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ARCHIVED DISCUSSION FROM 11/12/2002 All times are U.S. Mountain Time (Yesterday's Discussion.) Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 23:44:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 89487) R Powell: What would entice investment money into gold ?(post 89470) Well Mr. Powell, nothing that WE can offer will entice investment money into gold. There is one thing that will, and that is not necessarily the prospect of profits.It is the prospect of "OK-ness". We all know: it is obscene to talk of gold among the CFO's of corporations. It is bad manners. It is not done. It is not "Politically correct".So, what these little sheep - self-important sheep - need is a SANCTION, they need an approval, and since so many of us have become slaves, they look to Caesar for approval before saying anything. (His Lordship asks: "What time is it?"A lackey replies: "Any time you say, Sire.")So what we would need, would be for ONE government to take a stand and declare that in his domains, gold is money. Phrase it any way you like - that has to be the substance of the message.When that is done, the show is over. The Islamics? Who is to say, maybe these people who are so detested by so many numbers of Americans, are the people who will stand up for basic human freedom, represented by gold in the hands of the people.This is a sort of "The Emperor is naked" statement. The consequences would be fatal to the world's fiat system.I am surprised that Saddam Hussein has not mobilized this weapon, more powerful by far than all other WMD; it would bring the USA to its knees. As Willie pointed out in his excellent essay (at 321gold) on "25 reasons why gold will rise" , the dollar is the strategic weak point in the US armor.And Von Klausewitz stated that in war, once must concentrate all forces on the one vital point where victory will be decisive. Where else but the monetary front, in our day?Sierra Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 23:22:06MT - usagold.com msg#: 89486) Roger the Shrubber: origin of the term "Blue Blood" The origin of the term "blue blooded" has nothing to do with silver, so far as I know.The way I heerd it, after the Moors were driven out of Spain, there was a need for Spaniards who had not intermarried with Moors to prove their "purity of blood".One of the tests was "blue blood"; by showing their wrists as white with blue veins, the Spanish gave evidence of no mixture with Moorish stock, which would have given them a darker skin through which the blue veins were not apparent.So I have heard tell.Sierra Pizz (11/12/02; 23:01:50MT - usagold.com msg#: 89485) Mikal Got way over half my stash in Au also.Just trying to do a little due diligence for the poor mans gold.Kind of hard for the 50 buck a month savings crowd to buy the golden stuff, and saving up for a few months to buy an ouce or two, when they can get 10 oz of Ag pretty quickly seems to make sense, at least to me, right now. Hate to see anyone who wants to get on the PM train miss it due preferance issues and a conflicting budget.More potential for the spike up right now than I have ever seen.--------------------------Can anyone else ever remember when stocks, bonds, gold, commodities and a host of other things are all sitting at critical technical levels as they appear to be right now?Lines are drawn and the bets are on the table, don't like to think I'm gamblin', but war is in the air, physically and financially.Just hope we've got a few winners left when the dust settles.Pizz mikal (11/12/02; 22:43:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 89484) @ElGordo You may be right about Saddam. But maybe the antidote story is disinformation. A Reuters story stating that "the NY Times cited a US government official" does not pass the smell test. ElGordo (11/12/02; 22:34:40MT - usagold.com msg#: 89483) Saddam is trapped @Cometose- Lets say Saddam has a chemical program andchemical weapons. If he lets the inspectors go anywhere theywant, whenever they want, they will find evidence.Can he now come out and say I'm sorry I lied. I had this stuffall along? Please forgive me and you are welcome to take allmy weapons?He will probably let the inspectors in but they will reportproblems right away. Saddam has a choice.1)Admit he has weapons and hand them over or,2)sooner or later fight a war to survive.Why else would he be trying to get huge dosages of anti-chemicalagents for his troops. He might be planning to use chemicals.Saddam can't come clean, he's got the weapons program in chemicals for sure. He knows they can find evidence.I see war almost unavoidable. mikal (11/12/02; 22:15:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 89482) @Pizz Ok, so Ag's gotta lotta upside. But I'm putting at least half my chips in where the masses AND the MASS are at. Who are they? First, the masses are the billions in Asia and the Middle East,as well as Europe and elsewhere with the old traditions plus purchasing power to buy gold for PRIVATE SAVINGS. The MASS on the other hand are the CB's, Hung Fat (no pun intended) and Dr. No steadily accumulating Au leased, sold, mined and otherwise distributed for many years. Why else would the Euro be quarterly marked to market, the market price of gold? Strong hands and deep pockets want it, get it, and will get more. So will Susie Chang, Bobbie Chandra, and Billie Chandelier. I agree Mexico, the US, etc. can utilize Ag innovatively and progressively, just as with Au. May all make hay while the sun is shining, making the most of a limited resource. Regards Roger The Shrubber (11/12/02; 21:50:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 89481) Cavan Man Greetings, I've been tending to my shrubberies and relocating;consequently, I have been without internet for over five weeks. USA Gold Forum withdraw is worse than spending the night at Castle Anthrax, I think. I read yesterday that JPM {"run away, run away!"} may have made a 180 on gold. That's really quite amazing. Does that mean they haven't retreated to the Castle of Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh ? As far as the health benefits of ingesting micro amounts of silver go, the origin of the term "blue blood" has to do with exactly that. The wealthy aristocracy could afford to eat with real silverware, and over time would accumulate enough silver to give their blood a blue tinge. It's no wonder that many of them were able to survive the diseases and plagues of the day. So give Centennial Precious Metals a call today, and then go to your local health food store. Silver, it's more than just food for thought. Have you hugged a shrubber today ? Roger steady (11/12/02; 21:44:46MT - usagold.com msg#: 89480) winter . ants / grasshoppers/ gold! http://www.umass.edu/aesop/ant/ with the harvest moon a few weeks behind us now and daylight becoming scarce its time to look back at our summer preperations> where u a grasshoper this summer hoping for lower gold prices? did u stock your cubbards up? are you an ant or a grasshoper?like the gold that was passed down to you and like the gold u are going to pass down ... fables amd myths survive the test of time like gold becuase they are valuable and have intrinsic values to them. take a min to review this time tested fable. substitue gold for corn if u want . the message is clear. prepare for the worst. hope for the best. live small, free gold ..open the mint! gold and silver honest money for honest people! Pizz (11/12/02; 21:32:42MT - usagold.com msg#: 89479) R Powell Thanks for you lease rate interpretation. Logical and makes sense.Glad you brought up the PM investment question, or the lack there of, question cause it gives me a belated reason to post my response to the "is buying gold now like buying at 35 bucks in the late sixties" with the guess I didn't have time to make cause I waited til the last minute.My basic answer is yes, because the fear investment premium for both gold and silver and the price appreciation will be similar, possibly compressed in time (more will happen quicker because of technology, news flows, etc., or it may cover the same time frames, 10 + years or so, with an upside commensurate with today's technology, the narrowness of the markets, and the scarcity of the physical to the tons of fiat (an internet style golden bubble ride for a thin market??? Wow!! and Possible)Now, here's where you and I tend to get a bit afoul with the gold only advocates when it comes to silver. But as I see it, one of the main differences between PM's now and in the sixties is that the investment money has had so many different ways to invest, and as brainwashed as the sheeple are, when this thing breaks, gold is going to be monitarily, flat out of reach for 95% or so of the public. The hot money is going to push it up hard and fast, right along with PM stocks.Even silver will be tough for the public to buy, but even at a 16 to one ratio, by the time 10 or 20 percent of the public finally reacts ( and some always will), economics 101 tells me silver is going to get the bulk of Joe Sixpacks limited fiat. 800 gold or 50 silver, or 1 share of GG with a couple hundred bucks in your pocket - what do you buy if you're finally scared??? That's a no-brainer in my book.And another thing that many are missing, with the advent of gold back currencies getting in the news, just what does anyone think South America and Mexico will use if it comes down to "a backing currencies with PM's to save our butts mentality" - my guess is silver.I just don't think we're going to get a nice smooth rise up to where the public is going to be able to come to their senses and have the oportunity to buy anything PM related anywhere near these lows. If I can't buy the Caddy, guess I go for the Escort cause I got to get out of Dodge.You've got company in the Lagoon and I'm probably a bit uglier (smile).Pizz Cometose (11/12/02; 21:31:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 89478) War in Iraq Friday we find out whether we have war or not....Based on Sadaam's answer, we will know whether this war was or was not going to be bullish for the stock market....Everything that the Arab states and opec have worked toward up until now will be undermined if Sadaam ( who it is said may be a madman ) acts the part of a loose cannon and begs on a war on his own soil.....I believe that all the Arab States are united and on Friday we will hear the united Islamic front speak ....to their best self interest. The threat of war will destablize everything their control of the flow of oil. It will remove their leverage. The U S is the great Satan....They will rather have the U N conducting inspections in Iraq than have The west dividing up IRAQI OIL... and undermining OPEC.and the influence OPEC has gained in their successful manipulation of the price of oil.Sadaam will bow to the U N , and the Stock Market will again plummet, with the war premium in oil and gold (temporarily).The Russians latest is quite interesting and brings more intrique to the table ..... Perhaps ,China will also decide to come to the party. I think the Russians already know : it's going to peace ....they're just playing along and making themselves heard...Of course , they may have decided they they want the oil for themselves; or they just want to help Iraq protect its interests. The Russian economy thrives in wartime...These little moves are how wars escalate into wars...I will be very much suprised if Sadaam decides to War with the US ....It will mean that he's ready to go down with the ship....which stance will no doubt bring with it some huge suprises....It will be something the stock markets welcome in the assumption of a US win and the winner takes the spoils (breaths new life into FEDWORLDDOMINATION plan)..bearish for gold and oil in the long run....Mad man or NOt ; If Sadaam (and the arab world) plays into the hands of the US in a theatre of war ...it will show an uncharachteristic loss of intelligence and strategy vaccum and disconnect from the recent history of well executed moves based on consensus and unity....inside OPEC... goldquest (11/12/02; 21:15:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 89477) Thrilling! To be a runner up in the contest! My heartfelt thanks to MK and the USAGOLD team! A special thanks to Sir Gandalf for piloting another smooth, fun contest! Thanks also to all of the folks that contribute to this forum. Your input is what makes this the best GOLD site on the net! mikal (11/12/02; 20:58:02MT - usagold.com msg#: 89476) @Downunder Pity the markets are rigged and manipulated, and now tapped...Und vee have Omeland Seecuritee tooo, Yah? Vee can hear your trades ven you call zee broker, Vee ar a deezgraze to zee Faderland. ElGordo (11/12/02; 20:46:16MT - usagold.com msg#: 89475) Saddam may be planning to use nerve gas NEW YORK (Reuters) - Iraq has ordered large amounts of a drug that can be used to counter the effects of nerve gas, The New York Times reported on Tuesday, citing Bush administration officials. The orders, which far surpassed amounts needed for normal hospital use, were mainly from suppliers in Turkey, which is being pressed to stop the sales and has indicated in talks with the State Department that it was willing to review the matter, the officials told the Times. "If the Iraqis were going to use nerve agents," the newspaper quoted one official as saying, "they would want to take steps to protect their own soldiers, if not their population. This is something that U.S. intelligence is mindful of and very concerned about." Iraq has ordered a million doses of the drug, atropine, and the 7-inch autoinjectors that inject it into a person's leg, the officials told the newspaper. One official also told the Times Iraq had also placed orders for another antidote for chemical weapons, obidoxime chloride. Atropine is commonly used in hospitals around the world to resuscitate patients who have had heart attacks. The bulk purchases of autoinjectors and atropine, however, have raised concerns among chemical weapons experts, intelligence analysts and senior White House officials, who argue that atropine to counter heart attacks is normally given intravenously and in much smaller doses, the newspaper said. _________@Golden Bear-Perhaps we will see more silver used formedicine and water purification. Golden Bear (11/12/02; 20:39:31MT - usagold.com msg#: 89474) ElGordo (msg#: 89459) "...This post is about new uses for silver in medicine..."Hi ElGordo,silver has been used as colloidal silver - a great antibacterial by alternative medicine practitioners for about 100 years.And the FDA has banned anyone from advertising its antibacterial qualities on behalf of the pharmaceutical companies.Thanks for the link. DOWNUNDER (11/12/02; 20:34:11MT - usagold.com msg#: 89472) ARE "THEY" SHORTING NEWMONT (NEM) ? http://cbs.marketwatch.com/news/story.asp?siteid=mktw&dist=mktwmore&guid=%7B31E6A5C7%2DF042%2D4632%2DAAB4%2D067E793F5225%7D It was interesting (dissapointing)to see NEM smashed down again today --It's been hammered now for some time & personally I don't think it's a coincidence.I bought on 22/3/02 & its now just over 8% lower! Below is an extract from Thom Calanda's Market Watch re the recent New Orleans Investment Conference.(See link above)---------------------------------------------------------SNIP:Unemployment will be a vicious problem," Russell said. "Before next year is out, we'll see another 20 percent drop in the dollar. China is at economic war with the West. I wouldn't be surprised if it backs (its currency) with gold."As for specific recommendations, he pointed to Newmont Mining (NEM: news, chart, profile), the world's largest gold producer, as the "bellwether" investment in troubled fiscal times. Russell said the 18 gold mining stocks he follows demonstrated strong accumulation this week as measured by advancing prices on rising volume-----------------------------------------------------------Seems to me the PTB are actively shorting selected Gold Stocks--- anyone else have thoughts on this? ElGordo (11/12/02; 20:31:38MT - usagold.com msg#: 89471) Bin Laden calls Bush "Pharaoh of the Century" http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,5480020%255E2,00.html AMERICAN officials believe the voice of Osama bin Laden is on a tape that threatens Australia and hails the Bali bombings. US officials say a preliminary analysis of the tape, which was broadcast by Al-Jazeera TV, had found it to be genuine."It's him," two senior officials from different agencies told NBC News as the Central Intelligence Agency continued to analyse the recording.A third official, who also spoke to NBC News on condition of anonymity, said: "We believe it could well be him and there is no apparent reason to suggest that it's not him."If formally confirmed as bin Laden's voice, the tape would be the first indication since the beginning of the year that the leader of the al-Qaeda terrorist network, blamed for the September 11 attacks, is still alive. In the tape, the speaker hailed the Bali bombing, which occurred one month ago, and threatened the United States and its allies, including Australia.He lashed out at US President George W. Bush, calling him the "pharaoh of the century," and at his key allies, whom he called "murderers." "As you assassinate, so will you be (assassinated), and as you bomb so will you likewise be," the tape said, against the background of a photograph of the Al-Qaeda terror network's leader, in turban and khaki jacket, a rifle at his side. In the message to "the peoples of countries allied to the United States," he warned them against the "alliance between their governments and the United States to attack us in Afghanistan." He cited "Britain, France, Italy, Canada, Germany and Australia.""What has happened since the conquests of New York and Washington up until now - like the operations on Germans in Tunisia, the explosion of the French tanker in Yemen, on the French in Karachi, the operations against the (US) Marines in Failaka (Kuwait), on Australians and Britons in the explosions in Bali, as well as the recent hostage-taking in Moscow and other operations here and there - were nothing but the response of Muslims eager to defend their religion and respond to the order of God and their Prophet. R Powell (11/12/02; 20:15:05MT - usagold.com msg#: 89470) Sierra (89460) Yes, sir, and so nicely said! "What trouble thinking is" So many expend so much thought energy to avoid having to think or does the idea of gold elude them entirely? Perhaps we should set aside the search for a possible trigger for POG and bluntly ask with all possible conniving, "What would entice (persuade) the investment money of the world into gold and silver?" Please note that in keeping with the total lack of ethics implicit in this nefarious endeavor, any and all suggestions need not reflect any truth. Hard to do? Not at all. Have we learned nothing from the stock promoters, brokers and shysters of this last decade? Any takers? Rich R Powell (11/12/02; 19:57:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89469) Pizz Lease rates I too saw the silver lease rates up at Kitco but, having been fooled more than once by Bart's barometers, I double checked at the desk. No confirmation. As to last January when there was a confirmed and lengthy spike in silver rates, it was reported as a physical shortage in the London markets. I was told by a trader at Metalor than 12 million ounces from "private" sources were found and delivered to ease the situation but the point is, I believe, that there was a legitimate shortage (as opposed to a paper squeeze). GFMS has lowered this year's (2002) estimated deficit from 120 million to only 50 million ounces. I had questioned their original estimate as it was given with the assumption that the cheerleaders of economic recovery were going to be proven correct. But, I also don't think GFMS has considered less silver by-product production caused by this same economic slowdown, especially much lower silver supply by way of copper mining cutbacks. I'll stick with my 80 million ounce deficit guess for 2002. So, the deficit continues and we wait for some event to implement price rationing. Silver does not trade on supply and demand considerations YET but she will be forced to eventually. Supply and demand forces are inherently stronger (imho) than technical analysis. I think silver lease rate hikes are caused by real physical shortages whereas there is still enough physical gold being filtered into physical demand so that gold lease rate spikes have proven, in the past, to be temporary. I do NOT expect this to be so in the future. Rumors of physical shortages have been more common recently with both metals. I'm still as puzzled as many are by the lack of speculative investment in both metals. These are not large markets so a little interest (speculative money) will go a long way. I sense stronger support on the downturns for gold than silver but, again, see silver trading only on technicals. This fact has created the tremendous opportunity. The fundamentals and potential leveraged gains keep me leaning toward silver but both should go. Indeed, my guess is than almost all commodity prices will appreciate due to the past monetary policies of that much talked about world reserve currency but I remember your warnings of potential liquidity shortages. But again, these markets are so small compared to stocks or bonds, so, so little is needed, no? Eventually we win, as long as we can stay solvent longer than the prices stay irrational. But, market prices reflect the total consensus opinion of all market players, not any "true value" however measured. This is why Livermore said that "markets are never wrong, opinions are." This fact is a good reason why physical is the surest bet but, like yourself, along with physical, I have *investments* in paper. I'm still looking for the fly in the ointment in the silver outlook and still enjoying ever minute of watching, learning and anticipating. Not to downplay any of the implications of it's outcome (life and liberty itself) but...What a spectacular game it is !! BTW, I missed a silver coin by one dime. Perhaps I should have tried for the gold?? Rich makcumka (11/12/02; 19:46:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89468) @ Cavan Man Love that movie.If you haven't already, go get a DVD. Hillarious. You can watch it in Lego, Japanese, and in english with English subtitles.If I could only figure out the air speed velocity of an African swallow... Waverider (11/12/02; 19:34:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89467) Congratulations ...to all the lucky winners who won today - Skydog, Cytek, Goldenpeace, Goldquest and TimeForGold. A THANK YOU to MK for hosting the competition and for your continued generosity, and a special THANK YOU to our Wizard - Sir Gandalf for his humor, astuteness to contest entries at all hours of the day and night, and for making this contest SOOOOoooo much fun! Keep well Good Wizard and feel free to give Spike a whiff of Eau de Feline once in awhile - nice results! Cheers to All,WaveriderBTW - where are Canuck, YGM, Uponroof, and Siochaina - hope and trust you're all well. Cavan Man (11/12/02; 19:21:56MT - usagold.com msg#: 89466) makcumka "It's not a very pretty name is it?"Where's Roger the Shrubber when you need him? a nation of one (11/12/02; 19:00:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 89465) eye wrack http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2002/11/10/MN190150.DTL I think the linked-to article may be significant for the following reasons.No matter what the ultimate desire of such an action may be, the decision to remove Iraq's present head of state, as a first step in achieving it, is a strategy. The choice of using military force in doing so is a tactic. How many men to deploy, how to get them there, and which supplies to provide them are all matters of logistics. Usually, strategies are decided at the national level, by the effective head of state, whether a man, or a group of men. Tactics are chosen based on variables such as terrain, the situation, the enemy's strength, one's own capabilities, and so on. Whenever experienced professional warriors are in the positions necessary to enable them to determine what tactics shall be made use of, tactics tend to become agreed upon rather early. Logistics involve unique realities which knowledgeable men solve in more or less imaginative ways, kind of like creatively solving a puzzle. When the choice of tactics is determined by those who are not experts, those who know which tactics should be chosen, if confident, assert their disagreement, typically recommending a smarter choice. Because of this, whenever a military action is going to be taken, if there is significant dispute -among the men who are going to general the war- over the best way to win it, that is sometimes the first major indication that the tactic chosen is not the best one possible. Where a very poor tactic has been decided on, dispute is characteristically strong and widespread. Serious military defeats, prolonged, and unsuccessful campaigns tend to fit that criteria. There have been exceptions, certainly. But luck should never be relied on in any military battle. And however clear it might appear, superior strength is not a garuantee of victory. Never, under any circumstance, should the population -or the military- of an invaded nation be relied upon to rise up and overthrow their leader. Such hope is a delusion characteristic of amateurs. Soldiers unseasoned by practiced mortal combat are seldom a match against desparate men fighting for their lives on ground which they themselves will lose if they fail. It may be that the U.S.'s war against Iraq will provide an exception to these admonitions. Increasingly, it looks like we are going to find out. makcumka (11/12/02; 18:51:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89464) @ Cavan Man I, too, prefer the Castle of Anthrax :) Cavan Man (11/12/02; 18:37:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89463) Mr Gresham Or, could it be as in Monty Python's "The Holy Grail"; ...."on second thought, let's not go to Camelot"? Mr Gresham (11/12/02; 18:17:17MT - usagold.com msg#: 89462) Camelot In this bright moment, it is time once more to think about harmony among the fine Knights and Ladies at ALL of the Castles of the Golden Realm.As the founder of the first Table Round believed, it is Right that makes Might, and not the reverse. May we bring this Shining idea to all the lands our shared Golden Philosophy touches upon.If gold is to bring peace, rather than war, let it begin here. Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 18:10:41MT - usagold.com msg#: 89461) Sierra Madre --- Re: Mr. John Patric !! Sir Dr. Zhisheng was the one that told us about his learning from Mr. John Patric ! Later in life Sir Dr. Zhisheng ALSO had the opportunty to travel in that part of the WORLD and speak with Chinese people.I too have the book and enjoyed it also !==AND --Thanks again Sir Dr. Zhisheng for remembering Mr. John Patric --- and Nie Hao Ma !<;-) Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 17:57:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89460) The day is done...time to reflect, again The notion that the present indomitable strength of gold is somehow connected with the opening of the Shanghai Gold Exchange, is intriguing. Could it be....?*******A thought: there must be literally thousands of financial executives (CFO's) in the corporations of the world, handling ten, twenty, fifty, a hundred million dollars or more in available corporate cash, each one of them.But to not one of them does it occur, to place 5, 10, 20 or 50% of their cash in gold. "No sir, that is UNTHINKABLE.Gold is a volatile commodity." OK, mister, you know what you are doing!And so the game goes on and on, from stocks, into bonds, from bonds, into stocks, from stocks, into euro bonds or euro stocks, etc. etc. Paper, paper, paper.The numbers (money is only numbers) will get larger and larger, more and more zeros. We already talk of trillions. In a few years we will be in quadrillions.I guess as long as there is not a violent SHOCK, this game has a long ways to play yet. "mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable..." Businesses will be going through the ham slicer, one thin slice at a time.If gold goes to "da moon", as I think it will, the sourgrapes financial officers will only say, "Well, it was a lucky speculation in a commodity", and look the other way.Not one of them will reflect that if they had thought a bit - (what trouble thinking is!!) - they could have done their corporations an enormous favor. Who is going waste time thinking of his own stupidity?Sierra ElGordo (11/12/02; 17:56:20MT - usagold.com msg#: 89459) Silver used to clean water and kill bacteria http://www.financialsense.com/disc1/00000100.htm NASA selected a silver system to purify water for our space shuttle program. Most of the world's airlines use silver water filters to purify their airline's water systems. The city of Milwaukee (where several years ago 400,000 people became ill, where 100 died after drinking contaminated water from their municipal system) now uses silver on its water filters to kill bacteria. The Milwaukee strain of Cryptosporidium can actually live on Clorox. Those who believed that a plague could not develop in this century have already seen the beginning of one with drug-resistant strains of bacteria that can be transmitted by casual contact in movie theaters, hospitals and shopping centers. The bio-chemical bacteria and yeast programs being developed by Iraq could probably be killed by the new silver solution.__________I do not recommend clifton mining.This post is about new uses for silver in medicine. sector (11/12/02; 17:55:45MT - usagold.com msg#: 89458) @Belgian: Yet More on the DIVG http://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h10/update/ It isn't rocket science but the DIVG may tell us a bit more about the cabal's stress level.The PM $USD gold price divided by the Major Currency Dollar Index [Found at the bottom of the above link].Today's calculation = $321.75 ÷ 99.07 = 3.247I would like to see the Dollar index fall into the .97s as it did in July. Until that happens the DIVG is being driven by a rising gold price more than a falling dollar.As for secrets, the more folks that appreciate the gold market manipulation and act to smash the cabal by purchasing gold in any form, the sooner we all can book even more profits.+++++++++++++++++Caven Man , looked forward to meeting you...too bad. Anyway, the ball doesn't carry so far on Bermuda fairways...zip for roll.I am completely hooked on Hogan. Took up his "Cupped wrist", closed stance and have never hit the ball so far. The first pass was all it required. Pizz (11/12/02; 17:48:53MT - usagold.com msg#: 89457) Rich Yes, Rich, the cheap stuff hangin right in there.I have to run, it's quittin time on the West coast and I have to go get my new ears adjusted.Check out the silver lease rates next door. We either have a glitch (quite possible) or we're gettin another lease rate spike in silver (up over 1% across the board???). I'm still trying to figure out why when silver lease rates go nuts, silver rallies, and when the gold lease rates go up, the gold seems to be used to sell the price down.Have you any ideas?Pizz Max Rabbitz (11/12/02; 17:47:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 89456) Dearest Wizard Gandalph What have you been feeding spot? I had him nailed down perfectly and then.......Congratulations to the winners. Pizz (11/12/02; 17:42:04MT - usagold.com msg#: 89455) (No Subject) Cavan Man: Not to interject in a private golf statement, but a 5 WOOD seems about right. Now we'll have to see if gold has John Daly behind the golden number one wood - 325 into some major wind. . . . but then again we could be on a par 5, 600 yarder, and already lying 320 or so and hitting a three wood???? (I like that senario better)Sierra: the John Patric post was not mine, but it was made by someone else regarding a post I made and I just happen to be from the same area and rough time frame here in the northwest. I still have to get the book and read it myself, time permitting. But thanks for the thought. I seem to think that it might have been Gandalf that brought him up originally.Pizz R Powell (11/12/02; 17:38:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89454) Gandalf // Pizz // Prize givers Gandalf (89353), "BTW, these RULES are not yet setforth in CONCRETE (sorry, Rich for the simile)" Quite alright, Gandalf the White, Master of Spike and Mover of gold. I've often refered to concrete as "gray gold" since my association with it has paid the household bills long enough to raise two kids. The older one moved out last Sunday for the second time. The younger is also out on his own. I'm trying to convince the misses that now is the time to sell this 3 bedroom house and buy a one bedroom one. Poured a sidewalk today and, at the owners request placed a large gold coin in it at the appropriate time. No, not real, golden colored. But, the allure of gold is not dead. Pizz, (89437) "Number 2, disaster insurance (silver- my own opinion not shared by many) doing nicely also." Yes, quite nicely of late after bottoming around 428-430. I'm still impressed that the so-called small speculator class in the COT held tightly onto their long positions throughout that approximately 80 cent freefall before that recent bottom. I asked David Morgan "Who are those guys?". His answer- the public! As to how numerous we are (?), perhaps we are not as few as it sometimes appears. Those small speculators were net long over 20,000 contracts as of last Friday and the total of Silver Eagle sales for August was 1.745 million- a record month. I would guess that the big specs have covered their shorts and are now adding longs. We'll see how easily (pricewise) the Commercials accommodate this buying although imho it's all still technical trading. I often run into the belief that a large price move can not happen simply because it has not yet happened. Perhaps if we cry "WOLF" enough times, you and I may be the only longs left! Here's hoping we live long enough to see it through. Congrats to all the winners and to all who made it happen. Thanks... Rich ElGordo (11/12/02; 17:35:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89453) Colloidal Silver (solution) kills super bacteria The TestingIn the test work for the EPA hospital approval, the ASAP Solution® had to kill hundreds of thousands of some of the deadliest types of bacteria found in the United States within minutes, and it proved able to do so. There were approximately 1600 individual bacterial tests in just one series alone. American Biotech's product was able to pass all the tests.The Hospital ApprovalAmerican Biotech Labs expects to get the full hospital disinfectant approval within the next 15-45 days. The approval will open the door to sell the highly effective, yet non-toxic disinfectant to thousands of hospitals, clinics, rest homes, and other healthcare facilities world wide. Management expects sales of the new disinfectant to possibly begin as soon as January 2003. Said Keith Moeller, V.P., "This will be a very important product for the market. Because this product is non-toxic and yet highly effective at killing even the MRSA super bacteria, we expect sales to boom world wide. Unlike other disinfectants, this product can be used in and around patients to kill bacteria with no adverse effect. It is so safe that it could be sprayed right on the skin or even consumed orally with no adverse consequences."Malaria Testing/Drug ApprovalA new human trial specifically testing ASAP's effectiveness on malaria is under way in Ghana, West Africa. In the first two tests, 19 people who had been diagnosed with malaria were treated with the ASAP Solution. All 19 people (mostly children) were reported by the doctors as being fully recovered within just seven days. The latest malaria tests should be completed within the next 60 days.With no reported failures, the human tests have gone so well that the official Food and Drug Board of Ghana has already approved the ASAP Solution® for drug registration. Recent West African trials also tested the product as a treatment for fungal skin infections, vaginal infections, urinary tract infections, tonsilitis, pharingitis, some sexually transmitted diseases, conjunctivitis, upper respiratory tract infections, nasal and sinus problems, etc. In almost every human case tested so far, full recovery was reached in just 1-7 days.---------------------------The company received purchase orders totaling over 32,000 bottles of product in just the last week. Sales have doubled from last year and we are expecting the heavy growth to continue especially with the company's new approval and listing with the US Senate committee for Homeland Defense. silvercollector (11/12/02; 17:26:26MT - usagold.com msg#: 89452) Blade Black There were a few posts a week or two ago about Goldcorp's physical acquistion attempt. There was a post (or perhaps an essay over at G-E) that reasoned that Goldcorp's experiment was a failure. Some sort of logic that explains that the BB's have complete control. Did you see that article/post and can you comment on the logic?Thanks in advance. Cavan Man (11/12/02; 17:13:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 89451) @sector Don't give away too many secrets! Saw you speak in N.O. and decided against saying hello so as to preserve mutual anonymity (did I spell that right?). 175 into the wind for a #5 is a little light where I come from. Though, I can't hit it like a "laser". Be well...CMPS: Busy re-inventing my game with Hogan's timeless classic. Belgian (11/12/02; 17:06:57MT - usagold.com msg#: 89450) @ Sector Thanks and looking forward to your publication.Can you give the formula you are using ?(POG : US$-index = DIVG ?) : 324,5 $ : 104,66 = 3,10.What is rising/declining DIVG telling us ? Black Blade (11/12/02; 16:24:23MT - usagold.com msg#: 89449) Re: Cobra(too) The physical supply is tight. You may recall that recently Goldcorp tested the market when they asked a brokerage if they would be able to accumulate 20 million ounces for delivery in short order. They were told that it would take only a couple of day. So they decided to take delivery of 1.2 million ounces and it took a couple of weeks at a higher than normal premium. That speaks volumes - and yet the tripe from some so-called analysts continues to be that there is no problem with supply. If the word got out or if the shift toward physical accumulation strengthens we would see a wild break out that would squeeze the most ardent (desperate?) institutional shorts. The future looks bright for that and many more reasons.BTW, good to see you back. Cheers!- Black Blade MK (11/12/02; 16:09:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89448) Contest. . . I do not want to neglect thanking all of the entrants for participating in our Contest. We have these little essay attachments so that the thousands of people who read this page can get a sense of what other people are thinking on various subjects, and I can't tell you how much your words of wisdom mean to those readers. I am proud of our posters here and proud of the positive effect they have on so many. It's good for all of us to know that there are others like us out there. For so many years, many of us felt isolated in our point of view and understandings. This site brought all that to a conclusion and we will continue to keep that wolf at bay at least for as long as we are able to keep the doors to this castle open, and the lights burning in this Great Hall. For that we ask your continued support of our brokerage operations. It is your purchase of gold from USAGOLD ~ Centennial Precious Metals that nourishes these pages. When you look back at the last few years these doors have been open (by visiting the archives), I think you will find that much of what has happened in the economy has been predicted right here and discussed long before it became main menu with the standard media. Many thanks to my wizardrous friend, Gandalf the White, for monitoring the Contests. Onward, my fellow goldmeisters. Sierra Madre (11/12/02; 16:08:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89447) PIzz, now that you're around.... I want to tell you I got ahold of a copy of John Patric's"A Yankee Hobo in the Orient" - original dust jacket in good shape, and signed by the author.Makes excellent reading. Men of those days were a different breed. Ah well, hard times will bring the type to the fore once again. J.P. was one of a kind, an exemplar of his race and time and country. Great reading, about the hero of Frying Pan Creek. Thanks for the tip regarding the author and his book.SaludosSierra CoBra(too) (11/12/02; 15:59:55MT - usagold.com msg#: 89446) Late Gold Spike Today - - Is another reminder that the trading pattern of the yellow metal has radically changed. Looks like the ready (and real) supply is drying up as prime lenders are starting to get worried of getting it back in kind, or as it may well be, at all - see JPM-C. Jim Sinclair is daring to wager - that come next Monday - the 330 sound barrier will be history - His word in POG's ear!Cheers - cb(2) Black Blade (11/12/02; 15:57:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 89445) Re: mikal Indeed, foreign natural resource professionals are already working in the US and if you go to any US university in many graduate programs the majority of students are foreigners. It appears that US students are simply not inclined to pursue careers in the sciences, especially in physical sciences. Most that I have seen were Chinese, Indian, Pakistani, and Middle Eastern. In short, they're already here. Many if not most remain after graduation to work in the US on special work visas due to the lack of US professionals. What security concerns that may also involve is anyones guess. However, I have several foreign friends who I worked with in the biz.- Black Blade TownCrier (11/12/02; 15:43:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89444) "That raggedy wizard!" mutters Townie from the rack. Well, after all the trouble to drag it out and dust it off, you didn't think they were just going to put it away completely unused, did you?R. (remarkably taller now)----PS. Another reminder to the winners, please verify your correct shipping addresses with an email to marie@usagold.com Saxulum^ (11/12/02; 15:41:58MT - usagold.com msg#: 89443) Russia Seeks Regime Change To Prevent Iraq War http://www.stratfor.com Don't know if this was posted before but it gives some more insight in the "Marionette Theater"...F R E E I N T E L L I G E N C E B R I E F I N G:Russia Seeks Regime Change To Prevent Iraq WarInformed Russian sources told Stratfor on Nov. 7 that Russian intelligence services are working in tandem with pro-Russian Iraqi generals to oust Iraqi President Saddam Hussein, hoping to stave off a U.S. war. Moscow seeks to stage a coup before the end of November, in time to prevent a U.S. attack. mikal (11/12/02; 15:38:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 89442) @BlackBlade You said: "We should be looking at a reduction in newly mined minerals for several years that will pressure prices higher." I agree. Are the universities in highly populated and other foreign countries (India, China, Russia, etc.) producing a surplus of geologists, mining engineers and specialists? When TSHTF it seems some foreign candidates with/without experience could be persuaded to relocate? Starting incomes could be VERY attractive at that time and MANY are fluent in English. Henri (11/12/02; 15:31:00MT - usagold.com msg#: 89441) Black Blade Msg 89388 Almost hit a Moose with my car this morning!!! Sheesh they're big. If you can see the whites of moose eyes in your headlights as she wheels around...you're entirely TOO close. Guided (11/12/02; 15:29:27MT - usagold.com msg#: 89440) Outgoing SEC chief Looks like he's ready to turn around and run. Don't blame him. Guided (11/12/02; 15:24:12MT - usagold.com msg#: 89439) New SEC director lasted 18 days http://www.msnbc.com/news/834103.asp?vts=111220021350 And, I wouldn't bet on Mr. Bin Laden being dead.These people are very clever. They proved that. Time For GOLD (11/12/02; 15:20:44MT - usagold.com msg#: 89438) Runner Up Silver Eagle Coin Prize Thank you USA Gold and all the staff who made the the fun contest possible and for the generous prizes! But more importantly, thank you for providing this forum where so many knowledgeable participants congregate to share their knowledge! TIME FOR GOLD!!! Pizz (11/12/02; 15:15:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89437) Just What Picture are the Markets Painting Number 1 disaster insurance (gold) strong even with the shorts throwing in their last amunition.Number 2 disaster insurance (silver - my own opinion not shared by as many) doing nicely also.Stock markets failing to break back up thru the neckline of the most massive head and shoulders formation in history even with about everthing the FED and PPT can throw at it.The dollar ready to break thru to new lows with the bond markets treading water with probable foreign capital leaving our shores on the sell side and offsetting buying by war flight capital.North Korea making waves and Al Queda (MK, I agree with you that Bin Laden is probably dead) doing the same.Paladium down, CRB down, and oil not moving up even when we are on the brink of ME war?---------------------------------The picture I'm starting to see come to light is that the markets are set up for a MASSIVE drop in aggrigate demand from the markets, mainly in the US. What ever happens, it appears that we may be discounting the ramifications of a "bunker" mentality with the posibilty of TSHTF.--------------------------------Congrats to the winners, and sorry I was unable to find the time for my planned Monday entry (would not have been close anyway). We are having major personnel cutbacks, and I handle each one face to face rather than issuing pink slips -- rips me up inside to do it that way, but if I were to lose my job thru no fault of my own, I'd want my superiors to give me the reasons face to face, and so I do, as best I can.War or not, we're still not out of the woods economically by a long, long shot.Pizz makcumka (11/12/02; 15:14:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 89436) Contest Congratulations to all the winners.That includes everyone on this forum in posession of physical, as the spot goes up, we all win!Tickled pink as to what the future holds.Gandalf The Wizard, you have any ideas? sector (11/12/02; 15:06:43MT - usagold.com msg#: 89435) More on the DIVG Dollar index Value of Gold This metric contains the London PM [$USD] Fix, the Major Currecy Dollar Index, and is thus related to defended JPM gold derivatives denominated in $USD.By using the Major Currency DI published daily we get an end-of-day DIVG snapshot minus the COMEX close that encompasses the industrialized nations [Who possess gold in central bank quantity].There have been four excursions over 3.25 DIVG since the WA, three since July 2002. Today we have the third day of the fourth excursion in the danger zone above 3.25. In July 2002 the DIVG spent five days above 3.25 before falling back.Friday with a follow through aboue 3.25 tells the tale.Date______Euro___Yen____PM ____DI____DIVG8-Nov-02__1.0139_119.72__321.70_98.77__3.25712-Nov-02_1.0105_119.57__321.75_99.07__3.248I am using this metric as a cabal stress level indicator. goldenpeace (11/12/02; 14:56:28MT - usagold.com msg#: 89434) Great Gratitude for this Forum... In these days of growing "investment" insanity, it is truly a boon to have a refuge where the shared virtues of real value are practiced.Great Blessings and Thanks to our host MK for all his endeavors to hold that space so consciously.And not least, thanks to him , as well, for his great generosity in awarding multiple prizes to the lucky price guessers in his latest contest.May all beings be present with whatever arises.May all beings be patient with whatever arises.May all beings be peaceful with whatever arises.BowinggoldenpeaceP.S. Go Gold! The Truth will out! TownCrier (11/12/02; 14:37:52MT - usagold.com msg#: 89433) Gold rising nicely in light of, or even in spite of, several factors http://www.forbes.com/markets/newswire/2002/11/12/rtr792057.html NEW YORK, Nov 12 (Reuters) - COMEX gold rose to its highest in almost six weeks Tuesday after Iraq's parliament rejected the U.N. disarmament plan, raising prospects that Baghdad would balk at inspections and invite a U.S.-led war."Iraq has a little bit to do with it, but it's probably more technical," said James Pogoda, vice president of precious metals at Mitsubishi International Corp, noting that oil prices moved up only slightly.Gold had to compete for interest with the stock market, where the Dow was up 105 points in afternoon trade, snapping a three-day losing streak."There has been decent, big volume buying in here, so I think you have some funds accumulating positions," said one COMEX gold broker. "On the other hand, the dollar has not gone negative all day, which is not bullish for us and the Dow is widening its rally."--------(article at url)----------Meanwhile, underpinning gold's special asset role among the precious metals, as gold continues to rise palladium has fallen to 3-1/2 year lows on sharp declines in industrial/fabrication demand.Another article reports the following."The outlook for palladium remains grim as consumers destock and producers stockpile unsold metal," wrote UBS Warburg in November's monthly commodities report. "We forecast that palladium will trade lower in 2003 and 2004 due to chronic oversupply in the market."+Ironically, palladium once suffered the exact opposite problem. In January 2001 it hit record highs around $1,100 an ounce as industrial users frantically stockpiled...+"I'm just hearing it's coming out of inventories. And the global economy isn't what I would call 'robust,'" said Leonard Kaplan, president of Prospector Asset Management. "With car sales projected lower and with other catalytic-converter types-of-things possible now, why do they need it?," he asked.Bottom line: even though palladium is considered a precious metal, it isn't gold. The lesson here seems to be that if it is not king of the financial hill (and gold is just that), there is little desire to hold it beyond fabrication needs. Casual comparison to palladium's wild swings in the past few years shows how gold has kept its legs through thick AND thin. Call Centennial today.R. Boilermaker (11/12/02; 14:37:01MT - usagold.com msg#: 89432) Cogratulations to the winners Excellent last minute market maneuvers makes winners of the high side bettors. Congratulations to:Skydog, Cytek, goldenpeace, goldquest and Time For GOLD And my hat's off to Gandalf, the wizard who makes strange and wonderful things happen, for his diligent and good natured contest supervision. Boilermaker Black Blade (11/12/02; 14:36:34MT - usagold.com msg#: 89431) Re: mikal You may also be surprised how many displaced geologists and other mining professionals are now working for the environmental industry. Any port in a storm. Many of my friends have found work in the government agencies such as the Bureau of Land Management, Forest Service, various states Department of Environmental Quality, etc. Many of these people have several years of experience in exploration and mining and they are likely lost to the mining industry for good. Many others are working for private environmental industry companies. Some have left for work in petroleum and others in unrelated careers. Both the mining and petroleum industries will have a difficult time as the universities are not teaching the skills required for these natural resource industries (possibly a shift toward political correctness). As older professionals retire there are fewer younger people to replace them or to be mentored in the workforce. Should there be a resurgence in the natural resource industry many companies will find themselves in a bind. It is also becoming more difficult for these companies as environmental regulations become ever more complicated and restrictive. This along with the required studies and long lead times for project development, we should be looking at a reduction in newly mined minerals for several years that will pressure prices higher.- Black BladeAlso, congrats to the price guess winners! Gimli_ (11/12/02; 14:32:54MT - usagold.com msg#: 89430) Stinkin' Gandalf!! I was looking real good @ $$$ 322.6 $$$ 'til he spike it!! Congrats to the lucky, err I mean skillful winners! :-)) MK (11/12/02; 14:29:08MT - usagold.com msg#: 89429) One Man's Opinion. . . . If that tape is Bin Laden he's speaking from the grave. If he were alive, they would have trotted him out a long time ago. This doesn't mean that Al Qaeda won't be attempting the attrocities they threaten, or desist from trading (terrorizing) on bin Laden's name.Congrats to the winners. Some wizardry involved. . . . .methinks. . . .Have you noticed that gold rises whenever we have these contests. Why would that be, my wizardrous friend? Please, we would like to know if there'smore to this than mere coincidence. . . . . . . . . Gandalf the White (11/12/02; 14:09:30MT - usagold.com msg#: 89427) TA TA TAAAA, TA TA TAAAA, TA TA TAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!! The Dec '02 Contract POG Settlement Guessing CONTEST !! The Clerk announces, "The Master of the Castle, SIR MK, has reviewed the OFFICIAL list of prognostications in the December ‘02 Gold Price Settlement CONTEST, and is pleased to be here to announce the WINNERS of GOLD and the "Runners-up" that shall receive the SILVER !!!!"(The Town Crier who is standing next to Gandalf, turns to Gandalf and asks, "Did the Clerk say ‘WINNERS’ of GOLD?")(Gandalf, looking like a cat that had a canary in his mouth, muttered, "I do believe that he certainly did, as I bet that it was all my fault !)(T.C. after looking around at the other activity, then turns to Gandalf and asks, "Why are they preparing the RACK ?")(Gandalf says, "OOPS !" and with a tap of his staff, "DISAPPEARS" in a "poof" of white smoke !) <;-) SIR MK then announces...."The COMEX action today was unusual and clearly showed signs of "MANIPULATION" !" "I understand that there are rumors that perhaps a Wizard was casting spells after the HIGH NOON time in NY, AND that near the end of the trading session, he let loose the dog SPIKE !" "The December ‘02 Gold Contract (GC2Z) COMEX action today shows a SETTLEMENT price of $324.7 ! That is an increase of $3.1 above the NY close yesterday! The High of today's COMEX session was $325.0 and the low $321.5 !!""After review of the OFFICAL entries listings, I am pleased to announce that, ... One GOLDEN German 20 Mark coin, containing 0.2304 ounces of GOLD, is awarded to EACH of Sir Skydog, Sir Goldenpeace, and Sir Cytek!!!" "Also, TWO "Runners-up" are each awarded an one ounce U.S. SILVER EAGLE. These "Runners-up" are Sir Goldquest and Sir Time For GOLD !!""Let's hear it for these winners !" Hip, Hip, Hooray !!!He then turns to the Head of the Security Guards, and asks, "Where is that Ole Wizard Gandalf ?", "I saw him here a few minutes ago."===Will each of these lucky CONTESTANTS please provide their REAL name and "snailmail" address via email to Marie at USAGOLD, so that the PRIZES may be mailed. Please use this email address: marie@usagold.com=== < snip from the OFFICIAL entry listings >$$$$ 324.9 $$$$ goldquest (11/11/02; 10:23:52MT - msg#: 89293$$$$ 324.8 $$$$ goldenpeace (11/8/02; 08:59:57MT - msg#: 89063--$$$$ 324.7 ****for Sir Skydog as it is tough to keep a Skydog "down" !<;-)--$$$$ 324.6 $$$$ Cytek (11/04/02; 21:48:36MT - msg#: 88774$$$$ 324.5 $$$$ Time For GOLD (11/11/02; 11:45:16MT - msg#: 89305=== USAGOLD - Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/12/02; 13:52:09MT - usagold.com msg#: 89426) Give the gift that keeps on giving... http://www.usagold.com/jewelry/goldjewelry.html Let Marie be your shopping assistant this year, to keep you out of crowed malls and away from sales tax and jewelry store markups. USAGOLD / Centennial Precious Metals, Inc. (11/12/02; 13:46:59MT - usagold.com msg#: 89425) We've brokered millions ($) into gold, and we offer levels of service right for anyone... http://www.usagold.com/ProductsPage.html
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