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Welcome to the USAGOLD Gold Discussion Archives. Looking to buy gold coins and bullion? The archives of this gold discussion forum are a treasure trove of information to educate investors about protecting their wealth through portfolio diversification with private gold ownership. The discussion forum also covers the wider issues of the past, present, and future role of gold in international monetary policy and the dynamics of the modern gold markets. To join the debate request a discussion password here.

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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/12/2002
All times are U.S. Mountain Time

(Yesterday's Discussion.)

Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 23:44:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 89487)
R Powell: What would entice investment money into gold ?(post 89470)

Well Mr. Powell, nothing that WE can offer will entice investment money into gold. There is one thing that will, and that is not necessarily the prospect of profits.

It is the prospect of "OK-ness". We all know: it is obscene to talk of gold among the CFO's of corporations. It is bad manners. It is not done. It is not "Politically correct".

So, what these little sheep - self-important sheep - need is a SANCTION, they need an approval, and since so many of us have become slaves, they look to Caesar for approval before saying anything.

(His Lordship asks: "What time is it?"
A lackey replies: "Any time you say, Sire.")

So what we would need, would be for ONE government to take a stand and declare that in his domains, gold is money. Phrase it any way you like - that has to be the substance of the message.

When that is done, the show is over. The Islamics? Who is to say, maybe these people who are so detested by so many numbers of Americans, are the people who will stand up for basic human freedom, represented by gold in the hands of the people.

This is a sort of "The Emperor is naked" statement. The consequences would be fatal to the world's fiat system.

I am surprised that Saddam Hussein has not mobilized this weapon, more powerful by far than all other WMD; it would bring the USA to its knees. As Willie pointed out in his excellent essay (at 321gold) on "25 reasons why gold will rise" , the dollar is the strategic weak point in the US armor.

And Von Klausewitz stated that in war, once must concentrate all forces on the one vital point where victory will be decisive. Where else but the monetary front, in our day?

Sierra


Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 23:22:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 89486)
Roger the Shrubber: origin of the term "Blue Blood"

The origin of the term "blue blooded" has nothing to do with silver, so far as I know.

The way I heerd it, after the Moors were driven out of Spain, there was a need for Spaniards who had not intermarried with Moors to prove their "purity of blood".

One of the tests was "blue blood"; by showing their wrists as white with blue veins, the Spanish gave evidence of no mixture with Moorish stock, which would have given them a darker skin through which the blue veins were not apparent.

So I have heard tell.

Sierra


Pizz (11/12/02; 23:01:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 89485)
Mikal
Got way over half my stash in Au also.

Just trying to do a little due diligence for the poor mans gold.

Kind of hard for the 50 buck a month savings crowd to buy the golden stuff, and saving up for a few months to buy an ouce or two, when they can get 10 oz of Ag pretty quickly seems to make sense, at least to me, right now. Hate to see anyone who wants to get on the PM train miss it due preferance issues and a conflicting budget.

More potential for the spike up right now than I have ever seen.

--------------------------

Can anyone else ever remember when stocks, bonds, gold, commodities and a host of other things are all sitting at critical technical levels as they appear to be right now?

Lines are drawn and the bets are on the table, don't like to think I'm gamblin', but war is in the air, physically and financially.

Just hope we've got a few winners left when the dust settles.

Pizz



mikal (11/12/02; 22:43:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 89484)
@ElGordo
You may be right about Saddam. But maybe the antidote story is disinformation. A Reuters story stating that "the NY Times cited a US government official" does not pass the smell test.

ElGordo (11/12/02; 22:34:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 89483)
Saddam is trapped
@Cometose- Lets say Saddam has a chemical program and
chemical weapons. If he lets the inspectors go anywhere they
want, whenever they want, they will find evidence.

Can he now come out and say I'm sorry I lied. I had this stuff
all along? Please forgive me and you are welcome to take all
my weapons?

He will probably let the inspectors in but they will report
problems right away. Saddam has a choice.

1)Admit he has weapons and hand them over or,

2)sooner or later fight a war to survive.

Why else would he be trying to get huge dosages of anti-chemical
agents for his troops. He might be planning to use chemicals.

Saddam can't come clean, he's got the weapons program in chemicals for sure. He knows they can find evidence.

I see war almost unavoidable.



mikal (11/12/02; 22:15:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 89482)
@Pizz
Ok, so Ag's gotta lotta upside. But I'm putting at least half my chips in where the masses AND the MASS are at. Who are they? First, the masses are the billions in Asia and the Middle East,as well as Europe and elsewhere with the old traditions plus purchasing power to buy gold for PRIVATE SAVINGS. The MASS on the other hand are the CB's, Hung Fat (no pun intended) and Dr. No steadily accumulating Au leased, sold, mined and otherwise distributed for many years. Why else would the Euro be quarterly marked to market, the market price of gold? Strong hands and deep pockets want it, get it, and will get more. So will Susie Chang, Bobbie Chandra, and Billie Chandelier.
I agree Mexico, the US, etc. can utilize Ag innovatively and progressively, just as with Au. May all make hay while the sun is shining, making the most of a limited resource. Regards


Roger The Shrubber (11/12/02; 21:50:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 89481)
Cavan Man
Greetings, I've been tending to my shrubberies and relocating;consequently, I have been without internet for over five weeks. USA Gold Forum withdraw is worse than spending the night at Castle Anthrax, I think.
I read yesterday that JPM {"run away, run away!"} may have made a 180 on gold. That's really quite amazing. Does that mean they haven't retreated to the Castle of Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ?
As far as the health benefits of ingesting micro amounts of silver go, the origin of the term "blue blood" has to do with exactly that. The wealthy aristocracy could afford to eat with real silverware, and over time would accumulate enough silver to give their blood a blue tinge. It's no wonder that many of them were able to survive the diseases and plagues of the day. So give Centennial Precious Metals a call today, and then go to your local health food store. Silver, it's more than just food for thought.
Have you hugged a shrubber today ? Roger


steady (11/12/02; 21:44:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 89480)
winter . ants / grasshoppers/ gold!
http://www.umass.edu/aesop/ant/
with the harvest moon a few weeks behind us now and daylight becoming scarce its time to look back at our summer preperations> where u a grasshoper this summer hoping for lower gold prices? did u stock your cubbards up? are you an ant or a grasshoper?
like the gold that was passed down to you and like the gold u are going to pass down ... fables amd myths survive the test of time like gold becuase they are valuable and have intrinsic values to them. take a min to review this time tested fable. substitue gold for corn if u want . the message is clear. prepare for the worst. hope for the best. live small, free gold ..open the mint! gold and silver honest money for honest people!


Pizz (11/12/02; 21:32:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 89479)
R Powell
Thanks for you lease rate interpretation. Logical and makes sense.

Glad you brought up the PM investment question, or the lack there of, question cause it gives me a belated reason to post my response to the "is buying gold now like buying at 35 bucks in the late sixties" with the guess I didn't have time to make cause I waited til the last minute.

My basic answer is yes, because the fear investment premium for both gold and silver and the price appreciation will be similar, possibly compressed in time (more will happen quicker because of technology, news flows, etc., or it may cover the same time frames, 10 + years or so, with an upside commensurate with today's technology, the narrowness of the markets, and the scarcity of the physical to the tons of fiat (an internet style golden bubble ride for a thin market??? Wow!! and Possible)

Now, here's where you and I tend to get a bit afoul with the gold only advocates when it comes to silver. But as I see it, one of the main differences between PM's now and in the sixties is that the investment money has had so many different ways to invest, and as brainwashed as the sheeple are, when this thing breaks, gold is going to be monitarily, flat out of reach for 95% or so of the public. The hot money is going to push it up hard and fast, right along with PM stocks.

Even silver will be tough for the public to buy, but even at a 16 to one ratio, by the time 10 or 20 percent of the public finally reacts ( and some always will), economics 101 tells me silver is going to get the bulk of Joe Sixpacks limited fiat. 800 gold or 50 silver, or 1 share of GG with a couple hundred bucks in your pocket - what do you buy if you're finally scared??? That's a no-brainer in my book.

And another thing that many are missing, with the advent of gold back currencies getting in the news, just what does anyone think South America and Mexico will use if it comes down to "a backing currencies with PM's to save our butts mentality" - my guess is silver.

I just don't think we're going to get a nice smooth rise up to where the public is going to be able to come to their senses and have the oportunity to buy anything PM related anywhere near these lows. If I can't buy the Caddy, guess I go for the Escort cause I got to get out of Dodge.

You've got company in the Lagoon and I'm probably a bit uglier (smile).

Pizz


Cometose (11/12/02; 21:31:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 89478)
War in Iraq
Friday we find out whether we have war or not....
Based on Sadaam's answer, we will know whether this war was or was not going to be bullish for the stock market....

Everything that the Arab states and opec have worked toward up until now will be undermined if Sadaam ( who it is said may be a madman ) acts the part of a loose cannon and begs on a war on his own soil.....

I believe that all the Arab States are united and on Friday we will hear the united Islamic front speak ....to their best self interest. The threat of war will destablize everything their control of the flow of oil. It will remove their leverage. The U S is the great Satan....They will rather have the U N conducting inspections in Iraq than have The west dividing up IRAQI OIL... and undermining OPEC.
and the influence OPEC has gained in their successful manipulation of the price of oil.

Sadaam will bow to the U N , and the Stock Market will again plummet, with the war premium in oil and gold (temporarily).

The Russians latest is quite interesting and brings more intrique to the table ..... Perhaps ,China will also decide to come to the party. I think the Russians already know : it's going to peace ....they're just playing along and making themselves heard...Of course , they may have decided they they want the oil for themselves; or they just want to help Iraq protect its interests. The Russian economy thrives in wartime...These little moves are how wars escalate into wars...

I will be very much suprised if Sadaam decides to War with the US ....It will mean that he's ready to go down with the ship....which stance will no doubt bring with it some huge suprises....

It will be something the stock markets welcome in the assumption of a US win and the winner takes the spoils (breaths new life into FEDWORLDDOMINATION plan)..bearish for gold and oil in the long run....Mad man or NOt ; If Sadaam (and the arab world) plays into the hands of the US in a theatre of war ...it will show an uncharachteristic loss of intelligence and strategy vaccum and disconnect from the recent history of well executed moves based on consensus and unity....inside OPEC...



goldquest (11/12/02; 21:15:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 89477)
Thrilling!
To be a runner up in the contest! My heartfelt thanks to MK and the USAGOLD team! A special thanks to Sir Gandalf for piloting another smooth, fun contest! Thanks also to all of the folks that contribute to this forum. Your input is what makes this the best GOLD site on the net!

mikal (11/12/02; 20:58:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 89476)
@Downunder
Pity the markets are rigged and manipulated, and now tapped...Und vee have Omeland Seecuritee tooo, Yah? Vee can hear your trades ven you call zee broker, Vee ar a deezgraze to zee Faderland.

ElGordo (11/12/02; 20:46:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 89475)
Saddam may be planning to use nerve gas
NEW YORK (Reuters) - Iraq has ordered large amounts of a drug that can be used to counter the effects of nerve gas, The New York Times reported on Tuesday, citing Bush administration officials.

The orders, which far surpassed amounts needed for normal hospital use, were mainly from suppliers in Turkey, which is being pressed to stop the sales and has indicated in talks with the State Department that it was willing to review the matter, the officials told the Times.

"If the Iraqis were going to use nerve agents," the newspaper quoted one official as saying, "they would want to take steps to protect their own soldiers, if not their population. This is something that U.S. intelligence is mindful of and very concerned about."

Iraq has ordered a million doses of the drug, atropine, and the 7-inch autoinjectors that inject it into a person's leg, the officials told the newspaper. One official also told the Times Iraq had also placed orders for another antidote for chemical weapons, obidoxime chloride.

Atropine is commonly used in hospitals around the world to resuscitate patients who have had heart attacks.
The bulk purchases of autoinjectors and atropine, however, have raised concerns among chemical weapons experts, intelligence analysts and senior White House officials, who argue that atropine to counter heart attacks is normally given intravenously and in much smaller doses, the newspaper said.
_________
@Golden Bear-Perhaps we will see more silver used for
medicine and water purification.


Golden Bear (11/12/02; 20:39:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 89474)
ElGordo (msg#: 89459)
"...This post is about new uses for silver in medicine..."

Hi ElGordo,

silver has been used as colloidal silver - a great antibacterial by alternative medicine practitioners for about 100 years.

And the FDA has banned anyone from advertising its antibacterial qualities on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies.

Thanks for the link.


DOWNUNDER (11/12/02; 20:34:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 89472)
ARE "THEY" SHORTING NEWMONT (NEM) ?
http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?siteid=mktw&dist=mktwmore&guid=%7B31E6A5C7%2DF042%2D4632%2DAAB4%2D067E793F5225%7D
It was interesting (dissapointing)to see NEM smashed down again today --It's been hammered now for some time & personally I don't think it's a coincidence.I bought on 22/3/02 & its now just over 8% lower! Below is an extract from Thom Calanda's Market Watch re the recent New Orleans Investment Conference.(See link above)
---------------------------------------------------------
SNIP:
Unemployment will be a vicious problem," Russell said. "Before next year is out, we'll see another 20 percent drop in the dollar. China is at economic war with the West. I wouldn't be surprised if it backs (its currency) with gold."

As for specific recommendations, he pointed to Newmont Mining (NEM: news, chart, profile), the world's largest gold producer, as the "bellwether" investment in troubled fiscal times. Russell said the 18 gold mining stocks he follows demonstrated strong accumulation this week as measured by advancing prices on rising volume
-----------------------------------------------------------
Seems to me the PTB are actively shorting selected Gold Stocks--- anyone else have thoughts on this?


ElGordo (11/12/02; 20:31:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 89471)
Bin Laden calls Bush "Pharaoh of the Century"
http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5480020%255E2,00.html
AMERICAN officials believe the voice of Osama bin Laden is on a tape that threatens Australia and hails the Bali bombings.
US officials say a preliminary analysis of the tape, which was broadcast by Al-Jazeera TV, had found it to be genuine.

"It's him," two senior officials from different agencies told NBC News as the Central Intelligence Agency continued to analyse the recording.

A third official, who also spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity, said: "We believe it could well be him and there is no apparent reason to suggest that it's not him."

If formally confirmed as bin Laden's voice, the tape would be the first indication since the beginning of the year that the leader of the al-Qaeda terrorist network, blamed for the September 11 attacks, is still alive.

In the tape, the speaker hailed the Bali bombing, which occurred one month ago, and threatened the United States and its allies, including Australia.

He lashed out at US President George W. Bush, calling him the "pharaoh of the century," and at his key allies, whom he called "murderers."

"As you assassinate, so will you be (assassinated), and as you bomb so will you likewise be," the tape said, against the background of a photograph of the Al-Qaeda terror network's leader, in turban and khaki jacket, a rifle at his side.

In the message to "the peoples of countries allied to the United States," he warned them against the "alliance between their governments and the United States to attack us in Afghanistan."

He cited "Britain, France, Italy, Canada, Germany and Australia."

"What has happened since the conquests of New York and Washington up until now - like the operations on Germans in Tunisia, the explosion of the French tanker in Yemen, on the French in Karachi, the operations against the (US) Marines in Failaka (Kuwait), on Australians and Britons in the explosions in Bali, as well as the recent hostage-taking in Moscow and other operations here and there - were nothing but the response of Muslims eager to defend their religion and respond to the order of God and their Prophet.


R Powell (11/12/02; 20:15:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 89470)
Sierra (89460)
Yes, sir, and so nicely said!

"What trouble thinking is"

So many expend so much thought energy to avoid having to think or does the idea of gold elude them entirely?
Perhaps we should set aside the search for a possible trigger for POG and bluntly ask with all possible conniving, "What would entice (persuade) the investment money of the world into gold and silver?" Please note that in keeping with the total lack of ethics implicit in this nefarious endeavor, any and all suggestions need not reflect any truth. Hard to do? Not at all. Have we learned nothing from the stock promoters, brokers and shysters of this last decade?
Any takers?
Rich


R Powell (11/12/02; 19:57:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89469)
Pizz
Lease rates
I too saw the silver lease rates up at Kitco but, having been fooled more than once by Bart's barometers, I double checked at the desk. No confirmation.
As to last January when there was a confirmed and lengthy spike in silver rates, it was reported as a physical shortage in the London markets. I was told by a trader at Metalor than 12 million ounces from "private" sources were found and delivered to ease the situation but the point is, I believe, that there was a legitimate shortage (as opposed to a paper squeeze). GFMS has lowered this year's (2002) estimated deficit from 120 million to only 50 million ounces. I had questioned their original estimate as it was given with the assumption that the cheerleaders of economic recovery were going to be proven correct. But, I also don't think GFMS has considered less silver by-product production caused by this same economic slowdown, especially much lower silver supply by way of copper mining cutbacks. I'll stick with my 80 million ounce deficit guess for 2002. So, the deficit continues and we wait for some event to implement price rationing. Silver does not trade on supply and demand considerations YET but she will be forced to eventually. Supply and demand forces are inherently stronger (imho) than technical analysis.
I think silver lease rate hikes are caused by real physical shortages whereas there is still enough physical gold being filtered into physical demand so that gold lease rate spikes have proven, in the past, to be temporary. I do NOT expect this to be so in the future. Rumors of physical shortages have been more common recently with both metals. I'm still as puzzled as many are by the lack of speculative investment in both metals. These are not large markets so a little interest (speculative money) will go a long way.
I sense stronger support on the downturns for gold than silver but, again, see silver trading only on technicals. This fact has created the tremendous opportunity. The fundamentals and potential leveraged gains keep me leaning toward silver but both should go. Indeed, my guess is than almost all commodity prices will appreciate due to the past monetary policies of that much talked about world reserve currency but I remember your warnings of potential liquidity shortages. But again, these markets are so small compared to stocks or bonds, so, so little is needed, no? Eventually we win, as long as we can stay solvent longer than the prices stay irrational. But, market prices reflect the total consensus opinion of all market players, not any "true value" however measured. This is why Livermore said that "markets are never wrong, opinions are." This fact is a good reason why physical is the surest bet but, like yourself, along with physical, I have *investments* in paper.
I'm still looking for the fly in the ointment in the silver outlook and still enjoying ever minute of watching, learning and anticipating. Not to downplay any of the implications of it's outcome (life and liberty itself) but...What a spectacular game it is !!
BTW, I missed a silver coin by one dime. Perhaps I should have tried for the gold??
Rich


makcumka (11/12/02; 19:46:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89468)
@ Cavan Man
Love that movie.

If you haven't already, go get a DVD. Hillarious. You can watch it in Lego, Japanese, and in english with English subtitles.

If I could only figure out the air speed velocity of an African swallow...


Waverider (11/12/02; 19:34:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89467)
Congratulations
...to all the lucky winners who won today - Skydog, Cytek, Goldenpeace, Goldquest and TimeForGold. A THANK YOU to MK for hosting the competition and for your continued generosity, and a special THANK YOU to our Wizard - Sir Gandalf for his humor, astuteness to contest entries at all hours of the day and night, and for making this contest SOOOOoooo much fun! Keep well Good Wizard and feel free to give Spike a whiff of Eau de Feline once in awhile - nice results! Cheers to All,
Waverider

BTW - where are Canuck, YGM, Uponroof, and Siochaina - hope and trust you're all well.


Cavan Man (11/12/02; 19:21:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 89466)
makcumka
"It's not a very pretty name is it?"

Where's Roger the Shrubber when you need him?


a nation of one (11/12/02; 19:00:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 89465)
eye wrack
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/11/10/MN190150.DTL

I think the linked-to article may be significant for the following reasons.

No matter what the ultimate desire of such an action may be, the decision to remove Iraq's present head of state, as a first step in achieving it, is a strategy. The choice of using military force in doing so is a tactic. How many men to deploy, how to get them there, and which supplies to provide them are all matters of logistics. Usually, strategies are decided at the national level, by the effective head of state, whether a man, or a group of men. Tactics are chosen based on variables such as terrain, the situation, the enemy's strength, one's own capabilities, and so on. Whenever experienced professional warriors are in the positions necessary to enable them to determine what tactics shall be made use of, tactics tend to become agreed upon rather early. Logistics involve unique realities which knowledgeable men solve in more or less imaginative ways, kind of like creatively solving a puzzle. When the choice of tactics is determined by those who are not experts, those who know which tactics should be chosen, if confident, assert their disagreement, typically recommending a smarter choice. Because of this, whenever a military action is going to be taken, if there is significant dispute -among the men who are going to general the war- over the best way to win it, that is sometimes the first major indication that the tactic chosen is not the best one possible. Where a very poor tactic has been decided on, dispute is characteristically strong and widespread. Serious military defeats, prolonged, and unsuccessful campaigns tend to fit that criteria. There have been exceptions, certainly. But luck should never be relied on in any military battle. And however clear it might appear, superior strength is not a garuantee of victory. Never, under any circumstance, should the population -or the military- of an invaded nation be relied upon to rise up and overthrow their leader. Such hope is a delusion characteristic of amateurs. Soldiers unseasoned by practiced mortal combat are seldom a match against desparate men fighting for their lives on ground which they themselves will lose if they fail. It may be that the U.S.'s war against Iraq will provide an exception to these admonitions. Increasingly, it looks like we are going to find out.


makcumka (11/12/02; 18:51:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89464)
@ Cavan Man
I, too, prefer the Castle of Anthrax :)

Cavan Man (11/12/02; 18:37:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89463)
Mr Gresham
Or, could it be as in Monty Python's "The Holy Grail"; ...."on second thought, let's not go to Camelot"?

Mr Gresham (11/12/02; 18:17:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89462)
Camelot
In this bright moment, it is time once more to think about harmony among the fine Knights and Ladies at ALL of the Castles of the Golden Realm.

As the founder of the first Table Round believed, it is Right that makes Might, and not the reverse. May we bring this Shining idea to all the lands our shared Golden Philosophy touches upon.

If gold is to bring peace, rather than war, let it begin here.


Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 18:10:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 89461)
Sierra Madre --- Re: Mr. John Patric !!
Sir Dr. Zhisheng was the one that told us about his learning from Mr. John Patric ! Later in life Sir Dr. Zhisheng ALSO had the opportunty to travel in that part of the WORLD and speak with Chinese people.
I too have the book and enjoyed it also !
==
AND --Thanks again Sir Dr. Zhisheng for remembering Mr. John Patric --- and Nie Hao Ma !
<;-)


Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 17:57:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89460)
The day is done...time to reflect, again

The notion that the present indomitable strength of gold is somehow connected with the opening of the Shanghai Gold Exchange, is intriguing. Could it be....?
*******

A thought: there must be literally thousands of financial executives (CFO's) in the corporations of the world, handling ten, twenty, fifty, a hundred million dollars or more in available corporate cash, each one of them.

But to not one of them does it occur, to place 5, 10, 20 or 50% of their cash in gold. "No sir, that is UNTHINKABLE.
Gold is a volatile commodity." OK, mister, you know what you are doing!

And so the game goes on and on, from stocks, into bonds, from bonds, into stocks, from stocks, into euro bonds or euro stocks, etc. etc. Paper, paper, paper.

The numbers (money is only numbers) will get larger and larger, more and more zeros. We already talk of trillions. In a few years we will be in quadrillions.

I guess as long as there is not a violent SHOCK, this game has a long ways to play yet. "mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable..." Businesses will be going through the ham slicer, one thin slice at a time.

If gold goes to "da moon", as I think it will, the sourgrapes financial officers will only say, "Well, it was a lucky speculation in a commodity", and look the other way.
Not one of them will reflect that if they had thought a bit - (what trouble thinking is!!) - they could have done their corporations an enormous favor. Who is going waste time thinking of his own stupidity?

Sierra


ElGordo (11/12/02; 17:56:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 89459)
Silver used to clean water and kill bacteria
http://www.financialsense.com/disc1/00000100.htm
NASA selected a silver system to purify water for our space shuttle program. Most of the world's airlines use silver water filters to purify their airline's water systems.

The city of Milwaukee (where several years ago 400,000 people became ill, where 100 died after drinking contaminated water from their municipal system) now uses silver on its water filters to kill bacteria. The Milwaukee strain of Cryptosporidium can actually live on Clorox.

Those who believed that a plague could not develop in this century have already seen the beginning of one with drug-resistant strains of bacteria that can be transmitted by casual contact in movie theaters, hospitals and shopping centers.

The bio-chemical bacteria and yeast programs being developed by Iraq could probably be killed by the new silver solution.
__________
I do not recommend clifton mining.
This post is about new uses for silver in medicine.


sector (11/12/02; 17:55:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89458)
@Belgian: Yet More on the DIVG
http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h10/update/
It isn't rocket science but the DIVG may tell us a bit more about the cabal's stress level.

The PM $USD gold price divided by the Major Currency Dollar Index [Found at the bottom of the above link].

Today's calculation = $321.75 ÷ 99.07 = 3.247

I would like to see the Dollar index fall into the .97s as it did in July. Until that happens the DIVG is being driven by a rising gold price more than a falling dollar.

As for secrets, the more folks that appreciate the gold market manipulation and act to smash the cabal by purchasing gold in any form, the sooner we all can book even more profits.
+++++++++++++++++

Caven Man , looked forward to meeting you...too bad. Anyway, the ball doesn't carry so far on Bermuda fairways...zip for roll.

I am completely hooked on Hogan. Took up his "Cupped wrist", closed stance and have never hit the ball so far. The first pass was all it required.


Pizz (11/12/02; 17:48:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 89457)
Rich
Yes, Rich, the cheap stuff hangin right in there.

I have to run, it's quittin time on the West coast and I have to go get my new ears adjusted.

Check out the silver lease rates next door. We either have a glitch (quite possible) or we're gettin another lease rate spike in silver (up over 1% across the board???). I'm still trying to figure out why when silver lease rates go nuts, silver rallies, and when the gold lease rates go up, the gold seems to be used to sell the price down.

Have you any ideas?

Pizz


Max Rabbitz (11/12/02; 17:47:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 89456)
Dearest Wizard Gandalph
What have you been feeding spot?
I had him nailed down perfectly and then.......
Congratulations to the winners.


Pizz (11/12/02; 17:42:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 89455)
(No Subject)
Cavan Man: Not to interject in a private golf statement, but a 5 WOOD seems about right. Now we'll have to see if gold has John Daly behind the golden number one wood - 325 into some major wind. . . . but then again we could be on a par 5, 600 yarder, and already lying 320 or so and hitting a three wood???? (I like that senario better)

Sierra: the John Patric post was not mine, but it was made by someone else regarding a post I made and I just happen to be from the same area and rough time frame here in the northwest. I still have to get the book and read it myself, time permitting. But thanks for the thought. I seem to think that it might have been Gandalf that brought him up originally.

Pizz


R Powell (11/12/02; 17:38:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89454)
Gandalf // Pizz // Prize givers
Gandalf (89353),
"BTW, these RULES are not yet setforth in CONCRETE (sorry, Rich for the simile)"

Quite alright, Gandalf the White, Master of Spike and Mover of gold. I've often refered to concrete as "gray gold" since my association with it has paid the household bills long enough to raise two kids. The older one moved out last Sunday for the second time. The younger is also out on his own. I'm trying to convince the misses that now is the time to sell this 3 bedroom house and buy a one bedroom one. Poured a sidewalk today and, at the owners request placed a large gold coin in it at the appropriate time. No, not real, golden colored. But, the allure of gold is not dead.

Pizz, (89437)
"Number 2, disaster insurance (silver- my own opinion not shared by many) doing nicely also."

Yes, quite nicely of late after bottoming around 428-430. I'm still impressed that the so-called small speculator class in the COT held tightly onto their long positions throughout that approximately 80 cent freefall before that recent bottom. I asked David Morgan "Who are those guys?". His answer- the public!
As to how numerous we are (?), perhaps we are not as few as it sometimes appears. Those small speculators were net long over 20,000 contracts as of last Friday and the total of Silver Eagle sales for August was 1.745 million- a record month. I would guess that the big specs have covered their shorts and are now adding longs. We'll see how easily (pricewise) the Commercials accommodate this buying although imho it's all still technical trading. I often run into the belief that a large price move can not happen simply because it has not yet happened. Perhaps if we cry "WOLF" enough times, you and I may be the only longs left! Here's hoping we live long enough to see it through.

Congrats to all the winners and to all who made it happen. Thanks...
Rich


ElGordo (11/12/02; 17:35:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89453)
Colloidal Silver (solution) kills super bacteria
The Testing

In the test work for the EPA hospital approval, the ASAP Solution® had to kill hundreds of thousands of some of the deadliest types of bacteria found in the United States within minutes, and it proved able to do so. There were approximately 1600 individual bacterial tests in just one series alone. American Biotech's product was able to pass all the tests.

The Hospital Approval

American Biotech Labs expects to get the full hospital disinfectant approval within the next 15-45 days. The approval will open the door to sell the highly effective, yet non-toxic disinfectant to thousands of hospitals, clinics, rest homes, and other healthcare facilities world wide. Management expects sales of the new disinfectant to possibly begin as soon as January 2003. Said Keith Moeller, V.P., "This will be a very important product for the market. Because this product is non-toxic and yet highly effective at killing even the MRSA super bacteria, we expect sales to boom world wide. Unlike other disinfectants, this product can be used in and around patients to kill bacteria with no adverse effect. It is so safe that it could be sprayed right on the skin or even consumed orally with no adverse consequences."

Malaria Testing/Drug Approval

A new human trial specifically testing ASAP's effectiveness on malaria is under way in Ghana, West Africa. In the first two tests, 19 people who had been diagnosed with malaria were treated with the ASAP Solution. All 19 people (mostly children) were reported by the doctors as being fully recovered within just seven days. The latest malaria tests should be completed within the next 60 days.

With no reported failures, the human tests have gone so well that the official Food and Drug Board of Ghana has already approved the ASAP Solution® for drug registration. Recent West African trials also tested the product as a treatment for fungal skin infections, vaginal infections, urinary tract infections, tonsilitis, pharingitis, some sexually transmitted diseases, conjunctivitis, upper respiratory tract infections, nasal and sinus problems, etc. In almost every human case tested so far, full recovery was reached in just 1-7 days.
---------------------------
The company received purchase orders totaling over 32,000 bottles of product in just the last week. Sales have doubled from last year and we are expecting the heavy growth to continue especially with the company's new approval and listing with the US Senate committee for Homeland Defense.


silvercollector (11/12/02; 17:26:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 89452)
Blade Black
There were a few posts a week or two ago about Goldcorp's physical acquistion attempt. There was a post (or perhaps an essay over at G-E) that reasoned that Goldcorp's experiment was a failure. Some sort of logic that explains that the BB's have complete control.

Did you see that article/post and can you comment on the logic?

Thanks in advance.


Cavan Man (11/12/02; 17:13:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 89451)
@sector
Don't give away too many secrets! Saw you speak in N.O. and decided against saying hello so as to preserve mutual anonymity (did I spell that right?). 175 into the wind for a #5 is a little light where I come from. Though, I can't hit it like a "laser". Be well...CM

PS: Busy re-inventing my game with Hogan's timeless classic.


Belgian (11/12/02; 17:06:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89450)
@ Sector
Thanks and looking forward to your publication.
Can you give the formula you are using ?
(POG : US$-index = DIVG ?) : 324,5 $ : 104,66 = 3,10.
What is rising/declining DIVG telling us ?


Black Blade (11/12/02; 16:24:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 89449)
Re: Cobra(too)

The physical supply is tight. You may recall that recently Goldcorp tested the market when they asked a brokerage if they would be able to accumulate 20 million ounces for delivery in short order. They were told that it would take only a couple of day. So they decided to take delivery of 1.2 million ounces and it took a couple of weeks at a higher than normal premium. That speaks volumes - and yet the tripe from some so-called analysts continues to be that there is no problem with supply. If the word got out or if the shift toward physical accumulation strengthens we would see a wild break out that would squeeze the most ardent (desperate?) institutional shorts. The future looks bright for that and many more reasons.

BTW, good to see you back. Cheers!

- Black Blade


MK (11/12/02; 16:09:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89448)
Contest. . .
I do not want to neglect thanking all of the entrants for participating in our Contest. We have these little essay attachments so that the thousands of people who read this page can get a sense of what other people are thinking on various subjects, and I can't tell you how much your words of wisdom mean to those readers. I am proud of our posters here and proud of the positive effect they have on so many. It's good for all of us to know that there are others like us out there. For so many years, many of us felt isolated in our point of view and understandings. This site brought all that to a conclusion and we will continue to keep that wolf at bay at least for as long as we are able to keep the doors to this castle open, and the lights burning in this Great Hall. For that we ask your continued support of our brokerage operations. It is your purchase of gold from USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals that nourishes these pages. When you look back at the last few years these doors have been open (by visiting the archives), I think you will find that much of what has happened in the economy has been predicted right here and discussed long before it became main menu with the standard media.

Many thanks to my wizardrous friend, Gandalf the White, for monitoring the Contests.

Onward, my fellow goldmeisters.


Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 16:08:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89447)
PIzz, now that you're around....
I want to tell you I got ahold of a copy of John Patric's
"A Yankee Hobo in the Orient" - original dust jacket in good shape, and signed by the author.

Makes excellent reading. Men of those days were a different breed. Ah well, hard times will bring the type to the fore once again. J.P. was one of a kind, an exemplar of his race and time and country.

Great reading, about the hero of Frying Pan Creek. Thanks for the tip regarding the author and his book.

Saludos

Sierra


CoBra(too) (11/12/02; 15:59:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 89446)
Late Gold Spike Today -
- Is another reminder that the trading pattern of the yellow metal has radically changed. Looks like the ready (and real) supply is drying up as prime lenders are starting to get worried of getting it back in kind, or as it may well be, at all - see JPM-C.

Jim Sinclair is daring to wager - that come next Monday - the 330 sound barrier will be history - His word in POG's ear!
Cheers - cb(2)





Black Blade (11/12/02; 15:57:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 89445)
Re: mikal

Indeed, foreign natural resource professionals are already working in the US and if you go to any US university in many graduate programs the majority of students are foreigners. It appears that US students are simply not inclined to pursue careers in the sciences, especially in physical sciences. Most that I have seen were Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern. In short, they're already here. Many if not most remain after graduation to work in the US on special work visas due to the lack of US professionals. What security concerns that may also involve is anyones guess. However, I have several foreign friends who I worked with in the biz.

- Black Blade


TownCrier (11/12/02; 15:43:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89444)
"That raggedy wizard!" mutters Townie from the rack.
Well, after all the trouble to drag it out and dust it off, you didn't think they were just going to put it away completely unused, did you?

R. (remarkably taller now)

----
PS. Another reminder to the winners, please verify your correct shipping addresses with an email to marie@usagold.com


Saxulum^ (11/12/02; 15:41:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 89443)
Russia Seeks Regime Change To Prevent Iraq War
http://www.stratfor.com
Don't know if this was posted before
but it gives some more insight in the "Marionette Theater"...


F R E E I N T E L L I G E N C E B R I E F I N G:

Russia Seeks Regime Change To Prevent Iraq War

Informed Russian sources told Stratfor on Nov. 7 that Russian intelligence services are working in tandem with pro-Russian Iraqi generals to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, hoping to stave off a U.S. war. Moscow seeks to stage a coup before the end of November, in time to prevent a U.S. attack.




mikal (11/12/02; 15:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 89442)
@BlackBlade
You said: "We should be looking at a reduction in newly mined minerals for several years that will pressure prices higher." I agree. Are the universities in highly populated and other foreign countries (India, China, Russia, etc.) producing a surplus of geologists, mining engineers and specialists? When TSHTF it seems some foreign candidates with/without experience could be persuaded to relocate? Starting incomes could be VERY attractive at that time and MANY are fluent in English.

Henri (11/12/02; 15:31:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 89441)
Black Blade Msg 89388
Almost hit a Moose with my car this morning!!! Sheesh they're big. If you can see the whites of moose eyes in your headlights as she wheels around...you're entirely TOO close.

Guided (11/12/02; 15:29:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 89440)
Outgoing SEC chief
Looks like he's ready to turn around and run. Don't blame him.


Guided (11/12/02; 15:24:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 89439)
New SEC director lasted 18 days
http://www.msnbc.com/news/834103.asp?vts=111220021350
And, I wouldn't bet on Mr. Bin Laden being dead.
These people are very clever. They proved that.


Time For GOLD (11/12/02; 15:20:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89438)
Runner Up Silver Eagle Coin Prize
Thank you USA Gold and all the staff who made the the fun contest possible and for the generous prizes! But more importantly, thank you for providing this forum where so many knowledgeable participants congregate to share their knowledge! TIME FOR GOLD!!!

Pizz (11/12/02; 15:15:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89437)
Just What Picture are the Markets Painting
Number 1 disaster insurance (gold) strong even with the shorts throwing in their last amunition.

Number 2 disaster insurance (silver - my own opinion not shared by as many) doing nicely also.

Stock markets failing to break back up thru the neckline of the most massive head and shoulders formation in history even with about everthing the FED and PPT can throw at it.

The dollar ready to break thru to new lows with the bond markets treading water with probable foreign capital leaving our shores on the sell side and offsetting buying by war flight capital.

North Korea making waves and Al Queda (MK, I agree with you that Bin Laden is probably dead) doing the same.

Paladium down, CRB down, and oil not moving up even when we are on the brink of ME war?
---------------------------------

The picture I'm starting to see come to light is that the markets are set up for a MASSIVE drop in aggrigate demand from the markets, mainly in the US. What ever happens, it appears that we may be discounting the ramifications of a "bunker" mentality with the posibilty of TSHTF.

--------------------------------

Congrats to the winners, and sorry I was unable to find the time for my planned Monday entry (would not have been close anyway). We are having major personnel cutbacks, and I handle each one face to face rather than issuing pink slips -- rips me up inside to do it that way, but if I were to lose my job thru no fault of my own, I'd want my superiors to give me the reasons face to face, and so I do, as best I can.

War or not, we're still not out of the woods economically by a long, long shot.

Pizz







makcumka (11/12/02; 15:14:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 89436)
Contest
Congratulations to all the winners.

That includes everyone on this forum in posession of physical, as the spot goes up, we all win!

Tickled pink as to what the future holds.

Gandalf The Wizard, you have any ideas?


sector (11/12/02; 15:06:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 89435)
More on the DIVG
Dollar index Value of Gold
This metric contains the London PM [$USD] Fix, the Major Currecy Dollar Index, and is thus related to defended JPM gold derivatives denominated in $USD.

By using the Major Currency DI published daily we get an end-of-day DIVG snapshot minus the COMEX close that encompasses the industrialized nations [Who possess gold in central bank quantity].

There have been four excursions over 3.25 DIVG since the WA, three since July 2002. Today we have the third day of the fourth excursion in the danger zone above 3.25. In July 2002 the DIVG spent five days above 3.25 before falling back.

Friday with a follow through aboue 3.25 tells the tale.

Date______Euro___Yen____PM ____DI____DIVG

8-Nov-02__1.0139_119.72__321.70_98.77__3.257

12-Nov-02_1.0105_119.57__321.75_99.07__3.248

I am using this metric as a cabal stress level indicator.


goldenpeace (11/12/02; 14:56:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 89434)
Great Gratitude for this Forum...
In these days of growing "investment" insanity, it is truly a boon to have a refuge where the shared virtues of real value are practiced.
Great Blessings and Thanks to our host MK for all his endeavors to hold that space so consciously.
And not least, thanks to him , as well, for his great generosity in awarding multiple prizes to the lucky price guessers in his latest contest.
May all beings be present with whatever arises.
May all beings be patient with whatever arises.
May all beings be peaceful with whatever arises.
Bowing
goldenpeace

P.S. Go Gold! The Truth will out!


TownCrier (11/12/02; 14:37:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 89433)
Gold rising nicely in light of, or even in spite of, several factors
http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2002/11/12/rtr792057.html
NEW YORK, Nov 12 (Reuters) - COMEX gold rose to its highest in almost six weeks Tuesday after Iraq's parliament rejected the U.N. disarmament plan, raising prospects that Baghdad would balk at inspections and invite a U.S.-led war.

"Iraq has a little bit to do with it, but it's probably more technical," said James Pogoda, vice president of precious metals at Mitsubishi International Corp, noting that oil prices moved up only slightly.

Gold had to compete for interest with the stock market, where the Dow was up 105 points in afternoon trade, snapping a three-day losing streak.

"There has been decent, big volume buying in here, so I think you have some funds accumulating positions," said one COMEX gold broker. "On the other hand, the dollar has not gone negative all day, which is not bullish for us and the Dow is widening its rally."

--------(article at url)----------

Meanwhile, underpinning gold's special asset role among the precious metals, as gold continues to rise palladium has fallen to 3-1/2 year lows on sharp declines in industrial/fabrication demand.

Another article reports the following.

"The outlook for palladium remains grim as consumers destock and producers stockpile unsold metal," wrote UBS Warburg in November's monthly commodities report. "We forecast that palladium will trade lower in 2003 and 2004 due to chronic oversupply in the market."
+
Ironically, palladium once suffered the exact opposite problem. In January 2001 it hit record highs around $1,100 an ounce as industrial users frantically stockpiled...
+
"I'm just hearing it's coming out of inventories. And the global economy isn't what I would call 'robust,'" said Leonard Kaplan, president of Prospector Asset Management. "With car sales projected lower and with other catalytic-converter types-of-things possible now, why do they need it?," he asked.

Bottom line: even though palladium is considered a precious metal, it isn't gold. The lesson here seems to be that if it is not king of the financial hill (and gold is just that), there is little desire to hold it beyond fabrication needs. Casual comparison to palladium's wild swings in the past few years shows how gold has kept its legs through thick AND thin. Call Centennial today.

R.


Boilermaker (11/12/02; 14:37:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89432)
Cogratulations to the winners
Excellent last minute market maneuvers makes winners of the high side bettors. Congratulations to:

Skydog, Cytek, goldenpeace, goldquest and Time For GOLD

And my hat's off to Gandalf, the wizard who makes strange and wonderful things happen, for his diligent and good natured contest supervision.

Boilermaker


Black Blade (11/12/02; 14:36:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89431)
Re: mikal

You may also be surprised how many displaced geologists and other mining professionals are now working for the environmental industry. Any port in a storm. Many of my friends have found work in the government agencies such as the Bureau of Land Management, Forest Service, various states Department of Environmental Quality, etc. Many of these people have several years of experience in exploration and mining and they are likely lost to the mining industry for good. Many others are working for private environmental industry companies. Some have left for work in petroleum and others in unrelated careers. Both the mining and petroleum industries will have a difficult time as the universities are not teaching the skills required for these natural resource industries (possibly a shift toward political correctness). As older professionals retire there are fewer younger people to replace them or to be mentored in the workforce. Should there be a resurgence in the natural resource industry many companies will find themselves in a bind. It is also becoming more difficult for these companies as environmental regulations become ever more complicated and restrictive. This along with the required studies and long lead times for project development, we should be looking at a reduction in newly mined minerals for several years that will pressure prices higher.

- Black Blade

Also, congrats to the price guess winners!


Gimli_ (11/12/02; 14:32:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 89430)
Stinkin' Gandalf!! I was looking real good @ $$$ 322.6 $$$ 'til he spike it!!
Congrats to the lucky, err I mean skillful winners! :-))

MK (11/12/02; 14:29:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89429)
One Man's Opinion. . . .

If that tape is Bin Laden he's speaking from the grave. If he were alive, they would have trotted him out a long time ago. This doesn't mean that Al Qaeda won't be attempting the attrocities they threaten, or desist from trading (terrorizing) on bin Laden's name.

Congrats to the winners. Some wizardry involved. . . . .methinks. . . .Have you noticed that gold rises whenever we have these contests. Why would that be, my wizardrous friend? Please, we would like to know if there's
more to this than mere coincidence. . . . . . . . .


Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 14:09:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 89427)
TA TA TAAAA, TA TA TAAAA, TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
The Dec '02 Contract POG Settlement Guessing CONTEST !!
The Clerk announces, "The Master of the Castle, SIR MK, has reviewed the OFFICIAL list of prognostications in the December ‘02 Gold Price Settlement CONTEST, and is pleased to be here to announce the WINNERS of GOLD and the "Runners-up" that shall receive the SILVER !!!!"

(The Town Crier who is standing next to Gandalf, turns to Gandalf and asks, "Did the Clerk say ‘WINNERS’ of GOLD?")
(Gandalf, looking like a cat that had a canary in his mouth, muttered, "I do believe that he certainly did, as I bet that it was all my fault !)
(T.C. after looking around at the other activity, then turns to Gandalf and asks, "Why are they preparing the RACK ?")
(Gandalf says, "OOPS !" and with a tap of his staff, "DISAPPEARS" in a "poof" of white smoke !) <;-)

SIR MK then announces....

"The COMEX action today was unusual and clearly showed signs of "MANIPULATION" !" "I understand that there are rumors that perhaps a Wizard was casting spells after the HIGH NOON time in NY, AND that near the end of the trading session, he let loose the dog SPIKE !"

"The December ‘02 Gold Contract (GC2Z) COMEX action today shows a SETTLEMENT price of $324.7 ! That is an increase of $3.1 above the NY close yesterday! The High of today's COMEX session was $325.0 and the low $321.5 !!"

"After review of the OFFICAL entries listings, I am pleased to announce that, ... One GOLDEN German 20 Mark coin, containing 0.2304 ounces of GOLD, is awarded to EACH of Sir Skydog, Sir Goldenpeace, and Sir Cytek!!!" "Also, TWO "Runners-up" are each awarded an one ounce U.S. SILVER EAGLE. These "Runners-up" are Sir Goldquest and Sir Time For GOLD !!"

"Let's hear it for these winners !" Hip, Hip, Hooray !!!

He then turns to the Head of the Security Guards, and asks, "Where is that Ole Wizard Gandalf ?", "I saw him here a few minutes ago."
===

Will each of these lucky CONTESTANTS please provide their REAL name and "snailmail" address via email to Marie at USAGOLD, so that the PRIZES may be mailed. Please use this email address:
marie@usagold.com

===
< snip from the OFFICIAL entry listings >

$$$$ 324.9 $$$$ goldquest (11/11/02; 10:23:52MT - msg#: 89293
$$$$ 324.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (11/8/02; 08:59:57MT - msg#: 89063
--
$$$$ 324.7 ****for Sir Skydog as it is tough to keep a Skydog "down" !
<;-)
--
$$$$ 324.6 $$$$ Cytek (11/04/02; 21:48:36MT - msg#: 88774
$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Time For GOLD (11/11/02; 11:45:16MT - msg#: 89305
===


USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/12/02; 13:52:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 89426)
Give the gift that keeps on giving...
http://www.usagold.com/jewelry/goldjewelry.html
Let Marie be your shopping assistant this year, to keep you out of crowed malls and away from sales tax and jewelry store markups.

USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/12/02; 13:46:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 89425)
We've brokered millions ($) into gold, and we offer levels of service right for anyone...
http://www.usagold.com/ProductsPage.html

The Small Order Desk

Who owns gold? Gold owners are the people who own the professional practices, the businesses, the industries, the shops, and who are the working folk that make "Western civilization" operate on a day to day basis. In most cases you will find gold owners to be among its most reliable and efficient practitioners precisely because we understand that is not the government nor through Wall Street that will insure our futures and make our lives rewarding. We are the software engineers, doctors, lawyers, school teachers, small business owners, college professors, retirees, civil servants, tradesmen, laborers and financiers alike -- all people who recognize the stability, permanence, utility, and simplicity of gold.

Friendly help for your first-time purchase and for your routine acquisitions!

Our Small Order Desk is for anyone who would like to buy less than $5,000 of gold bullion or pre-1933 international gold coins.

Items offered through this desk include the following.

Gold Bullion:
U.S. Gold Eagles (fractional sizes available)
Canadian Maple Leafs (fractional sizes available)
Austrian Philharmonics
South African Krugerrands
Gold Bars

Our full slate of pre-1933 international gold coins: (examples shown)
gold coins
TOP ROW: French Rooster (.1867 oz); French Angel (.1867 oz); Swiss Helvetia (.1867 oz); Belgian Leopold (.1867 oz)

BOTTOM ROW: British Sovereign (.2354 oz); Dutch 10 guilder (.1947 oz); and German 20 mark (.2304 oz)

We also offer U.S. Silver Eagles and Silver Canadian Maple Leafs in 100 ounce quantities or more. It's all priced right and in keeping with our long history of client service.

call for gold price quotes and information

1-800-869-5115
speak with Jonathan, ext.110




sector (11/12/02; 13:10:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 89424)
@ Belgian About the Dollar Index Value of Gold [DIVG]
It is a metric of my creation...
...and is not yet posted anywhere. We are working on a one-time post at lemetropolecafe.com but don't count on it too soon. The Fed's data are posted on Fridays with daily recordings. In between we need to estimate the major currency dollar index. I use the commonly listed dollar index available at all the commodity sites.

We need to all be mindfull of a possible trap being set by the cabal.


Operative (11/12/02; 13:07:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 89423)
Dec Options
Wowsers!! Just punched up the Dec 02 Options. Yesterday, there were 1548 call contracts purchased @ 325 strike price. Also of interest were 1139 call contracts @ 330. Impressive volume for contracts that expire on Nov 21. Also of interest were no offsetting on the put side. HMMMMM??? Someone with inside knowledge that gold moving up the next 10 days?? Interesting times.

Mr Gresham (11/12/02; 13:05:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 89422)
Spikey likes it!
Who kicked that ol' yaller dog 'n' woke 'im up?

Operative (11/12/02; 12:59:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 89421)
Request of your magical powers Sir Gandalf
If you could conjur up a spell to keep Spot airborne at the 325 level until gold options expiry (a few days??), I would like to see how JPM handles such a magical show.

Operative (11/12/02; 12:51:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 89420)
@ Gandalf the White
AHH HAA!! Tis true then, yes I now believe, but did I see a wizard/freudian slip therein? "Beliver" really means you are enticing Spot with a slice of liver?? Crafty of you ole wise one!

Tacitus (11/12/02; 12:35:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 89419)
Thank you, Aristotle.
Dear Aristotle,

I finally read the articles from the Asian Times which you posted back in posting #89195. Very interesting. I hope we can live up to the hopes of our Asian brothers.

Salve,
Tacitus


mikal (11/12/02; 12:32:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 89418)
Executive Orders and Presidential Decision Directives
These laws are not "in force" activated per se, but approved legislation, voted into law to be enacted at the President's whim. Extensive power contained therein.

Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 12:24:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 89417)
ROFL !!!!! <;-) Thanks, I needed that !!!
ONLY if I could spell ARGRIT !!!
<;-)


mikal (11/12/02; 12:24:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 89416)
Gold is gold
Black Blade said: "I see that many geologist friends have left the business and are taking stable employment with the government (state and federal). Does this mean, they've actually left the business at all? After all, those Executive orders and Presidential Decision Directives are still in force. Are we overlooking lucrative force majeur nationalization or similar "state of emergency" actions? And what "contingencies" are official options for debt remediation, domestic and abroad? Certainly those draconian environmental and permitting roadblocks can be reconsidered under the circumstances.

Gimli_ (11/12/02; 12:17:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 89415)
...and it should be "doubtful" too, not doubful.
Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 12:10:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89414)
THAT should be "BELIEVER" !!!
<;-)

Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 12:08:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 89413)
Sir Operative' observation !
Operative (11/12/02; 11:59:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89412)
@ Gandalf the White
Nice call on your "it's High Noon in New York" post.
===
At least NOW, you are a BELIVER !
Oh, so many are doubful !!!
<;-)



Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 12:10:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89414)
THAT should be "BELIEVER" !!!
<;-)

Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 12:08:03MT - usagold.com msg#: 89413)
Sir Operative' observation !
Operative (11/12/02; 11:59:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89412)
@ Gandalf the White
Nice call on your "it's High Noon in New York" post.
===
At least NOW, you are a BELIVER !
Oh, so many are doubful !!!
<;-)


Operative (11/12/02; 11:59:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89412)
@ Gandalf the White
Nice call on your "it's High Noon in New York" post.
I am beginning to believe you truly are a wizard with the almost 3 point jump in gold after the post. Course, I could not see your hands oh great one. Per chance you had hidden from sight a fistfull of "Bacon Begg'in Strips" to lure spot to jump so high?


Belgian (11/12/02; 11:48:29MT - usagold.com msg#: 89411)
Re :
@ Sector : Is there any chart on DIVG (dollar index value of Gold) ? TIA, Sir.

@ Gresham/BB/CG : Thanks for THE Jim Willie -25.
Jim overlooked a very important fact : The ECB, quarterly, marking to market of its Gold-reserves. The future physical Gold market IN EURO ?

@ Paper Avalanche (and spouse) : The China (Shangai) Gold market and...available physical Gold getting scarcer !!!
Sir Kosares's *SQUEEZE * theory !
US$ pulling intrinsic value out of its oil relation (regulating-dominance versus OPEC) and the same for the euro from Gold, future free Gold in an almost exclusively physical market! Nice idea, having both currencies ($/€) side by side. But aint this town big enough for both of them ??? Or will the new winner take it all (oil and GOLD) ?

@ Sundeck : Anglogold announced it would like stock split (euro-bourses) and is buying (?) his own shares ?
Is it co-incidal with your mining-share theory or not ?

@ Hipplebeck/Invisible Hand : Saddam's son has suddenly appeared with a statement where he urges the Iraqi parlement to accept the UN resolution. Imagine Saddam suddenly stepping down to be replaced by his son ? This to make the cat and mouse game complete ? Result : lifting of oil-embargo and POO diving down. Everybody must have his day.


goldquest (11/12/02; 11:25:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 89410)
CNBC! What a Farce!
They had the CEO of NEM on and blanked him out twice. He was giving a decent update of his company and a rebuke to Crybaby Cramer. They blamed bad weather in Texas. Reports say, clear and sunny in Dallas! What a bunch of biased a$$holes!

RobotGuy (11/12/02; 11:24:47MT - usagold.com msg#: 89409)
Hmmmm POG gettin a little spikey 'round closin' time!


GratefulForGold (11/12/02; 11:24:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89408)
Spot Gold
WOW! I just checked Kitco chart and gold has spiked to $324.20! OK, which of you Knights has been playing with the market in order to win your beautiful gold coin?

Congratulations to whomever wins. I don't even mind that it spiked way over my estimate!


Hipplebeck (11/12/02; 10:45:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89407)
The face of the new world order
http://www.msnbc.com/news/833018.asp
With about a dozen armed Predators in stock and two coming off the assembly line every month, the CIA has a growing capacity to execute hits all over the world. It also has about a dozen newer-tech Global Hawks that fly much higher and cover a wider area with their cameras.


http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=351302
The Pentagon, which has encouraged the country's biggest defence contractors to submit tenders, wants to station dozens of helium-powered airships 20,000 metres above America's coasts to track missiles or hostile aircraft and to monitor what officials call "potential terrorist activities on the ground".

Airships are believed to be capable of providing photographs of quality up to 50 times greater than those from space satellites. According to yesterday's Los Angeles Times, they would not be armed initially, but would be designed to carry up to 2,000kg in "payload" – jargon for bombs and missiles. The plan is to send the blimps into the sky by 2010.

I saw an ad for a precious metals dealer that had what appeared to be a scattered pile of hundred dollar bills, but when the wind comes up and blows the money away, there is left only bullion and coins. Very effective.


Mr Gresham (11/12/02; 10:36:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 89406)
nation of one, Gold Liquidity
http://www.bearforum.com/cgi-bin/bbs.pl?read=263067
You continue to pack more into a 10-line post (about two unique insightful observations per line) than anyone has a right to expect. You put some of my unformed thoughts into concise words for me to see in print for the first time.

Link is to comments by Rob McEwen of Goldcorp, on what happened when actually trying to purchase physical in quantity. Things that make you go "Hmmmmm..."


a nation of one (11/12/02; 10:11:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 89405)
china and the pog

As a group, on average, American individuals are richer than Chinese individuals. But there are three or four times as many people in China as in the U.S. And the Chinese have not been ignoranced with regard to gold by a corrupt investment industry or by media business-biased propaganda. The Chinese tend to be pragmatic. The significant proportion of the American public tries to adhere to what they mistakenly think are Christian teachings. When it comes to investment, that can be fatal. And it often is. While the general population of Chinese are notoriously subjected to authoritarian government and severe ideological constrainsts, the individuals themselves are not fooled and continue to conduct their own affairs wisely. The Americans on the other hand, who are famous for their admiration for liberty and free speech, are gullible beyond measure, and the majority of them believe in whatever makes them feel good, caring nothing about whether what they believe in is true. Given this reality, it should be no surprise if the total conglomerate of individuals in China bring the price of gold to more realistic levels, as the American public continue to do whatever they are told.


Boilermaker (11/12/02; 10:07:13MT - usagold.com msg#: 89404)
Newmont takes gas from Cramer
Gold Companies Look Tarnished
Tuesday November 12, 11:02 am ET

By James J. Cramer,

Don't these gold companies just make you sick? Newmont Mining (NYSE:NEM - News) now joins Barrick Gold (NYSE:ABX - News) on the list of untrustworthy stocks because it blew the quarter big-time and then restated its earnings for a prepaid forward sales contract.

Both companies have turned out to have ore quality problems. Both companies gave you a false sense that they were the way to play the gold rise. Both companies have done nothing despite the gigantic surge in gold.


comment;
Newmont is being punished for sins past and future.


Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 10:04:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 89403)
OK --- It's HIGH NOON in NY !!! --- SOOOOOOO....
JUMP SPOT, JUMP
<;-)


sector (11/12/02; 10:03:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 89402)
Yen-Carry Trade -- Japan's Other Bubble?: William Pesek Jr.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Latest%20Columns&touch=1&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_bbco&T=markets_fgcgi_content99.ht&s2=ad_right1_bbco&bt=ad_bottom_bbco&s=APdB3OBOgWWVuLUNh

Tokyo, Nov. 12 (Bloomberg) -- If there's anything Japan Inc. fears more than a global recession, it's a stronger yen. It could slam profits at Honda Motor Co., Sony Corp. and Toyota Motor Corp. -- basically, the nation's strongest companies at the moment.

[...]

Weak Dollar Policy?

Adding to the uncertainty is Washington's currency policy. For the first time in years, U.S. officials may have a valid reason to rethink the ``strong dollar'' policy. As the U.S. economy weakens further, President George W. Bush's team may figure a lower dollar would help. A formal U.S. policy shift would be among Tokyo's worst nightmares.

What's more, there's reason to think the yen-carry trade bubble is bigger now then it was in 1998. Admittedly, there's no way to quantify this statistically -- it's a purely connecting-the- dots exercise. Yet anecdotal reports suggest a broadening of the trading strategy in recent years to smaller banks and businesses.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Things are coming undone.

Four times since the Washington Agreement gold price spike the Dollar Index value of Gold [DIVG] has pierced the 3.25 level…three of them since mid-July 2002. Friday, Monday and today represent the latest occurrence.

This metric contains both the major currency dollar index and the $USD gold price and seems to me to be superior to pog as an indicator of cabal stress. Each of the previous times the DIVG has been hammered quickly down.

If the DIVG stays above 3.25 for the remainder of the week we will have a very powerful signal that the cabal has given up its "Strong Dollar" policy.

"Waiting until gold goes up in a trend" will fail this time as there will be a gap that won't be filled. In the 1971 Nixon closing of the gold window the unfilled gap was $100. By ratio change in today's gold, the gap will be from $320 to $950.

Even JPM has initiated coverage on Gold Corp and Meridian plus some others. Perhaps those $48 Billion in new BIS gold derivatives were long options?

We will have the BIS gold derivative answer in a few weeks, but by then it will be too late for the fence sitters.


CoBra(too) (11/12/02; 09:43:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 89401)
... Monetary Policy?
Or is it Fallacy?

"You can pump all the money you want," explains Frank
Shostak, "but it does not create anything; it only
destroys. It causes a misallocation of resources,
consumer capital, and makes everything worse."

The effect of the latest rate cut, says Shostak, will be
to delay the recovery, not hasten it. (From DR)

... So it's delay, divert and diffuse as a substitute for reality. Unfortunately, in the final reckoning reality will be brutal - globally. cb2


Spartacus (11/12/02; 07:28:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89400)
French urge Britain to speed entry to the euro
http://www.guardian.co.uk/euro/story/0,11306,838123,00.html

Patrick Wintour
Tuesday November 12, 2002
The Guardian

-- The French government has made a private plea to senior British MPs to speed British entry to the euro, promising flexibility in negotiations on the terms of British entry.

In talks with MPs last week, the new French finance minister, François Mer, said he wanted Britain to be inside the euro, stressing, according to those present, that this would encourage a flexible interpretation of the EU's growth and stability pact, the rules that set limits to national government spending. --



Mr Gresham (11/12/02; 06:35:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 89399)
Willie
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/willie/willie111202.html
And don't miss Black Blade's link to Jim Willie's summary. So many of FOA's points for years running, now coming to full flower. Yes, some of it was "obvious", in 20-20 hindsight. And yes, our "timing" has been horrible -- little gnats caught in the blowback from a wind tunnel -- but horrible only in terms of our month-to-month horizons --how long did the Gold Pool function?

This IS the end of a system, you know -- they get one ending only to it, so they're gonna make it worthwhile, and pump it for all they got. We just never could know how much juice they held in reserve, or how bare to the walls they were willing to play the store's "bust-out". How much Enron/Worldcom accounting ("oops, another $8 billion. Uh, -- sorry?") they could heap onto the plan.

If you think of it in terms of "privatising" the world's loosely-held gold reserves (the key to future banking) it makes lots more sense.


Mr Gresham (11/12/02; 06:24:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 89398)
"Iraqi Oil, American Bonanza?"
http://www.msnbc.com/news/824407.asp?0dm=W15LB
RobotGuy, you're right. And they're being pretty blatant with it now. Although, if you thought about a rich natural resource that was not currently going to the benefit of the people who live near it, but to a b#(*&!d of a dictator, you could see this as less of an exploitive grab to toss him.

I guess you'd have to acknowledge that SOMEONE has always seen $350 billion military budgets as an investment in SOMETHING that can give an external return, and not just for the internal profits on the procurement contracts (pyramid-building exactions from the masses).

It's just the question of WHO ought to benefit from the oil under Iraq? If we had a just world structure already set up (food/medical/population wind-down), and a means of using it in support of that, then we might get something going. NBL.

In this case, however, neither markets nor militarys have a satisfying answer to the viscissitudes(sp?) of geology or Turkish/British colonial fallout in the oil era. So it goes. Que sera...


Paper Avalanche (11/12/02; 06:13:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89397)
Has anyone noticed this shift in momentum
in the POG since the Shaghai Gold Exchange opened last Wednesday? If memory serves me we were at $317 or so at that time and have picked up $5 in the POG in the last five trading days with the normal PTB downward spikes met with enormous upward pressure.

I was mentioning to my wife last night that I believe in the near future the imperial US dollar will be backed by oil and the Euro by gold, whereas now the dollar sets the price for both. Any and all comments on my take of things are more than welcomed.

Have a great Tuesday!!!

Paper Avalanche


DOWNUNDER (11/12/02; 05:18:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 89396)
@ARISTOTLE - - - RE DENIAL (89385)
Aristotle I have NO intention of engaging in a slanging match with you. It is obvious that you are in denial when confronted with your own written words & thoughts SO what's the point in a drawn out discussion? I'll let others decide for themslves what you said. Certainly I didn't put words in your mouth --YET by drawing attention to your previous posts you now feel OK to say---
"You sound like a hater, DOWNUNDER. What's with the chip?"

It seems you must have no mirrors in your abode -- Others have told you the same truth yet you persist with constant denial so that true dialog is impossible. YOU are ALWAYS right.(In your own lunch time) Humilty -get you some. Goes well with gold!




Hipplebeck (11/12/02; 04:49:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 89395)
the latest interest rate cut
I've heard and read it questioned why Greenspan and gang cut interest rates a half point now, when it hasn't seemed to help with the last eleven cuts.
My opinion, it's because they HAD too. Remember LTCM? Didn't they cut rates suddenly to help that problem? The derivative problems of today are much bigger. The boys at the top know the precarious situation. ANOTHER reason for a big push to war. There are piles and piles of credit paper tied up in deals that have no productive value. Enron is in microcosm what the US financial structure is in macrocosm. We have ringside seats to the slow motion collapse of the greatest ponzi scheme ever perpertrated.
Woe unto the banksters and politicians for the burdens they have piled onto the little guy. The scales get balanced in time, and the burdens they have given they will recieve in the next life.


Sundeck (11/12/02; 04:41:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 89394)
BB and CoinGuy - 25 Reasons
Thanks guys, I'll print it off and take it to bed for some pleasant reading and hopefully sweet, golden dreams...



Sundeck (11/12/02; 04:24:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89393)
JPM and Gold Stocks
Thanks to Sirs Draco, CoinGuy, Liberty Head and GratefulForGold, for your comments.

4. Insufficient Shares:

I suspect this would indeed be a major problem, especially for anyone with a large physical short position - those who have leased the gold and sold it into the market.

The scale of this activity has been the subject of much research by GATA and others. As I understand it, it may be of the order of 4000 - 6000 tonnes (plus or minus ?)- let's say it is 5000 tonnes, or about 161 million ounces. This is about twice annual mine production. Again assuming that a typical producer is making about $70 earnings per ounce, total earnings from new mine production is about $5.6B. If the producers are trading at average P:E of 15 times, then total market cap across all gold producers is about $84B. (Is that about what Microsoft is?) Assuming that the physical short position is 5000 tonnes and they have hedged this by acquiring shares of comparable value, they must hold about $11.2B worth of shares, or about 13% of the total gold-producer market capitalisation.

This is probably not unreasonable, but it would be very conspicuous! However, the above reasoning is complicated (among other things) by:

a. share holding would need to be in unhedged or lightly hedged producers, thus reducing the companies from which to choose, but offsetting this,

b. they need to be holding a parcel of shares of lower value than their physical gold exposure, because of the substantial leverage in the share price of unhedged producers as the POG rises.

Note, however, that all this says nothing about the extremely large derivative short positions, which are supposed to be more than 25 years annual new mine supply. Clearly, such large speculative positions cannot be hedged by holding shares in gold producers - there are not enough shares. These positions become a time bomb if the POG rises significantly and suddenly, as (following Sinclair) the risk control programs initiate short covering from a sparse physical supply.

Whew! I don't know whether all that makes sense?

GratefulForGold: Your points about "intrigue" in the manipulation of the market I suspect are a reality. The big players have been able to get away with pulling and pushing the market to their whims for many years. I doubt that they have all suddenly repented and are now about to "play fair". What other dirty tricks will be played is anybody's guess. Certainly, suppressing the public's perception of gold stocks by any means available may help their cause for a while longer.

Cheers

Sundeck


Hipplebeck (11/12/02; 04:22:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 89392)
Tacitus
You are making the "arrogance blunder". You believe that it is ok to force your way of life on some one else, but that it is not ok for them to try to do it to you. Live and let live.


RobotGuy (11/11/02; 21:43:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 89363)
Native North Americans

I agree sir.


Hipplebeck (11/12/02; 03:52:19MT - usagold.com msg#: 89391)
Iraq parliament
It is bluster and show. They will do this so that Saddam can look like a peacemaker when he accepts.

Hipplebeck (11/12/02; 03:49:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89390)
Sierra Madre
Thank you, sir, for your response about forex.
Very enlightening.

GratefulForGold:
I don't know if this helps, but it has been my observation that if some bankster talking head recommends something, it usually means they want to dump some of what they are recommending. They also downgrade something if they want to accumulate.


The Invisible Hand (11/12/02; 03:45:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 89389)
She's rising
http://www.kitco.com/charts/livegold.html
BREAKING NEWS from CNN.com Europe:

- Iraq's parliament rejects acceptance of a U.N. resolution on weaponsinspections, leaving the final decision to Saddam Hussein


Black Blade (11/12/02; 02:41:14MT - usagold.com msg#: 89388)
Re: CoinGuy

No elk yet, just muley and antelope so far. It looks like I might get skunked this year. No reports of wasting disease in this part of the country.

On the gold front I see that many geologist friends have left the business and some are taking stable employment in the Government (state and federal). Others have gone into other professions. Looks like unless the mining (and energy) business picks up there are likely to be very few left to work in the exploration game. Just at a time when energy supply appears to be in an accelerating decline. Considering the lead time needed to develop gold and energy projects we should be looking at a sustained period of several years of falling supply when demand looks to be increasing. One of the points mentioned in the 25 reasons article. I've seen this first hand in the gold business. Perhaps I will have to look at returning to work again, then again I guess I could do like my friends and take a leap into government work to finish out my days. Hmmm...

- Black Blade


The CoinGuy (11/12/02; 02:06:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 89387)
BB, beat me to that one by a hair...
Just got done reading the article(long). Rather interesting to say the least.

Saw you got a Muley..Good Job! Any luck with the Elk? I'm planning on heading back to the stand now that I'm back in town, but I have to admit there seems to be quite a discussion on CWD(Chronic Wasting Disease) around here. Making me nervous.

The CoinGuy


Black Blade (11/12/02; 01:59:32MT - usagold.com msg#: 89386)
25 Reasons why gold will rise: The vicious circle behind the US Dollar decline
http://www.321gold.com/editorials/willie/willie111202.html

Interesting run down on the dynamics that will drive the gold price higher.



Aristotle (11/12/02; 01:51:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 89385)
You sound like a hater, DOWNUNDER. What's with the chip?
http://www.usagold.com/cpmforum/archives/10200211/default.html
My upfront apologies to everyone else that this has nothing to do with Gold, but after your sad mischaracterization of my Sunday appeal to Mr. Bill, it's only proper that I defend my honor and set right the score. 'It is becoming to be humble (admittedly not my strongest point,) yet at the same time you must make a bold showing if put to a test.' That's why.

Anyone wanting to see the original post for verification can do so at the archive link given, scrolling down to the short way to 89241.

To save time, here it is in full for those who trust me at my word to tell it like it is (heck, they probably don't need to see this at all. Why am I wasting my time like this? I'll not do it again.)


= = = =
Aristotle (11/10/02; 22:57:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 89241)
Mr. Bill says the Sisci article is "poppycock" (msg#: 89206)
Wowzers! How long have you been such an American-hater, Mr. Bill?
I ask because I can't easily think of any other bias you could've carried into it to walk away with that vague and outright dismissal.

If you're not a hater of America and Americans, then I'm guessing instead that you read only as far as the first half of the first page. Yeah... I sure hope that's it, 'cause nothing gets under my skin more than bigoted American-haters and any other individual who similarly hates with broad sweeping brush strokes.

A discussion can't get much mileage if you don't give us more fuel than "poppycock."

Gold. Elaborate you some. --- Aristotle
= = = =

That is hardly "savage" by any definition, and only under your own unwarranted spin can it be interpreted as a "belittling attack."

It's an appeal for elaboration. Check the last two lines.

It puts forth two options that come to mind as a result of Mr. Bill's one-word assessment of the commentary. 1) It suggests that he hates America. 2) It proposes the preferred alternative excuse that he did not read the entire article.

Please note the following. I did not suggest that he was UNABLE to read. That was your original thought. I did not call him a bigot because I didn't know if it was 1) or 2) that was the case, or something else entirely. I was willing to await his elaboration as requested in my post. Calling him a bigot was your original thought.

After his subsequent remarks, especially the crack about Richard Perle, I was left inclined to believe he was in fact a hater.

Do you not know what discussion is built on, Downunder? Is the phrase "food for thought" alien to you? To that end, can I not praise a commentary on its various introductory merits while personally reserving judgement on whatever policy statement it actually conveys or that you interpret it to covey?

Indeed I can, and I have done just that. You missed the point of my original endorsement. You saw only what you wanted to see. What is your goal here? The last time I checked the description, this forum wasn't a dumping ground for broad-brush haters. As I said earlier, those kinds of bigots really get under my skin. As before, that statement of my irritations doesn't mean I'm calling you one, nor would it mean you are one. You alone will know what you are, and my care is only to steer clear as necessary.

Gold. Because the world's problems endure as each generation learns anew. --- Aristotle


Belgian (11/12/02; 01:51:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 89384)
Good Morning, dear Forumers....
Waking up with coffee aroma and croissants, whilst reading each and every post, is one out of many devine pleasures to me. Sincere thanks to *all* of you.
The most common denominator in every post (mine included) is dominated by a large and increasing degree of "UNCERTAINTY" ! The more doubts about the future, the more refuge is found in the possession of physical Gold. It is uncertainty that erodes confidence. And a strong decline in confidence leads ultimately to Gold. The "WEIMAR" syndrome ! The final fate for each and every empire in the past and all futures.

Yes, there always was, uncertainty . But at present, this uncertainty has become less and less "managable" due to its magnitude (globalized) and enormous efforts for hiding/maskerading, it. Increasing agression is purposely amplified and NOT neutralized ! All kinds of agression that is, without any, intentional, sign left to neutralize it.
When "Fear-Building" is on the order of the day...we are all over the hill and captured in the downward spiral.

The above reflexion was made after yesterday's Tony Blair speech (rhetoric), filtered through, during a good night's sleep. Forget about any happy end. Unfortunately !


Usul (11/12/02; 01:09:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 89383)
Credit crunch time
http://www.washtimes.com/commentary/20020818-11534508.htm
Washington Times, August 18

"It's not the accounting fraud, the corporate corruption, Martha Stewart, left-wing demagoguery about tax cuts for the rich, the budget deficit, or the war on terror.

It's balance-sheet deflation and the corporate credit crunch. These are two faces of the same ugly coin..."


Black Blade (11/12/02; 00:23:18MT - usagold.com msg#: 89382)
Home values in Japan plummet by up to 50%
http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/asia/story/0,4386,153807,00.html
Losses from asset deflation have forced some home-loan borrowers to take out a second mortgage at a time of declining incomes

Snippit:

TOKYO - Senior manager Kanji Ito bought his modest two-bedroom Tokyo apartment for 100 million yen (S$1.4 million) in the 1980s. Last year, it was valued at a mere 50 million yen. His loss from asset deflation is mirrored by home buyers who bought properties before 1990. According to a White Paper on the economy released by economic czar Heizo Takenaka this week, such losses, including those sustained by companies, have amounted to 1.16 quadrillion yen (S$17 trillion) since the burst of the 1990 bubble. The amount is twice the size of the country's gross domestic product.


Black Blade: The future of America? So far the U.S. has followed Japan nearly step for step.



Black Blade (11/12/02; 00:15:48MT - usagold.com msg#: 89381)
Bouncing paychecks blindside some workers
http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2002-11-10-nopay_x.htm

Snippit:

As the economy struggles and more companies collapse, some employees are finding their employers can't afford to pay them. The paycheck woes are coming because many companies are struggling to hold on: About 160 publicly traded companies have filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy reorganization this year, according to BankruptcyData.com. Employees are staging walkouts over bounced paychecks and unexpectedly finding themselves unable to pay rent and bills.

"I was so mad and felt betrayed," says Laurie Skinner, 31, a sales and marketing employee in Centerville, Ohio. Her bank told her it couldn't cash a former employer's check because there wasn't enough money to cover it. "All I knew was that my mortgage was due, my car payments were due. I was wondering, 'Will I have money for groceries?"

Black Blade: This scenario will play out several fold in coming months. As always, get out of debt and stay out of debt, stash enough emergency cash for several months expenses, accumulate Gold and Silver portfolio insurance, and start a storage program of nonperishable food and basic necessities (see article above).



Black Blade (11/12/02; 00:13:36MT - usagold.com msg#: 89380)
Europe's Inaction on Rates Puts Growth Burden on U.S.
http://quote.bloomberg.com/fgcgi.cgi?ptitle=Top%20Financial%20News&s1=blk&tp=ad_topright_topfin&T=markets_box.ht&s2=ad_right1_topfin&bt=ad_position1_topfin&box=ad_box_all&tag=financial&middle=ad_frame2_topfin&s=APc_JtRWKRXVyb3Bl

Snippit:

Frankfurt, Nov. 11 (Bloomberg) -- The European Central Bank, by passing up an opportunity to cut interest rates last week, left the burden of reviving world growth resting on a sputtering U.S. economy, analysts said. That's a tall order. ``The Europeans are counting on the U.S. to be the locomotive for the world economy, but at this point the U.S. economy is operating mainly on fumes,'' said Ed Yardeni, chief investment strategist for Prudential Securities in New York.

Black Blade: Tall Order Indeed!



The CoinGuy (11/12/02; 00:04:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 89379)
GratefulforGold "I just know that "I got mine" (physical PMs)"
That looks like a sure sign of intelligence to this Knight. Don't count yourself short, you're a head of 99% of the population, and the door to this theater is not a double wide.

My father always told me life is a learning process, never stop. So I always consider myself a student of something, keeps the ego in check.


The CoinGuy


DOWNUNDER (11/12/02; 00:01:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 89378)
THE AMERICAN EMPIRE - - - and REAL PATRIOTS !
When Aristotle wrote in glowing praise (89195) of the 3 part article at Asiatimes I went to the site & read the full box & dice.I too was NOT impressed but was unwilling to stir the pot -so to speak. A short time later MR BILL said it in spades with one word --- "POPPYCOCK" !

ROTFLMAO.The masters reply was savage & predictable-(89241)It was vintage Aristotle & MR BILL was accused of being an American Hater & a bigot-- only able to read as far as the first half of the first page etc.It was a crude belittling and unnecessary attack.

MR BILL aquitted himself more than adequately in his replies(89318--89344)and I thank him for the thought that went into those posts.

Thanks also to some other excellent posts this morning -on the same subject. Thanks for standing up on a difficult subject especially if you're a US citizen. Old Yeller-- Mikal-- R.Powell--Elwood--CavanMan -- RobotGuy--The Invisible Hand--Gold N Rule -et al.

It's NOT the American people that are being targeted & hated
BUT an out of control administration. You have to stand up &
say it otherwise THEY win! Just look at what they're doing on a daily basis to the financial markets.It's affecting the whole world.

The agenda of Tacitus is getting clearer. Like Ari you'll be banging the head against a brick wall to put a contrary point of view. Pity about that.




ViewYesterday's Discussion.


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