise bidders for gold tomorrow in which case the gold trigger could be pulled with an amazing upspike, nevertheless should the auction result be spun negatively and gold falls for any reason, then keep in mind that the BOE auctions are mere market interventions designed to keep the coming gold price explosion under wraps.The BOE auctions are analogous to the bond market interventions by the Treasury. They are governmental attempts to keep those markets from going to their proper equilibrium points: in the gold market, that means a much higher price. In the bond market, much lower prices.These artificial interventions are a hallmark of Clinton economics and served the markets well in the earlier part of the Nineties.However, now with various markets so far away from natural equilibrium points, the various interventions are ultimately futile. They can work one or two day magic but that's about it.When the markets move toward their natural equilibriums, they will do so in climactic severe fashion as always results when a spring is coiled for too long.ThanksF* Wild Hare (5/22/2000; 12:36:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 31010) Timing real estate purchase http://www.unitedcountry.com/ Mr. Asher,Can you expand on your thought regarding real estate purchases in time of recession/inflation.As you say - "Now if you are a believer in a hyper-inflationary recession such as the 70's, then maybe a home would be a good value haven, BUT it should be in sound location that is not "Hot" due to the current "Easy Money""If i am a believer in the above scenario - is it prudent to act before we reach "critical mass" or will there be bargains to be had "after the fall". Let's play what-if.My gut reaction is to act quickly while my modest land-savings still has perceived value. ie, convert the fiat currency to springs, hardwoods and orchards. However, acting quickly may not allow me to properly "try before i buy". Hopefully you see my dilemma.Any information or direction you or anyone can lend is most appreciated. schippi (5/22/2000; 12:33:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 31009) XAU and HUI Gold Chart http://www.SelectSectors.com/xauhui.gif XAU and HUI moving Up together, which is always a good signal. Journeyman (5/22/2000; 12:13:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 31008) Mafias vs. Governments (and vice-versa) @Black Blade, Marius, Elwood, ORO, ALL "Marius, The only difference that I've seen between the Government and the Mafia is this:"+ "When you breaks the rules, the Government steals your possessions and puts you into a cage or uses you for prison (slave) labor, while the Mafia breaks your legs or whacks you. You pay protection money to the Government (taxes/extortion) and protection money to the Mafia(extortion). There you have it. Both enforce a set of laws, and both steal from you." -Black Blade (05/21/00; 23:20:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 30992)I just reread what I wrote -- ah, typed -- here, and I hope you will take itprimarily as an intellectual exercise. Currently I am.Black Blade, my experience with the Russian mafia suggests mafias, at leastones with competitors, may be significantly better to deal with than governments. I'm far from an expert, but I became highly curious abouthow all this works when I discovered I'd been working for a Russian mafia, andthat they pretty much operated as David Friedman had suggested privatecompeting protection services might some twenty years earlier.Initially I had similar perceptions -- that mafias were primarily extortionists and would break your legs or "wack" you at the least provocation. Since doing some reading, even about so-called mafias in America, I'm convinced much of this perception is related to propaganda, ill advised government laws interfering with free markets (alcohol prohibition, etc.) and what my colleague L. Reichard White calls "media's dramatic imperative." That is, we always focus on what's interesting, which usually means controversial. The media, a business counting on customers' money, gives us what we want, often suitably exaggerated and embellished. Thus incidents of mafia drama,exacerbated by government intereference (Elliot Mess & the "Untouchables," etc.) are what the media gives us. Where's the drama in a well-run protectionservice with satisfied customers? Particularly since that image flies inthe face of law-and-order-industry propaganda. As far as extortion goes, there are some mafias that apparently do this.But most of them don't. They consider it immoral and bad business, only indulged in by "roofs" that leak badly. The rogue roofs don't extort businesses that have a legitimate "roof." Shoot-outs are uneconomic, remember. Only governments (inherently mafias with territorial monopolies) can afford things like Waco, Ruby Ridge, Kosovo, the holocaust, WWII, etc.There are indeed cases of leg-breaking and wacking - - - but never forsuch incredibly surrealistic things as "insider trading" or using unapproveddrugs, failing to fill out a form, etc. In fact, as logic dictates (and asa couple mafia-service users patiently explained) it simply doesn't make sense to kill someone, or even cripple them if you expect them to be able to continue to do business with you or to pay you. Their tone of voice suggested I must be under the age of eight --- or have an IQ well under80.Also, if you're not perceived as "just" by potential customers, they'll goto another protection service. Image is incredibly important, just as inother businesses, so all such cripplings and "wackings" are bad for businessand are thus avoided and frowned upon. Compare this to the regular "wackings" performed in the states of Texas, Indiana (where 9 of 17 inmateson death row were exonerated largely because DNA evidence proved they couldn't have done the crime for which they were about to be executed) and elsewhwere by governments.In "mafias" apparently, such severe punishments are extremely rare and usually reserved for very severe problems with internal personnel. And even then, these are rare. Would YOU wack or otherwise cripple Uncle Joe? In most cases, you're free to employ a "roof" of your choice - - - or not. If you don't like your "roof's" service, you can leave and get another -- or self-protect if you choose, and naturally you stop paying for services you'reno longer using. Try that with a government.Finally, while both mafias and governments "enforce rules" a veryimportant question is "which rules?" Where did these rules come from,who invented them and who benefits by them.Mafias, being businesses, have to cut expenses to the bone. They simply can't afford such externalities as trying to control your privatelife by proscribing pornography or arrogating to themselves the right totell you which particular drugs you are allowed to ingest, outlawing goldownership (as USA Inc. did in 1933) etc. etc. etc. In this context, keep in mind that today the "Federal Mafia's" incredibly stupid (except from power and money-grab perspective) anti arbitrary-group-of drug laws cause at least 60% of the crimes against property. As, logically follows, over 60% of the folks in jails and prisons are there as a result of these moronic, unenforcable and anti-American "rules."It seems to me that a general principle has evolved out of several of thethreads running lately here at USA GOLD. Variety is not only the spice oflife. The inescapable competition which results from variety leads toresults which are generally "good;" Concomitantly, "monocultures" generallylead to results which are usually "bad" in the long run, and yet monocultures attempt to maintain themselves at almost all costs against change andinnovation. This even applies to religious monocultures such as the Russian Orthodox Church, etc. It applies to areas we don't normally percieve as operating as a "monoculture" such as currencies and banking in the case of central banks such as the Federal Reserve, and grabbits, such as USA Inc.in the case of protection services. Monocultures which gain forceable monopolies over geographical areas are veryeffective at excluding competition to their goods and/or services and so suchterritorial monocultures should, if possible, be avoided or dissolved.Again, folks, this was largely an intellectual exercise. Sock it to me.Show me where I went off the rails. Regards,Journeyman YGM (5/22/2000; 10:49:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 31007) GO Farfel... Gold needs more Advocates as vocal.... and dedicated as you have been for the long haul...My best regards for your efforts in this time of turmoil and truth seeking .......Ken.Canuck...we sure can discuss it as long as I can look up the answers...(smile)..there's so much smoke & mirrors in the CB realm, it's tough to follow the Gold.....KenTrail Guide....You leave me as usual w/ anticipation of your next revelations....I'll be here waiting patiently....or impatiently, you also are among those deserving of gratitude........Thanks MK & Randy.....Ken Buena Fe (5/22/2000; 10:03:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 31006) Farfel (5/22/2000; 9:23:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 31005) Gotta Love Yah Farfel!Your eloquent revelling in your prosperity is infectious!Go BOy GO! Farfel (5/22/2000; 9:23:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 31005) JUST WATCH THE MONEY FLOWS, IGNORE THE TECHNICAL GURUS! We are in a totally new market, it is an equities BEAR market, a gold BULL market. Fasten your seatbelts! There is still no capitulation in the equities markets, we are going a lot lower.As per the following post from Friday, I called this market almost PERFECTLY this month:--------------------- Farfel (5/19/2000; 10:55:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 30851) Fast recovery from gold losses! Closed out a position in Cisco 60 dollar puts and made another good pile. I am fast on the road to financial recovery. The thing that kept me afloat through all this misery: NO Debt! Thank God for that or I'd have been bankrupt several months ago. Now here's the latest: on Monday, another $40 billion of Nasdaq locked up stock begins to hit the market. I would expect another recovery in the Nasdaq of sorts (maybe today) but it can only be a sucker's rally AGAIN. The next downturn takes the Nasdaq under 3000, it will be swift and hard and high volume. Anybody expecting any kind of pre-election runup in the Nasdaq is dreaming, the new Nasdaq bear market will last for years. If the Nasdaq is not gaining strength by the end of the day then you might have to dive in and pay the higher premium for short side action because it means that the "Buy on the Dip" mentality is disappearing, a prelude to a panic dump. Spoke with a fellow at an internet incubator and he expects a crisis in internet Etail stocks to break out any day now. They are ALL running out of money, most having little more than three months cash to operate their businesses. As for gold, I honestly believe the only reason they've taken it down so low is to position themselves for a full contrarian explosion in the price once the bonds, stocks, and US dollar are all dropping together. So be skeptical of any new developments in the gold sector that smack of manipulation to bring down the price of gold or gold stocks. When hell hits in all three mainstream financial markets, there is nowhere else to go but gold and the rise should be stunning. Thanks F*---------------------With the continued tumult in equities, we are poised finally for a gold/gold stock price explosion. With the continued devastation in general equities, we will soon learn of yet more crises among various hedge funds. My guess: by Wednesday or Thursday but no later than Friday, MORE hedge funds in trouble.Some of those very same funds have been very involved in the gold price suppression through their carry trade activities and with their decimation, gold will be unleashed, finally.Today we are seeing some strength in bonds, hence muted strength in gold.. However as the US Dollar begins its slow but certain tumble, the bond market will go the same way as the stock market, with gold left as the sole flight to safety. The spike upward should be breathtaking.My prediction: with new revelations of the latest hedge funds' problems, there will be yet another bond market panic with a concurrent gold price liftoff.ThanksF* fox (5/22/2000; 8:40:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 31004) Dow and nasduck Almost time for the rescue team. RED alert. USAGOLD (5/22/2000; 8:14:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 31003) Today's Market Report: Sideways Ahead of BOE Auction http://www.usagold.com/Order_Form.html 5/22/00 Indications Current Change Gold June Comex 274.60 nc Silver July Comex 5.04 +0.01 30 Yr TBond June CBOT 93~22 +0~13 Dollar Index June NYBOT 111.47 +0.12 Market Report (5/22/00): Gold was sideways in the early going -- a typical Monday. Steady, but subdued, activity in Asian and Europe markets ahead of the Bank of England auction tomorrow kept the yellow in a range overnight with the open in New York a follow through to already established trends. The volume of bids could be a determining factor to this week's trading. Standard Bank reports that short covering came into the market at about $272 in London trading taking the metal back to the $274 level. Reuters reports that the Swiss National Bank has sold 15.4 tons of gold since early May. Our sources tell us that the metal is being parceled out at the rate of about one ton per day. The Bank for International Settlements is handling the sale, and simply hitting the bids of the major gold dealers according to one trading source. It remains to be seen how the bulk of the sale will be handled though. Gold analysts have raised the question whether or not these sales are little more than gold loan bailouts of commercial bullion banks whose loans have gone sour. Bullion banks act as guarantors on gold loans and, if a loan should go bad on them, it falls on the bullion bank as the responsible counterparty to repay the loans. No matter where the gold is going -- which in practicality might be a moot point -- the Swiss have said repeatedly that the sales will be handled over the long term and in a way that won't disrupt the gold market. The World Gold Council issued its quarterly Gold Demand Trends report today. International demand stayed in the 800 ton range maintaining the record level recorded for the first quarter last year. WGC CEO,Haruko Fukuda, said that "The continued strength of worldwide demand for gold during the first quarter of this year encouraging for several reasons. It came in a period when physical demand often experiences some seasonal weakness, and it was maintained despite both price fluctuations during this period and the fact that the average price of $290 an ounce remained well above the 20-year lows reached last summer." It looks like the stock market might be in for another tough day. This week we have a pretty clean slate insofar as government reports go with Durable Orders and Personal Income being released on Friday raising the possibility of elevated inflation concerns entering the market towards the end of the week. That's it for today, fellow goldmeisters. Have a good day. See you back here tomorrow.Click above if you are interested in receiving an information packet that includes our monthly newsletter and just released Gold Almanac 2000 Cavan Man (5/22/2000; 7:53:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 31002) Swiss $ EU http://www.bloomberg.com Swiss Voters Agree To Bilateral Agreements With EU Black Blade (5/22/2000; 6:35:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 31001) Trail Guide - Good point. My question to MK and USA Gold and all, is this: Have you noticed any tightness in US physical supply yet? Are Gold and Platinum Eagles harder to come by? This should be interesting as the year progresses. It should also be noted that the US Mint will soon have to purchase Silver on the open market as official supplies are dwindling. If I get more time tonight, I hope to search out the US Mint production numbers. Obviously the markets haven't really accounted for tightness in physical supplies, or at least the very likely possibility that supplies are tightening - at least not YET! Gotta go and make FRNs now ;-)BB Trail Guide (5/22/2000; 6:25:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 31000) Comment Elwood (5/21/2000; 22:49:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 30990) Rugen (5/21/2000; 7:46:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 30940) Gold Leasing Jigsaw Puzzle Part 2.Hello Elwood and ALL!Elwood, your post was on target. I'll be giving a full comment on it in a day or two. Also will discuss the paper derivatives buildup at banks. How they are preparing to profit from a shutdown and crash in the whole dollar / gold / trading system. Indeed, here the largest financial players in the world are selling paper gold into the dirt while "paper gold bugs" are counseling investors to buy more gold substitutes! Guess which side understands Another's Thoughts the best (smile). Guess what form Another has his wealth in as all this plays out?Also:MK, there are few places on the internet (if any) that advocate physical metal investment as your company does. The investing universe is choked with brokers and such pushing 95% paper gold and 5% (or less) physical. By not offering any insight as to how that position could backfire on the vast majority of people, they create a one sided illusion of the future. Your site and company does a tremendous service for the public. People are not just buying gold from your operation, they are buying a "physical understanding" about metal doing it from a team of professionals that won't run away when the going gets tough! With that comes the strength for one to hold strong. Anyone dealing with CPM will profit far more in the future from their purchase, than you will profit from the sale today. If your promotion places more gold in the hands of people, then miners, savers and the entire gold industry benefit from it. Don't mind us, there is plenty to follow and talk about and lots of room here to do it in. We will fit our discussion above, below and on both sides of your offerings. Thank you for all your effortsTrail Guide Black Blade (5/22/2000; 6:21:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 30999) Morning Wakeup Call! (PGMs set to sky-rocket?) Source: Bridge News and Reuters Asia Precious Metals Review: Gold flat; profit-taking caps platinumBy Hiroyuki Fujiwara, BridgeNewsTokyo--May 22--Spot gold hovered at about U.S. $274 per ounce amid sluggish trade in Asia Monday. Most players stood on sidelines ahead of the U.K. Treasury's gold auction scheduled on Tuesday, dealers said. Meanwhile, profit-taking capped platinum after Friday's rally in the U.S. market, they said. Gold prices stayed range-bound between $270 and $275 in the past few days, while some expect the prices to recover after the U.K. auction, dealers said. Short-covering--buying from players who had sold--might boost gold prices if better result come out at Tuesday's auction, they said. However, others said the gold's market sentiment still remains weak. Black Blade: This says it all. No one wants to jump into the PM market ahead of the Brit auction. Interesting that PGMs are treading water after the GM announcement on Friday. Maybe today's action in the PGM markets might pick up on the US side of the pond as the news is digested and reality of the PGM shortage situation sinks in. Also we might want to watch PGM stocks such as Stillwater, Implats, and Amplats as they should serve as proxies for the PGM markets should interest develop later today and tomorrow. At least I have a few Koalas from Oz. I don't know how the US Mint situation on Pt eagles stands. The Mint is lining up ahead of other claimants pursuing action and recovery of PMs against Handy and Harmon which has filed chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. I'm not sure if they were involved with Pt blanks, but apparently they were involved with Ag blanks. The US Defense department also is pursuing recovery of Pt from scrap that was sent to Handy and Harmon for recovery. It was reported last month that the US Defense department (Strategic Stockpile) requested that the US Mint return the Pt that was sold/loaned(?). It looks to be as if physical PGMs are going to be very scarce soon. New production from US and SA mines aren't likely to be forth coming in the short-term. It could develop into an explosive supply and demand equation. Now with Pt likely to be used in auto catalysts (more Pt than Pd is required), along with new clean air standards, the price of Pt may even surpass that of Pd. The tougher standards will require a greater use of platinum group metals for catalytic converters. The change over could also put pressure on Rhodium as well since it is generally combined with Pt in the manufacture of auto catalysts.Nissan reviewing use of precious metalsBy Edwina GibbsTOKYO, May 22 (Reuters) - Japan's third-largest automaker Nissan Motor Co said on Monday it was reviewing the use of expensive precious metals after a recent surge in the price of palladium.The company also hinted it would cut its use of palladium in autocatalysts that clean exhaust fumes -- the metal's most common use.``We are reassessing the use of precious metals, of which prices have been skyrocketing lately,'' Nissan's Chief Operating Officer Carlos Ghosn told reporters. Ghosn said Nissan had a team working on a review of the use of precious metals and to consider substituting them with other materials.Some decisions had already been made, but the automaker needed time to check conclusions, Ghosn said. He declined to comment further, citing the need for confidentiality. Honda Motor Co said it had not yet decided whether it would change the use of precious metals. Toyota Motor Corp declined to comment. The comments came after General Motors Corp.(NYSE:GM - news) of the United States, the world's No 1 automaker, said last Friday it expects to cut palladium use by 30 percent by 2002 because of instability in the metal's supply and price. Purchasing director David Andres said the target would be achieved through improved technology and increased platinum use. The news boosted platinum prices to three-month highs on Friday in New York, strengthening expectations for increased use of the metal by automakers to clean exhaust fumes.On the Tokyo Commodity Exchange on Monday, benchmark April 2001 platinum futures jumped to a three-month high of 1,583 yen per gram. Platinum is the best catalyst for cleaning diesel engine emissions. Once favored in passenger cars, it has been displaced in recent years by more-efficient palladium because of tougher emissions laws. British precious metals refiner Johnson Matthey estimates carmakers last year used about 5.9 million ounces of palladium, about 63 percent of all the metal purchased in 1999, with a substantial amount accumulated in inventories. Due to robust demand and unstable supply from Russia, the world's largest supplier of the metal, palladium prices surged to a record high of more than $800 an ounce in February. Under a three-year restructuring plan unvailed last October, Nissan aims to reduce its purchasing costs by 20 percent by cutting off nearly half of its suppliers. Black Blade: It's follow the leader now. The pieces are now falling into place. The other Auto manufacturers will soon follow (they have no choice!). Canuck (5/22/2000; 5:40:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 30998) @ YGM Thank you very much.Incredible information; I will re-read and can I pose a couple questions your way afterwards? WAC (Wide Awake Club) (5/22/2000; 3:10:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 30997) Swiss Gold Deposit http://uk.biz.yahoo.com/000522/124/a7rte.html ZURICH, May 22 (Reuters) - The Swiss National Bank said on Monday its gold holdings and claims against gold lending operations had slipped by 136.6 million Swiss francs to 39,409.5 million francs in the reporting period to May 19.Sight deposits increased by 2.1 billion to 3.81 billion.(in millions of Swiss francs)Latest Change since May 10Domestic sight deposits 3,810.8 up 2,093.9Notes in circulation 30,651.7 down 270.8Government deposits 9,363.1 down 98.7Gold and gold lending 39,409.5 down 136.6Currency reserves 47,303.2 up 536.6Outstanding repo lending 16,402.7 up 1,904.0Swiss franc securities 4,880.5 up 13.6 Rugen (5/22/2000; 2:50:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 30996) RossL 30949 At the end of the chain apparently J.P Morgan. Solomon Weaver (5/22/2000; 0:05:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 30995) Leased at least Elwood (5/21/2000; 22:49:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 30990)Rugen (5/21/2000; 7:46:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 30940)Gold Leasing Jigsaw Puzzle Part 2.Central Banker leases to a Bullion Bank 1 tonne of gold. Instead of physical delivery the CB issues a gold certificate backed by its reserves. The tonnes and tonnes of leased gold that we've all been hearing about still sits in central bank vaults. It must be this way because it doesn't make sense for these central bankers to have delivered that much physical. -------Elwood, I would beg to differ slightly on the opening comments to your post. For a little more than the last ten years there has been a deficit of new gold vs. gold demand in the physical markets....certainly, a significant amount of gold has physically left vaults of Central Banks under lease terms.For comparison, look at how almost 1 billion ounces of silver have been removed and consumed to the point where there is literally almost no silver left in reserve (now 100-200 million ounces when 800 million was the lowest ever since 1950) and yet the price of silver has not risen to meet this shortfall. The situation in silver is much worse than gold in the sense that not only is there a deficit each year which consumes inventory, and not only is there an open short position which is close to one years new production, THERE IS ALMOST NO STANDING INVENTORY REMAINING. IF silver were to try and TAKE ON A MONETARY ROLE again, it is impossible because there is literally no silver left!!!!!!Using ONLY 100,000 TONS OF GOLD as the world's inventory this translates to 3 billion ounces of gold. And yet the world's silver inventory is officially about 200 million ounces or about 1/15th of the amount of gold. SILVER ABOVE THE GROUND IS MUCH MORE RARE THAN GOLD ABOVE THE GROUND!!!!And yet some people consider silver to have a monetary potential???? Silver is a valuable "just in time" product, and there are banks and people all over the world who believe they are still the "owners" of 100s of millions of ounces of silver. How could they all have "sold" at historically low prices over the last 10 years?This is because the system of leasing creates an artificial situation where "as much metal is available as needed at any price". And eventually this can mean "all metal sold at a very low price".Since the metal is loaned out as gold...and should be returned as gold, the lease transaction is price independant. The seller of the gold into the market is only hurt if the price of gold in the future rises faster than his rate of return on the funds of the sale (carry trade).This is the amazing "emporers chlothes" flavor of the story...the very fact that thousands of tons of gold and silver have been "sold" when the owners think they still own it, and the phenomenal stress this puts on the system when the "owners" want to have it back or sell it themselves, when understood fully, is so incredible that our reaction is "it doesn't make sense for these central bankers to have delivered that much physical."In the end it will come down to the banal truth that my dear friend has told me before..."oh well, it's only money".Poor old Solomon ViewYesterday's Discussion.
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