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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/21/2002 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Andúril (11/21/02; 23:42:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 90076) sector, what it means to stand and deliver Lunches last week with Peter Fisher. Your "name" came up not once! Imagine that. sector (11/21/02; 21:42:21MT - usagold.com msg#: 90075) Peter Fischer and the Wolf... ...of inflation He is the golden IMF bagman extraordinaire, the Mr. Fixit at Treasury, the go-to guy that bosses go to.Now he talks of TEOTWAWKI, Twenty Trillion debts and empty "Insurance Company" [America] promises.Does anyone now doubt what the Iraq War is about? Imagine Mr. Fischer's debt crushed Western World with $200/bbl oil on top of everthing else.The Western World as the petroleum slave of the ME as the Third World is a slave to the dollar. Iraq as Sudetenland...and Bush really believes he's on a just mission. He knows all about the gold fuse that is burning down as sure as gravity pulls. Fischer knows it too. He may be so pessimistic because it probably will be he and Greenspan's surviving acolytes who are charged to pick up the pieces of a wrecked economy with gold the new master.The War on Deflation. That will be the smokescreen.How will it all go down? A deval overnight as the Fed's talking head described today [1933 style]. New colored bills one tenth the dollar's former value? A slow bleed upward in gold with the "Transfer" of JPM to some other entity? Nationalizing the weakest banks? A closing of precious metals trading in London and New York? Draconian two-tier, Internal and external gold pricing with tariffs?There is no telling the shape, look or feel of the inflation to come. Just the end result. I'm pretty sure it will be Bob Woodward's Maestro that ushers in the next monetary era as I cannot fathom anyone taking the job as a newbie.+++++The boxes I flew to New Jersey's Teterboro airport in 1971 loaded with $350,000 in silver certificates were the collection of a smallish guy with balding hair. He didn't know where silver was going, he just wanted the metal instead of the "New" dollars.At that time a new Piper Cherokee 140 sold for $14,000 with decent nav equipment. Today, the same aircraft is $150,000. To be sure an investment in a solid utility at that time might have performed equally as well. IF everything fell into place for the company AND the country.Well, the bullion doesn't have to do anything to appreciate. The negative real interest rates from a shell-shuffling Fed and a morally challenged congress will take care of all that.As Russel said, forget timing. Forget picking the T* date. We aren't that good. Only the Fed knows the day. mikal (11/21/02; 21:21:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 90074) @The Canadian Good to hear different takes on market anomolies. Yours is a similar pattern in DOW others see. Parallels with historic bounces despite epochal differences in scale include pervasive worldwide blindness reinforced by official assurances, support and subterfuge."The Dow neckline plunge ends at 3000. Here the Dow/Au ratio revisits 1:1." This is an invitation for me, to again express a sometimes controversial POG outlook: This ratio will "visit" 1:1, if a "visit" means you meet someone going in the opposite direction on the highway. A Canadian (11/21/02; 20:44:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 90073) I LIKE THIS NUTTY DOW RALLY ! Because at around 9300 it tops the right shoulder of a monsterous Frankenstein head and shoulder begun in 98. The neckline plunge ends at about 3000. Here the Dow AU ratio revisits 1:1. And Uncle Al will no longer be the kiddies pal. Last chance to Exit paper and Enter the fortress I'd say! Damned this is fun. Sundeck (11/21/02; 20:27:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 90072) Pizz #90070 - Silvercollector Amen sourdough (11/21/02; 20:27:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 90071) Say, where is NewJersey? Bush is a mor on, So the Ca nad i ans say,Dump Green backs for Gold.And go our own way! Pizz (11/21/02; 20:22:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 90070) Silvercollector Expand your time frames, think of fundamentals rather than short term emotional swings.When we get our move, the tough decisions are when to sell, and that will be a personal decision you'll have to make based upon the thickness of your skin and your own personal finacial plan.Best advice I can give, though it may not totally ease your nerves - and if it's any consolation, we all have the same feelings whether we admit it or not.Keep the faith. . . . .Pizz Cytek (11/21/02; 20:01:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 90069) More Gold Russelling - INFLATE OR DIE Russell On Gold$20 trillion in the hole... Gold anyone?Richard RussellDow Theory Letters22 November, 2002Extracted from the 21 November, 2002 issue of Richard Russell's Dow Theory RemarksNovember 21, 2002 -- Yesterday I wrote about angry elephants and untrustworthy poisonous reptiles. Here's an interesting item for today. The US is roughly $20 trillion (that's trillion) in the hole, according to Peter Fisher, the Treasury's under-secretary for domestic finance. Said Mr. Fisher, "Think of the federal government as a gigantic insurance company with a sidesline business in national defense and homeland security. This particular insurance company, it turns out, has made personal promises to its policyholders that have a current value of $20 trillion or so in excess of the revenues it expects to receive. An insurance company with cash accounting is not really an insurance company at all," he added, "it's an accident waiting to happen."And this from the guy whose chief job is to sell US Treasury debt? What the devil is going on?Well, nothing that's very different. What Peter Fisher it telling us is that the whole Federal government's financial structure is unsustainable. Then how will it work out? I guess the government will either declare bankruptcy or print the nation out of its problems.Gold anyone?Well, let me put it this way, maybe not gold today or tomorrow. Ultimately our only protection, our single protection against a totally nutty, out-of-control Federal goverment is gold.Question -- if all the above is true, then why isn't gold going through the roof?Answer -- I guess because certain interests don't want it to -- because these same interests are shorting the hell out of gold.So my advice is -- hold your gold bullion. Hold your gold stocks. Don't time them. Don't worry about them. Store them away in the same manner that you'd put away you spouse's diamond ring or a Picasso painting. You're talking about real value.Back in 1950 I was walking along Madison Avenue and I stopped in at the Perls Art gallery. It was a quiet afternoon, and the amused owner asked me what "this young man" was doing. I told him I was "just looking, and well, I just loved art." The owner asked me whether I knew anything about Modigliani. I told him I particularly loved Modigliani. I knew that he was a poor Jew, that he started out as a street painter, and that he specialized in painting women. With that the owner smiled and told me that he had a Modigliani hidden away upstairs that he would like to show it to me.We climbed upstairs and sure enough, there was a full-length Modigliani painting of a very well-endowed nude lady. The owner took a deep breadth and told me that this painting would bring "at least $300,000 at auction," but he was so in love with the painting that he was holding it for a while.I whistled at that price. "If I had $300,000, I'd buy it," I told him.Now move up to the year 2002. A far less impressive Modigliani sold a few weeks ago at auction for, I think the price was $12 million. Lesson -- items of true value rise in price as the purchasing power of the dollar declines.And I have to ask myself, what happens when all these government promises start to come due? Answer -- the Federal reserve will move to print the Federal government out of bankruptcy. For years I've called this INFLATE or DIE. You're seeing it now, dear subscribers, you are seeing it now. Or if you have a better solution, call 'Sir' Alan G.More follows for subscribers. . .Richard Russell Gandalf the White (11/21/02; 19:52:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 90068) Sir Operative's requst ! <;-) Operative (11/21/02; 14:46:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 90050)===Sorry but the "Requests" line is a league long and the Orcs are attempting another revolt because the "you-four-e-ya" is causing irrational exhuberance again in the paper DOW and NASduck markets. What a game !! The BEST that I can do for POG rallies is guarantee that within a few weeks, and at the worst, within a couple of months ! Hold on to your PHYSICAL YELLOW and get as much more as you can ( CALL USAGOLD !! ) as the only way that it can go from here is "TO THE MOON, Alice" ! My magic chart says that we shall see the COMEX paper POG break $333. before we see $308. again ! AND IF IT does break $333. you know what happens to SIR Alan -- The QUEEN takes back his "dub" !!<;-) Mr Gresham (11/21/02; 19:38:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 90067) Subject and Object Become One (Watts Up?) Speaking of haiku,It just occurred to me (now)Gold is very Zen. The Victorian (11/21/02; 19:22:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 90066) Prices for gold coins at local auctions I'm wondering if any of you ever attend auctions at which coins are sold. My husband has noticed a trend lately, that old American and foreign coins (not rare coins) are routinely bringing 1 1/2 to 2 times their book price. We have put a few of our own coins through local antiques auctions (not strictly coin auctions) to see if it would "work for us" and we got the big prices. We are thinking about doing this once a month at various local auctions, as we can always buy more to replace our stash! Black Blade (11/21/02; 18:50:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 90065) Market Wrap Up - Puplava http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm Snippit:Only "The Market" Knows For SureIn the short-term the markets move on emotion. Fundamentals move the markets longer term. You can prognosticate, pontificate, illiterate all that you want and it is still meaningless. In the end, the market is going to do what it wants to do. If the market wants to party, it is going to party, which is what it looks like it wants to do. Fundamentals don't count at the moment. An example of this point is found in the economic and earnings information this past quarter as listed below:Consumer confidence drops to a 9 year low. Housing starts fall 11.4 percent in October. Trade deficit hits new record. Bankruptcies now at record levels. Durable goods fall 5.9 percent In September. Industrial output declines for three consecutive months, factory utilization falls to 75.2 percent. Auto sales drop sharply despite zero % loans, zero down payments and no payments for a month till the New Year. Retail sales fall 1.2 percent in October and are down over 1 percent in November. Unemployment rate rises to 5.7 percent and October job cut announcements increase by 150 percent. S&P reports core earnings for last 12 months ending Q2 were only $18.48. The market is selling at 50 times earnings. Also:As mentioned earlier, the markets want to have a party. Forget the news. It is only background noise at the moment. The market is simply doing what it wants to do and not what it is predicted to do. It is usually at these times that surprises tend to surface. If you want to trade it, do so carefully. Use only ETFs and with tight protective stops. If you are a bear, wait patiently, accumulate precious metals, strong foreign currencies, defense stocks, water, and food and necessities -- in other words, "things." Things have broken out into a new primary trend and very few investors see it. Black Blade: An interesting run down tonight. I have to agree with most of Puplava's take on the markets. It should be interesting to see if individual cash is moving out of cash accounts and into stocks/funds. The fundamentals for the markets are "grim" but Lemmings will follow most any Pied Piper over the cliff. Should provide the rest of us a lot of "entertainment". silvercollector (11/21/02; 18:45:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 90064) Thanks Waverider http://cnniw.yellowbrix.com/pages/cnniw/Story.nsp?story_id=34547366&ID=cnniw&scategory=Metals+%26+Minerals%3APrecious& Hope to hear more positive news in the near future. Hope you caught John Embry's latest. (Royal Bank)The link above is a study from the WGC provided by GFMS, nearly made me vomit. When is Chris Thompson going to take the 'bull by the horns'? Cavan Man (11/21/02; 18:32:07MT - usagold.com msg#: 90063) Put this on our tab (for those of US keeping score) Israel Eyes Up to $10B in U.S. Aid By Dan PerryAssociated Press WriterThursday, November 21, 2002; 7:40 PM JERUSALEM –– Israel will ask the United States for loan guarantees aimed at jump-strating its economy which has been damaged by two years of violence and the request will total between $8 billion and $10 billion, a senior government official said Thursday.The official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, told The Associated Press that the Finance and Defense ministries are finalizing the request and would forward it to the United States in the coming days. Cavan Man (11/21/02; 18:29:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 90062) Watching the POG......... .......reminds me how volatile and risky gold really is. Waverider (11/21/02; 18:04:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 90061) Silvercollector First close your eyes and take a deeeeeeeeep breathe....better, yes? Now, remember that GOLD is your financial ANCHOR which keeps your ship positioned where you alone have chosen. It is also your SAFE HARBOUR, and it is also your BALLAST, and it's also your COMPASS (or your GPS). So...when the westerly fiat winds blow and the DOW waves slap against your hull, KNOW that you are CAPTAIN and MASTER of your ship and that your ship is a solid ship. Look at tomorrows weather forcast, and the day after - the long term, and don't be alarmed at the apparent day-to-day market fluctuations. Nothing will change the inherent VALUE of GOLD, especially not the DOW. Read Black Blade's 90055 again. Hope this helps some, Cheers,Waverider silvercollector (11/21/02; 17:40:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 90060) Help please ! I see equities rising and rising with stealth lately and I get glum with gold.I read BB's 90055 and I get bullish.Can someone please throw out a couple tidbits to level my out my emotions.Thanks in advance.sc Aristotle (11/21/02; 16:45:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 90059) Life's perspective in 5-7-5 Falling Gold: bruised foot.Falling prices, swelling vaults.Limping jolly well ! ! !Gold. Get you some. --- Aristotle Operative (11/21/02; 16:21:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 90058) @ Sir Gresham "Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in. " -- Henry ThoreauThank you.For the past several years I have enjoyed making a couple gifts for very special friends for the Christmas season. My woodworking "shop" is simple but has provided many hours of pleasant diversion on rainy days or at times when I needed time to be left alone with thoughts. Two such gifts have been in the works for the past six months and now near completion. They both are shadow boxes. One for a friend who has spent a lifetime, now retired, in military duty for our country. The other for a younger brother who many years ago tried to teach me the art of fly fishing. I had envisioned a plaque at the bottom of the frame, but lacked the words to express ...thoughts. We, my bother and I, recently spent some time together and indeed time was a subject that came up. How fast the years have escaped us both. His shadow box is one filled with fishing items. I now have the perfect touch to finish this project. I end this story here because of some other words that you have once said that has remained with me regarding how emotions are so close to the heart. There was no way you could have known, but thank you.Funny how life works somedays. Anyway, will leave this subject before it turns into an entry into the Chicken Soup for the Goldbugs Soul. As to your request for the TP trick I must confess my spindles are old and in need of repair and I myself am a novice at such. However, do not despair for I hear tell of some true masters of the art of turning green into gold. They go by names of MK and George and reside at the castle of USAGOLD. Fare Thee Well, friend. Shermag (11/21/02; 16:12:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 90057) Haiku Ebb and flow of pricemasking now the truth of goldValue despite all Black Blade (11/21/02; 15:53:39MT - usagold.com msg#: 90056) Daschle, Gephardt ask Bush to intervene on jobless http://biz.yahoo.com/rf/021121/congress_unemployment_1.html Snippit:WASHINGTON, Nov 21 (Reuters) - With jobless benefits for hundreds of thousands of Americans expiring just after Christmas, congressional Democrats asked President George W. Bush on Thursday to help break a political impasse over extending the program. Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle and House of Representatives Democratic Leader Richard Gephardt wrote to Bush asking him to pressure his allies in the Republican-run House into passing a three-month extension of benefits that was approved by the Senate last week. But aides to House Republican leaders said there were no plans to accede to the Democrats' request. They noted that the House already has passed a five-week extension for workers who have exhausted their benefits. However, unless the two chambers agree to the same bill, there will be no extension, cutting off jobless benefits on Dec. 28 for an estimated 800,000 people. Since March, the program has given unemployed workers an extra 13 weeks of benefits beyond the normal 26 weeks.Black Blade: I guess they don't believe the BLS unemployment data either. Meanwhile many more have been dropped from the unemployment data and many have simply given up looking for jobs. Hmmm… Black Blade (11/21/02; 15:28:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 90055) Miners see gold price rising http://www.news24.com/News24/Finance/Markets/0,4186,2-8-21_1288337,00.html Snippit:Frankfurt - The outlook for the gold price in 2003 is bright, despite the sluggish global economy, as supplies become tighter, the heads of two of South Africa's largest gold miners said on Thursday. "I am bullish on gold prices," Bernard Swanepoel, the CEO of South Africa's Harmony Gold, the world's fifth largest gold miner, told Reuters on the sidelines of the Global Gold, Diamonds, and Precious Metals Forum. "Even if demand falls supply will be down more," he said. "New production is dropping and few new resources are coming through the pipeline," he added. "The easy gold mines are all gone." "I am looking for a sustained rise in the gold price over the next 12 months. If we reach $350 (an ounce) I would be happy," he said, adding gold had the potential to reach $375 an ounce.The outlook for gold prices is currently "the best in decades", said Ian Cockerill, president and CEO of Gold Fields, the world's fourth largest gold miner and South Africa's number two. "We are seeing greater discipline on the supply side and an inevitable reduction in supplies from new mines," he told Reuters. Asked if he thinks the upward trend in the gold price will continue into 2003 he said: "Yes, I do." This follows a continued reduction in world gold exploration expenditure between 1997 and 2000, although spending may have risen slightly in 2001, he said. "We are in uncertain economic times and gold benefits from economic uncertainty," he said. Cockerill said the stronger gold price was creating fresh demand as gold miners moved away from hedging or selling their output forward to lock in prices and protect themselves. "With rising gold prices many companies are de-hedging. This demand for gold (to cover hedging positions) is new demand for gold which helps push up the price," he said. "It appears there is still scope for de-hedging."Black Blade: Sounds like a page taken out of today's Daily Market Report. From my contacts in the mining industry the story is exactly the same. Everyone seems to be bullish on the prospect of higher gold prices because of declining exploration and production. Most companies have little if any exploration budget and those that do are only working to extend the life of existing projects. Any new proposed projects will take several years before the first gold is poured. One friend that I talked to this morning said that his company has told him and others to rethink past exploration and potential targets that they may know about from their past work over the years. It now appears that many gold producers are getting interested in getting "back into the game". Black Blade (11/21/02; 15:11:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 90054) Next Year No Better Than This, Say Finance Chiefs http://www.cfo.com/article/1,5309,8253,00.html?f=features Snippit:CFOs, CEOs, and the OECD don't see a recovery until 2004; finance chiefs say they'll keep on cutting. For those hoping the economy will turn around in 2003, here's some bad news. CFOs think next year will be just about as bad as the current model. Indeed, more than two-thirds of middle-market chief financial officers believe that in 2003, the economy either will stay flat, act erratically, or decline further. This according to an American Express survey of 485 middle-market CFOs. As a result, the finance executives see managing indirect costs as one of the biggest challenges to improving their overall financial health in the coming year, reports Amex.In a recent survey by the Business Roundtable, a majority of CEOs said they expect weak gross domestic product (GDP) growth, declining employment, and flat capital spending in 2003. "Our companies are in the business of creating jobs and contributing to economic growth, but we have grave concerns about our ability to do these things in this fragile economic environment," noted John T. Dillon, chairman of the Business Roundtable and CEO of International Paper. Further proof of the lousy economy: the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) reported in its November Economic Outlook that the U.S. economy would not pick up until 2004. The OECD is predicting a 2.6 percent GDP growth next year (up slightly from 2.3 percent in 2002), with a 3.6 percent gain in 2004.Black Blade: Quite a shift from the orgasmic ecstasy seen on the faces of financial media trolls of late. The intellect of gullible financial media trolls has always been in question. I look at the data and wonder how they come to such wild far-fetched conclusions. A lot has been made about the improvement in the unemployment data. Of course no one mentions the short week due to Veteran's Day, temporary hires for the holiday season at lower wages no less, and those who are dropped from the rolls as their benefits expire. Then there are the dubious data filters such as "seasonality" that inflate/deflate the true data. From my own experience I have seen how statistical data is routinely manipulated in order to achieve desired results. I see that this is more widespread throughout the entire system. At some point the "chickens will come home to roost". Reality will catch up to the fantasy. Mr Gresham (11/21/02; 15:07:25MT - usagold.com msg#: 90053) Sir Operative Yes, Au-some's WAS awesome. I pictured that one several times over (or was it from the Titanic movie, or something from Greek myth?)I have some of that worthless green TP, only it's out in the barn leftover from Y2k. Can ya do it for me?"Time is but the stream I go a-fishing in. " -- Henry Thoreau Black Blade (11/21/02; 14:54:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 90052) Consumers: It's the thought that counts http://money.cnn.com/2002/11/21/news/gift_spending/index.htm Americans expect to ratchet back on holiday spending amid a shaky economic recovery.Snippit:NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - More than twice as many Americans plan to spend less money this holiday shopping season as those who plan to increase their gift budgets, as consumers curtail spending amid a tenuous economic recovery, according to a published report Thursday. About 32 percent of Americans expect to spend less this holiday season and only 15 percent plan to spend more, according to the USA Today, citing an unreleased holiday shopping survey by Harris Interactive and commissioned by online retailer Amazon.com. Of the 1,000 Americans polled, 49 percent said they expect to spend the same amount this holiday season and 72 percent said they are looking for gift "bargains," the paper reported. Black Blade: What! No more spending into oblivion? Say it ain't so. Time to get another credit card or two, or maybe that third mortgage. Can it be that the Lemmings can't stomach more debt? Hmmm… goldquest (11/21/02; 14:47:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 90051) What is The Fed Trying to Tell Us? http://www.federalreserve.gov/boarddocs/speeches/2002/20021121/default.htm Another, "What If?" speech. Operative (11/21/02; 14:46:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 90050) Blame It On Haiku @ Gresham, It would appear at first glance that you caught me in error last evening on the thursday thing. <Smiling>However, in my defense sir I must blame this apparent error, at least in part, on the Haiku. My understanding of the Haiku is to concentrate your thoughts into three short lines so intensely that the reader develops a vivid mental picture of what you are describing. (Au-some's Hakiu actually caused me to shed tear as the golden braclet slipped into the waters, forever lost. sniff)Thus, while working on thursdays paperwork chores, I was concentrating so intensely that to me it was thursday. You know, kind of like wrapping Christmas presents a week before Christmas, I get the Christmas day spirit. Ok, if you do not buy that excuse, then try this one. Time is a physical property and thus can be manipulated or bent. I simply bent time to fit my needs by doing thursday's chores on wednesday. What? You question this ability of mine? Well kind sir, then you really will have doubts of my greatest feat to date but here goes. I spin worthless green toilet paper into golden coins. ( I knew you would not believe it.) Anyway, sure glad its friday, enjoy your weekend!@ Leigh and Slingshot, enjoyed your posts and thanks for making me think. As for why so many fail to grasp the reality of the world around us I have reached somewhat of a conclusion, at least as my understanding allows. Here goes.In todays society, as unbelievable as may seem, the greatest, most educated (?), wealthest (?) generation in this country's history, they still believe in myths. Myth that government cares, loves, and will always be there to protect them from all evil. Myth that green dollars really are money. Myth that because the public school building is large and modern in design, that learning takes place. Myth that because the local bank has marble floors and nice people in suits that they are solid. Myth that if a news channel ( I use the term news lightly here) that what is being described must be accurate and true. Until people begin to challenge these myths, I hold little hope for them. Perhaps a good primer to hand out to those who are blind, would be the material located at the link provided by Sundeck, "Grandfathers Economic Report". What I have read there so far provides a most sobering, chilling, review of our nation's current status. The trouble with myths is that they soon take on a "life" of thier own. The more people "belive", the larger the life. But maybe, after reviewing some facts thier eyes will begin to open. if just slightly, and they may begin the journey towards thinking for themselves, being responsible for, and seeing the myth for what it is, a lie. I once was lost, but now am found is my own story, so I wish you God's speed on your quest to inform.@ Gandalf, what happened today?? One little request I needed your help on. ( Bet the bugger is off soaking up the rays on some beach!) That's the trouble with Wizards, they are so ...so...independant!! ARrghh. (Perhaps the castle needs to begin training an apprentice wizard. lol) Pizz (11/21/02; 14:22:51MT - usagold.com msg#: 90049) Bank Musings Just had a little banking event happen to me personally that may tie in to Greenspan's babbling about the dispersion of risk throughout the system.For the past few years I've had banking relations with two banks. One, a old time savings and loan that is a huge housing lender and has a branch nearly next door, and one with a multinational finance company with no banking branches per se.Most of my transactions have been with the multinational because they offered me a very nice package - no fee checking, free OD protection except for interest on balances used, and a moderate line of credit at a fair rate.I've just been informed that they are no longer offering or extending their lines of credit, and this company deals with very credit worthy accounts. But they are still pushing credit cards and related items to the hilt.It would appear to me that this company just might be extremely worried - the reason - I am thinking that they are offloading their credit card "assts" as fast as they come in, but have pulled back their lines of credit because they have 100% exposure. Are they loaned out, or just cutting risk? I asked and got a pretty arrogant line of B.S. As a result, I am pulling out my assets from this institution, because I just am not comfortable with them any more, as I am sure others have.Since most of us still have to turn and burn (a little car lingo) fiat to survive, how do we pick a bank in the US right now? Wish someone would start up a bank with bullion in the basement close to home.My gut tells me banks with mortgages for assets will fare better than those with debt instraments, even with a perceived mortgage bubble that some see.I'm not overly worried with 50% of my liquidty in Au, but again, I was a bit shocked to see a major lender just quit lending to good customers - but just maybe they know a bit more than even us??? You just don't chop a big chunk of your lending business off without a darn good reason unless you already know your most credit worthy customers may not be able to pay it back. . . .Gold is still the best long term savings account in the world right now, and the best medium term disaster hedge IMHO. I may start working on some smaller than one ounce denominations to round out my stash. Still got a huge "change" gap between one ounce Au and a 10oz Ag bar.Pizz Andúril (11/21/02; 14:11:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 90048) Haiku: the message of gold Sit after supper,belly now filled. Or did youprefer the dollars? Waverider (11/21/02; 14:01:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 90047) VIP: DAILY GOLD MARKET REPORT http://www.usagold.com/DailyQuotes.html Thanks BB! Chris Powell (11/21/02; 13:40:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 90046) Meridian and MineWeb http://www.theminingweb.com/mineweb.htm Looks like Meridian and MineWeb are working thingsout, but if, as MineWeb says, it was withholdingpublication of its report pending review of the reportand comment by Meridian itself, and if only Meridianitself disclosed the draft report to anyone, it wouldseem that MineWeb was at least trying to be fairand that Meridian's legal threats were heavy-handed.As a Meridian shareholder, I'm pretty upset with howthe company has handled this. The company has made itself look like it had something terrible to hide when maybe the criticism at issue wasn't such a big deal in the first place.http://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B285256C780054AE7E?OpenDocumenthttp://www.mips1.net/MGGold.nsf/Current/4225685F0043D1B242256C78002F8A3A?OpenDocument sector (11/21/02; 13:22:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 90045) Sayonara time http://news.ft.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=FT.com/StoryFT/FullStory&c=StoryFT&cid=1035873499163&p=1012571727269 Published: November 21 2002 4:00 | Last Updated: November 21 2002 4:00Japan's top bankers are in a tizzy. Over the past few years, some of the world's biggest banks - ranked by assets - have been merrily merging with each other on the assumption that this would make them impregnable to market forces. Japan's big four banks had grown so big, the thinking went, that no government could afford to see them fail. Unfortunately, some may now be too big to save, or too bust to be worth saving in their current form.The credit agencies have been downgrading the banks' ratings. Bank shares are falling by the day. The original restructuring proposals of Heizo Takenaka, recently appointed head of the Financial Services Agency, were watered down by the banks' friends in the ruling Liberal Democratic party. But they still represent a serious threat to the weaker banks - talk of nationalisation fills the air. It would be easily accomplished if the government converted the preference shares received in its latest bail-outs into ordinary voting stock. That would give it technical control over some of the banks, allowing it to change management.It is always dangerous to forecast turning-points in Japan's economy. So often the country reaches the point and fails to turn. But the fate of the Takenaka plan is a crucial moment. Even its partial implementation would signal that Japan is determined to tackle the root causes of its economic problems; its failure would confirm that the unhealthy nexus between big finance and high politics remains unbroken.++++++++++++++++++++++++++Maybe this time it's for real…but don't count on it. The yen will weaken again and when it gets to 133 gold bugs will come out to dance as they did in Feb. 2002.+++++++++++++++++++++++@Caven Man Yep the "American Industrialized Economy" is a bit flat these days. When the Fed Chair suggests that J6P debt is good to help the economy and then waffles between befuddlement and amnesia we know that time is near for a very big break down in the major indexes.The consumer knows full well that a fuse is burning on their future. Ask the ladies at the gym. THEY know something's wrong.The gold war rages just out of sight. The big supplier of metal to sell is running low, low, low. Regression lines are converging. The vice tightens. Greenspan sounds more desperate each day...if that's possible with his confused speech writers.The President is stocking the SPR to its highest levels ever. IF he needed extra oil for his "War", the Saudis would ablige, as they did in the first Gulf War. American refineries don't want that stuff...it's loaded with salt from the domes...not too good for the steel piping. He's adding TANGIBLE trading resources to the US economy. He can't GET gold so he's settled for oil. But he needs a bunch more...BTW if gold breaks loose, can the US survive on $100 per barrel oil?...Even for six months? TownCrier (11/21/02; 12:26:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 90044) You can read about the Small Order Desk here... http://www.usagold.com/announcement/SmallOrderDesk.html This service element was mentioned in a previous ad. Here is the link to the S.O.D. for your convenience.----------Who owns gold? Gold owners are the people who own the professional practices, the businesses, the industries, the shops, and who are the working folk that make "Western civilization" operate on a day to day basis. In most cases you will find gold owners to be among its most reliable and efficient practitioners precisely because we understand that is not the government nor through Wall Street that will insure our futures and make our lives rewarding. We are the software engineers, doctors, lawyers, school teachers, small business owners, college professors, retirees, civil servants, tradesmen, laborers and capitalists alike -- all people who recognize the stability, permanence, utility, and simplicity of gold.Friendly help for first-time buyers and for routine acquisitions! Mr Gresham (11/21/02; 11:54:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 90043) Pizz You always nail the most likely answer. Yes, the big money exec ordered in the best CPA and the best programmer and put them in a room with their best computer and basically said, "Make this happen for me." An offer they couldn't refuse. And they all knew they'd be years ahead of anyone else calling any questions on it.And the Enron thingies behind the scenes: Today's Pizz questions, tomorrow's WSJ news. Same deal when the first MMF's "break the buck". Won't take much from that point on. That's the crack in the dike they'll rush ALL available sandbags to plug! USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/21/02; 11:35:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 90042) Santa may have elves, but we have Marie! http://www.usagold.com/jewelry/goldjewelry.html Let her help you decide on the perfect gift of gold to adorn your special ladies -- your beloved wife and mother of your children, your own mother, your daughter...This Christmas, avoid the crowded malls, jewelry store mark ups, and sales taxes. Call Marie instead! (ext. 106)1-(800) 869-5115Remember: It is your purchases from USAGOLD-Centennial that nourish this website.And don't forget Jonathan toiling away at the Small Order Desk. Call him (ext.110) for that handful of coins needed as stocking stuffers or to touch up the gaps in your portfolio.When it's a truckload you need, MK and George stand ready to offer consultation and broker your order. Mr Gresham (11/21/02; 11:35:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 90041) Pizz Anticipating reading you; but thoughts out of my head first...Anticipating a spike, or the righting of an investment imbalance, is not normal investment prudence, but: Spikes Happen. And sometimes the bet is a good one to take. A _very_ good one.When the other side has been indulging in unprecedented and observable craziness, it especially happens. And, it feels crazy to be watching, and anticipating the snap-back of the imbalance. Yes, it feels crazy, _especially_ in the most Conservative of investment choices. Physical 5000-year-old metal. It feels crazy -- because the "investment" climate (post-Biggest-Bubble-of-All-Time-) is still crazy -- but it is NOT crazy. It is merely being the mirror-image (and Physical Counter-part) of the Crazies. You may resemble them, yes, temporarily, even as you watch them. Even as it once felt crazy watching in disbelief the NASDAQ shoot to new heights. But you are NOT them, and soon enough, back in real "life time", you are outperforming them.But this is what we are doing, watching, day by day. Flat. Flat, flat. Wiggle, flat. Flat. Flat. Flat. Wiggle up, wiggle down. Flat. SPIKE!This is why FOA's emphasis on the political (even the part where he sees through the cycles -- "Hell, a few decades of cycles became so regular in our mind set that a whole industry was born, explaining why cycle investing works (smile). In time I came to understand that there really was a long term, singular move, evolving along as a political play at work here. ") move is paramount here.I wish I could see the political move, and see the forces and players, such that I could reason this for myself. From the little I've read of central banking, these are the pros who hold their cards closest to them and out of sight.I guess a longer-term look COULD call it a cycle. But larger than and outside of the last-20-years' gold cycle, it would have to be. Call it the USG debt default cycle? The Baby Boomers retirement surprise cycle? Or is this even the Fed-has-no-clothes-on cycle? The Central Banking fiat myth collapse cycle?FOA seemed to come down somewhere in between those last two. It would be interesting to hear at what level of events he would see even the Euros being unable to pull out of a fiat swan-dive. Having a transaction currency that is a World Peso (sorry, Sierra -- maybe there's a contrarian play there?) would be small consolation in an overall fiat devaluing.My thought is that ECB holding at 3.25 can signal the counter-message, and be doing a "pre-Volcker", regardless of what happens in their economies (which would mostly happen anyway), while setting the Euro up for its healthiest use as a transaction medium for the long term. Those IR points sure are loud messages shot through the financial world.Whew! Now, to read you... USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/21/02; 11:12:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 90040) Hard assets... Easy access! Don't be fooled by inflatable paper substitutes! http://www.usagold.com/ProductsPage.html
While the Administration's Treasury Department has fallen mum on the issue, the latest target rate cut (to 1.25%) by the Federal Reserve (with a bank lifeline discount rate at 0.75%!) tells the score loud and clear. In recent Congressional testimony Chairman Greenspan said that there is no "meaningful limit" to the Fed's power to inject money into the economy. And consider the dollar's legacy position as a reserve asset currently being held throughout the world. These are the things that sudden financial crisis and hyperinflations are made of.
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