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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/18/2002 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) GratefulForGold (11/18/02; 23:47:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 89864) "Investment Return" and "Saving" My dear Mr G,Because you've been so nice to me, my heart warms when I see you post!Question: How is the purchase/owning of gold classified? Initially, I looked upon it as something to invest in, with an expected "investment return." Now, I tend to look on it more as "saving." Just better than saving in fiat.I'm not sure I understood your entire post. I do know that I've grown up in the social security era. But I think my generation (maybe I'm too all-inclusive here) has more or less approached it as paying for our elders but not expecting it to be there when we retire. It's been a "write off" in my book. I'm glad to do my part in providing for those who came before me, but don't try to kid me that it'll be there when my time comes.Do you think our children or grandchildren will "save with a vengeance?" I don't have any children, hence no grandchildren (and therefore no expectation that I will be "taken care of"), but if I did, I would still have trouble fathoming the current or next generations "saving" for anything! IMO we have become an increasingly instant gratification people and the concept of saving or delayed gratification seems to fly in the face of reality. Maybe the most fiscally conservative ones will save, but that is not the norm. And if the economic downtrend continues, it seems to me there won't be anything left to save, even for the frugal!I am sort of viewing my PM "investment/saving" as a future life-line that I will probably end up throwing to loved ones who didn't pay attention. So, rather than "retirement," I envision ME taking care of THEM!That sure wreaks havoc with my preconceived notions of enjoying sunsets, somewhere, with someone special! Oh well, life really is what it is, isn't it?BTW, I like your grandfather's style...especially with the freedom a couple of "clink-clinks" in the pocket offers! mikal (11/18/02; 23:43:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 89863) @Mr Gresham Your grandfather IS a great role model. Like PM investors, standing tall by standing on your own two feet. Claiming your human franchise of health, harmony and happiness means seizing more self-responsibility and self-reliance through self-discovery and self-determination independent from bureaucratic, socialistic and fraudulent paternalizing, bullying and indoctrination. To emulate him is to reject poisonous enticements, disinformational blitzreigs and costly negative-reinforcement that sustains no balance in people, families or societies, but the cruel and rank "pension security" dinosaur. Mr Gresham (11/18/02; 22:30:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89862) Retirement http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/business/1664247 Good catches today, ElGordo -- especially the second half of the National Century piece this morning, showing all the different bookkeeping scams they pulled. A version of each of these is probably being played out at higher levels.The crucial one -- can we say mega-Leverage? -- are the retirement calculations that presumed 9% growth, forever, and then some negative years which then require more accelerated catchup rates -- never gonna happen.Then Amazon puts an offer in the inbox -- "What If Boomers Can't Retire? How to Build Real Security, Not Phantom Wealth ", by Thornton Parker. Hmmmm, I wonder what that's about??? I'll check it out when I'm done. So the link above, to the Houston Chronicle, shows some real SIMPLE calculations about working and retirement. Roughly that the ratio of retired years to working years implies a savings percentage you just gotta DO. Well, duhhhhh. But -- it beats all those Quicken spreadsheets that got everybody all juiced, and seduced, and then abandoned."Suppose we lived in a simple society with no investment returns. Suppose also that we worked until age 65 and then lived in retirement for 12.6 years. That was our life expectancy at age 65 when Social Security was created. "How much of our income would we have to save? "Easy. Working for 40 years, we'd have to put aside 24 percent of our income each year, leaving only 76 percent for consumption. At age 65 we'd have 12.6 years of consumption put aside. "Life expectancies, however, have been increasing. By 2000, expectancy at 65 was 17.6 years. By 2040 it's expected to be 20.6 years. "Without a return on investment, you'd need to save about 31 percent of income to provide 17.6 years of income. You'd need to save 34 percent to put aside 20.6 years of income."G: Then he loses it all, sorta, going into the "investment returns" outhouse and falling down the crapper. Why? Well, at least he gives us the option to look at the lower return savings requirements, and they stay at around the 25% mark for the 2% return. (At 7% real return, you only need to save 9% of earnings.)Why is "investment return" bogus thinking? Well, Social Security and other income transfer programs are schemes to get somebody else (young people) to support you out of their limited earnings. So is investment return, only it's cloaked in the transmission mechanism of profits earned from their (and your) daily spending. If you invest in the right businesses, those young'uns might just give you a little more support than if you pick the wrong ones.But they're still gonna keep a tight fist on their wallet, because by then, they'll have the shining example right in front of them of their frugal papa, who either (1) saved 25% all his life, and is just getting by in retirement, or (2) saved 10-20% but lost it all in the stock market, or (3) didn't even save 10% and is living in a cardboard box somewhere.They're going to save with a vengeance, looking for their own "investment return" perhaps, but mostly just to conserve principal. Me, I can't see more than 3% as being a long-term economically-justified "investment return", and that is for WISE investors, not the fleeceable flock we've just been watching.Getting young people to support you, one way or another, that's what (fiat) retirement's all about.Another way of looking at it: Saving is what YOU do and what YOU have control over. Investment return is very much under the influence of other people and hardly in your control at all. No wonder 90's America looked at the latter for its final fiat fantasia.Then there was my Grandfather, who made weekly office calls on his sales clients until he was 83. The city walking was good for him, the socializing with old friends even better, and the pride in earning his way immeasurable. That's my example, though having a few clink-clinks around would be agreeable, in case I want to ease off to two or three days a week. ElGordo (11/18/02; 19:46:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 89861) Nikkei chart to 1984 http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=^N225&d=c&k=c1&a=v&p=s&t=my&l=on&z=m&q=l How low will it go??? ElGordo (11/18/02; 19:45:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89860) Nikkei at 1984 level Tokyo, Nov. 19 (Bloomberg) -- Japanese stocks fell, driving the Topix index to an 18-year low. UFJ Holdings Inc. and Mizuho Holdings Inc. slid on concern that a government plan this month may set tougher standards for assessing banks' bad loans, leading the nation to seize control of them. Nippon Telegraph & Telephone Corp. dropped after the country's biggest telephone company reported that fiscal first- half sales declined for the first time in five decades as demand for fixed-line services slid. ``The market is nervous about the government's plan, which may result in the nationalization of banks and lower the value of their shares to zero,'' said Shuichi Hida, who helps manage $1.3 billion of assets at Sanyo Investment Trust Management Co. ``NTT is not considered to be a growth company anymore.'' ElGordo (11/18/02; 19:21:33MT - usagold.com msg#: 89859) Clash with al qaida in Riyadh http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/021118/2002111816.html Some 8 Saudi security men were wounded, many of them in critical health conditions on Saturday in Riyadh in a clashes with persons suspected to be supporters for Osama Bin Laden, one of them was wounded and then arrested, according to a source for the Saudi opposition and one eye witnessThe spokesman for the Islamic movement for reforms in Saudi Arabia, Saad al-Faqih, an opposition which takes London as a headquarters, said that the clash took place when the Saudi security forces tried to arrest a group of 50 armed "Jihad young men" of al-Qaida partisans who were meeting in a house in al-Shafaa quarters to the south of the capital. The other members of the group were able to flee and the police is mopping up the quarters to arrest them, according to the spokesman who added that he got his information from citizens.--------------European diplomatic sources in Beirut unveiled that the Qatari regime on October 13, night was exposed to a coupe attempt led by several members of the royal family, Islamic organizations and several army officers of Yemeni and Pakistani origins, but the interference of the American forces existed in al-Aides base was able foil this coupe attempt in which some 140 military and civilian men were arrested.The sources told the Lebanese al-Kifah al-Arabi daily in its yesterday's issue that the attempt involved officials who sympathy with the Islamists in Qatar and that Qatar accuses Saudi Arabia to be behind the failed coupe movement._______________Found these 2 stories at arabic news web site.Don't know how accurate this source is. Sundeck (11/18/02; 18:27:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 89858) UK Boardroom Gloom comments http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,5-484619,00.html Oops - link to the timesonline article ElGordo (11/18/02; 18:09:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89857) S Korea on credit card binge http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_box.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&box=ad_box_all&tag=financial&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APdkczBVCUy4gS29y Korean consumers, encouraged by fast growth, low interest rates and easily available credit cards, are borrowing beyond their means. Surging defaults are sapping banks' share prices, and investors say they may fuel a consumer-driven version of the 1997 corporate debt crisis that caused Korea's economy to collapse. ``There is legitimate concern because there's been a rather excessive buildup of household debt,'' said Julian Mayo, who helps manage $120 million of Asian assets, including Korean bank shares, at Regent Financial Services Ltd. in Hong Kong. ``This has caused some very big falls in the banking sector.'' South Korean household debt has surged to 73 percent of gross domestic product, surpassing Japan, from about half in 1999. The Bank of Korea says that's among the highest of any major economy except the U.S., where the rate is about 77 percent. Overdue credit-card debt at 17 Korean banks climbed to 11 percent of total loans in September -- twice the U.S. level -- from 7 percent last December. `Unprecedented' ``The rise of household debt in Korea is unprecedented by any standards,'' said Andy Xie, Morgan Stanley's chief economist for Asia, in a recent report. ``It's quite troublesome that household debt is rising much faster than GDP.'' Sundeck (11/18/02; 18:08:49MT - usagold.com msg#: 89856) Gloom in the UK Boardroom too - from The Times Online Snips:"Gloom in the boardroomby David Smith, the sunday times ANYBODY looking for a good example of Britain's two-tier economy need look no further than the Bank of England's latest inflation report. House prices, the Bank's big worry, have risen by between 25% and 30% in the past 12 months. They may be due for a crash, or they may carry on rising strongly for some time yet...."..."In some cases funds earmarked for investment projects were diverted to top up company pension schemes."..."Private-sector employment now appears to be falling. Figures last week showed overall employment down 36,000 in the July-September quarter, with full-time jobs down by 72,000. The government's broadest measure of unemployment is rising. Only the public sector is recruiting aggressively." ..."More generally, corporate gloom carries another big danger. Will consumers be made fearful by lay-offs (let alone the risk of a house-price crash) and take fright? Or will they hang on until the global business environment improves? Therein lies the greatest test to the economy over the next year. I am assuming consumers will keep spending. The risk is that they will stop."Sundeck:An interesting summary of business sentiment in the Mother Land.UK business investment down, funds used to top up pension schemes, employment falling, concerns about consumers throwing in the towel...Sound familiar?Sundeck ElGordo (11/18/02; 17:57:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 89855) Venezuela fighting intensifies CARACAS, Venezuela (Reuters) - Venezuelan National Guard troops firing tear gas and shotgun pellets skirmished with anti-government demonstrators in Caracas on Monday as the political conflict between leftist President Hugo Chavez and his foes flared into violence.Four people were wounded by shotgun pellets after the heavily-armed troops riding motorcycles and wearing gas masks swooped on anti-Chavez protesters who were blocking major highways in the east of the capital.The demonstrators were protesting against what they said was a military crackdown on his opponents by Chavez, a former paratrooper who was elected in 1998 and survived a military coup in April. He is resisting opposition pressure to step down and call an early referendum on his rule in the world's No. 5 oil exporter.After scattering to avoid the gas, which enveloped the highways and their backed-up lines of cars, the protesters regrouped and briefly set up barricades of burning tires and garbage across streets in eastern Caracas.Monday's clashes came after similar disturbances over the weekend following the government's decision on Saturday to take control of the Caracas city police from the capital's mayor, Alfredo Pena, an outspoken political foe of the president.The weekend takeover of the Caracas police, enforced by hundreds of heavily armed troops and armored vehicles, infuriated opposition leaders who said it greatly increased the likelihood that a threatened general strike could be called.They accused the Venezuelan leader, who staged a botched coup bid in 1992 six years before being elected, of running roughshod over the country's laws and constitution and of using military force to bolster his powers and quell opposition."We are protesting against the government's violation of human rights. ... We are creating chaos," one of Monday's protesters, 25-year-old Armando Morante, told Reuters. R Powell (11/18/02; 17:00:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 89854) sector Hard to sell what isn't there, I guess. I have a friend who wanted to order some silver eagle proof coins from the mint but was told, "Sorry, all gone" I refered him to M.K. but don't know if he called. The president did sign into law the bill authorizing a 10 million ounce purchase of silver to continue the coin program in silver. However, even though the supplier (Sunshine Mint Co.) is now producing the one ounce "rounds" needed to strike coins, I believe the government can't start buying until Jan. 1, 2003. The silver market is so oblivious to the supply and demand situation that we will probably have to actually use up the last of existing supply before the so-called analysts realize there's none left. ?? Rich CoBra(too) (11/18/02; 16:51:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 89853) The Eagle has Landed? ... @ Sector You don't sa; No Way! The Mint can't have run out of mints or Life Savers. I've always used to pick up a roll with my WSJ stepping off the Subway every morning.Don't tell me they're not selling these breathalizers anymore. They can't have run out in such a short period of time. It would be ... well almost, come to think of it ... as scandalous as my favorite street vendor on the corner of Broad and Pine would tell me he ran out of hot dogs for the rest of the month. Or, quelle horreur, my favorite downtown barkeep can't stand up to serve a straight Vodka-Martini -sans the twist - and of course the rocks - as some may find that rocks are better off if you can't even see a tarce of 'em in the gold nugget. Not even in the McChicken, Man!Interestingly - or not - I've tried to buy some eagles over here in old Central Europe ... and only got 30% filled! Buy Philharmonics as the Japanese ... and no shortages, or just a perceived abundance; Please ... yourself, though I want to be diversified in my physical holdings - as I love the Eagle, the Panda, the Maple, the Kruger and even any true and blue ounce of real value. - cb2 TownCrier (11/18/02; 16:21:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 89852) Comments from the latest WGC gold market overview http://www.usagold.com/wgc.html Trading has been reasonably lively, with good two-way interest. The physical market remains supportive, and contained the currency-induced weakness on Friday, when dollar prices tested the $317/ounce level. [O]ne dealer pointed out this morning (Monday 18th), there is now a regular pattern off "per-weekend insurance buying" which is generally tending to lead to some liquidation at the start of the week. ...reports that the US government could be preparing to mobilise up to a quarter of a million troops ...Merrill Lynch's latest fund manager survey has found that the majority are expecting global nominal GDP growth to be only 3% in the next twelve months, and that most would also prefer to see companies using cash flow to reduce debt rather than increase capital expenditure. Merrill concludes that if the emphasis continues to shift towards cost-cutting and capital expenditure reductions then this could lead to increasing unemployment, reductions in sales and potential deflation.[However, as noted earlier from his congressional testimony, "Dr. Greenspan ... countered those observers who foresee deflation, with the words "We are not close to a deflationary cliff," and that there is no "meaningful limit" to the Fed's power to inject money into the economy.] Click url for addtional excerpts of this week's commentary.R. sector (11/18/02; 15:54:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 89851) Zero American Eagle US Mint Sales for November http://www.usmint.gov/mint_programs/american_eagles/index.cfm?action=sales&year=2002 Silver Eagles at 75,000 ounces -- 92% below 2001 November levels.Reported before but very interesting never the less. In 2001 November totaled over 1 million ounces of silver eagle sales.Either someone has dropped the ball, the supply of metal really IS tight or this is part of a nifty, too-clever and crafty plan to suck buyers in for an ambush in Late December and January.An ambush where the Treasury fakes being out of metal then floods the market with coins while the COMEX hoods pile on the paper. Upon further review, I'm not about to ascribe to conspiracy that which can be explained by simple government clerk's punch-the-time clock stupidity.The idiots at the Mint just ran out.How I wish I were a fly on Mr. Peter Fischer's wall at Treasury. I can hear him now..." You did WHAT?!!!", "You ran out of GOLD?!!!", "Say that again ...slowly"."Do you know how long it TAKES to get new requisitions for physical through the BIS?", " Why it took 8 weeks for a lousy tonne for that bomb throwing radical CEO at Gold Corp, McEwen...less than 2 cubic feet...EIGHT WEEKS!!". Now you are telling me you RAN OUT of GOLD....AND Silver?!!"" Hello.....[On the phone now]..get me Ridge....Ridge...jeeze.....T-O-M RIDGE""Hi Tom,...say, would you mind taking the US Mint guys in with the INS and all the other dopes in the ATF and Coast Guard and DEA and all that?""Look at it this way, how can your new "Homeland Security" people manage to bribe illeagal immagrants, druggies and FBI informants unless you have TOTAL control of the money custody?""Yeah, Greenspan is on board too...that much more distance for the Treasury away from the Fed. So...what do you say?",.... "I knew you'd see it my way"."Oh...one last thing...any room down in Guantanamo for a real special mint guy...I know one who is arm-waving for a warm weather transfer." Black Blade (11/18/02; 15:32:24MT - usagold.com msg#: 89850) Smart money is on saving http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/321/business/Smart_money_is_on_saving+.shtml Snippit:The stock market collapse that began in March 2000 was like a nuclear explosion: Not only did it do plenty of initial damage, but the fallout is still seeping through the economy, spreading misery wherever it goes. For big American companies with traditional pension plans, the bull market that lasted from 1982 to 2000 was a godsend. Because their investments were growing so rapidly, many companies had to contribute little or nothing to their pension plans for years at a time. ''The market was doing all the heavy lifting for them,'' said Jan Hatzius, senior economist at Goldman Sachs.According to Hatzius, corporate America this year will contribute about $40 billion to defined benefit plans, the formal name for traditional pensions. Remarkably, that $40 billion is roughly the same amount companies contributed to their pensions in 1979. Over the same stretch, pension benefits - the money paid out each year to retirees - climbed sevenfold. The difference was made up by a stock market that rose at a double-digit clip.But those days are gone. The stock market has come down and few expect it to return to its old peak anytime soon. Using conservative assumptions, Hatzius estimates that businesses will have to boost their annual pension contributions from $40 billion to $120 billion to meet their obligations to retirees. If he is right, that means corporate America will have $80 billion a year less to spend on everything from giving raises to buying capital equipment.The bottom line for everyone here is pretty basic and pretty depressing. In the bull market years, no one had to save any money because the market did it for them. Now, both individuals and companies have to reacquire the saving habit. ''There are only two ways to build wealth,'' said Hatzius. ''You can earn returns on your assets or you can contribute fresh savings.'' More saving means less spending. Less spending means a less vibrant economy.Black Blade: Under funded pension plans are the next scandal to come to light. That will be the story for this next year. It will gain more coverage in light of all the corporate scandals where workers have seen their retirement dreams vaporize (i.e. Enron and WorldCon for example). In the end it really is up to the individual to look out for number one. The feast is over and now comes the famine. Pizz (11/18/02; 15:25:15MT - usagold.com msg#: 89849) Cash flow Just a brief note confirming the real time scramble for cash from overleveraged companies.The public overleveraged corportions that I deal with on a monthly basis (telecom, finance, insurnace, etc.) and most of private corporations related to our industry, are scrambling for cash like I have never seen in 30 years of business.I have companies that appear to be holding their books open a few extra days, mailing statements on the 5th that are due on the tenth and have you on cash by the 11th, with no regard for the normal processing of payables that the most creditworthy companies have normally paid by the 25th on a consistant basis (called 30 day open accounts).I have checks clearing our bank accounts an average of 2 days quicker, with a great many small to medium size companies sending runners to pick up checks and depositing them the same hour or day.Trying to get a small insurance settlement turns in to a 60 to 90 day marathon for items that were normally paid in 10 days, with minimal red tape.And the biggest headache has been the administrative staff reductions in nearly all companies. We have fewer and fewer admin people to handle all the problems associated with recessions and cash crunches. There are even some companies that to save a few extra bucks, have layed off their experienced people (who were paid more) leaving inexperienced people to handle recession related problems when they have no experience with recessions (or problems for that matter).It's been building for over a year, but the problems are getting to the extreme in a lot of areas.My feeling is something needs to give real quick, and it appears to me like snowballing bankrupsies over the next few months.Pizz Kev (11/18/02; 14:44:10MT - usagold.com msg#: 89848) Gold Dinar: An Economic and Strategic Response to Chaos http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=5556&TagID=2# Black Blade (11/18/02; 14:31:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 89847) Companies chisel away at workers' benefits http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2002-11-17-takeback_x.htm Snippit:Employers say the cuts are necessary because of mounting pension expenses, the dismal economy and soaring health care costs. But critics say companies are taking back too much. For the first time in four years, more workers saw their health insurance benefits reduced than increased. Seventeen percent of employees worked for a company that reduced health care benefits in 2002, compared with 7% in 2000, according to a study by the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation and the Health Research and Educational Trust. Those who still get coverage are paying more: Premiums jumped 12.7% this year, the largest increase in 12 years. Meanwhile, pay raises which are averaging less than 4% haven't been this paltry in nearly a decade. Employers' overall budget for pay raises will drop to a projected 3.8% in 2003 from 4.4% in 2001. Employment experts predict the seesawing of power will have employees emerging from this downturn more skeptical, more demoralized and less loyal to employers than before.Black Blade: So much for a "second half recovery". The "recovery" fairy tale is getting old when workers are losing benefits and getting laid off. As always, get out of debt and stay out of debt, stash enough emergency cash for several months expenses, accumulate Gold and Silver portfolio insurance, and start a storage program of nonperishable food and basic necessities. Black Blade (11/18/02; 13:36:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 89846) Analysis Finds Tape 'Almost Certainly' Bin Laden http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=ATNOR5H03KQ5SCRBAEOCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=1761281 Snippit:WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A U.S. intelligence analysis has concluded that an audio recording broadcast last week was almost certainly the voice of al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden and the tape was genuine, U.S. officials said on Monday. The audiotape broadcast on the Qatar-based al-Jazeera television channel praised attacks that took place in October, showing the speaker was alive as recently as late last month. It was the hardest evidence that the United States has had since December 2001 that bin Laden was alive. "Our intelligence experts do believe that the tape is genuine. It cannot be stated with 100 percent certainty. It is clear that the tape was made in the last several weeks," White House spokesman Scott McClellan said.Black Blade: So the hunt is on. Meanwhile al Qaeda appears to be back in business. TownCrier (11/18/02; 13:04:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 89844) A word to the wise... http://finance.canada.com/bin/story?StoryId=CpDxq0d8bmZCWmJa5&FQ From Saturday's Financial Post (CAN) on the words and deeds of sector notable John Ing, president of broker Maison Placements Canada Inc.----------Ing says he doesn't own any of the stocks he recommends to his institutional clients to avoid conflicts of interest.+"I prefer to buy gold bullion physically," he says, rather than own the certificates.-----(article at url)--------Consider Richard Russell's emphasis on "quiet accumulation" among "knowledgeable investors" before you buy completely into "conflicts of interest" as the only reason driving Ing's decision to buy metal instead of company stock.Ing knows what time it is.Time to call Centennial for your insider's piece of the pie. ching chingR. GratefulForGold (11/18/02; 13:01:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 89843) TownCrier #89842 Gold Accumulation Randy,"The public doesn't even know how or where to buy gold coins...."Dumb question: does USAGOLD advertise in any of the print media that mainstream investors read? I think those of us who are Internet users tend to forget that many top executives and professionals don't use the Internet as we do. (Since I don't read the print media myself, I can't answer this question). But, I sure would recommend a few well-placed ads for the next few months, if it's in the budget. Perhaps doing the Christmas/coin gift theme, if it's not too late. TownCrier (11/18/02; 12:44:22MT - usagold.com msg#: 89842) Gold in the accumulation phase I found these comments from Richard Russell's Dow Theory Letters to be of particular merit.Excerpts:"I've been having new thoughts about the gold situation. The new thoughts are that I don't think serious gold buyers are at all eager to see gold surge to new highs -- at least not at this time. No, I think gold is under serious, quiet ACCUMULATION, and the accumulators are actually hoping that gold takes it slow."[Randy's note: Can you hear the echoing "footsteps of giants" in this? I sure can. Now skipping ahead to Russell's concluding remarks...]"The points I am making is that those who buy gold here must be patient. This is the accumulation phase of the gold bull market."The funds have no gold shares. The public doesn't even know how or where to buy gold coins. Gold metal and gold shares are being bought by knowledgeable investors who have a vision of the future."Repeat: "The public doesn't even know how or where to buy gold coins...."The good news is that, unlike the public in general who will likely come up against a steep learning curve, you already know how and where to buy gold coins. Right here at USAGOLD -Centennial. We've been keeping you ahead of the curve for years and we count on your consideration for business along with your endorsements to friends and family. Thanks!R. Black Blade (11/18/02; 12:28:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 89841) Crude Oil Rises on Concern Iraq Will Impede Weapons Inspectors http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_box.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&box=ad_box_all&tag=financial&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APdkauBZiQ3J1ZGUg Snippit:New York, Nov. 18 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil rose for a third session on concern that Iraq will obstruct United Nations weapons inspectors, sparking a military conflict with the U.S. that might disrupt Persian Gulf oil shipments. UN inspectors have returned to Iraq for the first time in four years to search for biological, chemical and nuclear weapons. Traders are skeptical that Iraq will allow unfettered access to suspected weapons sites as required by a UN resolution passed earlier this month. Iraq and its Persian Gulf neighbors pump more than a quarter of global oil supplies. ``The concern is over Iraq and the potential for that situation to introduce instability into a key oil-producing region,'' said Jonathan Leak, senior vice president of risk management at World Fuel Services Corp. in Atlanta. ``What nobody knows is whether Saddam will torch his own oilfields or lob Scud missiles'' into neighboring countries. The U.S. has been building up its Strategic Petroleum Reserve, an emergency stockpile held in underground caverns for use in times of national emergency. The reserve rose to 592 million barrels last week, the highest level in its 25-year history, Energy Department figures showed. The amount is equal to 324 days worth of shipments from Persian Gulf countries, based on department figures for August imports. U.S. imports from the region dropped 31 percent in the year through August, mostly because of a decline from Iraq. The government wants to fill the reserve to its 700 million- barrel capacity to strengthen U.S. energy security. At the current pace of deliveries, the reserve will be full by 2005, the department said. Black Blade: Looks a lot like war preparations to me. What's the point of going to such lengths for nothing. Such a large build up in the SPR means that some may expect the war in Iraq and oil disruptions to last a long time. Europe is in the process of building up their strategic reserves as well. USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/18/02; 11:53:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 89840) Don't wait until the last minute... http://www.usagold.com/jewelry/goldjewelry.html Enjoy the satisfaction of a job well done. Call Marie today as your personal shopping assistant. The holidays made easy! Pick up the phone for helpful advice, and avoid jewelry store mark ups, sales taxes, and those crowded malls!1-800-869-5115Marie ext. 106And don't forget Jonathan at the Small Order Desk for a wide assortment of bullion and historic gold coins, perfect for gift-giving or for filling the gaps in your own portfolio.1-800-869-5115Jonathan ext. 110 a nation of one (11/18/02; 11:20:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 89839) Re: Hipplebeck (11/18/02; 08:38:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 89828) You say: "Prices are manipulated through the use of derivatives. You can control the perception of plenty for awhile in the face of an impending shortfall, but no amount of derivative structure can fix the problem when the shortfall actually arrives. Derivative notational values must continually expand as the crises gets closer."You have hit the nail right on the head. a nation of one (11/18/02; 11:14:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89838) Re: Black Blade (11/18/02; 03:09:35MT - usagold.com msg#: 89821) You say: "...politicians are chosen from the lower rungs of the evolutionary ladder."This phrase should ring loudly throughout eternity. goldfool (11/18/02; 11:08:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89837) A poster suitable for framing http://www.markpoyser.com/diagrams.htm On the lighter side. a nation of one (11/18/02; 11:04:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89836) sip sip http://quotes.ino.com/chart/?s=FOREX_XAUUSDO&v=i&w=15&t=c&a=2 Gold seems to be being bought up on minor dips. I think that means it is strong. Black Blade (11/18/02; 10:56:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 89835) Re: Hoople - CNBC The very rare few times that there is a guest who is bearish, that is the only time I see the CNBC "journalists" really get the hairs up on the back of their necks. They tend to deride and intimidate the guest. The usual tactic is to barage the guest and to not let him answer before they cut him off. I have seen them pull this stunt with David Tice of Prudent Bear Fund for example. And God forbid anyone even mention Gold. NBC is nothing more than a non-stop commercial for Wall Street, but the viewers are just getting fed up and are changing the station. I haven't watched CNBC for about three weeks now. In fact I only watch webfn or Bloomberg online occasionally while surfing and that's only because they have financial info I can click on for immediate access to data and it's free. But I have had it as far as CNBC and CNNfn are concerned. That carnival barker mentality was raising my blood pressure. Cheers!- Black Blade goldfool (11/18/02; 10:53:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 89834) Black Blade - CNBC Bartiromo Quote Generator http://www.markpoyser.com/bartiromotalks/qg.htm Looking at the numbers, the Dow would be up today if we just took out MSFT and the stocks that were down. In other news, a guy who thinks Graham and Dodd is obsolete begged us to say on-air that there will be another speech by Greenspan praising Service Corp International. Coming up next, why the BLS is justified in tweaking the CPI formulas. USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/18/02; 10:38:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 89833) Why gold? Why now? (And how to get it...) http://www.usagold.com/cpm/aboutcpm.html
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